NFL Thread

[mojoween]

I do find it shady that the phone was destroyed the day the Wells report was released. Full disclosure...I find Brady shady and devious anyways.

[Ohwell]

Yeah, I think he needs the change of scenery. He's not suddenly awful. He had a major injury and it probably messed with him a little. Not to mention that it's criminal Shanahan even put him in that playoff game. No way was he physically ready to play. But, oh, no, you have to be literally paralyzed in order to not play a game. Everyone has to play hurt. 

We here in the DMV still talk about Shanahan putting him back in the game.  That was the beginning of the end and we all knew it.  Sure, he's got ego problems but he didn't deserve the treatment he got here.  I was actually hoping he'd get signed somewhere else (not in the NFC East though) and do well with another team.  I'm dreading the coverage here if he doesn't do well.

[xaxat]

Most celebs use burn phones, because of TMZ and such, so what Brady did isn't that unusual...

As mojoween wrote, it is when you do it the day before your are about to be interviewed on your actions by someone who is, in a sense, your boss.

Edited July 28, 2015 by xaxat

[Rick Kitchen]

 

As mojoween wrote, it is when you do it the day before your are about to be interviewed on your actions by someone who is, in a sense, your boss.

 

In what sense?  The commissioner works for the teams, not the other way around.

[xaxat]

In the sense the Goodell is the one that administers disciplinary action, not the owners.

[Crs97]

As mojoween wrote, it is when you do it the day before your are about to be interviewed on your actions by someone who is, in a sense, your boss.

And apparently you explain that you always, always destroy your old phone when you get a new one, as they are holding an old, old phone you just gave them. He deserves four games just for being stupid.

[ganesh]

Really. People use burners all the time. The fact that Brady has to prove his innocence is ridiculous. What a mess.

I can't imagine the defending superbowl champs are just going to let one of the best players in the league sit out a quarter of the season.

[DrSpaceman]

Brady has to prove his innocence because a huge amount of evidence, even if it is circumstantial, points in the direction of the team cheating and him knowing about it. This is not a court of law with the same standard and circumstantial evidence most certainly can play into the decision. Its not ridiculous in the least bit.  Its a part of the very rules he and the team are supposed to abide by.  And the fact the Pats and him doing anything and everything they can to try and circumvent those rules and not get caught in the process is the very reason why he got a 4 game suspension.  Its the reason why other teams hate them beyond just the " jealously" claim of Pats fans.  Its the reason why the other owners, and no I don't just mean Irsay and Bisciotti but I think the majority of the other owners in the league I think still back Goodell in this even if they do think an inflated ball is not that big of a deal.  Its not about inflated balls, it never has been.  Its about the rest of the league tiring of the Pats cheating ways and wanting a stop put to it with a strong statement.  Whether they truly cheat or its a perception or what the real truth is we as fans will never know.  My personal opinion is this a huge power struggle behind the scenes though about a bunch of owners vs. Kraft and the Pats that are tired of what they perceive at least as an unfair playing field and wanting something done about it.  Kraft and this case are simply a pawn or part of that game.  The case is symbolic of what the other owners see as lack of enforcement of league rules. 

 

If they didn't want Brady missing a quarter of the season they should have handled this better from the beginning. 

 

And not cheated, but thats the easy answer. 

 

No matter what type of phone it was Brady was using and what he normally does with his phones, he knew there was a league investigtion and they may very likely wanted information as evidence from that phone and he destroyed it.  Brady backers seem to want a double standard to exist where they think there should be a burden of proof like what is seen in a court of law to convict him, but at the same time think it should be OK to knowingly and willfully destroy evidence.  If theoretically this WAS a court of law that tried this case, he would not be convicted of deflating balls but he would likely very quickly and easily be charged and prosecuted for destroying key evidence.  You can't have it both ways. 

[merylinkid]

It's called spoliation of evidence.   It's a basic rule of evidence that if someone destroys something that could be evidence it can be construed they had something to hide.

 

Sure, Tom  Brady always destroyed his phone.   I believe that given how famous he AND his wife are.   But, he destroyed it AFTER the investigation began and AFTER he had been asked for the texts.   He couldn't secure it in a safety deposity box for a little while?  He just HAD to get a new phone right then?

