The Clarks vs Camp Dinner Bell: Comparing FTWD and TWD

[HalcyonDays]

Here is your thread to discuss and compare Fear the Walking Dead and the already established tv-verse of The Walking Dead. Here be Spoilers! If you haven't watched the Walking Dead, back out slowly! Any and all reference to events of the Walking Dead, the differences and similarities with FTWD, and any discussion on the actions, motivations and behaviours of the various characters all belong here.

[Nashville]

As a correlative to CDB, my current nomination for Clarks & Co. is ASS = After School Special.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Nashville

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

As a correlative to CDB, my current nomination for Clarks & Co. is ASS = After School Special.

 

Also, as a sort of correlative to CDB, where as they all seem to care a lot, about everything;  Madison Clark wears a personal perfume, one La Odeur de Nonchalance.  She'd ask your opinion of its scent, but she just can't find a single F to give about it or anything else.

[editorgrrl]

The thread title suggests we're meant to compare the characters rather than the shows. And I had no idea who "The Clarks" are. Perhaps something like "FWD vs. The Mothership: Compare & Contrast" or "East Coast ZA vs. West"?

Speaking of which, is it FWD, FTWD, or FtWD?

[tv echo]

I think the premise of FTWD puts it behind TWD from the get-go, at least for me. 

 

Stories about a bunch of strangers who are forced to work together in order to survive have a lot of potential for interest and intrigue and storytelling.  These strangers can be from widely different backgrounds, with varying personalities and belief systems.  They'll have conflicting loyalties and maybe secret agendas.  We'll learn more about each of them, just like they'll learn more about each other, as the series progresses. Eventually the group will pare down to a psuedo-'family' unit, rather than a large bunch of strangers, and this 'created family' will bond together and care for each other. Even if there are mini-family units within the group (like the Grimes), they aren't the only group members. So if a member of the mini-family unit dies (Lori) and the parent falls apart (Rick), the rest of the group is there to support the grievers and pick up the slack in protecting the group. That's TWD.

 

However, on FTWD, the main characters are all already basically part of the same family, albeit a combined family of two parents and their kids.  They already know each other. They already care for each other.  Despite their dysfunction and conflicts, they're going to stick together and have loyalty to each other.  So it's going to be them versus the world.  This makes it even more imperative that the audience likes this family unit and wants to root for them. Also if one family member bites the dust, realistically this should devastate the entire family, making them all easier walker bait. Though with this family, the surviving family members will probably just shrug and keep going.

 

Bottom line, FTWD can become boring and tedious much quicker and more easily than TWD.

[JackONeill]

I think the premise of FTWD puts it behind TWD from the get-go, at least for me. 

 

Stories about a bunch of strangers who are forced to work together in order to survive have a lot of potential for interest and intrigue and storytelling.  These strangers can be from widely different backgrounds, with varying personalities and belief systems.  They'll have conflicting loyalties and maybe secret agendas.  We'll learn more about each of them, just like they'll learn more about each other, as the series progresses. Eventually the group will pare down to a psuedo-'family' unit, rather than a large bunch of strangers, and this 'created family' will bond together and care for each other. Even if there are mini-family units within the group (like the Grimes), they aren't the only group members. So if a member of the mini-family unit dies (Lori) and the parent falls apart (Rick), the rest of the group is there to support the grievers and pick up the slack in protecting the group. That's TWD.

 

However, on FTWD, the main characters are all already basically part of the same family, albeit a combined family of two parents and their kids.  They already know each other. They already care for each other.  Despite their dysfunction and conflicts, they're going to stick together and have loyalty to each other.  So it's going to be them versus the world.  This makes it even more imperative that the audience likes this family unit and wants to root for them. Also if one family member bites the dust, realistically this should devastate the entire family, making them all easier walker bait. Though with this family, the surviving family members will probably just shrug and keep going.

 

Bottom line, FTWD can become boring and tedious much quicker and more easily than TWD.

 

Yeah, I think this will be a problem. WIth CDB, we had several people, some related, but many not. They came from varying backgrounds and beliefs. Here we have just a somewhat normally fractured family (okay, the drug addicted kid might be someone non-mainstream -- except for Merle.) With CDB the audience had several choices of people to identify with. Here, all I see is one big blob. I see no stand-outs, no one who can really take the lead. I see a . . . unit, just not in a good way. This family is like the Borg. (and as boring as the Borg.)

