S05.E32: City of Angels

[OnceSane]

Coming off a major loss at Nationals, Abby and the moms discuss what went wrong and also dish about some of the season's most shocking moments. Later, Abby drops a bombshell; and one mom gets a major surprise.

[turbogirlnyc]

Seriously? This studio audience is so ridiculous with the "on cue" overreactions... I'm laughing my ass off.

I miss Christi and Kelly.

Edited August 19, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[KaveDweller]

I don't think production likes Abby much. And that "bye, felicia" seemed like a racial microaggression to me.

 

I hope there is a 6th season so that we can view Abby's breakdown in real time.

 

It's an interesting switch because in earlier seasons the fan reaction was edited to show them thinking the mom's were crazy and saying awful things, but now they do it with Abby.

 

I know they say this is all scripted but that screaming match between Holly and Jill when Holly almost walked out seemed pretty real.  And kind of classless of Holly, Jill didn't say anything that insulting, she just observed she had changed.

 

I don't know if this counts as this episode, but it's really lame that they ran a half hour "sleepover special" as a new special with the girls, when they basically just edited the clips they've been showing during commercials all season.

[cali1981]

What a bunch of crap!  This was so over staged that it was hilarious.  The funniest was when after David's "surprise"  proposal, the kids all ran out when prompted like trained seals,  Even the "cliffhangers" seemed forced and phony.  Jeff Collins looks like a such a smarmy little git, doesn't he?

Edited August 19, 2015 by cali1981

[MyFavShows]

Holly has really turned into a complete mess of a crazy stage mom when she was the most normal and grounded of the entire bunch at the beginning of the show. Like wow. And what was that dress? Was she trying to channel Halle Barry from oscars 15 years ago?

Nia's video was horrible and she looked like a drag queen in the parts w/ the pink hair - maybe that was intentional? Who knows.

Jesslyn had to be kidding w/ that teen beach movie poof.

It's crazy that Abby was the most attractive looking female on the whole show except for the few minutes that Jeannette was on. Abby's plain block smock top and normal makeup looked so much better than those 1988 prom get ups that other moms had on - so cheesy they all looked - just gross. Kira looks more and more like Elvira w/ each appearance, and I thought a marriage proposal on a show like this was just really tacky.

Kendall's solo was very 'meh' - she has not improved at all since first joining the show except for being able to turn more times in a row. Her shoulders are very hunched over and she has little to no turnout. It looks worse now though because she is 12 years old and not 8.

[CDC]

I have no idea why this bothered me so much, but can someone please tell Jeff Collins that it's pronounced Mackenzie and not Mickinzie?

[NextIteration]

I don't think production likes Abby much. And that "bye, felicia" seemed like a racial microaggression to me.

 

Abby's implicit bias shows all the time with Holly and Nia - I can't full on call her a racist... but.

 

Kendall's solo was very 'meh' - she has not improved at all since first joining the show except for being able to turn more times in a row. Her shoulders are very hunched over and she has little to no turnout. It looks worse now though because she is 12 years old and not 8.

 

This is true of most of the girls, not improving beyond completing more rotations in their turns, turns that they learned initially by not using the correct muscles because they were not yet developed.

[MyMorningCoffee]

Ugh...that proposal. Not 30 seconds before that the moms were all screaming at each other. Then whatshisface proposes and it's all hugs, kisses, and "hey girls, you're finally gonna be in a wedding!" from Melissa, who as far as I can tell has absolutely no right making that decision!

[NextIteration]

I could. Her bias is pretty explicit.

I actually changed the channel when Kendall started dancing. She's not fun to watch since it looks like a struggle for her. Stamina has been a problem for her for a while.

 

Of course you're right, I guess I was trying to avoid the conversation all over again as it connects to the features and solos and horrific costumes that Abby gives Nia.

 

Stamina is a problem because they aren't in tech classes every day doing repetitions of across the floor exercises, it isn't just stretching that they have been losing out on.  This is an example of something that can't really be done at home, unless a family has a full on studio somewhere in the house.

[NextIteration]

Double post, sorry.

