Past Plots Discussion: Whatever Happened To...

[SanDiegoInExile]

A second prime time episode was "Night Sins".  

 

These clips only cover about 20 minutes

 

[Kitty Redstone]

Thank you, SanDiegoInExile!  Can't wait to watch these later.

[LeftPhalange]

I don't know why Corday thought he could kill off half the cast and there wouldn't be backlash. 

[SanDiegoInExile]

I don't know why Corday thought he could kill off half the cast and there wouldn't be backlash.

Half the cast? They cut the dead weight to start anew, just as they have a dozen times in the past couple decades. There are always cranky fans, most of whom obsess on one or two characters, fans who maybe came to know the show when those characters were hitting the storylines out of the park and creating sensational buzz.

The roadkill:

Elephant Girl = The only sadness felt is that she wasnt whacked across the side of her head with one of those #&@% faux ivory Pier 1 tchotchkes.

Beige, er, Paige = Did anyone really lose any sleep over this one?

Will = The actor failed miserably in the recast and his better half voluntarily left the show to make millions in pyramid scam marketing.

Bo = Veteran actor clearly only wanted a limited return, with limited scenes with certain co-stars, and freed the show from his shadow.

Aiden = Arguably the only unfair axe-ing, but 20 months on the show, roughly 50 SalemDays, hardly makes him untouchable.

Daniel = Loved by many, despised by many, the character had spread his seed to every potential female love interest and no doubt was pricey salary.

Stefano = Everyone knows that The Phoenix always rises.....even from his wheelchair.

The producers import a dozen fresh faces, most of which play long term characters, or in the abused parlance of message board-dom: "legacy" characters. Some stories will fail, others will succeed, still others will lead in new directions. Just like always.

And the show earns the highest ratings in two years.

Edited January 16, 2016 by SanDiegoInExile

[LeftPhalange]

Half the cast? They cut the dead weight to start anew

I was referring to the Salem Stalker serial killer story. I hardly call Will and AIden dead weight, though. Will could have and should have gone off to Paris to work on things with Sonny until they decided to recast and Aiden was a very promising character and his pairing with Hope seemed to be popular. Why kill him off just to start a new relationship with Rafe? If they wanted to cut dead weight they would have killed off that worthless trash Abifail or at least found a competent actress.

And if the rating are good it's because the show has just come off its 50th anniversary "celebration." Lets see what they look like six months from now.

Edited January 16, 2016 by LeftPhalange

[QuelleC]

Brilliant post, SanDiego and spot on but you leave my dad LeftPhalange alone! And don't even start with my mom boes or my uncle Rick. And all of the aunts who stop by :)

[DisneyBoy]

I'm wondering why GG/Rafe survived...I appreciate that he's bringing diversity to the cast but he's bland as hell and already had several dull relationships. Why not write him out?

[Happytobehere]

I'm wondering why GG/Rafe survived...I appreciate that he's bringing diversity to the cast but he's bland as hell and already had several dull relationships. Why not write him out?

Truer words have never been spoken. Perhaps you can tell me why leading-lady repellent, duller than dish-water Rafe melts hanging in.

[Rick Kitchen]

I'm wondering why GG/Rafe survived...I appreciate that he's bringing diversity to the cast but he's bland as hell and already had several dull relationships. Why not write him out?

 

Galen Gering isn't really Hispanic.  He's Basque and Russian Jewish.

[DisneyBoy]

Hence "diversity". You guys had already stated he wasn't Hispanic...but I found him so boring anyway I promptly forgot what you said he actually was.

[LeftPhalange]

Was it ever explained how omnipowerful Stefano didn't know that Andre was keeping Lexi held captive in a tunnel? Was it ever explained why he didn't kill Andre for what he did? I guess for the same reason why he let him get away with killing Benji and brain washing Chad? Didn't Andre also kill another one of Stefano's daughters during his serial killer days? 

[DisneyBoy]

Hun...good points.

[JBC344]

Was it ever explained how omnipowerful Stefano didn't know that Andre was keeping Lexi held captive in a tunnel? Was it ever explained why he didn't kill Andre for what he did? I guess for the same reason why he let him get away with killing Benji and brain washing Chad? Didn't Andre also kill another one of Stefano's daughters during his serial killer days? 

