Episode Discussion: TFGH

[kristabell]

I watched the last few seconds of the show just to see if RC would actually go there, and sure enough he did. I should have realized there's no end to his pettiness. As a fan of OLTL and of Todd&Blair specifically, I can't even explain how irrationally angry this makes me.

For fuck's sake, Ron, we already knew you were full-on ripping off OLTL's "Hell No" wedding, did it really need to be in the dialogue?

 

 

[ulkis]

Ulkis - Yeah, but Dante was acting like it took some real painful soul-searching to acknowledge Anna's theory - when he himself has been shot by a remorseless Sonny while unarmed. Back before some terrible writing/re-creating of the Dante character, he knew Sonny was a POS regardless of their shared DNA.

 

I don't think it came off that way. I think he was upset because like he said, he's afraid of how it's gonna affect Michael. And of course, Dante is a decent person and wants to think that the person who fathered him has SOME sort of silver lining. But that may be subtext that I'm only making up. It was mostly about Michael and how it's gonna affect their entire family.

I knew it would happen but man it happened even faster then I thought it might, heh. He really just flipped a switch, from "You fucking bastard murderer!" to "Oh Daddy she killed your lover and I'm so sorry!".

 

If this isn't proof this whole goddamn town is bipolar I don't know what else might do it. Honestly they're all so emotionally unstable and stupid and shitty and stupid and manic and stupid and pathetic and stupid.

 

It's ridiculous how someone always has to be in Sonny's corner.

 

I can't say I'm disappointed/didn't see this coming. Morgan's hate for Sonny always came from a place of insecurity. Even Sonny sleeping with Ava - Morgan viewed that as one more piece of evidence that Sonny didn't love him the way he loved Michael. Now that he has what he thinks is some sort of evidence that Sonny didn't place him aside so easily after all, he's gonna jump on it.

[Dandesun]

The OLTL 'Hell No' wedding was loads better. I mean, it kind of sucked for this T&B fan but 

 

a: Blair hadn't cheated on Todd

b: She wasn't thinking of someone else immediately before saying 'I do' to him

c: The way he talked about her shooting Max was actually kind of strangely sweet 'I have never been more proud of you!'

 

But most importantly, it was the catalyst for Todd unloading every. single. secret. that had been festering in Llanview for at least a year. It wasn't just Blair shooting Max that he revealed but Rae being Skye's mother, Max not being a Buchanan, Ben being the actual Buchanan... and he enraged Asa into a heart attack which is always fun. What's more, he got tossed in jail for his own culpability in covering shit up. (Plus, the Llanview police loved to throw Todd in jail.)

 

This seems like typical Ron... rehash something that had been done much better previously. Do the budget cuts make them go 'We don't have the funds to write new scripts! Get old ones from a different show!'

 

Although it sounds like Joss is the best part of this 'wedding.'

[Chairperson Meow]

The original Hell No wedding was awesome because it wasn't interrupted by bullshit, Ron. And we saw the reason why Todd was saying hell no the same week he said hell no. Oh and the commissioner was there. Though lol at the previews. Save your energy, Micheal. You're about to haz a Super Mad!

So Dante clearly must be AJ's son too or Ned's because I'm convinced that Quartermaines not named Jason are the only one that can produce worthwhile sons. AJ could have wandered to Bensonhurst as a teen. He did drink a lot. I'm sad that I didn't get to enjoy DZ fully because I was promised a sex tape. Don't lie to me, Ron.

And Morgan. Ugh. Did Jax teach you nothing? I love how Sonny stopped the recording before Morgan heard AJ beg Sonny for his life and TELL SONNY HE DID NOT KILL CONNIE! So shut the cluck up, Micheal "Sonny" Corinthos because you knew, dumbass. The victim tried to tell you, but you're a triggerhappy criminal so have several seats before listing anyone's rap sheet. Mr. I'm so claustrophobic.

And Nina. You brought two needles? Into that repetition shit, huh?