 

Does he have to prove his innocence?   Well, not prove his innocence, but the CBA says the players will cooperate with NFL investigations.   The players gave the power to the Commissioner to investigate and hand out discipline.   That means, yeah, Tom Brady had a duty to preserve evidence that he reasonably knew (remember he had already been asked for the texts) might be part of of the investigation.

 

The Wells Report had a lot of flaws.   Mostly, no one knows WHY footballs have to be in the specified range other than it's been in the rules going back to the 1940s.   No one has ever bother to investigate the effect of weather on footballs before.    If all the NFL had was the Wells Report, there should be no suspension.

 

But then Brady destroys possible evidence.   You don't destroy evidence that can exonerate you.   So not only was there the inference he had something to hide, but he violated his duties under the CBA.

 

He was wrong and he is being suspended for it.   He loses a 1/4 of the season for a possible miniscule advantage.   And maybe he didn't do it.   But he looks bad for doing it and the Commish is within his power to draw a negative inference from it.  

[ganesh]

Ok, that's fair. The players did screw up the CBA. I'd like to hear an account of the commissioner and Brady talking about why the phone was destroyed though. But just because one looks bad isn't a reason for administering an egregious penalty. It's the same as saying that the Pats are cheaters so punish Brady now. My whole sticking point is the penalties to the organization seemed more that sufficient. 

 

I just really want this to be a huge mess and the NFL to look bad. The enjoyment of just watching a game has nearly burned out of me. I really want this to go to court. What does Brady have to lose? The suspension stands either way. 

[Crs97]

Is it true that after the Jets taping scandal Bellichick was told one more and he is banned? I think going to court where people now testify under oath and can be subject to criminal perjury charges is a very dangerous step for Tom and the Pats. They had better be very sure no one did anything because you take it to that level and someone changes his story after putting his hand on a bible? The Patriots will never be the same. I think they would be best served to sit Tom down. Just this appeal process lost them some Brady defenders. Four games isn't the end of the world: they'll make it to the playoffs anyway.

[Dejana]

New Tom Brady statement (via official Facebook page):

 

I am very disappointed by the NFL’s decision to uphold the 4 game suspension against me. I did nothing wrong, and no one in the Patriots organization did either.

 

Despite submitting to hours of testimony over the past 6 months, it is disappointing that the Commissioner upheld my suspension based upon a standard that it was “probable” that I was “generally aware” of misconduct. The fact is that neither I, nor any equipment person, did anything of which we have been accused. He dismissed my hours of testimony and it is disappointing that he found it unreliable.

 

I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline.

 

Most importantly, I have never written, texted, emailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC Championship game in January. To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL information it requested is completely wrong.

 

To try and reconcile the record and fully cooperate with the investigation after I was disciplined in May, we turned over detailed pages of cell phone records and all of the emails that Mr. Wells requested. We even contacted the phone company to see if there was any possible way we could retrieve any/all of the actual text messages from my old phone. In short, we exhausted every possibility to give the NFL everything we could and offered to go thru the identity for every text and phone call during the relevant time. Regardless, the NFL knows that Mr. Wells already had ALL relevant communications with Patriots personnel that either Mr. Wells saw or that I was questioned about in my appeal hearing. There is no “smoking gun” and this controversy is manufactured to distract from the fact they have zero evidence of wrongdoing.

 

I authorized the NFLPA to make a settlement offer to the NFL so that we could avoid going to court and put this inconsequential issue behind us as we move forward into this season. The discipline was upheld without any counter offer. I respect the Commissioners authority, but he also has to respect the CBA and my rights as a private citizen. I will not allow my unfair discipline to become a precedent for other NFL players without a fight.

 

Lastly, I am overwhelmed and humbled by the support of family, friends and our fans who have supported me since the false accusations were made after the AFC Championship game. I look forward to the opportunity to resume playing with my teammates and winning more games for the New England Patriots.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Dejana

[bosawks]

I just want the end result to be that Roger looks like and even bigger toolbag than he already does and hopefully our long national nightmare will be over.

Any news about if they were able to resurrect the corpse of Pete Rozzelle?

[jcin617]

I just find it incredulous that all this about the phone comes out now, conveniently when he needs to justify the penalty.   Personally, I think Roger is being shrewd: he's being pressured by the other owners to hold up the suspension, but at the same time wanted to avoid people pointing out the disconnect between 4 games for this and 4 games for Hardy's domestic violence penalty reduction.   Using the phone story as his justification makes it seem worse and now that's all everyone is talking about.