Edited August 19, 2015 by NextIteration

[Clemgo3165]

Of course you're right, I guess I was trying to avoid the conversation all over again as it connects to the features and solos and horrific costumes that Abby gives Nia.

 

Stamina is a problem because they aren't in tech classes every day doing repetitions of across the floor exercises, it isn't just stretching that they have been losing out on.  This is an example of something that can't really be done at home, unless a family has a full on studio somewhere in the house.

 

I watched part of the Kira/Kalani bit after the sleepover BS and Kalani was light years ahead of where she is now when she started the show. I don't know if that's some of the natural loss you might experience with a changing body at puberty, the loss of class and training time, or a combination of both. But she was really pretty remarkable when she started, so controlled in her movements and such clean, beautiful lines. Everything seems halfway done right now. 

 

Not to pick on Kalani, just she was the one I noticed last night.

[Maccagirl]

Ugh...that proposal. Not 30 seconds before that the moms were all screaming at each other. Then whatshisface proposes and it's all hugs, kisses, and "hey girls, you're finally gonna be in a wedding!" from Melissa, who as far as I can tell has absolutely no right making that decision!

 

The whole screech from Melissa, calling the girls over and telling them they were "FINALLY" gonna be in a wedding - I was like - wow - way outta line, Melissa.  But then again, maybe "wow-way outta line" should be her new middle name!  I am hoping beyond hope in the past when Kira was maybe talking with the Moms about a possible marriage, she mentioned she would like all the girls present, and that's where Melissa got that from, but then again, I am giving Melissa way too much credit!  Didn't Melissa get married recently - so not sure why she said you're FINALLY going to be in a wedding?  That would have been the perfect opportunity to have the girls in a wedding (although it was mostly different girls, such as Chloe, Paige, Brooke).  I really do not like most of the characters involved in this show - but Melissa actually brings out such ANGER and RAGE from within me.  I think of it as a cleansing therapy session for my emotions!    ARRGGHHHH.

[HZAnita]

To quote Holly, "Abby has lost her mind."  I can not believe she actually said, "Bye, Felicia" on the air, in front of an audience, as Holly was walking off.  Ugh.  And I will call it like I see it:  IMO, Abby is a racist witch and always has been.  She just tried to hide her views in the beginning, before she started believing her own hype.

 

I want this show to be dead, Dead, DEAD and for Abby to get her comeuppance.  If Abby thinks any sane mother would put their child in her hands if she didn't have this awful show, she is delusional. 

 

Die, show!!! DIE!!!!

 

Signed,

Irrational, hopeless Dance Moms addict. :(

[cali1981]

Agree on Abby's racism which is not exactly subtle at times.  There have been too many racial undertones in her treatment of NIa and in the selection of routines and costumes that she is given. Nia's video was a bit much for a 14 year old but Holly has so completely lost any sense of perspective that she can't see it.   In answer to Collin's "will Kalani return next season?"   If she does it will be clear signal that neither she nor her mother are really interested in a career as a working professional dancer.  Another year on DM will pretty much throttle that as Kalani falls further behind her peer group in terms of technique and vocabulary.  Kalani is a beautiful, talented, caring girl but she does have a bit of a meh personality at times.  I hope that she and Kira have not been seduced by DM's false promises of stardom.  Get back to your real studio kiddo and hone your skills and craft  because that ain't gonna happen on DM. 

Unless Abby and Collins have had a fatal creative and/or contractual falling out does anyone believe that she won't be back?  If it's real, I wonder if Maddie having to compete in the teen division next year has anything to do with any of this with Abby feeling that it's time to get out of Dodge.  Of course since many of the events on DM aren't exactly the real deal, who knows how true their results would be. 

[cali1981]

I know they say this is all scripted but that screaming match between Holly and Jill when Holly almost walked out seemed pretty real.  And kind of classless of Holly, Jill didn't say anything that insulting, she just observed she had changed.

 

 

The problem is that Jill is such a complete and utter fool with a penchant for stretching the truth in self-serving ways that anything that comes out of her mouth can be suspect.  She is clearly insanely jealous of Nia's "success" since she feels that her magnificent Kendall is far more deserving of it and much of her blather to Holly are clear indications of that.  I can see where Holly would not react well to most of what Jill has to say.

