S04.E02: The Candidate

[apinknightmare]

So basically what you want is for O/F to have less alone time?

[Chaser]

They are trying to fit everyone in and they are sucking at it.

 

It's why I can't stand the Diggle and Laurel bonding moments. I understand why some people are enjoying it, but it's so unearned. It feels like they are giving Laurel scenes that make more sense with Felicity. The thing is I would probably understand it given the state of Oliver and Diggle, but since they haven't been giving Diggle and Felicity any respect it just makes me resent Laurel more.

[Guest]

Yeah one thing this episode made me feel was that the team is overcrowded. Doesn't matter that they have a bigger lair now. There's too many of them. It doesn't work as well as it used to. Not to mention that they're having four of them in the field doing things Oliver could do by himself at one stage.

Maybe they'll improve this over time. We'll see.

[Chaser]

You know there is something wrong when the writers can make it work with the 7 characters from the crossover but can't with these 5.

 

And yeah, I realize it's very early in the season to make a statement like that but I don't care. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[BkWurm1]

It would feel more natural if they split the team up more, cause yeah, four of them is A LOT. 

[tangerine95]

Yeah the team is overcrowded,it doesn't work at all.I always knew they wouldn't be able to write that well.

Also it's annoying watching so many people in the field fighting when I know like 2 are enough and make it look much better.

I'm hoping this death takes care of that problem.

[Guest]

Like the scene where the four of them crash through the ceiling to save JDs daughter. Looks great visually but it didn't need all of them. This is when I start to worry they're going style over substance. But it's early in the season so I'll give them a pass for now.

[statsgirl]

I can see why it would feel like Felicity is cut off from the rest of the Team -- she's the only one not out in the field and she doesn't have any scenes with any of them other than Oliver.  Thea's scenes are with Oliver or Laurel and Diggle has decided that Laurel is his new BFF.

 

I got the impressions that Quentin signed on with DD for some reason of his own and he's only now realizing that he made a deal with the devil.

 

I think the whole point was to get Jessica Danforth to step down. Although I'm not sure what the point of keeping Star City mayorless is in the long run, unless Darhk himself is going to run against Oliver? Or plant one of his followers to run against him? I'm not sure what the point of scaring off candidates is though, unless Darhk wants to run unopposed, or the writers wanted to wait until Oliver announced his candidacy to reveal that DD is going to run against him/have one of his guys run against him.

I think he just wants to destroy the city.  It's not just that he doesn't want a mayor, he also killed the DA and a couple of top officials last week and tried to blow up the train station.

 

He wants to destroy Star City for some reason.  I hope we find it out fairly soon why he's gunning for it because it's not like it's Gotham or Metropolis, right?

 

How convenient that Thea's craziness didn't overtly manifest itself until after Oliver was back in Star City to notice it.  How convenient that Laurel and Thea don't have a heart-to-heart about what happened to Thea in NP until now, despite living together for 5 months.

 

Did Laurel even ask Thea if she wanted to return to NP or just tell her?  If Oliver had been the one to tell Thea he was taking her back to NP to help her, she would've rebelled and said she can make her own decisions - and he'd be criticized in-show for being bossy and controlling.

True. 

 

I think Laurel wouldn't get the same criticism because even though it seems like she's bullying Thea to go, she is letting Thea make amends for having killed Sara.  When Roy was telling Thea about having killed the cop while under mirakuru, I thought that one of his regrets was that he couldn't ever make amends for it.

 

Of course the other reason Laurel needs to take Thea is to get her to convince Daddy Dearest to do the deed.

 

I think Oliver didn't tell Thea about Malcolm's forebodings about the Lazarus Pit because she seemed okay when he left Starling City and he didn't want to jinx it/put ideas into her head.

 

One little detail I missed that the AV Club review by Alasdair Wilkins pointed out...

I went and checked out all the Borg Queen/Seven of Nine scenes as soon as I heard Jeri Ryan was coming on.  Susanna Thompson could really do menacing even back then. Too bad she is no longer on the show, they could have had fun together.

 

I thought jbuffyangel had a good point that the reason we got to see Sara's corpse was that MG loves his BuffytVS and it was an homage to that show.