[ulkis]

I forgot to say, Liason v ev0l Dr O is like watching some sort of plot from a tween show on Disney.

[Chairperson Meow]

Dude, why are they wasting Billy Miller?

What the everliving fuck?

[Turtle]

No, Morgan.  NO!!!!!  You are not allowed to see Sonny's side in this.  Don't undo all the good you've done.  Yes, Ava has done some terrible things, but so has Sonny!  I fear that Sonny's going to go to the brownstone and be the one who saves Ava and the baby.  And I just can't.  God, no. Just no.  Is it too ridiculous of me to hope that Morgan is just playing Sonny?  Yeah, probably.  This is just such bullshit.  

 

Jocelyn continues to throw the best shade on this show. 

 

Give. Me. The. Reveal. Already.

[CPP83]

I can't say I'm disappointed/didn't see this coming. Morgan's hate for Sonny always came from a place of insecurity. Even Sonny sleeping with Ava - Morgan viewed that as one more piece of evidence that Sonny didn't love him the way he loved Michael. Now that he has what he thinks is some sort of evidence that Sonny didn't place him aside so easily after all, he's gonna jump on it.

 

 

 

 

I also noticed the way Morgan kept repeating to Sonny that he would "be there" for him, as if he wanted to keep impressing on him that he would be the loyal son, that he would not let him down, that he understood why he killed AJ and why he's wanting Ava dead now and everything is just so neatly taken care of.

 

Of course Sonny had a really good reason to shoot AJ, he didn't kill him out of malice, and of course he has a really good reason to want Ava six feet under, as if this proves Morgan's internal feelings that Sonny is still a "good guy". He doesn't just break his codes of honour or threaten the womens needlessly, his hand has been "forced" the whole time.

 

It really is...atrocious, that's the best word I can come up with. The Sonny show just can't lose its conquering hero.

[TeeVee329]

Although it sounds like Joss is the best part of this 'wedding.'

 

I remain absolutely stunned and flabbergasted that Joss never switched to Team!Franco.  From day one, I'd been predicting that would happen, to prop up Franco, all "Ooooh, isn't Roger Howarth just sooooo cute with kids!!1!!!".  But they never flipped the switch so one point for that.

[Lillybee]

I am hoping that Morgan takes Sonny to the brownstone and either Sonny kills Nina or Nina kills Sonny. I would be happy with either outcome.

[tvgoddess]

 

I can't say I'm disappointed/didn't see this coming. Morgan's hate for Sonny always came from a place of insecurity. Even Sonny sleeping with Ava - Morgan viewed that as one more piece of evidence that Sonny didn't love him the way he loved Michael. Now that he has what he thinks is some sort of evidence that Sonny didn't place him aside so easily after all, he's gonna jump on it.

 

I  saw it coming too, and I'm still disappointed. It's one thing to say this is how something will play out and suspect it, it's another to see your worst fears confirmed on your screen. Morgan's definitely insecure. Go choke on Sonny's dick then, Morgan.

 

What was up with Carly's hair? It looked like she had some kind of black bandana in it. Unless those were her roots, which yikes.

[Dandesun]

 

I remain absolutely stunned and flabbergasted that Joss never switched to Team!Franco.  From day one, I'd been predicting that would happen, to prop up Franco, all "Ooooh, isn't Roger Howarth just sooooo cute with kids!!1!!!".  But they never flipped the switch so one point for that.

 

I thought the exact same thing. I'm guessing they already knew that the shelf-life on Franco/Carly had expired when he started interacting with her and were just biding their time to blow it up for sweeps.

 

It's been way too long that various show-runners have depended on 'Roger Howarth makes a woobie face!' 'Roger Howarth makes funny!' 'Roger Howarth is cute with kids!' rather than writing a solid story.

[ulkis]

I remain absolutely stunned and flabbergasted that Joss never switched to Team!Franco.  From day one, I'd been predicting that would happen, to prop up Franco, all "Ooooh, isn't Roger Howarth just sooooo cute with kids!!1!!!".  But they never flipped the switch so one point for that.

