S14.E01: Mad Dash Mayhem

[slothgirl]

I really don't understand why Ashely is being discussed in terms of her clothes and who she used to design for?  I don't remember the boards here or anywhere else going on and on about the way any of the other designers dress other than a comment here or there.

Certainly no one goes on about how the men dress vs. how they design. 

 

I just can't believe it.  Because she's fat everyone focuses on the way she dresses? 

I can't speak for anyone else, but "she's fat" is NOT the explanation for me.

 

She's supposedly designing for plus size women and thinks they should have fun, attractive clothes, and yet nothing that she showed in RTTR show or on herself or in the first challenge looked to me like lines and silhouettes that would flatter plus size women.

 

There have been discussions of past contestants and how they present themselves. There was endless discussion of the "dirty" look that whashername cry-girl sported and Portland girl's circle tats. Even on the show, it gets brought up that female designers are or aren't designing for themselves, or see their "girl" as being someone just like them. Its gets mentioned that some designers often style themselves better than their designs for the challenges. Obviously the guys aren't going to be expected to dress like the girl they are designing for. They're guys. Even so, there were numerous comments on both Mondo's season about his silly shorts.

 

If you're trying to focus on a certain market and want to convince people that you're onto something that they should be excited about when it goes against the "industry standard status quo", then you should be thinking about your branding and how your own presentation affects it. You're only going to get at most, 16 chances (plus fashion week) to show it via your challenge designs. If you show pictures of yourself wearing your own designs for that market, they should appeal to that market. (sorry, that would more appropriately be in the RTTR thread).

 

Most of the designers on PR have nothing new, innovative, or memorable to say or show. Their best shot at having a business is to establish their brand and target their market at every opportunity through the series, not just figure that if they win, they'll be set. (and if they lose?). Some do this; others don't.

 

I'm not expecting more from Ashley just because she's fat. But I'm not going to rally behind her just because she's fat either.

Edited August 12, 2015 by slothgirl

[Julia]

I really don't understand why Ashely is being discussed in terms of her clothes and who she used to design for?  I don't remember the boards here or anywhere else going on and on about the way any of the other designers dress other than a comment here or there.

Certainly no one goes on about how the men dress vs. how they design. 

 

I just can't believe it.  Because she's fat everyone focuses on the way she dresses?  There have been so many past designers with ugly  tattoos and disgusting finger nails and very specific make up,  hair color, bad hair on lots of the men, and yes stupid clothes, some of which looked like their "ess tet ic" and sometimes nothing like.  Not to mention the 70% that just dress in t-shirts and jeans and other normal slubby clothes.  I don't remember that all being chewed on. 

 

...

 

 

I don't care what she wears.  I don't care that she has been designing for plus women or that she's plus sized.  She's in a design competition where everyone is competing to design fashion for skinny models.  Her weight has shaped her identity some like many of the designers who have some sort of past of gay, foreign whatever.  I've been supportive of  them and I'm the same for Ashley. 

 

The problem is that Ashley was introduced discussing the fact that she became a designer because she couldn't find clothes to fit her plus-sized figure, showed her designs on plus-sized models to show that plus-sized women could wear them, and then cried because she felt as if her design career is the only thing that gives her a chance as a plus-sized girl with cognitive issues. We don't know anything else about her, just like we don't know anything about Vegas-man other than his pugnacity or Austin-girl other than that she feels oppressed as a rich thin blonde with safe taste.

 

I admit, there's a difference, since Ashley faces consequences other than hurt feefees from the issue she's presenting. Which is why I see her as more like Mondo, who made acceptance of his HIV status a factor in his season, or Justin, who saw deafness as far more of a barrier to his ability to become a designer than I ever entirely understood. If they want to represent, why not?

 

I don't necessarily think they need to play on their issue to succeed, but it's at least as valid a hook as looking like a weepy biker or being a hipster or having a famous brother, and the show has definitely gone there before.

 

I certainly don't expect better from them. And I definitely question whether they're going to give us anything more interesting (say, clothes that take more than six hours to plan, cut and sew) to talk about.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Julia

[needschocolate]

I just can't believe it.  Because she's fat everyone focuses on the way she dresses?  There have been so many past designers with ugly  tattoos and disgusting finger nails and very specific make up,  hair color, bad hair on lots of the men, and yes stupid clothes, some of which looked like their "ess tet ic" and sometimes nothing like.  Not to mention the 70% that just dress in t-shirts and jeans and other normal slubby clothes.  I don't remember that all being chewed on.  

