S12.E11: Top 16 Perform Live + Elimination

[Electruck]

... deleting my post related to the cause of S3's Jaimie's ~2012 injury because while I thought it was mentioned on All the Right Moves or interviews/articles around the time, I can't find a citation for it and wish I hadn't mentioned it.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Electruck

[Prairie Fire]

I really liked Marissa's routine with Yorelis (in what turned out to be her finale).

 

Anyone else think they were trying to create a female version of the infamous Alex & Twitch routine? It had the same "street dancer tries to 'convert' stage dancer" theme, only this time with girls...and dubstep.

[Anothermi]

One reason I'm sympathetic to Kate's fear about the lifts (aside from hello, I don't want to be dropped from 6 ft up, either) is since she's part of Shaping Sound, she knows and dances with Jaimie Goodwin (S3), who nearly had to stop dancing because of an injury as a result of being lifted by someone inexperienced with lifts. If I knew someone who'd been through that, I'm sure I'd be a little nervous. I'm in awe of all of these dancers (and skaters and other performers) who can put fear aside and trust someone with their safety.

Could you explain what happened to Jaimie and when? I didn't know she had that experience. It wasn't when she was on this show was it?

[Electruck]

Could you explain what happened to Jaimie and when? I didn't know she had that experience. It wasn't when she was on this show was it?

I can't find a reference to the cause online and have deleted my post. I'm sorry! She had to have knee ligaments repaired around 2012.

[kechara]

Didn't someone get broken ribs from a lift? Possibly Jessica, Will's partner? I may be imagining that.

My kid skated pairs when he was a kid, and I've seen some nasty accidents. It isn't something to fool with, especially without training. Maybe dance isn't as potentially catastrophic, but I bet it is

Edited August 6, 2015 by kechara

[Carrots4]

Elektruck, I remember that story about Jaimie from the All the Right Moves show. Started watching it online after seeing it mentioned here, funnily enough. Midway through the season Travis mentions that he doesn't want to let Jaimie perform with the Shaping Sound company too soon because she had come back too soon from an injury in the past, he paired her with an untrained dancer, and that dancer accidentally wrecked Jaimie's knee. He felt responsible for the injury and didn't want to risk further damage by letting Jaimie dance before the doctors cleared her. It was fun seeing all the SYTYCD alumni in that show. For any who haven't seen it, a Google search of "All the right moves Travis Wall" brings up most of the episodes.

 

It is a little mindblowing how much abuse these dancers will let their bodies take before they take a break. I think there were three taped shoulders in the rehearsal footage this week, possibly even a knee brace, and still they're doing hours and hours of rehearsal a day.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Carrots4

[Morgan of Hed]

As the show ended everyone ran over to surround and comfort Marissa, while Asaf stood apart and alone, until finally Jim went over to talk to him.  Seems like no one will miss him much.

It was mildly hilarious to see him waiting to be eliminated, as he would randomly remember that he was supposed to show comradeship with his fellow dancers and awkwardly put his arm around Ariana, only to forget a bit later.

 

I also find it amusing that the judges complimented him on being there for his partner, when every single one of the dangerous lifts shown in the package was removed from the routine.

 

Good riddance.

[LadyMustang65]

But I am a cynic who finds it hard to believe Asaf grew a new personality in a week. (We did see him giving similar trouble in Vegas Week as well.) Changing your attitude so completely is hard to do in a lifetime, never mind one week while under stress.

 

No one said anything about him growing a "new personality."  Paula talked in Vegas week about how talented he was and what a great personality he had as reasons to put him through.  She felt he would be a good draw for the show. Travis talked in his blog about Asaf having an 'amazing' personality.  Even Kate said "he's a great guy" before she started whining about the lifts.  So there is no reason to think that he was generally a PITA or a difficult personality.  We did see him having issues centered around learning choreography and having a hard time stepping outside his comfort zone, but that is an attitude that could be easily changed by coming to see it as a challenge to be welcomed instead of an obstacle to be avoided.  We even saw him in one clip asking for more to do than just 'b-boy' stuff, which seems to indicate a change in attitude towards actively embracing learning new things, and that would make a huge difference in how choreographers viewed their experience with him. 

[LadyMustang65]

It was mildly hilarious to see him waiting to be eliminated, as he would randomly remember that he was supposed to show comradeship with his fellow dancers and awkwardly put his arm around Ariana, only to forget a bit later.

