Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

He has in the past, if he hears it. I know he did an in depth write up of the Sara/Lance scene in 205 but he didn't mention dialogue.

Oliver could be there as mayor, looking for someone to lead the ACA or whatever it's called.  

I wondered before if Tina is connected to Evelyn. They left that thread hanging so I imagine we'll see her again. If Tina is her aunt or something that could explain why they seeked her out. If they were trying to turn Evelyn against Prometheus.

I suppose Tina could even be connected to Prometheus. Maybe something they find out about Prometheus' mom leads them to look for Tina? 

Or maybe she's connected via a death. Maybe she was related/married to someone Prometheus killed?

Edited December 10, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[insomniadreams88]

35 minutes ago, Chaser said:

KC was their source?! Lol

I flipped thru CG twitter and he did a write up of the diner scene. I can't link on my mobile but brief recap:  Oliver, Curtis, WD are at the diner talking about finding someone. The scene moves to an alley/parking lot where GA approachs Tina about coming to Star City. Tina's stunt double is also there so some type of action.

Does CG normally know what the scene is about? I feel like he normal describes what he sees not the dialogue. 

Im curious about what makes them seek out Tina to join the Team. An anti vigilant cop from another city seems an odd choice for recruitment. I wonder if the police is super duper corrupt again and they are looking for a cop to trust on the force? 

So GA is going to approach someone outside of Star City? And let me guess, the mayor's going to have some health emergency at the same time - "please, no one look too closely here" - or be suspiciously MIA at the time?

I'm kinda interested in hearing the pitches to Tina: "Star City needs cops right now." "What happened to the others?" "Well, they're all corrupt or dead. So ready to pack up your life and move? Also, feel like joining our team?" "What's happened to those who have been part of the team in the past?" "Well, one faked his death and has to live under a new identity in another city. Another died. etc." 

[Sunshine]

Have we been duped by the return of KC for one episode (I don't think so) or is SA's current pushing of BC going to blow up spectacularly in his face post 5.10?  (It has crossed my mind that this might be part of KC's representation demands although I'm not really into conspiracy theories.)  Some comic purists rejected Sara as Black Canary because of her name.  I assume they are not naming JH's character Dinah Laurel Lance.  Will Tina's middle name be Dinah? LOL!  KC's fans aren't going to be happy.  I wonder how long it will be before Tina takes up the mantle of black canary or whatever color.  Will it happen right away or will it happen it May sweeps?

On another subject, why is the show pushing Wild Dog as Oliver Queen and not just as his own character?  I was surprised when the actor compared himself to OQ in one of his interviews.   It sounded like PR talking points.  In 5.08 he is shirtless and doing the salmon ladder.  Curtis makes some remark about you're not Oliver and he responds something about always being ready which includes being in shape.  In 5.09 right before Evelyn comes in Rene and Diggle start to discuss kids and it sounds like Rene is implying he might have one out there somewhere. (Is SA on probation and if he doesn't play by the rules and push comics he could be replaced? Was it in his contract?  Just kidding. It just seems like it's become a bizarre world since May's Upfronts.) 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sunshine

[statsgirl]

There was another massive Oliver/WD parallel in 509 when Ragman tells WD they were told not to go in until the signal and WD replied that Oliver knows he doesn't listen..  About 30 seconds later Oliver doesn't listen to Felicity and she comments on it.  Later in the episode Felicity and Thea talk about how men don't listen.

I find the Wild Dog = Oliver pushing to be very annoying and I hope it bites them back badly.  The EPs were lucky that Caity Lotz made such a good Canary because iconic figures aren't interchangeable.  And now they're trying it again with Tina.

The other thing I don't understand is how they're using KC.  508 was a very good closure on Oliver and Laurel, and Sara and Laurel. And yet the very next episode, Laurel is back but she's not really Laurel, she's the Black Siren.  Or a hallucination.  KC/LL fans are going to be excited that she's back, only to be disappointed that she isn't really.  People who aren't KC/LL fans are going to be turned off that the MSF ended on her just when they thought she was gone. People who don't care either way are going never going to believe Marc "we're absolutely going to make this death stick" Guggenheim again.  WTH?

Edited December 10, 2016 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

"My real name is Laurel Dinah Lance Drake, but everyone just calls me Tina."

Thea.... "That's so weird."

[insomniadreams88]

Well, you gotta love the timing of it too. We're speculating that Black Siren destroys the BC statue in 510 and then 511 introduces Tina. If that spec is true and Tina is the new BC, wow I kind of feel bad for KC because it seems like they're just bringing her back to destroy what's left of Laurel as BC before bringing in the new one. 

Also, it seems like there's a lot to get through in 510 & 511: Black Siren, Dig in prison (again), more Prometheus stuff, Tina, etc. (I'm probably forgetting other stuff we know about.) Then 512 is Bratva, right?

And I'm assuming at some point, Lance will be out of rehab and back at work and no one will comment on his absence?