[tessa]

Just wow - Melissa talking back to the audience - Abby not talking and acting like a child. Personally, I'd rather have a whole hour of the moms going at it than watching the kids dance again. I applaud Holly and Jesslyn and even Jeannette - they're right - it's not fixed until they don't win. Both Melissa and Jill came of like a - holes.

 

I'm not going to critique hairstyles and outfits because I really don't care - I'm there for hopefully answers and the disagreements.

 

OK - I'm at the Holly and Jill fight and I'm sorry but I'm on Holly's side. Jill was the one, when head shots were taken, that overheard Abby tell the photographers that the ones to concentrate on were Maddie, MacKenzie, and Kalani. Jill then opened her big mouth and told the others. Holly clarified that Abby was concentrating on promoting those 3 after a dance competition and Abby responded that the others per se were on their own and had to make their own opportunities. Holly did just that and Jill didn't. Holly got Nia a real manager - Jill let Abby manage. Jill is so two faced and jealous that I wished she'd leave along with Abby. I really can't stand her.

 

Not as much a fan of Nia's new video but a lot of people are. Abby should have looked at herself without her top if she thought the one heavy dancer in the video was bad. She can never be behind someone if she isn't involved. Again - I'm not going to comment on Nia's appearance as I wore daisy dukes and tube tops to school at her age. Britney Spears was not much older when she did Baby One More Time which was a very suggestive song for someone her age.

 

I'm a sap so staged or not - I liked the proposal and wish them well. But it was comical as they're ready to kill each other one minute and hugging the next. Who says the moms will even be invited to the wedding? But we know they will be.

 

OK - predictions on if there will be a season 6. Maybe there will be a teen elite group and a junior elite group.

[cali1981]

 

 OK - predictions on if there will be a season 6. Maybe there will be a teen elite group and a junior elite group.

"Dance Moms Season 6, The Search for Abby"

[tessa]

OK - I'm sitting here watching the last 5 minutes where Abby is talking about her plans for the summer ( hiatus ) and she talks about taking Maddie and Mackenzie to Panama ( again favoring the Zieglers ). But then she goes on to say how at 45 ( whoops ) when the show first started she was planning on retiring. On what may I ask? We know Greg bailed her butt out so I would assume she didn't have much saved. She has no college education on any wiki that I see. Although her mom had 7 dance studios in Florida before she married Abby's dad and moved to Pittsburgh - it doesn't appear that her mom had a lot of money - so at the age of 40 - what did Abby honestly think she could live on?

[turbogirlnyc]

Just wow - Melissa talking back to the audience - Abby not talking and acting like a child. Personally, I'd rather have a whole hour of the moms going at it than watching the kids dance again. I applaud Holly and Jesslyn and even Jeannette - they're right - it's not fixed until they don't win. Both Melissa and Jill came of like a - holes.

I'm not going to critique hairstyles and outfits because I really don't care - I'm there for hopefully answers and the disagreements.

OK - I'm at the Holly and Jill fight and I'm sorry but I'm on Holly's side. Jill was the one, when head shots were taken, that overheard Abby tell the photographers that the ones to concentrate on were Maddie, MacKenzie, and Kalani. Jill then opened her big mouth and told the others. Holly clarified that Abby was concentrating on promoting those 3 after a dance competition and Abby responded that the others per se were on their own and had to make their own opportunities. Holly did just that and Jill didn't. Holly got Nia a real manager - Jill let Abby manage. Jill is so two faced and jealous that I wished she'd leave along with Abby. I really can't stand her.

Not as much a fan of Nia's new video but a lot of people are. Abby should have looked at herself without her top if she thought the one heavy dancer in the video was bad. She can never be behind someone if she isn't involved. Again - I'm not going to comment on Nia's appearance as I wore daisy dukes and tube tops to school at her age. Britney Spears was not much older when she did Baby One More Time which was a very suggestive song for someone her age.

