S01.E03: The Road Trip - Part 2

[LaChavalina]

Blossom's school records might be under two different names, which would out her immediately.  If she is attending a women's college, then the fact that she has transitioned could be very obvious.  While it is nice to think that discrimination would not occur, college admissions are not done blindly; there is a lot of discretion in the process, especially at highly sought schools or programs.   

I'd add to this that Blossom mentioned being from Mississippi. I'm not sure where it is that she lives now, but if she was born in Mississippi it's likely her birth certificate still specifies her birth name and sex, since MS has no laws designed to account for changing that info. Same story if she has a driver's license from there.

 

ETA: I was also just looking up physical requirements for entry into nursing programs. It looks like most require medical records including a physical, a mental health exam, and a statement from a physician about any drugs the applicant is taking. So there's no way these schools wouldn't know she was transgender. I'm sure that these physical and mental health requirements could also form a convenient basis for denying her application, if a school chose to view her as a liability.

Edited August 11, 2015 by LaChavalina

[Human]

Blossom's story rang very true to me.  Transgender students are outed all the time during the admissions process, especially if they have not been able to amend their documents to reflect their correct sex, gender and name.  A major issue colleges and universities will have is that they haven't updated their housing and bathroom regulations.  So there will then come the question of where to board the trans student or if the student lives off campus, the next topic is how the trans student will use gendered facilities on campus.  In recent years, I think a lot of college campuses want to do the right thing and stop discrimination (and many have!).  However, having a scandal isn't something people want, either, and it's unfortunately still a scandal for a transgender person to urinate or defecate in the proper bathroom or to change clothes in the proper locker room or to attend gendered clubs or religious services, etc.  So when an application makes it apparent the student is transgender, they often just move it to the rejection pile rather than navigate that headache.

 

This is why trans awareness is so important, even if it comes in a Caitlyn Jenner package.  People who maybe haven't thought about these things before are thinking about it and they become allies and they help add their voices to the No H8 bunch.  

[CousinAmy]

There's an entry on Caitlyn's blog written by Blossom where she says "it kind of dawned on me that it might be because I'm trans." 

 

 http://www.eonline.com/news/684744/caitlyn-jenner-blogs-about-blossom-brown-and-has-her-tell-you-her-story-about-life-as-a-transgender-woman

Edited August 11, 2015 by CousinAmy

[Mya Stone]

I'm in my second year of a state accredited RN program, and I can tell you - I needed a physical and all vaccinations up to date, a CORi/SORI check, and that's just the beginning. In my state (MA), I have to be of what is known as GMC - good moral character - in order to take my boards and be licensed in this state.

Luckily for me, I'm in a really liberal state. But I imagine for trans students in not so liberal areas there is a very real fear that they won't meet the requirements.

[SFoster21]

Um...can they get their own show? I'd watch that!

Candis Cayne has a show on E.

[Cosmic Muffin]

I was rummaging around to see if Jen Richards had written any books, and I didn't find any, but at the site WeHappyTrans I found a brief bio:

 

"Jen Richards lives in the Andersonville neighborhood of Chicago and is quite happily in an asymptotic relationship to radical authenticity and in a permanent state of aporia. Jen is unabashedly proud to be a graduate of Shimer College, longtime member of the Theosophical Society in America, and an Outward Bound alum,  has published articles, led workshops and presented talks on a variety of topics across the country, and relishes her work in the arts as the Managing Director of eighth blackbird and President of New Music Chicago.  She humbly requests your latitude as she figures out what the hell she is doing, and remains genuinely open to feedback.  She earnestly loves truth, beauty and goodness. She also loves you, madly.  Yes, you."

 

And it just seems to fit how she's come across in her brief time on the show; smart, gentle and an educator. I love Jbo's books, so I was hoping Jen Richards had written some too.