 

**It's a cultural thing.  Asaf is from Israel where they are not given to public displays of affection.  Even something as innocuous as holding someone's hand isn't generally done in public.  Touch is considered a very intimate thing.  I give him props for making the effort to try to fit in.  It would not be natural for him to put his arm around her.

 

I also find it amusing that the judges complimented him on being there for his partner, when every single one of the dangerous lifts shown in the package was removed from the routine.

 

**Being there for your partner means a lot more than just being able to do a difficult lift. 

[innocuouspuff]

Both Spencer and Dave pretty clearly described a personality issue, imo. Dave's quote is at around minute 33 of this week's Afterbuzz:

"He's super headstrong, and he feels like, this is better than what you're asking me to do. And it's like, really? *deep sigh*"

Around the same time they talk about Chris Scott dealing with Asaf refusing to b-boy as choreographed, and how it's part of the same stubbornness, that Chris didn't take it as a compliment either. The choreoraphers are there to choreograph.

The idea that Asaf just needed a tiny dash of positivity is what the edit tried to sell us but I think we have some evidence to suggest it's not what happened. No tea, no shade. I'm stubborn and opinionated too, still working on it and I'm older than Asaf.

Edited August 6, 2015 by innocuouspuff

[LadyMustang65]

Fear and insecurity often manifest as stubbornness.  I am not normally known as a stubborn person, but if I'm unsure of my footing and so reluctant about something, I can be as stubborn as all get-out until I let go of that fear and say to myself:  'just go for it and let the chips fall as they may.'  Once I give up that fear of failure or of looking stupid, I can go from stubborn to cooperative from resistant to all-in in a matter of minutes.  My whole family is like that.  I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure what happened, but after watching him the past few weeks, I am perfectly willing to believe he just needed a good pep talk.  It happens that way all the time in my family. 

[khyber]

I'm going to duck as I say this, but part of the attraction for me is the way he commands the dance and the way he focuses on the woman he's dancing with.  It's partly protective, partly sexual and very masculine.  There's a part of me that says "this is a man who will take care of me, cherish me and always be there for me".  Not logical in the slightest, but again a visceral thing.

You don't need to duck. This is exactly the mood that should be created.  Watch him in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Q2OjUzACc

[realdancemom]

I really liked Marissa's routine with Yorelis (in what turned out to be her finale).

 

Anyone else think they were trying to create a female version of the infamous Alex & Twitch routine? It had the same "street dancer tries to 'convert' stage dancer" theme, only this time with girls...and dubstep.

I wish Jaja or Lily would have done this routine with Yorelis.  Marissa did fine for a stage dancer.  However, I'm going to agree with Nigel that she was too stiff.  If you watch the Meet The Top 20 show and the group routine with Jaja, Lily, and the two B-Boys,  Jaja and Lily can hit it hard but there was fluidity in between the hard hits.  That's what was missing from Marissa.  She was also a little too high.

 

Alexia reminds me of Tiffany including her facial expressions.  She dances like a competition dancer.  They are cross-trained and will probably not fail unless it's a really different style like Bollywood.  However, they need maturity in their dancing.   But she'll probably go far because she will appeal to the tweens just like Tiffany did.

[akr]

Looked like Kate was lucky to get out of one of those failed lifts they showed without tearing something in her shoulder (he lost control, she fell out of it, but their arms were still tangled). Sure, he made sure she didn't fall on her head or anything, but he really didn't know how to save a failed lift safely, it seemed. 

 

Asaf did seem to be a narcissist (most guys that pretty are - it takes a certain level of narcissism to get there in the first place) but I also wonder if cultural styles might have been part of the disconnect - i.e., he thinks he's trying to be helpful in offering suggestions about how to accommodate his limitations, but to everybody else it's just meddling. Doesn't matter in the end, though, if he can't do the job well. I'm skeptical that he'll be motivated to get better at the stuff he doesn't do all that well, though. I'm not sure the interest is there. 

[Morgan of Hed]

 

It was mildly hilarious to see him waiting to be eliminated, as he would randomly remember that he was supposed to show comradeship with his fellow dancers and awkwardly put his arm around Ariana, only to forget a bit later.

It's a cultural thing.  Asaf is from Israel where they are not given to public displays of affection.  Even something as innocuous as holding someone's hand isn't generally done in public.  Touch is considered a very intimate thing.  I give him props for making the effort to try to fit in.  It would not be natural for him to put his arm around her.

