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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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11 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

don't want to see him lead the team of villains if ME is really gone after 613ish, so I'm really hoping that doesn't happen.

Ugh. If that happens ugh. Imagine giving up a classy Emmy winning talented actor like Michael Emerson for some nobody actor who compares himself to Bruce Lee.  And seriously Richard Dragon is dull as a door knob of a character. 

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2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

That hack Bamford is directing 4 eps this season right? Is 610 his 4th or third ep?

Just checking to see how many amateur crooked/shaky camera episodes I have to sit through still.

I guess I should be preparing for at least one nausea-inducing scene! Or, at the very least, a very shaky cam scene all for "art" or whatever. 

How can other directors do the shaky cam correctly but Bam Bam can't? I know he's had zero education in directing, but he's had to have had directors as mentors during the time he started becoming interested in directing, right? 

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Ugh, really? Though I probably shouldn't be surprised. I used to like KA. And then I saw how he is on Twitter and that changed. Plus, considering his character hasn't done much ... which isn't on him, it's on the writing and his intro was weak, but to be honest, because of how he is on Twitter, I don't want to see more of him. I don't want to see him lead the team of villains if ME is really gone after 613ish, so I'm really hoping that doesn't happen.

I didn't even know who KA was before I started reading about his Twitter problems. Now, his personal life is affecting the way I see him on screen. 

Quick question: do we know for sure that ME's filming his last four episodes back to back? Or is there a chance he's spreading out his last four episodes over the course of the season? I haven't been paying attention to when ME has been filming, so I'm not quite sure about what's going on there. Also, is there any hope that Cayden James doesn't die because of ME's contract being up and he just goes into hiding if he is filming his last episode? 

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13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Quick question: do we know for sure that ME's filming his last four episodes back to back? Or is there a chance he's spreading out his last four episodes over the course of the season? I haven't been paying attention to when ME has been filming, so I'm not quite sure about what's going on there. Also, is there any hope that Cayden James doesn't die because of ME's contract being up and he just goes into hiding if he is filming his last episode? 

He said that he only had four episodes left in one interview and in another interview he mentioned wrapping right before Christmas and then having a huge break going into January to start auditioning for other things and to travel with his wife. Since he's in 610 and 613, I took it to mean that he's in 610-613 as his last four and then he's done for the season (unless he comes back later in March or April I guess but 604, 607, 609, and 610-613 would be the 7 episodes that he was referring to I'm thinking).

Along with the supposed title for 613, it screams some sort of twist with this guy, which maybe we'll find out more in 610, but I'm not sure what yet exactly. 

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5 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Ugh. If that happens ugh. Imagine giving up a classy Emmy winning talented actor like Michael Emerson for some nobody actor who compares himself to Bruce Lee.  And seriously Richard Dragon is dull as a door knob of a character. 

Admittedly, I was a little tired of the continual 10 steps ahead thing with Prometheus by the end of last season, but Josh Segarra made it work, was a great villain and seems like a good guy offscreen.  

I think it’s going to be a big step backwards if Richard Dragon ends up being the main villain because his introduction has been nothing spectacular and I don’t really care for the actor after his Twitter issues.

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I have a hard time seeing anyone in Team Villain outside of James working in the Big Bad role. I mean Dragon has the actor and comic name but the intro was so lackluster. BS has been the right hand minion, the EPs have talked about doing a female Big Bad and they can’t seem to differentiate Laurels so I can see them thinking there’s an emotional thing there but I have such a hard time believing they would follow JS and ME with KC and so far all BS seems to like to do is smirk and kill. 

I wonder if they could be introducing a suprise Big Bad in the back half.

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Maybe Anatoly? But beyond that no, I can't really see any of them working either. Do we even know the one's name? The one who worked with BS and Cayden in Reversal? Team Villain is so far fairly lackluster. 

 

I could see a surprise Big Bad but they wouldn't have much time to make us care. Of course, at this point that's true of most of Team Villain too.