[Sunshine]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

There was another massive Oliver/WD parallel in 509 when Ragman tells WD they were told not to go in until the signal and WD replied that Oliver knows he doesn't listen..  About 30 later Oliver doesn't listen to Felicity and she comments on it.  Later in the episode Felicity and Thea talk about how men don't listen.

I find the Wild Dog = Oliver to be very annoying and I hope it bites them badly.  The EPs were lucky that Caity Lotz made such a good Canary because iconic figures aren't interchangeable.  And now they're trying it again with Tina.

I forgot about that one.  It seems strange to me.  The first rumor was that Wild Dog was wanted for a movie.  Now instead of making him his own character they are trying to sell him as Oliver 2.0 which is why   I thought at one point maybe they were going to run 2 teams instead of one large team with Wild Dog in charge of the B team but I'm not sure anymore.  I don't know what his overall reception has been. I've seen more negative than positive but I don't read the comic friendly sites so they might love him. I just thought the shift was strange.  Instead of letting us decide who he is they are telling us in the dialogue.

I think it's interesting that Dig is being removed from the A story again just as they begin to introduce new characters (Talia & Tina).  Lance is in 5.12 (based on something SA said) and shares scenes with Rene (who was in a suit & tie in the BTS pics).  Don't know if he's back before then.  I speculated earlier that maybe he was sent to rehab to avoid dealing with his reaction to LL/BC/BS visit.  Maybe not. 

[BkWurm1]

On 12/8/2016 at 7:02 AM, LeighAn said:

I'm putting this out there as a long spec Felicity is the one who leaves town this season and next season Oliver (and maybe Diggle) bring her back. 

Sorry, I've been speculating that since before the start of the season, lol.  Though to be fair, I also speculated about at the start of last season as well.  One of these seasons I'm going to be right, ha,ha,ha.  

On 12/8/2016 at 7:58 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

My guess is that Prometheus might have let Billy go if it wasn't for the information Evelyn provided. Up until now (I think) Prometheus has just killed bad cops that were a threat to GA or himself.

So instead of ignoring or injuring Billy, Prometheus sets him up to be killed by Oliver. I do think on the surface SA's comment works.

I also think SAs jokes have a lot more truth to them then initially expected.

That first cop that he killed that was on the phone  agreeing to pick up diapers, I don't recall there being anything he did that was either a threat to Prometheus (apart from being one of many named to the task force) or to GA.  His random death was why I thought Billy was going to be Prometheus's plant.  Now I'm confused why he died.  

On 12/8/2016 at 8:13 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

It absolutely could be about getting to Felicity. We know there's a Felicity/Prometheus scene of some sort in 510 and, Felicity has a new storyline starting in 5B.

I don't particularly want to see a Felicity goes Dark or Felicity becomes a killer storyline but, I think it's possible given everything she's been through

I think if they intended to do a Felicity goes dark they would have been dropping hints, like her not acting like her self or showing her approving of some action that crosses lines.  Stuff like that to foreshadow it.  Or even a line about only not turning into a homicidal maniac because of Mayo or something.  But there hasn't been any hints or notes of that stuff, so unless it's a late random story choice, I think it's unlikely.  

I don't want to see her go evil, but I would not mind at all an episode or two where she kind of rages and just gets scary while wielding her power.  She's always used it for good, but imagine if her evil twin showed up?  Hee!

On 12/8/2016 at 11:50 AM, insomniadreams88 said:

I'm assuming the Russian vodka is just another thing like the comment about a Twitter thing or whatever with a Russian reporter? (I'm not rewatching that scene to check that fact.) I wouldn't even be surprised if they explain the reporter's absence in an upcoming episode by having Oliver say she's in Russia for a story ... and still not finding that suspicious. Then that could lead to the Bratva episode? 

At this point, I really want the reporter to completely screw over Oliver and for Thea to just tell him she warned him. But I'm instead expecting everyone to comfort him and tell him he couldn't have known it would happen. 

I'm still expecting the reporter to have been won over by Oliver's inspirational journey...which she tells him as she's getting on a one way bus out of town.  ;)

Quote

Laurel

Good Lord!  How in hell are we still having to talk about her?  Raises fist to the heavens.  

[Velocity23]

Where would Felicity go in this scenario where she leaves? Technically she and Oliver both left at the end of s3. 

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Where would Felicity go in this scenario where she leaves? Technically she and Oliver both left at the end of s3. 

Vegas to spend time with her Momma? Or Maybe Noah comes back in last few episodes and convinces her to leave with him to wherever

[LeighAn]

If they wanted her to leave they could find a reason for her. Even something like she goes and gets a mundane IT job some where or something. It's just a spec I'm throwing out there based on my reaction to the MSF. It probably won't end up being true haha 

[apinknightmare]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

That first cop that he killed that was on the phone  agreeing to pick up diapers, I don't recall there being anything he did that was either a threat to Prometheus (apart from being one of many named to the task force) or to GA.  His random death was why I thought Billy was going to be Prometheus's plant.  Now I'm confused why he died.  