Edited August 27, 2015 by JackONeill

[Nashville]

We didn't meet every member of CDB in TWD's pilot, either. :)

TWD had something which was both a major advantage and a major constraint at the same time; a predefined story line. Advantage because it virtually guaranteed a certain amount of initial market share from fans of the graphic novel; constraint because any significant deviations from that story line risked alienation of that same group.

FTWD has a similar - but not identical - advantage/constraint dynamic, with an additional kicker:

• Advantage: also guaranteed a certain amount of initial market share - from fans of TWD.
• Disadvantage: similar story line constraint, but wider latitude. The FTWD writers can "what-if" anything they want, so long as the story line and its associated timelines eventually dovetail seamlessly with the TWD story/timelines.
• Kicker: it's a prequel - and like all sequel/prequels, the same initial core audience cited in #1 want something New!, something Fresh!, something Exciting! - all while staying EXACTLY THE SAME as its predecessor. ;)

My personal take is - we already have CDB, so we don't need an identical twin to CDB repackaged under a different name. So I'm willing to allow some latitude and see where they can take this - but they're going to portray LA as same-as-Atlanta-but-with-junked-cars-instead-of-trees, I for one will get bored pretty darn quick.

P. S.: I do agree the inter-character chemistry needs some work - but I also see glimmers of hope. When Madison and Travis first arrive at the hospital and find the cops interrogating Nick, for example:

Madison: Is my son under arrest?

Cop: No, ma'am....

Madison (cutting him off): Good. Then get out. Thank you. Leave.

Cop: We could charge him...

Madison (cutting him off again): Well, charge him when he's healed. For now, go away.

Cop (over his shoulder, to Travis): She do ALL the talking?

Madison (loud and MAD now): GET THE Ffff... GET OUT!!!

Travis (to Cop): I'm not as eloquent.

That one line of Travis' spoke VOLUMES more to me about the nature of his and Maddie's relationship than any amount of kissy-face over the plumbing - and it was funnier than hell, too. :>

[Ailianna]

However, on FTWD, the main characters are all already basically part of the same family, albeit a combined family of two parents and their kids.  They already know each other. They already care for each other.  Despite their dysfunction and conflicts, they're going to stick together and have loyalty to each other.  So it's going to be them versus the world.

I don't get that they are all already a family though, and I think when step-bro (Chris?) shows up, that will be more apparent.  I got the feeling that Travis just moved in with them, and they are still learning to live together.  And the kids are definitely not all on the same page.

 

So they will have to learn each other too, but I think they writers *think* they are getting to have it both ways--developing relationships and also a strong "us v. them" idea.  I'm not sure they can have it both ways.

[HalcyonDays]

Also, as a sort of correlative to CDB, where as they all seem to care a lot, about everything;  Madison Clark wears a personal perfume, one La Odeur de Nonchalance.  She'd ask your opinion of its scent, but she just can't find a single F to give about it or anything else.

Madison (loud and MAD now): GET THE Ffff... GET OUT!!!

Travis (to Cop): I'm not as eloquent

.

Oh I like this. I changed Madison's thread title to Eloquent Nonchalance (I hated the one I put in) for now, because it's much better!

[mandolin]

I found it interesting that they knew in 1 episode that you come back no matter how you die, whereas it took CDB until the end of season 2 to be sure. Rick's snoozing away in the hospital, and in LA, people already know that detail.

Edited August 29, 2015 by mandolin

[walnutqueen]

People in general don't know, TPTB know.  Some people have surmised this from first hand experience in FTWD, where hospital personnel et al seem to be in the know for now, whereas in Rick's world, all those people are already dead and Jenner is the sole repository of such info in their small Georgian world.

 

In both worlds, things go bad very quickly, and information is spotty at best.

Edited August 29, 2015 by walnutqueen

[nodorothyparker]

So Travis's big plan is to head for the desert with both his old family and his new one, complete with the not his kid detoxxing addict. That surely won't ever turn Rick-Lori-Shane levels of awkward.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So Travis's big plan is to head for the desert with both his old family and his new one, complete with the not his kid detoxxing addict. That surely won't ever turn Rick-Lori-Shane levels of awkward.

 

You think that's awkward, wait until everyone figures out that Alicia & Nick prefer a family tree that is kept so pruned that it stops branching off completely.

