S01.E08: Episode 8

[rklanza]

It's so amazing how much the setting adds to the show. Remarkable.

[JenMcSnark]

Wait, did George actually return Francis' money?? I thought he simply forgave Francis' debts to the tune of 1200 pounds?  Either way, it was designed to make him look good in front of Elizabeth. 

 

I believe he said that he was forgiving some of the debts, to which Francass looked quite relieved and grateful.  But then George said he was also giving them 1200 lbs and they were overcome with joy.  Assholes.  I do like Elizabeth better now though.

 

I have to say, having never before seen the actress who plays Demelza, I am completely in love with her!  She's gorgeous and plays the character so well.  Love her and Ross together.  Those crazy kids.  

 

Speaking of kids, I cried when Julia died.  Aiden T knocked that out of the park.  

 

I, too, thought it was strange how Elizabeth said "your child" but I think that was part of showing that the character still had hopes that Ross might love her.  She did well in that scene.  I believed that she just lost her last hope in Ross's affections.  Maybe that is what will push her into Warleggen's arms. Yuck. 

 

edited: because I do know how to spell grateful and it's not greatful. :-)

Edited August 4, 2015 by JenMcSnark

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the finale!

 

Poldark Comes Full Circle / Ross ends the season in at least as much trouble as he began it.

[shipmate]

George is a little sh*t and every time I look at him I see the character of Rumpelstiltskin in the Shrek movies.

 

Edited August 4, 2015 by shipmate

[dubbel zout]

After hearing Verity gush that they had only met a dozen times before they were married

 

I don't think that's so unusual for the era. Single men and women couldn't spend time together for too long before an "understanding" was expected. Dating as we know it didn't exist. Unless you grew up with your spouse, I think most couples didn't know each other well before getting married.

Edited August 4, 2015 by dubbel zout

[GHScorpiosRule]

Um, no.  I actually thought he was good.  IMO he elevated from "good" to "great."  I like to see subtlety and complexity and IMO he brought both to that scene.

 

Agreed. I mean, I know I've said that in the first half of the season, Ross had only two expressions: stoic and anger. As the season progressed, I saw more expressions and I literally could feel my heart break as he held Julia and that tear ran down his face. Beautifully done and so very heartbreaking.

 

I have no use for the Warleggans.  And I had no problem with Ross telling George that he wouldn't have saved his cousin. None.

[justmehere]

If Ross did respond positively to George -- not that he has any obligation to do so -- George might be a very different person. He's not very strong in himself, and that early comment about Ross doing and saying what he wanted was very telling. What I wonder is if it's just the specific trait that he wants -- hoping Ross' independent nature might rub off on him -- or if it's Ross himself and his actual view of life that George wants to emulate. I don't know. He's shown that he is capable of compassion, but reacting like a hurt child and ruining the person who won't accept him is hardly the way to get what he wants.

 

As inappropriate as his overture to Elizabeth was, it was at least an act of his own volition. When he was walking toward Trenwith, there was this clear moment of decision that yes, he was going to act on his own behalf. Having little or no experience, he's made an interesting first choice, but I appreciated the independent decision. I'm not apologizing for George -- I don't see him turning good-guy anytime soon -- but he's not one-note after all.  Another question I have: Does his comment that he's not siding with any man, hopefully his uncle/whatever included, now mean that he's not only going to step out on his own but also will be so selfish that he loses whatever compassion he had? I hope not. But the story of a man trying to find his own way amid a variety of pressures and challenges is Ross' tale. I suppose George could try to follow his example from afar... yeah, I won't hold my breath.

 

On a separate note, I love that Prudie went from resenting Demelza to being good friends with her. Judd is still a cantankerous mule.

 

P.S. That mention of Wheal Grace has got to come back into play somehow. There was a comment that most of the shafts are underwater (with the tides, I presume), so maybe it's harder to mine than Wheal Leisure. Something to pursue once successful but too challenging to start with. Still -- didn't Mark also mention gold?

Edited August 5, 2015 by justmehere

[chocolatetruffle]

Oh, I forgot to mention that. Mark's comment to Ross was that there was a huge load of copper at Wheal Grace just under the water. Ross doesn't mention it again, but I hope they revisit it next season.

