NFL Thread

[ElDosEquis]

 The NFLPA CBA is horseshit.

There are set fines for being fat and late and the magic words, "not to exceed". They also take fines out in weekly deductions (hilarious)

Then there are the very special words  "detrimental to the team".  There is a basic, 'hey sit down for a while', but NO mention of DV or any off field problem, so both sides just let that slide - instead of putting on paper, they left it up to RG to rule as he sees fit?

[merylinkid]

The 6 games can be reduced if there are mitigating factors (whatever THOSE are).    Goodell decided that non-cooperation by the victim and the police department apparently was worthy of a 5 game mitigation.   Instead of concluding like a reasonable person, hmmm, DV is 6 games, there is no evidence to mitigate, so 6 games it is.   Basically, Goodell was saying that Brown could cover up by NOT admitting to him what he told the cops and that it is all on the victim to provide the necessary evidence to get to the 6 games.    How fucked up that is, I cannot even begin to tell you.   

BTW, Brady got 4 games for allegedly covering up.   Brown got his suspension reduced for the same thing.    WOW.   

Brown is not traveling to London with the Giants.   They have signed Robbie Gould.    Expect Brown to no longer be protected because of the bad PR (caused by themselves) and be released next Monday.

[ElDosEquis]

I wasn't following the case - the PD refused to cooperate?

And if the victim refuses to co-operate, that means any medical/ER records aren't available.

In a way, Goodell has to play it by ear? There are no hard and fast rules in the CBA that he can follow and it seems the twattery levels have escalated in the last decade.

The union and NFL would never include specific infractions - it's not good for the game and until there are specific rules in place, it's what ever sounds good at the moment.

Then you have this chuckleheaded asshole?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/steelers-want-nfl-to-investigate-ndamukong-suh-kicking-ben-roethlisberger-202701532.html

NINE fines - he's hit that upper level on the 'fine scale' and a suspension, reduced.

So, it's what? 25k deducted over time from his paycheck?

Fuck him, suspend his ASS and fine him.............but it will never happen. THAT is what a union can do for ya.

[nowandlater]

14 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I wasn't following the case - the PD refused to cooperate?

http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-always-had-access-to-the-josh-brown-documents-1788037941

[stealinghome]

6 minutes ago, nowandlater said:

http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-always-had-access-to-the-josh-brown-documents-1788037941

Oh...wow. Talk about damning for the NFL.

[nowandlater]

7 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Oh...wow. Talk about damning for the NFL.

http://deadspin.com/king-county-sheriff-owns-nfl-calls-nfl-investigator-a-1788054321

[FuriousStyles]

The NFL put new guidelines in place for this very situation. They're not always going to get a "smoking gun" (ie videotape) or as I'm sure the many people they've spoken to regarding DV have told them......cooperation from the victim. They already know this. If they're going to suspend Josh Brown at all (meaning the league believe he did *something*) why not follow your own guidelines that you set and give him the 6 games?  Whether the 6 games gets reduced or not is irrelevant, because Goddell has no control (maybe?) over that.   From a PR perspective Goddell could say he did what he could to punish Brown and the process took its course.  

And they wouldn't have to be scrambling righthe now to make it right.

Josh Brown won't be traveling with the team to London.  Thats a start.  But they really need to get rid of him. I suppose Mcadoo wants to leave that mess alone until they get back.

[DrSpaceman73]

They just need to set up a joint player-front office panel to settle all discipline issues. 

I have no idea why Goodell wants or continues to have this power, except he is just a power hungry person.  Its the only explanation.  No one is ever happy with his decisions and he is criticized after every single one of them. 

As for the ratings decline, that has been mentioned in the press recently, I think its NFL overload more than anything.  I don't think anyone likes the Thursday night games.  At least not the players and not the fans.  Only ones who like them are the owners and the front office.  They are poor quality and they place players at risk for injury.  I know they have been doing them for several years now, but I think people are finally realizing the Thursday games are rarely that good.   I love the NFL, but I am not watching Thursday games unless the Colts or Panthers are playing.  IF they are to continue the Thursday games, they need to add a bye week for each team and give each team a bye week before the Thursday games. 

And also consider, even though I never thought the NFL was about individual players like say the NBA tends to be, first 4 weeks was the first time in 18 years or so with no Peyton Manning and no Tom Brady. 