[bagatelle]

I was rummaging around to see if Jen Richards had written any books, and I didn't find any, but at the site WeHappyTrans I found a brief bio:

 

"Jen Richards lives in the Andersonville neighborhood of Chicago and is quite happily in an asymptotic relationship to radical authenticity and in a permanent state of aporia. Jen is unabashedly proud to be a graduate of Shimer College, longtime member of the Theosophical Society in America, and an Outward Bound alum,  has published articles, led workshops and presented talks on a variety of topics across the country, and relishes her work in the arts as the Managing Director of eighth blackbird and President of New Music Chicago.  She humbly requests your latitude as she figures out what the hell she is doing, and remains genuinely open to feedback.  She earnestly loves truth, beauty and goodness. She also loves you, madly.  Yes, you."

 

And it just seems to fit how she's come across in her brief time on the show; smart, gentle and an educator. I love Jbo's books, so I was hoping Jen Richards had written some too.

 

I really like Jen too. She has an aura about her. In fact, they all do, except Cait.  Speaking of Cait, is it the hormones that are making her so darn weepy?

[SmithW6079]

I know Jenner is 65 years old, but I was really amazed at how skinny her arms were -- there was almost no muscle tone. Does she think being a woman means not having visible muscle? Because muscle is more important than ever at that age. Older people can be subject to sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass). 

 

Speaking of Cait, is it the hormones that are making her so darn weepy?

 

That was my assumption, or maybe just the freedom to express emotion, which she may have she had to suppress all her life.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

'This Pickle Is Really Sour' (And That Has Nothing To Do With Ronda At All) / In which I Am Cait basically hands Chanel the headline.

[ClareWalks]

I know Jenner is 65 years old, but I was really amazed at how skinny her arms were -- there was almost no muscle tone. Does she think being a woman means not having visible muscle? Because muscle is more important than ever at that age. Older people can be subject to sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass). 

 

 

I'm not sure what hormones and hormone blockers are involved during transition, but if her testosterone is being suppressed that could definitely contribute to a loss of muscle mass. It's a simple fact that women cannot build or maintain muscle mass like men largely because of testosterone. She appears to have plenty of muscle, particularly for an older person, so I don't think there's any danger there. In addition, I am sure that like most women (I am a trainer so I have heard this a lot) she doesn't want a lot of "bulk." Cait is quite athletic so she likely will stay in great shape for years to come :)

[Miss February]

Caitlyn and Rhonda have a common trait that I find very irritating.  When someone tries to have a substantive conversation with either of them, they immediately start talking halfway through the other person's first sentence, and it's downhill from there with constant interruptions.  Caitlyn does this all the time, and it especially stood out to me with Rhonda when Jennifer was trying to explain to her the transition stage Caitlyn is in right now.  When people are trying to help you understand something after you've asked a question, complained, or seem confused, let them finish their sentences!  Damn.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Miss February

[Coffeecup]

Something just occurred to me. Caitlyn has been a serious athlete all her life and is an Olympian gold medalist. Are any of the children involved in athletics? At least, I can't remember ever hearing anything about the children with Kris -- Kendall and Kylie -- being interested in sports or athletic activities. What about the children from the other two wives? Any star athletes among them?

[Artsda]

Rob used to be in track, we saw video of then Bruce cheering him on and being at his meet. Kim's soccer team photos are all over the internet. Kendall used to be on the cheerleading squad, paparazzi used to follow her around when she went to  her highschool meets. They all are great skiers/snowboarders. They were in team sports as kids. 

 

The other bio kids, Brody and Brandon are big surfers. The Jenners are just overall fearless and active.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Artsda

[xls]

I know Jenner is 65 years old, but I was really amazed at how skinny her arms were -- there was almost no muscle tone. Does she think being a woman means not having visible muscle? Because muscle is more important than ever at that age. Older people can be subject to sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass). 

 

That was my assumption, or maybe just the freedom to express emotion, which she may have she had to suppress all her life.

Legs too, I noticed. I also assumed it was loss of muscle mass usually found in the elderly. Not that 65 is that old.