[Llywela]

P.S. That mention of Wheal Grace has got to come back into play somehow. There was a comment that most of the shafts are underwater (with the tides, I presume), so maybe it's harder to mine than Wheal Leisure. Something to pursue once successful but too challenging to start with. Still -- didn't Mark also mention gold?

Not gold, copper - he said he saw a vein of copper so bright it shone like gold, or words to that effect. Cornish mines were almost exclusively tin and copper (you'd want Wales for gold).

 

It wouldn't be tides causing the flooding of the mine but rainwater - it's a very wet part of the world, with a lot of wide open shafts - plus often the mines were extremely deep, so you'd have rising groundwater to contend with as well. It's one of the reasons Grambler couldn't re-open, even if Francis had asked for it back from the Warleggans - a big, sprawling mine like that, after lying derelict for so long, would cost too much to drain and make useable again, and as it was close to being worked out anyway wouldn't be worth the investment. Some mines in the area had a degree of natural drainage, but others were completely reliant on pumping gear, which cost a lot of money to fuel and maintain. So therein lies the dilemma - if Mark really did see copper in Wheal Grace, could Ross raise the capital to re-open and drain the mine, and would it return the investment if he did? It would be a gamble - but opening Leisure was also a gamble, and it paid off.

[justmehere]

Thanks for the clarification and the explanation, Llywela.

[Milz]

Slightly OT, but if you want to see how rainwater can flood a mine google "The Big Hole, Kimberley"

[HoodlumSheep]

Finally caught up! Woo!

I might be mixing eps 7 & 8 together because they were shown together, but here I go:

I thought the mine mishap/collapse would have been more dramatic. I knew they were saving it for the finale! They played that creepy music every time they were in the mine; it was only a matter of time.

George, George, George. If you want to be friends with everyone (like Ross), maybe you should stop. being. so. evil.

Also, arresting Ross is surely going to get you on Elizabeth's good side ;).

Our family has had fun predicting who would die throughout the series. We predicted that either Demelza or Julia (or both) would bite the dust from the sickness. Poor Julia.

We've also predicted that Francis would jump off the cliff because he's been a disaster, but now that George has voiced wanting Elizabeth, we expect him to push Francis off the cliff.

We have such evil imaginations at our house.

Happy for Verity.

I have determined that Grandma Poldark (that's just what we call her) will outlive them all and become ruler of the area. She's awesome.

Is it wrong that I hope ross goes to jail just so he can come back and pull a Count of Monte Cristo?

[chocolatetruffle]

George, George, George. If you want to be friends with everyone (like Ross), maybe you should stop. being. so. evil.

 

 

BWAAAHAAHAAHAAA!!  Now I know not to be drinking coffee while reading your posts, HoodlumSheep.

[dubbel zout]

I have determined that Grandma Poldark (that's just what we call her) will outlive them all and become ruler of the area. She's awesome.

 

I love that she's at the give-no-fucks stage of life and just tells it like it is. I hope she doesn't die too soon into the second season. I want to see her torture Francis a bit longer.

Edited August 6, 2015 by dubbel zout

[Nampara]

Our family has had fun predicting who would die throughout the series. We predicted that either Demelza or Julia (or both) would bite the dust from the sickness. Poor Julia.

 

The loss of Julia was terrible, and was very poignantly dramatized, but I would not want to live in a literary world in which Demelza is killed off.  I'd have to somehow wipe from my memory the experience of ever having watched the program or read the books.

 

I think Series 1 reflects the fact that Winston Graham, though a lively and very entertaining writer, does have what I consider an inordinate fondess for killing characters. Joshua (off camera), Lord Bassett, Andrew's first wife (off camera), Uncle Charles, Jim, Keren, Julia, Matthew, just to start the saga.

[Nidratime]

Actually, I think that's pretty realistic considering the lack of good medical care, sanitation, the poverty, active outdoors life, let alone the dangerous activities/work some of these people pursue. The only two people you mention whose death was somewhat purposeful and could've been prevented is Andrew's wife and Keren.

[HoodlumSheep]

I love that she's at the give-no-fucks stage of life and just tells it like it is. I hope she doesn't die too soon into the second season. I want to see her torture Francis a bit longer.

I, too, hope that she lives. You'd think her oldness would have made her the most susceptible to the illness, but she was just like, "Screw you, illness! My awesomeness cannot be hindered by your feeble attempts to take my life!"

I loved how she continued to chew everyone out despite them being in the the process of, you know, practically dying.