[merylinkid]

Wow that Deadspin article was devastating.   How hard it is it to send a request on NFL letterhead?   Again, the investigator needs to be fired.    Because as noted in the other Deadspin article some of this information was available in the divorce file that was public.   It they had spent a week on this investigation and not found this stuff ... maybe.   But they announced that after a 10 month investigation, there was just not enough to give him 10 games.   What the fuck were they investigating for 10 months, where to find King County on the map?

As I said over on twitter, I would love to see a comparison of the hours spent investigating Deflategate and the hours spent investigating this.   I mean the hours actually spent, just not the general time from beginning the investigation to the announcement of punishment.

[Fukui San]

I'd be highly interested in hearing from that blue ribbon panel of women that the NFL assembled after the Ray Rice fiasco, if they were even consulted on this case or whether it was the merest fig leaf.

[mojoween]

While I wish it were any other team embroiled in this, here is what I really want to happen:

PLAYERS, STOP FUCKING HITTING YOUR PARTNERS.  

[Fukui San]

In all seriousness, if I were NFL Commissioner I would create some way to remove players who are involved in domestic violence disputes from rosters without costing them their salaries as many women don't come forward as to do so would cost their husbands and boyfriends their jobs.  So Josh Brown instead of being suspended would be inactive in order to go to a treatment program.  The Giants would still pay him but would get some salary cap relief so that they can replace him on the roster.  If Josh Brown refuses to get treated then he would be suspended.  I imagine Greg Hardy would refuse to go, as he was defiant throughout.  Ray Rice probably would've attended such a thing if it were offered.

Of course to do so would require treating players like humans, which the league office is incapable of doing.

[ElDosEquis]

Any 'board' that had any say in player penalties would have to be approved by the NFLPA and the commissioner's office.

RG gets shit about his decisions to suspend/fine players because of the articles set forth in the CBA.

He only can do so much - in the way of suspending a player - and again, there is no specific wording about OTF shenanigans and twattery that the players seem to get into?

Every case is different - six games is the default suspension - so why the hatred for RG? His hands are tied because the PA would NEVER agree to that specific wording in the contract.

What about that asshole Suh? He gets to play as long as he doesn't kill or maim someone. He just pays the top tier fine and goes on his merry way. He's happy with the CBA because it doesn't address his cumulative stupidity.

Fine them and take the full amount from their paychecks.

Increase the fines and call for suspensions when a player gets more than one infraction - style it after the soccer/futbol yellow/red card system? Two yellows turns into red card and you get booted for the next games?

It's NOT all about Roger G being a simp when he deals with the assholes in the league, it's the player's CBA that is to blame.

[NinjaPenguins]

As the famous philosopher Spiderman once learned, with great power comes great responsibility. If it's good enough for Spiderman, then by gum it's good enough for Roger Goodell. As a female fan, I can only offer my appreciation of his priorities: 1) acting sketchy about the air pressure of footballs 2) touchdown celebrations 996) domestic abuse. Bravo, sir.

[ElDosEquis]

I tend to leave cartoon crime fighting to cartoon characters, There would be no need for a commish of any sport having to rule on cheaters, abusers, drug addicts and fools that get caught shooting themselves or others if it was a perfect world.

It's kinda funny that college educated (lol) adult men - who do play a game for a living - can't find a way to behave during the season, hell.........All year round.

Blaming a guy who has to rule on the antics of a bunch of men who can't seem to find that thread of manhood and responsibility is quite entertaining.

As a fan of the game, I just want a good effort every time out and the guys on my team to stop acting like fucking children that cannot stop tripping over their penises.

Nothing more, nothing less

[NinjaPenguins]

I don't think anyone is blaming Goodell for the player behavior, which is absolutely the responsibility of the individual athlete. When they violate NFL rules, Goodell handles it like hot garbage. He doesn't seem to handle his job as Chief Punisher with any sense of proportion or sound judgement. 

[ElDosEquis]

Isn't the punisher another cartoon?

RG is stuck between the owners and the players.

He is the person who is supposed to keep the ship on an even keel and it's hard to do that when you have megalomaniacs who have invested beau coup dollars in players that end up being the turds in a punchbowl.

