Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe she was in town for ADR? I don't know where Arrow does that and with her filming Suits, it could have been easier in Vancouver?

[LeighAn]

Yeah there's plenty of reasons she could be on set. Hopefully not to take up too much screen time as I agree Im hoping in 5B they trim the fat and get back to the core cast now that they established the newbies.

[statsgirl]

Or maybe a flashback to earlier in the season when she's digging up dirt on Oliver.  Or maybe that's her on the couch in the picture that BamBam let slip.  She's returned to warn Oliver the Bratva is coming.   Please, please, please let the LI part be over and the cast winnowed down.

It's about a four hour plane ride from Toronto to Vancouver so not that far away.

Quote

if she is the love interest she personally preferable to be then Oliver hooking up with Tina metaphorically in Felicitys face and domain.

Been there, did that, in season 2 with Sara.  If they do it again, I will rage.  Especially if Billy is no longer in the romantic picture.

Edited December 4, 2016 by statsgirl

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

His thought seemed to change with the wind? Oh I thought he was just being fake considering he's a people pleaser... Because obviously people pleasers can't change their opinions/minds...

Maybe he's just a fake people pleaser who likes to ride gusts of wind.

Either way, I don't mind him at the end of the day. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[LeighAn]

44 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Or maybe a flashback to earlier in the season when she's digging up dirt on Oliver.  Or maybe that's her on the couch in the picture that BamBam let slip.  She's returned to warn Oliver the Bratva is coming.   Please, please, please let the LI part be over and the cast winnowed down.

It's about a four hour plane ride from Toronto to Vancouver so not that far away.

Been there, did that, in season 2 with Sara.  If they do it again, I will rage.  Especially if Billy is no longer in the romantic picture.

Yep except this time it would be worst considering Felicity isn't the undefined in denial about his obvious to everyone but him feelings for her friend. But the made plans to marry this girl and have her many future vigilante computer wiz babies before growing to old age and dying in her arms The Notebook style great love of his life.

Im personally on the reporter girl will be the only love interest and Tina is just a new version of Black Canary or another mask and if we're lucky maybe even a female friend for Felicity. Although I'm not saying never say never to her being another doomed to fail and be hated LI. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by LeighAn

[insomniadreams88]

That's something that's bothered me about Tina possibly being a LI for Oliver. Yes, Felicity has a BF right now but she barely refers to him as such in front of Oliver. Oliver/Tina would be happening right in front of Felicity. 

Please, let her be Felicity's friend. Let that be her primary relationship with the team. Although, since they seem to be against giving Felicity a friend (and showing her friendships with Diggle and Thea), I'm not counting on that. 

[LeighAn]

Honestly if Tina is a Black Canary and or mask I think the worst thing they could do is make her a LI if they want people to like her and get behind her especially in the circumstances Oliver and Felicity are in which is why Im not convinced they will go there. 

I mean they saw what happened to Ray They went from introducing him with the intention of the back door pilot for The Atom spin off to having to go to extreme lengths to bring a dead character Sara back and turned into a hodge podge of various Arrowverse characters ensemble adventure show which I suspect was due to the fact that his appearance in season 3 didn't give them enough confidence he could hold the show on his own.

I would think the writers pushing the newbies soo hard and how desperate they are for the audience to like them so that WB can get all that merchandise $$$ I would think they'd be smart enough to not introduce Tina in a way that's instantly going to cause her to reap the fandoms ire. Especially since she isn't a canon character so she won't even have the comic book dudebros on her side of she's just used for romantic angst.

[tv echo]

I decided to parse out the New BC and Tina spoilers as follows...

1. Will There Be a New Black Canary?

On her deathbed in the 501 flashback, Laurel made Oliver promise to "please don't let me be the last Canary.". MG said that, "as the season progresses, eventually it will turn Oliver’s attention towards the specificity of that promise of a new Black Canary, and we’ll have to see what happens." These two things alone could be interpreted loosely or metaphorically as just finding another female vigilante to take up the BC legacy and join their team, who will not necessarily be called 'Black Canary.'

However, according to papp tweets, Oliver & Felicity will be searching for a New BC in 510. Also, Canadagraphs tweeted that there will be a New BC and that she won't be Laurel, Sara or Evelyn (but he did not specify which episode). Now, it's possible that the papps just saw someone filming who looked like BC and assumed the character would be called 'BC'. 

Also, there is still a fancy buckle costume sitting unused in a glass case in the Arrow Bunker. 

2.  Who Is the New BC?

Assuming that there will be a New BC, who is she?  There have only been two new female casting news.  I think we can dismiss Talia al Ghul, since SA has indicated that she will be relevant to the flashbacks. That leaves two possibilities: Black Siren and Tina (unless there was super secret casting that we don't know about).