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8 hours ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Maybe Anatoly? But beyond that no, I can't really see any of them working either. Do we even know the one's name? The one who worked with BS and Cayden in Reversal? Team Villain is so far fairly lackluster. 

 

I could see a surprise Big Bad but they wouldn't have much time to make us care. Of course, at this point that's true of most of Team Villain too.

Boots?

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I am curious to know how they are going to reconcile the situation between OTA and the noobs.  I personally could care less about the noobs and the biggest shocker would be they did not return to team Arrow.  Girl can hope but, I don't see any situation where Rene should be forgiven again for outing Oliver and agreeing to testify against him.  How do you ever trust Rene again.  He is a rat.  I still don't understand how Curtis and BC can even trust him.  How can they be mad at Oliver or OTA for spying on them when Rene was/is willing to testify that Oliver is the GA and lead to the rest of them be outed.  Am I missing something?

I admit I have never been a fan of WD but I don't see how this can be fixed with him.

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If I bothered to take MG at his word, I would expect at least one of them to leave the group permanently. My preference would be for Curtis to go, he just bugs me. In story wise I think it's more likely that Rene would go. Realistically, I think it's more likely all 3 will be back on the team by end of season.

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Even forgetting about Rene testifying, how can anyone trust him in the field? Still can't believe that Rene and Curtis turned off their comms during a mission - a mission where they knew Felicity and Diggle didn't have any eyes or ears other than the newbies inside - and thought that wasn't a major problem. 

And the thing is, I don't see Rene's attitude changing in the field, considering at the moment he needed to obey/should have obeyed every single order, he couldn't. So they can find a way to resolve the matter of him testifying (likely in some messy/stupid way), but that's not the only issue. 

Edited by insomniadreams88
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I am certain Rene could end up back on the team. People in this verse have forgiven each other for a lot worse than this. Granted, I cant imagine Oliver really trusting Rene again after this without some serious demonstrations of team unity, but since the writers really want him to be a thing, I am positive we`ll be stuck with him. Besides, wouldn't it be super awkward at the next cross over, knowing that this guy sold out a superhero, and could do the same thing to any of them the second things got rough? Honor among masks, dude!* Of course, if anyone was to leave, I would want it to be Curtis (who has even less of a point than even the rest of the pointless B Squad) but I dont see that happening either. 

So instead of the Legion of Doom, we get the Legion of inconvenience

*I dont think they will go that far, but what would happen if the FBI asked Rene to turn over the names of every superhero he knows (who is basically everybody in the Arrowverse) or anyone who works with them? Would he do it, and doom everyone to get to be free and with his daughter? Even if he wouldn't go that far, how would people not worry about that? 

Edited by tennisgurl
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(edited)
26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If I were on that team, I wouldn't want Rene back on it. This is the second time he's sold Oliver out. I think Oliver was right to give him a second chance after he got tortured by Tobias Church, but now that he's rolled over for the FBI? I wouldn't be giving this dude any more chances, although I'm sure they will. 

I agreed that it's hard to see the team take him back. As much as they set this up to be about Rene betraying Oliver he really betrayed the entire group. I'm not really sure how any of them trust him going forward. Of course none of it really makes much sense, since apparently he gets suited up with the B Team. 

If I look at it from one perspective they could have an exit set up for him. Have the group forgive him because, you know they will but, have him choose to leave vigilante stuff because of his daughter.

If they really wanted to make this storyline have an impact they'd actually end it with one or 2 of the noobs leaving for good, showing that there are consequences and choices.

I just don't expect that will happen ?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think Oliver was even right to give him another chance after Rene betrayed them for the FBI because it was for his daughter. I mean, he still stupidly assumed that what FBI Lady was saying was the truth, but still. It was when Rene defied orders on a mission, when Oliver specifically asked to put aside their issues for the mission, that's when I'd never let him on the team again. Once you decide to do your own thing without telling the other team members when one of them is literally meeting with the bad guys, you don't deserve to be a team member. 