This is one of the many glaring omissions with having Thao come back as Andre instead of Tony.  Last I remember Stefano was furious with Andre for killing Benjy.  If I'm not mistaken I feel like early on they were hinting that it was actually EJ and/or Stefano who had taken Lexi.  That was back when she was just missing, but I feel like once they had the story of her being held in a tunnel it switched to Andre being the one behind it, because neither Stefano or EJ would of treated Lexi that way.

 

Even Andre being the culprit then didn't make any sense once they revealed that Tony had been on an island for the last twenty years and it was Andre we had been watching in Salem the last twenty years.  One of the redeeming factors of Tony's character was always his really loving brother/sister relationship with Lexi especially when they were living together.  So to find out that that relationship was really Andre and Lexi made even less sense that Andre would then kidnap Lexi and keep her in a tunnel.

 

I really wish they would of had Thao come back as Tony instead.

[Happytobehere]

This is one of the many glaring omissions with having Thao come back as Andre instead of Tony.  Last I remember Stefano was furious with Andre for killing Benjy.  If I'm not mistaken I feel like early on they were hinting that it was actually EJ and/or Stefano who had taken Lexi.  That was back when she was just missing, but I feel like once they had the story of her being held in a tunnel it switched to Andre being the one behind it, because neither Stefano or EJ would of treated Lexi that way.

 

Even Andre being the culprit then didn't make any sense once they revealed that Tony had been on an island for the last twenty years and it was Andre we had been watching in Salem the last twenty years.  One of the redeeming factors of Tony's character was always his really loving brother/sister relationship with Lexi especially when they were living together.  So to find out that that relationship was really Andre and Lexi made even less sense that Andre would then kidnap Lexi and keep her in a tunnel.

 

I really wish they would of had Thao come back as Tony instead.

So much yes to all of this. Tony was/is the viable character. I love TP but I can't with Andre. He is just a purely evil caricature . I also agree that the show painted itself in a corner when they essentially created a Tandre character by having Tony be on the island. As you stated, his one saving grace during those years was his clear love for Lexie, which totally matched Tony. By making that Andre, the actions that in no way match who we know Andre to be, has created a murky mess. Andre only cared about Andre, he even hated Tony as a child, that's why he enjoyed destroying Tony's life and reputation, and he was able to link Renee and Benji in cold blood, without so much batting an eye. However, this is the same show that unDimeraed Tony only to bring in the character of his cousins, via Stefano, Andre. We were always told Andre and Tony always looked and sounded so much alike, they were often assumed to be brothers, which always begged the question of how were we the viewers or Stefano/Tony supposed to believe that Tony was not Stefano's son. I know this was done for the potential romance with Renee, but then the show killed her and made Tony Stefano's son again (and just hoped the viewers would forget that Tony had sex with Renee).

[SanDiegoInExile]

I really don't know why they didnt pull a "triplet" scenario to clear up some history.That way, Tony could remain heroic, Andre could remain Evil, and #3 (let's call him "Jed") could have been caught in the middle, having portrayed either/both Tony/Andre, thanks to Dr Rolf's wizardry.

 

The only way the current story can be salvaged was to learn that Stefano was also "brainwashed" into becoming the impotent, delusional, feeble-minded prop that was wheeled around Salem for the past few months.  Stefano would never have suddenly developed the Hope Hatred.  Sure, he might mock the Bradys, manipulate the Bradys, or loathe the Bradys, but he stopped trying to do them (deadly) harm over two decades ago.

[gazebo]

Whatever happened to Stephanie Johnson, Kayla and Steve's horny and not too bright first born? Did she move out of Salem?

[JBC344]

Yeah Stefanie left years ago.  She was involved in the Parker paternity cover up.  I believe she is the one who switched the results.

[Rick Kitchen]

Yeah Stefanie left years ago.  She was involved in the Parker paternity cover up.  I believe she is the one who switched the results.

 

Wasn't she the third person to switch those results?  Caroline did at one point, didn't she?

[LeftPhalange]

http://soapcentral.com/days/whoswho/parker.php

 

Parker Jonas was born on November 11, 2010, but his presence in Salem caused drama well before that date. Parker's mother, Chloe, had a one night stand with Philip and became pregnant. Carly found out about Chloe's affair and forced Chloe to have a paternity test. The test named Philip as the father. However, Caroline changed the test results before anyone, including Chloe and Philip, saw the results. By the time Chloe gave birth, everyone believed Daniel was Parker's father. Daniel and Chloe took Parker home to raise him together.