I'm a sap so staged or not - I liked the proposal and wish them well. But it was comical as they're ready to kill each other one minute and hugging the next. Who says the moms will even be invited to the wedding? But we know they will be.

OK - predictions on if there will be a season 6. Maybe there will be a teen elite group and a junior elite group.

I thought Abby's reaction to the heavy woman in the video was ridiculous (for lack of a better word) considering the source.

Where did the whole "Bye, Felicia" thing start? I saw Kenya use it in her talking heads on Real Housewives of Atlanta but didn't realize it was a popular saying.

Edited August 19, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[turbogirlnyc]

The movie Friday, which I'm sure none of the people who use "Bye, Felicia" have seen.

Thanks!

[tessa]

I myself had no idea what it meant but someone here posted a video. From urban dictionary: bye felicia
When someone says that they're leaving and you could really give two shots less that they are. Their name then becomes "felicia", a random bi- atch that nobody is sad to see go. They're real name becomes irrelevant because nobody cares what it really is. Instead, they now are "felicia".

 

I changed up the words as I don't know how the mods are with swear words and did not want to disrespect any of you.

 

The term is obviously ghetto and again - Abby's racism is showing.

[tessa]

Also didn't Abby say something to the effect that Mack has a new song coming out Dance something? She hasn't had a song at all in 2015. She had 13 come out in 2014 - only 2 of which I heard but there's nothing about any upcoming release. Also she made a comment to Kira about Maddie B - what was that about? Jojo is the one that starred in a second Maddie B video - which was cute by the way - not Kalani.

[serenitynow]

There is something seriously wrong with Abby.  She's getting more and more weird and delusional. 

[KaveDweller]

Just wow - Melissa talking back to the audience - Abby not talking and acting like a child. Personally, I'd rather have a whole hour of the moms going at it than watching the kids dance again. I applaud Holly and Jesslyn and even Jeannette - they're right - it's not fixed until they don't win. Both Melissa and Jill came of like a - holes.

 

I'm not going to critique hairstyles and outfits because I really don't care - I'm there for hopefully answers and the disagreements.

 

OK - I'm at the Holly and Jill fight and I'm sorry but I'm on Holly's side. Jill was the one, when head shots were taken, that overheard Abby tell the photographers that the ones to concentrate on were Maddie, MacKenzie, and Kalani. Jill then opened her big mouth and told the others. Holly clarified that Abby was concentrating on promoting those 3 after a dance competition and Abby responded that the others per se were on their own and had to make their own opportunities. Holly did just that and Jill didn't. Holly got Nia a real manager - Jill let Abby manage. Jill is so two faced and jealous that I wished she'd leave along with Abby. I really can't stand her.

 

Not as much a fan of Nia's new video but a lot of people are. Abby should have looked at herself without her top if she thought the one heavy dancer in the video was bad. She can never be behind someone if she isn't involved. Again - I'm not going to comment on Nia's appearance as I wore daisy dukes and tube tops to school at her age. Britney Spears was not much older when she did Baby One More Time which was a very suggestive song for someone her age.

 

I'm a sap so staged or not - I liked the proposal and wish them well. But it was comical as they're ready to kill each other one minute and hugging the next. Who says the moms will even be invited to the wedding? But we know they will be.

 

OK - predictions on if there will be a season 6. Maybe there will be a teen elite group and a junior elite group.

I'm with Holly that she did nothing wrong with Nia and that it was good to get her own manager. I just thought she overreacted to Jill saying she changed the most. Jill wasn't necessarily saying she changed for the worse.

[NextIteration]

I thought Holly's huge reaction was to the insinuation that Nia was missing school.  That's a big deal to a person who's career was as an educator.  I understood her reaction completely.

 

It seems like Holly and Jess have gotten close, I feel like they are still the most grounded of the mothers, but that's isn't saying much, it's a low bar.

 

Melissa now has those dragon nails which indicate that she doesn't do a thing for anybody anymore.

[Absolom]

 

I'm with Holly that she did nothing wrong with Nia and that it was good to get her own manager.

Which is well and good on the surface, only Holly didn't get Nia her own manager.  That was all a plotline for the show.  All the people working with Nia were arranged by production.

