Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

MG said his reason for not giving Felicity a POV in the gun control episode was to protect the character from backlash. Why on earth would he put her in an even worse position as an All Lives Matter mouthpiece? 

I was exaggerating worst case scenarios. Well, one of them. There are plenty others and more important ones, too.

Also, MG is clueless. (Edit to add, I do not believe he chose not to give Felicity a POV to save her from backlash. He silenced her just so he didn't have to give time to her voice.)

Edited September 8, 2017 by Guest

[statsgirl]

Quentin's old partner, played by "it's that guy" Roger Cross, was killed by someone (Mirakuru soldier?).  Pike was Quentin's superior and spent time coming down on him. I think he was the guy who booted him back to beat cop after The Undertaking bomb defusal.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So which sets do you think they are blowing up?  Bunker I'm sure is safe.  The Loft?  The Police station?  The Hospital? 

It could be the police station. that would be kind of fun.  Or the mayor's office. But since Oliver is getting a new apartment and giving Felicity a key to it, my money's on the Loft.

51 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I feel like this episode will be as successful and well recieved as Kendall Jenners Pepsi commercial.

Interesting trivia:  the Kendall Jenner Pepsi commercial was done entirely in-house at the Pepsi company which may be one of the reasons it's bombed so badly, there was no one from the outside telling them how terrible it was.

Would I prefer MG not do a BLM epside?  Absolutely.  But he's determined to do the kind of PSA episodes he grew up on.  And it's a sad truth that unless the dominant group take note, inequities stay hidden.  Hopefully he learned something from the gun episode.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Holy shit. They're really gonna do the Black Lives Matter episode. I feel sick.

This is just so stupid

[SleepDeprived]

19 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't recall that.  I also can't imagine who it would be connected to her.   Isn't Cooper dead?  Plus he wasn't that athletic.  Otherwise, dad's too old and mom wouldn't be caught dead in basic black without at least a six-inch heel.  And yeah, I don't think Felicity knows anyone else. 

I low-key want Vigilante to be E2 Felicity Smoak. Because wtf at Arrow wasting EBR's amazing athleticism.

 

25 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Also, MG is clueless. (Edit to add, I do not believe he chose not to give Felicity a POV to save her from backlash. He silenced her just so he didn't have to give time to her voice.)

Same, girl. And his further reasoning that he thought of Felicity's paralysis as being due to the villain's villainy and not related to gun violence further proved to me that he had absolutely no intention of actually seriously tackling the issue and just wanted to be seen as a socially conscious/relevant show. He didn't want Felicity's POV because it was unnecessary for his own purposes and he couldn't be arsed to delve into what happened to Felicity as what should've been one of the primary points of that PSA episode.

I hope someone with a better head on their shoulders (come on and try to be useful, Wendy! Beth! Berlanti! Heck, even the Crafts and Services people!) is able to stop Guggenheim from going through with this BLM episode. But with his tendency to be defensive and double down on his terrible ideas, especially when he constantly gets criticism over it on social media, I'm guessing he's already starting the outline for this episode with talking points, counterarguments, and a checklist of nonsensical toeing-the-line bs that leads to nothing and lacks any sort of nuance or sensitivity that a complex issue such as BLM ought to be treated with. *sigh*

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, SleepDeprived said:

I low-key want Vigilante to be E2 Felicity Smoak. Because wtf at Arrow wasting EBR's amazing athleticism.

Haha, that's a great idea! They should have an episode with all their E2 counterparts instead of an ill conceived social justice episode. 

[Featherhat]

10 hours ago, tv echo said:

As a sop to certain segments of the fandom, maybe? Tbc, I don't think it's likely to happen. I'm just throwing out another possibility. I certainly don't care about it.

