Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tv echo]

Full SA quote from Motor City Comic Con 2018 (video just posted in Spoilers/S7 thread)...

--  When fan commented that SA appeared to be growing a beard and asked if Oliver will have a goatee in S7, SA: "Just because you've been polite, and just because everyone has been so nice to me today, I can break some news for you and let you know that, in Season 7, I am going to debut the goatee... I can't promise that it'll be forever. I can definitely promise that I'm not going to wear the stupid hat. Okay? But we've actually been thinking a lot, you know, assuming that - assuming that Oliver gets out of prison - thinking a lot, uh, if he suits back up as the Green Arrow, what does that costume look like? Because there's no more secret identity. The cat is out of the bag. Not that it was that secret before. But, um, we will see. Yeah, we're gonna debut the goatee. And, um, we're also meeting a new character that, when I heard about it, I got goosebumps, I was so excited."

Edited May 20, 2018 by tv echo

[JenMD]

3 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

Don’t prisons or judges usually put people like GA in solitary to keep them away from all the prisoners who he put there?

If he's in a supermax unit, he'll be in solitary up to 23 hours a day, usually, with minimal contact with anyone.  They should have just left it at prison.  As usual, the writers went for maximum drama with minimal research.  So conjugal visits wouldn't surprise me, since they're just making it all up, as they always do.

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Full SA quote from Motor City Comic Con 2018 (video just posted in Spoilers/S7 thread)...

--  When fan commented that SA appeared to be growing a beard and asked if Oliver will have a goatee in S7, SA: "Just because you've been polite, and just because everyone has been so nice to me today, I can break some news for you and let you know that, in Season 7, I am going to debut the goatee... I can't promise that it'll be forever. I can definitely promise that I'm not going to wear the stupid hat. Okay? But we've actually been thinking a lot, you know, assuming that - assuming that Oliver gets out of prison - thinking a lot, uh, if he suits back up as the Green Arrow, what does that costume look like? Because there's no more secret identity. The cat is out of the bag. Not that it was that secret before. But, um, we will see. Yeah, we're gonna debut the goatee. And, um, we're also meeting a new character that, when I heard about it, I got goosebumps, I was so excited."

Confirmed. Felicity shaves it off in the premiere. 

[bijoux]

For a fun twist, Oliver is actually insenced at first because he believes it really looks good. Then he sees Roy sporting the same thing (only Roy did it because he lost a bet with Nyssa, which Thea told him not to do) and is abhorred and wants it off stat. Think a play on this:

[tv echo]

FYI, some comic sites transcribed that SA quote as: "I can't promise that I'm going to keep [the goatee] forever."

(Instead of:  "I can't promise that it'll be forever.")

SA was difficult to understand in a few places, but the meaning is the same - it's probably temporary.

Edited May 20, 2018 by tv echo

[Guest]

The goatee will probably last for as long as he's in prison. So a few episodes at most? At least the comic fans can tick it off their wish list. 

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

Don’t prisons or judges usually put people like GA in solitary to keep them away from all the prisoners who he put there?  He voluntarily gave up and yet they are putting his life at risk. It makes no sense as usual. 

MG said in an interview

Quote

.That just creates so many cool stories to tell, interesting complications, challenges, dangers. It makes the prison storyline so much more visceral. If we wanted to just stick Oliver in prison, we could have done that without revealing his secret identity, but for us what always made the prison storyline exciting was he's not just trapped in prison, but he's trapped in prison with all these people who know that he's the one who put him there. That's such rich, exciting territory for us to be able to undertake in season seven.

I wish he had been gone sooner.  That's such a short-sighted viewpoint.

Oliver better be out of prison long before the cross-over. I'm not watching for Oliver to be in prison while Diggle is with ARGUS and NTA + BS do the work I come to see Oliver, Diggle and Felicity do.

[BunsenBurner]

10 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

MG said in an interview

I wish he had been gone sooner.  That's such a short-sighted viewpoint.

Oliver better be out of prison long before the cross-over. I'm not watching for Oliver to be in prison while Diggle is with ARGUS and NTA + BS do the work I come to see Oliver, Diggle and Felicity do.