Even so, I'd rather Curtis the one permanently off the team, if there's only one. Since the show insists on him fighting on the field instead of backing up Felicity, I'd rather he just left altogether, especially after he threw a hissy fit all because he destroyed his own marriage and insists on blaming others. He also has consistently annoyed me from the moment he was brought on the team. Dinah is one I'm annoyed at too, but she can be fixed with her just not keeping any more major secrets and backing off a little bit. She was just fine for me last season, and used perfectly, even if I hate the Canary Cry. Plus, another female on the team is kind of nice. 

I'm still disappointed by the news that Cayden James is not really the ultimate season's Big Bad and that it's likely Dick Dragon.

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6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm still disappointed by the news that Cayden James is not really the ultimate season's Big Bad and that it's likely Dick Dragon.

I love the nickname. Fits the personality and Richard is too much to type anyway.

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Yeah, if I could only choose one newbie to leave permanently by the end of this team split, it would be Curtis. Since they seem to be set on "we need to have a Black Canary," I'd rather have Dinah than any sort of redeemed BS/some LL from another Earth (because I honestly wouldn't put it past them). While Rene's attitude is bothering me again, I'd still take him over S5/S6 Curtis. Partly because I still don't know what Curtis brings to the field other than his T-spheres that anyone could probably use? (Mostly because S5/S6 Curtis is really annoying.) And I don't want him in the bunker, doing things that Felicity would have done herself before his character existed on the show. 

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3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I agreed that it's hard to see the team take him back. As much as they set this up to be about Rene betraying Oliver he really betrayed the entire group. I'm not really sure how any of them trust him going forward. Of course none of it really makes much sense, since apparently he gets suited up with the B Team. 

Not only that, but how is he still suiting up with anyone? His own vigilanteism put him in legal jeopardy, he avoided it by making a deal with the feds, and the feds are letting him continue his vigilanteism? That makes zero sense, even in Arrow's nonsensical legal world.

Edited by KenyaJ
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9 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Not only that, but how is he still suiting up with anyone? His own vigilanteism put him in legal jeopardy, he avoided it by making a deal with the feds, and the feds are letting him continue his vigilanteism? That makes zero sense, even in Arrow's nonsensical legal world.

Yeah, nothing about this makes sense - that Curtis and Dinah are dumb enough to form a mini team with him knowing that Watson knows he's Wild Dog, and that he's already provided info to her - I get maybe still trusting him as a friend...Dinah wasn't around when he outed Oliver to Church and Curtis wasn't super friendly with him OR Oliver back then so I could buy them maybe not caring, but not caring about this makes zero sense. I mean, even if they ultimately decided that they wanted to still suit up/still suit up with Rene there should've at least been some verbalized hesitation about it. 

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I hate that shot of the newbies drinking to their new team. Plus they seem to have taken over the old Helix bunker which bugs me for some reason. 

Didn't Curtis basically say that Team Arrow was the reason he was unhappy and why his marriage broke down (?) so...he just forms a new team? MAKES SENSE. Ugh, I can't stand him.

And the newbies look like pissy brats in some of those shots and all I can think is they only have themselves to blame and have no right to have the attitude, Rene especially.

I basically hate this OTA vs newbies thing because it's not endearing me to the newbies at all. And it certainly won't when they start acting like OTA needs them, which I'm expecting will happen in a couple of episodes. ?

Edited by Angel12d
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The 610 photos are kind of disappointing?

The good: OTA, Cayden James, Thea 

The bad: The newbies toasting. The newbies in general. The fact that Vigilante sitting there with all those weapons/ammo screams "he's totally a villain, it makes total sense he's working with villains, don't question it, look at all those weapons!" 

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I'm guessing Felicity has definitely moved in with Oliver, right? And she's only using the loft as her office. Now I'm wondering if the building is zoned mixed residential/business ... I mean, what would the neighbors say when she finally gets employees. Although hopefully she moves out before then. This is how bored I am with the OTA vs. noobs plot. I'm more worried about the building's zoning code.