 

I hope the NFLPA goes to court, I really do.

[mojoween]

Unless I'm reading more into it than is there, Tommy Boy contradicts himself with the whole phone issue. He was told the actual phone wouldn't be needed, so he destroyed the phone, but made all the text and emails available, and tried to retrieve all the info, but didn't think the phone was necessary.

And I'm just a mere plebe, but I've never destroyed a phone when I bought a new one, I've just wiped it clean. Are they using destroy metaphorically? Or did he go all Lindsey Graham on it?

[FuriousStyles]

Totally agree with the thought that Brady/Pats fans want their cake and to eat it too.

I believe it was the Watergate scandal that coined the phrase "its not the crime, its the cover-up". During that press conference Brady did, when he said he didn't believe he was a cheater (eye-roll), had he just fessed up and said, yeah I like my balls to feel a certain way but I dont have any idea about PSI and whatever else, but I take full responsibility (as a leader should) for any steps that were over the line etc. etc. this all would have been over. But the fact that he not only wasn't even remotely believable but also got caught lying....didn't he say he didnt even know the equipment guys or ever talked to them?....And nowww we find out he destroyed his phone. Even if I believe that for security reason Brady will destroy his phone and get a new one, the timing of it is HIGHLY suspicious, as is the fact that I believe they said he still has a phone that's older than the one he destroyed.

I mean, is Brady going to ask the equipment guys to destroy their phones too? This whole thing was made into a big deal not by Goodell or the league, but by Tom Brady himself. I fully believe he was defiant and uncooperative.

[ganesh]

So, this thing about the phone is new? I thought it was something already known and I just didn't hear about it. Would all the information about texts etc., be with the carrier anyway?

[FuriousStyles]

Totally agree with the thought that Brady/Pats fans want their cake and to eat it too.

I believe it was the Watergate scandal that coined the phrase "its not the crime, its the cover-up". During that press conference Brady did, when he said he didn't believe he was a cheater (eye-roll), had he just fessed up and said, yeah I like my balls to feel a certain way but I dont have any idea about PSI and whatever else, but I take full responsibility (as a leader should) for any steps that were over the line etc. etc. this all would have been over. But the fact that he not only wasn't even remotely believable but also got caught lying....didn't he say he didnt even know the equipment guys or ever talked to them?....And nowww we find out he destroyed his phone. Even if I believe that for security reasons Brady destroys his phone when getting a new one, the timing of it is HIGHLY suspicious, as is the fact that I believe they said he still has a phone that's older than the one he destroyed.

I mean, is Brady going to ask the equipment guys to destroy their phones too? This whole thing was made into a big deal not by Goodell or the league, but by Tom Brady himself. I fully believe he was defiant and uncooperative.

Edited July 29, 2015 by FuriousStyles

[Crs97]

It's always the cover-up that gets you.

[xaxat]

This whole thing is a freakin' mess. Regardless of the outcome, no one is going to come out a winner.

[Fukui San]

Yes. And just what was Sandra Bland hiding?  Why didn't she just cooperate with that nice policeman?

 

And if that Duke Lacrosse team just admitted guilt, none of that unpleasantness would have been necessary. 

 

And Richard Jewell could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he just admitted planting those bombs. 

 

Yep, no reason not to turn over a phone when you're one of the most famous people on earth married to one of the most famous supermodels on earth to an out of control power mad dictator who leaks every single thing to one of dozens of eager friendly media sources in the most damaging way possible. No reason not to fear a railroading from people who hired the same scientists tobacco companies hired to argue that cigarettes didn't cause cancer, more likely than not.  Nothing at all to see here.

 

I get that other teams hate the Pats and want to see them screwed.  That's OK.  There were times that I would have been happy to hear that the Yankees' plane had crashed into a mountain with only Mariano Rivera surviving. I get sports hatred. But please don't pretend that this is anything but a sham propaganda war by an out of control power mad commissioner. If you were accused of a crime, would you want Goodell judging you?  Well, maybe if you beat your wife.

 

For the good of his career and the league Brady has to win or die trying. He has nothing left to prove on a football field if he never takes another snap. Accepting anything other than total exoneration when the league has been unable to demonstrate any wrongdoing to credible observers (and they haven't) and resorting to a campaign of propaganda and innuendo will be the day that destroys him.  At this point it's more important than the season and the remainder of his career.

