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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

It's sad that we can't really say if recycling the line was intentional or not, LOL. I'm also laughing at the site that reviewed the episode saying he wants to see more of this Oliver but hated the exact same scene between Oliver and Felicity last year. Oh well! 

Especially if all of the moments we see the "depth of love" Oliver has for Laurel are all recycled Olicity moments. 

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Guest

Guest

It looks like Oliver has flashes of the Gambit sinking and his dad shooting himself, so I guess there'll be other flashbacks too. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Moira and Laurel dying again or something to clue Oliver in that they're dead and the world isn't real.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

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I think the thing that annoyed me the most about that scene with Curtis is that hacking into an alien spaceship line shouldn't be his. The EPs have specifically made it clear that Curtis isn't the hacker, Felicity is. So it should've been Felicity's line considering it's HER livelihood. I'm honestly really annoyed that Felicity isn't allowed to touch the hardware stuff but Curtis is allowed to infringe upon the software things -_-

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LeighAn

LeighAn

Because when it's comic canon romance instantly becomes amazing story telling and honouring the characters and not that stupid shitty teenage girl drama that has no place on an action show and is ruining the Green Arrow comics foreva.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

I think the thing that annoyed me the most about that scene with Curtis is that hacking into an alien spaceship line shouldn't be his. The EPs have specifically made it clear that Curtis isn't the hacker, Felicity is. So it should've been Felicity's line considering it's HER livelihood. I'm honestly really annoyed that Felicity isn't allowed to touch the hardware stuff but Curtis is allowed to infringe upon the software things -_-

Yep. Makes me glad that we have those clips in the trailer of just Felicity and Cisco bursting in with the "tech support" line and also on the Waverider. 

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Because when it's comic canon romance instantly becomes amazing story telling and honouring the characters and not that stupid shitty teenage girl drama that has no place on an action show and is ruining the Green Arrow comics foreva.

Exactly. Never mind that we probably won't get a full explanation as to why Oliver changed when before he even got on the Gambit, he didn't want to move in with Laurel. And I'm just confused about the Oliver/Sara dynamic in this alt. world. Did they ever hook up? Are they going to completely retcon that because they realize that if they don't, having Oliver and Laurel getting married makes even less sense than it already does with what we knew about their relationship before the Gambit? 

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catrox14

catrox14

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I think the thing that annoyed me the most about that scene with Curtis is that hacking into an alien spaceship line shouldn't be his. The EPs have specifically made it clear that Curtis isn't the hacker, Felicity is. So it should've been Felicity's line considering it's HER livelihood. I'm honestly really annoyed that Felicity isn't allowed to touch the hardware stuff but Curtis is allowed to infringe upon the software things -_-

Yup. Exactly. It's a pattern they started at the beginning of this season and it still scares me because it's slowly making Felicity obsolete. I mean why would they keep a non-masked female superhero  around when they can just replace her with a masked male one. I mean they already set the precedent with swapping genders willy nilly with  Baby!Sara and JJ. I hate it so much.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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13 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

 Has anyone said just how many flashbacks are being shown? We know of at least 2 from @Morrigan2575's guesses ...

2 are shown in the preview from last night, first kiss and date from 301. We know from GATV tweets that their first meet in 103 is also shown. Beyond that, I have no idea.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Yup. Exactly. It's a pattern they started at the beginning of this season and it still scares me because it's slowly making Felicity obsolete. I mean why would they keep a non-masked female superhero  around when they can just replace her with a masked male one. I mean they already set the precedent with swapping genders willy nilly with  Baby!Sara and JJ. I hate it so much.

I'm not really worried about Felicity becoming obsolete per se, I don't think she ever will be. I'm just annoyed that they're struggling with Curtis to the point where they have to give him things Felicity usually does to make him relevant. I doubt we'll ever lose Felicity unless EBR wants to leave, they'd sooner write out Curtis who hasn't garnered much love this season. In fact most people are apathetic towards him. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Especially if all of the moments we see the "depth of love" Oliver has for Laurel are all recycled Olicity moments. 

I honestly don't understand how it doesn't make someone that ships them together uncomfortable. I'm picturing Oliver reusing some line he said to one of his girlfriends to Felicity and yikes, I'm cringing at the idea. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I honestly don't understand how it doesn't make someone that ships them together uncomfortable. I'm picturing Oliver reusing some line he said to one of his girlfriends to Felicity and yikes, I'm cringing at the idea. 