 

However, on the day of his baptism, Caroline burst into the church and announced that Philip was Parker's biological father. Daniel left Chloe and asked her and Parker to move out immediately. They relocated to another apartment in Salem.

Philip turned his attention to Chloe, as she was having some bad problems with depression after Daniel left her. Philip even rescued Chloe after she tried to commit suicide by jumping in the Salem river. After her suicide attempt, Chloe signed full custody of Parker over to Philip in order to avoid having child services put Parker in a foster home. Chloe continued to decline and during a drunken rant to Kate, threatened to take Parker and no one would ever see him again. Fearful that she would make good on her threats, Philip took Parker and moved to Chicago. Chloe eventually got herself together and move to Chicago as well to be around Parker.

But, in January 2013, Chloe returned to Salem with news. It turned out that Stephanie Johnson had also known about Chloe and Philip's one-night-stand and had an interest in determining who was Parker's biological father. Stephanie was dating Nathan Horton, who was really in love with Melanie, who was married to Philip.

 

Stephanie knew that if Chloe's baby turned out to be Philip's, Melanie would leave Philip and thus be free to be with Nathan. So, Stephanie asked her friend, Ian, to hack into the computer records so that she could know who the father was and prepare herself for the potential fall-out.

 

What Stephanie didn't know was that Ian was also in love with her. So, while he did hack into the hospital computer system, he did so to change the test results from Daniel to Philip, in hopes that the above described partner swap would take place and Stephanie would be single. He made the swap while Stephanie's back was turned, so that when she looked at the screen, she saw Ian's altered results -- showing Philip as Parker's father.

 

After Ian changed the results, Caroline entered the picture. She had access to medical records because was a hospital volunteer in the billing department. She saw Ian's altered test results and thought that Philip did not deserve to be a father because she did not believe that any Kiriakis would make a good father. She also didn't want Stephanie to loose Nathan, so she switched the results back to say that Daniel was Parker's father. But, no one knew that Caroline was actually switching tests that had already been switched.

 

A few months later, Ian entered a substance abuse treatment program. While going through the process of making amends, he called Stephanie and told her what he'd done. Stephanie called Kayla and Chloe. Chloe insisted on an additional paternity test. And everyone learned that Parker was always Daniel's son.

[Kitty Redstone]

Wow.  That sounds like a complete clusterfuck of a story.  Even worse than the Bo/Nora/Sam/Matthew ridiculousness that dragged on forever on OLTL (which actually caused me to stop watching for awhile).  What a shitty thing to do to Caroline.

[Bwill3133]

That was so convoluted. I think he should have stayed Philip's but too late now.

[QuelleC]

It all had to do with Melamee sucking up the air space away from Stephanie (who was really stupid after they recasted her from the red head race car driver) so Mel could be retconned into being Naggie's granddaughter so they had to invent egg baby Taniel as her father and of course spaz baby would be his.

[Rick Kitchen]

That was so convoluted. I think he should have stayed Philip's but too late now.

 

Don't count on it.  Not a spoiler, just speculation.

[gazebo]

But why exactly did Stephanie leave Salem? Where did she go?

[Dandesun]

The good news is... I've found where all the old playlists are being moved to so I can start doing the old recaps again. I was getting really frustrated there with all these ginormous holes and nothing to be done about it. ::sadface::

[teacake]

But why exactly did Stephanie leave Salem? Where did she go?

 

A while after her breakup with Nathan, she just stopped being shown and stopped being mentioned.  I thought there might have been a reference to her being in Chicago at one point (Bo called her during the "two Rafes" story, because Rafe 2 had been inappropriate with her).  But I couldn't swear to it.

 

The same thing happened to Steve and Kayla in 2009, so it runs in the family.  It was months before we found out they had picked up and moved to Africa.

[JBC344]

I believe last time she was mentioned Stefanie was in Chicago with; Phillip, Chloe, Rex, Cassie, and Celeste.  Or in other words where everyone moves to after they leave Salem. 