You know I got a few years before I reach that age, but it shocked me when an ambulance driver called me elderly when I slipped on ice this past winter. Wa-what? You can't mean me!

[CousinAmy]

Legs too, I noticed. I also assumed it was loss of muscle mass usually found in the elderly. Not that 65 is that old.

You know I got a few years before I reach that age, but it shocked me when an ambulance driver called me elderly when I slipped on ice this past winter. Wa-what? You can't mean me!

Older person? Elderly? Caitlyn is a younger person! I say that because I am 5 months her senior (she'll be 66 in October.) If 65 is elderly, what is 66?

 

Remember this: some day you will look fondly back at 65 and say, "I was just a kid back then!"

[iwasish]

Caitlyn has very bad knees from sports injuries. I think she also dieted severely to lose weight. She was very thin in the last probably 3 years. She seemed to always be eating a banana when she was on screen. she did have horrible table manners. When she went to Pismo Beach with Scott and Khloe she was talking with her mouth full of food and spraying it all over.

In the most recent shows you can really see her collarbone and how thin her face is.

[Starchild]

There's an entry on Caitlyn's blog written by Blossom where she says "it kind of dawned on me that it might be because I'm trans." 

 

 http://www.eonline.com/news/684744/caitlyn-jenner-blogs-about-blossom-brown-and-has-her-tell-you-her-story-about-life-as-a-transgender-woman

And right next to this very important article is a piece entitled "Caitlyn Jenner's boobs get nippley in cold air! Watch the bonus clip,"

 

SMH

[Coffeecup]

Rob used to be in track, we saw video of then Bruce cheering him on and being at his meet. Kim's soccer team photos are all over the internet. Kendall used to be on the cheerleading squad, paparazzi used to follow her around when she went to  her highschool meets. They all are great skiers/snowboarders. They were in team sports as kids. 

 

The other bio kids, Brody and Brandon are big surfers. The Jenners are just overall fearless and active.

Thanks for the info! I didn't know anything about their sports activities.

[Kromm]

I'm not sure what hormones and hormone blockers are involved during transition, but if her testosterone is being suppressed that could definitely contribute to a loss of muscle mass. It's a simple fact that women cannot build or maintain muscle mass like men largely because of testosterone. She appears to have plenty of muscle, particularly for an older person, so I don't think there's any danger there. In addition, I am sure that like most women (I am a trainer so I have heard this a lot) she doesn't want a lot of "bulk." Cait is quite athletic so she likely will stay in great shape for years to come :)

Someone in their mid 60s doesn't have that much hormone secretion anyway.

[whoknowswho]

Well I give Cait credit for wearing a WHITE bathing suit. The only time I wore one I discovered it showed waaaayy too much once it got wet! lol

Lol- you know what?

When she put on the white bathing suit- it IMMEDIATELY flashed into my mind exactly what you could see when it got wet-- Anything darker coloured shows up way too well. Women know this usually, and make sure to have a well lined top and bottom. Of course, that's unless you're an exhibitionist...

[whoknowswho]

Blossom's story rang very true to me.  Transgender students are outed all the time during the admissions process, especially if they have not been able to amend their documents to reflect their correct sex, gender and name.  A major issue colleges and universities will have is that they haven't updated their housing and bathroom regulations.  So there will then come the question of where to board the trans student or if the student lives off campus, the next topic is how the trans student will use gendered facilities on campus.  In recent years, I think a lot of college campuses want to do the right thing and stop discrimination (and many have!).  However, having a scandal isn't something people want, either, and it's unfortunately still a scandal for a transgender person to urinate or defecate in the proper bathroom or to change clothes in the proper locker room or to attend gendered clubs or religious services, etc.  So when an application makes it apparent the student is transgender, they often just move it to the rejection pile rather than navigate that headache.

 

This is why trans awareness is so important, even if it comes in a Caitlyn Jenner package.  People who maybe haven't thought about these things before are thinking about it and they become allies and they help add their voices to the No H8 bunch.  

