S05.E12: Starvation

[Tara Ariano]

Raylan puts pressure on every criminal in town as a ploy to arrest Daryl Crowe Jr.; Boyd and Duffy enlist an unlikely ally to fight off cartel killers.

[AimingforYoko]

"You know I'll shoot you, Darryl. Like I shot Wade Messer. Me, Dewey Crowe!" Oh Dewey, I'm gonna miss that moron.

[Tara Ariano]

Dewey went out in exactly the right way. Here's my post on the episode!

[soapfaninnc]

"The anus is on you..." I'm going to miss Dewey Crowe. The rest of the Crowes need to get the heck off my screen. None of them are worthy villains for this series. Arlo, Boyd, Mags Bennett, Limehouse, Wynn, Boyd's Dad, Drew Thompson, Quarles - that crazy disarmed whack job, even Nicky Augustine and Sammy Tonin and then you're going to put Darryl Crowe in that list? No, just no. 

Raylan edges Boyd out in the complete jerk sweepstakes by threatening Ava. Yeah, Raylan, Ava. You did more for the other women you humped and dumped who did a lot worse to you than Ava ever did. Boyd, you could have at least attempted to get Ava out of jail by cutting a deal. What I really hate is that by looking out for Boyd you're proving Raylan right. 

[SimoneS]

Justified has not met its high standards this season. I thought last week was a great episode and it was getting back on track, but this episode was not very good. It feels like the writers are desperately trying to make things too convoluted so we don't see how Raylan and Boyd will extricate themselves from this mess.

Raylan was being such an ass that I was glad when Boyd called him out on his involvement in Nicky Augustine's death. Raylan looked so shocked. Had he really forgotten that Boyd went there with him just as the shooting was about to go down? How could Raylan threaten to get Ava hurt? Ava of all people? He should be ready to fight to the death for her. 

I just hope that Boyd gets his share of the drug money so that Ava is out of prison next week because I have had enough of her prison drama. I don't buy for a second that Boyd has turned his back on her. Just last week, he made Jimmy promise to help her. Boyd has his own plan to get her out of prison that does not involve the Marshalls. I felt sorry for Jimmy crying as he betrayed Boyd. I am sure that Boyd will forgive him and find a way to save all of them from Mr. Yun's henchmen.

As for the Crowes, Dewey is the best of the lot which is not saying much. What a tool! I will miss him. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by SimoneS

[NorthstarATL]

"The anus is on you to take care of it." Oh, Dewey. The anus IS on you.

[Endeavour]

I agree this season has been a bit disjointed but I thought that was a really good ep. The only thing that dragged it down for me were the scenes with Ava that Raylan wasn't involved in. I do feel sorry for her but that entire storyline bores me.

Dewey had a bunch of good lines. The whole third person confusion was great.

Looking forward to seeing how this wraps up. Hopefully with a dead Darryl.

[mrsdalgliesh]

I wonder if Jimmy was crying because he was about to get a bullet in the head.  Maybe it was both that and the betrayal.

I agree with everyone that it was not good seeing Raylan stoop so low as to threaten Ava's safety.  That felt off-kilter, as did the "you're too late" scene later.  

Did Elmore die after this season was already written and filmed?  Because it seems like they've lost their way this year.  

One thing this episode did prove: more Rachel and Tim is a very good thing.

[Bama]

I can't get too hot under the collar about Raylan threatening Ava and Kendal when their own loved ones don't seem to give three fucks about them.

I have a feeling that Boyd and Raylan will strike some kind of deal and Raylan will force him to make Ava's freedom part of it.  And make sure Ava knows it was Raylan and not Boyd who got her freed.

Ava shooting another Crowder boy with her deer rifle while he eats sweet potatoes and fried chicken at her dining table seems awfully symmetrical to me.

And YAY YAY YAY at Rachel and Tim not only being in the episode but both having more than one line!

[TigerLynx]

Bye Dewey.  Please let Boyd or Raylan kill Daryl soon.  Actually, let Body torture Daryl first.

[molshoop]

I thought Boyd's file would be at least twice that size.

[Enigma X]

I would not be surprised if Wendy kills Darryl.

And poor aimless Dewey. I hope we have not seen the last of him. At least, I hope he ends up in the same jail as Dickie and we get a few scenes of both of them together.