[plurie]

I believe last time she was mentioned Stefanie was in Chicago with; Phillip, Chloe, Rex, Cassie, and Celeste.  Or in other words where everyone moves to after they leave Salem. 

Unless they move to Europe like Carrie and Austin, Billie and Chelsea, Melanie and Carly, and Sonny. (Or Dubai, like Justin, Adrienne and their brood, or Hong Kong like Lucas.)

[JBC344]

Lol, you're right.  Europe was the original destination that everyone moved to.  Chicago was hardly ever mentioned unless to give us a proximity of where Salem was.  Now it seems like an even split between random country in Europe, or Chicago.  They have added Dubai, Hong Kong, and LA.  Of course the honorable mention of Colorado for the Evans family.

[minirth]

I've been watching episodes from early 2008, and a few things are sticking out. A lot was going on -- the college rape story, the end of the Colleen/Santos mess, Lucas confessing to shooting EJ, and my favorite -- ROBOJOHN! I can't find any episodes with RoboJohn and Claire -- he was so hilarious with her.

I miss the family unit of Kate/Billie/Chelsea. I initially found Chelsea unbearable, but by the time she hit college with Stephanie, she was more tolerable, and the more she was around Kate and Billie, the more I liked her. I really miss Billie, and I miss Kate having a child with whom she wasn't always at odds. Kate was a more dynamic presence, and she wasn't such a raving bitch.

I will always regret what they did with EJ and the coerced sex. I loved the connection between EJ and Sami -- the outsiders united against the world. At this stage, before years of fights and betrayals and ugliness, I could still believe that they could make it work.

The teen/young adult group was stronger than I remember, especially Stephanie. (I still remember Original!RaceCarDriver!Stephanie's introduction -- that was ludicrous beyond words.) In particular, I thought the scenes of Steve finding out that Stephanie had been raped were very well-done, along with the scene juxtaposing Chelsea confessing to Nick with Stephanie confessing to Max. I liked Nick so much, and I thought the actor was very strong, and hated what they eventually did to him.

In this particular episode, the Brady gang plus Chloe and Philip (why?) are on the plane coming back from scattering Colleen's ashes and things are not looking good.

John, sounding remarkably relaxed: {The plane is} ... just flying along at a contstant altitude, unable to go up or down, left or right, and losing more and more cabin pressure by the minute. We have no idea why this happened, how this happened, or how to fix any of it. But still, I'm optimistic.

Philip, incredulously: How can you be optimistic after the things you just told us?

John, smiling: Maybe that's the way I was programmed.

[LeftPhalange]

Did Jack have a relationship with Steve and Adrienne when he raped Kayla? How did the two of them get past what he did, especially Steve?

[Apprentice79]

Steve went crazy when he found out about Jack raping Kayla. He threw him off a roof. Jack was evil at the time and had no remorse for what he did. In fact, Kayla pressed charges on Jack. It was a dark time. Adrienne and Steve turned their backs him. Even his mother Jo reviled him. Jack was an unrepentant asshole. He and his adopted father Harper were a formidable pair causing problems for Steve and Kayla after the rape...

Edited February 23, 2016 by Apprentice79

[Happytobehere]

Steve went crazy when he found out about Jack raping Kayla. He threw him off a roof. Jack was evil at the time and had no remorse for what he did. In fact, Kayla pressed charges on Jack. It was a dark time. Adrienne and Steve turned their backs him. Even his mother Jo reviled him. Jack was an unrepentant asshole. He and his adopted father Harper were a formidable pair causing problems for Steve and Kayla after the rape...

Don't forget that Steve initially was against Kayla pressing charges against Jack because his sick baby brother was more important than Kayla's well being. Even Jo thought Jack should pay before Steve did. Adrienne didn't turn her back in Jack because she did not know who he was. That came out during the Kayla was deaf storyline. It was also during this storyline that Jack began to soften and it continued after the Harper as the killer reveal.

[teacake]

I never thought the Jack/Adrienne angle really played out to potential.  Adrienne had been raped by her father the previous year, and then shot him.  I thought she would have had much deeper issues with a newfound brother who was the rapist of her good friend.

 

 

 

especially Steve?