 

I also find it amusing that the judges complimented him on being there for his partner, when every single one of the dangerous lifts shown in the package was removed from the routine.

Being there for your partner means a lot more than just being able to do a difficult lift.

Thanks for the info on Israeli culture.  I understand the partner thing, however the criticism in the package was directly towards the lifts and how uncomfortable Kate was.  Come performance day, no lifts of any significance.  So when the judges praise his partnering skills, it rings a little hollow to me.

[Rahul]

Asaf did seem to be a narcissist (most guys that pretty are - it takes a certain level of narcissism to get there in the first place) but I also wonder if cultural styles might have been part of the disconnect - i.e., he thinks he's trying to be helpful in offering suggestions about how to accommodate his limitations, but to everybody else it's just meddling.

Nah, assholes are universal. I've witnessed enough of his behavior and heard enough behind-the-scenes dish from the choreographers to know that Asaf is one.

[Morgan of Hed]

You don't need to duck. This is exactly the mood that should be created.  Watch him in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Q2OjUzACc

We were fortunate enough to attend a concert of Quartango, a Montreal-based tango group.  They have a pair of Argentine tango dancers (Roxana & Fabian Belmonte) that travel with them and dance along with some of their songs.  Fabian has very similar posture to Leonardo and carries that same attentive, caring attitude towards his partner throughout.

[Zuleikha]

Didn't someone get broken ribs from a lift? Possibly Jessica, Will's partner? I may be imagining that.

 

Jessica, who Mia accused of being lazy, danced with two or three broken ribs until medical caught the extent of her injury. I don't believe it's known whether or not it was from a specific lift or resulted from various moves. One of the All-star season dancers (Ashley, I think her name was) did injure her rib from a specific lift where she had to rest on her floating rib. She was partnered with... I want to say Ade but that's from memory and could be wrong... a trained, technical dancer who seemed to be a great lifter.

 

The idea that Asaf just needed a tiny dash of positivity is what the edit tried to sell us but I think we have some evidence to suggest it's not what happened.

I'm still waiting to hear from Cheesman or any of the other choreographers who worked with him after he's supposed to have turned his outlook around. It seems to me that all we're getting is confirmation of what we already knew: that Asaf was a PITA for the choreographers to work with in the first two weeks. 

 

I also still suspect some of the headstrongness was culture clash. Israelis often come across as rude to Americans. 

[realdancemom]

This is a different show but in DWTS, Hines dropped Kim during one of the lifts.  It was a very bad fall and it looked like her neck hit the floor.  That must have been really scary because she could have easily been paralyzed.  Both Hines and Asaf are big guys so it's not a strength issue.  Both the lifter and liftee have to learn how to properly do certain lifts.  I don't blame Kate for being scared.  Marissa also expressed concerns last week when she was paired with Asaf.

 

I think some choreographers put too many lifts and not enough dancing.  I mentioned this when Jonathan and Oksana choreographed the trio salsa.  Dorian Sanchez does the same thing with disco. 

[Pattycake2]

My only comment - JJ and Leonardo.  Leonardo was like a panther, but there was no heat from JJ and her expression never varied. Not good.  

[ToxicUnicorn]

I also wonder if cultural styles might have been part of the disconnect - i.e., he thinks he's trying to be helpful in offering suggestions about how to accommodate his limitations, but to everybody else it's just meddling.

 

I also still suspect some of the headstrongness was culture clash.

I strongly suspect this, too.  I can think of a couple other speculations: if Asaf hasn't worked with a choreographer or in a(n American) studio before, he may not understand too well what his social role should be, and also I think people have very different ideas about how one indicates respect.  I have one side of the family who thinks that showing respect means to shut up and smile and agree with whomever is speaking, while the other side thinks that it is a mark of respect to try to give as strong of a counterargument as you can (if you don't respond, you're not dignifying the speaker with an answer, and if you really respect them, you'll argue that much more vigorously).

 

I thought it was interesting, though, that the judges' comments were that they thought Asaf was extremely creative.  One might read that as a veiled insult, but I actually think that's a very nice compliment, and probably deserved, based on his audition. 

 

Jessica, who Mia accused of being lazy, danced with two or three broken ribs until medical caught the extent of her injury.

