Baking on Both Sides of the Atlantic: Food and Culture

[Rickster]

At least on the East Coast in towns with a decent sized Hispanic presence, it's pretty easy to find frozen passionfruit juice that you can turn into your own curd. Not sure how it compares to fresh, since the fresh passionfruits, when you can get them, are pretty poor.

[Silverleaf]

A Chelsea bun is a currant bun, sort of like a cinnamon swirl except with currants instead of the cinnamon and sweet dough instead of the pastry. Similar to a lardy cake.

[sara217]

Follow-up question: what is a lardy cake?

[QuelleC]

Assuming a cinnamon swirl is a cinnamon roll, cinnamon rolls are made with sweet yeast dough.  I'm looking up recipes this week to halve, since I don't want an entire "traybake" if I used that term correctly.  I just want a round "tin" of seven.

 

And about the jug, we used to get a show on PBS with Clodagh Mckenna and she drove me nuts with all the "pop 250 mils into the jug" recipes.  Everything was mils in a jug or a tin.  And I normally like that sort of thing.  She was very fast too, I liked that.

[meep.meep]

A Chelsea bun is a currant bun, sort of like a cinnamon swirl except with currants instead of the cinnamon and sweet dough instead of the pastry. Similar to a lardy cake.

Thanks!  It's as clear as mud.  Currant bun?  Lardy cake?

 

I think I need to do some field work!

[Athena]

Follow-up question: what is a lardy cake?

 

A lardy cake is a type of enriched dough tea cake. It's made with yeast, sugar, currants, spices, and yes, rendered lard. It's often served at tea or during holidays such as Christmas. It's a bit similar to a Christmas fruit cake with its mix of dried fruit and spices, but it's richer from the lard. Here's Paul's recipe for it.

[editorgrrl]

What are Chelsea buns?

Sticky cinnamon rolls with currants. Here's an Americanized recipe:

Sharing the same name as a famed London neighborhood, these buns are glazed with sugary icing while they're still warm to make them especially sweet. They are like a cinnamon bun but have a less gooey, more sticky property. Traditionally these rolls are made with currants, but if you don't have any of those, raisins work perfectly well.

I'm looking up recipes this week to halve, since I don't want an entire "traybake" if I used that term correctly. I just want a round "tin" of seven.

They're not a traybake (which are cut), just buns. (Maybe if you didn't separate them, you could call them a "tear and share"?) The Serious Eats recipe in the link makes 8 buns in an 8 x 11" baking dish.

Edited October 28, 2015 by editorgrrl

[DHDancer]

YES!  That's it.  Don't know why "Wild Bird" got stuck in my head.  It really is great-all of their products are.  They used to sell it at the farmer's market in my neighborhood when I lived in Chicago.  Awesome tip on the passionfruit with lemon meringue-do you add passion fruit to the curd when you're making it, or at some other step?

Add the passionfruit pulp at the end of making the curd, before adding it to the pie.  You can choose whether or not to sieve it to remove the seeds first but I don't bother :)

[DHDancer]

Traditional lardy cake is made with simple bread dough, rolled out, spread with lard, currants, and sugar, mixed spice, then folded and rolled like puff pastry a couple of times to layer fruit and lard.  I've always baked it as a square or rectangle. It's meant to be simple "cheap" economical fare, not haute cuisine.  It might horrify a few of you but it's delicious!

 

Chelsea buns, as described above, are the same as sticky buns but with fruit included and usually mixed spice vs cinnamon (Americans are a bit heavy handed with cinnamon for some reason).  They are generally not iced (frosted) in my experience.  While beyond delicious made with an enriched brioche style dough,again, traditionally they were made with plain bread dough.

[Writing Wrongs]

What is the stick I always see stuck in people's ice cream cones on British shows?

[editorgrrl]

What is the stick I always see stuck in people's ice cream cones on British shows?

It's a Cadbury Flake chocolate bar: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/aug/24/99-flake-ice-cream

According to Wikipedia, "Since 1922 in Britain, Australia, and Ireland ice cream vendors serve "99 Flakes" which are vanilla soft serve ice cream in a wafer cone in which a half size Flake bar is inserted in the top."

[Writing Wrongs]

Thanks.