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21 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Team Villain having a board meeting made me laugh. 

 

"Are you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?" -Stringer Bell 

"Cheers to screwing over the guy who got me a fancy job, saved my life, and got me my daughter again!" *clink* -Rene and the other two stooges. Honestly, why would they ever want to suit up with Rene after this? Even beyond Rene being a known stoolpidgen, Watson knows that he is Wild Dog now, dont they figure she can pretty easily figure out who they are if they pal around with him all the time? I can see them staying friends, but the guy is superhero toxic right now. And thats not even factoring in that he could turn on them again if Watson turns up the heat again. 

"Mr. Dog, in order to get custody of your daughter again, we will need you to list every superhero, villain, or known associate that you are aware of. Please include full names, weapons, skills, powers, and anything else we should know before we start filling out arrest warrants. We assume you all know each other, as you've saved the world about 30 times now." 

"I dont know..."

"Well, its based on extremely flimsy and circumstantial evidence, and very suspicious eye witness testimony collected by an agent with a clear grudge" 

"Oh, alright then, guess I dont have a choice. Lets start with Allen and work our way through the alphabet. Hypothetically, what are your policies on arresting people who haven't technically been born yet..."

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I really don’t care for this OTA against Newbies dynamic. Doesn’t it seem like they are trying to create a mirror image? So Dinah is who? Diggle? Which is not really realistic because none of the newbies have the expierence that Oliver and Diggle have. I love how they sometimes seemingly make them all equally competent  even though they really aren’t. 

Also why would anyone trust Rene? Maybe they will take away from this that team mates have to be honest. God knows we haven‘t seen that storyline before. 

Also, not trying to be rude but what is KC doing with her facial expression? 

And maybe I missed this but FBI Lady knows about Rene being WD, right... so he just can go back to being WD? 

Edited by Belinea
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Tbh, x10 episodes have always been some of my favorites even though they've all had awful premises. Besides the newbies looking quite frankly immature compared to OTA in the pics (which I'm guessing might be what they'll be going for), idk, I want to actually get some answers for Team Villain and see OTA working together again.

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Those pics of what looks like yet another OTA/noob confrontation in the loft makes me tired. Yea. More listening to Rene and Curtis and Dinah be self-righteous and wrong as they try to justify their little rebellion. Yawn.

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I'm gonna be odd man out here, but I can tolerate Curtis more than Dinah, and WAY more than Rene. I think it's because I liked him when he was introduced in season 4, and had time to get used to him before he was full force on the team. Don't get me wrong, I still can't stand him, but he doesn't annoy me as much as those two. I really hope they are setting up Rene to leave at the end of the season with his kid. This new team has made me miss the old team that I didn't even like lol. I, a Roy hater, would gladly take him back if it means the newbies go away.

I really hope MG's words mean something and some of the newbies actually leave. If Rene goes away to be a dad (lol something he never cared about on his own), they could keep DD as their police connection but someone who works w/the team on and off (they can say she does vigilante stuff on her own and only helps when needed), as for Curtis I don't know. Honestly, I just want him out of Felicity's company. EBR said she thinks the Smoak Tech name will eventually happen, hopefully she said that because there's a plan for it. 

Also, I hope that cheap liquor gives them diarrhea. 

Edited by JJ928
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Rene was slowly growing on me until 609 and his whole attitude problem with Oliver not instantly trusting him after HE SOLD HIM OUT. WTF, Rene. But I'd gladly wave bye bye to Curtis and Dinah. I'm not Curtis levels of hatred with Dinah yet but she annoys me a lot. Even her pissy glaring in that one promo pic bugs me. Dial it back, ffs! Everything is dialled up to maximum intensity with her even when the scene doesn't call for it. (It's a shame because the team does need more than one woman but I don't like how they've written her this season at all. Not to mention the interchangeable Canaries thing really bugs me but probably always will.)