Every armchair owner, player, fan and commissioner has an idea as to how penalties and fines are to be meted out.

Owners are going to howl like stuck pigs when some  idiot is suspected of letting the air outta balls, stomps a player on the field or goes on a PED/drug suspension. It's all about the money and owners protecting their investments. They aren't going to tell RG, 'Sure suspend one of the star players on my team/league for MORE than a quarter of the season because they were stupid'.

RG doesn't have a 'playbook' or 'films' to study, he has no previous cases to fall back on when something like deflategate comes across his desk. I have to laugh at the people who were so incensed about tommy terrific getting busted and the amount /length of that case took.

If it was happening to the Pats - that the other teams in the league were punking them?

Kraft, Belichek and TB would be screamind bloody murder, along with the fan base.

I wouldn't want to do RG's job, there are too many whiners - players, owners and fans -to mollify and anything he rules on is gonna get at least two factions mad at him.

Not only is there the current slate of problems to deal with, there is the concussion debacle that the NFL is still smarting about.

I personally don't want to hear about suspensions/fines, buffoons with causes and cheaters.

I just want to watch football

[MarkHB]

20 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

Any 'board' that had any say in player penalties would have to be approved by the NFLPA and the commissioner's office.

After the Deflategate ruckus, much of which had to do with the fairness of the Commissioner acting as investigator, sentencing agent and court of appeal (and court decisions that essentially said, "yeah, that's what it says in the CBA"), it occurred to me that there is a route that could be pursued in the next CBA.  If I were negotiating for the NFLPA, I'd suggest using the Court of Arbitration for Sport as the appeal route.  None of the US major leagues use it, but AFAIK there's no reason they couldn't.

[Ohwell]

13 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

I personally don't want to hear about suspensions/fines, buffoons with causes and cheaters.

I just want to watch football

Same here.  

I'm also tired of hearing about the domestic violence stuff.  It's important, but it should be left to the courts to deal with.

[merylinkid]

Then NFLPA could have made changes in the last CBA with Goodell being judge, jury and executioner.   They chose to focus on the money instead.   For a larger salary cap, they ignored the effect of Goodell having such arbitrary power.   For all the squawking of the players right now about being fined for end zone celebrations while Josh Brown gets paid to not play, do not expect anything different at the next negotiations.   It's always been this way.   The Union had trouble getting started even because the star players knew they were going to be treated well no matter and didn't care about standing with the little guys.   They even bargained away true free agency in 1975 which they had won in court.   

[ElDosEquis]

2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

After the Deflategate ruckus, much of which had to do with the fairness of the Commissioner acting as investigator, sentencing agent and court of appeal (and court decisions that essentially said, "yeah, that's what it says in the CBA"), it occurred to me that there is a route that could be pursued in the next CBA.  If I were negotiating for the NFLPA, I'd suggest using the Court of Arbitration for Sport as the appeal route.  None of the US major leagues use it, but AFAIK there's no reason they couldn't.

Good idea but you run into the problem of timing - If you DO change the arbitration process - wouldn't the players want to change the suspension/fine rulings by the commish, too?

If they change to the CoAoS style of appeals, wouldn't the player's demand to be allowed to play  pending the court's decision? You'd get guys who were arrested and bail out, allowed to play until the Sport Court ruled on their eligibility (guilt/innocence)? 

--------

RG really had no recourse when it come to doling out punishments - what constitutes a 6 game expulsion when 6 games is all that he can hand out? The outcry comes from the people who (rightfully so) don't think that beating your wife is the same offense compared to letting the air outta balls? 

Example? What are people going to say if Suh happens to stomp on a player and breaks his leg and he gets a 4 game suspension? People are going to go crazy and ask why deflating balls is just as bad as a physical assault (in the sense that it is a malicious event) during a game?

--------

Union/owner CBA contract arbitration talks aren't one side walking into the room and saying, "Hey we want this......." and the other side agreeing? They other side WILL counter and someplace in the middle is where things will end up.

The owners WILL want to keep RG/and commish to have THAT power. So will the players?

RG is the buffer between those two groups - on any day he is going to be a buffoon or the guy that makes a great decision?

DeflateGate?