 

As Happytobehere said, it took a while for Steve to fully reject Jack.  He knew Jack was his long-lost brother, even though Jack didn't.  He threw him off the roof, but then he felt guilty and gave him a kidney... which Jack began emotionally rejecting (LOL), which led Steve to pressure Kayla to tell Jack that she forgave him.  There was a breaking point later where he had to choose, and he chose Kayla.  Jack continued to antagonize them both for another year, and Steve didn't really have divided loyalties by that point.  But part of him did always long for reconciliation with Jack, and that evolved toward the end of SN's first run on the show.  I didn't buy the extent of it entirely, but it was sort of clever that they had him mending fences with Kayla first, while she and Steve were estranged.

Edited February 23, 2016 by lska

[Apprentice79]

At one point, Jo rejected Jack and wanted nothing to do with him..It really hurt Jack because he had bonded with her before finding out about his true parentage..There was a party for Jo's 50th birthday and he was not invited to the party and Jack was hurt by that..To get back his family, he invited his father's twin brother Earl to the party and pandemonium ensued..Adrienne was horrified to see her "father" back from the dead, Jo and Steve were also affected by his presence..Apparently, Earl and Duke did not keep in touch at all and he had no idea that his Brother Duke had been a monster that terrorized his own family....Both Steve and Jack were were named after their Uncle Earl...Stephen Earl Johnson and William Earl Johnson a.k.a Jack Harper Devereaux...I forgot what happened to Earl Johnson....Plus, Jack knowing Earl was the reason that  he was able to imagine his biological Duke, when he was being haunted by his fathers Duke and Harper..Jack never knew Duke, he was just a baby when Jo gave him and Steve up at the orphanage..Jack was just an evil bastard that is why his redemption was so damn awesome..I will never understand why the show has always hated that character.....

[Happytobehere]

In another example of whacky naming trend in the Johnson Family, Duke's middle name was Earl and Earl's middle name was Duke.

[Lisa418722]

I don't think Jo was ever really upset with Jack except at the 50th Birthday because she knew Jack brought Earl because he thought he would hurt Steve and didn't realize what it would do to Jo and Adrienne (since he had no idea who Earl really was and what Duke looked like).  After the rape, but before Steve and Kayla were married (and before finding out how evil Harper really was), she always seemed to make excuses for Jack as to why he acted the way he did. I always wondered if Duke had raped her and that's why she seemed to gloss over it.   Steve went back and forth between being open to having a relationship with Jack and hating him for how Jack treated Steve and Kayla.  Kayla didn't want anything to do with Jack understandably. I remember one time Jo invited Steve, Kayla and Jack to dinner one night and when Kayla found out Jack was going to be there, she worked late instead of going.  When Jack found out that Kayla wasn't going to be there, he decided not to attend and Steve went to his office and told him he needed to be there for his mother.  It wasn't until Kayla was pregnant with Stephanie that she became friendlier with Jack (I can't say friends, but definitely things changed between them). Jack made a comment during that time that what was the last three years for if Steve and Kayla weren't going to be together (or something like that) and the fact that baby was going to be his niece or nephew.  By the time Steve "died" Jack and Kayla and Steve were working on their relationship.  Then after the death, Jack did apologize to Kayla for the rape; the first time he admitted to her what he did and how it affected the relationship between the three of them. 

Jack and Adrienne never really had much of a relationship.   But he did realize how much he messed things up by inviting Earl to the birthday dinner. Then after Jack killed Harper, Adrienne was the one person who told him she knew what he was going through.  What a family - two of the siblings killed their father.  

I miss my Johnson family dynamic. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Lisa418722

[DisneyBoy]

I just found the clips of EJ kidnapping and raping Sami and I'm reminded once again of how disgusting I found their marriage to be later on. How on earth did viewers get behind them as a couple? Are we really that desensitized to rape now that even when we see it play out on screen and live that moment with the characters, we're perfectly happy with seeing them later act as though they've always mutually enjoyed one anothers company?

I can only assume that Sami shot EJ in the head after this rape played out, right? Or did she have to marry him afterwards? I never really got the chronology of their relationship from their later conversations...

Edited February 26, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[SanDiegoInExile]

I just found the clips of EJ kidnapping and raping Sami and I'm reminded once again of how disgusting I found their marriage to be later on. How on earth did viewers get behind them as a couple? Are we really that desensitized to rape now that even when we see it play out on screen and live that moment with the characters, we're perfectly happy with seeing them later act as though they've always mutually enjoyed one anothers company?