[tv echo]

Madison is making me appreciate even Lori.  Lori was annoying but she was interesting.  Maybe it's the difference in actresses...

 

TWD - I hope none of the main cast members dies.

FTWD - I hope some of the main cast members dies.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Madison is making me appreciate even Lori.  Lori was annoying but she was interesting.  Maybe it's the difference in actresses...

 

TWD - I hope none of the main cast members dies.

FTWD - I hope some of the main cast members dies.

 

I think the main difference between the two was that Lori (Sarah Wayne Callies) could emote somewhat through her facial expressions.  Whereas, Madison (Kim Dickens) wears a blank mask that almost perpetually stays the same.  The viewer is left with no other recourse but to imagine what her thought process(es) and feelings/emotions are.

Edited August 31, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[nodorothyparker]

You think that's awkward, wait until everyone figures out that Alicia & Nick prefer a family tree that is kept so pruned that it stops branching off completely.

 

Or as my husband and I were speculating last night based on what we've seen:  Good news, Alicia.  Three teenage boys have survived the end of the world with us.  One is your brother, one is your stepbrother, and one is the school's geeky resident conspiracy theorist with acne.  Have fun.

Edited August 31, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[LVmom]

I'm getting a Shane/Lori/Rick vibe from Madison/Travis/Liza. The biggest obstacle to rooting for Travis and Madison to save their combined families is that you aren't sure where Travis's loyalties lie. His slip up at the barbershop calling Liza and Chris his family started me thinking that way. In a Shane/Lori/Rick situation, someone has to die, at least the way previous writing has gone.

 

Personally, I don't see a woman like Madison getting stabby over losing a guy, so then the two families are immediately separate and it just doesn't gel. They may as well just be strangers locked together in a room somewhere.

Edited August 31, 2015 by LVmom

[editorgrrl]

The biggest obstacle to rooting for Travis and Madison to save their combined families is that you aren't sure where Travis's loyalties lie. His slip-up at the barbershop calling Liza and Chris his family started me thinking that way.

Chris is Travis's family—and therefore Liza will be part of Travis's life for the rest of Chris's. Travis disrespecting the Salazars' privacy bothered me much more than his use of the word "family."

But I do not trust TPTB to handle a love triangle any better the second time around. The scenery is better here, but the writing is not.

Edited August 31, 2015 by editorgrrl

[LVmom]

I agree, editorgrrl, that Chris is his family. I do initially think that's why the ex-wife ended up with Travis and that's why she falls under his protection now. I can understand that. My problem is that the ex so far has come across as more connected with Travis than Madison. I get the history, there was once love there, etc. But I'm not sure if it's acting choices, dialogue, or direction, but there's been a weird disconnect from the get go with the main couple. Audiences seem to like the ex more than Madison, so I could see a Daryl Dixon situation developing. Madison could very well become a Shane.

 

Not that Madison is anything like Shane. It's just a weird vibe I'm getting, hard to describe.

[RedheadZombie]

This is part of a late post of mine in the pilot thread.

 

Who's the "Rick" in this show?  By that, I mean the person whom all storylines revolve around, is viewed as the hero, and is sure to survive until possibly the last episode.  I would say Nick, but having his name rhyme with Rick's seems too obvious.  This leads me to believe that Nick is Daryl - totally fucked up until the ZA, but thriving in the chaos.  I think Cal was the Shane (betrayal, yet killed by his intended victim).  Alicia is Andrea (irritating and shrill).  Travis is the closest thing to Rick, which leaves Madison as Lori (although I think she'll be more pro-active).

 

Of course, none of these new characters have to be versions of the original characters, but from experience, sequels/prequels tend to lack uniqueness.  When there's a hit, everyone wants a piece of it.  So I looked for the similarities.

 

I'm sticking with Nick/Daryl, and I really think that Travis is going to be Rick.  He's knocking himself out to help a kid who can't even stand him.  With all the comments that Madison is over toxed with little facial expression, I'm switching her to the Andrea character.  Madison is a smart and independent woman, but she's already alienating the audience.  I don't know yet about Alicia, but she's following the early days of TWD, when all the female characters were irritating.

 

There's a couple of female characters yet to be seen.  Hopefully there will be at least one Carole 2.0, Maggie, or Michonne.  I'll even take a Tara or Rosita.