[merylinkid]

You cannot retrieve messages from the carrier.   The carrier does not save them.   The carrier only has a record of the number that you sent or received a text from.  This comes up in litigation all the time.   People delete important texts, or even you need them in a usable form in court.    You go ask your carrier for them and find out they don't exist on some server somewhere.

 

The phone destruction is new.   It's different than all the other cases.   Maybe Brady really didn't do anything wrong.   But the spoliation of evidence rule rests on the legal belief that innocent people don't destroy the evidence that would prove their innocence.

 

Take the Duke Lacrosse rape case.   I believe it was a receipt that showed at least one of the boys was at an ATM at the same time the dancer claimed she was being raped.  He had that receipt that showed the time and date on it.   Proof that her story didn't make sense.   That led to the unraveling of it (among other things).   Now suppose he didn't have that receipt?   What starts the unraveling then?

[caracas1914]

I wouldn't want anyone having full access to all my phone texts including potentially embarassing personal ones, and yes they would be leaked eventually.

[ganesh]

So the carrier still knows who Brady texted and when. Subpoena the records and put him under oath. If he admits to wrongdoing than punish him. I don't think anyone thinks the organization shouldn't have been punished. It's taking Brady of for a quarter of the season based on hearsay that seems problematic.

I think Goodell really stepped in it by singling out Brady. If it was just the fine and draft picks, this would be easy over.

I get the whole cover up concept, but to mention this in the same sentence as Watergate is absurd. There's no criminal conspiracy here routing out the foundations of our democracy.

[jcin617]

I hope Roger wasn't planning on attending the season kick-off at Gillette.   Talk about awkward.

[FuriousStyles]

To even evoke the name of someone who lost their life is absolutely ridiculous, and just goes to show the lengths gone to defend the great Tom Brady. As people have said ad nauseum...this is NOT a criminal matter, so NONE of those cases are even remotely comparable.

If Tom Brady had nothing to hide then turn over the damn phone. Or at the very least allow the agent/lawyer to sift through the texts and hand over the pertinent information which Ted Wells said he would have gladly allowed. Tom didnt even want to do that!

He was wholly uncooperative and then has the gall to be upset when the league came to their own conclusion and dished out their punishment? LMAO. If Brady was interested in helping to form the narrative of what really happened, he should have cooperated. Period.

[caracas1914]

The problem is the perception by the League that Brady knew something is equivalent to saying he is guilty and should get the maximum penalty as such. You can be sure the Pats office/attorneys were advising him on what to do yet he alone is singled out as if they have evidence to come down that hard.

The NFL decided to draw the line with him and it just seems they created a PR mess that is going to dominate the conversation away from the actual football yet again.

As someone said, slap a fine on the team but this heavy handed approach specifically targeting Brady just seems pile on.

Edited July 29, 2015 by caracas1914

[ganesh]

I'd be saying the same thing myself if this was any of the league's top tier guys. I just think this is an egregious violation of due process.

I don't see why anyone accused of anything had an obligation to cooperate. I wouldn't voluntarily hand my phone over and I'm a nobody. The burden isn't on me. That's been a bedrock legal protection for 200 years. No one would willingly hand their phone over and no lawyer would advise it.

[merylinkid]

This is not a criminal matter.   The due process he is entitled to is that outlined in the CBA, duly bargained for between the NFLPA and the NFL.    Although not quite sure since I have not read the entire CBA, it is pretty standard to have clauses in there about cooperation with any investigation of violations of RULES.   Rules not laws.   

 

Believe me, if your employer is investigating who posted the racist note in the break room (not a crime) and you don't cooperate, your employed CAN AND WILL suspend you.   Not for posting the note.   But for not cooperating.

 

Brady did not cooperate.   And now he is whining that not cooperating got him punished.   

[ganesh]

That's my problem. Due process is expected in criminal and civil matters. I can't get past that the punishment doesn't fit the crime nor how the CBA seemingly trumps common law. That's why I want this to go to court.

If my employer suspends me for something I didn't do or demands I hand over my phone without a court order, then I'm talking them to court. It's not on me to prove my innocence.

[Minneapple]

I've reached my breaking point on this. Sit him or not, I don't care. Can we just start the season already?