 

They got over Bill raping Laura in the 1970s.

They got over Luke raping Laura in the 1980s, and becoming the most mega super couple of all time.

Arguably, the viewers became more sophisticated by the 2000s.  Then again, NCIS is the highest rated show on TV, Fuller House is on its way to being the Biggest Show Ever on Netflix, and a fading reality star is on his way to the Oval Office.

 

Also, FWIW, the Samanther-Elvis coupling went through at least a dozen "re-imaginings" over it's nearly decade run, thanks to writer changes, network interference, and actor power plays. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by SanDiegoInExile

[QuelleC]

I hated the Luke and Laura thing mostly because how much it was pushed in our faces in the media and I didn't like the actors either.  God help anyone who had the stupid headband veil.  I'm a little tired of essays about long dead characters on long dead soaps, too.  Samanther and Eej got forced together because assholes wanted to destroy her relationship with Lucas, who she was trying to save, big time.  Immediately. After about a week after the broken bed story and mophead Will was so happy.  Then they spent almost two years making her bounce around between them and Rafe.  Like someone just said, Rafe doesn't pair well with anyone except maybe Hope and they had that chance over a year ago.

[DisneyBoy]

Question - when did this take place? In which year?

It's EJ finding John alive in Stefano's basement...

Edited February 29, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[LeftPhalange]

To be fair to Marlena, she had a stronger bond with Carrie than Sami. Given that She was taken away from Sami and Eric when they were toddlers. The twins had a stronger bond with John, Diana and Isabella..I remember when Marlena came back from the dead, they had a hard time bonding with her...It is why I hated Sami when she was so nasty to John. John was more of a father to her than Roman..I also remember Roman resenting John for having such a strong bond with his children...I will always be team Carrie over Sami..Sami was too evil for my taste hurting her own family like that...Sami became likable during Lumi and even then, I still looked at her sideways...It was James E. Reilly that made Sami so evil.. I hated the Sami show, when she was bouncing from Rafe, Lucas and EJ..Sami as a heroine was laughable, given all the stunts that she has pulled...She worked better an underdog and an anti-heroine...I never had a problem with Will treating her like crap...She deserved it and more..She did the same thing to Marlena, calling her a whore and cheapening her love for John...

 

Marlena is a crap mother in general. Sami is the only one who she regularly calls out. Belle and Carrie are out here repeatedly cheating on their spouses and neglecting their children so they can go off to Vegas with some man and she doesn't say anything. I still remember her encouraging Carrie to get with Rafe while he was still married to Sami. She doesn't even really try to hide the fact that she favors her other kids (biological and step) over Sami. Eric might be an exception. He was raped, humiliated, assaulted by random townsfolk, forced to stop being a priest, and then his girlfriend was murdered and yet his psychiatrist mother has offered him no counseling. Then there's the fact that she basically emotionally manipulated him into giving up his chance at getting justice so John could get that antidote. If her precious Belle or Carrie were in the same position I bet she would be acting totally different. It seems Belle has inherited her poor mothering skills and I bet Carrie did as well. 

[JBC344]

I think when it comes to Carrie in reference to John and Marlena.  She has built up a huge amount of "good will" so to speak.  She has never given John, Marlena, and Roman a day of trouble as a kid. She was also old enough to understand the complexities of what was going on with John not being her biological father and how the affair happened.  Also Carrie has never messed with John and Marlena's marriage.  In my mind there is no question as to why at least John "loves/treats/views" Carrie in a different light. 

 

Versus Sami who was a child delinquent as a teenager.  Now for me there is a case of "chicken or egg" syndrome, in regards to Sami being a delinquent because she wasn't always treated well or was she not always treated well because she was a delinquent? She has done some really horrible things to John, Marlena, and Carrie.  Hell she was in a one sided feud with Carrie for ten years, actively scheming against her while Carrie was still trying to be a good sister to her. 

 

I've said this before that there may be a case to Sami not being treated as well as Carrie or Belle (honestly with the SORASING it is hard to compare their childhoods) but IMO it is never to the extent that Sami believes.  She has used that excuse over the years to do some really horrible things.  I don't think that Roman/John/Marlena should "treat" any of their children different but I completely understand why they like Carrie more than Sami if that makes sense.