 

Ashley's backstory was that she designs for Plus Size because she is plus-sized and was not happy with her choices.  I can understand people commenting that they don't think her designs are the best for the plus-sized woman based on the outfit she created or the ones she wears.  I think that if Pistachio said that she got into designing because she didn't like the way the clothes she saw in store fit petite women so she tries to design clothes petite women can wear,  people would discussing how a big, boxy outfit would not flatter a petite figure. 

 

I don't remember if it was on here or on TWoP, but I remember plenty of discussion about the way other designers dressed.  For some, the discussion was because there was such a disconnect between their designs and what they wore - for instance, in his first season, Mondo had such a way with matching patterns and colors on what he sent down the runway, but he looked so ridiculous in his little shorty shorts and odd color combinations that people commented on it often, and there was at least one woman who designed very nice outfits but people were flummoxed by her choice in lipstick (bright blue looks good on no one).  However, it seems to me that most of the criticism on how a designer dresses him/herself was aimed at designers that were not well liked.   

 

So, while Ashley's backstory leads into a discussion of whether her designs flatter the full figured, I feel that, for some (certainly not all, and, hopefully, not most) the criticism of Ashley stems from them being predisposed to not liking her because she is overweight.  They started off the season seeing her in a negative light due to their own prejudices against fat people, and, therefore, look for faults in what she does.  A person will be described much differently depending on whether they are being described by a friend of an enemy.  You best friend may be the life of the party who looks good for her age, but if the same person has an affair with your husband she becomes an desperate, over-botoxed, obnoxious drunk.

 

There have been a lot of comments on whether Ashley's design and the outfits she wore are flattering to plus-sized women.  The general "rules" are that overweight women shouldn't wear bright colors, bold prints, horizontal stripes, or anything that cuts them at the waist. Perhaps Ashley is looking to change those rules.  If you look in the plus size department, you see a lot of dark colors, baggy clothing, and oddly enough, stretchy clothing (most pants have spandex in them - I guess people think that if it feels tight it is holding them in and making them look thinner, but it seems to just highlight every bulge).  There have been comments that her outfits make her look bigger, but we don't know what she looks like in something else - maybe they do make her look thinner.  But, no matter how magical a designer is, he/she can't make a fat women look thin.  Fashion is geared toward super skinny models - walking clothes hangers.  The fashion industry and photoshop reflect and/or encourage the notion that "thinner = prettier." 

 

Maybe Ashley thinks that overweight women deserve to have clothing that is fun and not depressing.  Maybe the goal isn't to make them look thinner, maybe it is to give them options and not make them feel that they should just try to blend into the background as much as possible. 

[Kromm]

I just can't believe it.  Because she's fat everyone focuses on the way she dresses?  

Except... Ashley HERSELF talks from Moment #1 when we meet her in the Road To special about her size and how it's shaped her mission and aesthetic,  This isn't just meanies on the Internet picking on the poor big girl, because the lady herself has not only opened the door, she's standing IN the doorway, waving down all passers by and asking them to come over and talk with her about those issues.

 

That's not to say she hasn't also said that she can design for anyone, but you can't be much clearer than she has been that her identity and design inspiration was based around dressing people her size "better".

[StatMom]

I would like a better explanation as to why the mix up with the tool kits happened. What all is in a designer tool kit anyway? Also, are those contestants going to be relegated to borrowing things in future episodes?

I'd really like to read the instructions as well. And maybe Mood's got some of that stuff and they'll be allowed to use some of their challenge budget for that?

[aradia22]

 

We don't know anything else about her, just like we don't know anything [...] Austin-girl other than that she feels oppressed as a rich thin blonde with safe taste.

I didn't want this to get lost in the larger Ashley discussion because it's HILARIOUS.

 

Except... Ashley HERSELF talks from Moment #1 when we meet her in the Road To special about her size and how it's shaped her mission and aesthetic,

I will say that we can't discount producer prompting in getting her to talk about her size/weight so much.

[mansonlamps]

I'd really like to read the instructions as well. And maybe Mood's got some of that stuff and they'll be allowed to use some of their challenge budget for that?

I don't see why this is such an issue since the vast majority got it right. Three of them screwed up. Anyone who is a fan of the show would know that each designer has his or her own tool kit, we've seen people borrowing other people's stuff for years which wouldn't happen if they each were provided identical kits.

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say of course they'll be able to buy the stuff they need at Mood, why wouldn't they? It's just going to cut into their challenge budget once or twice.

[sinkwriter]

Frankly, I'm amazed this hasn't been an issue before this season. With all these people traveling, they can't possibly bring their kit on the plane with them (because sharp implements aren't allowed), so they must have to check the bag that has their tool kit and trust that the airline will get it there safely. But how many of us have had a bag show up late, or get lost? I'm really surprised we haven't heard someone say before this, "I'm still waiting for my suitcase to arrive! The airline promises me they'll get it to me by tonight/tomorrow."