The penalty wasn't enough, it was too severe, it took too long, there should have been a trial, it was nothing, the NFL office 'dropped the ball', Tommy B got what he deserved, I hate Bill B/the Pats.........

[mojoween]

Having games on at 9, 1, 4, and 8 is actually a GREAT way to spend a Sunday.

[Morrigan2575]

Giants are freaking killing me. 

[mojoween]

Right?!?  For every thing they do well they offset it by stupidity or poor play.  Or both.

Harris shoulda let that ball go at the end of the first half.

[mojoween]

Woo!  I will take it, no matter how anemic the offense is and how bad the Rams may or may not be.  Hello defense!

[Morrigan2575]

A win is a win, I'll take it. I just wish The Giants weren't a weekly episode of masochistic television. ?

[ElDosEquis]

I saw a few minutes of a pregame show where they spoke about that idiot, Burfict, from the bengals who was stepping on players.

He also has a been fined for pulling stupid shit on the field.

One of the guests said that Burfict's twattery was/could "take food out of a player's mouth" by stepping on/trying to hurt other players.

They spoke about guys 'just writing a check' and being able to keep playing.

THEN THEY INVOKED the name of the commish saying that he 'wasn't doing enough to protect the players' by allowing this clown to stay on the field. They said that fines for Burfict weren't enough and RG needed to step up.

Apparently they spoke about DV before I tuned in - because they then began shaming RG for NOT being able to do more (handing out penalties) in either case and what a crappy job he was doing.

The more I hear chowderheads (former players and analysts) talk about the problems in the League and be so ill informed or ignorant as to how the player's contract/CBA limits the ability of the commissioner to commish?

I laugh.

It really doesn't matter WHAT RG does.....I ain't a fan of the NFL bigwigs or League office either. But I am entertained at the general stupidity when it comes to really seeing how the NFL works?

[Fukui San]

Let's ask ourselves why don't other leagues get this bad publicity on a regular basis?

The Cubs closer Aroldis Chapman is a domestic abuser.  The Cubs traded for him with this knowledge. It's barely a blip in the World Series hype.

Derrick Rose just got found "not liable" on a gang rape charge. While he's not going to jail, the details of the case are very unseemly. And yet no one claims this reflects badly on the NBA. Perhaps some are throwing shade at the Knicks.

Only the NFL. Why?  Because Roger Goodell sold himself as the moral savior of the thuggish warriors of the NFL. He decided to police the players' morals in addition to the on field infractions. And so he invites scrutiny to his decisions and to compare the severity of the punishments of different actions.

The fact is that Goodell is terrible at both on field and off field disciplines. There is not consistency whatsoever. It's apparent that the severity of punishments are much more determined by the players and teams relationship to the league office than the severity of the infractions. And the relative underpunishments of domestic abuse makes it apparent that he's cut from the same cloth as Brock Turner's judge. There are multiple howlers every season.  Do we remember one unwise decision from the Tagliabue era? 

Goodell sucks and it's not the CBA. He should get out of the morality policing business ASAP. I'd prefer he'd get out of the Commissioner business altogether too.

[Popples]

6 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

The fact is that Goodell is terrible at both on field and off field disciplines. There is not consistency whatsoever. It's apparent that the severity of punishments are much more determined by the players and teams relationship to the league office than the severity of the infractions. And the relative underpunishments of domestic abuse makes it apparent that he's cut from the same cloth as Brock Turner's judge. There are multiple howlers every season.  Do we remember one unwise decision from the Tagliabue era? 

 

Seriously. He just gave an interview in London about how players have to be role models. So twerking makes you irredeemably immoral, but as long as there isn't any footage of domestic abuse it's fine. Plus, he has overreached way too many times. Like when he gave Terrelle Pryor a five game suspension for incidents that happened in college. Pryor left the school over the summer and was eligible for the supplementary draft, but Goodell shouldn't have any power to suspend him for things when he wasn't even in the NFL. Selling autographed sports memorabilia (which I think college athletes should be able to do, but that's a for a different topic) still isn't even in the same ball park as spousal abuse and sexual assault.

[DrSpaceman73]

I realize any change to the disciplinary procedure would have to be agreed on by the league and the CBA. 

I would think by now both sides realize how screwed up it is and how much it needs to change. 

[merylinkid]

And the Browns did not end the game with the same QB they started with -- again.