 

With all that said, I personally think that Sami is a better character than Carrie or Belle.  She has been much more flushed out, entertaining, and nuanced over the years.  In the Sami vs Carrie war I am always team Carrie, but can recognize that Sami has always been the better written character. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by JBC344

[Apprentice79]

I think when it comes to Carrie in reference to John and Marlena.  She has built up a huge amount of "good will" so to speak.  She has never given John, Marlena, and Roman a day of trouble as a kid. She was also old enough to understand the complexities of what was going on with John not being her biological father and how the affair happened.  Also Carrie has never messed with John and Marlena's marriage.  In my mind there is no question as to why at least John "loves/treats/views" Carrie in a different light. 

 

Versus Sami who was a child delinquent as a teenager.  Now for me there is a case of "chicken or egg" syndrome, in regards to Sami being a delinquent because she wasn't always treated well or was she not always treated well because she was a delinquent? She has done some really horrible things to John, Marlena, and Carrie.  Hell she was in a one sided feud with Carrie for ten years, actively scheming against her while Carrie was still trying to be a good sister to her. 

 

I've said this before that there may be a case to Sami not being treated as well as Carrie or Belle (honestly with the SORASING it is hard to compare their childhoods) but IMO it is never to the extent that Sami believes.  She has used that excuse over the years to do some really horrible things.  I don't think that Roman/John/Marlena should "treat" any of their children different but I completely understand why they like Carrie more than Sami if that makes sense.

 

With all that said, I personally think that Sami is a better character than Carrie or Belle.  She has been much more flushed out, entertaining, and nuanced over the years.  In the Sami vs Carrie war I am always team Carrie, but can recognize that Sami has always been the better written character. 

I have always liked the John/Carrie relationship..I was a kid watching that relationship. So, I have always enjoyed Carrie. She was the rock of the Brady family, when Marlena was presumed dead and had to help John as Roman take care of the twins. 

 

I do agree that Sami was written better than Carrie because the writers are unable to make a good girl, interesting and complex. They write them as one note, boring and sanctimonious. That is how Carrie was written by incompetent writers.. Jennifer, Marlena, Melissa, Hope, Carly, Caroline, Kim and Kayla were all good girls, but they were complex and flawed..Soaps these days rely on the villains like Sami to drive story, when it should be the heroes and heroines of the show.. 

 

I feel that the character of Carrie was shafted in lieu of Sami because Sami is more complex...I think James E. Reilly did that because he relied more on gimmicks than character development..Carrie was more developed as a kid than as an adult....Carrie should have been the Marlena of her group..I loved her complex relationship with her stepfather Tony and how Stefano would use his love for Carrie to keep him under his thumb..I feel that the show never explored her relationship with her mother Anna who was a vixen like Sami.. Anna and Marlena never liked each other, but, they put that aside for Carrie's sake..Carrie has a place on the show and I feel more an affinity to her than Sami....

[JBC344]

I agree.  They really relied on Carrie as the "good girl" for her character development.  Whenever she did veer from that it was never handled right.  Her affairs and on/off relationship with Austin should of harkened back to her childhood and watching John/Marlena/Roman/Anna/Tony go through their stuff and how she may have been repeating their mistakes.

 

They definitely dropped the ball on developing Carrie.  If you watched during the later years you would never know she was a member of the Dimera family.  Her relationship with Tony was hardly ever referenced once she was an adult.  The show never really explored the duality of Sami/Marlena/Carrie/Anna.  I always thought it was interesting that Sami was always much more like Anna, with Carrie taking after Marlena.  The show could of easily explored that dynamic when Anna was back on the show and had her form a bond with Sami, before they brought Carrie back. It would of been an interesting way to add complexity to their relationship than to just have Sami and Carrie fighting again. 

[Apprentice79]

I agree.  They really relied on Carrie as the "good girl" for her character development.  Whenever she did veer from that it was never handled right.  Her affairs and on/off relationship with Austin should of harkened back to her childhood and watching John/Marlena/Roman/Anna/Tony go through their stuff and how she may have been repeating their mistakes.