 

I really think Ron is done trying to redeem Franco . . . now we just have to wait out the "ooh look at Franco and Nina being a wacky evil couple together" phase. 

[Francie]

Everything I hear about this "hallowedding" (quit trying to make fetch, errrr hallowedding, happen, Ron), just reinforces, yet again, that this show has nothing to do with trying to engage or entertain women. Look who gets the comeuppance -- serial killing and sexual assaulting Franco.  And I think we're supposed to actually be cheering for him.

 

I would hope with the recent shifts in programming control, someone with a brain would take notice of what's going on with this show and how it's being operated with the maturity of stereotypical frat house. But, given that ABCD is essentially folding and GH will just be under the ABC entertainment department, it's likely that it'll just sit out there like a small dingy tied to a large barge™ until it's finally cut loose.

[CPP83]

If they only would have played more with Morgan being unbalanced due to the circumstances surrounding his birth. He really needs to go all "Dandy" from AHS and launch a bloody killing spree starting with daddy dearest. Then I might like him.

 

And to think that Lorenzo could have raised this kid to pronounce Spanish improperly...what a waste.

 

Edited because "produce" is not the same as "pronounce" but I blame all the drinking I've had to do today thanks to this stupid show...

Edited October 31, 2014 by CPP83

[ulkis]

Everything I hear about this "hallowedding" (quit trying to make fetch, errrr hallowedding, happen, Ron), just reinforces, yet again, that this show has nothing to do with trying to engage or entertain women. Look who gets the comeuppance -- serial killing and sexual assaulting Franco.  And I think we're supposed to actually be cheering for him.

 

I would hope with the recent shifts in programming control, someone with a brain would take notice of what's going on with this show and how it's being operated with the maturity of stereotypical frat house. But, given that ABCD is essentially folding and GH will just be under the ABC entertainment department, it's likely that it'll just sit out there like a small dingy tied to a large barge™ until it's finally cut loose.

 

I honestly don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Franco. Maybe we're supposed to be loving-to-hate him but I don't think we're supposed to be whole-heartedly rooting for him. The only non-villainous person who doesn't like him is Kiki. Carly and Sonny are being played like star-crossed lovers. He's using and manipulating Michael, town saint and his rape victim. If Ron thinks this is root-worthy he's worse than Guza ever was.

[TeeVee329]

Look who gets the comeuppance -- serial killing and sexual assaulting Franco.

 

And across town, the other half of the Franina "supercouple" is torturing a pregnant woman.

Edited October 31, 2014 by TeeVee329

[CPP83]

If Ron thinks this is root-worthy he's worse than Guza ever was

 

 

 

Personally I thought that when he first started trying to "redeem" Franco with the whole brain tumour made him do it bullshit.

 

If there is one thing I will give to Guza is that he could come up with some pretty evil, horrible characters but he would keep them that way, and kill them off and keep them dead when they had overstayed their welcome.

 

I could never see him trying to change Franco into a "good guy". He crafted Franco much in the same manner he created Manny, and that guy was even bigger freak of nature than Franco, imho, and that is how he was kept.

 

Guza seemed to understand that some characters do have an expiration date and one should abide by them, but Ron seems to have no grasp on that, he doesn't get it

 

And also hasn't he said lately he wants people to feel for Franco or sympathize with him or something?

 

I know it defies all logic but I truly do think he thinks Franco is a hero type in this story. He's been "betrayed" in the worse way possible after all.

 

Forget being raped in prison, thinking you've been raped on your honeymoon and then end up impregnated by said rapist, or have died in the cruelest, inhuman ways possible for a man's "art work", because getting cheated on? There is just no comparison.