[larapu2000]

You guys think we're heavy handed with cinnamon?  I wonder if that's due to our proximity to Mexico.  I feel like a lot of Mexican desserts (and some savory dishes) utilize cinnamon.  Also, you're totally wrong because cinnamon is awesome.  Even if it's only awesome for elephant ear topping, it's still awesome.

Edited October 29, 2015 by larapu2000

[DHDancer]

The cinnamon comment was mine: compared to my experiences elsewhere in the world, yes I'd say as a gross generalization that Americans use a heavy hand with cinnamon.  Also they don't use the "real" cinnamon but cassia which is hot and I don't think very subtle in flavor.  I like cinnamon, but used in moderation.

[iggysaurus]

Then what are those cakes they sell in US grocery stores that are slightly lighter versions of pound cakes but drowned in glaze/icing?  I thought those were called cream (or crème?) cakes.

 

Twinkies

 

Not sure if that was meant to be serious, but Twinkies aren't drowned in glaze or icing! They're plain on the outside and filled with some marshmallowy cream on the inside.

On another topic: French toast - do Brits eat this?  I remember mentioning it to a UK friend online once, and she said she knew it as "egg bread" or something. Not sure if it's common there or not.

Edited October 30, 2015 by iggysaurus

[DHDancer]

French toast is not a British thing.  And breakfast is a seriously savoury affair.

[Rinaldo]

The baked beans ensure that.

[DHDancer]

Sausage, egg and chips (fries) AND beans if you really want to go over the top.  And don't forget the brown sauce, lol.  Seriously, I turned up my nose at "fried bread" for many years, then was so hungry one day that I tried it, and that was it: smitten for life.....(only the good stuff of course: good bread, sliced thinly and fried in the bacon fat in the pan).  I cannot adapt to the mostly sweet, plus eggs and some kind of meat all on the same plate American breakfast..(I've been here 30 years) and I've yet to convince any breakfast place to correctly serve the eggs (over easy) actually ON top of the unbuttered, uncut toast....

Edited October 30, 2015 by DHDancer

[Rinaldo]

I'm 100% US (Midwestern by upbringing) and I'm totally with you on nothing sweet to derail the breakfast (OK, except for a little juice*). (Scrambled) eggs, sausage or bacon, and fried potatoes, with toast nearby, is heaven to me.

 

(*In fact, in UK hotels I've been offered the option of "fruit salad" [which turns out to be what I call fruit cocktail] as a breakfast starter, before the savory stuff is brought.)

[ceebee]

Sausage, egg and chips (fries) AND beans if you really want to go over the top.  And don't forget the brown sauce, lol.  Seriously, I turned up my nose at "fried bread" for many years, then was so hungry one day that I tried it, and that was it: smitten for life.....(only the good stuff of course: good bread, sliced thinly and fried in the bacon fat in the pan).  I cannot adapt to the mostly sweet, plus eggs and some kind of meat all on the same plate American breakfast..(I've been here 30 years) and I've yet to convince any breakfast place to correctly serve the eggs (over easy) actually ON top of the unbuttered, uncut toast....

Can you buy brown sauce in the US, DHDancer? (Has to be HP, of course..).

If I eat cooked breakfast, then it has to be savory. Veggie's version would be fried eggs (runny yolks), beans, fried mushrooms, grilled tomatoes and a potato element (chips, sautéed, hash browns or bubble and squeak). I agree about the deliciousness of good fried bread, but don't eat it these days, even though bacon fat still smells as yummy as when I gave all that stuff up 30 years ago. It's always bacon that gets us veggies!

Is French Toast sweet then? Like pain perdu, perhaps? I think of that as dessert. I eat 'eggy bread' as a snack when there's nothing in the house or I don't want to cook, but it's just bread soaked in eggs and fried in butter with some salt and pepper. Lots of friends give it to their little ones, too, but not necessarily as breakfast food.

[ABay]

French toast recipes vary, but I use eggs, milk, vanilla and cinnamon (by all means, fellow Americans, use a heavy hand), soak some thick bread, and cook it on a griddle or in a frying pan. Serve with butter and maple syrup.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

French toast itself isn't sweet since it's just bread soaked in egg but it's often garnished with powdered sugar, maple syrup, or strawberries.

[Rinaldo]

Is French Toast sweet then? Like pain perdu, perhaps? I think of that as dessert. 