It's possible that 510 is a redemption story for BS, who is inspired by Laurel's story/statue and returns to her own Earth where she changes her name to BC. Also, I do not know if BS' real name is also Laurel, but it may not matter. Canadagraphs tweeted that the New BC was not Laurel, but he may have meant Laurel of Earth 1, or he may not know BS's real name. However, BS becoming the New BC would cut against Laurel's deathbed statement: "That way, a part of me will always be out there with you." If BS returns to her own Earth, then she won't be with Oliver, and we've seen no sign of KC on set after 510. 

That leaves Tina as the New BC (if there is a New BC).

3. Who Is Tina Boland?

The casting news of JH as Tina Boland, a detective formerly of Central City, describes her as "brash yet tactful, tough, speaks her mind, and is not the easiest person to impress" and that she also has a problem with vigilantes like Green Arrow and his new team of recruits: SA has said that "Tina is a character that the team tracks down, who is operating in another city." 

It's unknown why or how Tina ends up in Star City, or how she would go from being anti-vigilante to becoming a vigilante herself. It's unknown whether her being from Central City means that she could be a metahuman. At this point, she could or could not be the New BC or Manhunter or some other comics superhero.

4.  Will Tina Join Team Arrow?

We know that Tina will debut in 511.  And social media posts show her hanging out with Team Arrow members.  Also, a b-t-s "mannequin" video clip posted by EK included JH and was posted while 513 was filming, so it looks like Tina is around for at least three episodes. 

DR hinted at a comic con about "more feminine energy" joining the team. And, as mentioned, there is an unused buckle costume in the Arrow Bunker.  JH does have a similar body type to KC, so it doesn't stretch credibility too much that her character could fit into Laurel's BC costume with some adjustment (certainly more believable than Thea wearing Roy's red costume).

5.  Will Tina Be Someone's Love Interest?

The only spoiler supporting Tina as a love interest are the "Tina" casting sides. Although MG said these sides are fake, it doesn't mean we can't learn anything from them. The dialogue and character names in the casting sides might have been fake, but they do indicate what TPTB were looking for in auditioning actresses for this role. The casting sides indicated that they were looking for an actress who could believably portray a character who was tough and a physical fighter. They were also looking for an actress who could create a sexually charged, somewhat combative atmosphere with another character on the show.* If Tina was not going to be someone's love interest, those casting sides would be an odd choice for an audition piece.

(* One might argue that they were correcting the casting mistakes they made with KC, when they cast her as Laurel without first doing a chemistry test with SA or finding out whether she could believably portray a fighter.)

So if Tina is going to be someone's love interest, the most likely possibilities are Oliver and Wild Dog. If Tina is the New BC, comic canon would support her being Oliver's love interest. But her name - unless she's using an alias - would not fit with any comics name for the BC. If height is a factor, her being 5'8" might also favor Oliver. On the other hand, it seems ridiculous that Oliver would end up banging three Black Canaries on the show (yes, I still consider Sara the first BC).

At this point, we just don't know.

[looptab]

I don't mean to be rude, but why are we rehashing this same argument every two days? I mean, there's something new on the Tina front that I probably missed?

[dtissagirl]

Maybe Wild Dong will be the new BC, he's already written EXACTLY like Laurel anyway.

[Willowtree]

16 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

David seems to totally be playing to his audience which is a smart thing to do. I doubt he suddenly cares about bb sara being gone all of a sudden and of course he wants as much screen time as possible so the more OTA the better for him. 

That is probably one of the reasons why DR promotes OTA so hard. I often wonder how Willa feels about her character being left out/marginalized whenever her co-actor talks about Oliver's team. I mean, regardless of whether Thea/Speedy is not currently involved with the team or not, she was a full-time, valued member when she fought alongside Diggle and the rest of the team in earlier seasons. But maybe he includes Thea in the "Original Team Arrow"?

Edited December 4, 2016 by Willowtree

[dtissagirl]

Felicity literally said the letters O T A out loud, and then added "original team Arrow" right after it 403. If viewers did not pay attention, that's on them.

Edited December 4, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

We know with original team arrow the writers and fans mean Oliver, Diggle and Felicity, it was specified on the show. The fact that a team existed years after Thea joining and people liked that dynamic doesn't mean her role isn't valued or appreciated though. David seems to like that dynamic, it's good for his character, he knows fans like it so he talks about it. It also isn't the only thing he praises. Every time people say they like something there's always someone left out automatically but it isn't personal, people simply have preferences. 