[snowwhyte]

If the Salazars are going to be part of the main cast I can see the daughter as a Maggie type. She seemed sensible and kind from what little we saw of her. If we can avoid something like her falling for Nick and her father disapproving because he's a junkie or a similar storyline she could be a non irritating character.

[CletusMusashi]

Speaking of which, is it FWD, FTWD, or FtWD?

The title is impossible to discuss with people, which I think is going to kill this show. "Hey, did you see "Fear of The Walking Dead" last night?" Even that question makes people, including me, zone out. Have "The Walking Dead" in there before the real title, sure. But still give it a real title! Idiots. Nobody ever said "I'm running home to watch Star Trek: Enterprise." And it wasn't just because that show sucked. It was because people who watched it called it "Enterprise." Just like they called its sibling shows "Voyager," "Deep Space Nine," and "Next Generation." But "Fear" isn't a real title. Plus... it actually probably already is a title for some series anyway. regardless of how lame and halfassed I personally think it is.

Actually, there's no reason they would even be calling these things Walkers. I mean, most people In Georgia don't. Why not call it "The Walking Fear?" Or "The Occasionally Threatening, Until They Bite You One Time and Then Go Away Dead?"

I lean toward calling it "F the Dead" in verbal conversations, and "FTD" when online.

Edited September 2, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[nodorothyparker]

My husband said pretty much all of the above as well.  He HATES the name of the show and the two-second title card.  To him it smacks of utter laziness and belies any half-assed pretense the showrunners have made that this is any sort of separate entity from the mother show and not a blatant ratings grab at that show's audience until it starts back up again.  It may be fine right now with only two episodes in because let's face it, right now the only thing separating them and the only real draw of the spinoff is the new location and spot on the shared timeline, but that doesn't bode well for it once the novelty wears off if it can't forge its own identity within this universe.

[CletusMusashi]

"The Walking Dead: California Nightmare," or "The Walking Dead: Tobias Rising" could be shortened into decent titles. "The Walking Dead: Dude, Where's My Civilization?" Or, if Madison turns out to be the big star, "The Walking Dead: Follow That Heroine," would also be acceptable substitutes.

I'd like to say that the original cared what it was called, and that it actually put thought into coming up with a name that could quickly become a household phrase. But the truth is, it didn't have to, because the name came with the comic. They  may not have ever even realized how much labeling matters. Plus, they know that if we stuck with the main show through pudding cans and singing ghosts and the incontinent incompetence of FPP that we might just be desperate enough to sit through anything.

But TWD has a trick to keep us watching. Each half season, no matter how good or bad overall, tends to have very strong book-ends. So at worst it will start with a bang, then wander around in a circle for a while, and then go out with another bang. Sneak in at least one other very good episode in between there ("The Orchard, I'm thinking of you,) and that, plus the enjoyment we get out of mocking the stuff we don't like is enough to keep the overall watching experience fun.

FTD isn't fun yet. It hasn't started off with a bang, so there just isn't as much goodwill motivating me to endure the mediocre stretches. 

Edited September 2, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[grumpypanda]

Unfortunately I think Madison (is there really anyone named Madison in their forties) is meant to be the Rick character. So far everyone is connected to her somehow and I don't see her dying anytime soon.

I can definitely see Nick as being the Darrell type character. He's the social misfit that finds his place in a fallen society.

Anyway, my biggest disappointment with FTWD so far has more to do with the location. I'm so tired of shows being set in Los Angeles. I really like the Georgia location because not many shows are set in the South (I'm not counting redneck reality tv.) I would have been happier with just about any other city other than L.A. or NY. The possibilities were endless, Las Vegas, Portland, Phoenix, Detroit, Anchorage, hell even Boise or Omaha would be more interesting.

[CletusMusashi]

Actually , being in the midwest sounds terrifying, because it's so much harder to hide and evade hordes, but I simply don't think the writers have the chops for it.

[CletusMusashi]

I really want to argue against Madison being the Rick, but unfortunately the longer I think about it the more I think you're right.

Nick as Daryl? Maybe. But I'm thinking Bob. Clunky addiction plot at the expense of actual personality.

Travis is Dale. And that's a good thing.

Chris is maybe early Glenn, the smart. friendly youth who can survive just fine by avoiding a brawl.