She reminds me of Grandpa Gustafson from Grumpy Old Men. She probably has bacon for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Edited August 6, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Nampara]

Actually, I think that's pretty realistic considering the lack of good medical care, sanitation, the poverty, active outdoors life, let alone the dangerous activities/work some of these people pursue. The only two people you mention whose death was somewhat purposeful and could've been prevented is Andrew's wife and Keren.

Very generally, I would describe the Poldark narratives as incident-driven, meaning that the story is pushed forward by having things happen to people, and more often than not bad things. Many of these are deaths, as episode 8 shows.

And the death toll is just beginning. :)  In later series, presumably we'll see off Francis, Agatha, Dwight and Caroline's child, Hugh, Osborne, Elizabeth, Jeremy, Clowance's husband, Valentine, etc. You have to admit that it was pretty sadistic to bump off Jeremy 40 years after the character was created as a consolation for both readers and his parents!

[dubbel zout]

She probably has bacon for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

And drinks alcohol every chance she gets.

[Nampara]

I loved how she continued to chew everyone out despite them being in the the process of, you know, practically dying.

She reminds me of Grandpa Gustafson from Grumpy Old Men. She probably has bacon for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

Using "chew" in connection with Aunt Agatha is most appropriate. Whenever the character is shown at a table, she's eating like a horse! (E.g., end of episode 2; episode 4 Christmas dinner.) I think it's intended as a running joke. Agatha blames Uncle Charles' diet for his heart problems and notes that she herself is an ascetic eater, but in fact she likes nothing better than a full plate in front of her.

[dubbel zout]

Whenever the character is shown at a table, she's eating like a horse!

 

"I have the appetite of a 20-year-old girl!" Never change, Aunt Agatha.

[skyways]

Aunty Agatha to Ross,' Have we been introduced?' I seem to remember you are related to me', - I don't remember whether it was at Geoffrey Charles's christening or Charles death.

[Haleth]

Omigosh, I finally got to watch and the scene where Ross told Demelza that Julia had died was heart wrenching. I was weeping along with them. So sad. I hope their shared grief brings them back together. (Can't wait for season 2 and I hope to find the books in the meantime.)

[TidalCreek]

And drinks alcohol every chance she gets.

 

I see no problem here. :)

[magdalene]

Whenever a child gets very ill on a historical drama my default is to assume the child is a goner - child mortality rates being what they were in the good ol' days.

 

But Julia's death was a tear jerker for sure.

[DorianGray]

I held it together pretty okay until I saw Ross walking that slow, sad walk with that little casket on his shoulder.  And then all of the people at the churchyard, with Francis reaching out to Ross.  Uuuaaaaagh--I choked and was a goner.

[Eolivet]

Wow, that was rough. Now I want to watch the Spanish Flu episode of Downton to cheer myself up (though Aunt Agatha at dinner reminded me of the Dowager Countess' "half the guests were dead" speech). I don't watch a lot of period drama, so I can't remember the last time I've seen a child die onscreen (ish). Well-acted, but really tough to watch.

 

I don't understand how Ross was supposed to realize that George's one nice comment about his daughter dying was supposed to indicate they should become allies or the absolutely ludicrous comment (based on evidence from the show we've seen) that they're in any way alike. If I recall correctly, this is the guy who:

-Has been trying to buy out Ross' mine by buying out shares from his investors

-Brought in a card shark to cheat Francis and basically stole one of their family mines

-Bankrupted Ross' smelting company investors by calling in their loans

-Caused the dissolution of Ross' smelting company, thus

-Caused Ross to take a mortgage out on his house, endangering his livelihood, and the security of his family

-Then tried to buy out his own shares in the mine to ruin him yet again

 

(Yes, I realize that Francis through Demelza's actions "leaked" the information that caused much of this to happen, but the fact is that George made it happen)

 

Yet, he makes one mildly understanding comment about the man's daughter dying -- and Ross is somehow supposed to divine that George wants to turn over a new leaf and be friends?

 

As some on the Internet might say: Da fuq?!

 

George's sympathy for Julia's death reminds me of the comment about serial killers lying about their humanity because they let some victims go. He gets zero sympathy from me until I see some amends to any Poldarks that aren't made by decision centers south of his waist. His whining about "Wahhh, they don't like us because we used to be poooor" is so disingenuous when he's referring to the guy who does his own farm work, takes meals amongst his workers and lives in a slightly large shack.