Thing is I don't think it would end up appeasing any BC/GA 4Eva! elements. They'd just see it as "proof" E1OQ and LL were soul mates and demand E1 LL be resurrected etc. It might be interesting if Vigilante was E2 Oliver but I don't really want them to become overly reliant on the concepts as like the much maligned magic in S4, it doesn't really fit on Arrow, even LOT hasn't really gone into multiverse stuff yet just Flash .

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't recall that.  I also can't imagine who it would be connected to her.   Isn't Cooper dead?  Plus he wasn't that athletic.  Otherwise, dad's too old and mom wouldn't be caught dead in basic black without at least a six-inch heel.  And yeah, I don't think Felicity knows anyone else.    

 Well having it be an E2 (or E3 etc) version of someone she knows/loves would make that work and affect her but again I really hope not.

Ugh on the BLM episode. As with the gun control episode (where mayors have been killed by guns on TV and nothing was really said) I don't think it works in Starling where they have a whole lot of canon violence that cannot really be linked to any racist stereotype. And yeah I fear Dinah and Quentin would get thrown under the bus trying to "explain" it very badly or even worse they'd have Sydelle Noel's Samanda do it. And since everything has to tie back to Oliver in some way, and probably especially (again) Oliver as mayor and Oliver as mayor who is a violent vigilante and used to be a violent mobster who is dealing with his ex "brother" mobster.....ugh.

They'd come at it with good intentions but I don't see this ending well.

[calliope1975]

3 hours ago, Chaser said:

Honestly, I'm skipping this episode and I'm preparing myself to forget some character interactions.

I'll probably watch in a train wreck like fashion like I did the gun episode, but I've already decided this is going to be some bad MG written AU fanfic that won't color my opinions of these characters. 

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

AKA Kendall Jenners Pepsi commercial.

It's like he saw the reaction to HBO's announcement of Confederate and thought, hold my beer. Why is it so hard for white writers to listen to POC who are like, nah, son, we're good. Keep your dumb idea. 

I feel like sending MG this video.

[lemotomato]

I really hope the backlash at the news of a BLM episode will spook the network into making MG change his plans. I have to think that no one outside was consulted when they gave the episode an OK, otherwise they'd know that scope of the BLM movement is much too big to be properly addressed in 42 minutes and any attempt would come off as half hearted and  most likely offend everyone. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by lemotomato

[Cleanqueen]

BL creators were specifically saying they wanted their show to tackle issues like this that are apart of the Black Community...we don't need Arrow and their non black writers to give this a try. This is a very bad idea and someone needs to get involved ASAP and stop it from happening. 

[apinknightmare]

Another reason why I dislike it - on top of all the other ones we've discussed - is because these "very special episodes" are always about ongoing issues, and framing them in an hour-long episode with a "fix" at the end (like Oliver's bill at the end of the gun control ep) is terrible. Whoever deals with the issue in this episode is likely never going to have another problem with it again, and that's just not how it works. There's good in bringing it to the forefront for discussion of course - I'm not saying that it's not worth doing unless you can make a whole run of a show about it - but it's just something that requires more than 42 minutes to do right, and it can't be magically solved when the end credits roll. 

Which is why it's much more suited to being handled on BL - not only because they don't have to bring in a POC writer to do it (shameful), but because I'm confident on that show it won't be a one and done type of thing with some good feels at the end so everyone can go back to their lives where this never affects them again.

[leopardprint]

34 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Another reason why I dislike it - on top of all the other ones we've discussed - is because these "very special episodes" are always about ongoing issues, and framing them in an hour-long episode with a "fix" at the end (like Oliver's bill at the end of the gun control ep) is terrible.

Yes, I think it is beyond offensive to treat racism and institutional violence as a "Villain of the Week" essentially when it's literally never been brought up before.

This is a show that can't even decide if the main character killing people is bad how are they possibly equipped to deal with this? Arrow deals with cartoonish depictions of violence that have very few consequences (legal or otherwise) for the main characters, they just don't have the standing for this. Oliver actually killed a police officer and covered it up for goodness sake. 