[Linderhill]

I can't really care too much about Ava and her never ending, tedious prison saga.  Everything just seems to come to a complete halt when the action moves to the prison and sad sack Ava.  I have never been too fond of the character and this clinches it.  I don't have any sympathy for her at all at this point.  She knew what she was getting into with Boyd, she knew what she was doing when she killed Delroy the pimp, she knew what she was doing when she tried to move the body herself, and  she certainly knew what she was doing when she killed her husband (the only time I actually had any sympathy for her).  It seems like the entire storyline stalls when we are forced to go to the prison and try to decipher the boring story there.  Can't we just leave her there?

Poor Dewey and his foolishness.  Somehow I think he'll actually be happier in prison, away from all this and his relatives.

[Etta Place]

I used to like Ava. I haven't enjoyed her prison storyline, partially because she's separated from everyone else and partially because I just don't like the dark, dark direction they've taken both her and Boyd this season. But Raylan, threatening her? Seriously?

"Third person? This guy?" Jesus, Dewey, just when I thought you could not possibly be any dumber (and this after "the anus is on you"). I'm gonna miss him, and I agree I'd love to see him in adjoining cells with Dickie Bennett.

I like Jimmy, and it broke my heart to see him crying with guns to his head. Although earlier, the other guy made me laugh when he said "worst job ever!" after getting shot in the leg. That and Dewey were much-needed comic relief in this episode.

The look on Raylan's face when Boyd mentioned Nicky Augustine was pitch-perfect. I guess Raylan somehow thought he and Boyd had some kind of honor-among-bastards thing that would prevent Boyd from bringing that up even though Raylan was strong-arming everyone?

I guess I understand how everything has gotten so dark this season, but I miss the days of Raylan having occasion to smile besides in bitterness. And to take his shirt off.

[LAFR]

So in the scene in Wynn's trailer when they are talking about American Hustle, what did Tim say the movie needed more of?  It got a little to mumbly for me there, although I really liked that scene. 

This was not a good episode for the henchmen.  With Mike having to clean up Picker (so gross) and getting beat up by Daryl and then Jimmy.  I hope Jimmy survives. If he doesn't Boyd is going to be really short staffed next season. 

[asha]

LAFR- Tim said the movie needed more Jason Statham. Raylan also added, "what doesn't?" or something to that effect. It was wonderful.

Goggins is such a weird-looking dude, and yet he can pull off lines like "I'm gonna do what I do" and "your savior has arrived!" with such swagger, I don't even understand.

This season hasn't been the best, but this episode hit good notes for me, except for Raylan being a db to Ava, who has had "you in danger girl" plastered all over her the last few episodes. It was rubbing salt in a wound to threaten her.

[Tara Ariano]

As I said in my post, I don't believe that Raylan would ACTUALLY be party to any action that would put Ava in real danger, but even making the idle threat is very out of character for him, I think.

[Curious5]

I loved this episode.  My first thought afterwards is that Raylan is back.  Here's where I get that.  He is beginning to see the guys for what they did. 

Remember Ave is not nice!  She is a cold blooded murderer, a whore house owner, a drug dealer along with Boyd.  She also partly responsible for the murder of the old man from the nursing home because she is the one who ordered it through the jail nurse.  "Do whatever she wants." She is vicious in her own right.  She plannned on the murder in the Chapel.

Raylan would not have any authority to get Eva out or moved.  She's under the Feds and only lawyers could try to get her moved with any deals.

Raylan's mistake to have any friendship with Boyd is his weakness.  Boyd deserves a painful death.  I love the character and his manor of speech but a dangerous man. Raylan is angry - mostly with himself.  He was sliding down the hill right into the arms of the criminals.  Now he wants to clean up the whole mess and that might be the move to threaten the Crowes with Kendall being tried as an adult.

I don't see the big deal with using Kendall in the negoiations to get a confession out of Wendy and Daryll.  I believe that tactic is used all the time.  Getting a kid to confess to something to protect a mother is not that unusal.  Crooks know the law better than most civilians.

Just the exchange between Wendy and Raylan at the barn seemed to be the moment that the lightbulb turns on with Raylan that his sympathies were totally screwed up.  He was played and now the light goes on.

The 50 - 50 discussion in the Judge's office could be the use of Boyd's phone.  Why did Raylan insist on keeping the phone  as he went to the Judge?  Did they clone it?  Put a tracking bug in it?  A listening device?  Something happened that they needed the sign off from a judge.  The judge was not needed to charge Kendall as an adult.

