Spoiler Discussion Thread

[blixie]

 

But EVERYTHING. HAS. CHANGED!

 

We can change that popular refrain to: because COMICAL!

[DrSpaceman10]

If Felicity and Ray are going to lunge at each other (which I still find unnecessary BTW), then I hope the show just does it in 3x12 and gets it over with. Time isn't going to change how I feel about Ray and Felicity.

Edited January 29, 2015 by drspaceman10

[Ariah]

I'm wondering who are all these people in the Uprising trailer - you know, the crowd that goes with Arsenal and Laurel to fight Brick?... Just like in The Dark Knight Rises?

Are they Glades' residents? Cops in plain clothes? And why are they rushing in like that, stampede style? Wouldn't it be, I don't know, wiser to use some kind of startegy? Guerilla warfare maybe?...

 

 

And yes, I dread the dialogues with the Team after Oliver's return: "It's good that you're less dead now, but we don't want your micro-management, Oliver. Get back in line. Let Laurel can handle herself... most of the time... often. OK, she handled herself ONCE. But that's not bad, right?"

[calliope1975]

And yes, I dread the dialogues with the Team after Oliver's return: "It's good that you're less dead now, but we don't want your micro-management, Oliver. Get back in line. Let Laurel can handle herself... most of the time... often. OK, she handled herself ONCE. But that's not bad, right?"

 

I typically hate Oliver's autocratic leadership skills, but, because I'm a big anger ball today, I hope Oliver tells everyone to get the fuck out of the Arrow Cave. If they're so great now, they can make their own team on their own dimes.

[Sakura12]

I know some people got upset when Sara took charge of the Slade thing. I got it because Sara knew Slade, Diggle did not. However Sara was battle tested and trained. Diggle saw Sara and Oliver as fellow soliders. So I could understand Diggle backing her up. Diggle backing up Laurel I cannot and will never understand.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

I typically hate Oliver's autocratic leadership skills, but, because I'm a big anger ball today, I hope Oliver tells everyone to get the fuck out of the Arrow Cave. If they're so great now, they can make their own team on their own dimes.

 

It just seems like such a dumb time to take a stand like that, because they've been up against ONE GUY since he left. And from the looks of it Oliver had to swing in to help out with that one. They didn't even get a single victory on their own. It definitely isn't Oliver's mission anymore, I get that. I don't even disagree with the sentiment necessarily, it's just...they didn't have Oliver gone long enough for something like that at this particular time.

[Belinea]

It almost sounds like Oliver was this evil dictator who ruled with an Iron Fist. Of course he made some decisions by himself but so did everybody else.(Diggle didn't agree with Felicity's choice just last week.) But he was a guy who had to handle everything by himself for a long time and had to learn to trust and accept other people's points of view. And it is not like he never ever listened to anyone. 

 

Also, isn't it now everyone's mission to save the city? Why would they be upset that Oliver didn't stop by to chat first? They obviously needed the help. He saw it and put on the suit to save them and the city. And yes, I get that you are angry he didn't call to let you know but maybe you should cut a guy who you thought had died some slack. He returned alive and is helping out and everyone wins. Isn't that a reason to be more happy than mad?

Edited January 29, 2015 by Belinea

[Password]

Bring back dictator-tottish Oliver. Maybe the characters will start acting like themselves when they see something normal.

[TanyaKay]

Most of you are familiar with this gif

 

I made another one for variety and in public service

 

 

because Laurel reduces most of us to this ...

[Ariah]

The thing is, once Oliver is back and is vocal about the fact that Laurel should not be in the field (+1 from me!), all hell can break loose.

From what I see, Roy will be voting for Laurel. Dig - I really don't know, he's not constant with this. Felicity? An episode before I'd say she'd back Oliver up. Now? I think this will be the obstacle between Oliver and Felicity - or the catalyst that will cause a rift.

Felicity will want Laurel to keep on fighting (it's her life, it's her choices) and she does take badly to any instances of Oliver trying to control her - so she may over-react.