It makes me uncomfortable, but then I remember that Laurel is dead and never coming back, so that helps.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Just now, lemotomato said:

It makes me uncomfortable, but then I remember that Laurel is dead and never coming back, so that helps.

I meant if the opposite happened. This makes me cringe too and honestly as much as I didn't like Laurel I'd take her if it meant decent and original dialogue. It's not really a matter of favorite couple, but recycled lines give me second hand embarrassment, LOL.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

In not alien dream world, pre-Gambit Oliver was a douche canoe galore. He wasn't genuine. I can't see any line he would have used back in those days ever working with Felicity. He tried it with the laptop and again when she gave him the book, and he failed both times. Conversely, I can't see pre-Gambit Oliver ever telling anyone, "You're my always and I just want the chance to be yours." They are two dramatically different people. 

If it's not directly made clear in show tonight that those are recycled Olicity lines, I'm going to head canon it anyway that it's his mind's way of breaking free of alien control. Since the show can't be consistent with what they've already shown me, I'll make it up in order to not HulkSmash my TV.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

12 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

It makes me uncomfortable, but then I remember that Laurel is dead and never coming back, so that helps.

This and that the whole point will be closure with the dearly departed not being tied down by the past and Oliver choosing emphatically not to stay in that reality.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

Now I wonder if the decision to stall/write away from Olicity throughout 5A came before or because of the decision to make the L/O wedding a part of the 100th episode. They needed an event to bring all the characters, former and current, together in the dreamworld, so they went with wedding. (It couldn't be an Olicity wedding because they already wasted it in 416.) How much uglier (and nonsensical) would it have been if Oliver and Felicity were together in the real world with the rest of the 100th episode happening as is?

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tv echo

tv echo

From CBR interview with Bamford (posted in Spoilers thread):

Quote

There’s another big threat looming after Arrow deals with these extraterrestrials. How are you approaching Prometheus compared to Oliver?
There’s a duality happening with Prometheus’ origin in a way with Oliver. Oliver and Prometheus are basically a yin and yang, if you will. Two sides of a coin. I can’t really go into the approach of the character without giving too much away.

S4 - Oliver & Felicity were yin and yang.
S5 - Oliver & Prometheus are yin and yang. 

Just like Oliver's most important relationship is now - not with a person - but with Star City.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Now I wonder if the decision to stall/write away from Olicity throughout 5A came before or because of the decision to make the L/O wedding a part of the 100th episode. They needed an event to bring all the characters, former and current, together in the dreamworld, so they went with wedding. (It couldn't be an Olicity wedding because they already wasted it in 416.) How much uglier (and nonsensical) would it have been if Oliver and Felicity were together in the real world with the rest of the 100th episode happening as is?

I was thinking the same thing. And what would they have done if there hadn't been a crossover or way to bring in aliens (or metahumans, as another possibility)? What if Oliver and Felicity were still engaged? Would they have had Oliver hit his head (really hard, I guess?) and imagine all this if they were so determined to have the L/O wedding in 100? 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

It's also consistent with the EPs' bending over backwards this season to appease Laurel/BC/comic book fans - from the canonization of St. Laurel to her multiple mentions/appearances/legacy. I think the backlash over her death last season was bigger than they expected and they attribute the dropped ratings in 4B primarily, if not solely, to killing her character off. That's because MG has blinders on when it comes to criticism of the BMD.

If that is how they appease fans then they failed miserably. It didn't make any LL/BC/CB fans happym

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Chaser

Chaser

It looks like MG misspoke and it has been 10 years. For the answer of how everything got peachy, they just hand-waved it. A couple comments about how he has grown up so much. He and Laurel just worked things out.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
2 hours ago, tv echo said:

It's also consistent with the EPs' bending over backwards this season to appease Laurel/BC/comic book fans - from the canonization of St. Laurel to her multiple mentions/appearances/legacy. I think the backlash over her death last season was bigger than they expected and they attribute the dropped ratings in 4B primarily, if not solely, to killing her character off. That's because MG has blinders on when it comes to criticism of the BMD.

I'm not sure bringing back KC as Love Interest Laurel for one episode where she's still dead is exactly bending over backwards to appease her fans. She'd be BC if that was the case. Here she's just Laurel, in a wedding dress. If I was a Laurel fan, I'd be pissed. Lauriver fans might be happy, though I'm not sure why tbh. For the gifs, maybe?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Guest
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bijoux

bijoux

(edited)

There doesn't really need to be an explanation for why things changed. This isn't an alternate reality in which one change led to others, it's a hodge podge of these five people, their memories and wishes all scrambled into one. There's Thea reusing Oliver's lines from the pilot, him inexplicably having quick refelexes. It seems to me that things start getting weird really soon and that, yes, the recycled dialogue is an intentional tie to the real world, and not just cutesy nods to previous episodes.

