Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Belinea]

2 minutes ago, tv echo said:

we suggest the producers take a closer look at either the new Black Canary or Black Siren, especially if the latter is able to find redemption.

I truly cannot stretch how much people annoy me that want Oliver to hook up with Laurel 2.0. It irritates me so much. 

[tangerine95]

Digg was my first guess but Felicity might actually make more sense in the situation because she has insight into how someone who had an absent parent show up would feel and even tho her dad didn't die he still completely disappeared from her life and she had her life changed at a young age because of it like William's will with Samantha probably dying so she can help him see things from the kid's perspective.Ugh I hate that whole thing so much lol

I think the only reason they're even questioning if BS can be redeemed is because they have to have her sticking around and it's an excuse for why the team will go easy on her.I hope Felicity keeps her attitude from season 5 regarding BS because she was the only one showing sense in that whole thing.But I agree,if she gets redeemed she's getting sent away imo.

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Last year, we saw that dead horse show some movement in a few of the latter episodes, causing real concern for the future. After all, why would you want to repeat past mistakes when you’ve just won back the favor of your fan base with a stellar season?

Did these pumpkins not see the ratings for S5???????

[LeighAn]

Arrow writers:

 

Comic Fans/Websites:

"Oliver and Laurel are destiny!"

Arrow writers:

Comic fans/website: 

"Olicity is over- He's going to hook up with Black Canary 2.0"

Arrow writers:

 

 

 

Comic fans/websites:

"Maybe Oliver will realise his true love is with redeemed Black Siren or Black Canary- isn't it time?"

 

Arrow writers:

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Our better judgment says she’s talking about “Olicity,” but, again, why would you shoot yourself in the foot right after the last cast just came off? If Oliver is to be romantically paired with anyone, we suggest the producers take a closer look at either the new Black Canary or Black Siren, especially if the latter is able to find redemption.

I literally burst out laughing at this. Like, sorry, I see your not so veiled attempt at Because Comics and resurrecting Lauriver via BS. And sorry but Oliver and Felicity have already been a CANON couple in the show who were engaged to be married and who clearly still have feelings for each other. Felicity kissed Oliver and he did not reject that kiss in 5.23.  But keep banging that drum if it makes them happy. I'll just be over here, enjoying all the Olicity sex in various positions that we know they already do and watch them be willing to die for each other and save the world together.  Oh and get married.

[Cleanqueen]

Come mid season I cant wait for all the reviewers who will just get tired and annoyed with BS and start questioning what her purpose is even anymore. We all know she isn't a big bad.

[Mellowyellow]

oh @LeighAn so so so true! I honestly don't think there is anymore they can do. Not to mention all the more subtle stuff like her wanting to carry his burden in 519 and her inspiring him to put on his GA suit again.

Like I've said before, even if one day when there are a troop of Olicitots running around with William keeping an eye on them while Olicity look on, comic fans/websites will still be like "Oliver will realise he loves BS/BC when those kids go to college!!!!!"

[LeighAn]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

oh @LeighAn so so so true! I honestly don't think there is anymore they can do. Not to mention all the more subtle stuff like her wanting to carry his burden in 519 and her inspiring him to put on his GA suit again.

Like I've said before, even if one day when there are a troop of Olicitots running around with William keeping an eye on them while Olicity look on, comic fans/websites will still be like "Oliver will realise he loves BS/BC when those kids go to college!!!!!"

Yep they will use the LOST finale- "there's still a chance Oliver and Laurel can be endgame in the afterlife!" 

[Guest]

I just figured Oliver will have a few scenes with the other fathers on the show - Diggle, Lance and even Rene.

But I'm not getting a good feeling about this idea that William will be giving Oliver the run around. This makes me feel like he'll be on screen more than I thought. Yikes. 

 

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Perhaps the wedding of Barry and Iris will finally convince Oliver and Felicity that it's time for them to tie the knot too. 

However, that doesn't really fit with Mericle's assertion that what Oliver learns in the crossover will be surprising. If Oliver is going to learn something shocking about true love, it would be strange if that revolved around Felicity since the pair's tumultuous relationship has been front and center on Arrow for three seasons. Anything about Oliver and Felicity getting back together isn't surprising, it's expected. 
*  *  *
So, there's a chance that the crossover will introduce a romance with Oliver more in-line with the comics. Seeing Oliver start something new with the new Black Canary, Dinah Drake (who is confirmed to appear in the crossover) or even Earth-2 Laurel Lance, Black Siren. There's been hints of chemistry between Oliver and them since the characters' introduction.

I agree that Olicity is not surprising but this is WM talking. She thinks everything will be a shock to viewers, which is especially hilarious when we literally predict 99% of things that happen on the show. Haha. 