[Carey]

I think any CBA can't take presedence over common law, but one might agree that the CBA is common law.  In other words, if the US and/or government acknowledges it, then any rule or punishment for violation of a rule within the CBA is fair game.  I agree I'd go to court if I was a victim here, though I'd also try my best not to put myself in a situation that'll have me get into trouble.  That, and cooperate sans a violation of my privacy

[DrSpaceman]

No one ever asked him to hand over his phone, so that is true not the question at hand and relevant to the discussion

 

Wells told him he could keep his phone, just hand over any texts that might be relevant to the investigation.  he even told him he could and his lawyers could do it themselves, they would trust them.  Wells never asked for physical possession of Tom Brady's phone. 

 

And sure if its not a court order, you don't have to do it.  But if there is information relevant to the investigation, or that could be relevant, and you refuse to provide it, at ANY job, sure you can go to court, but you are likely getting suspended until that court date.  They aren't just going to get you keep working while awaiting a court date. and yes, you are then going to have a higher burden to prove your innocence. 

 

And at any job, if there is an investigation under way you destroy potential evidence, whether you plan on handing it over or not, you are going to be in trouble. 

 

Brady and the players try to play both sides to their benefit.  They want to be able to pick and choose what information they provide in an investigation, but at the same time, they want the burden of proof like in a court of law to be suspended.  Doesn't work that way, not in the NFL or in any job.  Brady has no right to play in the NFL and his civil rights or any other rights are not being violated by them denying him the chance to play for 4 games.  Its the way the CBA is set up.  If the comissioner does not feel you are cooperating or playing by their rules, he can suspend you and not let you play.  You can refuse to provide your cell phone or any information, its your right legally.  But Goodell then also has the right to not let you play

 

If they don't like that set up, blame the NFLPA for not changing this system.  Its collectively bargained and agreed upon by the players. 

 

Plus there is the fact he never told wells that not only would he not hand over his cell phone records, but in fact the cell phone no longer existed.  Its critical information he did not state at the time it came up so it got left out of the report.  Wells didn't know it.  The fact he destroyed potential information, whether it was going to be used or not, and did not admit to destroying said information when asked about it, is further proof he isn't cooperating and never planned to do so. 

[merylinkid]

The law on collective bargaining says that the CBA trumps things like due process -- because the represented parties can freely and fairly bargain away their due process rights in the agreement.    Now a CBA can't do anything illegal.    And the Adrian Peterson verdict was because the League didn't follow their own procedures in the CBA.    Courts have consisently upheld freely bargained CBA provisions for DECADES.    They are not suddenly going to change because Tom Brady got suspended for 4 games.   

 

Remember we are not talking deprivation of life or liberty here.   We are talking money.    Even in a civil context due process is more relaxed.    For instance, take the 5th Amended right.   In criminal cases, your right to remain silent cannot legally be held against you.   In a civil case, if you plead the 5th, a court can draw a negative inference from it.

 

We are conflating many ideas here:   criminal law, civil law, and collective bargaining law.   All have different standards.    You cannot cross pollinate them just to support your side.   Which is what Brady is trying to do.    He is part of the CBA that gave Goodell the power to investigate and hand out punishment.   The CBA sets the standard of proof that Goodell must use.   It most likely also sets out how much one must cooperate with an investigation.   And asking for text messages relevant to an investigation is not that far out of line (remember last year when everyone got mad at Goodell for NOT requesting the Ray Rice video?).   Brady cannot complain he didn't get due process under a criminal standard when that is not the relevant standard.   He wants to use criminal law, not CBA agreements.  

 

The NFLPA doesn't like how Goodell hands out discpline?    Well that they should not have agreed to it in the last collective bargaining agreement.   No one forced them to agree to it.   But they were all so busy on making sure there was more money available that they ignored the non-monetary side of things.    

[DrSpaceman]

So the carrier still knows who Brady texted and when. Subpoena the records and put him under oath. If he admits to wrongdoing than punish him. I don't think anyone thinks the organization shouldn't have been punished. It's taking Brady of for a quarter of the season based on hearsay that seems problematic.

I think Goodell really stepped in it by singling out Brady. If it was just the fine and draft picks, this would be easy over.

I get the whole cover up concept, but to mention this in the same sentence as Watergate is absurd. There's no criminal conspiracy here routing out the foundations of our democracy.