Edited October 31, 2014 by CPP83

[Francie]

I honestly don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Franco. Maybe we're supposed to be loving-to-hate him but I don't think we're supposed to be whole-heartedly rooting for him. The only non-villainous person who doesn't like him is Kiki. Carly and Sonny are being played like star-crossed lovers. He's using and manipulating Michael, town saint and his rape victim. If Ron thinks this is root-worthy he's worse than Guza ever was.

I get what you're saying. But how was that "Hell no, I'm not marrying that whore/slut/tramp?" supposed to otherwise be satisfying?  If we don't cheer him saying it, then it's pointless. Are these PTB just that oblivious to story-telling? 

 

On second thought, don't answer that.

[MSquared]

 

rehash something that had been done much better previously.

 

And without an once of the heart or soul that the original story had.  

 

I'm actually not totally surprised that Joss never went to Team!Franco.  The kid played her hate well and it is nice to see it not sacrificed at the altar of Franco and Cranco. 

[Francie]

And across town, the other half of the Franina "supercouple" is torturing a pregnant woman.

Yes, a male script writer, a male breakdown writer, and a male head writer all thought that was wildly entertaining for a Friday afternoon.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a male can't write good daytime dramas that appeal to either women and men or women. Clearly they have, and we could cite a very long list. But this show is being held hostage by a handful of individuals who, day in and day out, seem to feel that women are icky and uninteresting, unless they are a psychotic mess or a stereotypical vamp.  The Nina/Ava scenes sound uncomfortable to watch, and not in a "hey, we're grabbing you!" kind of way.  Again, the word oblivious keeps coming to mind.

[Dandesun]

Well, I am absolutely certain that there are people who are cheering Franco on right now. They either utterly despise Carly and wanted her beaten down completely or they may be members of the 'This Character I Love Can Do No Wrong Ever' contingent of a fanbase that, basically, every character/actor has. But I honestly don't believe that's the majority of the audience.

 

I think Ron likes to think it is. I imagine that it's very easy to please the fans who are like that... because it honestly doesn't matter what happens, if they love a character or an actor then nothing the writers do will ever change that.

 

Based on recaps, I think I know what they were trying to do with today's show... lots of these threads about Sonny, AJ and Ava being tied together from different corners. Anna and Dante are finally realizing that what they thought isn't correct, Morgan getting part of the truth, Ava being targetted by Nina, Jason existing, Franco ready to drop the bomb... I mean, I totally get what they're going for. It's just... this should have been done months ago. (Nina's part is totally unnecessary... as is Jakeson, really... he's just not connected to any of this yet.) But the execution is fucking awful which is a real shame because Ron used to be excellent at this sort of KAPOW!! episode.

 

There's no real sense of urgency here... it's more of a 'Finally, this shit is finally out in the open!' sort of feeling.

[dubbel zout]

LOL that Madeline knew exactly how to change Danny's test results so that even Silas would have to say his cancer returned.

 

oh Morgan, you dumb idiot. Still, I did feel bad for the guy when he realized he was having sex with a murderer for months.

 

I didn't. He's a complete dolt. He knew Ava was terrible before they hooked up. Corinthos men have terrible taste in women. Dante is maybe the exception that proves the rule.

 

The Liz/Jakson stuff was painful, and the Nina/Ava stuff was gross. 

 

Everything Sonny said about Ava killing Connie was true about himself. As usual, it's amazing he isn't struck by lightning every 15 minutes. "What killed me was all the lying!" FFS, Sonny.

 

Julian had been watch out for Danny's side-eye.

 

I liked Carly's dress, even if it was wildly inappropriate for a seventh (?) marriage. They didn't even mention that. I couldn't help laughing at everyone's facial expressions during the ceremony. No one wants to be there, not even the bride and groom.

 

 

 

Well, I am absolutely certain that there are people who are cheering Franco on right now.

 

How and why am I supposed to feel sorry for Carly? She's marrying a SERIAL KILLER. Whom she knows has terrorized people she loves. Who arranged for her son to be RAPED. I will not feel bad that I can't muster up some sympathy for her here.