 

ETA:

 

Like the scene where the four of them crash through the ceiling to save JDs daughter. Looks great visually but it didn't need all of them.

I wondered why Laurel had to go with Diggle when he was the one carrying Madison to safety and then I realized that if they got attacked, Laurel needed to fight because Diggle's arms were full of Madison.

Edited October 16, 2015 by statsgirl

[kismet]

They better not have Oliver say "Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world" I might throw something at my tv if he does. 

 

 

No, it will be someone else though. And then they'll be marked for death. In six months. LOL.

Does it work if Laurel says it to her self in the mirror Stuart Smalley style? Or does that nullify the temptation of the fates?

[bijoux]

I can see why it would feel like Felicity is cut off from the rest of the Team -- she's the only one not out in the field and she doesn't have any scenes with any of them other than Oliver.  Thea's scenes are with Oliver or Laurel and Diggle has decided that Laurel is his new BFF.

 

I thought jbuffyangel had a good point that the reason we got to see Sara's corpse was that MG loves his BuffytVS and it was an homage to that show.

There was a bit where Felicity was at the computers and Thea was behind her with a hand on the chair. I thought that was a nice choice by Willa or the director. It showed some awareness that the characters should be brought closer together.

I just thought the corpse looked ridiculously bad.

[kismet]

Quentin is still marked for death since he activated the Laurel Lance saving the world death curse. 

 

I think it has to be more than a time limit and going insane for a bit. That's why I'm hoping for my Captain Jack like immortal theory. 

But he might have gotten saved by the year long cliched "BAD HEART" that did not impact his ability to do anything, except apparently hear the truth from his daughter. It's a time-old TV antidote.

[bijoux]

I was wondering about a guy that Felicity mentioned Lonnie Machlin had connections to earlier in the thread and found Guggenheim answered someone on this matter. So here it is if anyone else was wondering.
 

 

andjustforthismoment asked:
Howdy! My friend Mel noticed that the name Rick Pinzolo was mentioned a few times in ep 4x02. Damien D mentioned him as did Felicity Smoak, along with a "yuck-he-is-disgusting" kind of face It made me think she knew him. So I looked his name up and found that he was a character from the TV show Wiseguy. He played a mobster. Now, it made me think that there is a connection between Damien and Felicity. Did they both know the Rick character from Las Vegas? Is this a clue in regards to her dad? thx

 

I’m a huge Wiseguy fan.  If you watch the show carefully, you’ll see a lot of Wiseguy Easter eggs.

 

 

[cambridgeguy]

 

So, it's not that he was against threatening someone's kid, he just didn't want Anarky doing it for whatever reason.

There's a difference between tough talk and actually kidnapping someone.  I can see DD being the type to think that taking a nontarget is beneath a sophisticated person like himself. 

 

Well Ollie, it's a good thing you don't have a secret double life since mayors (especially young former billionaire playboys) are followed around a lot and have around the clock security. 

[Primal Slayer]

So basically what you want is for O/F to have less alone time?

I want them to get a good balance. They want them to have cute moments each episode, they can find a way to do it that doesn't just have to involve them. Have Oliver give Felicity her lunch, kiss her on her cheek, and go off and then she talks to L/T/D about whatever.

[dtissagirl]

I want them to get a good balance. They want them to have cute moments each episode, they can find a way to do it that doesn't just have to involve them. Have Oliver give Felicity her lunch, kiss her on her cheek, and go off and then she talks to L/T/D about whatever.

 

I know I should ignore this, but I'll bite:

 

49 seconds before the "packed you lunch" scene, Diggle let Felicity hanging with her hand up for a high-five, and Laurel ignored her existence and just talked to Dig. What could Felicity possibly say to them?

[LisaM]

Really liked seeing Jeri Ryan as Jessica. I miss Moira Queen and Jeri reminded me a bit of Susannah Thompson.

 

Damian is a very good and believable criminal mastermind. He makes a much better villain than Slade. Still think it is Quentin in the ground.

 

Loved Felicity voicing the need for a code name -- and like the interaction with her new co-worker.

 

Laurel digging up Sara (gross!) can't possibly end well.

