Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

I mean, it's at least 4-5 sentences but ok.

[Cleanqueen]

9 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

To be fair...that doesn't sound so much like a speech but rather...a line. 

she says way more than just a line. 

[wingster55]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

They wouldn't put the entirety of a speech in a promo, so it could be either.

Fair. Though I can't imagine there would be more to it.

 

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

I mean, it's at least 4-5 sentences but ok.

Just 2-3. Still not a speech. Plus considering it's to the Nazis I would say it's a threat like statement. 

Oliver's little rally the troops seems more like a speech that has more to it. 

[Primal Slayer]

They better explain how Oliver got kryptonite. Unless Krypton has already exploded and Clark or Kara are on E1, there should be none on E1.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Only the actual episodes I guess would explain why the heck they felt they needed to tell a Nazi love story.

I have the sneaking suspicion they just wanted a crackship thing with two lead characters in the x-over. Which, in itself, fine, I don`t mind alternate universes being used to explore stuff like that. But in that case, why not make them both undercover part of the resistance? Why did it have to be a Nazi love story per se?  

[leopardprint]

47 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I have the sneaking suspicion they just wanted a crackship thing with two lead characters in the x-over. Which, in itself, fine, I don`t mind alternate universes being used to explore stuff like that. But in that case, why not make them both undercover part of the resistance? Why did it have to be a Nazi love story per se?  

I think a romance for The Ray amongst the resistance fighters would have been way more interesting/compelling they really wanted to feature an alternate romance. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by leopardprint

[Simba122504]

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Are they?

Yep. No matter what earth, Iris and Barry will always be a thing. I think it's lame but that's what was said on TF. 

[Mellowyellow]

So Felicity vs Dark Arrow

I wonder if that's just the speech or if she clobbers him for a bit before she gets rescued.

Hehe looks like my Ray gets to shine a bit in the LoT part. You go with your super shrinking suit sweetheart!!!!!!!!

Edited November 23, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I think a romance for The Ray amongst the resistance fighters would have been way more interesting/compelling they really wanted to feature an alternate romance. 

I don`t disagree but I think they specifically wanted something with leads from the four shows. And since Barry is the one whose wedding is prominently featured and who is supposed to be a thing with Iris on every Earth, he is out. Otherwise, I would have giggled seeing him and Oliver together in a Oscar/Felix-like relationship. 

Also, Barry and Kara are already cutesy-alike. Likewise, Sara and Oliver already were an item. Sara and Kara could work. But they are doing Sara/Alex instead. So, that leaves a Oliver/Kara crackship thing. Unfortunately, since they made them real Nazis, it will be a Nazi love story. The latter part makes me groan.

Basically, if that was their goal, a crackship among leads, then I would have done it in another x-over/multiverse and NOT mixed it with the Nazi story. Or at the very least not made it "young Nazis in love". Sigh.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Otherwise, I would have giggled seeing him and Oliver together in a Oscar/Felix-like relationship. 

That would have been great!

[leopardprint]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Basically, if that was their goal, a crackship among leads, then I would have done it in another x-over/multiverse and NOT mixed it with the Nazi story. Or at the very least not made it "young Nazis in love". Sigh.

Yes, it's odd that they are using romantic elements to drive that storyline. Like, they are Nazis, I am not going to care about them regardless of how sad Nazi Oliver would be if Nazi Kara exploded. As far as I am concerned, they should all explode. They must have really wanted that good guys in love vs evil guys in love contrast but it really didn't have to be with Nazis. 

[Mellowyellow]

Two words........pantry moth

They are consistent I'll give them that. 

Lol I swear I watch these shows with an automatic editor in my head to edit out all the shady sh@t they write. 

 On another note it's killing me not knowing won makes the "Felicity is the only girl for Oliver" speech. 

[Aeryn13]

It`s too bad. The fake-spoiler person might have been motivated by ship-hatred but their writing was actually better than what the show probably is. The Nazi love story just being a ruse and the true (tragic) love story lining up with the Prime Earth love story and thus giving a compelling motivation for the still alive couple to seize the day would have made so much sense. 

At this point, I`m not sure why Felicity changes her mind about marriage. Like, will she be moved about Dark Oliver`s sadness about Dark Kara? I don`t think so. Wouldn`t seeing a Nazi version of Oliver, one even threatening her make her a bit squeamish even? Usually, such a story progression would be used to change a character`s mind away from marriage, to at least delay it. 