[Morrigan2575]

For the record, OTA isn't a fan concept it originated with the actors. I believe SA was the first to coin the phrase back during S3. He tweeted out a cast photo from the first crossover table read with a caption of OG Team Arrow. That's the first time I can recall it being used. Fans picked up on SA's caption, dropped the OG and went with OTA.

As I recall, later that year, DR posted a photo of SA, DR, CH and EBR and captioned it Orignal Team Arrow (it was his goodbye to CH).  

So this is more a case of the actors coining the phrase, the fandom picking up on it and then the show embracing it and making it canon.

[looptab]

You know, I'm as diffident towards what actors say as it gets. But, David Ramsey is not, say, Paul Blackthorne, who has very few minutes each episode. David gets his screen time OTA or not OTA, as evidenced by the fact that he is right up there on the list - and he was absent from most of the first two episodes this season - and the fact that they hardly  give us scenes of those three anymore.

Edited December 4, 2016 by looptab

[Lily-n11]

Original Team Arrow was a thing even sooner. DR posted these from SDCC 2014

‏@david_ramsey 26. Juli 2014  #OriginalTeamArrow is incomplete at #SDCC https://twitter.com/david_ramsey/status/492866579445469185?lang=de

@david_ramsey 27. Juli 2014 #OriginalTeamArrow is now complete.   https://twitter.com/david_ramsey/status/493160279891402752?lang=de

[Morrigan2575]

So DR is the one that started it! Good find ?

Makes sense he's also the one that talks it up the most

[dtissagirl]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

You know, I'm as diffident towards what actors say as it gets. But, David Ramsey is not, say, Paul Blackthorne, who has very few minutes each episode. David gets his screen time OTA or not OTA, as evidenced by the fact that he is right up there on the list - and he was absent from most of the first two episodes this season - and the fact that they hardly  give us scenes of those three anymore.

I honestly don't even see a problem if something begins 100% in fandom and creatives pounce on it. I like that you mentioned PB, because he DID get into the Lance/Donna train [to the point of being kinda gross about it] after fandom teased the actors about it. And then he obviously lobbied the EPs for it, and it got him a whole storyline in S4 he wouldn't have gotten otherwise. That was pretty smart of him, tbh.

[Willowtree]

Thanks for the replies concerning OTA. I just have the feeling that this concept, regardless of where it originated, has mainly been embraced by the Olicity fandom. I'm fully aware that this is a very Felicity/Olicity/-oriented forum, but I've seen lots of posts (both on FB and other forums) where posters don't even know what OTA stands for, and therefore have to ask what it means. These posters are baffled when they learn that some fans consider the O/F/D constellation as more "core" and "special" than the many other constellations of the team that we've seen over the course of five seasons, and that these characters therefore deserve to be singled out and regarded as a kind of "Holy Trinity" (a term I've seen used by OTA fans!). I understand if David feels that Diggle's relationship with Oliver and Felicity is more special than his relationship with Roy, Laurel, Sara and Thea, but it's still odd to see an actor adopt tropes and notions which are very much connected with a specific fanbase (regardless if they were originally coined by some of the actors). I'm saying this because hardly anybody outside the Olicity fandom uses the OTA moniker, or gives it as much weight and importande to THIS particular version of the team as the Olicity shippers.

On the other hand, it's fully plausible that David Ramsey is  expressing the party line. I mean, 2/3 of the characters that the "comic book Fanbois" would regard as the canonical Team Arrow members have left the show (Roy, Laurel). This means that the core team in this AU version of the comic book Green Arrow consists of Oliver/GA and two made-for-the show characters, namely Diggle and Felicity. In that sense David Ramsey is just expressing the current direction of the writing....it's Felicity and Diggle who are Oliver's REAL team in the CW "Green Batman" version of the GA comics (because OQ himself shares more characteristics with Nolan's Batman than with the chilli-making, humorous, Leftie GA of the comic books). 

I'm fully aware that my POV is highly unorthodox and maybe even scandalous/reprehensible on this forum, given its pronounced Felicity/Olicity/OTA slant. However, my hope is that there is enough acceptance for diverging opinions that I won't be attacked for saying something that is quite clear to most non-shipper fans, namely that OTA's prominence and greatness is not obvious to all viewers, and that the show's own emphasis on this aspect is not entirely a blessing.......at least if you believe that an adaptation should retain at least some of the elements from the original sources. Of course, if you regard "Arrow" as an independent story, rather than as an adaption of an original source, you could say that the core of this independent story are Oliver and Felicity and their love story and the Oliver/Diggle/Felicity crusade against crime and Big Bads. In this case the elements borrowed from the DC comic book lore is just the icing on the cake, so to speak. To my mind that would be the most accurate description of the current incarnation of "Arrow".