I graduated from nursing training in 1982. So, a long time ago.  At that time, we were literally given a white Bible, gave our oath and promised basically to be good, and lead by example. Nurses were held up as needing to be exemplary. There was or is still an action called "Conduct unbecoming" a nurse-- and it was serious- if I used drugs, I could permanently lose my license, if found to have used conduct unbecoming a nurse. That crap was drilled into our heads.  To put in prospective, that was the last year we had to wear nurse's caps, and we still had to wear white uniforms with white hose and shoes, and not make runs to the grocery store while in uniform. .

 

I'm also not sure if this is still the case, but at that time no male nurse was to clean or wash a female patient- they had male patients only. I imagine if you are transgender it would be a nightmare, even if living as a woman. 

 

I'm not saying it's right- but if Blossom came out as transgender on her application, things would be complicated and difficult to see exactly where she would fit in. Easier to deny her application than to deal with the potential problems.  I'm sure things have changed in the 33 years since I graduated--the Gideons no longer provide the little white Bibles...as I re certified in 2005 and didn't get one when I graduated.  Hopefully many things have changed, but many more things still need to change in nursing. 

[TomGirl]

Just musing..... do you think there are moments or situations where Caitlin ever misses being Bruce?

[trimthatfat]

Yeah, Brandon said she pulled up her shirt to give him a look at the new additions and he was kind of put off by it. Like... Hey, you're still my dad.

P.S. Love me some Milania Giudice!!

WTF...I shouldn't be surprised that she'd do that seeing how her step-children joke about having sex with one another and lack boundaries, but I am.

[Human]

Just musing..... do you think there are moments or situations where Caitlin ever misses being Bruce?

I don't want to make a blanket statement because every trans person will feel differently about this.  So speaking for myself, in the early days of transition, I did have many moments where I missed my previous name and pronouns.  It had nothing to do with any sort of regret.  It was more about being fatigued.  It was exhausting to have to explain and remind and be on edge.  Those first few months when those closest to me refused to accept even calling me a different name, I often mused on which misery would be easier to bear - the one where I was living a lie or the one where others thought my amended existence was the lie.  Then there was just the part where learning new routines and making social adjustments could be uncomfortable and sometimes I thought it might be easier to fall back into old habits.  Like using the pre-transition bathroom because they had better soaps.

 

Even with Caitlyn's excellent support system, it wouldn't be all that unusual if she were to experience growing pains and find herself missing certain stuff.  

[CousinAmy]

 

I'm not saying it's right- but if Blossom came out as transgender on her application, things would be complicated and difficult to see exactly where she would fit in. Easier to deny her application than to deal with the potential problems.  I'm sure things have changed in the 33 years since I graduated--the Gideons no longer provide the little white Bibles...as I re certified in 2005 and didn't get one when I graduated.  Hopefully many things have changed, but many more things still need to change in nursing. 

In the link to the blog I posted the other day, there was a picture of Blossom holding a certificate, which wasn't quite clear, but it looked like there was a male first name, then "Blossom" in quotes. Is it possible some of her records are still under her pre-transition name? That's not a moral failing, but maybe an administrative nightmare, if she's known or applied under two different names.

 

Also, she has no proof as far as I can tell, why she was rejected. In the blog, she said, "It dawned on me (paraphasing: that it was because I was trans.)" Does a school have to tell you why you were rejected? Could she sue to get the records and find out why? Otherwise, you can't assume anything more than she told us, it was her supposition. 

[whoknowswho]

I don't want to make a blanket statement because every trans person will feel differently about this.  So speaking for myself, in the early days of transition, I did have many moments where I missed my previous name and pronouns.  It had nothing to do with any sort of regret.  It was more about being fatigued.  It was exhausting to have to explain and remind and be on edge.  Those first few months when those closest to me refused to accept even calling me a different name, I often mused on which misery would be easier to bear - the one where I was living a lie or the one where others thought my amended existence was the lie.  Then there was just the part where learning new routines and making social adjustments could be uncomfortable and sometimes I thought it might be easier to fall back into old habits.  Like using the pre-transition bathroom because they had better soaps.