Also, and maybe this is my dislike of MG showing, but doesn't it feel like he stole this storyline from BL? It's like he's preemptively "well, actually"-ing them. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by leopardprint

[tv echo]

Liam Hall is an Australian actor (age 27). He's a model and actor, and his height is 6'1". I believe these are his IMDb and social media links...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5795531/
https://twitter.com/_liamh_
https://www.instagram.com/liamhall_/
https://www.facebook.com/liamhallactor/

Edited September 8, 2017 by tv echo

[strikera0]

Yeah, black lives matter unless you are an African-American baby girl. Then you can be replaced with an African-American baby boy and nobody bats an eye. 

[Morrigan2575]

Just realized, MG never posted the script cover for 606, which should have started filming on 9/6.  I was curious to see if IMDb was right about Antonio N directing.

[bijoux]

That's just what I wanted to bring up. Instead of antagonizing people about his afterschool special episode he should just be useful and post the script cover.

[LeighAn]

Question- what was the reaction to 5x13? Like did the critics love the gun control episode? I'm just trying to figure out why Marc is so insistent on doing this, because my understanding was the last very special episode didn't go down well. 

 

Thats a good point about the BL writers. If I was them I'd be peeved off that their show which is about the Black experience through the lens of super heroism is trying to be top by the super white writing team on another show in the universe. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

Liam Hall is an Australian actor (age 27). He's a model and actor, and his height is 6'1". I believe these are his IMDb and social media links...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5795531/
https://twitter.com/_liamh_
https://www.instagram.com/liamhall_/
https://www.facebook.com/liamhallactor/

Ok, he's the right age.  Now if Joe ends up not evil, I'd ship him and Thea.  Slade for an in law is so bad, it's good.

[tv echo]

Manu Bennett has weighed in on Slade's son...

ETA: The critics were very critical (negative) of last season's gun violence episode.

Edited September 9, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

29 minutes ago, tv echo said:

ETA: The critics were very critical (negative) of last season's gun violence episode

Why do I think MG translated that as "Lots of people are talking about it!"

[Trisha]

58 minutes ago, tv echo said:

ETA: The critics were very critical (negative) of last season's gun violence episode.

The big sites liked it, though. Now that Vulture isn't reviewing the show, I'd say the the three biggies in terms of visibility/credibility are AVClub, IGN, and EW. AVC gave it a B+, IGN gave it 8/10, and EW gave it a B.  

[Morrigan2575]

Yay! I love Roy. Which is so crazy because i hated him in S1 but, he really grew on me in S2 and S3. They found the right fit for him, (background,  coma, snarky comments). Plus Colton has the best chemistry with Willa (of all her LIs).

[Chaser]

How soon is soon? If they are doing different versions of the characters in the crossover, I wonder if that's where Roy pops up. 

I hope if Willa is ever written out they give Thea and Roy a happy ending. 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

How soon is soon? If they are doing different versions of the characters in the crossover, I wonder if that's where Roy pops up. 

I hope if Willa is ever written out they give Thea and Roy a happy ending. 

Absolutely agree about Thea/Roy. Thea deserves a happy ending and, she seemed to be most together with Roy. I'd love for them to move to another town, open their own business and, occasionally fight crime on the side.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

I wonder if that's why CH is coming back.... because they're writing out Thea and want to give her a happy ending.

[way2interested]

I wonder if he's just coming back for the crossover to make up for the fact he couldn't come back last year.

[Morrigan2575]

25 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I wonder if he's just coming back for the crossover to make up for the fact he couldn't come back last year.

Absolutely possible that he's coming back for the crossover that would start filming on the 18th (or there abouts).  Assuming episode 7 is the crossover 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[ComicFan777]

The mask/helmet from the spoiler page looks sorta like Persuader's helmet - Persuader is a villain who used an ax that could cut pathways between universes and gathered multiple versions of villains from different universes to create a supervillain army. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by ComicFan777

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know what it is but, I feel like I do. Such a weird feeling, I will probably kick myself when it's revealed.