 

Here's hoping for a sliver of sunshine amidst what seem to be the perpetually darkened (yet well-acted) skies of this show next season.

[Nidratime]

Since it's been a little slow on the board in the past week or so, I thought I'd post an unfortunately long observational post I made involving this episode that I also included on another board. (So, if you've seen it somewhere, I apologize.)

 

George's Two Declarations:

 

I was curious about why George would make his move, declaring his interest in Elizabeth towards the end of episode 8. He has complimented her in the past, for sure, but to make such a move towards a married woman with a young family seems bizarre. A woman with a husband who is financially strapped is not the same as a widow. And what caused him to do it right at that time? He told Elizabeth he had just come off the beach where the wreck washed up. What happened there? Other than assessing the situation and collecting his cousin’s body, George ran into Ross. He offered condolences on Julia’s death and I’m guessing he expected Ross to finally be less hostile than he’s been in the past, to be in a different head space due to his personal loss. Instead, Ross once again showed his contempt for and continued hostility to George, via his total lack of sympathy regarding Matthew Samson.

 

Frustrated, that’s when George makes his first declaration of the day … to Ross. George says that *Ross* insists they be enemies when, to George's mind, they have a lot in common and could be allies! Ross bites back, God forbid I should ever be so desperate.

 

The things that stand out to me is that George says that *Ross* insists on being enemies, despite the fact that George and his uncle have done numerous things to destroy Ross’ business and hurt the Poldark family. Which came first? Ross “insisting they be enemies” or George lashing out in response? How long has it been going on? And, how much does George’s uncle factor into it? If George wanted to be “friends” with Ross, surely he’d try and rein in his uncle instead of going along with his uncle's plans to destroy, if not control, all competitors.

 

Then George says that he and Ross have a lot in common. How so? Previously, George has voiced his admiration, sometimes reluctantly, of Ross — of his indifference to social conventions, to rules, to other's opinions. He sees Ross as a leader of men, someone others admire, if not emulate. Someone who takes action and goes his own way in the world. Sure, the willingness of the Warleggans to “play dirty,” in business against those of a certain class *is* a challenge to the order of things. Is a challenge to the rules. The Warleggans *are* upstarts. But, they *are not* — or at least George is not — indifferent to social conventions or why would it be so important to be accepted, to dress and act like people in “polite” society? Nor does he appear indifferent to the opinion of others or why would it matter to him what anyone thinks — especially what Ross thinks, a person others in that very social circle have criticized for being so contrary to his own class, so disrespectful of it? So, Ross and George definitely *do not* have that in common. Ironically, just in terms of not giving a crap, Ross has more in common with George’s uncle, than George. George, is more like Francis, in that he is living in the shadows of a man who is made of steelier stuff and is expecting George to man up and be as cold and calculating as he is.

 

And, why would George suggest that he and Ross could be allies. (Curious that he didn’t use the word, friends, although maybe that’s because that’s not enough.) Is it that George feels, more than just being polite and friendly with each other, if I had an alliance with Ross, people would respect me … or maybe I just wouldn’t care, like Ross doesn’t care? Ross is someone who others accept if not look to for leadership *in spite of* his disregard for rules and his blatant opinions about the injustice of his own class. Being accepted by Ross is one thing, but being in league with him would be like George having his cake and eating it too, i.e., George can be “the outcast” and be accepted, which is quite the trick. The problem is, George’s uncle has absolutely no interest in being allies with anyone. He wants to control everyone and everything and — as George instinctively knows — you don’t control men like Ross, you can only be in league with them if they allow it. So, allies (partners) is the best you can expect, until you can gain enough respect and trust from them to be otherwise. And, by the way, I don’t think George’s actions are *that* outwardly calculating since, apparently, this has been going on since they were boys in school. But, as I said, George wants this relationship and senses that it can’t be “business as usual."

 

Anyway. it’s after that rejection that George walks past Trenwith, stops himself and appears to make some sort of decision to visit, like he had suddenly had some purpose other than politeness. But, how could he know that only Elizabeth would greet him and he wouldn’t be seeing Francis? He couldn’t. So what was he actually planning to do or say before just Elizabeth showed up in the room? It’s a puzzlement … and very lucky for him. He says to her, these are strange times and we should no longer stand on ceremony. Sooner or later, we have to declare for one side or another. He specifies that he is not declaring for any side, or at least for no man — implying he’s declaring for *her.* And, that he no longer wants his feelings or intentions misunderstood.