As an after thought.  Kendell could easily get off for turning state's evidence and telling JB's murder and Daryll's knowledge of it.

[Ohwell]

Goodbye Dewey, you enjoyable dumbass.  I will miss you and your four kidneys.  I have to admit, shotgun granny had me fooled because, like Dewey, I actually thought she was gonna get him something to eat.  It was funny that it only took her a moment to realize he was a dumbass.  

[halgia]

Good point (Tara/Curious5) about the phone probably being bugged, and that being what the judge signed off on. That makes total sense; I thought it was just Raylan being a dick to Boyd on general principle. And yeah, I didn't know this but according to Wikipedia prosecutors can just decide to charge someone as an adult, so they wouldn't have had to call out the judge on that one.

That said, if Kendal gets convicted as an adult I will be officially MAD AT RAYLAN.

[LAFR]

Raylan's mistake to have any friendship with Boyd is his weakness.  Boyd deserves a painful death.  I love the character and his manor of speech but a dangerous man. Raylan is angry - mostly with himself.  He was sliding down the hill right into the arms of the criminals.  Now he wants to clean up the whole mess and that might be the move to threaten the Crowes with Kendall being tried as an adult.

They dug coal together. 

[VLove]

I felt that Raylan's threat to Ava was idle and inauthentic - he said it because that's what cops say to criminals.  And he is a cop and she is a criminal.  Was it a prick thing to say? Sure, but I doubt he meant it, and I doubt she believed it.  

I'm sorry but I have no empathy for Ava.  She willingly signed on to be the Bonnie to Boyd's Clyde.  She would have had Ellen May killed.  Really, I felt like the bigger prick move was for Boyd not to ask for her release as his bargaining chip - break up or not.  Even if he has something bigger planned, exhaust every option.  Period.

But yes to Rachel, Tim and any mention of Jason Statham - because, truly, what doesn't need more JS?  

[Milaxx]

I think a big part of why Raylon is trying so hard to get Darryl is because somewhere in the back of his mind, getting Darryl will help fix the riff he has created with Art. Perhaps atone is a better word. Of course I believe he wants to do it as a lawman and it's his job, yadda, yadda, but the part of him that sees Art as a father figure needs to get Darryl. That why he is so desperate to have this happen by any means possible. Raylon knows he's gambling with Kendal's life, but he's on a mission and nothing is going to stop him. Was he a douche for talking to Ava like that? Yep, but Raylon is on a "by any means necessary" level now. 

What struck me more was the look on Rachel & Tim's face when Boyd dropped that info about Nicky Augustine. Sure they covered in front of Boyd, but I wonder what they, Rachel in particular will do with that piece of information once this is all over. Even if he lives I don't see Art returning to work. If Rachel one day is no longer interim director, how does that effect how she deals with Raylon?

On the other hand, I hope Dewey gets to hang out with his buddy Dickie. Maybe between the two of them they can keep themselves alive. 

I hope Wendy steps up and does the right thing for Kendal. Next week is gonna be dark, but I think next season is gonna be even darker.

[fauntleroy]

Moving over from TWoP...

There was a weird shift in direction. It started out with Raylan in righteous vengeance, going to bring whoever shot Art to justice. So the search for Daryl is afoot.

So far so good. But what does Ava have to do with it? Why threaten her? Someone above said that Ava was a 'cold-blooded murderer' but I only recall justified killings.

Daryl is the exact opposite of a stealthy criminal mastermind. The DA or somebody mentioned how "slippery" he is, but we've seen little evidence of that, and they end up finding him easily, big deal.

Before they get him Rachel says they can only get Daryl on--possession of stolen property or unpaid taxes or something. DA says that's how they got Al Capone. Well if that's all they had, what's the all-fired rush to get him? Why the "starvation"? They have no evidence he shot Art and again, how does this justify threatening Ava?

Then they do get him, easily enough, sure enough they have squat. His lawyer (who was great in her one scene) made monkeys out of them.

And why is Raylan after Boyd now particularly? Boyd didn't have anything to do with Art's shooting. Meanwhile Raylan and his crack team are heedless of big black SUVs full of Mexican murderers.

Please Jesus, save Jimmy.

