Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Totally agree with you on this. I'm really irritated with a lot of the angles she chose to shoot the Olicity wedding reception. 

The kiss or lack thereof was a shocker! I still can't work out if one of them had a cold and they couldn't kiss so the camera hid it or they botched up capturing an Olicity kiss!!!! 

*shakes fist*

[statsgirl]

I find it ironic that Bamford, who was the stunt coordinator for the show, is the worst at shooting stunts. Maybe he feels that they are so amazing that he as director doesn't need to put any work into it.

As well as the shaky cam,  Bamford tends to shoot them really dark so I can barely see what's going on.

The flip side of his love of stunts is that he cuts off the emotional beats too soon, before they've had a chance to sink in properly.

A good director, Wendy Stanzler for example, makes both the stunts and the emotional beats shine.

Gregory Smith was pretty bad when he got his first Arrow directing gigs too but unlike Bamford,  he's improved quite a bit.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I find it ironic that Bamford, who was the stunt coordinator for the show, is the worst at shooting stunts. Maybe he feels that they are so amazing that he as director doesn't need to put any work into it.

As well as the shaky cam,  Bamford tends to shoot them really dark so I can barely see what's going on.

The flip side of his love of stunts is that he cuts off the emotional beats too soon, before they've had a chance to sink in properly.

A good director, Wendy Stanzler for example, makes both the stunts and the emotional beats shine.

Gregory Smith was pretty bad when he got his first Arrow directing gigs too but unlike Bamford,  he's improved quite a bit.

I think he thinks the stunt comes first and he builds everything around that. Instead of building the stunts into the story and actors.  Drives me crazy!

[KenyaJ]

The crazy thing to me is that the cast freaking loves him. I stumbled across this interview again the other day, and was shocked by how much they gush about him and wish he could direct every episode. (Can you even imagine? Ugh.)

Edited February 15, 2018 by KenyaJ

[EmilyBettFan]

I think they were laying it on too thick LOL 

[Primal Slayer]

MG did a interview with Geekvibes, nothing really new or spoilery but Roy will be getting a new "comic accurate" outfit when he returns since of course Thea has his costume.

Shocker....Dinah/Oliver won't be getting together.

No plans to bring back Evelyn this season. 

That was about all. 

[insomniadreams88]

37 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Shocker....Dinah/Oliver won't be getting together.

Someone actually wasted a question during an interview on this? 

[Featherhat]

So Dinah currently hates Oliver, blames him for everything ever this season and people still wonder if they might get together. Talk about interchangable Canaries. Dinah/Dig was something I though might happen before 4th Canary/giant hypocrite, though I never wanted it.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Featherhat

[Primal Slayer]

20 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Someone actually wasted a question during an interview on this? 

Unfortunately. 

[lemotomato]

22 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Someone actually wasted a question during an interview on this? 

You'd be surprised at how many people still think this is going to happen. Not just comics purists, but Olicity fans too.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

So Dinah currently hates Oliver, blames him for everything ever this season abut people still wonder if they might get together. Talk about interchangable Canaries. Dinah/Dig was something I though might happen before 4th Canary/giant hypocrite.

Never mind that Oliver is actually married to someone else who he is actually deeply in love with and does not appear to be inclined towards cheating on her with anyone for any reason. 

[tv echo]

I've posted a link to Geekvibes Nation's Feb. 14 radio interview with MG in the New Spoilers thread here. Highlights of what MG said...

-- He doesn't think there's any chance of doing an Oliver & Dinah love story.
-- They have no desire to do a storyline about Oliver cheating on his wife.
-- Felicity will never become the BC.
-- The chip in Diggle's arm will definitely come back into play in 614.
-- When CH returns, Roy Harper is going to go out in the field and will be rocking a new look that's true to the comics.
-- They'll eventually get around to revisiting Artemis, but probably not this season.
-- It's unlikely that Dick Grayson will ever appear on Arrow.
-- He's had specific conversations with DC Comics about either Sportsmaster or Cheshire, but won't say which one.
-- Onomatopoeia is a character that's still on their bucket list.

ETA: MG also related some interesting, b-t-s information (like how SA was the first person to audition for any part on Arrow) that I've posted in the Social Media thread here.

Edited February 15, 2018 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

It was interesting that they get an increase in budget for the crossovers and whatever money they don't spend on it gets put towards the remainder of the season. 