I was confused by the whole "I'm not going to kill him, I'm going to make him wish he were dead" thing wrt what actually happened in the episode, because I assumed all actions taken against the team were committed specifically for Oliver's manpain. But Oliver likely has only a modicum of concern about Curtis's marriage breaking up, and even though he was the one who broke Diggle out of prison, Lyla led that charge, and Diggle (eventually) went along with it. Oliver did have a hand in Billy's death, but only because he was tricked into it - something that Felicity was immediately understanding about. 

Either Prometheus's whole plan is just a cool line they could use as a hook in trailers that never amounts to much (like with Slade's "corrupt the ones he loves" spiel), or Oliver's going to wish he was dead because Prometheus targets the people who work with him and destroys their lives simply because they're part of Oliver's life. I guess they're going for the latter, and that's why Billy - the guy who Felicity could barely get herself to refer to as her boyfriend - got killed? Hardly a life ruiner, but I guess there wasn't anything else to take from her since she doesn't seem to have a job, any prospects, or any friends outside of her Arrow circle. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

59 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

If they wanted her to leave they could find a reason for her. Even something like she goes and gets a mundane IT job some where or something. It's just a spec I'm throwing out there based on my reaction to the MSF. It probably won't end up being true haha 

The perfect scenario for her leaving would be related to something that happened like the situation with Billy. I dont see her going to Donna honestly. 

[insomniadreams88]

Felicity deserves a vacation. The last one she had was, what? End of season 3 when Oliver was leaving and asked her to go with him but she was then still helping the team? 

The thing is, I wonder if the writers would just see her leaving as leaving the team again and they might feel like they've written that enough already? But let her take a break and not have someone/something bring her back before she's ready. If anyone deserves that, it's her. Let her take the time off and then return when she decides to, not because something they need her for brings her back. 

[Velocity23]

Maybe Felicity needs to feel a purpose. We still don't know what she decides to do in regard to the chip teased in s4. I dont think she would just leave if she is in the process of creating something purposeful. 

[tv echo]

13 hours ago, Chaser said:

KC was their source?! Lol

I flipped thru CG twitter and he did a write up of the diner scene. I can't link on my mobile but brief recap:  Oliver, Curtis, WD are at the diner talking about finding someone. The scene moves to an alley/parking lot where GA approachs Tina about coming to Star City. Tina's stunt double is also there so some type of action.

Does CG normally know what the scene is about? I feel like he normal describes what he sees not the dialogue. 

Im curious about what makes them seek out Tina to join the Team. An anti vigilant cop from another city seems an odd choice for recruitment. I wonder if the police is super duper corrupt again and they are looking for a cop to trust on the force? 

http://canadagraphs.weebly.com/arrow-blog/arrow-shoots-a-couple-scenes-for-a-season-5-episode-511-stephen-amell-rick-gonzalez-echo-kellum-and-newcomer-juliana-harkavy-on-set

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I was confused by the whole "I'm not going to kill him, I'm going to make him wish he were dead" thing wrt what actually happened in the episode, because I assumed all actions taken against the team were committed specifically for Oliver's manpain. But Oliver likely has only a modicum of concern about Curtis's marriage breaking up, and even though he was the one who broke Diggle out of prison, Lyla led that charge, and Diggle (eventually) went along with it. Oliver did have a hand in Billy's death, but only because he was tricked into it - something that Felicity was immediately understanding about. 

Either Prometheus's whole plan is just a cool line they could use as a hook in trailers that never amounts to much (like with Slade's "corrupt the ones he loves" spiel), or Oliver's going to wish he was dead because Prometheus targets the people who work with him and destroys their lives simply because they're part of Oliver's life. I guess they're going for the latter, and that's why Billy - the guy who Felicity could barely get herself to refer to as her boyfriend - got killed? Hardly a life ruiner, but I guess there wasn't anything else to take from her since she doesn't seem to have a job, any prospects, or any friends outside of her Arrow circle. 

That's what confused me too. And left me underwhelmed in the end because it seemed he had some huge move to play against the people closer to Oliver to hurt him and in the end I can think of worse things he could have done to each of them. He could have kidnapped Felicity's mom or Diggle's family for example and killed one of them. That would have devastated them more than killing a guy Felicity had issues acknowledging as her boyfriend in public. If they wanted us to think Prometheus' plan was good they could have avoided to make the whole team, Felicity included, absolve Oliver right away.

[lexicon]

Their ideas are ALWAYS better than the execution of them, case in point the cliffhanger at the end of 3.21 or 3.22, when Oliver as Al Sahim trapped every single regular remember of TA except Thea in room with poisonous gas and walked away leaving everyone to die. Besides the fact that it was doubtful that they'd wipe out all of TA except Thea in one fell swoop, there were no stakes AT ALL since it had already been revealed to the audience AND the rest of TA that Oliver was simply pretending to be brainwashed. Any fear of what would happen was dependent on the audience accepting the incredible premise that Oliver Queen, a man who has proven that he would be willing to go to extraordinary lengths for those he loves, would willingly kill every single person that was close to him as part of a plan to defeat Ra's al Ghul.