 

Even with Caitlyn's excellent support system, it wouldn't be all that unusual if she were to experience growing pains and find herself missing certain stuff.  

Thanks, Human for being so great with explanations!

In my wildest dreams, I honestly have no idea how hard it would be, to know you are in one body but should be in the other.  How hard it would be to battle every single day to be a "human being". To deal with anger, fear, and prejudice from many sides, all the time.  To be tired all the time, and second guess yourself.

I can't understand, as I have not walked in your shoes-- but I do really appreciate the time you take to try to help us understand. Thank you. :)

[TomGirl]

Human, thanks for replying to my question!

[LemonSoda]

I could relate to Rhonda's feelings on a different level. Many years ago I moved to NYC with my best friend,a gay male. Only I and a guy he secretly dated in high school knew he was gay. NYC provided a life he didn't know existed. He found his people. While I was thrilled he was finally living the life he always dreamed of, going out, dating different guys, having the social life he never thought he would have I felt abandoned and ditched. He was living his dream, experiencing a new life with new people. It was really hard on me. I guess because from ages 12 to 18 it had always been us against the world. Now I was all alone. The range of emotions from jealousy to shame over selfishness sucked.

[Human]

To be fair, most people can relate to the Ronda story since it's not LGBT exclusive.  Our tastes and our realities can change, and sometimes they can change overnight.  Ever had a friend who had a kid?  On Thursday you're hanging out, on Friday they have a squalor and ditch you because they have found their people who also have their own squalors and you pretty much never see them again save for gift giving dates.  Any premise can be inserted into the Ronda story.  I think that's why it's easy to want to sympathize with Ronda even though all of the editing shows that she's self-excluding during a work trip.  

Edited August 13, 2015 by Human

[iwasish]

I don't think she was working, Caitlyn said to come along.. you need a vacation. She then proceeded to treat her as if she were on the clock. She expected her to find a secluded hideaway for them on short notice and do what seemed to be a lot of other business for Cait. She even said to the other cis-woman I should have stayed home, I could have gotten a lot more done from there, but this was supposed to be a vacation.

I doubt Caitlyn made arrangements for the chef and the other amenities, that was all Rhonda.  Then to top it off, when discussing Cait's coming out and confiding in Rhonda, Cait makes a "joke" that she befriended her because of her shopping skills..  She should be grateful to her, it was Rhonda who took her in for all her procedures "in the middle of the night" and brought her home and took care of her. she was probably the only visitor she had at times, since it's pretty clear most of her kids didn't really go up there often. But then Caitlyn was always a pretty self absorbed person, who didn't worry all that much about other peoples feelings. And if she was called on it, she expected that her feeble "Gee, I'm sorry about that"  to be apology enough and then moved on as if nothing had happened. So far I'm not seeing the Caitlyn is a nicer person than Bruce, more fun than Bruce..etc.

[CousinAmy]

From the previews of next week, it looks like a lot of Kardashian confrontations. So much for educating the audience, we're back to the drah-ma of reality television. 

[JakeyJokes]

Speaking of Cait, is it the hormones that are making her so darn weepy?

That was my assumption, or maybe just the freedom to express emotion, which she may have she had to suppress all her life.

 

 

Maybe both. I have an MTF trans friend and she would often complain about hormones making her crabby. Conversely, my uncle is FTM and explained to me that as you take hormones, you essentially go through menopause as a woman and then puberty as a man, so you're an absolute emotional wreck during that time.

[Fostersmom]

Something just occurred to me. Caitlyn has been a serious athlete all her life and is an Olympian gold medalist. Are any of the children involved in athletics? At least, I can't remember ever hearing anything about the children with Kris -- Kendall and Kylie -- being interested in sports or athletic activities. What about the children from the other two wives? Any star athletes among them?

 

The other kids might have showed more interest in sports if their father ever spent any time raising them during their childhoods to pass any of it on to them.