[Guest]

Asking about Oliver/Dinah is more proof that the Canaries are completely interchangeable to a lot of comic fans. They literally don't care which one Oliver ends up with as long as it's a BC. Doesn't matter if the relationship history isn't there or if Oliver barely gives Dinah a second glance or the fact that he's happily married to Felicity. It really grosses me out tbh. *Shudders*

ANYWAY, what do they mean by Roy's costume is true to the comics? What was it in the comics?

[darkestboy]

I'm happy for Dick Grayson to be left to Titans.

Good about Felicity never being Black Canary. No one wants that anyways.

Really don't want to see Evelyn back. Dreadful character. 

Can't wait to see Roy back in action, he's been missed.

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

ANYWAY, what do they mean by Roy's costume is true to the comics? What was it in the comics?

 

[Guest]

Thanks @Morrigan2575! So we're gonna see him rocking a hat then? Hehe.

[Primal Slayer]

Depends on which outfit they're talking about. New52 or Pre-52.

[Cleanqueen]

Sometimes I feel like we're the only ones that cant stand Bam's directing because he gets praised everywhere for his episodes and it's truly annoying.

The Dinah question was beyond stupid, but these ppl dont care they just want their comic book romance even though they dont know which version it is that they want.

I would take Evelyn over the self entitled crybabies that we currently have.

[Primal Slayer]

While I wouldn't mind if they gave Evelyn the YJ history, in the podcast I couldn't help to think she wasn't THE Artemis, Artemis Crock. So being excited that they may bring in YJ aspects didn't fully make sense. 

[Guest]

I'd forgotten that Evelyn even exists tbh. Ooops?

[KenyaJ]

35 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Asking about Oliver/Dinah is more proof that the Canaries are completely interchangeable to a lot of comic fans. They literally don't care which one Oliver ends up with as long as it's a BC. Doesn't matter if the relationship history isn't there or if Oliver barely gives Dinah a second glance or the fact that he's happily married to Felicity. It really grosses me out tbh. *Shudders*

Seriously. It's gross. I can only think of one time when Oliver and Dinah even had a significant conversation with each other (in her second episode!). Based on what we've seen on the show, there's no basis for putting those two characters together beyond their code names. The fact that that's enough for some people blows my mind.

Also, reading MG's answer about all the canaries kind of made me wish that they'd introduce a new one every season just for laughs. Each one could die in the season finale and a new one could regenerate in the next season premiere.

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Asking about Oliver/Dinah is more proof that the Canaries are completely interchangeable to a lot of comic fans. They literally don't care which one Oliver ends up with as long as it's a BC. Doesn't matter if the relationship history isn't there or if Oliver barely gives Dinah a second glance or the fact that he's happily married to Felicity. It really grosses me out tbh. *Shudders*

They really are. I took a glance at Twitter after the interview went up and there are tweets about Oliver/Dinah, but also tweets about Oliver/Dinah Lance that I'm pretty sure in at least some cases mean Oliver/Laurel? 

58 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

reading MG's answer about all the canaries kind of made me wish that they'd introduce a new one every season just for laughs. Each one could die in the season finale and a new one could regenerate in the next season premiere.

But they each have to have Laurel, Dinah, Drake and/or Lance in their names. If they have all four? Automatically get the mask. 

[statsgirl]

What is it about these superhero costumes with the bare arms? Is it more important to look manly than to have an outfit that keeps you from being hurt?

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

Sometimes I feel like we're the only ones that cant stand Bam's directing because he gets praised everywhere for his episodes and it's truly annoying.

The Dinah question was beyond stupid, but these ppl dont care they just want their comic book romance even though they dont know which version it is that they want.

I would take Evelyn over the self entitled crybabies that we currently have.

I feel like he’s the director’s equivalent of people praising fathers for providing basic care to their own children. 

Dinah and Oliver are like work acquaintances who do not socialize outside the office and she was only invited to the wedding to be polite because it’s a small office and you don’t want to be rude by excluding someone even if you don’t really care if they are there or not...

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

Also, reading MG's answer about all the canaries kind of made me wish that they'd introduce a new one every season just for laughs. Each one could die in the season finale and a new one could regenerate in the next season premiere.

Black Canary is already the drummer in Spinal Tap might as well go all in. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

Sometimes I feel like we're the only ones that cant stand Bam's directing because he gets praised everywhere for his episodes and it's truly annoying.