 

Ouch.  I did not know that about Jessica.  As for Mia - she may be a brilliant choreographer, but she's just doesn't have a good track record of thinking things through, does she.  Sure, dancers want to get on the show TO BE LAZY.  *headdesk*

[Shades of Red]

Just reswatched and have to say I was struck by the ease and comfort of Edson and Megz with each other when standing next to Cat. I know the dancers support each other but sometimes when waiting for their remarks they look uneasy making physical contact with each other. It's almost as if it's okay while dancing but then have to distance when not performing.

[Pallida]

I'm thinking I need to do a marathon of Yorelis videos. I find her to be the weakest of the remaining street dancers. I don't like her knees when she's doing hip-hop/street. Maybe it's a subjective preference?

I want Jim to be my best friend and we can talk about bubble baths. I also enjoy watching him dance.

[Zuleikha]

I finally found a clip of the rehearsal footage with Asaf and Kate, and I'm feeling more solid in being mad that Marissa was let go over Kate. Yes, lifts can be dangerous. But in the clip we saw, while Asaf didn't have the lift down, Kate also didn't look in real danger. Asaf set her down on her feet. It looked like fairly typical learning to do a lift stuff to me, especially since contestant interviews let us know that the footage we saw would have come from the first 1.5 hours of learning the routine. Although I think Cheesman should have been able to modify the lift to be less scary to Kate but still have more of a wow factor than what we saw in the final routine (and mats for practice!), I also think Kate seemed prima donna-ish in her one-on-one with Travis. It seemed to me like she wasn't willing to try, and I think that was there in the final performance, too, where she just seemed checked out (while Asaf, to his credit, was doing his best to sell the character and connection). Marissa obviously wasn't as good as Yorelis, but it's not like Marissa was bad and at least she fully committed to her performance.

[ToxicUnicorn]

From the first performance show, I thought Kate stood out as a dancer.  I often gravitate toward solid studio technique ("studio", for lack of a better word), and her long lines certainly helped.  However, Marissa was good too, and had so much more personality.  While my eye didn't go to Marissa immediately, I usually noticed her, and I certainly enjoyed her duet this week far more than I have enjoyed Kate in any of her small group performances.

 

Of the three stage dancers in danger this week, I would've let Kate go.  It surprises me that I think Derek has more potential than Kate, but he seems like he has further upside as a complete performer to me than she does.

 

I definitely would have kept Marissa.  Boo, Ameriker.

[St. Claire]

I definitely would have kept Marissa.  Boo, Ameriker.

 

I would have kept Marissa as well. There is some unfairness that the viewer voting produces the lowest three dancers in each category, but that the subsequent Twitter and judge input may keep the lowest two of those three. So, the dancer that goes home may be the one who scored best of the three, but just didn't get the same voting during the Twitter portion a week later. It's not as big of a thing in early weeks (being number 18 of 20, 17 of 19...) but within a few weeks, you have the potential for the solid, middle scorer to go home while the rock bottom stays.

[innocuouspuff]

I'm still waiting to hear from Cheesman or any of the other choreographers who worked with him after he's supposed to have turned his outlook around. It seems to me that all we're getting is confirmation of what we already knew: that Asaf was a PITA for the choreographers to work with in the first two weeks.

I also still suspect some of the headstrongness was culture clash. Israelis often come across as rude to Americans.

May be starting to repeat myself but I was more addressing the question of whether the original problem was small or large. The show's edit gave me the impression Asaf was just a loveable troublemaker, tbh. So when we found out two of his choreographers were actually still seething about the experience weeks later, that's a different thing and gives me a different picture of the hill he had to climb.

Culture may certainly have been some of it. One choreographer mentioned the English language thing also.

[realdancemom]

From the first performance show, I thought Kate stood out as a dancer.  I often gravitate toward solid studio technique ("studio", for lack of a better word), and her long lines certainly helped.  However, Marissa was good too, and had so much more personality.  While my eye didn't go to Marissa immediately, I usually noticed her, and I certainly enjoyed her duet this week far more than I have enjoyed Kate in any of her small group performances.

 

Of the three stage dancers in danger this week, I would've let Kate go.  It surprises me that I think Derek has more potential than Kate, but he seems like he has further upside as a complete performer to me than she does.

 

I definitely would have kept Marissa.  Boo, Ameriker.