 

Ratings:  985K viewers and a .3 rating.

[Clemgo3165]

Which then begs the question, why is Jill so upset with Holly over what is a production decision? Or is this just acting on their parts?

 

I actually like Nia's videos and like that she isn't playing to a tweeenage crowd. Though I would like for her voice to be brought forward a bit, I can't always hear her and she's not a bad singer. 

[tessa]

Clemgo - you are so correct. Jill's beef is with production then not with Holly but since she's seen how production can skew things when you disagree with them (Abby) so at least she's smart enough to realize that production could completely decide to eliminate Kendall's role. I do enjoy Nia's singing and can see her appealing to the younger crowd.

[Lemons]

I myself had no idea what it meant but someone here posted a video. From urban dictionary: bye felicia

When someone says that they're leaving and you could really give two shots less that they are. Their name then becomes "felicia", a random bi- atch that nobody is sad to see go. They're real name becomes irrelevant because nobody cares what it really is. Instead, they now are "felicia".

 

I changed up the words as I don't know how the mods are with swear words and did not want to disrespect any of you.

 

The term is obviously ghetto and again - Abby's racism is showing.

how is the term "ghetto"? and how is someone racist for using this currently trendy phrase?

[hatchetgirl]

I will always be on Holly's side. I like her. I like the support she gives her daughter and Nia is so poised and graceful, Holly is doing something right.

Jill has always been awful. Remember when she bought all those things for Abby to get on her good side? Ugh.

[Diane Mars]

The whole screech from Melissa, calling the girls over and telling them they were "FINALLY" gonna be in a wedding...

For once, I'll be on Melissa's side : was it not in reference to the dance "Always a bridesmaid" (or something like that) ?

[tessa]

/ https://twitter.com/urbanengiish/status/449725218953900032

ghetto translation of Bye Felicia

 

It may be trendy - but a white person saying it to a black person shows disrespect and racism in the context it was said

[OnceSane]

Move on from the "Bye, Felicia!" debate as it is veering sharply off-topic.

[limecoke]

She is clearly insanely jealous of Nia's "success" since she feels that her magnificent Kendall is far more deserving of it and much of her blather to Holly are clear indications of that.

Because it is, of course, Kendall's season to shine, don't ya know.

[OhSnap]

I thought the proposal, and everyone's reaction, was sweet.

 

I'm usually on Abby's side because all of these mothers know what they're signing their kids up for. If they don't like how Abby handles things, then they can keep their kids off of TV and find another way to make silk purses out of sow's ears. OK, that's a bit rough on the kids. lol I think they're all moderately talented. Nia has improved the most, and I love to watch her dance. I don't think any of them should quit their day jobs, though. This singing/video stuff is incredibly contrived, obviously. I'm a bit embarrassed for all of them in that regard.

[tessa]

I actually think Abby's running scared and she finally realizes the mistakes she's made. We all tuned in and fell in love with the girls, put up with the moms and abhorred Abby's way of teaching. Due to the drama of Abby's teaching and controversy - the show gained more viewers and Abby ramped up her rants and favoritism She's lost some of the original group ( and viewers ) through her actions. She's brought in other dancers and concepts ( an additional team, dancers from AUDC that viewers liked ) all to no avail as ratings continue to fall.

 

The fake animosity between the moms and Abby became real - kids who once had a good relationship with her - saw her turn on them. Abby is now left with disgruntled moms, isn't respected by other professionals in her field and is not the celebrity she thought she would become. The girls are older and have moved on to other projects and will be hampered through lack of real training to compete if placed in the teen category. I think Abby sees all this now - but with what we know of her personality - even if she had the chance to do it all over - she'd continue to do the same thing with the same result 5 yrs later.

[cali1981]

Because it is, of course, Kendall's season to shine, don't ya know.

What?  I thought that it was only Kendall's week a while back according to Jill's incessant whining on that episode.  Maybe it's really Kendall's decade.

[dyanad]

Just wanted to clarify the "Bye Felicia" thing was not getto and did not originate in the black culture. It was used by gay men and drag queens as was on fleek, hunty, werk and many others. I did not find it to be racist at all. 