I agree  

So MG says OQ is not just trapped in prison he’s trapped with all the people he put there. This sounds likes MG has a beef with the entire Arrow cast and writers. 

The only story I get out of this is every week Oq is there he’s going to get beaten to a pulp. Boring just like all the other repeat storyline shows and seasons he has already done. 

MG is the kind of writer who has an idea for something new and when it plays out in one season or maybe two he can’t come up with anything new. It shows in most of his work. Unfortunately it makes Berlanti look bad too. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by BunsenBurner
He can mean anyone so I specified the correct person.

[calliope1975]

TPTB used to be so much better at setting up future plots. The LOA, the Bratva, and ARGUS were all mentioned long before we dealt with them in a significant way. The Quadrant and these Longbow Hunters seem like afterthoughts. The Quadrant ended up being laughably ineffective, and I don't have any hope that the LH will be any better. I don't understand why they put so much emphasis on DDDiaz and then writing him so poorly. 

[statsgirl]

At this point, MG seemed to be more about ticking off comic book connections than actually using them to set up decent storyines like the LoA or as fun easter eggs like the boxing glove arrow.

The Longbow Hunters feel like another of those tihngs that are there just because it's a comics deal. I hope Beth can write her way out of this because at this point there is no reason for the LH to go after Oliver other than Dragon controlled them in the comics.  But being run in the comics by Diaz doesn't fit with them being an ancient group that the LoA is afraid of.

[kes0704]

I don’t think I can sit through multiple episodes where Oliver has minimal presence or is isolated from Felicity.

The times where they’ve done that have not been enjoyable episodes or parts of the show for me.

Plus, I’m not invested in BS, Dinah, Rene or Curtis so more of them isn’t that appealing if it comes with much less Oliver, Felicity and Olicity. 

I hope they plan to get him out of prison quickly and don’t stretch it out to the crossover because I would see that as a waste of a third of the season. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by kes0704

[doesntworkonwood]

2 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

TPTB used to be so much better at setting up future plots. The LOA, the Bratva, and ARGUS were all mentioned long before we dealt with them in a significant way. The Quadrant and these Longbow Hunters seem like afterthoughts. The Quadrant ended up being laughably ineffective, and I don't have any hope that the LH will be any better. I don't understand why they put so much emphasis on DDDiaz and then writing him so poorly. 

It's bizarre, I get why they wanted to keep Malcolm Merlyn and Slade around. One is played by John Barrowman (and he was amazing in season 1) and the other was definitely the best part of the flashbacks. But this new guy? The reviews for him have been shit from the beginning, they seemed to be throwing everything at him to make him seem more scary (which is why I think they brought in the Quadrant and the Longbow hunters), and nothing worked. You'd think that by the time they started breaking the last few episodes they would have stopped and though 'Naah, this isn't going to work', but instead we're in for at least one more episode (but lets be real it's probably more). 

I don't know if MG left Beth with this shit show on purpose. The only thing I can hope for is that she decides to kill him over the summer break, and all I get is a one liner about how he tripped over his own feet and ended up dead. 

[BunsenBurner]

28 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

I don’t think I can sit through multiple episodes where Oliver has minimal presence or is isolated from Felicity.

The times where they’ve done that have not been enjoyable episodes or parts of the show for me.

Plus, I’m not invested in BS, Dinah, Rene or Curtis so more of them isn’t that appealing if it comes with much less Oliver, Felicity and Olicity. 

I hope they plan to get him out of prison quickly and don’t stretch it out to the crossover because I would see that as a waste of a third of the season. 

I won’t continue watching. 

[Primal Slayer]

Depending on how the first few episodes of S7 go, if nothing has changed it wont be on my "watch live" list.

Can't wait to see what they have in store for my girl Siren and here's hoping they start to integrate her in better with everyone and actually explore the Laurel angle. 

[KenyaJ]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- SA: "We're going to introduce a new storytelling technique that I'm very excited about. That's all I can say."

Fastforwards to 5 years from now, with William as a high school junior and his 4-year old sister tagging along behind him? Technically, there wouldn't be an Olicity baby, but an Olicity pre-kindergartner. LOL.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Fastforwards to 5 years from now, with William as a high school junior and his 4-year old sister tagging along behind him? Technically, there wouldn't be an Olicity baby, but an Olicity pre-kindergartner. LOL.