Edited December 4, 2016 by Willowtree

[looptab]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I honestly don't even see a problem if something begins 100% in fandom and creatives pounce on it. I like that you mentioned PB, because he DID get into the Lance/Donna train [to the point of being kinda gross about it] after fandom teased the actors about it. And then he obviously lobbied the EPs for it, and it got him a whole storyline in S4 he wouldn't have gotten otherwise. That was pretty smart of him, tbh.

How many times did he say that Lance had to get laid? LOL, Jesus.

[dtissagirl]

4 minutes ago, Willowtree said:

I'm fully aware that this is a very Felicity/Olicity/-oriented forum, but I've seen lots of posts (both on FB and other forums) where posters don't even know what OTA stands for, and therefore have to ask what it means.

Like I replied upthread before you edited your post and reposted it as a new one: episode 403 spells out what OTA means. If these folks didn't watch and/or didn't pay attention to that episode, it's not the show's fault. Nor the fault of the fans who embraced the term exactly like the creatives did. But now we're veering into fan talk, and that's a no-no.

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, Willowtree said:

I'm fully aware that my POV is highly unorthodox and maybe even scandalous/reprehensible on this forum, given its pronounced Felicity/Olicity/OTA slant

You really don't have to keep repeating this. And nothing you wrote is scandalous or reprehensible, and no one here is treating it as such.

Edited December 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

I don't think it's hard to see that Oliver, Felicity and Digg are the core team even if one doesn't know about the term ota and how much a lot of fans like it.I think its pretty evident just from watching the show. They were the first people who joined the team, a team didn't even exist before that, the show has noted how it started with them a few times, they have been the one version of the team that is constant since Felicity and Digg have been on the team since season 1 while others come and go and usually don't actually last that long, Digg and Felicity have been there for every single important moment in Oliver's journey as GA and have influenced a lot of it in different ways etc.Imo that's enough to set them apart as a dynamic. 

[Morrigan2575]

You know what?! Now that I've been pondering it, I think the show might have started the whole OTA thing. 

i revise my post, Arrow Writers started it, fandom embraced it, actors coined it and then show incorporated the term that fandom embraced. Very cyclical

[dtissagirl]

Man, robot Laurel powering down in the background sends me back to innocent times.

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You know what?! Now that I've been pondering it, I think the show might have started the whole OTA thing. 

 

i revise my post, Arrow Writers started it, fandom embraced it, actors coined it and then show incorporated the term that fandom embraced. Very cyclical

I also think the same applies for Olicity. I always get aggravated when I hear how the writers "only wrote Olicity because the fans wanted it". Umm no the writers noticed chemistry between Stephen and Emily, which got the attention of the Network President who wanted more of Emily in the show, kept her around and started writing a bunch of scenes that purposely had the two have a series of meet cute rom com type flirty scenes which the audience then embraced then started shipping the characters which made them a popular aspect of the show and reinforced the writers to continue writing towards Olicity.

[Soulfire]

1 minute ago, Willowtree said:

I just wanted to point out that the ONLY "Arrow" fanbase who appropriated this notion is the Olicity fanbase. 

The show has stated, in show, in SCRIPT, that OTA = Original Team Arrow = Oliver, Diggle, Felicity.

[Willowtree]

21 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

You really don't have to keep repeating this. And nothing you wrote is scandalous or reprehensible, and no one here is treating it as such.

I'm sorry about the double postings. I edited my post, thinking that nobody would have had the time to read it. 

[Chaser]

Deleted cause I misread something.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Chaser

[looptab]

Well, of course OTA wouldn't be celebrated in anti-Felicity fora. As for FB, I have to think that not everyone commenting there is deeply involved in fandom, so yeah maybe the term is new to them. But even reviewers, be them aware or unaware of fandom, comment on the 'Original' aspect of that dynamic whether with the OTA term or else,whenever it presents itself.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Uhm, so about that mole Evelyn, eh? Chase as Vigilante? Possible death of Billy "Tiny Hands" Malone? Don't make me ask about toothy stalker reporters, please, I'm begging you

[HighHopes]

MG "spoiled" the last scene of season five in an interview with TVLine. And by "spoiled" I mean confirmed what everyone guessed since the show premiered and that the last scene of season five will be Oliver being rescued in the flashbacks. 

https://tvline.com/2016/12/04/arrow-season-5-finale-spoilers-series-finale-changed/

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I think that was the plan from S1, I'm almost positive that they've talked about S5 ending with Oliver's rescue. Although, I don't know if they ever specified that it would be the very last scene in 523. I guess I thought they would end in the present but, S2 did end on a Flashback.