[hatchetgirl]

What a freaking mess Abby is. Dang, she lost any credibility she had at all and I can't wait to see her fail.

[Moxie Cat]

To those who follow the "Dance Moms" backstories more closely than I do, can someone clarify Kira's background?

 

On this show, she says that she owns a dance studio.

 

But on the "Kalani/Kira" special, she says that she initially signed up Kalani for dance lessons because a studio was located down the street from her house. And moreover, to pay for lessons, she and Kalani cleaned the studio regularly. Kalani just happened to take to dance naturally, but Kira said that she would have been fine with her doing sports or other stuff too (and in fact, wanted her to). 

 

Don't people who own dance studios generally have a strong background in dance? How did she go from someone who signed her daughter up because a studio happened to be convenient to someone who owns a dance studio--only about 10 years later?

 

(I also call BS on Kira's reaction in that interview to the question "you were really young when you had Kalani, right?" She hems and haws a little and then says "I was like, 19, I think?" How many women don't know how old she was when she had her--presumably first?--child? This was not 50 years ago, but about 14-15. How old IS Kira? Is she older than the 33-34 y.o. having Kalani at 19 would make her?)

 

On another topic, I noticed there is no discussion upthread about Abby's notecards. It's obvious she was using the cards to sneak her own comments in that couldn't be edited out by production, but they did shoot around them. We get a quick glimpse of one that reads "They fined me $80,000 because I refused to attend a fixed competition." Then there is another one that starts "This show..." (seen during the recap of the Kira argument) but production was careful to only shoot headshots of Abby while she was holding that card so you can't see the rest. Has Abby revealed what the cards said anywhere online?

 

Tessa's comment above about Abby is right on the money, IMO. It seemed apparent to me that she was disgusted with production months ago, when she gave a fairly testy interview to EW. I'm guessing she's trying hard right now to extract herself from filming this show in the future.

 

Oh, and the Holly/Jill argument was definitely about Nia's schooling. Holly was irate because Jill said that Nia missed a lot of school over the past months (possibly more than the other girls) with the clear implication it was due to the video(s).

[cali1981]

 I don't doubt that Holly has interfered with Nia's schooling by doing the show but I'm not clear as to what Jill was arguing.

Well neither was Jill or the rest of us for that matter so you're in good company.  Is there anyone more vapid and insipid than this woman? Oh darn, I forgot about Melissa.  Never mind!

[Moxie Cat]

So because I'm either a masochist or have too much free time, I decided to transcribe the Jill/Holly fight. And I learned that it's no wonder we're confused.

 

The original question was: which mom was most changed by Hollywood? Jill says Holly, because she now takes Nia away from the group (and their regular schooling, whatever that is) to pursue other projects. Holly argues with Jill's assertion that they're always late, so that gets the ball rolling. It's KIRA who says that Nia and JoJo missed the most school in LA, which is what brings up the "missing school" idea. (Actually, Holly should have jumped down Kira's throat for that statement.) After transcribing, I'm actually on Jill's side, because her point seems to be that Holly is the most different BECAUSE she permits Nia to spend part of each day pursuing other opportunities instead of attending regular school (or with a tutor) on the same schedule as the other DM girls. (A far cry from anything Pittsburgh Holly would have done.) All Holly hears Jill say is "Nia misses school" and she flips out and accuses Jill of lying.

 

Here's the transcript; it's probably not 100% accurate because Holly and Jill talk over each other a lot, but you will get the gist.

 

Jeff: When you look around, is there one of you that you would say Hollywood has changed more than any of the others?

Jill: Well, I think of the moms here, I think Holly in my mind has changed the most....

Abby: Yes.

Jill: [Holly] has gone totally, like flipped, totally different. She's no longer a Pittsburgh mom, and she's all Hollywood, off and running.

Holly: I took Nia's passion, her desire, when we came out to LA, what she wanted to do, and I treated it how I would approach a job. How are we going to be strategic, how are we going to network, no different. There is nothing wrong with what I've done.