[lemotomato]

19 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

The mask/helmet from the spoiler page looks sorta like Persuader's helmet - Persuader is a villain who used an ax that could cut pathways between universes and gathered multiple versions of villains from different universes to create a supervillain army. 

So... Infinite Crisis Crisis on Infinite Earths is going to be the crossover storyline that MG hinted would make comics fans lose their minds?

Edited September 10, 2017 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So... Infinite Crisis Crisis on Infinite Earths is going to be the crossover storyline that MG hinted would make comics fans lose their minds?

I said Crisis months ago so I'm hoping it's right. 

[calliope1975]

I like that idea better than Infinity Crisis. I haven't read Crisis on Infinite Earths, but I still have my IC comics, and I don't want a budget version of that story. 

[tarotx]

My sister just asked me if Roy is coming back for the Olicity wedding.

I hope it's not anything bad about Thea. 

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I wonder if that's why CH is coming back.... because they're writing out Thea and want to give her a happy ending.

Since WH doesn't seem to have been in many episodes this year, I'd think CH's "Roy is coming back soon" , no matter how soon, would be TOO soon for WH to be written off the show...unless her episode count was REALLY reduced and then all bets are off.  

 

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

So... Infinite Crisis Crisis on Infinite Earths is going to be the crossover storyline that MG hinted would make comics fans lose their minds?

If they did Infinite Earths you could almost certainly expect KC to be in it and "good" Laurel as BC again and probably the GA and BC pairing.  Beyond that taking WAY too much focus if they went there, the whole storyline sounds ridiculously convoluted and confusing.  And while different versions of the same characters could be interesting and emotional (cause you could kill them without losing the original) I'm not sure where all this romance being in the air could even fit in to such an all consuming story.  I still get the vibe of them doing a simpler big comic story so they could spend more time on the characters...but that could just be wishful thinking.   

[tarotx]

Having, killing and watching copies or different versions of the characters die, is what Legends did for their s2 final episodes. 

[insomniadreams88]

I'm excited to see Roy again. (Let's just never have him, Ray and Rory in the same episode? I feel like the typos when discussing that episode would be ridiculous.)

I wonder if we'll know about WH's episode count for the season sooner than we did last year. Maybe after the premiere? Hopefully? 

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

If they did Infinite Earths you could almost certainly expect KC to be in it and "good" Laurel as BC again and probably the GA and BC pairing. 

I fear that happening and I really hope it doesn't after we had to deal with O/L in the 100th. Let that be the last time we have to deal with that pairing. 

Although, with Dinah officially BC this season, it might not happen because they'll probably want to firmly establish her as the show's BC.

Maybe they can have an Earth where Dinah is with a Lance - Quentin or not - since I don't think they're going to do that on this Earth. (Imagine if they hear a Dinah Lance is BC on another Earth and surprise! It's Dinah Drake, not Laurel.) 

Hopefully they decide to keep KC as BS only to make sure people see BS as a villain since that's clearly the story they're telling with her as BC's villain. 

[Mellowyellow]

We got virtually no Olicity in the crossover last year. I hope that's not the case this year. 

What would they do with Felicity and Diggle if they did do that comic storyline I wonder. Felicity usually crosses over on all the shows.

[BkWurm1]

Nerd HQ?  Which is what I don't want to happen.  I want more than just the leads mixing with the leads.  I'm now kind of obsessed with the idea of Sara and Iris hitting it off.  Or Oliver working with Alex from Supergirl and Diggle with J'onn since he's such a great mix of by the book and ALIEN!  And I want Felicity in the action, meaning there in the thick of things not safe in a lab.  Let her maybe befriend a foe or be the brilliant mind she is in any situation and help figure their problem out.  Maybe even be stuck with a naysayer and prove she's not just a hero behind the keyboard.  