 

btw, in the Canadian promo, is Laurel actually calling the Arrow in his suit "Ollie"?... I get it, she's shocked. But as Caitlin Snow would say "secret identity!" (True, everybody and their mother / sans Thea /  know that Oliver Queen is the Arrow, but that's not the point.)

 

Also, I'm hoping for Oliver's grand entry into the battle. And saving either Roy, Laurel or Dig in the process. Just a big damn hero moment. Please?

[apinknightmare]

Back to the Slade thing and Oliver being "horrified" when he sees him again and Slade being angry with Felicity and not interacting with her, is it possible that Malcolm and Thea go to see him (why, I don't know), Oliver tracks them there, and Slade manipulated the situation to get Oliver away from the city so he (Slade) could dispatch someone to take her? A long shot, I know, but I'm really puzzled by this one.

[statsgirl]

I'm really holding on to the hope that if they want Ray to have his own spin-off, they're not going to want him hated on Arrow.  But after Midnight City, it's a very faint hope.

Also, I need help figuring out the Slade thing. He's gonna be incensed at Felicity for what she did, but they're not going to interact at all? But Oliver is "horrified" when he faces Slade again. And there were pics of Willa (and Malcolm? I can't remember) in his cell. So, does Slade orchestrate some kind of vengeance against Felicity for what she did from his cell?

I think this is MG blowing things up again.  I expect that Slade is angry at Felicity, but his episode is about Malcolm, Thea and Oliver while Felicity is safe back in Starling, I mean Star City with Ray.

 

I'm also wondering if Oliver is gonna sublimate his feelings for Felicity being with Creeps by trying to get Queen Consolidated back. It would explain why would Oliver have "a ton" of scenes with Crazy Eyes, and it would also touch on the Felicity = QC parallel they started in 301, and then never ever implied again,

But that would be making him Oliver Queen instead of The Arrow, and at that point why not try to get Felicity back?

 

I expect him to double down on being The Arrow, especially if Felicity is with Ray.

 

I actually don't have a big problem with Ray, himself, right now. Or, OK, let's amend that to say I haven't had a big problem with him for 310 & 311. It's what Ray is doing to the rest of the show that is bothering me. And I do feel like BR has toned down the crazy eyes, so maybe he saw a little of that feedback. He seems like a really nice dude, and I think he's settling into the Ray role pretty well.

 

That said, I want him the hell off of Arrow, pronto. I don't think they're ready to launch another spinoff right now, so that's fine. Send him to The Flash next season, or have him recur on both shows. I don't care. All I know is that Arrow doesn't have time or space to develop every superhero in the DCU, and I'm sick of Felicity being siloed in Rayland and I fear it's only going to get worse for the rest of the season.

It's the same mistake they made with Sara last season, that they spent a lot of time on her to the detriment of the show overall (ie. Diggle, Felicity and Roy) and then ended up with her gone.

 

Same with Ray, he's going to be taking a lot of time that isn't spent on Laurel, he's twisting Felicity into a character I don't want to know, and if there is no spin-off they're still going to have to get rid of him because I can't imagine Brandon Routh is going to be content to be a recurring character on a CW show.

 

Personally, I'm ready to throw my DVDs at the TV right now.

[jay741982]

I'm really holding on to the hope that if they want Ray to have his own spin-off, they're not going to want him hated on Arrow. But after Midnight City, it's a very faint hope.

I think this is MG blowing things up again. I expect that Slade is angry at Felicity, but his episode is about Malcolm, Thea and Oliver while Felicity is safe back in Starling, I mean Star City with Ray.

But that would be making him Oliver Queen instead of The Arrow, and at that point why not try to get Felicity back?

I expect him to double down on being The Arrow, especially if Felicity is with Ray.

It's the same mistake they made with Sara last season, that they spent a lot of time on her to the detriment of the show overall (ie. Diggle, Felicity and Roy) and then ended up with her gone.

Same with Ray, he's going to be taking a lot of time that isn't spent on Laurel, he's twisting Felicity into a character I don't want to know, and if there is no spin-off they're still going to have to get rid of him because I can't imagine Brandon Routh is going to be content to be a recurring character on a CW show.