Alicia is Beth. Young, cute, impetuous, nurturing, and bad luck for boyfriends in the ZA.

Whatsername... Travis' ex... is a bit of Lori and a bit of Shane. (Does that mean she's Judith?)

Tobias, hopefully, is Carol. An underdog who eventually becomes Underdog.

Cal was Gareth. A bad guy played briefly but awesomely by a great actor.

The Dog referred in next episode's title is probably a reference to the Jack London story highlighted in the pilot. But if not, I hope it's the same dog Daryl and Beth saw at the funeral home. Because that means we're in for a story arc of Tobias not only figuring out the cure, but also getting his Beastmaster on, and sending a dog, a guinea pig, and, oh, what the hell, let's say a mud snake disguised as an eastern diamondback rattler, eastward toward Washington DC.

 

[RustbeltWriter]

I'm worried this show will just turn into TWD, West Coast. We're seeing society fall from the Clark family perspective but we're not seeing anything really new. Things seem to be kicking along at a good pace, after all Madison has seen three walkers now and two of them were close by; at her job and across the street from her home. We're not seeing anything from the persepctive of the authorities and that is a huge vein of gold just waiting to be mined. If this season ends with the downfall of civilization that occurred while Rick was in a coma, then we've got nothing left but watching these people do the same things the original show has been doing for 5 years.

[nodorothyparker]

That's my worry too.  As someone who watches the original recipe more to watch what happens after the end of civilization than because I really care anything about zombies, I am enjoying the bits of the initial breakdown we're getting because again, it's something we've been left on our own to speculate about for years.  But if the end of the first six episode run dovetails with Rick waking up to the ruined world, what then?  What's going to set this apart other than maybe fewer trees to wander in circles around?  I'm not a desert person.  How many cacti are there out there and how many times can you meander past the same one?

 

Quite a few people I know are already disappointed that the show is blowing off the chance to finally answer the origin questions the mothership didn't, apparently because Kirkman either couldn't or wouldn't even try to come up with anything.  Add in that so far we're getting no indication that we may finally definitely see what the authorities knew and when or what decisions they may have made that led to the complete destruction of the world,  and it feels even more like a empty sort of time killer.

[kj4ever]

The day they say what/how the outbreak happened/is happening is the day the series dives down to like 25th place in the ratings.  Shark will be jumped.

[tv echo]

Carl Grimes as a teen is looking pretty good about now (as compared to the teens on FTWD).

Edited September 4, 2015 by tv echo

[Yolapukka]

 

The day they say what/how the outbreak happened/is happening is the day the series dives down to like 25th place in the ratings.  Shark will be jumped.

 

 

I don't know if it would be that dramatic, but I do think it could be damaging. For the most part, any zombie movie, book, or video game I've encountered deals with the origins in a few lines, whether they frame it as big revelation or a few throw-away comments. It might be important, but it's not that big a part of the story. I feel like we know enough, that there was a serious "flu"pandemic and exposure to the virus whether or not people died or even were ill as a consequence had the result of the infected dead rising and that the undead are dangerous. Perhaps it was a spontaneous variant of the flu, which isn't particularly interesting or it's a consequence of human tinkering or sheep-fucking or cosmic rays which is a story other than one of survivors dealing with a new reality. Having someone who was in on went wrong would be clunky, having survivors encounter evidence what went wrong is most likely a dead end story-wise, it's not going to reverse the disaster and if it could, it has the potential to blow the basic premise. I think FTWD is better off keeping the template of the mothership and avoiding writing that deals with those in the know. Well, with the exception of Jenner.  In fact in some ways, they have done one better than the original by showing those who will survive picking up on the key pieces of knowledge they will need, rather than being told by the likes of Jenner. Loved that scene when the blanket blew back with the result of Liza taking note of the shot to the head that had brought down the homeless guy. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by yuggapukka

[LVmom]

I wonder if we'll get a contrast between the teenagers who were already nearly adults in the beginning of world zombification and teenagers like Carl that grew up in it. You might see more rebellion in a teenager who was spoiled growing up, or maybe you will just have small melt downs like Carl had post prison. I hope that isn't all the series becomes. I like the all ages perspective better. Although I think we all know that eventually the story will focus only on Carl,as he is obviously meant to be Rick's eventual successor-and this series is more open ended,

Edited September 6, 2015 by LVmom

[walnutqueen]

Please. dear Dog, no more Coral and his stupid hat!