French toast is precisely pain perdu -- the American name for the same thing. Judging by my own experience growing up, which seems to be matched by others I've talked to and lived with over the years, it's not an everyday item. In my sort of family (growing up int he 1950s and 60s), breakfast on weekdays is simple -- cereal, maybe plus toast. Some might have eggs but that was never an everyday breakfast item for us. Saturday we would live it up (and take more time) with eggs, and Sunday was the day of indulgence at breakfast: pancakes, waffles, or French toast. I still think of those three as a trio belonging to the same category, and they often appear that way on diner or café menus.

French toast itself isn't sweet since it's just bread soaked in egg but it's often garnished with powdered sugar, maple syrup, or strawberries.

True about the toppings (I would say "almost always"), but many recipes will add vanilla and cinnamon/sugar/both to the egg mixture, which takes it to the sweet side right away.

[larapu2000]

The cinnamon comment was mine: compared to my experiences elsewhere in the world, yes I'd say as a gross generalization that Americans use a heavy hand with cinnamon.  Also they don't use the "real" cinnamon but cassia which is hot and I don't think very subtle in flavor.  I like cinnamon, but used in moderation.

 

Actually, there's not really a discernable difference between the two unless you're grinding it fresh, because ground cinnamon (either kind) gets a bitter taste to it over time in the bottle.  However, there is still not a lot of taste differential even if you grind it fresh.  Now, if you're eating it by the plain spoonful, you might have a different opinion and really be able to suss out the differences.  But as an ingredient?  Not at all.  It's mostly marketing and perception.  Just like Certified Angus Beef.

 

It's okay if you don't like a lot of cinnamon.  Have you ever had churros?  

 

 

I'm also a savory breakfast person.  Every once in a great while, if I'm at a place renowned for their pancakes or waffles, I'll rock a sweet breakfast (and bacon/sausage in maple syrup is a fat kid's dream, amirite), but I love eggs.  It's the one food I had to eat constantly as a kid that I still dig on and love even more after all these years (we lived on a farm with chickens).

Edited October 30, 2015 by larapu2000

[Quilt Fairy]

Sausage, egg and chips (fries) AND beans if you really want to go over the top.  And don't forget the brown sauce, lol.  Seriously, I turned up my nose at "fried bread" for many years, then was so hungry one day that I tried it, and that was it: smitten for life.....(only the good stuff of course: good bread, sliced thinly and fried in the bacon fat in the pan).  I cannot adapt to the mostly sweet, plus eggs and some kind of meat all on the same plate American breakfast..(I've been here 30 years) and I've yet to convince any breakfast place to correctly serve the eggs (over easy) actually ON top of the unbuttered, uncut toast....

Don't the Brits also add fried tomatoes and mushrooms? Or is that more likely to be added at teatime rather than breakfast?

[Athena]

Don't the Brits also add fried tomatoes and mushrooms? Or is that more likely to be added at teatime rather than breakfast?

 

Depends on where you go, but yes, fried tomatoes and mushrooms are all also part of the full English breakfast. Black pudding/ Blood sausage can also be seen in some cases.

[ceebee]

Don't the Brits also add fried tomatoes and mushrooms? Or is that more likely to be added at teatime rather than breakfast?

Yes, you would see those on most "Full English Breakfast" menus. (Or Scottish or Irish..). Black pudding is also fairly common.

Fill your arteries with this...

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01674/SNF16BREK---620_1674278a.jpg

(No potatoes - sacrilege!)

Edited October 30, 2015 by ceebee

[iggysaurus]

French toast is precisely pain perdu -- the American name for the same thing. Judging by my own experience growing up, which seems to be matched by others I've talked to and lived with over the years, it's not an everyday item. In my sort of family (growing up int he 1950s and 60s), breakfast on weekdays is simple -- cereal, maybe plus toast. Some might have eggs but that was never an everyday breakfast item for us. Saturday we would live it up (and take more time) with eggs, and Sunday was the day of indulgence at breakfast: pancakes, waffles, or French toast. I still think of those three as a trio belonging to the same category, and they often appear that way on diner or café menus.