[way2interested]

I guess they'll reshoot it then? Or will they intercut it with the old footage and then add in some new shot right after he gets rescued as kind of a wrap-up for the flashbacks?

[Morrigan2575]

I think I prefer the idea of them just using the pilot scene, with maybe a new VO or perhaps cut in current scenes of Oliver in SC with the previously filmed scene.

[SmallScreenDiva]

First, thank you, @HighHopes

I don't know that they need to reshoot anything if the FBs this season takes him from Bratva to the island. Have the explanation as to how long he'd be on the island before a possible rescue during one of the final Bratva scenes, setting up why he looks like a hermit. Then they can use old footage. Unless, they want to change or add things to give new light to the rescue or something.

[dtissagirl]

9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I guess they'll reshoot it then? Or will they intercut it with the old footage and then add in some new shot right after he gets rescued as kind of a wrap-up for the flashbacks?

They probably need to reshoot it for the part when Oliver glues a beard into his face.

[Chaser]

I'm not sure it's the last scene of the season. AK said it was supposed to be the last flashback of the series finale and MG said they would end S5 with it now. I wonder if MG is means to make it the last flashback not scene.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Chaser

[insomniadreams88]

It'll probably depend on what's going on in present day at the end of the season. If it's not a major cliffhanger type moment in the present, I could see them ending it with the flashback. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Arrow hasn't really done big cliffhanger moments for its finales so they could have the flashback as the last scene, similar to the S2 finale, or they could show the flashback to the rescue then transition to present day with Oliver saying something that ties into his rescue 5 years ago and the season ends, closing a chapter for the show and they can come back in Season 6 with more Original Team Arrow and Olicity focus! (Sorry, couldn't resist :P )

[statsgirl]

Does it count as a spoiler if everyone knew it was going to happen?

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

They probably need to reshoot it for the part when Oliver glues a beard into his face.

And digs up a wig from somewhere.

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

On the other hand, it seems ridiculous that Oliver would end up banging three Black Canaries on the show (yes, I still consider Sara the first BC).

To quote Felicity talking about his penchant for inviting people for meals "My god, it's like an addiction with you!"

The only time I've heard people say that OTA is not O/D/F (and is really O/D, O/D/Sara/Roy or some other combination) is when they're trying to show that Felicity is not that important.

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Does it count as a spoiler if everyone knew it was going to happen?

And digs up a wig from somewhere.

To quote Felicity talking about his penchant for inviting people for meals "My god, it's like an addiction with you!"

The only time I've heard people say that OTA is not O/D/F (and is really O/D, O/D/Sara/Roy or some other combination) is when they're trying to show that Felicity is not that important.

My fave is OTA= Oliver Shado Slade 

[wonderwall]

Just now, LeighAn said:

My fave is OTA= Oliver Shado Slade 

This never made sense to me... How could it be Original Team ARROW when Oliver wasn't even the ARROW at that point? 

IMO OTA wasn't born until Oliver became the Arrow. So IMO that's 201. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

And digs up a wig from somewhere.

Maybe the Bratva will give it to him as a farewell present. "Here, get this tattoo. And take this wig and beard. Now you're all set." 

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Waller's gonna give him one and send him back to Star City to complete some mission that he never did and she conveniently never mentioned while she was alive, and whatever that was is going to be the focus of S6. 

[dtissagirl]

It's been implied that Oliver decided it was time to come back home. And he clearly planned the whole Hood thing before coming back to SC. And one of the most important things to him at that point was "nobody can know my secret". So staging a Tom Hanks in Castaway rescue does make sense.

[Morrigan2575]

I've always been curious as to how long Oliver was back on the island before the staged rescue. For some reason I thought he went back and spent a few months in isolation before the rescue. 

Now, I'm guessing he'll probably land on the island in 522 with a rescue in 523.

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe the last flashback will just be a time lapse of Oliver's hair and beard growing before he's rescued. 

[apinknightmare]

I've missed the past few episodes - is Oliver bound by some kind of pact to stay part of the Bratva? Somehow I don't think they'd just let him leave if he wanted to. I'm guessing maybe he does something big for Anatoly, and he grants him an exit or something of the like? 

Edited December 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe the last flashback will just be a time lapse of Oliver's hair and beard growing before he's rescued. 

Can they do a time lapse?  Would it jump to the start of s6?  They have to match it up to the start of s1.

If they don't cut Oliver's hair in the flashbacks at all, it's possible it could grow to that length.  But that beard would take loner than they've got.