 

They definitely dropped the ball on developing Carrie.  If you watched during the later years you would never know she was a member of the Dimera family.  Her relationship with Tony was hardly ever referenced once she was an adult.  The show never really explored the duality of Sami/Marlena/Carrie/Anna.  I always thought it was interesting that Sami was always much more like Anna, with Carrie taking after Marlena.  The show could of easily explored that dynamic when Anna was back on the show and had her form a bond with Sami, before they brought Carrie back. It would of been an interesting way to add complexity to their relationship than to just have Sami and Carrie fighting again. 

I love your post a thousand times! I always wanted that dynamic explored with Sami/Marlena/Carrie/Anna. I also think that the show limited Carrie with her relationship with Austin..The show likes to marry all of their couples..I wanted Carrie to find the love of her life..Austin was not it for me....Austin/Carrie was like Jennifer/Frankie, while those couples were cute, but, they were bland..Look at how Jennifer became dynamic after her coupling with Jack..I wanted that for Carrie as well.. Even Sami got boxed in as the bad girl..The writers refused to let her grow up and mature..Lumi was the best thing to have happened to Sami. They should have kept them together in the long run. Ejami diminished the character of Sami, what a horrible coupling! but I digress...

 

I always felt that the show ignored Marlena's own complicated relationship with her twin sister Samantha in regards to Sami. Samantha always did awful things to Marlena that goes back to their childhood. Marlena was claustrophobic because Samantha used to lock her in the closets for hours on end..Their mother never believed that Samantha would do things to Marlena..So, she was left on her own, to defend herself against a psychotic sister..I always felt that Marlena identified more so with Carrie because of that; trying to be a good sister to a sister that despises you for no reason..I wished that the show had brought that to the fray with the Marlena/Carrie/Sami dynamic...Plus, it would have given more credence to Sami's complaints about Marlena, if Sami believed that her mom did not love her because she reminded her too much of her troubled twin sister Samantha..

Edited April 3, 2016 by Apprentice79

[Apprentice79]

Cancelled..

Edited April 3, 2016 by Apprentice79

[BlackMamba]

Marlena is a crap mother in general. Sami is the only one who she regularly calls out. Belle and Carrie are out here repeatedly cheating on their spouses and neglecting their children so they can go off to Vegas with some man and she doesn't say anything. I still remember her encouraging Carrie to get with Rafe while he was still married to Sami. She doesn't even really try to hide the fact that she favors her other kids (biological and step) over Sami. Eric might be an exception. He was raped, humiliated, assaulted by random townsfolk, forced to stop being a priest, and then his girlfriend was murdered and yet his psychiatrist mother has offered him no counseling. Then there's the fact that she basically emotionally manipulated him into giving up his chance at getting justice so John could get that antidote. If her precious Belle or Carrie were in the same position I bet she would be acting totally different. It seems Belle has inherited her poor mothering skills and I bet Carrie did as well.

I like Marlena but preach. I don't give a shit how close she is with Carrie, that is her stepchild; Sami, Eric and Belle are her blood children. I get so sick of seeing Marlena hold Carrie up to the sky like she's Rafiki and Carrie is Samba when she comes back to town then all her other children are second fiddle!

[Apprentice79]

I like Marlena but preach. I don't give a shit how close she is with Carrie, that is her stepchild; Sami, Eric and Belle are her blood children. I get so sick of seeing Marlena hold Carrie up to the sky like she's Rafiki and Carrie is Samba when she comes back to town then all her other children are second fiddle!

Carrie is not just a stepchild..She had a hand in raising her before her disappearance and Carrie kept her family together..

[JBC344]

Carrie is not just a stepchild..She had a hand in raising her before her disappearance and Carrie kept her family together..

Exactly there is a reason why John and Marlena consider Carrie their daughter, they helped raise her.  John was actually her most dedicated, consistent parent during her childhood, and like others have mentioned she helped John raise Sami and Eric those eight years Marlena was missing.  It's not like Carrie was a grown woman when Roman and Marlena got together.  Regardless of how those relationships relate to Sami I have always appreciated that the adults never drew a line in the sand with any of the children.  As much trouble as Sami caused John over the years he never turned his back on her.  And I appreciate that Belle was raised to consider Carrie her sister as well.  Hell even Roman has always had a soft spot for Belle considering her conception.  To me, when your in a real family people don't draw those lines of separation.