 

I grew up in the 80s (in US), and French toast, while not an "everyday" breakfast, was common. In fact, it was my favorite! I liked it with butter and honey (instead of syrup). We also would sometimes put plain yogurt or sour cream on it, along with fruit.  These days, it has become a staple on any restaurant's breakfast menu, both in more "down home" diner type places, and fancy brunch places.  I once had French toast at the Chateau Marmont in Hollywood, which is a legendary hotel and restaurant favored by celebs. Their version had blueberries and whipped cream, I think.

 

All that being said, I'm often not in the mood for "sweet" breakfast either. When I go out for brunch or breakfast, those items always sound good in theory but they aren't what I'm craving, which is usually something more savory. Sometimes when my brother and I go to brunch, we go all out and we get something like a waffle or pancake or french toast as an "appetizer" before our savory main dishes. ;)

[shandy]

I have often wondered why mushrooms for breakfast are common in Europe but not in the US - I'd eat them anytime. It's strange that migrant food cultures often survive so well, but morning mushrooms got ditched. I'm not a fan of the  canned button mushrooms the English seem to love,  but wonderful porcini piled high on a breakfast bruschetta, or sliced thickly in a French omelette, - what's not to like. 

[meep.meep]

I like the mushrooms in a British breakfast, it's the baked beans and stewed tomatoes that seem wrong.  Mushrooms are very popular in US breakfast omelettes.  Every omelette I ever had in Europe was not for breakfast and other than the Brits, I never saw anyone else eating mushrooms for breakfast (Germany, Holland, Italy, Belgium, etc.)

 

So, I guess we all now know what Opera Cakes are!

[3 is enough]

I am not a fan of sausage in any shape or form, but I do love tomatoes with my bacon (or ham) and eggs.  I just drop ripe tomato wedges in the frying pan and cook them for a couple of minutes until the outside is caramelized and the inside is warmed through.  Yummy!

[Betelnut]

I think one big difference between the "sides of the Atlantic", at least when watching The Great British Bake Off, is that Americans would use peanuts/peanut butter much more often than I've seen on the show.  Actually, I'm not sure that I have seen it used.  A peanut butter buttercream layer would be very delicious on an Opera Cake, for example, and I think a US person would think of that right away. 

[DHDancer]

I think one big difference between the "sides of the Atlantic", at least when watching The Great British Bake Off, is that Americans would use peanuts/peanut butter much more often than I've seen on the show.  Actually, I'm not sure that I have seen it used.  A peanut butter buttercream layer would be very delicious on an Opera Cake, for example, and I think a US person would think of that right away. 

 

Paul Hollywood HATES peanut butter so the contestants know not to use it if they are smart.   Also, peanut butter is not in wide use in the UK (or Europe)

[Betelnut]

Paul Hollywood HATES peanut butter so the contestants know not to use it if they are smart.   Also, peanut butter is not in wide use in the UK (or Europe)

I didn't know that about Paul--that's too bad and, frankly, odd (to me). He doesn't like peanuts or "peanut butter"? "Peanut butter" may not be upscale but the flavor of peanuts is yummy.

 

I DO know that peanut butter isn't that common in Europe--thus my comment in this thread which is about the differences in US/Europe/UK baking.  If this competition were taking place in the US, you would see a lot more peanuts and peanut butter variations being used. We (US) use it a lot more--a lot more--than they (everyone else) do.  And it is delicious!

[DHDancer]

 We (US) use it a lot more--a lot more--than they (everyone else) do.  And it is delicious!

 

Different strokes for different folks.  I very occasionally have a peanut butter sandwich or a scraping on toast when I want some quick protein but the idea of a PB&J appalls me.  And peanut butter and chocolate, ugh!   But then I was raised on vegemite (yep, I can see all your ewww faces!)

[GaT]

I think one big difference between the "sides of the Atlantic", at least when watching The Great British Bake Off, is that Americans would use peanuts/peanut butter much more often than I've seen on the show. 

I remember hearing someone talk about hoe they had some friends from the UK visiting & they were making lunch for all the kids & they made PB&J sandwiches & the UK kids HATED it. American kids grow up on PB&J, but I think it's practically unheard of in the UK.

 

I think we would also see a lot more bacon used if this was a US show.

[Silverleaf]

Oh we've heard of PB&J but I don't think it's ever eaten. Personally I don't like peanut butter unless it is an ingredient in a sauce (same goes for marmite).