[apinknightmare]

I know I should ignore this, but I'll bite:

49 seconds before the "packed you lunch" scene, Diggle let Felicity hanging with her hand up for a high-five, and Laurel ignored her existence and just talked to Dig. What could Felicity possibly say to them?

And the whole of the first ep, where they all ignored her. I guess more group scenes with no one talking to her is just what we need!

[theacostov]

I want them to get a good balance. They want them to have cute moments each episode, they can find a way to do it that doesn't just have to involve them. Have Oliver give Felicity her lunch, kiss her on her cheek, and go off and then she talks to L/T/D about whatever.

I felt like in those moments in this episode they needed to be alone. He gave her the first day as a boss fern in the first scene and they had a heart to heart in the second. I don't feel the scenes would have been as poignant if people were hanging around in the back.

I'm all for cute moments around the team, but I don't think the point of these scenes were to be cute (that's just a by product of how they are) more as to let us know how the characters are feeling. But that's just me.

[dtissagirl]

And the whole of the first ep, where they all ignored her. I guess more group scenes with no one talking to her is just what we need!

 

Yeah. The way Team Arrowless treated Felicity so far makes me want LESS scenes between her and them, because I'm really not good with secondhand embarrassment moments, and Felicity was certainly embarrassed by the high-five thing. Yuck.

 

Please use your loud voice on Diggle ASAP, Felicity. And if that fails, a swift kick in the nuts will do.

[bijoux]

So, here's another sign of Oliver changing. There was no this is all my fault for not keeping watch over Thea. I didn't even catch it the first time around and I find it legit impressive. To quote, Who are you?

 

A thing I found funny is Dig telling in an urgent voice that Madison needed medical attention. I mean I've never been either kidnapped or had a broken bone, but Madison was only captive for a few hours and had a broken pinkie. It did not seem that dire. I'm all for getting the civilian out of there but the way it was presented seemed funny.

 

Speaking of Madison, what did she say she was getting her degree in? It's got no importance but I don't like that I could understand it. It was something psychology. I also didn't understand Thea's teasing. Whose backup dancer?

 

The actress in the flashback had a really bad accent. Another thing I didn't notice earlier.

[dtissagirl]

I'm all for cute moments around the team, but I don't think the point of these scenes were to be cute (that's just a by product of how they are) more as to let us know how the characters are feeling. But that's just me.

 

This is how I read that scene too. It was a moment between O/F that set up the rest of Felicity's plot for the episode. Oliver is supportive of her being CEO, and they wanted to show how excited Felicity was for the new gig -- because her excitement was gonna go downhill with every QC scene. Character-driven storylines are so rare in this show, but look! It happens sometimes.

 

And it went on, since the talk Oliver and Felicity had mid-episode was the turning point for Felicity in figuring out she had to bluff her way with the QC board to stop firing people. "Find another way" has been O/F's thing since 201. It's lovely to see it still is.

[tangerine95]

Oliver and Felicity are the only people in that team who actually feel like they like each other at all.The others are either jerks to them or ignore them so the two of the are the only positive thing in that lair for me right now.

Hope they solve the Diggle situation soon and he remembers Felicity has been his friend for years but right now he's on Laurel proping duty as well as Thea.Laurel can go on ignoring Felicity as far as I'm concerned,season 3 was more then enough of that friendship IMO.

Oliver and Felicity should have alone scenes and so far I never felt like it was forced just so they could be alone.The scene where he packs her lunch would have been kinda awkward if everyone else was there with them,its overcrowded there as it is.The other scene they had was a very private conversation about their life and coming back to Starling and Felicity was already alone when Oliver came in.I'm sure they'll also have moments around the team,they did in episode 1.

Edited October 16, 2015 by tangerine95

[SmallScreenDiva]

Madison got a degree in "ancient philosophy," according to closed captioning. I couldn't understand what she said either.

 

I'm glad we got a stunt sequence with Oliver in civilian gear, reminded me a lot of what was fun in Season 1. But it still doesn't make up for the fact the best of fighter was standing around on a roof while all the "fighters" were, well, fighting. That, too me, says too many people. I read a review that said it was great because the Green Arrow was supervising. I don't need GA to be supervising. That's not entertaining for me.