Yeah, the fast forward is what I'm afraid of.  Writing to an end point NEVER works.  It didn't even line up in season four by the time they caught up to the flashforward scenes.  

And you know you they'll put something awful in the fast forward which will then hang a cloud over the rest of the series even if when we get to the reality, it's not as it seems.  So please no.  

[way2interested]

But then a fast forward wouldn't be "new," since they did it in s4 already.

[BkWurm1]

I was looking at the spoilers only thread and is it possible he was talking about a new way of telling the story in the crossovers and not so much the regular season?  

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I was looking at the spoilers only thread and is it possible he was talking about a new way of telling the story in the crossovers and not so much the regular season?  

No, he's talking about Season 7 - he mentioned it in an interview with Extra at the upfronts. He said he thought it would give him more time off, and flash forwards don't really do that since presumably he'd be in them too. The only thing I can really think of is character-specific episodes, but they've already done that.

Edited May 21, 2018 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

Sigh

[KenyaJ]

4 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Fastforwards 

Ugh. I meant flashforwards. And despite the thought, I don't want to see those either. Like @BkWurm1 said, the writers have already proven how difficult it is to make them work.

My other thought was maybe Oliver goes to therapy and they use that as a framing device for some scenes? But that's not really a "storytelling device." I do think he needs his own Dr. Melfi, though. When he broke into Cupid's therapist's office in 307, I wanted him to inquire if she was accepting new patients. 

[statsgirl]

Are you sure "fastforwards " wasn't a cognitive slip?

[Lily-n11]

The teams will stay split up for a while. New storytelling technics. And SA will get more time off.

The first thing that came to my mind was: are they gonna pull a later season of Criminal Intent where I only got to watch Goren and Eames every two weeks?

I mean that would cut the episode order in half for me. But no need to fast forward anything if all the people I don't care about are in the episodes I'm going to skip.

So it's bad but it's also good. I'm conflicted.

[JamieLynn832002]

17 minutes ago, Lily-n11 said:

The teams will stay split up for a while. New storytelling technics. And SA will get more time off.

The first thing that came to my mind was: are they gonna pull a later season of Criminal Intent where I only got to watch Goren and Eames every two weeks?

I mean that would cut the episode order in half for me. But no need to fast forward anything if all the people I don't care about are in the episodes I'm going to skip.

So it's bad but it's also good. I'm conflicted.

That was my thought too. Agree about being able to skip NTA eps but I'm guessing they'd occasionally slip big OTA moments in so we couldn't.

Edited May 21, 2018 by JamieLynn832002

[Mellowyellow]

19 minutes ago, Lily-n11 said:

 

The first thing that came to my mind was: are they gonna pull a later season of Criminal Intent where I only got to watch Goren and Eames every two weeks?

Haha unlike the useless worthless N00bs I used to watch the other week of CI and liked it. I rally liked Jeff Goldblum.

I wouldn't mind keeping the N00bs far far away. Arrow every fortnight! But I think it's unlikely as they will need OTA to help sell the useless little sh@ts.

[tv echo]

10 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

No, he's talking about Season 7 - he mentioned it in an interview with Extra at the upfronts. He said he thought it would give him more time off, and flash forwards don't really do that since presumably he'd be in them too. The only thing I can really think of is character-specific episodes, but they've already done that.

@apinknightmare is right - SA mentioned the new storytelling technique in two separate interviews at The CW Upfronts...

-- SA: "In Season 7 we're introducing a new storytelling technique, which I'm very, very excited for, personally, um, in no small part because I think it'll give me some time off, which is always nice. Um, but I'm very, very excited about Season 7. I feel like, um, we kind of had an in-between year, in between Season 5 and Season 7, where I don't know if we knew exactly what we wanted to do with the show. But Season 7 feels very, very set in place." (The CW Upfronts, May 17, 2018: ExtraTV red carpet interview with SA, page 1788 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- SA: "We're going to introduce a new storytelling technique that I'm very excited about. That's all I can say." (The CW Upfronts, May 17, 2018: May 19, 2018 TVLine video of red carpet interview with SA, page 1 of Spoilers/S7 thread and page 696 of Social Media thread)

Edited May 21, 2018 by tv echo

[strikera0]

8 hours ago, Lily-n11 said:

The teams will stay split up for a while. New storytelling technics. And SA will get more time off.