And where were these hints of chemistry this dude is talking about? I am confusion. I swear some fans just see what they want to see simply because comics.

Also, I'm not sure why some think Oliver learns his true love is someone who is not Felicity...when the guy is actually marrying her. I guess not everyone knows about those 2nd wedding spoilers then?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

The only reason people are bringing up Dinah as a LI is her name and she’s BC. If she left and someone new came in as BC, suddenly they’d ship her with Oliver. Feelings obviously don’t matter. Just whatever woman is going around as BC at the time. A relationship does not go along with the name. Imagine if on the show, they went, “so, you want to come help the team as our new BC? But you also have to date this man you’ve never met. Why? Uh...”

And seriously, NO ONE would be talking about BS if she was just some random villain not played by KC. There would be no calls for redemption. 

[Guest]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

The only reason people are bringing up Dinah as a LI is her name and she’s BC. If she left and someone new came in as BC, suddenly they’d ship her with Oliver. Feelings obviously don’t matter. Just whatever woman is going around as BC at the time. A relationship does not go along with the name. Imagine if on the show, they went, “so, you want to come help the team as our new BC? But you also have to date this man you’ve never met. Why? Uh...”

This is why it's so gross. Women are completely interchangeable. Any vagina will do for GA apparently, as long as she's called BC! ? ? ?

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The only reason people are bringing up Dinah as a LI is her name and she’s BC. If she left and someone new came in as BC, suddenly they’d ship her with Oliver. Feelings obviously don’t matter. Just whatever woman is going around as BC at the time. A relationship does not go along with the name. Imagine if on the show, they went, “so, you want to come help the team as our new BC? But you also have to date this man you’ve never met. Why? Uh...”

And seriously, NO ONE would be talking about BS if she was just some random villain not played by KC. There would be no calls for redemption. 

Imagine if the show revealed that really Felicity Smoak was always THE Black Canary but she went into deep hiding for ....reasons. Then we'd see just how much Black Canary mattered to Green Arrow vs Laurel Lance/KC. 

[Featherhat]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The only reason people are bringing up Dinah as a LI is her name and she’s BC. If she left and someone new came in as BC, suddenly they’d ship her with Oliver. Feelings obviously don’t matter. Just whatever woman is going around as BC at the time. A relationship does not go along with the name. Imagine if on the show, they went, “so, you want to come help the team as our new BC? But you also have to date this man you’ve never met. Why? Uh...”

And seriously, NO ONE would be talking about BS if she was just some random villain not played by KC. There would be no calls for redemption. 

Yeah, doesn't matter about anything else, only that she has a comics canon name and outfit. Or BS because she looks like E1 LL. Seriously I didn't like LL as a character at all but I am grossed out on her behalf that Oliver could find love with a Redeemed!BS "hey it's not enough that he slept with your sister, he's found "true love" with someone who looks like you but isn't you and forgot you existed!" Or got together with someone who is SWF you the way you did to Sara and has your mother's name (and hey might be revealed as your cousin for all we know). If Felicity died I wouldn't want Oliver to find new love with someone called e.g. "Megan Kuttler" or E whatever!Felicity played by EBR, they wouldn't be interchangeable. 

And the quotes don't mean Oliver is going to find a surprising love interest, it's how/who from he learns is supposedly surprising, leading up to the totally shocking! Twist! of a double wedding that no one knows about, really they don't. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Featherhat

[Guest]

Quote

After all, why would you want to repeat past mistakes when you’ve just won back the favor of your fan base with a stellar season?

I really resent some comic book fans assuming they're the only part of the fanbase. It drives me nuts. It's like this really gross misogynistic thought that comic books are somehow "theirs" and no one else is allowed to enjoy it. 

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I really resent some comic book fans assuming they're the only part of the fanbase. It drives me nuts. It's like this really gross misogynistic thought that comic books are somehow "theirs" and no one else is allowed to enjoy it. 

Yep that's not even just an Arrow specific problem but a problem with the genre as a whole. They treat it like a boys only frat club. And the female characters they praise are thin in character development male idealised fantasies of "strong women" as a result. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Nah, you have Michael Emerson on the show and you make Katie Cassidy the Big Bad? I mean, I'd even take Acevedo over her. At least I know he can do menacing. But KC? With her immovable face and drunken walk as the Big Bad? Mericle is just hedging as always. It's not like she can just say they have no real plans for KC other than for her to be a nuisance of a villain.

And I'm with @JJ928, I'd rather have a non-meta villain on Arrow. I'd rather have Arrow power and meta-free across the board, really. 