[Curious5]

Ava did shoot her husband in cold blood as he ate his dinner.  Murder 1  She shot Delroy in cold blood after luring him to the bar to pick up Ellie May.  Murder 2  She gave the green light to have  Ellie May killed by Colton Rhodes. Remember her nightmares after that?  That would have been murder 3.  Lesson learned by Ava?  Nope.  She attacked and murders Judith in the Chapel. 3 murders and attempted murder.   I  hope the writers keep her in the prison...FOREVER!

I don't think Kendall will be convicted.  At the worst Wendy breaks down and tells the truth before the trial if it even gets that far.

Art won't be back.  He only had about 9 days left before retirement.  He is gone as the chief.  I thought that it was a permanent - she is the new chief.  Art had already named her  as his replacement.

When Raylan said to Ave "You're too late."  I felt  that was the first honest line said as far as true criminal cases.  The proscuter won't need her to turn state's evidence so she has nothing to deal with.  First one to open their mouth wins the deal and Boyd did that.

[Talullah]

I disagree with your first point, Curious5. Ava didn't shoot her husband in cold blood. He may not have been beating her head in at the time she shot him, but he'd done it plenty of times before. He'd beaten her into unconsciousness repeatedly, beaten her so badly she miscarried. I'm more than fine with that boy getting shot.

As for Judith? Ava didn't want to kill her, but Judith attacked first. I don't think Ava's innocent of all crimes, not even close. All the horrible things others have done on this show, though, it seems strange to condemn Ava so strongly. Boyd's done far, far worse. And, good grief, don't condemn us to keeping Ava in prison! You know they'd go back there next season. I just can't handle that slog again. No more prison and no more Crowes, for the love of all that is good drama.  

[Monty]

If the show is going to follow people's adventures in prison, I'd much rather watch Dewey and Dickie than Ava.

[Cosmosgravitation]

 

So far so good. But what does Ava have to do with it? Why threaten her? Someone above said that Ava was a 'cold-blooded murderer' but I only recall justified killings.

Remember that Raylan does think she stabbed that guard.  It's tough to blame him, since he mentioned it and she didn't bother to say she's innocent.  She has also pointed a gun at him multiple times and showed loyalty to Boyd - who clearly is a cold blooded murderer - over both the law and Raylan.  Plus Raylan was bluffing, he wasn't really going to carry through with his threat.  He was simply doing his job and trying to find a way to put Darryl in prison.  He tried being nice and she refused to help, so he went for hard.  It's not surprising he doesn't have much sympathy for her, but even so he said he's still going to try and help at the end.  I won't be surprised if Raylan does get her out of prison somehow.

 

And why is Raylan after Boyd now particularly? Boyd didn't have anything to do with Art's shooting. Meanwhile Raylan and his crack team are heedless of big black SUVs full of Mexican murderers.

The only reason Raylan is going after Boyd now is because we are entering the final season.  If we had multiple seasons left he'd still be letting Boyd slide.  It's not Raylan going after Boyd that is out of character, it's Raylan essentially ignoring Boyd's actions for the past few seasons - and that's because the writers wanted to keep Boyd around.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Cosmosgravitation

[halgia]

Is Ralyan really going after Boyd, though, or just using him to get to target-of-the-moment the Crowes?

Also, depending on how dark-side Raylan is going to get, bringing up a connection to Nicky Augustine's murder in front of Rachel and Tim may be a motive for Raylan to want to discredit Boyd, or worse.

[Latecomer]

I feel like Raylan's fuelled equally by what's happened to Art & what he believes is happening to Kendall, (given he identifies with Kendal & Loretta), & I reckon that talk with Boyd was Ava-flavoured. I hope you're all right about The Hammer giving the OK to something else, because Raylan's not great at anticipating the consequences of his actions.

I know people are iffy about the Crowes as villians, but one of the things I admire about Justified is the way crims of all persuasions are portrayed. You don't have to be Boyd Crowder to rain poop on those around you, & the Crowe family-that-eats-its-own dynamic seems true, even if they're not much fun.

I'm rooting for the henchmen too! I hope you make it, Carl!

 

[GhostofMags]

I didn't think Raylan was being an ass with Ava.  He was hard, sure, but he has no respect for criminals, and Ava is a criminal. It's pretty black and white to him. She is where she is because of the choices she's made and what she's done and she deserves to be there.  That said, I hope she either dies or gets out because I can't take any more of  this idiotic 'Women in Prison' subplot.