 

 

If Brady was not suspended over this then the Pats would keep right on cheating.  A fine and draft picks is not a deterent to further cheating by the Pats. 

 

That is exactly what the Pats wanted to expected, basically blame the balll boys and stonewall with brady, have him admit nothing. 

 

its a cowards way our for brady and the team, admitting nothing and blaming underlings that no one for a second believes would deflate balls on their own with no approval from Brady or someone else.  Goodell and the rest of the owners knew this and were not standing for it. 

 

This is the line in the sand moment between the Pats and the rest of the teams, goodell is just the front man for it sending out the message.  The messgae is cheating won't be tolerated and you won't be weasling your way out of it via obstruction and legalese, just letting minor figures who were not in charge taking the blame

[ganesh]

I totally agree this mess is on the union in the first place.

[caracas1914]

I don't think I have an issue with the League doling out penalites/fines. However I think you specify it's for obstructing the process and not being able to gather evidence due to the team's lack of cooperation.

[xaxat]

I totally agree this mess is on the union in the first place.

 

I think blame also falls on Goodell. Part of this confrontation stems from the fact that Goodell decided that he was going to be the sheriff, unilaterally imposing justice as he saw fit.

 

Neutral parties in the cases of  Bountygate, Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy all decided that he had overstepped his bounds under the CBA in handing out punishment. And while I have no idea what the legal process in this case will determine, I can understand why Brady is fighting this. 

 

(Even though I think he is guilty and would like him, as a Steelers fan, to miss week one.)

[Carey]

I have to agree, DrSpaceman, as it relates to a suspension vs a fine.  For one, as mentioned, someone could steal $5 Million from Brady and he wouldn't even notice it was missing.  Well, chances are no one's stealing from Tom.  Plus there's a maximum amount of money someone can get fined for (typically the highest ranking people would have a max of a million or half a million).

 

Brings me back to what Rodney Harrison said a long time ago, I believe.  He was getting fined left and right, and the discipline didn't really hit him until a suspension was served.  Money comes & goes, but not being available to help your team win is a big deal. 

 

It will be significant (or not) without Tom Brady available.  You have to send a message that the suspects or those in the wrong will get.  That way, they won't do what they've been doing anymore.  Well, they shouldn't.  Of course, a punishment has to be within reason, and not so that it'll hurt to the point where a lesson is learned

[ganesh]

That's the thing. The punishment isn't reasonable. It's a violation akin to scuffing a baseball. They have already lost draft picks.

Oh, Goodell definitely shouldn't have singled out Brady. I'm saying this doesn't even happen if the CBA had an independent appeals process.

I have issues with it someone does something that makes them look guilty then they are. It makes it seem that NFL players have less legal protections than actual criminals.

If Brady is smart, he says he's fighting this for the players. By doing nothing, he's allowing a slippery slope for the next time something like this happens. I'm talking from PR pov from him.

Edited July 29, 2015 by ganesh

[pennben]

 

Yes. And just what was Sandra Bland hiding?  Why didn't she just cooperate with that nice policeman?

 

And if that Duke Lacrosse team just admitted guilt, none of that unpleasantness would have been necessary.

 

And Richard Jewell could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he just admitted planting those bombs.

 

[Paraphrasing:  Sure, no way Tom Brady should turn over relevant phone texts to a league comissioner in a dispute over potential cheating a football game].

 

I love Sesame Street, one of my favorite songs is "One of These Things Is Not Like The Other":) 

Edited July 30, 2015 by pennben

[FuriousStyles]

Im laughing at Kraft getting all upset over the suspensions being upheld. Im thinking, why does it sound like he actually *expected* something different. Was there really a wink wink, back room deal going on or what?

In any event, I hope Goodell can stick it to all parties involved. Im tired of the narrative that people are just jealous of the success the Patriots have had. I guess in some living rooms that might be the case, but for me it isnt about that. They are repeat offenders and then act like their shit dont stink. I cant stand the whole "Patriot Way" bullshit they have....Patriot Way = if you aint cheating you aint trying.

I cant stand the Spurs. As a Knicks fan, I freely admit to being totally jealous of that organization. First class ownership, coaching and players. If for some reason they ever found themselves in hot water and were being railroaded, I would not take pleasure in that, because even though I hate them, at the end of the day I respect them and what they do.