Sadly, I don't think any of the newbies will leave, even though they should. This show just doesn't handle a large ensemble well at all and probably never will but we're stuck with them.

Edited by Angel12d
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53 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I hate that shot of the newbies drinking to their new team. Plus they seem to have taken over the old Helix bunker which bugs me for some reason. 

That bugs me too. And it's unbelievably stupid considering one of the bad guys they're up against is the founder of Helix. The chances of that place not being bugged are so remote they may as well just send Cayden James their plans. 

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I have my doubts that anyone on Team Noobs won't rejoin since the only person who died on Lian Yu is Samantha.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Oliver says they have to take Rene back because he's less of a danger to the city if he's on their Team rather than on his own.

When I saw the picture of Vigilante sitting at the table, I thought it was a toy train set he was playing with.  I think Vigilante and Cayden James playing train sets would be more interesting than what they seem to be setting up.

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 While Rene's attitude is bothering me again, I'd still take him over S5/S6 Curtis. Partly because I still don't know what Curtis brings to the field other than his T-spheres that anyone could probably use?

Other people can use them but he's the one who is inventing new things for them, or adjusting them to help Diggle's injury. Basically he's Cisco before he became The Vibe. I think there's room for Curtis on the team as long as they dial the OTTness back.  As they need to do for all three of NTA.

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I'll take Curtis and Dinah over the betrayer.  Curtis and Dinah have been annoying but Rene has proved he can't be trusted.  How can you come back from that?  Why would you even bother giving him another another chance?

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Rene looks super remorseful starring smug pissy daggers at Oliver. He's clearly done his penance amIrite? 

Dinah also is starting smug pissy daggers but that's cause the wind changed and her face got stuck that way a long time ago. 

 

When it it comes to choosing Rene/Dinah over Curtis it's a toss up for me. I could happily lose them all for more Thea Lance and a return of Roy. The newbies can hit the road along with like pretty much all Team Villian. 

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5 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Rene was slowly growing on me until 609 and his whole attitude problem with Oliver not instantly trusting him after HE SOLD HIM OUT. WTF, Rene. But I'd gladly wave bye bye to Curtis and Dinah. I'm not Curtis levels of hatred with Dinah yet but she annoys me a lot. Even her pissy glaring in that one promo pic bugs me. Dial it back, ffs! Everything is dialled up to maximum intensity with her even when the scene doesn't call for it. (It's a shame because the team does need more than one woman but I don't like how they've written her this season at all. Not to mention the interchangeable Canaries thing really bugs me but probably always will.)

Sadly, I don't think any of the newbies will leave, even though they should. This show just doesn't handle a large ensemble well at all and probably never will but we're stuck with them.

Preach. She makes such a wonderful pair with Vigilante and the emo vibe he’s giving off. 

Was I scrolling through pics without OTA too fast or is there no Dick Dragon there?

i wonder if Rene still works at the City Hall. Just because Thea is there so maybe she can slap him around for a bit. Sure, she was a cool head in the last episode, but I still feel she’d be beyond pissed at him for doing what he did, only not expressing it in front of Oliver.

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13 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The bad: The newbies toasting. The newbies in general. The fact that Vigilante sitting there with all those weapons/ammo screams "he's totally a villain, it makes total sense he's working with villains, don't question it, look at all those weapons!" 

Also the fact that even with picture, and the name of the character and actor underneath, I still said aloud "Who is that? Is that the random villain they threw in to Team Villain to fill up a spot?"

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10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Since they released promos for Supergirl (and I think The Flash), does it mean we can expect one for Arrow today? 

I think you know the answer to that.

Jk, although tbh I would have thought that Arrow's promo and the episode descriptions would have come out last night since it was Thursday and Arrow was on. I know they've released the descriptions on Friday before as well so I'm guessing those will still be out, but as for the Arrow promo, I'm not sure (then again that Supergirl promo came out of nowhere so who knows?)

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