Another thing that I am never getting over is how they had the perfect weapon to defeat DD in a post-Lazarus dipped Thea and then ..... NOTHING. They cleared Thea's bloodlust up lickety split and instead of her having an intriguing story that for once didn't require her to be MM's pawn or a footnote in Oliver's story, we were required to believe that Oliver was able to magically defeat DD because of the power of the ppl of SC's belief in him or the power of being good...or something. Argh

[Sunshine]

Regarding Curtis & Paul's break-up...I agree it seemed a little strange.  I think Paul leaving Curtis was their way of tying up that loose end in Curtis story.  Other than a brief mention in 5.02(?) he hasn't been mentioned/or seen since S4.  IMO, they were avoiding the possible backlash similar to Sara's or Clexa's (No clue which one died since I don't watch The 100) of killing off another LGBT character.  Otherwise they might have gone with Prometheus killing Paul and the drug being found during autopsy.       

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I was confused by the whole "I'm not going to kill him, I'm going to make him wish he were dead" thing wrt what actually happened in the episode, because I assumed all actions taken against the team were committed specifically for Oliver's manpain. But Oliver likely has only a modicum of concern about Curtis's marriage breaking up, and even though he was the one who broke Diggle out of prison, Lyla led that charge, and Diggle (eventually) went along with it. Oliver did have a hand in Billy's death, but only because he was tricked into it - something that Felicity was immediately understanding about. 

Either Prometheus's whole plan is just a cool line they could use as a hook in trailers that never amounts to much (like with Slade's "corrupt the ones he loves" spiel), or Oliver's going to wish he was dead because Prometheus targets the people who work with him and destroys their lives simply because they're part of Oliver's life. I guess they're going for the latter, and that's why Billy - the guy who Felicity could barely get herself to refer to as her boyfriend - got killed? Hardly a life ruiner, but I guess there wasn't anything else to take from her since she doesn't seem to have a job, any prospects, or any friends outside of her Arrow circle. 

To be fair, I think anyone that hadn't already gone through what Oliver (and Felicity as well) had gone through would have found what happened life destroying.  But both Oliver and Felicity have already faced tragedy and come out stronger.  Boyfriend murdered by ex accidentally is not as bad as boyfriend taking the wrap for her in jail commits suicide.  Mother stabbed just to cause him pain trumps him tricked into causing someone he loves pain and taking an innocent life.  All are bad, but there is something cleaner about having a bad guy to blame in Felicity's case and nothing is worse than your mother's last words being "Close your eyes baby"

I get the impression that while Prometheus knows who his target is, he doesn't really know the fires they've walked through, so something that would have just wiped the floor with most people mentally, Oliver and Felicity - while still overwrought - are not broken.  

Curtis I now believe was attacked just so Paul would find out.  It was a reasonable guess the spouse wouldn't be happy about that.  Prometheus couldn't predict the outcome but he'd know he was setting up discord of some kind.  Same with Diggle.  It was a pretty unimaginative trap.  But effective.  What he did with Billy was effective too, just not nearly as damaging as he probably predicted.   

7 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Where would Felicity go in this scenario where she leaves? Technically she and Oliver both left at the end of s3. 

Because she left willingly at the end of S3, and willingly left the team after the break up, I tend to think any leaving she'd do now would be a no choice kind of thing.  So kidnapped, extorted or off trying to save someone.  Those are my guesses, though busy with starting her own company and getting some life altering tech on the market might qualify as off trying to save someone. 

16 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Regarding Curtis & Paul's break-up...I agree it seemed a little strange.  I think Paul leaving Curtis was their way of tying up that loose end in Curtis story.  Other than a brief mention in 5.02(?) he hasn't been mentioned/or seen since S4.  IMO, they were avoiding the possible backlash similar to Sara's or Clexa's (No clue which one died since I don't watch The 100) of killing off another LGBT character.  Otherwise they might have gone with Prometheus killing Paul and the drug being found during autopsy.       

I agree about the backlash.  After Lexa was killed, I wondered if that might mean Paul was saved, lol.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Sunshine]

I am rewatching 5.09 and noticed that the only pictures on The Wall originally were Lance, Diggle and Thea.  Evelyn brought the other pictures to him. He might have no clue what Oliver and Felicity have been through together. 

I also noticed that the Olicity FB scene starts with Felicity looking at a red pen immediately after Curtis says "I have to be true to who I am." It ends with FB Oliver saying "I believe in magic".  Next shot is Oliver telling Thea he remembers something.  The connection Prometheus doesn't know exists? :-)

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

I think Prometheus's plan isn't about killing TA or Oliver it's about causing a divide, taking his support system away. Lance is crossed out because Lance is in Rehab and not supporting Oliver. Diggle was removed by being sent to prison. Felicity was "removed" by Oliver killing Billy.