Personally, I'm ready to throw my DVDs at the TV right now.

Since we are getting an Oliver/Felicity/Ray Triangle I expect Oliver to try to get QC back and Fight for Felicity

[calliope1975]

I'm just glad I've only bought S1. 

 

Slade will probably make some off-hand comment about Felicity and that's the extent of his anger. 

[Danny Franks]

If Oliver has no company, sees the woman he loves hooking up with the guy who now owns the company, can't be bothered to save his sister from the psychotic, controlling father figure, and apparently has to come back and adjust his attitude to all the changes in his city and his team (despite sacrificing himself for them), then I have only one question, really. Why bother coming back at all? Fuck the lot of them and go and save some other city. One that's less shitty and rainy than Starling. Hell, he could go and partner up with Barry, if he really felt like it.

[statsgirl]

McKenna went to Coast City, maybe they could use him there since Starling is now overcrowded with superheros.

 

MG said that the third person who comes between Oliver and Felicity isn't Ray.  Not that I believe him much any more.

My guess is it's The Arrow.

 

I really don't see anything in the future that I want to tune in for, and lots I don't want to see like Buckle Canary, manipulating Malcolm, OOC Felicity, Raylicity and more Oliver angst. I don't even want to see Diggle & Lyla's wedding any more now that Felicity is going with Ray.  Is there any light in this tunnel?

[writersblock51]

I think the 3rd party to be the latest wedge between Oliver and Felicity is Malcolm.

 

And the wedding sounds like layers of awkward, angst and catastrophe if the Suicide Squad shows up too.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I guess that The Arrow could come between Felicity and Oliver in the sense that she can't bear to be with him as long as he remains The Arrow, because there's always the chance that he'll get himself killed for realsies next time.  I'm trying to remain hopeful, but I'm probably just setting myself up for massive disappointment and rage.  I actually might watch 3x12 to see Oliver's return (unless MG manages to completely turn me off of it within the next week).  As always, though, they won't be getting my ratings 'cause I'm petty like that.

[Belinea]

At least it looked as though Oliver gets to be Diggle's best man. Which once again proves that all everyone needs in life is a John Diggle to get by. 

[thuganomics85]

 

Why bother coming back at all? Fuck the lot of them and go and save some other city. One that's less shitty and rainy than Starling. Hell, he could go and partner up with Barry, if he really felt like it.

Ha, yeah, if nothing else, Barry and the rest of Team Flash would enjoy having him.  If anything, Barry might be too happy to see him. If Team Arrow is going to just be a dick to him when he finally comes back, there better be a great reason for it, or I would be all for Ollie being like "Fuck it!"

 

The more I read about Ray and the wedding, the more I dread it.  For all the crap I give Laurel at times, I honestly think the love TPTB have for him and Brandon Routh is even worse.  If this is all for a spin-off, it would almost be worth it, but even then, it was too much.  Barry only had two episodes on Arrow before his show, and that worked out perfectly.

[jay741982]

I think the 3rd party to be the latest wedge between Oliver and Felicity is Malcolm.

 

And the wedding sounds like layers of awkward, angst and catastrophe if the Suicide Squad shows up too.

if the Ray/Felicity Crossover has been pushed back who's to say Felicity doesn't get hurt at the wedding? It could be the end of the Episode leading into 318 where Mama Smoak returns

[apinknightmare]

I think this is MG blowing things up again.  I expect that Slade is angry at Felicity, but his episode is about Malcolm, Thea and Oliver while Felicity is safe back in Starling, I mean Star City with Ray.

 

Well, if that's the case then I hope that Thea and Malcolm go to the island to get some information from Slade and Thea isn't taken to get at Oliver. Because Slade needs to turn in his villain card if he's out for retribution and doesn't even bother with the woman who was responsible for him getting taken down in the first place. 

[catrox14]

Welp, watching that new promo.  I'm calling it now. They are going to rebrand "Arrow" as The Justice League at the end of the season. 

 

It's almost meta with Diggle asking Oliver if he can handle what it is now...It's like David Ramsey is asking Stephen if he can handle his show being co-opted into the Justice League.   