[apinknightmare]

They all made it clear that they don't want his supervision, so narratively that doesn't even make sense.

[bijoux]

Madison got a degree in "ancient philosophy," according to closed captioning. I couldn't understand what she said either.

 

I'm glad we got a stunt sequence with Oliver in civilian gear, reminded me a lot of what was fun in Season 1. But it still doesn't make up for the fact the best of fighter was standing around on a roof while all the "fighters" were, well, fighting. That, too me, says too many people. I read a review that said it was great because the Green Arrow was supervising. I don't need GA to be supervising. That's not entertaining for me.

Thanks. What did it say about dancing?

 

As for Oliver being up there, I've got nothing. I guess that's something the quorum voted on off screen.

[kismet]

Oliver and Felicity are the only people in that team who actually feel like they like each other at all.The others are either jerks to them or ignore them so the two of the are the only positive thing in that lair for me right now.

Hope they solve the Diggle situation soon and he remembers Felicity has been his friend for years but right now he's on Laurel proping duty as well as Thea.Laurel can go on ignoring Felicity as far as I'm concerned,season 3 was more then enough of that friendship IMO.

Oliver and Felicity should have alone scenes and so far I never felt like it was forced just so they could be alone.The scene where he packs her lunch would have been kinda awkward if everyone else was there with them,its overcrowded there as it is.The other scene they had was a very private conversation about their life and coming back to Starling and Felicity was already alone when Oliver came in.I'm sure they'll also have moments around the team,they did in episode 1.

I agree. I do feel like there was balance. And those moments might have been awkward in group setting. Plus it gives the other actors their precious time-off.

 

Plus could you imagine the uproar from newTA if OQ had the nerve to pack them lunch too, or buy them something. I can just see it now. The angry faces and accusations. Don't tell me to have a good day Ollie, you're not the boss of me! I can pack my own Damn Lunch! Stop trying to be my Dad, I already have two. They might have even given FS jealous stares, but that would mean they would have had to acknowledge her. I mean I'm joking. But then again, I'm not really. NewTA is an ungrateful lot when left to their own devices. Their group mentality is not an appealing one.

Edited October 16, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

Actually, upon rewatch, Laurel and Diggle were still in the room when Oliver handed Felicity her lunch. They were off to the side when Oliver was talking to Thea-Thea left, but Diggle and Laurel never did.

[Primal Slayer]

I know I should ignore this, but I'll bite:

49 seconds before the "packed you lunch" scene, Diggle let Felicity hanging with her hand up for a high-five, and Laurel ignored her existence and just talked to Dig. What could Felicity possibly say to them?

If this is deliberate then I'm fine with it if they plan on going somewhere with it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Thanks. What did it say about dancing?

 

Thea asked about Madison's plan to become "JT's" backup dancer, a reference to Justin Timberlake, I believe. Madison says that's always Plan B :)

 

You guys probably have discussed the cuteness that is the fern scene already but I just want to say I REALLY LOVE IT. From Felicity's excitement over being able to be "bossy" to Oliver's amused reaction at being poked to Felicity's face softening at the sight of the fern and her little "awww" to the packed lunch (wonder if they were slow-cooked eggs) to Oliver's pride and happiness when Felicity says "who are you?" We know they love each other but this is just another tangible manifestation of that love. I can't recall if I saw it on Twitter or Tumblr but someone said this is the equivalent of the hubby checking and making sure wife's tires are in good order. I love that when Oliver talks about him and Felicity, it's always a "we." 

 

Well, except for that declaration in the end. The show is probably going to gloss over it and just show Felicity supporting Oliver. But I wish they'd address it in the next episode because running for office is a massive deal, not just for the candidate but for everybody around him. The extra exposure, the pressure, etc. I want Felicity and Oliver to discuss it, especially since it looks like Felicity has concerns based on her reaction. But they probably won't.

Edited October 16, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[nksarmi]

I don't know - one of the things I have liked most about the first two episodes is how everyone is being used. 

 

- I LOVE the Oliver and Felicity alone moments - LOVE I tell you (so far - they are writing them how I think they should be with each other). 