I don't hate BamBam, I think he's improved since his first attempt. I just don't think he's a good director. He seems to just copy camera work he thinks is cool but doesn't know how set the scene properly from within the story.

He is also way to attached to that damn shakey cam. That was the only thing that clued me in that 610 was his episode. That one action scene at the docks.

Quote

I would take Evelyn over the self entitled crybabies that we currently have.

I just can't agree with this comments. 

Evelyn betrayed Oliver and Team just as bad, if not worse than Team THAT. Let's not forget she helped Chase torture Oliver, she kidnapped Lance/Thea and, was more than willing to see them all die on that Island.

As for LL and/or BS. Dinah just replaced LL/KC. In every aspect they have just swapped out one for the other. Dinah/JH is getting 4th screentime just like LL/KC. Dinah/JH is getting a few episodes in the spring dedicated to her, just like LL/KC got every January.

Swapping out Dinah for BS wouldn't push BS into the far back, she'd end up right back in the 4th spot with a few episodes in January.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[calliope1975]

39 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Evelyn betrayed Oliver and Team just as bad, if not worse than Team THAT.

It's because of this betrayal that NTA knows about that boggles my mind that they are so affronted at Oliver's suspicion of them. They were betrayed by Evelyn, too, and I don't understand why no one has connected the dots that Rene didn't just betray Oliver, he betrayed the whole team. Gonna write betrayed one more time just for fun.

[Cleanqueen]

50 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

I just can't agree with this comments. 

Evelyn betrayed Oliver and Team just as bad, if not worse than Team THAT. Let's not forget she helped Chase torture Oliver, she kidnapped Lance/Thea and, was more than willing to see them all die on that Island.

 

and shes young and impressionable, I totally believe if anyone can be redeemed it's her. I dont excuse her actions but what she did makes sense for her age and what she was going through at the time. 

[BkWurm1]

19 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

The crazy thing to me is that the cast freaking loves him. I stumbled across this interview again the other day, and was shocked by how much they gush about him and wish he could direct every episode. (Can you even imagine? Ugh.)

 

I tend to assume the cast hasn't watched most of his episodes and are just speaking about the experience of working with him. 

[statsgirl]

8 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

and shes young and impressionable, I totally believe if anyone can be redeemed it's her. I dont excuse her actions but what she did makes sense for her age and what she was going through at the time. 

Being upset with him when she found out that Oliver used to kill more when he started out being a vigilante and so going to support a serial killer who kills as easily as he breathes and doesn't care who gets hurt including her friends will never make sense to me.

Giving Curtis, Rene and Diggle Christmas stockings and then going to betray them is the act of a sociopath.  I'm never going to like Rene after this but even he is more redeemable than Evelyn. They really screwed it up with writing her if they ever want her back on Team Arrow.

[lemotomato]

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Giving Curtis, Rene and Diggle Christmas stockings and then going to betray them is the act of a sociopath.  I'm never going to like Rene after this but even he is more redeemable than Evelyn.

In that vein, Rene gave a speech about love and how great Oliver and Felicity are together even when he knew he would be responsible for separating them for a long time when his testimony puts Oliver in jail. 

[statsgirl]

Yeah, that was pretty bad of Rene. But I think he really believes that what he did will not have major consequences because, well, just because. He really is so self-centered that he does what he needs to do and it will all work out for everyone else, and if it doesn't, at least it will work out for him. 

But unlike Evelyn, I don't think he bears Oliver any malice.

13 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- On whether there's any chance that we'll get an Oliver-Dinah love angle, MG: "Um, I don't think so. Uh, look, I get it. I understand why you're asking 'cause, you know, Oliver's the Green Arrow and Dinah's the Black Canary, and Green Arrow and Black Canary are together in the comics. Um, but, you know, Oliver's now married to someone who's not the Black Canary or ever will be the Black Canary. And I just don't think there's any desire on our parts to tell a story about Oliver cheating on his wife." 

-- Geekvibes guy then said that he wasn't asking mainly because of comics but because he loved the two actors who play Oliver and Dinah on screen together. MG: "Yeah, they're really fantastic together. I will say, right now, they like really hate each other. Not the actors, the characters. The characters really, really hate each other right now. So that's probably the other pretty significant impediment, um, you know, to getting them together. Right now, they would just as soon kill each other as kiss each other." The Geekvibes guy then said: "But we do know from the whole comic world, the more aggression two characters have like that toward each other, usually means the best love story blossoms from it." 