[mojoween]

Jerry Jones did a presser in praise of Goodell and said he's doing a good job so now I'm going to have to rethink everything.

[ganesh]

There wasn't a backroom deal. There's probably a majority at least of suspensions that get reduced on appeal. Much of the legit sports media thought so too. That's why it was a surprise.

The fact that they are repeat offenders shouldn't be the factor in sitting Brady for a quarter of the season. A million dollar fine and the loss of the draft picks is quite sufficient for punishing their cheating culture.

[ganesh]

More on the phone crushing.

[ebk57]

Sally Jenkins wrote a pretty good column today

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html

[ganesh]

I'm not the only person, but yeah, I've been saying like 100 times that there wasn't any due process. I so want this to go to court. People act like the CBA suddenly trumps the constitution because "they gave him authority". Well, ok, sure, and they shouldn't have, but I also assume that the 'authority' was going to inherently based on the rule of law, just like everything else in this country. 

[pennben]

 

People act like the CBA suddenly trumps the constitution because "they gave him authority"

 

Okay, there may be due process issues here regarding private employment and arbitration, but I guarantee you that there are not Constitutional issues here.  The Constitution is about the relationship between the federal government and states and individuals.

 

Heads up:   the NFL is not part of the federal government.

Edited July 31, 2015 by pennben

[DrSpaceman]

Im laughing at Kraft getting all upset over the suspensions being upheld. Im thinking, why does it sound like he actually *expected* something different. Was there really a wink wink, back room deal going on or what?

In any event, I hope Goodell can stick it to all parties involved. Im tired of the narrative that people are just jealous of the success the Patriots have had. I guess in some living rooms that might be the case, but for me it isnt about that. They are repeat offenders and then act like their shit dont stink. I cant stand the whole "Patriot Way" bullshit they have....Patriot Way = if you aint cheating you aint trying.

I cant stand the Spurs. As a Knicks fan, I freely admit to being totally jealous of that organization. First class ownership, coaching and players. If for some reason they ever found themselves in hot water and were being railroaded, I would not take pleasure in that, because even though I hate them, at the end of the day I respect them and what they do.

 

 

I made this point before about the Duke basketball. 

 

I can't stand Duke basketball.  I think my alma mater got screwed over in a Final Four game against them when I was in college and never really have gotten over it. 

 

But I respect Coach K.  He is one of the two best college basketball coaches in history.  Its him and Wooden, then everybody else.  If say theoretically one day Coach K wanted my son to play for Duke, I would encourage him to do so in a heartbeat.  I don't think he is a cheater.  I think they get the benefit of a bunch of calls, but all good teams do to some extent. 

 

The Pats, no.  BB is a great coach, but I have no respect at all for him or that organization.  The sad part is the things they are caught doing may make no difference whatsoever, they likely don't even need to be deflating footballs.  But they choose to do it anyway.  They cheat because they can and for the most part to now they have gotten away with it. 

[DrSpaceman]

I'm not the only person, but yeah, I've been saying like 100 times that there wasn't any due process. I so want this to go to court. People act like the CBA suddenly trumps the constitution because "they gave him authority". Well, ok, sure, and they shouldn't have, but I also assume that the 'authority' was going to inherently based on the rule of law, just like everything else in this country. 

 

 

The constitution protects people's civil rights in matters of issues between the government and residents of the country. 

 

Tom Brady had no civil rights violated in this case.  These are two private parties determining if he can play a game in a league that Roger Goodell is in charge of right now.  You are right he has no legal obligation to turn over his phone.  But Roger Goodell and the NFL also have no legal obligation to let him play in its league if they don't feel he is following the rules agreed to under the CBA. 

 

Its just like marijuna now in states where it has been legalized.  You can smoke marijuana or use it in those states, but the league still does not have to let you play if you are caught using it.  Its two separate issues.  Legally you won't be charged, but you are going to be suspended from the league.  And for the record I think that is stupid.  I don't understand even why marijuana, either recreational or for medical reasons, is illegal under the CBA, its not performance enhancing. Its performance hindering if anything. I have always maintained I hope everyone on the other team I am going against is using marijuana, I would hand it out in the visiting teams locker room if allowed.  Its still not allowed under the CBA though, so you use it and are caught, you are out.  And they all know this up front.