Raylan is taking a gamble by having Kendal charged as an adult. Will that be the last straw for Wendy?  Will she turn on Darryl?  Or will she just kill him?  Will Art wake up and I.D. the shooter?  What if it's not Darryl?  What if Kendal was there, and he's the one Art saw?  This whole thing could easily blow up in Raylan's face, and then he will blame himself for whatever happens to Kendal.

This season has had its ups and downs, but the last two episodes have been excellent.

Oh, and add me to the list of people who don't want to see the end of Jimmy.  Come on...he survived getting bit in the face by a snake!! Don't let the Mexicans take him out.

[Eucrid]

As I said in my post, I don't believe that Raylan would ACTUALLY be party to any action that would put Ava in real danger, but even making the idle threat is very out of character for him, I think.

I think its just another step on a slipperly moral slope he's been going down. He's no longer the classic white hat he was at the start.

[soapfaninnc]

 

Remember that Raylan does think she stabbed that guard.  It's tough to blame him, since he mentioned it and she didn't bother to say she's innocent

 

 

 

 

I can't agree. For the last two episodes every single Crowe but Dewey has accused Raylan of killing Danny and not once has anyone said - no, your stupid brother fell on his own knife falling in a hole trying to charge a man with a gun while he had a bag of heroin at his side. Stupid is as stupid does.

I think all three - Ava, Boyd and Raylan - have been headed down a slippery slope the entire series. Raylan hasn't killed anyone - if you don't count the guy that landed him here in the pilot (did he really draw first?) but he knew Delroy beat up Ella Mae and didn't call the local law enforcement about it, and the main line was him conspiring to get Nicky Augustine murdered. I don't blame him for that at all. But nor do I blame Ava for killing Bowman or Delroy. She couldn't kill Ellen Mae last season so there are still some lines she won't cross. Judith attacked her and would have eventually killed her. (I hate this prison storyline with the heat of a thousand suns and so want it to be over already!)

Raylan is just as guilty of collateral damage as the other two. Art was shot because Raylan can't keep his fly zipped and he put Art in a jackpot by confessing about Nicky Augustine to cleanse his own conscience. The case was closed - why not wait and tell Art the truth after Art retired? This and Raylan agitating the Crowes using Allison's job is what started this fire Raylan has to try and extinguish. 

The best thing about this show is that we're talking about three main characters that are varying shades of gray and we see how they justify what they do to themselves. I'm not much for gray areas in criminal behavior IRL but in fiction I find characters like this interesting. 

[Cosmosgravitation]

 

For the last two episodes every single Crowe but Dewey has accused Raylan of killing Danny and not once has anyone said - no, your stupid brother fell on his own knife falling in a hole trying to charge a man with a gun while he had a bag of heroin at his side.

I've been assuming that's because they already know Danny stabbed himself (as family members they would have been told how exactly he died) but blame Raylan for the circumstances that led to it.  It's irrational, but it's a lot easier to blame Raylan instead of Danny or themselves for being criminals.  It's actually a pretty common mentality among the family of criminals that get killed by law enforcement.

It's not the same thing with Raylan and Ava, where all she has to do is say she didn't do it and there's a chance she'd change Raylan's mind.  He's got a decent BS detector.

 

(did he really draw first?)

Yes, he did.  You can go back and watch the scene.  

 

 

Raylan is just as guilty of collateral damage as the other two. Art was shot because Raylan can't keep his fly zipped and he put Art in a jackpot by confessing about Nicky Augustine to cleanse his own conscience. The case was closed - why not wait and tell Art the truth after Art retired? This and Raylan agitating the Crowes using Allison's job is what started this fire Raylan has to try and extinguish.

I'm sick of this false equivalency between Raylan and Boyd/Ava.  Yes, Raylan's actions have unintentionally caused some people to be hurt, but that's not even close to things Boyd has done.  (Although Allison being the target might keep Art from taking Raylan to help protect her - but why the hell didn't he take Rachel or Tim with him? It's not like Raylan is the only deputy that could have provided back up.  Or I'm sure the regular police would have been happy to lend some man power to the marshall's.  It's a plot hole.)  