-- Geekvibes guy said he understood why they didn't want to go down the story line of Oliver cheating on his wife. MG: "I can't think of a quicker way to get the internet to hate me more than it already does. And that's really saying something."

 

The idea that the more aggression two characters have towards each other = the best love story makes me think that maybe some of these guys do live in their parents' basements.

Also, not fantastic together at all.

Edited February 16, 2018 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

49 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Being upset with him when she found out that Oliver used to kill more when he started out being a vigilante and so going to support a serial killer who kills as easily as he breathes and doesn't care who gets hurt including her friends will never make sense to me.

Giving Curtis, Rene and Diggle Christmas stockings and then going to betray them is the act of a sociopath.  I'm never going to like Rene after this but even he is more redeemable than Evelyn. They really screwed it up with writing her if they ever want her back on Team Arrow.

I remember Evelyns portrayer actually defending her Hypocrisy on Twitter SMH something like "Oliver was responsible for her parents death Promethus wasn't " never mind that Prometheus killed Innocent people and Oliver didnt. I SMH at her idiotic response

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Yeah, that was pretty bad of Rene. But I think he really believes that what he did will not have major consequences because, well, just because. He really is so self-centered that he does what he needs to do and it will all work out for everyone else, and if it doesn't, at least it will work out for him. 

But unlike Evelyn, I don't think he bears Oliver any malice.

The idea that the more aggression two characters have towards each other = the best love story makes me think that maybe some of these guys do live in their parents' basements.

Also, not fantastic together at all.

And its not even sexual tension of any kind, it's just tension brought on by this whiny toddlers story line and before that I'm not sure they gave each other more than a passing thought except when a mission required it. It really is about code names for some viewers.

As for René I'd really like to know why they have him say "this doesn't change anything Hoss!" Every episode, like Oliver was the one planning on testifying against HIM. He might not have thought out the consequences, including loosing his day job and continuing to be a vigilante despite outing himself but in that case he's an idiot and a liability to the Toddlers as well. Well theyre all a liability to each other and would be to the city if they are actually interested in helping.

[Trisha]

19 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't hate BamBam, I think he's improved since his first attempt. I just don't think he's a good director. He seems to just copy camera work he thinks is cool but doesn't know how set the scene properly from within the story.

Yeah, I don’t mind him usually either but it’s weird how he just copies the same camera work over and over. I remember really liking his first fight scene because it was so different - really low cameras, over the shoulder shots that made you feel like you were there, a long one take. But they’ve since become harder to follow.  Too much focus on shaky cams and one-takes, not enough on blocking scenes in a way that make sense visually. At this point, I much prefer fights directed by Lexi Alexander or Wendy Stanzler. 

I do like how Bam shoots the bunker though. I don’t know if it’s because he loves wide shots, but it always feels more impressive and larger in his eps. 

[Belinea]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The idea that the more aggression two characters have towards each other = the best love story makes me think that maybe some of these guys do live in their parents' basements.

That is a really f***ed up way to see a relationship. They hit each other and then they f***.  How is what sounds like an abusive relationship better than having Oliver in a loving relationship? Then of course, some people consider Felicity to be abusive towards Oliver...

Also it seems to me as though the guy seriously cannot let it go, even though MG said they wouldn't go there. And of course it isn't about comics, it is about Oliver and Dinah. Sure. Because they had so many meaningful scenes together since she is part of the show. Nothing to do with comics at all. 

[tv echo]

Yeah, that aggression=love story comment threw me too. Maybe the Geeksvibe guy was confusing or conflating tv Dinah with comics Dinah, who kicked comics Oliver in the crotch. Or maybe he was thinking of the tv trope where two people act like they hate each other to cover up their mutual secret attraction (though usually that hostility is verbal, not physical), and then suddenly kiss or have sex right in the middle of an argument. The problem is that, on Arrow, I've never seen any hint of any mutual attraction between Oliver and Dinah.

Btw, with tongue in cheek, here are 2 ways in which Dinah Drake can become Dinah Lance: 

1. Dinah marries Quentin and becomes Dinah Lance, but then Quentin dies and Dinah keeps her married name.
2. Dinah is adopted by Quentin to replace his dead daughter, Laurel, and becomes Dinah Lance.