 

Give me an already teen - junkie shrug wearing or not, as long as he doesn't have Carl's stunned cow eyes.

Edited September 6, 2015 by walnutqueen

[Nashville]

Ok, so is Daniel the barber FTWD's incarnation of Daryl, or Carol?

Because either way he's married to Herschel, which is just - ew.

[nodorothyparker]

I'm calling Travis as a Dale/Herschel mashup right now.  All he needs is a garden shed.  Although he does also have a certain Lori-like quality of packing in his current and former lovers to be circling each other over him when they should be figuring out how they're not going to get themselves or their respective kids killed.

 

Daniel seems competent out of the gate with a possibly troubled past that will give him the know how to keep himself and others alive, so that's a Daryl.  But he appears to have had a bath recently and he'll hopefully have enough sense not to go all Morgan when his wife's foot inevitably goes bad.  Nick is the one channeling Daryl's scraggly haired didn't bathe before the apocalypse so why start now aesthetic.

[kj4ever]

Ok, so is Daniel the barber FTWD's incarnation of Daryl, or Carol?

Because either way he's married to Herschel, which is just - ew.

I'm thinking Daniel = Shane.

 

Even counting any issues I had with TWD I still was invested in the characters by the 3rd episode.  This show, not so much.  I HATE Madison.  She has a double whammy going - written badly and the actress is just awful.  Travis, eh, who cares?  Lives, dies - I can't work up enough craps to give to care either way, and that goes with most of the other characters in the show.

 

I'm kind of hoping they realize how incredibly bad this group is and clean house and start with a new group next season.  That's the beauty of the new show, they aren't tied to source material.

[RustbeltWriter]

We've already seen characters in TWD check the radio for information more often than those in FTWD. Seriously, school is cancelled, electricity is spotty and there are riots but no one turns on the TV for a news update?

[Bryce Lynch]

I'm thinking Daniel = Shane.

Even counting any issues I had with TWD I still was invested in the characters by the 3rd episode. This show, not so much. I HATE Madison. She has a double whammy going - written badly and the actress is just awful. Travis, eh, who cares? Lives, dies - I can't work up enough craps to give to care either way, and that goes with most of the other characters in the show.

I'm kind of hoping they realize how incredibly bad this group is and clean house and start with a new group next season. That's the beauty of the new show, they aren't tied to source material.

That is one of the great things about the TWD franchise. If characters, even leading ones, aren't working you can have them devoured by walkers.

[NurseGiGi]

If they had a show based in Nebraska I could see it only lasting one season, even if they showed the fall of civilization.  All you would have to do is come out on your lawn everyday and clear the half frozen walkers.  Next day, wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Yes, BryceLynch, that would be pretty amusing if in the season finale they killed everyone.  Well, not Tobias.  He could be the last man standing.

[kj4ever]

We all know how Rick is now, and how he was at the beginning.  This didn't all gradually unfold to him like everyone else.  He escaped the hospital and then was told by Morgan what happened.  Remember his first zombie?  Before he did it he asked Morgan "Are you sure he's dead?"

 

So if he would have been conscious during all of this do you think he would have been like Travis?

[CletusMusashi]

Well, Rick never had a broad, sweeping, "no guns" policy. Neither, actually, did Dale. 

Lori actually came closer to that, despite her taste in men.

[HighMaintenance]

I think since Rick was in law enforcement, he would have wised up pretty fast had he been awake instead of in a coma.  Yes, he didn't get it at first, but it didn't take long for him to understand once he was filled in by Morgan.

As far as the gun thing.  I recall there being all kinds of angsy moments with Lori not wanting Carl to have a gun.  Lori didn't want to shoot a gun.  Dale was totally against Andrea having a gun.  Season 1 and half of season 2 were more like "we're the men we get the guns, you wimmen and chillun's hunker down, wash clothes, cook us vittels, and worry about us until we get back from a run".

 

Dale even went as far as to steal all the guns and try to hide them in the forest because Shane had gotten out of control - and essentially left CDB unarmed against the horde.

 

Travis' comment about not liking guns... well, that's may work well for him and his kid in a normal pre-apocalypse world. However, he's seen mass rioting, police shooting shambling "people" who are violent, a "sick" neighbor who is dining on German Shepherd Pie in his living room and he still thinks you shouldn't arm yourself??  That's nonsensical.