The first thing that came to my mind was: are they gonna pull a later season of Criminal Intent where I only got to watch Goren and Eames every two weeks?

I mean that would cut the episode order in half for me. But no need to fast forward anything if all the people I don't care about are in the episodes I'm going to skip.

So it's bad but it's also good. I'm conflicted.

That's what I'm thinking, too. It would probably make a good chunk of the season unwatchable to many, but it would also be an effective way to reduce the episode count for at least half of the main cast.

Edited May 21, 2018 by strikera0

[statsgirl]

Given how much the ratings and viewership have fallen and the dislike of many for the n00bs,  they would be nuts to alternate OTA and NTA episodes. Not to say they won't but it seems like such a bad move to me.

If Oliver stays in prison they might alternate prison vs outside with Diggle at ARGUS and Felicity on comms for NTA but again,  that's not what viewers want to watch. This is feeling like Castle s8 when they ran out of ideas and changed things just to change them. People hated it and the show was cancelled at the end of the season.

Edited May 21, 2018 by statsgirl

[KenyaJ]

17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Given how much the ratings and viewership have fallen and the dislike of many for the n00bs,  they would be nuts to alternate OTA and NTA episodes. Not to say they won't but it seems like such a bad move to me.

Yeah, I think that would be a disaster. Also, considering his reaction to barely being in 619 (and, to a lesser extent, 620), it's difficult for me to imagine that Stephen would be okay with whole episodes where Oliver is absent or mostly absent. I could see him being excited about working fewer days on each episode, though. If so, yay for him. But considering how much I actively dislike more than half the characters on the show, the thought of him working less does not fill me with enthusiasm.

[statsgirl]

14 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

The only thing I can really think of is character-specific episodes, but they've already done that.

That's the only thing that makes sense to me though. Maybe not doing the specific character/ flashbacks episodes but highlighting different characters in various episodes through the season. It would give SA more time off while avoiding the problem of keeping him off for whole episodes that they had this season while keeping people who don't like NTA watching.

[Trisha]

They’ve done character-specific flashbacks before, but not regularly. I wonder if the new technique is that each episode will include flashbacks to a different character?That would give SA a bit more time off, but not enough to make him feel left out (presumably).

[Primal Slayer]

That'd be a lot of flashbacks though. 7 characters, if each gets 2 that'd be 14 episodes worth. 

[arjumand]

On 5/20/2018 at 5:31 PM, Chaser said:

Confirmed. Felicity shaves it off in the premiere. 

Oh, she'd better. Because I just read about this shit, and if it lasts longer than an episode, I'm done. I'm out. The goatee looked ridiculous in that future episode (I don't know what looked dumber, the old man makeup or the goatee), and it'll look even more ridiculous on present day Oliver. Fuck that shit.

I don't know why this is making me so angry, but it really is. Hey, can the crossover be with the Brooklyn Nine Nine guys, and they can do the ceremonial shaving? Because that would be awesome.

[statsgirl]

55 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

That'd be a lot of flashbacks though. 7 characters, if each gets 2 that'd be 14 episodes worth. 

It doesn't have to be spaced out equally amongst all the characters. Roy can have two to explain what he did during those years off but Curtis and Rene, no thanks.

Rotating the focus among non-Oliver characters is a way of taking the pressure off SA without the two + episode gap this season.

They really should have kept the 'everyone has their own villain' this season rather than making everyone Oliver's foe.

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Rotating the focus among non-Oliver characters is a way of taking the pressure off SA without the two + episode gap this season.

I also wonder if it’s a way to get people to like NTA again? In season 5, most people really didn’t warm up to Rene until he had the flashback ep with his wife and then the fan tide seemed to turn (of course, they screwed that all up in season 6). Dinah’s flashback ep didn’t garner much more goodwill towards her but that was mostly because it didn’t show us anything new. If Black Siren is now around as a “frenemy” next season I can definitely see them fleshing out her backstory. And flashbacks to Roy after he went into hiding make sense.