Though in Merline's case, I think she should have found a way to pay the damn "excess baggage" fee. I mean, you're heading to a sewing competition! Surely getting your kit to NYC is more important than some of the clothes you brought.

[gryphon]

 

Kelly was a cute kid! But her voice.

I closed my eyes and she sounds exactly like Chloe (Susan's druggie kid sister) from ER.  Grates on my nerves to no end.

 

Can't stand Blake.....I like Ashely and I did kind of like David's caftan or whatever it was...maybe it was safe because it was made well, even though the fashion of it was rather Snuggy-esque. 

 

I always thought a designer's tools were like a chef's knives....they always go with the person.  I would love to read the instruction manual that the designers get telling them what they  can and cannot bring.  

[atir]

If the designers are concerned about flying with sharp objects, could they have UPSed them ahead of time? Or arrived a day early to go shop at Mood?

[needschocolate]

If the designers are concerned about flying with sharp objects, could they have UPSed them ahead of time? Or arrived a day early to go shop at Mood?

 

Or just put them in their checked baggage.  Merline said her bag was overweight and she should have left something else behind if she didn't want to pay extra.   It sounded to me like the other two just misunderstood the instructions.   

 

I wonder if this is the first time this has happened, or of it is just the first time we get to hear about it.

[mansonlamps]

Tim Gunn made kind of a big deal about saying it's the first time it ever happened for whatever that's worth. It's certainly possible someone's kit may have gotten there late via lost luggage, though, he emphasized that he was taking about people just not bringing one altogether.

Atir got it right, something that important could be overnighted to be extra safe. We used to do that for business meetings all the time.

[DHDancer]

Well, if "toolkit-gate" was supposed to be a running theme, it's failed.  I haven't seen any of the designers struggle due to lack of tools.  So it was a big fat producer-induced nothing IMO. I suggest we don't waste any more energy wondering about it.

 

First week's runway: pretty meh.  I haven't been able to understand the judges ratings for several seasons now so I don't even try to rationalize how they can put a dorky flowery romper and trollope slit-up-to-whoha dress in the safe category.  I rate the outfits for my own amusement only.  I didn't see any must-haves although if I was forced I'd take David's dress.  I liked Ashley's skirt, but thought the top was a fail: it looked like a rectangle attached just at the back: no shape at all to the front. And I guess I'm alone in quite liking at least the coloring of the teal hankerchief skirt and matching top: would have been better if the skirt had been a more flirty shape but I like the banding detail and thought the top fit well.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I don't remember if it was on here or on TWoP, but I remember plenty of discussion about the way other designers dressed.  For some, the discussion was because there was such a disconnect between their designs and what they wore - for instance, in his first season, Mondo had such a way with matching patterns and colors on what he sent down the runway, but he looked so ridiculous in his little shorty shorts and odd color combinations that people commented on it often, and there was at least one woman who designed very nice outfits but people were flummoxed by her choice in lipstick (bright blue looks good on no one).  However, it seems to me that most of the criticism on how a designer dresses him/herself was aimed at designers that were not well liked.

I do remember this happening every season actually and obviously more at TWOP since those discussions went back to season one of the show. Agree that in general the people criticized for their personal style are people who are disliked for other reasons.  Wendy Pepper being a good season one example of someone who was heavily criticized for her appearance and was hugely disliked generally.  Jeffrey Sebelia's neck tattoo, Blayne, Kenley, Mondo for sure and also April with her dyed-grey hair, Orange Josh and Laura Kathleen, Michelle's hair, and that's just what I can remember.  My own example from the other direction would be Fabio Costa who I think always had a fabulous personal style that very rarely was displayed in his designs.

Edited August 13, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[slothgirl]

If the designers are concerned about flying with sharp objects, could they have UPSed them ahead of time? Or arrived a day early to go shop at Mood?

I imagine they actually arrive earlier than we are led to believe. Although we see them "arriving", in order to make sure they are actually there ready to be filmed "arriving", they probably actually arrive at least the day before, if not more.

[slothgirl]

So, while Ashley's backstory leads into a discussion of whether her designs flatter the full figured, I feel that, for some (certainly not all, and, hopefully, not most) the criticism of Ashley stems from them being predisposed to not liking her because she is overweight.  They started off the season seeing her in a negative light due to their own prejudices against fat people, and, therefore, look for faults in what she does.

Personally, I think it's unfair and presumptuous to decide what other posters' motivations are for their opinions and then to accuse them of being prejudiced simply because they have an opinion that you may not share.