 

 

[mandolin]

We've already seen characters in TWD check the radio for information more often than those in FTWD. Seriously, school is cancelled, electricity is spotty and there are riots but no one turns on the TV for a news update?

But Travis still expects trash pickup. I couldn't get over that. Some things are so NOT normal, and yet, they are acting like it's another day in the park.

 

Dale even went as far as to steal all the guns and try to hide them in the forest because Shane had gotten out of control - and essentially left CDB unarmed against the horde.

 

Travis' comment about not liking guns... well, that's may work well for him and his kid in a normal pre-apocalypse world. However, he's seen mass rioting, police shooting shambling "people" who are violent, a "sick" neighbor who is dining on German Shepherd Pie in his living room and he still thinks you shouldn't arm yourself??  That's nonsensical.

 Shane did get the bag from Dale and took the guns to Hershel's house right before the barn massacre, so they had all the guns.

 

And yes, Travis is completely nonsensical. Most of these characters seem to be. I'd be hypervigilant, and they...just aren't. 

[truelovekiss]

 Season 1 and half of season 2 were more like "we're the men we get the guns, you wimmen and chillun's hunker down, wash clothes, cook us vittels, and worry about us until we get back from a run".

 

 

Travis' comment about not liking guns... well, that's may work well for him and his kid in a normal pre-apocalypse world. However, he's seen mass rioting, police shooting shambling "people" who are violent, a "sick" neighbor who is dining on German Shepherd Pie in his living room and he still thinks you shouldn't arm yourself??  That's nonsensical.

 

That summary of seasons 1 and 2 was so spot on, I giggled like a fool. It's amazing how apocalyptic situations just set feminism back like that.

 

Travis is being such a dumbass about guns.  It's not like Daniel was like, "once we get to the desert, I'll teach you to shoot, kiddo I just met a few hours ago." He was just explaining to him the mechanics of it, and how it worked. It usually doesn't hurt to have some knowledge of things.

[Bongo Fury]

I rewatched 'Days Gone By' last night, and it is magnificent, probably the best pilot episode of any series. As critical as I am about the writing for TWD series, this is excellent. The emotion shown by the characters (Rick and Morgan) is palpable, and after only one episode we have a clear understanding for these characters and we are fully invested in them and their situation. 

 

It starts with the opening scene of Rick and Shane eating lunch and discussing women, a totally believable discussion and something we can all relate to. That short bit introduces us to two important characters and starts to give us a glimpse of who they are. Then Rick waking up in the hospital, and the feelings of abandonment and confusion and horror and revulsion. Progressing to the loading dock and the sea of dead bodies. His encounter with the bicycle girl is just horror and WTF! So he flees to familiar ground, his home, and searching for those he loves; Lori and Carl. Utter despair when they are not there. And then an incredible sequence, Rick on his knees, near a total breakdown, touching the floor and saying 'this is real'. And then slapping himself and saying 'wake up, wake up'. If you're not sympathetic to that character and totally invested in him, then I am sorry, but you are just not human. At that point, what are we, 20 maybe 30 minutes into the show and I was hooked. Simply fabulous writing and execution.

 

And then there's Morgan, when he first meets Rick he is pretty rough on him, but given the situation it is completely understandable. The world has changed and Morgan is just being careful. He then softens as he realizes that Rich isn't a threat and we see Morgan's human side. He is a strong father to Duane ad even with society having collapsed he still insists upon manners, respect and adherence to god with his son. The whole story of his wife and his inability to 'put her down' is utterly heartbreaking, and anyone could relate to him and put themselves into his place. It's great story telling to contrast the love Morgan felt for his wife with the new reality that she is gone and become a monster, but he is unable to forget the past and do what he knows must be done. Again, great story telling and in just a brief time we are given a clear picture of who Morgan is, and we are totally invested in the character. To such a point that many seasons past, and with only a brief revisit to the character who has sunken into utter madness, he is still beloved to the point where he could be teases for an entire season and viewers clung onto every crumb the the writers gave us of him.

 

Now part of it is that Andrew Lincoln and Lenny James are skilled actors who sold the shit out of their characters, but what we got of the characters in Days Gone By was just epic TV.