I`m... just at a loss how that lines up emotionally. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Aeryn13

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

 On another note it's killing me not knowing won makes the "Felicity is the only girl for Oliver" speech. 

I'm assuming Oliver, because that would at least fit with WM's comments, considering everything else sounds like Felicity's the one going on the journey WM said Oliver was. 

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I'm assuming Oliver, because that would at least fit with WM's comments, considering everything else sounds like Felicity's the one going on the journey WM said Oliver was. 

Is this where the "You're my star" comes in?

@Aeryn13 Felicity seems pretty consistent in her separation of dopplegangers (her attitude to BS) so I don't think she'll be squeamish. I'm leaning more on the Nazis telling her they've shot all her friends and her Oliver to motivate her to get married as she probably goes through a moment where she thought she'd never see him again. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[tangerine95]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It`s too bad. The fake-spoiler person might have been motivated by ship-hatred but their writing was actually better than what the show probably is. The Nazi love story just being a ruse and the true (tragic) love story lining up with the Prime Earth love story and thus giving a compelling motivation for the still alive couple to seize the day would have made so much sense. 

At this point, I`m not sure why Felicity changes her mind about marriage. Like, will she be moved about Dark Oliver`s sadness about Dark Kara? I don`t think so. Wouldn`t seeing a Nazi version of Oliver, one even threatening her make her a bit squeamish even? Usually, such a story progression would be used to change a character`s mind away from marriage, to at least delay it. 

I`m... just at a loss how that lines up emotionally. 

Same,you'd think if they would do a love story at all with the earth X versions it would be something to connect to the actual couples getting married in the episode not a totally random paring that is completely out of nowhere and the only reaction it could get from the E1 characters is like wtf and eww lol.But since they made them nazis it does make it difficult to do with Oliver and Felicity unless Oliver is undercover and not a nazi which also would have made more sense imo because it allows for the love story to make sense and affect E1 Oliver.I really have no idea how this dark love story is supposed to be relevant at all or affect Oliver or Felicity.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, wingster55 said:

Fair. Though I can't imagine there would be more to it.

 

Just 2-3. Still not a speech. Plus considering it's to the Nazis I would say it's a threat like statement. 

Oliver's little rally the troops seems more like a speech that has more to it. 

Ohhh kay. Felicity's words are as impactful as Oliver's. It doesn't have to be the Gettysburg Address to be important.

[apinknightmare]

24 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

At this point, I`m not sure why Felicity changes her mind about marriage. Like, will she be moved about Dark Oliver`s sadness about Dark Kara? I don`t think so. Wouldn`t seeing a Nazi version of Oliver, one even threatening her make her a bit squeamish even? Usually, such a story progression would be used to change a character`s mind away from marriage, to at least delay it. 

I'm guessing it's covered somewhere in the "a lot of relationship talks" and "Olicity scenes" that the OP completely skipped over because he obviously hates it so much, haha.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I'm guessing it's covered somewhere in the "a lot of relationship talks" and "Olicity scenes" that the OP completely skipped over because he obviously hates it so much, haha.

I`m feeling a bit sad now. I was actually looking forward to the x-over - I liked last year`s well enough - and the wedding and everything. But now with the fake grudge spoilers I like better than the real spoilers, it takes some of the excitement out of it. Because now I want to see the other version onscreen. Sigh. And I`m not a "they need to be together on every Earth" person.  

Oh well, hopefully all those talks and scenes this poster skipped out of ship-hate will still make it worthwhile. 

[bijoux]

No sneaks for tonight’s episode? At least their intern got Thanksgiving off.

[LeighAn]

Okay the Crossover spoilers sound credible but don't we have photos of Felicity hugging Oliver in  NaziOlivers suit- so where is that in these spoilers? 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Okay the Crossover spoilers sound credible but don't we have photos of Felicity hugging Oliver in  NaziOlivers suit- so where is that in these spoilers? 

That looked like GA's green suit to me

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Okay the Crossover spoilers sound credible but don't we have photos of Felicity hugging Oliver in  NaziOlivers suit- so where is that in these spoilers? 

I thought it was Oliver in his GA suit with Earth-X Oliver's quiver.

[lemotomato]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I thought it was Oliver in his GA suit with Earth-X Oliver's quiver.

That would make the most sense. The arrows definitely had red fletching, but it wasn't clear what color the suit was. 

