S01.E08: Episode 8

[Pogojoco]

 

In the final episode of the series, George expands the Warleggan empire, launching a new ship and bankrupting Carnmore. Ross blames Francis, but when Francis and Elizabeth fall sick with a life-threatening illness, Demelza risks her own life to save them.

 

[Pogojoco]

This was tweeted earlier by the BBC One account. 

 

https://twitter.com/BBCOne/status/592434446336401408

 

When I checked it earlier, it was 718 retweets vs 35 favourites. 

[NumberCruncher]

Wow, this episode was just heartbreaking but so very well done.  All the performances were spot on.  Can't wait for S2!

[Big Bad Wolf]

This was tweeted earlier by the BBC One account. 

 

https://twitter.com/BBCOne/status/592434446336401408

 

When I checked it earlier, it was 718 retweets vs 35 favourites. 

LOL IRL at that.

 

I am so this show's bitch. That season finale was absolutely breathtaking on every level. I'll have more to say when I've had some time to emotionally recover and form some coherent thoughts. Right now all I've got pretty much is: Aidan Turner is a god, and Eleanor Tomlinson a goddess. Spectacular.

[Llywela]

This was tweeted earlier by the BBC One account. 

 

https://twitter.com/BBCOne/status/592434446336401408

 

When I checked it earlier, it was 718 retweets vs 35 favourites. 

Man, they really are playing it up as a love triangle, aren't they. Looking at that tweet, you'd think the whole season had been about whether Ross preferred/would choose one woman over another, when that isn't the story at all!

 

I remain in two minds over the whole season. It's been very pretty and the actors have given it their all, but overall I'm more disappointed than delighted with this adaptation. It's been decent, but on the clunky side, lacking nuance and depth - and could have been so, so much better. Also, while it remained faithful to the source material in many ways, at least on the surface, it did make a lot of subtle but very significant changes - changes which may not have altered the overall plot, but which do make a big difference to our understanding of the characters.

 

But having said all that, I did cry when Julia died and I knew it was coming!

[Pogojoco]

Demelza asking for her baby when she wakes up and Ross not knowing how to answer her was one of the most heartbreaking things I've seen in a while. Also, a fevered Demelza asking Ross if Elizabeth was there to take him back was also very sad.

 

Her saying that it was at least worth something if Geoffrey Charles lived, she is really a sweet and good character. And is played to perfection. The two of them, with the wild black and red hair mixing together in the wind on the cliffs, the show knows how to put together visuals. It was romantic in the "Wuthering Heights" / "Jane Eyre" way.

 

One of the flaws of this production (and maybe the previous one, though I haven't watched it, and possibly the book) is that Ross is still hung up on Elizabeth at all. Demelza is a more interesting character in the show and she's more "useful" to him in the way he lives his life. Demelza works that farm and that house and she's a good link to Ross' desire to improve the lives of the poor. She's beautiful, she's charming, she's clever.

 

I recently re-watched "Death Comes to Pemperley" where Tomlinson convincingly plays Georgianna Darcy, pretty much the most posh character around that isn't a duchess or something, and I realized just how good Tomlinson is as Demelza. And she and Turner have way better chemistry.

 

 

Given the BBC One tweet, I suspect they are trying to build up the whole Ross/Elizabeth/Demelza thing, and the fans reaction  on Twitter to it. (Some of the responses, hilariously, were 'Well, if it isn't me, I guess Demelza is the one.'), I suspect Ross being hung up on Elizabeth is still going to be a thing. And it just makes the character look a bit dumb. 

 

ETA Other hilarious responses to tweet "Who the hell are the people picking Elizabeth? What's wrong with them?"

Edited April 27, 2015 by Pogojoco

[Pogojoco]

I'm not surprised Book Demelza is loveable, as apparently Winston Graham based some of her on his wife, Jean. 