 

Now contrast that to FEAR. We are 3 episodes in and just what are these characters? Who is Madison? What is Travis all about? Why should I care about Nick? Are they honestly trying to make Alicia THAT unlikable? I'm trying, but I just can't answer these questions, these characters are just THAT bad. Now I'm sure part of it is that no one on FEAR is of the class of Andrew Lincoln or Lenny James, but it's a LOT more than that, the writing has been utterly atrocious on this show in comparison to DGB. Three episodes in and I don't understand any of the characters, I can't relate to any of them, and most importantly, I don't give a shit about any of them. Is it a case that Frank Darabont was THAT great, and Gale Allen Hurd and Scott Gimple are utter hacks? The contrast between DGB and FEAR is night and day, not even close. And if FEAR had come first it wouldn't have completed Season 2 and we'd have never gotten TWD.

[phoenix780]

The day they say what/how the outbreak happened/is happening is the day the series dives down to like 25th place in the ratings.  Shark will be jumped.

Maybe, but I think if the rest of the show were on point they could explain and it wouldn't matter.  Or they could not explain and it wouldn't matter.  

 

So after reading a few comments in the thread from tonight's show about the comparative lack of walkers in the LA area thus far...what if the LA apocalypse actually wasn't as bad as other areas, and they just couldn't communicate that to anyone?  Maybe the military here was effective.  Or, maybe it'll wind up being a horde of heavily-armored walkers in a few episodes.  

 

Have we actually met anyone on the main show who came from this area?  Were there any references to it?  What if the LA hills are not so bad, and that's why they aren't worried about explaining what happened or even really showing it.  

 

(Side note: now I'm wishing they did spin-off series more in the style of "American Horror Story" where each season shows things from a different angle, or in a different place).

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Is it safe to say that the Clarks would actually fit in real well with CDB (CDB at its worst moments, at least)?

 

Evidence to substantiate my claim:

 

- Travis walking around yelling in the church (had it happened that the zombies were there, as they should have been)

- Travis taking Madison to the church, so the zombies will have an extra meal (had it happened the zombies were there, as they should have been)

- Madison & Travis wanting to hug Z!Cal

- Madison flagging down Z!Artie, then letting him get close enough to smell her bad breath

- Nick looking past the drapes to see the dog, then leaves door open after letting dog in

- Madison thinks a good way to avoid detection from a zombie is to try shining a flashlight in its face

- The Clarks leave the back door open so poor Fido got his dinner bell rung

- The Clarks making all kinds of noise in Patrick/Susan's place

- Travis tries to hug Z!Robert even after watching him eat a canine raw

- Not killing Z!Susan because "memories!" and deluded Travis "they're just sick"

- Madison cutting a hole in the best line of deFENCE between them and the zombies, just to 'get some air' and come back without even a gun she saw lying on the street

- Then somehow doesn't encounter any zombies on her little trek, but had no weapons whatsoever for protection (I don't think, anyways) - she 'FPP'd the hell out of that lil adventure

- Alicia makes her arm bleed, when zombies are attracted to the scent of blood (even though she doesn't know that [yet, at least])

Edited September 21, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[JBody]

"The FTWD writers can "what-if" anything they want...."  -Nashville.

 

Yes they CAN and they AREN'T.  This is a blatant cash grab (hello AMC) and they are up to their old tricks again.  Why-T-F are we having this time jump already -- one riot (mostly heard, not seen), a hospital shoot-out (drive by view), lights go off and on, garbage and recycling gets put out, and then *SKIP* to 9 days later when they're in a safe zone patrolled by military and everything and everyone outside the SZ is dead, "cleansed," whatever?  Thanks man.  Thanks for not, AGAIN, showing me what I wanted to see from the beginning, back in 2010 -- the fall of civilization.  This is the same old, same old. Seriously, f&ck you AMC.  I hope Darabont wins every damned penny you owe him.

The webisodes detail this better.  The WEBISODES. 

[mandolin]

Yes, (one of my) big problems is we aren't shown anything. A couple people being shot, some police lights, one riot, and now we're barricaded in our neighborhood. There are only 12 safe zones, and no one bats an eye? What does that mean? If everything outside the safe zone is dead...what happens? Did no one try to flee LA? Where are the traffic jams and panic? For goodness sake, WHY IS NO ONE THROWING ALL THEIR CARDBOARD ON THE GROUND? 

 

I do not give a crap about these characters and find them mostly despicable.