Most teams have 3 quarterbacks on the roster, with two active on game day.   I think the Browns need like 5 or 6 with all of them active on game day.   I'm sure they can have fewer back ups somewhere else -- like receiver.

[MarkHB]

Did I see on a crawl that the Browns have hired a guy named Benjamin Pierce of Crabapple Cove, Maine as their new coach of quarterbacks? I guess he goes by Hawkeye...

[mojoween]

Seattle's road uniforms look like someone washed white uniforms with black shirts.

[Popples]

22 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Seattle's road uniforms look like someone washed white uniforms with black shirts.

I guess we know who doesn't do their laundry.

[twoods]

Did I see a clip on ESPN blaming Colin's protests for the drop in ratings? Yeah....I don't think that's it.

Stupid Bills lose to the crappy Dolphins. Guess another year of the Cheats winning the division. 

[stealinghome]

Glad the Pats beat the Steelers, but what a sloppy game from both sides. It was like the battle of the incompetent kickers, and Gostowski, Allen, Bolden, and Edelman should consider themselves lucky Belichick didn't make them walk back to Foxboro.

on the flip side, at least the Pats will come out with their asses on fire against the Bills next week. Should be a good game.

those Seahawks uniforms really are...something.

[BitterApple]

The Seahawks uniforms look like the "before" in a Tide with Bleach commercial.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, twoods said:

Did I see a clip on ESPN blaming Colin's protests for the drop in ratings? Yeah....I don't think that's it.

Apparently there's a #BoycottNFL thing going on, specifically because the league won't come down on him for it.

Those Seattle uniforms remind me of the trash bags the city makes me buy.

[twoods]

3 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Apparently there's a #BoycottNFL thing going on, specifically because the league won't come down on him for it.

Those Seattle uniforms remind me of the trash bags the city makes me buy.

That really sucks. He's not abusing, twerking, or bothering anyone. So tired of the double standard when half of these fools complaining probably never cared about the anthem before. Don't need them watching the NFL when they are too busy drowning in their self virtue.

Edited October 24, 2016 by twoods

[stealinghome]

I'm kind of bummed the Seahawks tied it up, only because I was wondering if a 3-0 game would have been the lowest-scoring in NFL history.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Glad the Pats beat the Steelers, but what a sloppy game from both sides. It was like the battle of the incompetent kickers, and Gostowski, Allen, Bolden, and Edelman should consider themselves lucky Belichick didn't make them walk back to Foxboro.

 

I was actually getting nervous until Pittsburgh fell apart in the 4th quarter. Jones didn't suck as badly as I thought he was going to. There were a few bright moments for the Pats with Gronk's receptions, but Edleman's and Bolden's drops made me face palm so hard I nearly broke my nose.

[merylinkid]

the 2007 game in the rain in Pittsburgh between Dolphins-Steelers was 3-0.    The ball literally got stuck in the mud on a punt.   At least those teams had an excuse.

 

There have been FIVE 2-0 games in NFL history.  None of them in the Super Bowl era.

[BitterApple]

Woooooowwww. I'd hate to be the Arizona kicker right now.

[stealinghome]

Oh wow. I take it back--THIS was the battle of incompetent kickers, good Lord.

[Magog]

What the hell did I just watch tonight?

[King of Birds]

[Bastet]

What. the. actual. fuck?

I'm stingy with "I could do that" declarations, but, yeah, I would have had a good chance at making that FG.  Give her enough catnip, and my cat would have had a good shot at it.

I could not understand why Arizona kept pushing forward rather than just kicking it, and then they kicked it.  Okay, sucks to be you.  Then my Seahawks miss an even easier three. 

It's been a long time since I watched two talented teams work so hard to lose a game.  So I suppose it's only fitting it end in a tie.

[merylinkid]

Whatever we did to piss off Football Jesus, we need to apologize right away.   Lest we get more games like that one.   

[xaxat]

Back in the eighties, there was an overtime game between the Cards and the Giants(?) where both teams missed chip shot game winning field goals.

Never thought I'd see that again.

[merylinkid]

Here's a stat from ESPN:   There have been 3 6-6 ties in NFL history.   All the Cardinals fault.  1970 at KC, 1982 at Philly and tonight.   DAMN.