I guess this is supposed to show growth on Oliver's part and, show how strong TA is together. They (especially Felicity) were supposed to turn their back on Oliver after Billy. Instead they all stood firm with Oliver. I think that's what they were going for. 

[Willowtree]

On 2016-12-08 at 5:18 AM, Primal Slayer said:

Thank you. I'm just glad that I follow spoilers so my hopes are far from high. 

How many Canaries have their been until now? Sara, the proto-Canary (Laurel's Yao Fei), Laurel, the Black Canary, and Evelyn, the Wannabee-Canary! And now ANOTHER Black Canary might pop up like a Jack-In-The Box! It's becoming a bit like the Oprah show: you get a BC mask, and you get a BC mask and so on....I'm just glad to see Katie Cassidy again, in whatever role. However, I suspect that the writers are mostly using her return as a bait to lure back the LL/BC/BS/KC fans, which is a pity. There are lots of fans who're happy right now, believing that Laurel/BS will return to "Arrow" on a permanent basis, and I personally think that's far too optimistic.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Willowtree

[insomniadreams88]

21 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think Prometheus's plan isn't about killing TA or Oliver it's about causing a divide, taking his support system away. Lance is crossed out because Lance is in Rehab and not supporting Oliver. Diggle was removed by being sent to prison. Felicity was "removed" by Oliver killing Billy.

I guess this is supposed to show growth on Oliver's part and, show how strong TA is together. They (especially Felicity) were supposed to turn their back on Oliver after Billy. Instead they all stood firm with Oliver. I think that's what they were going for. 

Yep. Prometheus didn't really do his homework if he thought this would work. Kinda hope it's not his final plan. 

Also, too much of that was temporary. Sure, Lance is in rehab - for now. Diggle is back in prison - for now. And the whole Oliver/Felicity/Billy thing didn't even last a second before she blamed the right person. I feel like Prometheus needs to up his game. 

Oh, and if he thought that Curtis would turn his back on the team and choose Paul if he predicted an ultimatum, it's not like Curtis is the strongest member of the team and would have been a great loss. 

[statsgirl]

The plotting for this whole season seems bizarre to me.  If they do lure back the LL/KC fans, they're just going to be disappointed when she's only there for a handful episodes and then replace by Tina/NuCanary.  They're already disappointing Felicity and Thea fans.  Are the only fan groups they care about the canon comic book fans? I don't think there are enough of those to keep the show on air.

Speaking of smarts, I'm becoming convinced that Prometheus thinks that he's considerably smart than he really is.

I think Curtis was attacked to let Oliver/GA know that no one on his team is safe and Prometheus Knows All. In terms of the show, it was for to have everyone Oliver cares about "suffering" and to throw in the crumb of How Is It That Curtis Can Be On  The Team When He's Married And Paul Doesn't Know?

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Because she left willingly at the end of S3, and willingly left the team after the break up, I tend to think any leaving she'd do now would be a no choice kind of thing.  So kidnapped, extorted or off trying to save someone.  Those are my guesses, though busy with starting her own company and getting some life altering tech on the market might qualify as off trying to save someone.

I think it would have to be unwillingly.  No one doubted that Oliver would be back when he left after seasons 1 and 2, or that he and Felicity would be back after season 3. But if Felicity left willingly, a lot of people would think that she wasn't coming back, especially after the terrible way she's been written this season, and I suspect a number of people teetering on the "should I say or should I go now?" bubble would just walk away from the show..  Sure the EPs could guarantee she would be back but 1. not everyone reads spoilers and interviews and 2. I don't believe a work of what they say now anyway

Then again, I'm not sure the people running this should realize that.

I'm so disappointed that the "men only" field trip was a truth.  I was really counting on it being Oliver and Felicity as the original spoiler said.  Damn, I'm so sick of the sky-high levels of testosterone on this show.

Edited December 10, 2016 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Oh, and if he thought that Curtis would turn his back on the team and choose Paul if he predicted an ultimatum, it's not like Curtis is the strongest member of the team and would have been a great loss. 

I imagine Prometheus and Evelyn curled up on opposite ends of a couch eating popcorn and sharing a box of chocolates as she catches him up on all the hot goss concerning these people's relationships so he can make his move. Gilmore girls is playing in the background. There's sparkling cider - Prometheus may be a murderer, but he's against underage drinking.

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I hope Prometheus has another source because otherwise he's going off information from a 17-year-old and public knowledge about their personal lives? 

[Morrigan2575]

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. Prometheus didn't really do his homework if he thought this would work. Kinda hope it's not his final plan. 

Also, too much of that was temporary. Sure, Lance is in rehab - for now. Diggle is back in prison - for now. And the whole Oliver/Felicity/Billy thing didn't even last a second before she blamed the right person. I feel like Prometheus needs to up his game. 

Oh, and if he thought that Curtis would turn his back on the team and choose Paul if he predicted an ultimatum, it's not like Curtis is the strongest member of the team and would have been a great loss. 

I'm guessing this is supposed to be the start of his main plan.