Then to put a cherry on top of it, we learn that - coincidentally - Dinah's middle name is Laurel! #TheRoadNotTaken

Edited February 16, 2018 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

In the Comics Dinah Drake marries Larry Lance (Quentin's first name) soooo......

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

That is a really f***ed up way to see a relationship. They hit each other and then they f***.  How is what sounds like an abusive relationship better than having Oliver in a loving relationship? Then of course, some people consider Felicity to be abusive towards Oliver...

Also it seems to me as though the guy seriously cannot let it go, even though MG said they wouldn't go there. And of course it isn't about comics, it is about Oliver and Dinah. Sure. Because they had so many meaningful scenes together since she is part of the show. Nothing to do with comics at all. 

For real, how many scenes have Oliver and Dinah had together without anyone else there that were not work related info dumps in the Mayor’s office? The one after Vince dies?

Also, not to be pedantic but MG didn’t really shut it down, he said that Oliver would not cheat on Felicity, fans of the greatest love story never told can still hope for her death. Sigh. Though even if Oliver was in a polyamorous relationship with Fauxrel and Dinah they would probably still wish for Felicity’s death. 

[insomniadreams88]

Quote

Geekvibes guy then said that he wasn't asking mainly because of comics but because he lovedthe two actors who play Oliver and Dinah on screen together. MG: "Yeah, they're really fantastic together. I will say, right now, they like really hate each other. Not the actors, the characters. The characters really, really hate each other right now. So that's probably the other pretty significant impediment, um, you know, to getting them together. Right now, they would just as soon kill each other as kiss each other." The Geekvibes guy then said: "But we do know from the whole comic world, the more aggression two characters have like that toward each other, usually means the best love story blossoms from it." 

Well, I'd argue that Arrow already has its "best love story" with Oliver/Felicity. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by insomniadreams88

[way2interested]

Quote

Arrow - Episode 6.17 - Brothers in Arms
Arrow - Episode 6.18 - Back to the Basics

I'm dying with 618's title. SA, DR, and EBR must have loved that.

[Guest]

Me, seeing "Back to the Basics."

Edited February 16, 2018 by Guest

[Chaser]

"Let's get Dirty." Olicity episode anyone?

[way2interested]

If not then likely it'll be an OTA episode.

[Morrigan2575]

26 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm dying with 618's title. SA, DR, and EBR must have loved that.

Where did you get those? SpoilerTV again?

 

20 minutes ago, Chaser said:

"Let's get Dirty." Olicity episode anyone?

Huh? I'm lost.

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Where did you get those? SpoilerTV again?

Yep, SpoilerTv posted it along with the 615 press release.

[WindofChange]

16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

ROY HARPER RETURNS —  Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Thea (Willa Holland) are shocked to hear that Roy Harper (guest star Colton Haynes) is back in Star City. However, when they discover the circumstances of Roy’s return, Oliver and Thea realize that Roy is in trouble and jump in to save him. Black Siren (Katie Cassidy) makes a shocking decision. https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/02/arrow-episode-615-doppelganger-press.html

Why is it that BS is always mentioned in episode synopsis even though she has less than a minute of screentime? LOL I feel like they're overcompensating for something.

Also I'm guessing the shocking decision is her deciding to pose as Laurel Lance again because apparently when it comes to her everyone in Arrow turns into a moron just to make her relevant. 

Other than that, I'm excited for the Roy of it all though

Edited February 16, 2018 by WindofChange

[Chaser]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Where did you get those? SpoilerTV again?

 

Huh? I'm lost.

They were really selling S5 as 'back to the basics' and during an interview EBR was teased about hating the line and then the Christina Aguilera song. SA sang the line 'let's get dirty' at one point.

It reminded me of that and the lack of Olicity desert this season.

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

In the Comics Dinah Drake marries Larry Lance (Quentin's first name) soooo......

I can see it now .... after Dinah helps Quentin realize that BS isn't his daughter and torturing her in the wood with memories of Laurel, and he keeps Dinah from killing her even though BS really is evil, they bond over their shared pain ... and love strikes.

[lemotomato]

21 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Why is it that BS is always mentioned in episode synopsis even though she has less than a minute of screentime? LOL I feel like they're overcompensating for something.

Because Chico!