 

If someone has posted something that makes you believe that they are simply fat-shaming, then quote that part of their post and present an argument counter to whatever they are saying.

 

(Unless you weren't talking about posters here, but other contestants or the media or whatever... in that case, I'll shut up.)

 

But if you were referring to what you have read in this forum, throwing generalized shade at fellow posters just because they disagree about the merits of a designer's work, is offensive, IMO.

Edited August 13, 2015 by slothgirl

[slothgirl]

Wendy Pepper being a good season one example of someone who was heavily criticized for her appearance and was hugely disliked generally.  Jeffrey Sebelia's neck tattoo, Blayne, Kenley, Mondo for sure

Mondo was LOVED in his first season. But that didn't stop people from mentioning his ridiculous shorts.

 

This season is still too early to know who to like or dislike, IMO. With the exception of "I like making small people feel small" guy and Blake the bastard hate-child of special unicorn-boy snowflake and (fill in the blank with anyone who had an oversized ego), I have no idea how I feel about any of them yet.

 

I also remember having my 1st impressions change over the course of the season based on manipulations by the editing monkeys at the outset and then as the season went on. So I'm trying to avoid forming firm opinions yet (It's just that those 2 were SO unlikable in their talking heads!)

[yeswedo]

This forum is for everyone to share their own opinions about the show and not speculate about motivations for other posters. Civil disagreement about the show is allowed and welcome as it fosters interesting discussions.

 

If you come across a post you feel is out of step with this guidance please use the report button or PM the forum mods (aquarian1, yeswedo). Reporting will usually get a quicker response as all PTV mods see what's reported.

 

Thanks all!

[Nonlinear]

I just hope these designers produce interesting designs that is both intriguing and beautiful on their own. Then I won't mind the drama these contestants, judges, and show focuses on so much..

[Julia]

My own example from the other direction would be Fabio Costa who I think always had a fabulous personal style that very rarely was displayed in his designs.

 

One of the great moments of this show for me was the Match.com challenge Fabio eventually won, where he and Jay were assigned the gay couple. Zanna Roberts, wannabe fashion gatekeeper, trying to impress on the polyamorous guy in the skirt how you aren't going to get a second date if you aren't butch enough was comedy gold.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I'm torn on the plus size/flattering thing.  I mean, what do you consider flattering?  Clearly the girls on Jersey Shore consider those short spandex atrocities to be flattering. I have seen many people on FB wearing bikinis in protest of "they are not flattering on everyone."  It's an arbitrary distinction, this "flattering" thing.
 

I daresay that a few of the designers in previous seasons have not created the most flattering outfits but since the outfits were fashionable or the right style for the moment, they won (or were safe). 

 

So I'm waiting to see what Ashley designs.  Yes, her "woman" that she designs for in her mind is plus sized. I hope we see her shine.

[Julia]

I'm torn on the plus size/flattering thing.  I mean, what do you consider flattering? 

 

Well, not bikinis. And it's not that someone with a perfectly-toned body won't look beautiful in a bikini, but the bikini isn't really adding anything, just providing a frame for a perfectly-toned body. Flattering is when the lines and color of your clothes make you look as if you're amazing (and your outfit's nice too). JMO, the color blocking Ashley appears to default to make it easier for people to view you as a collection of parts rather than a whole, but that's a personal taste issue.

[Jextella]

Regarding Ashley, I loved her outfit and thought she deserved the win.  I really don't care if she designs for plus-sized people or model-thin people.  As long as the designs are good, I'm in.  I like that PR mixes up the pool of contestants to include real and diverse body types.  That is as it should be IMO.

[MelinaBallerina]

 

I haven't been able to understand the judges ratings for several seasons now so I don't even try to rationalize how they can put a dorky flowery romper and trollope slit-up-to-whoha dress in the safe category.

 

Possibly those travesties were considered "safe" just because they were #4 & 5 from the bottom and they only show the bottom 3 for judging.  I'd really like it if everyone would stay for 3-4 challenges, then have a large 4 cut episode.  It would give nervous nellies a bigger chance to get over the nerves and give us all a bigger feeling yea or nay for those first cuts.

[needschocolate]

I'd really like it if everyone would stay for 3-4 challenges, then have a large 4 cut episode.  It would give nervous nellies a bigger chance to get over the nerves and give us all a bigger feeling yea or nay for those first cuts.

 

 I like this idea,  Plus it would give them time to get used to the workroom and the time constraints. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

- Candice looks a bit like Corinne Drewery from the group Swing Out Sister.

Man, every time I see her for the rest if the season, I'm going to hear "Break Out" in my head!