[tv echo]

Is that the same Crisis story that AK was referring to in the below 2015 quote? Or a different comics Crisis story? (I don't read the comics)...

Fat Man on Batman Podcast 103: Passion of the Kreisberg - Part 2 of two-part interview (Dec. 16, 2015)
https://soundcloud.com/fatmanonbatman/103-passion-of-the-kreisberg

-- AK (referring to Greg Berlanti's first time crying over a comic book when Barry died in Crisis): "It was the first time he realized that comic books were basically just soap operas for boys." 

Edited September 10, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[ComicFan777]

I think Barry dies in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

If this is what the producers have referred to as the emotional component of the crossover, then I can tell you now that I don't care about Barry's death.

[strikera0]

6 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think Barry dies in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

If this is what the producers have referred to as the emotional component of the crossover, then I can tell you now that I don't care about Barry's death.

What would be the point of that, anyway? Everyone in the audience knows that he will get resurrected - the same way Oliver did. 

[tv echo]

So their big crossover story might be the story that made GB realize that comics are soap operas... okay.

Also, I wonder if TPTB are testing out a possible Deathstroke spinoff with the upcoming Slade Wilson two-parter. You have Manu Bennett, with his on-screen charisma, and now they've cast a young, hunky guy to play his son, Joe Wilson. I know that MP has said 'no' to any more spin offs, but you never know. Some of the new CW shows debuting this fall don't look all that promising. Of course, DC might not allow such a spinoff.

Edited September 10, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

So their big crossover story might be the story that made GB realize that comics are soap operas... okay.

Also, I wonder if TPTB are testing out a possible Deathstroke spinoff with the upcoming Slade Wilson two-parter. You have Manu Bennett, with his on-screen charisma, and now they've cast a young, hunky guy to play his son, Joe Wilson. I know that MP has said 'no' to any more spin offs, but you never know. Some of the new CW shows debuting this fall don't look all that promising. Of course, DC might not allow such a spinoff.

I'm mildly concerned that dude is going to end up on the already crowded team. So have they cast Slade's wife/the mom? Sigh, this show. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by leopardprint

[Primal Slayer]

Manu is already tied full time to another show so unless MTV cancels his show, a spin off wont happen. 

[bijoux]

30 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I'm mildly concerned that dude is going to end up on the already crowddd team. So have they cast Slade's wife/the mom? Sigh, this show. 

The son? How did you get there?

[leopardprint]

30 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The son? How did you get there?

It's not a serious concern, I'm just agreeing with @tv echo, that he's a typical CW choice that they could be testing out. He seems like the same type they cast to be Thea's love interests. 

[Primal Slayer]

Well it is TheCW, any young adult is going to be hot unless they are meant to be a nerd which even then they will probably end up being hot.

[Velocity23]

I would think Jericho or even Deathstroke would show up on the Titans show WB is gonna launch on their own platform. 

[Belinea]

I enjoy MB as Deathstroke but I don't know if I'd  be interested in watching a show about him and his family. I like him as a villain/adversary type of character but I am not as interested in much more than that. 

Am I the only person who doesn't really care about the crossover. I get why they do them and that they are successful when it comes to ratings but I don't really care for them. Didn't like first year and I really didn't like the second year. I just don't watch the other shows and I am not interested in aliens on Arrow. Also I found the 100th episode to be one of the weaker episodes. But then again, I found S5 as a whole was lacking. 

[Primal Slayer]

It's weird, I am always excited for the big crossovers but then mostly disappointed with how they do them. I enjoyed the first crossover since I didn't expect much out of it and it delivered. From there on the storylines were practically lackluster, partially due to them sticking with Flash/Arrow have to be the leading stars of it, first year yeah I get it but after that, I want bigger change ups and for it to mean something for all these characters to come together. Though the Dominators crossover was miles better then the Hawks crossover.