 

Interesting that George should make this move right after his latest meeting with Ross who, again, pushes George away and shows him only contempt — once again Ross “misunderstands George’s feelings and intentions.” I’m not sure we’re supposed to make that leap. I’m not suggesting that George is replacing Elizabeth for Ross, after being shunned by Ross. However, the continued rejection probably was an impetus — a push to make sure he is not misunderstood *on this front* as he has been — George feels — on the other front. And, also an impetus to take action, to be a man of action, as Ross is, and stop hoping things go your way, stop being conventional and doing what society expects. I do wonder ... if Ross had suddenly been more sympathetic to George on that beach, more tempered by his daughter's loss, would George have still gone to Trenwith? Did the continued rejection and “misunderstanding” put George in that head space, put it front and center? (Or, was it just the fact of facing unexpected loss — someone losing a daughter, someone losing a cousin — that made him act?)

 

It is ironic that it’s George, and not Ross, who breaks societal rules and declares for Elizabeth — and doesn't even let her marital status stand in the way.

[LJones41]

As far as I'm concerned, Ross is still in love with Elizabeth. And he is in love with Demelza. I believe Verity's comment in Episode 5 is right on target. And audiences are going to see this play out in future episodes to come.

One more thing . . . the "POLDARK" series is a historical drama with romance, history, action, etc. It is not based on a series of romance novels. Ross and Demelza are not going to spend the rest of the series being the perfectly married couple. Winston Graham was too good of a writer for that.

[CTrent29]

Yet, he makes one mildly understanding comment about the man's daughter dying -- and Ross is somehow supposed to divine that George wants to turn over a new leaf and be friends?

 

 

 

All Ross had to do was be polite.  Was it really beneath him to do so?  Even for one lousy moment?  George took the time to put aside their conflict to offer genuine condolences over Julia's death and Ross responded with a rather impolite and rather gross comment about Matthew Sanson's death.  I found it offensive, even if I do not regard George as a nice guy.  Ross merely proved that his comments about being a "gentleman" was utter bullshit.

[tessaforever]

Having lost a baby at 6 months of pregnancy, this episode was really hard for me. I try to stay unspoiled (I only started watching Poldark recently) but I kind of wish I had known what to expect. That said, it was so very well done, and Demelza for me is literally the heart and soul of the story. She made their grief so believable. 

I too found it very odd that George thought it was some kind of noble gesture to "declare" for a married woman. One just did not do that kind of thing back then. It was a meaningless declaration, since Elizabeth is not going to divorce Francis or become George's mistress. So weird. 

The "save someone's life and get back in their good graces" is a common enough trope (Anne of Green Gables!) but I feel like that would have been enough to reconcile Ross & Francis. I don't feel like Julia should have had to give her little life for that. 

I can't figure out the timeline of this show, because Geoffrey Charles and Julia never seemed to get any older, whereas most TV babies seem to go from infancy to toddlerhood in the blink of an eye. 

[Kim0820]

On 8/2/2015 at 11:00 PM, WatchrTina said:

Not gonna lie -- I hated most of this episode.  The Warleggens are too one-dimensionally evil and I find it hard to believe that they can ruin someone by just calling in a loan for no reason.  Was banking really so capricious and screwed up back then?  There are other bankers -- can't they go to one of them and refinance the loan?

 

 

 

 

I noticed that about the Warleggan loans too.  What is the point of borrowing money in any amount when the entire amount can be called in due at any time, with no even to of default?  It would only even begin to work if you had that amount of money anyway, in which case, you don't need to borrow it.  Sheesh.  And the Warleggans would be hated and no one would bank with them.   

 

[Kim0820]

On 8/2/2015 at 11:00 PM, WatchrTina said:

I'll probably watch the next season but right now I don't much care about it.  I just hope Verity has the good sense to stay on board her ship with her husband like Anne Elliot at the end of Jane Austen's "Persuasion."

I like the comparison to Anne Elliott Wentworth; who followed in the footsteps of her sister-in-law Mrs. Croft.  She preferred to sail with her husband rather than stay home on shore waiting.  She spent a winter on shore at Deal and that was the only time she ever fancied herself unwell!