Edited October 31, 2014 by dubbel zout

[Tiger]

STFU FRANCO

STFU NINA

STFU NINA

STFU NINA

STFU MORGAN

STFU FELIX

STFU NINA

Definitely? Definitely. Definitely!

[Chairperson Meow]

No! Nina, as much as I need you vs Sonny, I really need Michael to handle him. I would rather you just take the ill concieved spawn and run away. Like, we don't need another Corinthos. But I need the AJ reveal, Sonny arrested, and Micheal going Quartermaine. So just leap over to whatever. I don't care.

That baby was either concieved on AJ's grave or the day of his funeral so whatever. Just go away for a bit.

And we forget now that Ava was going to murder AJ and framed him because omg she's in teh danger and suddenly people give a fuck about Connie. Bullshit.

[CPP83]

Julian had been watch out for Danny's side-eye.

 

 

 

I still can't get over the kid's reaction to Michael, I mean his little face was beaming at him, and he kept giggling and grinning while Michael talked to him.

 

He looked pretty darn cute too during it, the first time I have thought that but then as soon as Michael turned away that kid went right back to his old face, including the dead eyes and no smile and...I just don't know, heh, it was a very appropriate scene sequence for All Hallows Eve I'd say. That kid is like Damien.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I honestly don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Franco. 

 

Ron is on record saying we are to.

 

Nina and Ava were unwatchable. As bad as the ripped off wedding was, Nina assaulting a helpless woman and her unborn baby was the worst thing about this show. I don't understand what is entertaining about any of it.

[tvgoddess]

STFU FRANCO

STFU NINA

STFU NINA

STFU NINA

STFU MORGAN

STFU FELIX

STFU NINA

Definitely? Definitely. Definitely!

 

How could you forget STFU SONNY?

[ulkis]

I didn't. He's a complete dolt. He knew Ava was terrible before they hooked up. Corinthos men have terrible taste in women. Dante is maybe the exception that proves the rule.

 

Heh. Well, in real life Lulu is questionable, but on this show? She's probably the best choice besides Robin (in his age range, at least).

 

How and why am I supposed to feel sorry for Carly? She's marrying a SERIAL KILLER. Whom she knows has terrorized people she loves. Who arranged for her son to be RAPED. I will not feel bad that I can't muster up some sympathy for her here.

 

 

 

True, but at the same time, it's like, shut up Franco. He stalked her and her companions for years, he knows damn well what she's like.

 

If Morgan was older and less naive I might not feel so bad for him, but he was 19 years old and in a downward spiral, so yeah, I still feel bad for him at the revelation of Ava's murders.

[Francie]

Well, I am absolutely certain that there are people who are cheering Franco on right now.

 

How and why am I supposed to feel sorry for Carly? She's marrying a SERIAL KILLER. Whom she knows has terrorized people she loves. Who arranged for her son to be RAPED. I will not feel bad that I can't muster up some sympathy for her here.

 

One doesn't necessarily mean the other, though. I find both characters unrootable. Just because I dislike Soccer Mom Loves-too-hard Carly doesn't mean that I'll ever cheer Franco for (kinda) tearing her down a peg. In fact, it takes away any joy from it whatsoever that it's he who gets to do it.

[Lillybee]

Can someone explain it to me as if I were Sonny, where did NuJason get those art supplies for Liz? All I can come up with is that he stole them from the art therapy room.

[SoapDoc]

 

Well, I am absolutely certain that there are people who are cheering Franco on right now. They either utterly despise Carly and wanted her beaten down completely or they may be members of the 'This Character I Love Can Do No Wrong Ever' contingent of a fanbase that, basically, every character/actor has. But I honestly don't believe that's the majority of the audience.

 

I suspect a good bit of the audience is like me - backed into a corner. I despise Franco but Ron has presented him as the only way for AJ to get any justice. Therefore, I must cheer for the crazy SERIAL KILLER. Once the reveal is over, Franco can vanish off the canvas in a puff of smoke for all I can. I, like Grrpants09, need the reveal and I will take it from where ever it comes.