- I LOVE that we are seeing everyone interact with Starling City people again (one of the things I think season three really missed was the "day job" aspect of the story - so I am very glad to have it back and I think they set up Oliver running for mayor perfectly.)

- But I also LOVE Laurel and Diggle interacting - come on, they have been working as a team (disjointed as it might be) for six months.  I don't need to have that moment between them be "earned" because I just liked it.  *** I even really enjoyed Laurel and Thea interacting (and I can't wait for their little girls road trip) even though I know it has some negative undertones for Laurel.  I am going to ignore those because yea, girl road trip lol.

- I also have loved the group action and fight scenes.  They have established that the ghosts are even better than the LoA and they are throwing enough people at them that it is believable that Oliver needs some backup so the group stuff works for me.  Did all four of them need to go after the girl?  Not really, but they also didn't know that he was working alone so it works for me.

- I hope they do more duo's operating in different spots with Felicity running coms for both of them kind of deals though because that will be the best way to use four in-field fighters in my opinion.

 

Oh I had a couple more thoughts....

 

I would actually enjoy it if Diggle is mad at Felicity too because she forgave Oliver so easily as long as they handle it and have the two of them have a nice moment independent of him making up with Oliver. 

 

And on the subject of bringing Sara back - I really can believe that this is something Thea would really get behind.  One, not only does she know what Oliver did for her, but she can put herself in the other person's shoes and ask herself if she would have done this to bring Ollie back when he was gone for five years - and I think her answer would be "hell yea."  Then there is also how she parallels with Roy - and the pain he felt for what he did to the cop.  Only Thea knows Sara and her pain could conceivably be much more.  Would Roy bring the cop back to his family if he could?  So there really are lots of reasons Thea would want to do this for HERSELF.  Unfortunately, the show rushed it and didn't make it about Thea the way they should have.

[apinknightmare]

 

- But I also LOVE Laurel and Diggle interacting - come on, they have been working as a team (disjointed as it might be) for six months.  I don't need to have that moment between them be "earned" because I just liked it.  *** I even really enjoyed Laurel and Thea interacting (and I can't wait for their little girls road trip) even though I know it has some negative undertones for Laurel.  I am going to ignore those because yea, girl road trip lol.

 

I agree in that I expect D&L to be friends and I don't need a friendship between them to feel earned. I do, however, need a moment like Diggle revealing a secret he kept from two people he worked with for two years to a person he's worked with for six months to be earned. 

 

 

I would actually enjoy it if Diggle is mad at Felicity too because she forgave Oliver so easily as long as they handle it and have the two of them have a nice moment independent of him making up with Oliver.

 

Personally, I hope they don't go there, because it makes Diggle seem petty as fuck. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Jediknight]

The writers are really hitting all the right notes with Olicity and Oliver/Thea (for the most part) so I'm not going to let the assinine stuff get to me . . . for now. Love the thought of Oliver picking out the fern and taking time out from vigilante-ing to pack Felicity's lunch. The only thing that would've made it more perfect is if he'd used something like this instead of a brown paper bag.

There are designers for lunch bags?  Oh my goodness.

 

Oliver defeated and killed Ra and he gets his ass kicked by a boy band reject?  Not buying it.  Come up with a convincing way for Thea to "save" the day, show.

It's best not to think about Oliver beating Ra's.  It's Ra's al Ghul, that's a massive depowering of someone.  The Ra's that's been present in every other media would have wiped out Team Arrow in about 10 minutes at most.

 

There is one way I can buy Oliver being able to beat Ra's, but have trouble with Anarky.  Ra's faked losing to see if Bruce Wayne would mourn his death.  Dude's still hung up on Bruce, and Oliver was a total rebound.  Oliver doesn't think this, so he overestimates his ability, and gets into trouble with Anarky.

[tarotx]

I think the reason Oliver isn't as dominate is he's not as present in the fights. Even with the no killing he was all in the fighting before this season. Now he knows he wants something different. Something more. It's not an easy switch from light to dark. He's looking for ways to get the job done with out having to go dark. It's a transition for him. He'll go dark to win the fight after the flash forward grave scene. Which I still think is either Quinton or Baby Mama.