[Belinea]

 

if the Ray/Felicity Crossover has been pushed back

 

I must have missed that. Is it not happening after all?

[apinknightmare]

I must have missed that. Is it not happening after all?

 

It is, and I don't think it has been pushed back, I think they just needed to do a few rewrites to match up the timelines because of a network-mandated break.

[Password]

What's in the promo? I'm boycotting all things Arrow it seems.

[Belinea]

Oh, ok thanks :-) 

[apinknightmare]

What's in the promo? I'm boycotting all things Arrow it seems.

 

Scenes of fighting. A voiceover of Oliver saying "If you've shown me anything, it's that the city is more than safe in your hands. All of your hands." And Diggle replies with, "You've started something. Something strong enough to live on past you. Question is, can you live with what it's become?"

[statsgirl]

The fight scene looked like a redo of the fight with the mirakuru soldiers at the end of Unthinkable but with Laurel instead of Sara and no Felicity except for the shot of her turning around from her computer

 

That's pretty much a meta statement for the show.

[HighHopes]

Look show, I am trying really really hard to stay positive. I know good things have to be coming and that we have to deal with the suck now. But when you release promo photos that are basically all of Roy and Laurel it gets harder to stay positive. 

 

The photos of Sin and Diggle have me interested, but I am not watching this show for Roy and Laurel. At all. And you promoting the show as that makes it impossible for me to care. We know Oliver is back next week, we saw it in the promo, so give use at least one promo photo of him as The Arrow. 

[apinknightmare]

In those stills I wonder if Sin's telling Lance - "You realized that buckled-up blonde over there isn't Sara, right?" 

[lizonthefritz]

I believe at this point that Oliver actually loves her more but maybe I am just pissed off at the moment). 

 

I believe so too, but I think it's much easier for Oliver to wholeheartedly love Felicity from afar, safe in the knowledge that he doesn't have to act on it, actually put himself on the line.

 

While Felicity wants to put herself on the line, and she wants to do it with Oliver. Only Oliver has declared it impossible for them to be together, so Felicity knows that giving into her love for him will lead to certain heartbreak. No wonder she's holding back.

 

I can't help but think that that's the reason Felicity starts up something with Ray - he's safe in that she doesn't have to put her heart on the line simply because she starts dating him. So he's provides her with a safe place to lick her wounds after Oliver returns, recommitted to being the Arrow (I'm almost certain that's where they're going. Mostly because it's the easiest way for them to make Felicity/Ray happen and stall Felicity/Oliver for a few more episodes).

[jay741982]

Any bets on the song "Uprising" being better than this episode?

[dtissagirl]

Is that Diggle on the floor with Laurel cradling his head? Please don't be Dig.

[ban1o]

Is that Diggle on the floor with Laurel cradling his head? Please don't be Dig.

It's definitely not Diggle. 

[statsgirl]

There is not one thing in those pictures that make me want to watch, and a whole lot that makes me glad I won't be, like Laurel basically replacing Sara whole.

[calliope1975]

I know stills are not a good barometer of a scene, but man, Blah Canary looks terrible. Why couldn't this entire story be done with Sin?

[ban1o]

Most of the promo pics look their done from just that one huge fight scene. Even most of the promo was from that one scene. I'm curious about what occurs for the rest of the episode. I know we're getting Malcolm flashbacks but there's a lot more that they aren't showing. 

Edited January 29, 2015 by ban1o

[Password]

Scenes of fighting. A voiceover of Oliver saying "If you've shown me anything, it's that the city is more than safe in your hands. All of your hands." And Diggle replies with, "You've started something. Something strong enough to live on past you. Question is, can you live with what it's become?"

WHAT? The city is more safe in their hands how exactly? How are they going to make Oliver useless in his own story? Besides that, this show IS called Arrow right? Is he really necessary if new team Arrowless got this?

I'm sorry how the hell has this uprising happened in 2 weeks? Are we kidding here?

[TanyaKay]

It's almost meta with Diggle asking Oliver if he can handle what it is now...It's like David Ramsey is asking Stephen if he can handle his show being co-opted into the Justice League.   