I agree with you. I think Kate has beautiful lines but it is hard to connect with her. She doesn't seem to fully commit. Previously, I was just being nit-picky with marissa and her hip-hop. I actually thought she did fine considering her training. I don't think Kate could have done that routine at all. I have to admit that I really didn't care about either one since marissa seemed too much of a gymnastics dancer to me. But between the two of them, I would have picked Marissa. She tried to have a positive attitude when she danced with asaf last week. I thought the judges were too harsh with her. A lot of dance sport dancers play with the audience and judges. But I also saw her look at asaf too.

I also prefer Derek over Kate. He also lacks performance wise but he is a great technician.

[TrudyC]

... deleting my post related to the cause of S3's Jaimie's ~2012 injury because while I thought it was mentioned on All the Right Moves or interviews/articles around the time, I can't find a citation for it and wish I hadn't mentioned it.

I just finished binging ATRM, and Travis mentions, more than once, that he paired Jaime with someone who wasn't properly trained in lifts, and she was injured as a result of that. 

[traboule]

I would have kept Marissa as well. There is some unfairness that the viewer voting produces the lowest three dancers in each category, but that the subsequent Twitter and judge input may keep the lowest two of those three. So, the dancer that goes home may be the one who scored best of the three, but just didn't get the same voting during the Twitter portion a week later. It's not as big of a thing in early weeks (being number 18 of 20, 17 of 19...) but within a few weeks, you have the potential for the solid, middle scorer to go home while the rock bottom stays.

 

Yeah I get what you're saying, but it's tricky, because since all the dancers have to perform again, the show needs to make sure that their most recent performances count for something, or else it seems unfair that the bottom two dancers have to dance without hope of earning a save.

[fallaway]

Finally got to watch the show. So glad the lifts were rechoreographed from Kate and Asaf's routine. I competed at the top level with many heavy lifts, and it takes great understanding on the part of both people, and working together to get timing and familiarity over time, to really safely do overhead lifts.

 

Marissa is a very strong dancer, but that routine really showed that she holds her ribcage far too ribcage. Her skill in gymnastics was probably a factor there. That was an unfortunate dance for her - really showed that deficit.

 

Gaby is wonderfully cross-trained. Hailey is amazing in jazz/contemp styles, really stands out by knowing how to hit. Didn't outshine Jaja consistently though, which was interesting. I'm so impressed with Jaja. Hailey did a great job with the strong shapes, but then when the choreography passed through a typical jazz/contemp shape, she would suddenly get soft and elegant, which interrupted the flow of the piece. That was a good one though.

 

Loved the Megz piece. She and Asaf suffer from hunched shoulders and concave torso out of orce of habit, but her dancing is passionate, authentic, and beautiful.

[Pemyquid]

Can we please get rid of Sean Cheeseman? He's the kiss of death, always puts his dancers in red and makes them do meaningless, disjointed, unattractive choreography. I thought the routine that took out Missy several seasons ago was hideous, but that was light years better than the abomination poor Kate and Asaf were saddled with.

The good? Alexia and Neptune - they finally did something interesting with the wall; and Gaby and Virgil - Gaby was flawless, even making her lifts with a man a head shorter than her look graceful; and Yorelis and Marissa - nothing earthshaking, but nice and tight, and Marissa kept up nicely.

The mediocre? Jim and Arianna - yawn, seen it a billion times, plus I enjoyed that version of EWTRTW waaaay better over on that other dance show, plus the discs reminded me of the bed dance. What's with all the monochromatic, shades of grey (pun not intended) or beige lighting/costuming this season? It's like they have a quota where only allowed to use color in one routine per night.

They did this in Megz and Edson's routine as well, which was fine but felt manipulative to me with the prop, and I think the choreo was watered down for her, and Edson literally and figuratively carried her through that routine. Also blah? Jaja and Hailee. I understand Hailee has been chosen as this season's contempo girl by TPTB, and she was excellent in the robot routine last week, but this time around I was watching Jaja.

The bad? JJ and Leonardo and that mess of a tango. Compare it to his tango with Mackenzie (I think) and they are worlds apart. And of course, Kate and Asaf. There was no saving that.

Did I miss anyone?

[crowceilidh]

 

Gaby and Virgil - Broadway - Al Blackstone.  What a cute throw back number.  Again, I'm charmed more by the choreography than the dancers.  Gaby is not growing the way the others are.  She seems a little static.  Virgil was great - he was dancing so much bigger than she was -- he was all joy, she was all control.

To be fair, if you watch her choreo so much effort is being put into keeping the top of her head apparently below the top of Virgil's head that she has a much tougher job than he does.  I find it unsurprising that her control was occasionally showing.