Jill: OK. Holly has a lot going on outside of what we do here, and Holly's always late because she's off with Nia doing stuff...

Holly: Oh, that's not true.

Jill: No, no.

Holly: How dare you...always late...oh.

Jill: Holly, I'm not making it a bad thing.

Kira: Well, I think too...a lot of it too...is like, the two kids on the team that probably miss the most school and had to make up were your two kids. (looks at Holly and Jess)

Holly: No, wait, Nia was on time, she took advantage of opportunities, but Nia has done and fulfilled all of her schoolwork.

Jill: OK, so you miss school and other things to take advantage of opportunities.

 

Holly: No, she did not miss school...missing school would be - 

Jess: You miss school in the morning and then you do it in the afternoon.

Holly: Absolutely, always make it up.

Jill: OK. But when we were all together, you were out making opportunities for your child, doing something else. It never used to be like that. That's all. [THIS is the key line - and the rationale for Jill's answer to the original question.]

Holly: No.

Jill: Don't be so defensive, Holly.

Holly: Oh, falsifying information.

Jill: No, no, you're very defensive, and you shouldn't be.

Holly: Because you're lying!

Jill: Holly....

Holly: You're lying!

Jill: Do not sit there and call me a liar. Everybody here knows....your kid wouldn't come....

Holly: You said my kid doesn't go to school!

Jill: She wouldn't! She'd do it later in the day because you were...

Holly: Oh my gosh! She went to school. You can go to school before or after. She went to school after.

Jill: Right, OK. You didn't show up when everybody else did. So what is different?

Holly: You're saying she didn't go to school. That's different. That's a lie.

Jill: I didn't say she didn't go to school.

Holly: You did.

Jill: I said she didn't show up....

Holly: She did....just in the afternoon....

Jill: Holly, be quiet for once and listen to what I'm saying!

Holly: She did her schoolwork when she was supposed to, after.

Jill: (repeats it) Holly, be quiet for once and listen to what I'm saying!

Holly: You know what, I am not going to have this woman lie about Nia...[can't make out the end]

Jill: She will never be quiet, because she can never listen to what anybody else says.

(Holly gets up)

Holly: If she is going to talk about Nia not going to school, which is a lie....

Jill: I'm not talking about Nia....

Holly: You are, you just said it....

Jill: I said YOU, Holly!

Holly: (leaving) I'm not...not...not....'cause that's a lie.

Jill: Holly, I did not lie.

Holly: Saying [indecipherable] that Nia did not go to school....not doing it.

 

Then it descends into clapping and the "Bye Felicia" nonsense, and Holly is still yelling that Jill is lying and Jill says Holly can dish it out but she can't take it.

[WhosThatGirl]

I honestly don't think I'm on either Holly or Jills side. However, I can understand if Holly is slowly taking Nia away from the studio events and such to pursue other things. Only because Abby purposely leaves Nia out of things and none of the other Mom's think to wonder where Nia is. I remember there was a situation, an event where all the other kids were asked by Abby to go somewhere and Holly said Nia was not and she cried because of it and all the other Moms acted dumbfounded. But this is what Abby does. She tries to ostracize the kids and moms out. It happened with Chloe last season. Moving on..

 

If Abby were to drive her business into the ground now- and again, let's not forget she went bankrupt and while Melissa's boyfriend now husband helped out money wise, I think the show did as well- , it would be a much bigger deal than it was before. I remember in the first couple of seasons, she used to talk about how everyone knew her studio and her dancers and whatnot, but now... everyone really does. It would be a much bigger deal if her dancing business falls apart or if the studios fail.  And to be real, Abby doesn't seem to care much for the dancing, she is now a celebrity and that's what she cares about.  I wonder if that's why the production doesn't like her much anymore. She probably demands so much and they are probably over it.  Especially lately where this past season she was acting like a nut, it was probably kind of nerve-racking what Abby you would encounter that day. That's even the stuff that maybe we didn't possibly see behind the camera, who knows. 