 

so more Diggle yoda wisdom?

[catrox14]

 

so more Diggle yoda wisdom?

 

 

Fits the Yoda, yes, Maybe it does?

[Angel12d]

Scenes of fighting. A voiceover of Oliver saying "If you've shown me anything, it's that the city is more than safe in your hands. All of your hands." And Diggle replies with, "You've started something. Something strong enough to live on past you. Question is, can you live with what it's become?"

 

I could understand this being said if 6 months had passed but two weeks at most has elapsed. This is just dumb.

[catrox14]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 6 month time jump. Seriously.  And that would make Laurel even WORSE at vigilantism and fighting because by then she'll have had 6  months to get better, but based on that promo she is still terrible.  Oh show. You are so stupid now and not the fun kind of batcrap crazy stupid...just shitty stupid.

[apinknightmare]

I was playing the WORST CASE SCENARIO of things we think they wouldn't be stupid enough to do on the show, and as for the obstacle between Oliver and Felicity, I'm going to say Felicity walking in on something she misinterprets as being romantic between Oliver and Laurel. Mainly because a) it would be stupid and terrible and predictable and b) because I was trying to figure out why Laurel would've ever had a line about noticing how Oliver and Felicity felt about each other. Their nice moment in 3x13 could be an I know it didn't mean anything, I think you're awesome/Oliver sucks kind of moment.

[foreverevolving]

Promotional Pictures for "Uprising" 

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/01/arrow-episode-312-uprising-promotional.html

 

 

If they'll dumb down Sin so she doesn't recognize this is not Sara...

someone have mercy on us, please!

 

This is what i get for getting attached to CW show, has Gossip Girl thought me nothing?!

[Sunshine]

Is it possible that Oliver, since he's knows the city is in good hands (insert eye roll) leaves SC for a while with Malcolm and Thea.Or perhaps he goes after them? He's probably going to be a little out of sorts because The Arrow might not be as vital to SC as he thinks (Identity Crisis? anyone)

314 "The Return" -Lian Yu w/SC flashbacks

315 "Nanda Parbat"

316 "The Offer" - Perhaps still in Nanda Parbat? I think the TCA interview w/Matt Nable implied that Ra's would offer to mentor Oliver -

The "Team" would be operating in SC. Unfortunately this allows Felicity to grow closer to Ray. At the end of 316 he chooses to embrace Oliver Queen and heads back (escapes) to SC because he begins to realize what he wants out of life.

317 Suicide Squad w/Wedding

318 No clue what the title is but 218 Deathstroke was supposed to give us insight into Slade's mind. With Mama Smoak in episode perhaps we are getting insight into Felicity's mind.

319-323 Lead up to whatever this season's big finale is which probably involves Arrow & friends vs Ra's.

I am finding the most recent spoilers disheartening so trying to come up with something that might make sense.

[SleepDeprived]

I think the 3rd party to be the latest wedge between Oliver and Felicity is Malcolm.

 

Co-signed. I'm just tired of the merry-go-round of Oliver's "light" battling with the Arrow's "dark" persona. Also, Felicity's had enough of this 'I can't be with you because I have to be the darkness, the night, the Arrow' angst. So, yeah, speculating that the third party that will be an obstacle between Oliver and Felicity will be Malcolm/Ra's al Ghul.

 

Ra's might find out what Maseo did and that Oliver is alive. Ra's and Nyssa, I think, suspect Oliver's covering for someone about Sara's death, anyway. So, maybe, Oliver's threatened (Maseo will die for saving Oliver or that good ol'e Starling City will burn to the ground) to bring Malcolm Merlyn to Nanda Parbat. Perhaps, Felicity gets mad because to get the guy that got him killed, Oliver is basically teaming with the people that actually killed him.