 

I do agree that the pacing has been atrocious. There was a way to get here that was more organic, But who would want to see that? That's just good storytelling and not an "event".

 

 

He looked pretty darn cute too during it, the first time I have thought that but then as soon as Michael turned away that kid went right back to his old face, including the dead eyes and no smile and...I just don't know, heh, it was a very appropriate scene sequence for All Hallows Eve I'd say. That kid is like Damien.

That's Danny -- stealing hearts and crushing souls since 2012.

[magnolia11]

Can someone explain it to me as if I were Sonny, where did NuJason get those art supplies for Liz? All I can come up with is that he stole them from the art therapy room.

 

Never fear!  Ron answered this very question on Twitter today!  You are indeed correct!

[Fellaway]

I would like to know how hearing that Ava killed Connie equates, in Morgan's mind, to negating Sonny killing A.J. and his needing to utter the words "I'm sorry, Dad."

 

Nevermind.  I really don't want to know.  That?  Was sickening.

[CPP83]

Can someone explain it to me as if I were Sonny, where did NuJason get those art supplies for Liz? All I can come up with is that he stole them from the art therapy room.

 

 

 

 But he's not a criminal any longer!

 

Ffs those two are intolerable. And Liz really didn't draw him well, at all.

 

 

Can someone explain it to me as if I were Sonny, where did NuJason get those art supplies for Liz? All I can come up with is that he stole them from the art therapy room.

 

 

 

In that kid's very warped mind it gave Sonny a good reason to do what he did. Ava "forced" Sonny's hand because the whole time she let him and everyone else think AJ killed Connie, which is the "only" reason Sonny wanted him dead. She was an evil woman who confused and tricked him.

 

So of course Morgan is "sorry" for doubting and thinking so badly of Sonny, for thinking that he wouldn't have such good and noble and honourable and understandable reasons for committing murder, as he always does.

Edited October 31, 2014 by CPP83

[Tiger]

Ron is on record saying we are to.

Nina and Ava were unwatchable. As bad as the ripped off wedding was, Nina assaulting a helpless woman and her unborn baby was the worst thing about this show. I don't understand what is entertaining about any of it.

As if the actual plot wasn't awful enough, hearing Nina say "aeh-VAAAHHHHH" over and over and over and over again, ad infinitum, drove me friggin nuts.

Well, off to pretend I'm Captain America, and get drunk!

Edited October 31, 2014 by Tiger

[Dandesun]

 

One doesn't necessarily mean the other, though. I find both characters unrootable. Just because I dislike Soccer Mom Loves-too-hard Carly doesn't mean that I'll ever cheer Franco for (kinda) tearing her down a peg. In fact, it takes away any joy from it whatsoever that it's he who gets to do it.

 

Watching two characters I loathe tear strips out of each other's hides isn't very entertaining for very long. There's a moment of gratification... schadenfreude, if you will, but ultimately I would want more from the show than that.

[Yolapukka]

 

I knew it would happen but man it happened even faster then I thought it might, heh. He really just flipped a switch, from "You fucking bastard murderer!" to "Oh Daddy she killed your lover and I'm so sorry!".

 

To me it coming so, so fast, infuriating as it was, is strangely satisfying because it makes Morgan's loyalty  to Sonny such weak sauce.  It's like he changes his mind depending on who he's talking to and has few hard and fast opinions oif his own. It's also why I hope , if the baby isn't a tock, I would prefer it be his over Sonny's.  Actually there are a lot of reasons I'd prefer that, Sonny and his unwrapped weiner need to stoop spawning little mychilds.. Why oh why if we have to endure so many stories of sad Sonny do we not get one in which he stutterbarks and whinges about a problem with infertility Bigtime UCG I tell ya. It would be good for Morgan if he had one person in his corner, someone he is completely  loyal to himself. With even grade-schoolers being  venal, backstabbing, little creeps, I think an infant is the only safe bet. Kiki is an absolute horror, Ava is rotten, Sonny is worthless and disgusting, Carly is a terrible person who lives too far up her own ass and Morgan's fellow sibs have too many problems of their own given that they are related to either Carly or Sonny.