[way2interested]

30 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm so disappointed that the "men only" field trip was a truth.  I was really counting on it being Oliver and Felicity as the original spoiler said.  Damn, I'm so sick of the sky-high levels of testosterone on this show.

The Oliver and Felicity searching part, IIRC, is for 510 while the men trip was for 511, so both can still happen.

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, way2interested said:

The Oliver and Felicity searching part, IIRC, is for 510 while the men trip was for 511, so both can still happen.

You are correct, it's two separate trips. One is out of town and, one is in SC. They take place in different episodes.

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think Prometheus's plan isn't about killing TA or Oliver it's about causing a divide, taking his support system away. Lance is crossed out because Lance is in Rehab and not supporting Oliver. Diggle was removed by being sent to prison. Felicity was "removed" by Oliver killing Billy.

I guess this is supposed to show growth on Oliver's part and, show how strong TA is together. They (especially Felicity) were supposed to turn their back on Oliver after Billy. Instead they all stood firm with Oliver. I think that's what they were going for. 

It reminds of that Buffy episode in season 4 I think it was called The Yoko Ono Effect or something, where Spike plants ideas in the Scooby Gangs heads and get them all turning on each other so that Buffy doesn't have her support system when the big bad attacks. 

I never thought about the fact that if Prometheus doesn't want to kill Oliver that maybe his plan is to "kill" Team Arrow which would actually be a refreshing change for the season long Villan from destroying Star City

[Sunshine]

 They are looking for several people in 5.10 it seems - Prometheus's mother, Oliver's trainer from Russia, and BC.  Do they stumble across "Tina" in their search for Oliver's trainer?  Talia appears in 5.10 but perhaps only in flashbacks.  The sides did refer to her as the best female fighter someone has ever seen. 

5.10 "Who Are You" following 5.09 "What We Leave Behind" sounds like more than who is LL?  My guess is the characters, primarily Oliver, decide who they are going to be going forward.  Oliver has always focused on the bad.  Maybe it's time for him to focus on the good he has done.  From the preview, Diggle is in jail and is now willing to legally fight for his freedom.  I don't know who LL is at this point but I have to wonder if her main purpose is to destroy THE Black Canary Statue.  BS's sonic scream would do that.  (Maybe she goes to see the statue is startled and screams.) It would also clue Oliver in to the fact that she's not his LL.  Destroying the statue makes sense if the plan is to use Black Canary as a mantle going forward.  (Note: It's possible there was a worldwide casting call because IIRC none of the 3 live action Black Canary's were widely accepted - 80's Birds of Prey, Smallville or KC's LL.  They need an actress who can sell the role physically-for transitions-as well as a human worth rooting for.)

How is this for a reach :-)... A certain poster* on here is very certain Olicity is getting back together sooner than expected.  Another* thinks by the end of February sweeps.  There were rumors that NuBC might be for Wild Dog.   Some dismissed this when Juliana Harkavy was cast because of height and looks.  Carly Pope was dismissed as a romantic interest because of age & CW's history.  However, since right before the 100th episode they have been trying to sell Rene as Oliver 2.0. (Examples cited earlier in the thread.)  So maybe not so far fetched? 

*I know the names of the posters.  I am just not sure if it's appropriate to name them or not so I didn't.        

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sunshine

[insomniadreams88]

I almost hope Tina is for WD because otherwise I need the show to stop bringing up his past/ex/etc and spending so much time on him. And if she is his ex and they're planning to make her a LI for Oliver anyway, just no. Especially since WD isn't going anywhere and while I may not have minded him in 509, a lot of work needs to be done with his character before I'd consider one day maybe thinking about liking him. I don't need the awkwardness that would result from Oliver dating WD's ex with WD's current attitude. 

And having WD know her in the past would therefore make it somewhat more believable that they'd go to recruit her because he could vouch for her. 

ETA: The boys only road trip would also make sense. Oliver takes WD because he knows Tina and takes Curtis to get his mind off Paul leaving I guess? 

Edited December 10, 2016 by insomniadreams88

[Morrigan2575]

I think Who Are You is as much about Prometheus as it is about LL/BS. 

Of course it could be about all of them. Team Arrow deciding individually and collectively who they are in the wake of Evelyn's betrayal and Prometheus' attacks.

[wonderwall]

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think Who Are You is as much about Prometheus as it is about LL/BS. 

Of course it could be about all of them. Team Arrow deciding individually and collectively who they are in the wake of Evelyn's betrayal and Prometheus' attacks.

I also think that it'll be a direct tie to the line “I have to be true to who I am.” which was said a couple of times in the MSF. I have a feeling this episode is one where Felicity will try to figure who she is after all the tragedy in her life and try to be true to that as well...

Edited December 10, 2016 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

That's a good point, they hammered that "be true to who I am" thing in this episode.

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I also think that it'll be a direct tie to the line “I have to be true to who I am.” which was said a couple of times in the MSF. I have a feeling this episode is one where Felicity will try to figure who she is after all the tragedy in her life and try to be true to that. 