 

And in 3x13, Malcolm finds out that Oliver intends to give him up to the LoA so he goes to Lian Yu to make an alliance with Slade in 3x14, taking Thea along as both his attempt to keep her his minion and his ace up his sleeve, if things go south. I suspect Oliver being "horrified" once faced with Slade again is finding out that Slade escaped his A.R.G.U.S. cell. And that Slade being angry about Felicity's role in his capture will be mostly talk (Slade's does love his villainy monologues). But, and I've spec-ed this before, Slade actually does a "360" (like Barrowman said in an interview) and helps Oliver by betraying Malcolm because he's not as Mirakuru-crazy as he used to be. SA said this is a "Boo-yah" kind of episode so having a sort of win by having Slade be the guy that used to be Oliver's mentor and friend would be a nice small win for Oliver. Although, to still keep Slade on the gray area, perhaps he spills things to Thea that Oliver and Malcolm have been hiding from her. And then escapes for future returns.

 

This theory leads us straight to 3x15 and Nanda Parbat, which I think is actually the one that might be flashback-heavy, maybe Nyssa's, Ra's', and Malcolm's. The "wait... what?" reaction that SA alluded to is probably the ending where Ra's, impressed by Oliver defying death and bringing Malcolm to him, does a Batman Begins-Ducard and makes an offer for Oliver to join the LoA. 3x16 will be Oliver pondering "The Offer" if he's going to be the Arrow full-time with the LoA or he'll reject Ra's. When Oliver refuses, which he will, Ra's will enact the plan that MG said will make Oliver wish for Slade. Ra's plan might even go exactly like the rest of Batman Begins since we already have the fear toxin, anyway, courtesy of Vertigo instead of Scarecrow.

[Hook75]

I am trying to figure out how bad the scene could be at the end of 3x12. Felicity is mad as hell. We get a "I don't want to be a woman you love". Oliver's response is oops?!

 

 

I hope she tells him that she doesn't want to be just the woman he loves, she wants MORE...to be with him, kiss him, have his babies....I'm dreaming, am I?

 

I see posters saying that Oliver needs to fight for her- I think it should be the other way around- she needs to fight for HIM, to bring back Oliver (especially if he now wants to be the Arrow only) and I think we got hints for it in the cabin this week. I never heard her saying ILY to him- maybe she should try it!

 

MG said "I'm gonna go with yes" when asked if someone came between them, so Oliver must do some dumb shit like teaming up with Malcolm or...I don't know what.

 

 

What Felicity did with Laurel this week is far worse in my book than anything Oliver will do with Malcolm.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Hook75

[jay741982]

I wonder if that serum that China White wanted in the flashbacks is relevant to Current day Starling? Maybe it's used by Ra's to potentially wipe out Starling City

I hope she tells he that she doesn't want to be just the woman he loves, she wants MORE...to be with him, kiss him, have his babies....I'm dreaming, am I?

 

I see posters saying that Oliver needs to fight for her- I think it should be the other way around- she needs to fight for HIM, to bring back Oliver (especially if he now wants to be the Arrow only) and I think we got hints for it in the cabin this week. I never heard her saying ILY to him- maybe she should try it!

 

 

What Felicity did with Laurel this week is far worse in my book than anything Oliver will do with Malcolm.

OMG yes I agree Felicity should fight for him but IF he keeps rejecting her she probably will feel like he doesn't truly want her. Maybe this is what Mama Smoak will tell her in 318 to Fight for him don't give up on him! I'm no Laurel fan but she ain't a mass murderer like Malcolm.

[Carrie Ann]

Is it possible that Oliver, since he's knows the city is in good hands (insert eye roll) leaves SC for a while with Malcolm and Thea.Or perhaps he goes after them?

 

I think your spec and @SleepDeprived's make a lot of sense, but, ugh. If we are seriously spending a third of a season with Oliver away from Team Arrow, that will be a huge bummer. I could totally see it, and I could see why Felicity would get really pissed off if Oliver comes back to life, then tells them that he's going to go back out and do it all over again, only this time, he's going to bring their two biggest nemeses with him.

 

What I can't remember is what kinds of BTS photos we've had of SA/Oliver during those episodes. We know that he hasn't yet shared a scene with KC in her Buckle Canary costume (though...he probably does in 312? so maybe he just meant since then). I can't remember what else we've seen of him with other cast members during filming for 312-316.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Carrie Ann