Knowing this show, I can see them seeing all the negative reaction to this season, realizing that this season was the first one without flashbacks, and blaming that. I don’t think there’s a correlation, but I bet they do. 

[way2interested]

I don't necessarily think they do, especially since they haven't mentioned flashbacks since SDCC when they said they weren't going to use them much anymore. If anything, not using flashbacks has actually made writing episodes easier for them, and, despite whatever content in s6, most of the s6 episodes have been way better balanced than many s3, s4, and s5 episodes.

[Chaser]

When VM was moved to The CW for its 3rd season, they stopped during a season long mystery and instead did mini arcs. I wonder if Arrow would do something like that. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

When VM was moved to The CW for its 3rd season, they stopped during a season long mystery and instead did mini arcs. I wonder if Arrow would do something like that. 

I've been pushing for this forever -- mini arcs with their own villains, instead of a season-long one. Kinda like what they also did with Strike Back on Cinemax. It's a 10-episode season, and each arc covers 2 episode and all the arcs tie togther. If they really want one Big Bad, they could reveal sometime in the back half that all the villains are controlled by 1 person. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

 

-- On whether she's been pushing for a dog on Arrow, EBR: "Yeah, they're not having that. There's no way. They're not having that at all. I was like, 'like a bunker support animal.' They're like, 'no.' Um, I was like, 'okay, let's try something else, like a bunker support kid.' And they were like, 'yes.' And I was like, 'see, this is where we get a little lost.'" EBR would love a running joke of having a cat pop up every once in a while. She said that Colton Haynes would "jump on that" idea because he loves cats.

 

Did you absolutely hear "bunker support kid"? I thought it might be "Cat" since she went on to talk about a cat.

Anyone else hear "kid". Cuz if you did..........hehe hears to hoping she likes to drop in weird "jokes" like SA.

[SmallScreenDiva]

She's not the only one. My friend was live-tweeting the interview and had this reaction:

[calliope1975]

I like the idea of some random kid who wanders into the bunker (cuz Lord knows there's no security) and hangs out, does their homework, and supplies the occasional quip. Felicity brings them (and her) ice cream, Digg helps them with their English homework, and Oliver glares a lot, but is secretly happy.

[Yes, I know they have an actual kid, but I don't like his acting so give me a better kid who can act.]

Edited May 21, 2018 by calliope1975

[lemotomato]

Random, but I just saw MG’s tweet claiming that he asked for an artist’s rendition of the god awful comics goatee on SA, and I realized that since SDCC coincides with filming the first or second episodes of the season, we might know how long the ugly facial hair lasts. 

That thing might ruin all the SDCC photos ?

[Mellowyellow]

Just checked it! Definitely kid! haha I tried to psych myself out and hear "cat" but it was definitely kid.

That's a really strange statement.......................*Olicitot radar swivels even more*

[calliope1975]

Just now, lemotomato said:

That thing might ruin all the SDCC photos ?

SA has ONE JOB at SDCC and that is to be rested, engaged, and hot. The Van Dyke is NOT HOT. I didn't even realize this is now a thing that will upset me, lol. 

[Mellowyellow]

I just had a terrible thought. What if they don't write Felicity as hating the goatee! What if she declares it to be hot and jumps his bones in it! 

[SmallScreenDiva]

27 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I just had a terrible thought. What if they don't write Felicity as hating the goatee! What if she declares it to be hot and jumps his bones in it! 

I'm not sure even Olicity's super hot chemistry is going to sell that goatee.

[way2interested]

34 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I just had a terrible thought. What if they don't write Felicity as hating the goatee! What if she declares it to be hot and jumps his bones in it! 

Then Oliver would decide he hates it, since even SA said it won't last forever.

[lemotomato]

I think it’ll be gone as soon as Oliver gets out of jail. The problem is that we don’t know how long he’s going to be in jail.

[Mellowyellow]

I just hope they don't tarnish her character by making her lust after yucky old man Oliver ?

[statsgirl]

If they don't want to keep the goatee, and I really don't think they do, Felicity will hate it.