[insomniadreams88]

Imagine this nearly impossible scenario: a redeemed BS is BC and is BC for about a year. Then E1 LL is resurrected or pulled from another point in time. Who would the comic book fans think is the rightful BC? They’d probably cast aside BS in a second and suddenly start declaring her a villain who never had any right to the title. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

26 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

 

 

I agree that Olicity is not surprising but this is WM talking. She thinks everything will be a shock to viewers, which is especially hilarious when we literally predict 99% of things that happen on the show. Haha. 

 

In this instance though it's not even her fault because she talked about a surprise in reference to the lesson he learns, the way he does that and the person he learns that from. The fact that they think it might mean he will suddenly be in love with a random person for no reason is on them. It's an instance of seeing what they want to see.

[leopardprint]

Do you think if Laurel's mom Dinah Lance decided to take up her feathers in her honor,  the GA + BC = Tru Luv 4 Eva would want Oliver to be with Laurel's mom? 

As far as Felicity bonding with William, she also was taken away by her mother for safety reasons. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

6 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

As far as Felicity bonding with William, she also was taken away by her mother for safety reasons. 

Myson and Felicity do have a lot in common. I wonder if the writers will remember that. 

[Cleanqueen]

I know it hasn't really  been shown, but maybe the reason William has odd social skills could be due to the fact that he too is a genius, it would totally give him and Felicity something to bond over.

[leopardprint]

11 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Myson and Felicity do have a lot in common. I wonder if the writers will remember that. 

You take that back! 

Edited October 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

26 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

You take that back! 

LMAO! What? They both grew up without their fathers. They apparently both think their dads are "bad men," if the promo is to be believed. They grew up with their moms. Granted, Donna had to work long hours in heels while Samantha had about a $1 million to help her send Myson to Space Camp, if he were so inclined. They were both taken away from their dads "for their own good," although Myson and Felicity don't know that part. I'm just saying, there's a lot to bond over ... IF the writers actually make use of it. 

[Guest]

They probably won't make use of it, even though they should. 

I mean, the whole similarity could've been used to give Olicity some angst and even cause their break-up in an in-character, less infuriating way than it originally happened. Oliver could've found out about William and decided he would stay away for his own safety and Felicity could've disagreed with that because she, too, grew up without her dad and knows how William must've felt. It was like the most perfect set-up and they squandered it. I expect them to continue to do the same, although part of me always has some modicum of hope that they'll be different. Sigh.

[tofutan]

Oliver dealing with a son is something that always sounds like an actually interesting concept in my head. But then I remember that it means child actors. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by tofutan

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, LeighAn said:

 

Having said that I love the "there's been chemistry between Black Siren and Oliver since she appeared on screen" yep soo much chemistry. Like that one time she tried to kill him, or that other time he locked her up in a cage, or that time she tried to kill him and Felicity, and also that time she kidnapped all his loved ones or even that time she kidnapped his son and threatened to kill him... 

I honestly think there have been couples in comparable situations with mad chemistry, where you'd be screaming, Chew through those bars and screw silly. It's just that SA and KC never have been and never will be one of them.

[tv echo]

3 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

I know it hasn't really  been shown, but maybe the reason William has odd social skills could be due to the fact that he too is a genius, it would totally give him and Felicity something to bond over.

His parents are Oliver Queen and Samantha Clayton. Genetics are not in his favor.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

His parents are Oliver Queen and Samantha Clayton. Genetics are not in his favor.

I forget was there a paternity test that proves he's Oliver's spawn?

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I forget was there a paternity test that proves he's Oliver's spawn?

Barry did it in S4/S2 crossover.

[Cleanqueen]

21 minutes ago, tv echo said:

His parents are Oliver Queen and Samantha Clayton. Genetics are not in his favor.

LOL while true there are kids who turn out geniuses while having not so bright parents.

[catrox14]

Just now, bijoux said:

Barry did it in S4/S2 crossover.

OH that's right. I forgot. Thanks!

[tv echo]

In 408, Oliver stole a hair strand from William's cap(*) and gave it to Barry to do a DNA test. Barry gene-sequenced the hair strand with a blood sample given to him by Oliver, and found that the Y chromosomes matched. Felicity caught Barry with the DNA test results and got him to show it to her. She recognized Oliver's DNA sequence and confronted Oliver about the paternity test. Then Barry time-travelled back, erasing this Olicity scene (among other things) so that Felicity remained ignorant of the paternity test and stupid Oliver then decided to keep William a secret. BMD ensued to ruin the rest of S4.

(* In my hopeful head canon back then, Samantha was in cahoots with Prometheus and planted the hair strands in William's cap, knowing Oliver would take it. And William was not Oliver's son. Just part of Adrian Chase's convoluted plan to drive Oliver to the brink.)

Edited October 6, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

WM in HR article over on the Spoilers board says they are bringing in a surprise female villain? I understand that to mean not the FBI agent or BS. Does Black Canary have any comic book villains it could be? 