Since BFS just reiterated that TPTB really do have a plan for Felicity in the S5b, no for really real this time, I bet it ties into that story line. Perhaps, it's starting Smoak Technologies. I hope it doesn't take her away from the team because we already did that in S3 when she was stuck on Palmer Island and it sucked. 

I'll never understand why TPTB will write away from dynamics that are working e.g. OTA. I've seen it on so many shows recently (Sleepy Hollow, later season of Justified, etc.,) and it never makes the show better. I suppose writers get bored, but I think you can add new characters without completely shafting what makes the show fun to watch. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

Since BFS just reiterated that TPTB really do have a plan for Felicity in the S5b, no for really real this time, I bet it ties into that story line. Perhaps, it's starting Smoak Technologies. I hope it doesn't take her away from the team because we already did that in S3 when she was stuck on Palmer Island and it sucked. 

I wouldn't be worried about her being stuck on an island because now she's directly tied to the main villain in a way she wasn't before...

[apinknightmare]

Quote

There were rumors that NuBC might be for Wild Dog.   Some dismissed this when Juliana Harkavy was cast because of height and looks.  Carly Pope was dismissed as a romantic interest because of age & CW's history.  However, since right before the 100th episode they have been trying to sell Rene as Oliver 2.0. (Examples cited earlier in the thread.)  So maybe not so far fetched? 

I don't feel particularly confident about anything regarding Tina. 

It does seem like they're setting up some kind of a personal arc with Wild Dog given the way they've been sprinkling bits of his past here and there, and I could definitely see them using a romance to soften him up a bit - and the casting description for Tina reads as someone who might be his type.

I thought Oliver and Susan would be done by the MSF, paving the way for a romance with this new BC in 5B, but clearly he and Susan are just getting started. I do believe SA that Oliver and Susan haven't slept together - only because with so many of the Russian clues being dropped it seems clear that Susan would know what his Bratva tattoo stood for, and I don't think for a second that reveal would happen offscreen.  I think that's still coming up and is going to be a plot point of some sort - and since there's only one report of CP possibly being on set somewhat recently, who knows how long that's going to drag out. Although I suppose Tina could be around and getting to know Oliver in a way that makes her a good choice for him after things blow up with Susan, whenever that happens? 

Though, now that Oliver's killed Felicity's boyfriend, it's ick enough (to me) that he went to Susan to comfort his hurt feels afterward, but him having killed Felicity's boyfriend and then taking up with a member of the team right in front of her face on top of that? Yikes. I totally think they'd do it - no one on this show seems to think about how anything will come across ever - but I hope they don't.

[statsgirl]

"Who Are You?" is a line I associated with Babylon 5.  I wish these writers would stop referencing it because they really come out badly in comparison.

As long as Oliver is with Susan, he can't be with Felicity and they're going to drag that out as long as possible.  It's totally crap writing, that the OTA has to be dating other people to show that they can't be together, because hey, there are a lot of reasons they could be apart, but my expectations for this show have hit the bottom. Only The Flash is worse.

MG said that they get a lot of story mileage out of Oliver being a dumbass.  But when they keep hitting the same beats over and over (Oliver is blinded by the sex and doesn't realize Isabel/Susan is out to get him), it makes each time less and less effective.

25 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Since BFS just reiterated that TPTB really do have a plan for Felicity in the S5b, no for really real this time, I bet it ties into that story line. Perhaps, it's starting Smoak Technologies. I hope it doesn't take her away from the team because we already did that in S3 when she was stuck on Palmer Island and it sucked. 

Remember how they swore up and down that they would do Felicity's Havenrock arc justice?  5x02 to 5x03 they said. 

My money's on Felicity starting up Smoak Technologies because Curtis needs a storyline now that he's split from Paul

25 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'll never understand why TPTB will write away from dynamics that are working e.g. OTA. I've seen it on so many shows recently (Sleepy Hollow, later season of Justified, etc.,) and it never makes the show better. I suppose writers get bored, but I think you can add new characters without completely shafting what makes the show fun to watch. 

The problem is that the audience doesn't get bored.  Throwing in a ton of stuff I don't want to see isn't going to make me more excited to tune in.  Arrow season 5, like season 3, feels like I'm parched from thirst and they only let me have little dribbles of water and sometimes not even that.

[insomniadreams88]

I worry that if Felicity's arc is her own company, it's going to become just as much about Curtis as her. 

I worry that they're going to have Felicity be single now for the foreseeable future because her boyfriend was just killed. So they'll feel like they can write Oliver/another LI because of that. Since they didn't see anything wrong in having Oliver make that scene with the team about him and then go to Susan while Felicity's crying alone, I half expect Felicity to say something about having to be alone now and then having to watch Oliver with someone else (Susan, Tina, etc.) as someone actually pining (since IMO she hasn't done that on screen yet), especially after that very awkward meet at the holiday party. (Maybe Felicity can comment on how hot Tina is while she trains in the lair if she ends up being Oliver's LI.) 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Since I still think Oliver is playing Susan I think they could wrap them up pretty quickly (as soon as the plot requires for her investigation to mess things up for Oliver). There's the problem though of her filming Suits until they were filming 513 I think so they could be dating off screen for a while. Or she filmed for both shows and the paps didn't spot her.