I think with Thea, the reason Diggle and Laurel didn't notice her fits of crazy isn't that that the zest for violence is new. It's a couple of things. It's probably worsened by stress and with Oliver coming back-watching her, with having seen DD drain the life out of his man and with the Victim of the week being family friends, her stress is higher. But also the Increase and consistency of the team having to face the Ghost has caused fighting to be more regular and more hard core. She might have been on the edge of what a missions allowed all along but the missions weren't as life and death so her violence level was more controlled. She is probably going to have to learn control and learn to meditate to keep calm.

I think with Felicity the issue is she only talks with Oliver and those at Palmer's tech. She needs to have contact with one of the other regulars and the outsiding of Felicity will feel less. Once Diggle and Oliver aren't all side eyey, I think the group dynamic will be less cold so will allow for more warmth inside "the lair". Which will allow for little moments of bonding between all the team mates.

Edited October 16, 2015 by tarotx

[morakot]

Hasn't Felicity been working with TA most of the time she and Oliver were away? Are they just taking all that for granted?

[lemotomato]

Pretty much. If it weren't for the talk she had with Oliver about her helping the team behind his back, we wouldn't even know about it.

[tarotx]

Felicity was working with the team but she wasn't present so maybe the team just got used to not having to interact with her? It looks and feels odd though. 

[dtissagirl]

It's so awkward. Lordy. And it was especially glaring when I rewatched Flash 202 and Arrow 402 back to back.  I don't get awkwardness on Flash, and I loved loved LOVED how they integrated both Iris and Victor Garber into STAR Labs like they've always been there. Even Jay was quickly integrated.

 

I know Team Arrow is supposed to be ~fractured~, but the group scenes are looking TERRIBLE. I really hope it's just growing pains.

[kismet]

I don't think JD or LL noticed that TQ was having issues because their zest for getting the job done at any cost was very strong. TeamArrowless did not care about the violence or the consequences. They were pedal to the metal, balls to the wall without restraint taking the bad guys down at all costs. Clearly there was little to no strategy, there was no evidence or fact to analyze. Why or when they called FS for help, who really knows - clearly they have no memory of it.

 

No offense to smokers, but its like when a group of smokers hang out together - none of them notice the tobacco smell on each other. But bring in a non-smoker and then that will be the first thing they will smell. Team Arrowless was a little violent & crazy when hanging out together, but no one noticed because the other was as bad or worse. It took a fresh person to come in and recognize the problem.

[nksarmi]

I agree in that I expect D&L to be friends and I don't need a friendship between them to feel earned. I do, however, need a moment like Diggle revealing a secret he kept from two people he worked with for two years (people who actually know about his brother's murder) to a person he's worked with for six months to be earned. 

 

 

Personally, I hope they don't go there, because it makes Diggle seem petty as fuck. 

 

If Diggle's issue with Oliver is that he is hurt that Oliver didn't trust him (something that is essential between partners) than he isn't being petty.  And I can see that hurt extending to Felicity because it's kind of like she "sided" with Oliver and "ok'd" what he did by forgiving him so easily. 

 

That's why I would be ok if this was being done on purpose and soon Diggle has a moment with Felicity where he asks her point blank, "How could you forgive him?" and she tells him "Would you have forgiven Lyla if she had done the same thing?"  (Because Lyla gets it where Diggle doesn't which can only mirror back to her and Oliver's shared Argus experience of the ends justify the means)  And I think I would like it if Diggle tells Felicity about HIVE and his brother before they tell Oliver. 

 

I know everyone thinks the team is beating up on Oliver a little, but it would be a little fitting if he ended up in the "last to know" category a few times to understand what he put everyone through with all the lies.

[AyChihuahua]

A second season of fractured Team Arrow is gonna get booooooring.

[apinknightmare]

If Diggle's issue with Oliver is that he is hurt that Oliver didn't trust him (something that is essential between partners) than he isn't being petty.  And I can see that hurt extending to Felicity because it's kind of like she "sided" with Oliver and "ok'd" what he did by forgiving him so easily. 