[LeighAn]

Hopefully here comes Olicity wedding pics :)

[catrox14]

55 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In 408, Oliver stole a hair strand from William's cap(*) and gave it to Barry to do a DNA test. Barry gene-sequenced the hair strand with a blood sample given to him by Oliver, and found that the Y chromosomes matched. Felicity caught Barry with the DNA test results and got him to show it to her. She recognized Oliver's DNA sequence and confronted Oliver about the paternity test. Then Barry time-travelled back, erasing this Olicity scene (among other things) so that Felicity remained ignorant of the paternity test and stupid Oliver then decided to keep William a secret. BMD ensued to ruin the rest of S4.

(* In my hopeful head canon back then, Samantha was in cahoots with Prometheus and planted the hair strands in William's cap, knowing Oliver would take it. And William was not Oliver's son. Just part of Adrian Chase's convoluted plan to drive Oliver to the brink.)

OMG how could I have forgotten that whole stupid thing. I think I just repressed that awful thing LOL

[Soulfire]

Arrow 603 description --

Quote

DC CHARACTER ONYX VISITS STAR CITY — A rogue black ops team led by Onyx (guest star Chastity Dotson) breaks into Kord Industries and steals something lethal. Oliver (Stephen Amell) struggles to connect with William (guest star Jack Moore) so he reaches out to a surprising source for help. Kevin Tancharoen directed the episode written by Speed Weed & Oscar Balderrama (#603).  Original airdate 10/26/2017.

[Belinea]

Could that source be Slade? If he reaches out to Quentin, I won’t be that surprised. 

Also, I am torn on the one hand I want wedding scoop and on the other hand I want to be surprised. I can’t decide. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Belinea

[way2interested]

So I'm guessing this is the female villain WM was talking about

Just now, Belinea said:

Could that source be Slade? 

I don't think so, since his episode isn't until 605. At this point any source is "surprising" from CW since everyone else is supposed to be dead.

[Guest]

Is Onyx the female villain that WM was talking about? I like the sound of that. Also very happy to see more POC on the show. 

As for the surprising source? I doubt it will be a surprise. Maybe Rene or Slade? IDK. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Guest

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, Belinea said:

 

Also, I am torn on the one hand I want wedding scoop and on the other hand I want to be surprised. I can’t decide. 

1

I think I'm at the point of needing to back off on some of the spoilers.  I know better than to think I'm not going to check the Spoilers Only thread everyday but I probably will stop following the links to pictures and special behind the scenes stuff.  Normally this is the time I'd also stop reading interviews for a while but with the embargo on talking about characters that "might" be dead, I feel like I really can't do that yet.  

[leopardprint]

Ok but Slade has been out of his kid's life for at least 10 years? What possible advice could he give? Like the perspective of a man who also killed someone's mother? 

Edited October 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[insomniadreams88]

I just hope they wait until next Friday for the 604 description so they can actually mention other characters. 

[Cleanqueen]

it would be surprising if Oliver turns to Felicity(not for us of course) for help...I do remember that comment Stephen about her being really good at math.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

As for the surprising source? I doubt it will be a surprise. Maybe Rene or Slade? IDK. 

They're both absentee fathers who as of 603 haven't even reunited with their kids. Oliver's dumb, but he's not that dumb.

Edited October 6, 2017 by lemotomato

[catrox14]

I'm calling that Oliver will find a secret video that Robert left behind about being a father. I don't see why Oliver would need advice about fatherhood when by all accounts he had a decent father who was there for his kids until Malcolm sunk the boat. Sure Robert was involved in shady things and Oliver was a douchebag as an older teenager and in college but it didn't seem like Robert and Moira were bad parents.  I don't remember anything about them not being around for their kids. Or am I forgetting some big plot point?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

They're both absentee fathers who as of 603 haven't even reunited with their kids. Oliver's dumb, but he's not that dumb.

Are you sure? ? ?

I mentioned them because Oliver turning to the other dads on the show, Diggle and Lance, is not really surprising, IMO.

[leopardprint]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Or am I forgetting some big plot point?

Oliver's inability to make decisions on his own? 

[catrox14]

22 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Oliver's inability to make decisions on his own? 

 I think Oliver has made plenty of decisions on his own for better or worse.   I also don't think Oliver is the devil or the dumbest bunny on the planet either, so maybe I'm biased to his favor. LOL. So to me if they regress him to being unable to figure out how to parent then I'll just say F the writers on that. 

It's not like he intentionally abandoned his child. That's all on BM and Moira.

[Primal Slayer]

The fact that Ted Kord has been embargoed for 6 years now but NOTHING has been done with the character is crazy.

[Guest]

They're really not hiding the fact that Samantha is dead, are they? I just don't know why they had to kill her off just to force Oliver and William into a father/son relationship.