Edited October 31, 2014 by yuggapukka

[Chairperson Meow]

That's why I'm like fuck. Just give it to Nina. We can stop hearing about the dead baby, the affair, and Sonny blather on about how murder will protect the family. No, asshole. You had one testicle in Olivia's bed before Connie died. So stfu. Unless Ava is making Morgan strip and has him addicted to pills or murders Dante in 18 years and bangs Rocco on his grave- she's not threatening your family.

And if Monica doesn't get a crack at Sonny or especially Carly, I will be pissed. Like Kanye when he was drunk at the VMAs pissed.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Grrpants09

[jsbt]

I honestly don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Franco. Maybe we're supposed to be loving-to-hate him but I don't think we're supposed to be whole-heartedly rooting for him. The only non-villainous person who doesn't like him is Kiki. Carly and Sonny are being played like star-crossed lovers. He's using and manipulating Michael, town saint and his rape victim. If Ron thinks this is root-worthy he's worse than Guza ever was.

 

I think Ron wants it both ways, honestly.

 

He's an interesting writer, because he will, often, get or acknowledge that every character has a viewpoint and a POV which is sometimes valid - he knows what Sonny and Carly did to A.J. and the Quartermaines, and he acknowledged it when he brought Sean Kanan back on. He understands that, which is something Bob Guza just did not and would not. But ultimately, if that alternative viewpoint does not serve his purposes, he will still pivot a story or a character against the truth of a storyline in order to service his plot concerns. Equality of character POV only matters to Ron for as long as it serves his needs.

 

He gets a lot of credit for bringing action and adventure and history back to the show and pulling it away from the mob, and he has done that but he still also services the mob. Whether or not part of that is because of influence from the network or audience feedback needs, he still does it. When he was at OLTL he would give the underdog characters a POV - for a little bit - and then pull it back, and basically say in the writing, 'well, sure, they had a point, but now look what awful thing they've done - now they're irrational, so no one is better than anyone else, that's soaps!' If someone comes down on Todd or Victor the re-rapist they're actually a hypocrite; if someone takes on another favored character, they may have a point, but then they ultimately have a fatal flaw. A.J. is right about his son but hey, A.J. is still a drunken (fat) loser.

 

There's nothing wrong with nobody truly being the good guy or the bad guy; that kind of basic humanity is essential to soap writing, IMO, and RC used to do that well. But after a certain point in his writing it was not about that - it just became all about who he needed to try to push to the audience in that moment. And he pulls the punch on everything that matters.

 

I think he mistakes handicapping some characters for being equal to all characters, if that makes any sense. And I think what he wants right now is very in the moment - he is capitalizing on viewer resentment and fatigue towards Sonny and Carly to try and push Franco and Nina, the zany troublemakers who are sure to finally make Roger Howarth a success on this show. But he also has enough plausible deniability in the writing to turn back at a certain point, remind people that Franco is a ne'er-do-well, and bail Sonny and Carly out.

[Rancide]

Am I misremembering, or wasn't the last big sweeps Carly in cave?  Now this sweeps is Canco wedding?  With a side of Ava/Nina/Sonny?  Ferfuckssake.

 

Also, did I see KIKI was one of Carly's bridesmaids as I ffed through those scenes at warp speed?  Please tell those shots of what appeared to be her standing up were for some other reason.

 

ETA:

 

I honestly don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Franco.

 

I'm TOTALLY rooting for Franco.  At this point, at least 50% of the people on this show deserve to die a painful violent death at the hands of a psychotic serial killer.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Rancide

[Kitty Redstone]

This show sucks.

 

Ava killing Connie and shooting Olivia does not make Sonny's murdering of AJ defensible!!!  Morgan is fucking stupid, and his apologizing to his disgusting father and telling him where Ava was hiding out makes him dead to me forever. 