 

That's why I would be ok if this was being done on purpose and soon Diggle has a moment with Felicity where he asks her point blank, "How could you forgive him?" and she tells him "Would you have forgiven Lyla if she had done the same thing?"  (Because Lyla gets it where Diggle doesn't which can only mirror back to her and Oliver's shared Argus experience of the ends justify the means)  And I think I would like it if Diggle tells Felicity about HIVE and his brother before they tell Oliver. 

 

I know everyone thinks the team is beating up on Oliver a little, but it would be a little fitting if he ended up in the "last to know" category a few times to understand what he put everyone through with all the lies.

 

I don't think a conversation between Felicity and Diggle about forgiveness is out of order, but Diggle being upset to the point of basically ignoring Felicity now (when he's been accepting her help all summer) because he's angry at her IS petty, especially when he's speaking to and interacting with Oliver, the guy he's actually expressed anger at. 

 

And I wouldn't mind Oliver being left in the dark generally speaking, if it weren't for the whole "we don't keep secrets" thing they've introduced (which still...LOL). It just comes off as an eye-for-an-eye mentality, and makes the secret keeper look (again) petty and childish. 

[AyChihuahua]

So DD is basically the Mayor, right?  The whole "your hand is on me," "watch your language," finding it to be bad manners to kidnap Danforth's daughter, using magic and having a creepy closet?  The Mayor was one of my all-time fave villains on probably my fave season of my all-time favorite show, so I'm cool with it, but it does seem a little bit past homage and maybe into copying territory. 

[nksarmi]

I don't think a conversation between Felicity and Diggle about forgiveness is out of order, but Diggle being upset to the point of basically ignoring Felicity now (when he's been accepting her help all summer) because he's angry at her IS petty, especially when he's speaking to and interacting with Oliver, the guy he's actually expressed anger at. 

 

And I wouldn't mind Oliver being left in the dark generally speaking, if it weren't for the whole "we don't keep secrets" thing they've introduced (which still...LOL). It just comes off as an eye-for-an-eye mentality, and makes the secret keeper look (again) petty and childish. 

 

Yes I totally wish they could write as not being "eye for an eye" because I really think it would be good for Oliver to learn what it does to the people who think they can trust you for you not to trust them.  I think it would kind of complete his journey into becoming a really awesome team leader.

[apinknightmare]

Yes I totally wish they could write as not being "eye for an eye" because I really think it would be good for Oliver to learn what it does to the people who think they can trust you for you not to trust them.  I think it would kind of complete his journey into becoming a really awesome team leader.

 

Luckily it seems like Oliver has learned his lesson, so I don't think he needs a taste of his own medicine at this point. I guess the closest we might get to it is when he finds out that Laurel lied to him about Thea's spa weekend, and took her and Sara's rotting corpse to NP instead. That won't seem like an eye-for-an-eye type thing, because Laurel's not keeping it from him to be petty, she's keeping it from him because what she's doing is a terrible idea.

Edited October 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Luckily it seems like Oliver has learned his lesson, so I don't think he needs a taste of his own medicine at this point. I guess the closest we might get to it is when he finds out that Laurel lied to him about Thea's spa weekend, and took her and Sara's rotting corpse to NP instead. That won't seem like an eye-for-an-eye type thing, because Laurel's not keeping it from him to be petty, she's keeping it from him because what she's doing is a terrible idea.

I have to say, as an S3 Oliver-loather, I REALLY appreciated him telling Thea about what Malcolm said about the Pit and sincerely apologizing.

[Princess Vanellope]

I'm sorry, but what exactly has Felicity done that she deserves "punishment"? She forgave the man she loves, how dare she. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that Diggle was a grown ass man, not a 16 year old girl holding a grudge. He should be able to separate his feelings for Felicity, his friend, and Oliver, his other friend. Fail show.

[fantique]

Yeah. The way Team Arrowless treated Felicity so far makes me want LESS scenes between her and them, because I'm really not good with secondhand embarrassment moments, and Felicity was certainly embarrassed by the high-five thing. Yuck.

 

Please use your loud voice on Diggle ASAP, Felicity. And if that fails, a swift kick in the nuts will do.

*cyber hug*

 

Oliver and Felicity are the only people in that team who actually feel like they like each other at all.The others are either jerks to them or ignore them so the two of the are the only positive thing in that lair for me right now.