[Cleanqueen]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

At this point, I`m not sure why Felicity changes her mind about marriage. Like, will she be moved about Dark Oliver`s sadness about Dark Kara? I don`t think so. Wouldn`t seeing a Nazi version of Oliver, one even threatening her make her a bit squeamish even? Usually, such a story progression would be used to change a character`s mind away from marriage, to at least delay it. 

 

Felicity is probably waiting for the right time because she's afraid of whatever happened the last time she waited...but soon finds out that if she believes Oliver to be the man she wants to with then there isn't a right time there's just now. I think at some point they'll probably both think the other is almost dead so that we'll change her perspective on things. And seeing her friends take the plunge might also convince her to not be so scared either.

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I thought it was Oliver in his GA suit with Earth-X Oliver's quiver.

His suit looks Black to me but I don't know

 

Going through the crossover pics to find this there is a lot of pics that don't add up to the spoilers Reddit dude is giving imo 

 

Im going to remain sceptical for the time being because Reddit.  

[Cleanqueen]

I think production probably forgot to switch the quivers LOOOL

[bijoux]

I still believve that's our Oliver infiltrating as Evil Oliver.

[Balaclava]

It's not black, same suit and quiver in this pic. Dark Oliver suit has red lining even in the shoulder pads 

[leopardprint]

Unless they remembered to switch the arrows but not the quivers, maybe that is Prometheus' quiver? GA has green arrows (he-yo), Dark Arrow has red ones, so who has black ones? 

[Angel12d]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

It`s too bad. The fake-spoiler person might have been motivated by ship-hatred but their writing was actually better than what the show probably is. The Nazi love story just being a ruse and the true (tragic) love story lining up with the Prime Earth love story and thus giving a compelling motivation for the still alive couple to seize the day would have made so much sense. 

At this point, I`m not sure why Felicity changes her mind about marriage. Like, will she be moved about Dark Oliver`s sadness about Dark Kara? I don`t think so. Wouldn`t seeing a Nazi version of Oliver, one even threatening her make her a bit squeamish even? Usually, such a story progression would be used to change a character`s mind away from marriage, to at least delay it. 

I`m... just at a loss how that lines up emotionally. 

This is my whole issue. Aside from the whole Nazi thing which...gross. What's the narrative reason to have two Nazis in love? What does it add to the story? If it doesn't affect the main E1 characters, what's even the point of it? Honestly, it really does sound like they just want to give reddit their nasty little crackship which, again, gross. 

From the sounds of those spoilers, the whole thing could essentially be the same without the nasty Nazi love story. *Shudders*

[Mellowyellow]

They probably want to give Reddit something to get their kicks from to make up for the Olicity wedding but can't use Laurel/BS because last year didn't go so well so they settled on a nazi love story. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

23 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

They probably want to give Reddit something to get their kicks from to make up for the Olicity wedding but can't use Laurel/BS because last year didn't go so well so they settled on a nazi love story. 

I really can't imagine show runners from any show planning their episodes and going let's give Reddit or Twitter something, not for major stuff like this. Maybe a nod here and there. But not this. I think they wanted a Nazi love story because they are idiots and they think it would be "fun," plain and simple. It's something from the comics, and these are comic fanboys at heart. Didn't Kreisberg or Guggenheim say something about doing this for the 10-year-old boy in them or something like that?  

[Buzzyspirit]

So, after all these spoilers, should we consider that photo of XFelicity grave as fake? If not fake how does it fit with the 2 episodes descriptions? If it shows in the Flash part why is it important? Any ideas?

[insomniadreams88]

I just want to know that there was someone, anyone, who went, "hmm, maybe doing a Nazi love story isn't the best idea." Just tell me there's someone working on one of those four shows who realized how horrible this sounds. 

[Primal Slayer]

If it is real, it doesnt necessarily mean its important. It could just be a quick montage of E-X doppelgangers dying to show how serious the threat is.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm actually curious that we haven't heard anything from the EPs about the crossover. I know one is suspended but where are the others hiding?

Are they going to leave it to the entertainment journalists to say nice things about it?

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm actually curious that we haven't heard anything from the EPs about the crossover. I know one is suspended but where are the others hiding?

Are they going to leave it to the entertainment journalists to say nice things about it?

Maybe waiting until this weeks Arrow airs? Probably because of the suspension. 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, leopardprint said:

Maybe waiting until this weeks Arrow airs? Probably because of the suspension. 

It's a big public holiday for you guys today but then it's the weekend.

I dunno! It's so weird! Maybe the suspension plus nazi love story is making them all go into hiding since what seemed like a good idea is now not so bright!