 

Sonny committing innumerable crimes and justifying it for the sake of this baby is just ... too awful for words.  

 

And whatever the fuck Michelle Stafford was doing today?  It was just horrible. 

 

I can't believe how upset I let myself get over this idiocy.

[TeeVee329]

I'm...well, not curious exactly...but I wonder if Franco is going to turn on Kiki on Monday too, if he's going to blow up her spot.  I think that'll be a key marker as to where Ron is taking Franco.

[sometimesfan]

I just can't muster up enough anger to be upset over Franco when compared to Morgan apologizing to Sonny over Ava and Connie. Yes, yes, Connie was Sonny's world and Ava killed her, but in the same episode Carly is having a flashback to Sonny talking about their deep love for one another. Oh, and by the way, Olivia...  Morgan folded like a cheap suit. He's dead to me now.

This show sucks.

 

Ava killing Connie and shooting Olivia does not make Sonny's murdering of AJ defensible!!!  Morgan is fucking stupid, and his apologizing to his disgusting father and telling him where Ava was hiding out makes him dead to me forever. 

 

Sonny committing innumerable crimes and justifying it for the sake of this baby is just ... too awful for words.  

 

And whatever the fuck Michelle Stafford was doing today?  It was just horrible. 

 

I can't believe how upset I let myself get over this idiocy.

 

Same here. I need a drink. UGH!

[WendyCR72]

I'm TOTALLY rooting for Franco.  At this point, at least 50% of the people on this show deserve to die a painful violent death at the hands of a psychotic serial killer.

 

They undoubtedly do, but so does Franco. I say Emma or one of the other kids does it under some bad PTSD, as they are kids and, for the most part, more root worthy than any of the adults on this shitshow.  Franco is a piece of shit, so I won't root for his ass to do shit but die with the rest of the miscreants.

 

So the kids have the edge. Well, except Spencer. He is a poster child for a child-free life.

 

Maybe Emma can finally snap since her Daddy is too busy with sexing up anyone not his imprisoned wife, and Emma misses her Mommy...and bam.

 

Kill 'em ALL, Emma. Kill. Them. All.

[TeeVee329]

They undoubtedly do, but so does Franco. I say Emma or one of the other kids does it under some bad PTSD, as they are kids and, for the most part, more root worthy than any of the adults on this shitshow.

 

I say let Joss handle it.  She should stab him to death with corn on the cob holders.

[dubbel zout]

I find both [Carly and Franco] unrootable.

 

Oh, definitely. They're detestable. But I'm not going to feel sorry for Carly when she knowingly put herself in the position of marrying a SERIAL KILLER. If Franco were blackmailing her or something, there'd be a reason to sympathize. As it stands? No. 

 

I can't believe how upset I let myself get over this idiocy.

 

There's no point trying to make sense of it because it doesn't make sense. I don't know why I try.

Edited October 31, 2014 by dubbel zout

[WendyCR72]

I say let Joss handle it.  She should stab him to death with corn on the cob holders.

 

Well, those "Children of the Corn" did dispense with riffraff most efficiently... This has possibilities.

[TeeVee329]

Oh, and so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle, I literally went UGH out loud when Felix ran in with Lucy.  Why is he there?  Because he and Carly were momentary BFF's like six hundred years ago?  Because Franco gave him advice about a threesome once?  GET OUT!

Edited October 31, 2014 by TeeVee329

[CPP83]

Oh, and so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle, I literally went UGH out loud when Felix ran in with Lucy.  Why is he there?  Because he and Carly were momentary BFF's like six hundred years ago?  Because Franco gave him advice about a threesome once?  GET OUT!

 

 

 

Apparently it was his job to butcher and mangle Shakespeare. That reading was unforgivable.

 

I'm just glad they didn't try to force any scenes between he and Brad and Lucas.

Edited October 31, 2014 by CPP83