Hope they solve the Diggle situation soon and he remembers Felicity has been his friend for years but right now he's on Laurel proping duty as well as Thea.Laurel can go on ignoring Felicity as far as I'm concerned,season 3 was more then enough of that friendship IMO.

This is really breaking my heart because I hate plot driven dumbass Diggle.

 

Plus could you imagine the uproar from newTA if OQ had the nerve to pack them lunch too, or buy them something. I can just see it now. The angry faces and accusations. Don't tell me to have a good day Ollie, you're not the boss of me! I can pack my own Damn Lunch! Stop trying to be my Dad, I already have two. They might have even given FS jealous stares, but that would mean they would have had to acknowledge her. I mean I'm joking. But then again, I'm not really. NewTA is an ungrateful lot when left to their own devices. Their group mentality is not an appealing one.

This is magnificent.

 

Luckily it seems like Oliver has learned his lesson, so I don't think he needs a taste of his own medicine at this point. I guess the closest we might get to it is when he finds out that Laurel lied to him about Thea's spa weekend, and took her and Sara's rotting corpse to NP instead. That won't seem like an eye-for-an-eye type thing, because Laurel's not keeping it from him to be petty, she's keeping it from him because what she's doing is a terrible idea.

Small favours...

 

Yeah, this episode definitely made the awkwardness regarding Felicity and TA obvious. I mean, I can get why Diggle ignores her but have Laurel and Thea said one word directly to Felicity in either episode? Why not? I know they are giving her stuff outside of TA to avoid her life being Oliver centric but isn't their theme "Oliver alone is not TA, they are equals now"? Therefore her being involved doesn't mean her being all about Oliver. Not that TA has been Oliver alone, at least definitely not since season 2. I can wait for it to get better within a few episodes while she has fun with Curtis but since TA not acknowledging Felicity's existence is symptomatic of Diggle's head-up-ass disease, it needs to stop.

Actually, thinking about it, since Diggle was the leaser during the summer, it feels like his douche-ness is having a trickle down effect.

 

Before I got into this discussion, I actually originally came here to spread some fern love.

*

Oh and another one about flashback wig.

[nksarmi]

I'm sorry, but what exactly has Felicity done that she deserves "punishment"? She forgave the man she loves, how dare she. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that Diggle was a grown ass man, not a 16 year old girl holding a grudge. He should be able to separate his feelings for Felicity, his friend, and Oliver, his other friend. Fail show.

Well the show hasn't failed at all as it has never stated that Diggle is mad at Felicity.  We are speculating he is because of lack of interaction, but it could just be bad blocking or something like the weirdness of having Felicity and Thea in a room together season after season without exchanging lines.  I mean you want to talk about missing things - Thea actually told Felicity she didn't know that she and Ollie were a thing.  Well that's because Thea didn't notice that Felicity existed for 2 years, but I digress...

 

If it is purposeful and not just annoying blocking (and we should find out in the next episode because it will look even odder if Diggle doesn't interact with Felicity when its just the three of them) - we were just speculating why that might be.  I can see in character reasons for it - but I suspect it was just odd group writing to be honest.

Edited October 16, 2015 by nksarmi

[fantique]

Possible...They are extremely bad (or unfortunately good) for creating impressions that are unintendedly negative.

[Princess Vanellope]

Well the show hasn't failed at all as it has never stated that Diggle is mad at Felicity. We are speculating he is because of lack of interaction, but it could just be bad blocking or something like the weirdness of having Felicity and Thea in a room together season after season without exchanging lines. I mean you want to talk about missing things - Thea actually told Felicity she didn't know that she and Ollie were a thing. Well that's because Thea didn't notice that Felicity existed for 2 years, but I digress...

If it is purposeful and not just annoying blocking (and we should find out in the next episode because it will look even odder if Diggle doesn't interact with Felicity when its just the three of them) - we were just speculating why that might be. I can see in character reasons for it - but I suspect it was just odd group writing to be honest.

If I want to think that this is a failure on the part of the show, I'm entitled to that opinion. You needn't agree. Character reasons or not, it was blatant enough to have several media outlets comment on it and even they found any character motivations for Diggle to be angry at her (which is just spec) iffy at best.