 

I actually think Abby's running scared and she finally realizes the mistakes she's made. We all tuned in and fell in love with the girls, put up with the moms and abhorred Abby's way of teaching. Due to the drama of Abby's teaching and controversy - the show gained more viewers and Abby ramped up her rants and favoritism She's lost some of the original group ( and viewers ) through her actions. She's brought in other dancers and concepts ( an additional team, dancers from AUDC that viewers liked ) all to no avail as ratings continue to fall.

The fake animosity between the moms and Abby became real - kids who once had a good relationship with her - saw her turn on them. Abby is now left with disgruntled moms, isn't respected by other professionals in her field and is not the celebrity she thought she would become. The girls are older and have moved on to other projects and will be hampered through lack of real training to compete if placed in the teen category. I think Abby sees all this now - but with what we know of her personality - even if she had the chance to do it all over - she'd continue to do the same thing with the same result 5 yrs later.

 

This. I think Abby thinks she is a celebrity though. That's why every season, she ramps up her teaching style. She thinks it's fine. I think the animosity with the moms became real because before the show I don't think that many of the kids were being taught by Abby until then and the show came along and grabbed all the Moms with the personalities and made a team.  But I think Abby thinks she is famous- I think she thinks without her, these girls would be nothing, she's said as much when the moms have tried to call her out on it. 

 

I want this show to end, least of all so I can stop watching but I also think if the show were to end, the girls would be able to pursue other forms of dance/singing/acting whatever they wanted to do.  Being on this show  is hindering them, I think. 

 

That's all. Sorry for the long post.

[NextIteration]

Since the LA shenanigans started, the kids are falling further and further behind in their training.  They were already losing opportunities by not being allowed to pursue summer intensives which is where many young dancers improve rapidly with no other things to think about - school work, competitions, boys and on and on.  Just weeks and weeks of technical classes.

 

I can't imagine what is being planned behind the scenes, but if we have to wait until January for a premiere date, I hope that I can put this show on my do not bother list.  Who knows.

[leighroda]

I do agree that Holly has changed the most, however Jill is the last person in a glass house to be throwing that stone... Honestly to me it comes off more as jealousy that Nia seems to be doing better in the music world (I use that lightly I don't really believe that either child is going to make it big). Jill herself has stated many a time that she would do whatever it takes for Kendall to be a star, so to me it seems more like she resents Nia for moving on vs actually being sad that Nia goes to do her own thing at times.

I don't understand why they feel Nia owes them so much loyalty (other than this just being a storyline), they have stood back and allowed Nia to be excluded, but now that she is (marginally) successful they all want to cry foul.

[KaveDweller]

 Jill herself has stated many a time that she would do whatever it takes for Kendall to be a star, so to me it seems more like she resents Nia for moving on vs actually being sad that Nia goes to do her own thing at times.

I don't understand why they feel Nia owes them so much loyalty (other than this just being a storyline), they have stood back and allowed Nia to be excluded, but now that she is (marginally) successful they all want to cry foul.

 

All the moms do that though, they do whatever is in the best interest of their kid, then get offended when someone else does too.  It's like when Nia invited JoJo to be in her performance in Australia and not any one else.  Nevermind that Abby had invited Maddie, McKenzie, Kendall, and Kalani to perform at her own event and all the moms said Holly and Jess should just accept that.

[leighroda]

I agree they all do it, Jill just tends to be the most vocal about it.

[tessa]

I think Jill, Kira and Abby's criticism or comments of Holly changes are more due to jealousy. Unlike the other 2 - it was made clear to Holly that any opportunities Nia got in LA would not be because of Abby. LA is like NYC - fast paced, hectic and scheduled. If an opportunity presents itself - Holly has to take advantage of it and it's accepted conditions. It's no different than us calling for appts at say a specialist and being given a time when they can see you - to turn it down usually means we wait until another opening is available.

 

I'm sure Nia's studies have not suffered. Not only do I think Holly would be on top of that - but I also think Nia's pretty level headed and intelligent

[Absolom]

The entire thing of Nia's opportunities is completely fake though.  Every single one of those "opportunities" is arranged, contracted for, and paid by production.  If the mothers are still jealous about that, and that is possible, it isn't through Holly's doing except for following production's directions.