[Quilt Fairy]

Yes, you would see those on most "Full English Breakfast" menus. (Or Scottish or Irish..). Black pudding is also fairly common.

Fill your arteries with this...

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01674/SNF16BREK---620_1674278a.jpg

(No potatoes - sacrilege!)

Oh. My. God.

 

 

Paul Hollywood HATES peanut butter so the contestants know not to use it if they are smart.   Also, peanut butter is not in wide use in the UK (or Europe)

I think it was the combination of peanut butter and bacon that Paul didn't like on the American show.

 

I just rewatched the traybake episode. Can someone tell me what a 'jammy dodger' is?

[DHDancer]

"jammy dodger" = biscuit (aka cookie) with jam (aka jelly) in it.

 

BTW, I think the main reason people are reacting to the Charlotte Royal as "brain" (which it looks nothing like IMO) is because someone on the show mentioned it first (can't remember if it was Paul, Mary, Sue, or Mel) so they planted the idea :)

[sum]

Oh. My. God.

 

 

I think it was the combination of peanut butter and bacon that Paul didn't like on the American show.

Most likely. IIRC, in S6 contestants used peanut butter a few times and Paul didn't have any problem with it. On the other hand Mary explicitly said she doesn't like peanuts.

I just rewatched the traybake episode. Can someone tell me what a 'jammy dodger' is?

Until someone gives more detailed answers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammie_Dodgers

[Rickster]

I remember hearing someone talk about hoe they had some friends from the UK visiting & they were making lunch for all the kids & they made PB&J sandwiches & the UK kids HATED it. American kids grow up on PB&J, but I think it's practically unheard of in the UK.

 

I think we would also see a lot more bacon used if this was a US show.

 

Agree, but you have to realize that bacon in the UK is usually not the same as bacon here, and would not go nearly as well in desserts. It's more like thin sliced fatty ham.

 

I'm another American who hates peanut butter, although I do like peanuts.

[Rinaldo]

I'm an American who likes peanut butter, but not with jelly (in fact I avoid all jelly- or jam-like substances). My sandwich has the PB all by itself, preferably on toast (open-faced). Combination with bacon or banana slices is OK too, but I'd just as soon (in fact preferably) eat the other thing by itself right afterward. So we're not monolithic on this topic.

[ABay]

Just another American weighing in: I don't care for peanuts or peanut butter much, except for peanut butter cookies. I didn't like peanut butter as a child, either; it makes your breath smell like damp peanuts. Yuk. Jam, on the other hand, is glorious on fresh baked bread, toast, and many kinds of cookies.

[meep.meep]

I think one big difference between the "sides of the Atlantic", at least when watching The Great British Bake Off, is that Americans would use peanuts/peanut butter much more often than I've seen on the show.  Actually, I'm not sure that I have seen it used.  A peanut butter buttercream layer would be very delicious on an Opera Cake, for example, and I think a US person would think of that right away. 

 

I remember Martha using peanut butter in the last season that PBS aired.  And there weren't negative comments.

 

But on the US season, Paul would get very critical about peanut butter and also about cream cheese.

[Rinaldo]

On one of the UK seasons, where the challenge was "American pies" (which Paul was very snotty about -- he literally advised the bakers that the way to improve them was to make them more British), one of the bakers said that her American cousin had told her how popular peanut butter pie is here, so she made one. Paul pronounced the result disgusting. (To be fair, it looked like she didn't know how to use it -- it seemed to have been used full strength rather than diluted into a mousse-like filling.)

[Badger]

How about the fluffernutter?  Peanut butter and marshmallow creme or fluff.

 

Dogs love peanut butter too.  At least our dogs all did.

[lambertman]

Can you buy brown sauce in the US, DHDancer? (Has to be HP, of course..).

 

Since I don't believe this was answered: Yep. It's a bit pricy but becoming more and more common in stores with 'international' aisles.

[ceebee]

Since I don't believe this was answered: Yep. It's a bit pricy but becoming more and more common in stores with 'international' aisles.

Thank you.

[jenh526]

Never heard of a picnic pie before. Is that a common thing in Britain? Is it similar to the US pot pie?

[Silverleaf]

I wouldn't say a picnic pie was common, in fact I had to google what it was. Pork pies are very common and pork pie and egg are fairly common.