I watched the preview and what most confuses me is where the eff areOliver and Laurel? Is it a bathroom, a spa, an indoor pool? The room looks crazy. And yeah, I'm counting on the last scene with Sara being after figuring out the dream world and she's mad that he's dissing Laurel and breaking her heart and that she will also be leaving her.

Edited by bijoux
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LeighAn

LeighAn

(edited)

I think the writers absolutely knew there would be back lash to killing Laurel that's part of why they did it. They want to have a game changing death and Laurel was the person who would cause the biggest reaction while also being a character who wouldn't leave a glaring hole in the show dynamic in the same way Diggle and Felicity would. 

I don't think Laurels appearance in the 100th is the writers mea culpa to those angry about Laurels death. I think her appearance is no different then Roberts and Moiras. I do think this season the writers are trying to maintain goodwill with the comic lovers with the action! new heroes! writing away from romance! but I don't think they harbor regrets over killing Laurel. 

A theory Ive been floating secretly in my head is there will be a slight bait switch happen like the writers are appealing to everything the comic crowd love in the first half of the season to show them that the show is an action driven comic show but also have an Olicity marriage or something romance heavy at the end of the season so they appeal to the other half of the fandom. 

Edited by LeighAn
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Starfish35

Starfish35

8 minutes ago, bijoux said:

There doesn't really need to be an explanation for why things changed. This isn't an alternate reality in which one change led to others, it's a hodge podge of these five people, their memories and wishes all scrambled into one. There's Thea reusing Oliver's lines from the pilot, him inexplicably having quick refelexes. It seems to me that things start getting weird really soon and that, yes, the recycled dialogue is an intentional tie to the real world, and not just cutesy nods to previous episodes.

Agreed.

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way2interested

way2interested

Just now, LeighAn said:

A theory Ive been floating secretly in my head is there will be a slight bait switch happen like the writers are appealing to everything the comic crowd love in the first half of the season to show them that the show is an action driven comic show but also have an Olicity marriage or something romance heavy at the end of the season so they appeal to the other half of the fandom. 

Honestly, I've been thinking the exact same thing for a while now too, especially if it ends up with Tina being BC/Oliver's LI (not necessarily saying I believe that's going to happen either, but if it did). Retreading s2 in a way like they're retreading s1 in a way, which I'm wondering might be part of the reason MG and SA are all grumbly about how some people are reacting (as if they want people to be patient but want to give no hint/help for waiting so it will be a surprise that people might not be sticking around to actually watch, which...not too great an idea)

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LeighAn

LeighAn

6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Honestly, I've been thinking the exact same thing for a while now too, especially if it ends up with Tina being BC/Oliver's LI (not necessarily saying I believe that's going to happen either, but if it did). Retreading s2 in a way like they're retreading s1 in a way, which I'm wondering might be part of the reason MG and SA are all grumbly about how some people are reacting (as if they want people to be patient but want to give no hint/help for waiting so it will be a surprise that people might not be sticking around to actually watch, which...not too great an idea)

Yeah well there is comparisons to be made with season 2. The cutesy Olicity scenes in the first half, love interests in the middle then wham bam shock reveal that Felicity is the person Oliver loves at the end. I don't know how successful they will be at a misdirect a second time around mainly because most are tired and feeling played by the show. 

But I would not be shocked if Oliver and Felicity ending the season married or having scenes/story beyond just the obligatory makeup scene. 

Whether it will make sense or feel rewarding and earnt is another question.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

(edited)

You know what I just thought of that made me really sad? What if in the dream world, Sara Diggle still exists? What if that's at the front of Diggle's mind now because he just found out Barry erased his daughter? (I just really miss Baby Sara.) 

Edited by insomniadreams88
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Starfish35

Starfish35

This might actually be more interesting than I thought.  I was wary of an extended trip though dreamland, but as @bijoux said, it seems like this reality starts glitching on them pretty quickly.  Sara has a bad reaction to the word "canary", and then upon meeting Ray has flashes of seeing him elsewhere.  I'm assuming the same thing is happening to Oliver and the others.  

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