Boyd has flat out committed the cold blooded murder of multiple innocent people - people that weren't a threat to him.  That's something Raylan has never done and would never do.  Aside from some philosophical musings, Boyd has also expressed no remorse or regret.  He is a psychopath.  Ava is also responsible for the deaths of innocents (just this season she basically ordered the death of that old guy Boyd had strangled in the car when she told Boyd to do whatever the guard wanted - that's murder). She's also supported and helped Boyd who she knew was a killer.    

Unlike Raylan, Boyd and Ava aren't just responsible for collateral damage, but direct damage.  There's no equivalency between Raylan's mistakes and theirs.

I also consider Raylan arranging Nicky's death to be self defense.  The guy had attempted to murder Raylan, Winona, and Raylan's daughter and Raylan knew with certainty he was going to try again.  He had resources Raylan couldn't match.  Raylan took the only path open to him that would ensure they stay safe.  Some states would even agree.

 

The best thing about this show is that we're talking about three main characters that are varying shades of gray and we see how they justify what they do to themselves.

Except they're aren't varying shades of gray.  One is gray (Raylan), one is very dark gray (Ava), and one is black (Boyd).  

Edited April 4, 2014 by Cosmosgravitation

[Latecomer]

Musing on Raylan's morals & how his upbringing influences his behaviour is my current obsession, because my boss says he can see Raylan getting together with Wendy, (in some 'Jerry Maguire'-Kendal related thing). I disagree, because just like Ava, Wendy buys into parts of the hillbilly code that Raylan blatantly rejects.

As for Boyd's lack of morals, did anyone else soften a little after meeting Hayes Workman & his black lungs, or am I the only one losing my mind? What do we think would've happened to Raylan if he hadn't left Harlan when he did?

[greenbean]

Well I like Darryl and hope he survives. I find him entertaining, and the family dynamic interesting. I didn't like Danny, I'm glad he's dead. But I want Darryl, Wendy and Kendall to come away with their heroin money and finally retire.

I'm still not convinced that Darryl shot Art. The show seems to be pointing to more, and Raylan is going off the rails and heading for a long overdue crash.

Ava's prison story is mostly a bore, but it has its moments.

The only thing I like less than Ava's prison story is Dewey's story. He's so dumb and annoying, I just can't care about what happens to him.

[whiporee]

RE: Raylan and Nicky Augustine

Don't forget two things about them: 1) Raylan gave him the chance to give himself up. That went into Nicky's whole "cop threat" speech, which was awesome. But that also led to "If I say I'm gonna kill your family, I'm gonna kill your family."

I don't think it's nearly as ambiguous as many -- including Raylan himself -- think. He gave Nicky a chance to turn himself in, he didn't take it. He threatened Raylan and his family. And All Raylan can be accused of is not stopping the shooting, not pulling a trigger.  

Edited April 6, 2014 by whiporee

[halgia]

All Raylan can be accused of is not stopping the shooting

I think that's taking it a little too far. Didn't Raylan call Sammy to come kill Nicky? Sure, he provided an out for him. But I doubt that Raylan ever seriously thought he'd take that out. It's the same thing as he's been criticized for a million times before (I think Boyd had a speech about this near the end of last season): sure, he doesn't just go out and kill people, but he does put himself in situations where it's okay for him to kill people. This was just the most extreme example of that.

[Milaxx]

Agreed, it was implied that Raylon lead Sammy to Nicky Augustine. If Nicky hadn't given the "I'll kill your family" speech, how was Raylon  getting him out of there? There was no cops on backup. Upon reviewing  that scene it looks as if the only other person Raylon advised as to Nicky's whereabouts was Sammy.

[soapfaninnc]

 

Didn't Raylan call Sammy to come kill Nicky? Sure, he provided an out for him. But I doubt that Raylan ever seriously thought he'd take that out. It's the same thing as he's been criticized for a million times before (I think Boyd had a speech about this near the end of last season): sure, he doesn't just go out and kill people, but he does put himself in situations where it's okay for him to kill people. This was just the most extreme example of that.

It was in the truck on the way to the airstrip - which Raylan threatened Boyd to get him to do. Boyd asked him what Raylan would do if Nicky didn't draw first and Raylan said, 'They always draw first.' That led to the discussion between them of how each saw the other 'justifying' the things they do. 

I understand others might not see it the way I do and that's fine but I can't convince myself Raylan is a good guy. I see him as incredibly selfish and single minded. Is he better than most of the characters on the show? Yes, but he crosses lines too easily when it suits him.