I hope they won't write Tina as a LI for wild puppy because I honestly have zero interest to know more about him  and I also don't see them well together because she is very tall. The writers could go for it though since they seem to love him.

I have no idea what Felicity's arc might be but I could see them making her start her own company in future seasons more than now..it could be something she wants to try on her own to get to Prometheus or to be able to keep people safe after what happened to her boyfriend..I don't know.

[AyChihuahua]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

http://canadagraphs.weebly.com/arrow-blog/arrow-shoots-a-couple-scenes-for-a-season-5-episode-511-stephen-amell-rick-gonzalez-echo-kellum-and-newcomer-juliana-harkavy-on-set

So @HighHopes was correct and truthful about Juliana being there. 

[Cleanqueen]

I have this strong Feeling Oliver knows something is up with Susan, I am hoping thats another shocking moment for the audience where we are clued in to him knowing what she's trying to do. It's like everyone around him is telling him she's bad news but Oliver is going to her, he's a dumb guy sometimes but can't be that dumb.

I can't see felicity's arc being about Smoak Tech because they said that her story was starting in 5x02 and playing dividends until 5x12..and the only thing she has been doing thus far is recruiting Team Arrow members. Her saying she should've vetted Evelyn better might clue us in to what she plans on doing esp with Tina coming on board. I just hope it's something that is her own.

I hope they're at least smart enough to not give Tina a LI, one sure way to make her hated is to start a relationship with Oliver or push her towards the most hated newbie.

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

So @HighHopes was correct and truthful about Juliana being there. 

Tina isn't at the diner though

[DrSpaceman10]

12 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

So @HighHopes was correct and truthful about Juliana being there. 

So at least some parts of the leaked sides were accurate. Her name is Tina and she and Oliver have some sort of alley scene together. 

[calliope1975]

16 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I can't see felicity's arc being about Smoak Tech because they said that her story was starting in 5x02 and playing dividends until 5x12..and the only thing she has been doing thus far is recruiting Team Arrow members. Her saying she should've vetted Evelyn better might clue us in to what she plans on doing esp with Tina coming on board. I just hope it's something that is her own.

I really hope finding the new BC isn't Felicity's big arc, but I'm stumped at anything that's been going on in her life from 502 that would still be resonating in 512. Mostly because she hasn't been doing much. Will she start a charitable foundation for expired condiments? 

[Cleanqueen]

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I really hope finding the new BC isn't Felicity's big arc, but I'm stumped at anything that's been going on in her life from 502 that would still be resonating in 512. Mostly because she hasn't been doing much. Will she start a charitable foundation for expired condiments? 

ROFL God I hope not. Im stumped too and before 5x09 and a mention of a start up, Smoak Tech never crossed my mind.They say it's something that doesn't involve her relationship with Oliver, but what about her relationship with the Green Arrow?

[statsgirl]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Felicity's next Big Storyline was vetting Tina to make sure she's not going to turn like Evelyn. Not that she could have known Evelyn would turn since she only did for plot and because she found out Oliver was the old Hood.

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I wouldn't be worried about her being stuck on an island because now she's directly tied to the main villain in a way she wasn't before...

She was tied to Ra's al Ghul because Oliver her true love "died' because of him. She was tied to Damian Darhk because he paralyzed her.  This is the least she's been tied to a villain since Slade.  I don't see her trying harder to catch Prometheus because he killed Billy than she has gone after DD or Malcolm Merlyn.

40 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I have this strong Feeling Oliver knows something is up with Susan, I am hoping thats another shocking moment for the audience where we are clued in to him knowing what she's trying to do. It's like everyone around him is telling him she's bad news but Oliver is going to her, he's a dumb guy sometimes but can't be that dumb.

Remember Isabel?  You can't get much dumber than working with and sleeping with the woman who not only been bitchy to people you care about but is trying to dismantle your family's legacy.

If Oliver knew that Susan was shady, why did he go to her when he was feeling so vulnerable after killing Billy and open up to her, seeking comfort?  Worst time in the worst to be with someone you don't want to expose your secrets to.

ETA:  I guess I'm just so disappointed with the quality of the writing this season and the stupidity of the msf that I can't see how it's going to get better.

Edited December 10, 2016 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

Didn't they also mention her father? That her storyline doesn't necessarily involve her connection to Oliver or her father?

ETA found the quote

Quote

We’re positioning her to do something in the second half of the year that is really, really key, and that isn’t about her relationship with Oliver or even necessarily her father or her mother. It’s really new territory for her, and we’ve very excited about it. Some big things are going to happen with Felicity.”

Hmm, new territory (to me) rules out Smoak Technology and perhaps recruiting masks.

What it could be, is beyond me. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Morrigan2575