They don't seem to be getting media backlash on the nazi theme so it's weird all the EPs seem to have vanished! 

[Buzzyspirit]

11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If it is real, it doesnt necessarily mean its important. It could just be a quick montage of E-X doppelgangers dying to show how serious the threat is.

Oh if it's true it is important or else it would be just some line in dialogue. XFelicity is not a mask (or is she? Wild thought maybe she is Black Canary in E-X) anyway if they show a grave it means she somehow had a heroic story in E-X meaning in every Earth she is a hero. Again if it's true maybe E1 Oliver learns her story. In a world where everyone's doppelgänger is evil (even Tommy) XFelicity is the one that always remain good and a true hero. In a 4 hour show full of N/zis I would like to at least have this.

[LeighAn]

44 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I really can't imagine show runners from any show planning their episodes and going let's give Reddit or Twitter something, not for major stuff like this. Maybe a nod here and there. But not this. I think they wanted a Nazi love story because they are idiots and they think it would be "fun," plain and simple. It's something from the comics, and these are comic fanboys at heart. Didn't Kreisberg or Guggenheim say something about doing this for the 10-year-old boy in them or something like that?  

If the ten year old boy in them wanted to humanise Nazis then the ten year old boy in them was freaking gross. And well Kreisberg is freaking gross anyway so good to know it started at childhood. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

They better explain how Oliver got kryptonite. Unless Krypton has already exploded and Clark or Kara are on E1, there should be none on E1.

No reason to think Clark or Kara couldn't be somewhere on the planet, just not yet public.  I mean, Kara traditionally is in stasis for a while anyway so it's just Clark out there in hiding.  

 

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I just want to know that there was someone, anyone, who went, "hmm, maybe doing a Nazi love story isn't the best idea." Just tell me there's someone working on one of those four shows who realized how horrible this sounds. 

But it got approved!  Lol.  

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

It's a big public holiday for you guys today but then it's the weekend.

I dunno! It's so weird! Maybe the suspension plus nazi love story is making them all go into hiding since what seemed like a good idea is now not so bright!

They don't seem to be getting media backlash on the nazi theme so it's weird all the EPs seem to have vanished! 

Yeah, I tend to think they are clueless about anything the matter with the Nazi love story but that there is probably a lot of behind the scenes stuff pushing the full on PR push about the crossover back.  Still, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bunch of interviews released Friday or on the weekend.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

53 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

But it got approved!  Lol.  

I wonder now if the subtext of this is not "it got approved (by Jewish men)!" Like, if Kreisberg and Guggenheim were the ones who advocated for it, then there must be nothing wrong at all. Obviously, that's not true. But I can see this being the thinking. 

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I wonder now if the subtext of this is not "it got approved (by Jewish men)!" Like, if Kreisberg and Guggenheim were the ones who advocated for it, then there must be nothing wrong at all. Obviously, that's not true. But I can see this being the thinking. 

Is Guggenheim Jewish? I've heard before that they have Beth Schwartz go over the Jewish elements with EBR when they have them in the show. 

They also had those incredibly tone deaf jokes about the female characters' measurements on The Flash the week after AK was suspended so sometimes I really wonder about these people. 

[apinknightmare]

I think SA was referring to the episodes getting approved by network Standards and Practices, not the EPs. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by apinknightmare

[SmallScreenDiva]

46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think SA was referring to the episodes getting approved by network Standards and Practices, not the EPs. 

Oh, I totally got that ... but I wondered if there was also this underlying "well, my Jewish bosses seem OK with it" kind of thinking when he said it got approved.

51 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Is Guggenheim Jewish?

He said he was raised Jewish in this Futon Critic interview. And Times of Israel identifies Kreisberg as Jewish in a story about the sexual harassment allegations.

[Soulfire]

[bijoux]

I can’t speak of Iris, but does Felicity really qualify as keeping getting kidnapped? I can think of four villains that took her. Slade - part of a set up, and she played a crucial role in taking him down; Cooper - she practically dealt with him herself; and DD and Chase who also took other people, so it’s not like Felicity got herself into trouble. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

I can’t speak of Iris, but does Felicity really qualify as keeping getting kidnapped?

I had the same thought.  The only other one I can think of is Count Vertigo in season 2.   And I would not count Slade since that was a set-up as you pointed out. 

[statsgirl]

I think Count Vertigo counts as a capture rather than a kidnapping.  He didn't set out to take her; she wandered in by herself.