 

Ross, in the previous episode, was maddening in how he lashed out at Demelza, as he acts impulsively far more often than she does. Although, I guess that's sort of Ross Poldark. I wonder if he realizes that she went to Trenwith to care for the little boy, Francis and Elizabeth because she felt so badly and guilty (as her actions led to the loss of Verity from the house.) And wanted to make everything better between the two families.

 

Man, this was a sad episode. I kind of miss the days Demelza was just lying in the grass with her dog, and she spied as her hot boss skinny dipping. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Pogojoco

[Glade]

I don't understand what exactly Goerge Worleggans was saying to Elizabeth at the end.  Is he in love with her?  Are the two men Francis and Ross, or George's father and Ross? 

 

Otherwise this was another sombre but powerful episode.  I'm glad that apparently Verity and her husband were not on that ship...she was totally absent from this episode, apparently she didn't go to Julia's funeral either?  I agree that the Mark/.Karen storyline was not very well done, since I didn't care about either of them or their fates.   I care about Ross and Demelza, but despite the cliffhanger I'm not really worried about the outcome of the trial. 

Edited May 9, 2015 by Glade

[Llywela]

Otherwise this was another sombre but powerful episode.  I'm glad that apparently Verity and her husband were not on that ship...she was totally absent from this episode, apparently she didn't go to Julia's funeral either?  I agree that the Mark/.Karen storyline was not very well done, since I didn't care about either of them or their fates.   I care about Ross and Demelza, but despite the cliffhanger I'm not really worried about the outcome of the trial. 

The ship that ran aground belonged to the Warleggans, newly acquired, for moving their cargoes. Andrew Blamey (Verity's husband) captains a Falmouth-Lisbon packet, a completely different ship - there was no risk of them being aboard the Warleggan ship, sailing from a different port. For all that Jinny was shown to be there, it would have been fairly unusual for a woman to attend a funeral in those days, and a long way for Verity to travel from Falmouth, especially since if Andrew was away with his ship she'd have had no escort to travel with her - and possibly no means of transport, either.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Llywela

[BonnieD]

Nitpicking about the shipwreck. How very convenient that the cargo hold was breeched enough that all the goods were released to float neatly to shore. Didn't people generally have to go out in their skiffs to recover booty? And why did it take half the night for the shipwreck survivors to get there. Okay, I guess they had to swim or float and maybe they even hung out on the ship for a while before deciding no one was going to come for them, but still, they took way longer than the cargo to get to shore. That is all.

Also, Ross didn't even try to counsel the local folks to chill out and stop beating on the survivors. Yeah, he saved the one guy but he really didn't make much of an effort to get people to collect their booty and get on home. Some leader.

 

Loved the episode. Got teary at Julia dying and I never tear up. Wanted to kick Ross for being so arrogant and rash in his speech to George. Does he never learn--don't piss off people in power who could do you harm! It was quite clear in that scene that George was not a completely terrible person and would have maybe even backed off a little if Ross were even slightly polite to him. George seemed truly saddened over the baby's death though he immediately hid it from his father. He seems to admire Ross underneath his desire to take everything he has. I believe GEorge when he says "we're more alike than you think" or we have more in common or whatever it was. If Ross weren't so terribly self righteous maybe he'd find a way to deal better with the Warleggans and perhaps even slowly bring George around to his way of viewing the poor. A long shot, but better to try to actually work with those in power than tell them they're terrible, narrow minded and wrong al the time. Didn't he learn that from the court case? But the character can't be perfect or he'd be inhuman. Reacting in a knee jerk manner and being self righteous (even if he is right) are Ross's character flaws.

 

It'll be a long wait for next season.

[Nampara]

Is the Ross-Demelza-Elizabeth “triangle” resolved at the end of episode 8? As I did with episode 7, I’m going to post some rather lengthy thoughts now and then wait for the general episode commentary to catch up. Sorry that this post is so bloated — I found that I had to cover more ground than expected.

 

By both the rules for episode threads and my own inclination, this discussion is based only on series 1 of Poldark 2015. What happened in the 1970s Poldark is irrelevant. What happened in the books is irrelevant. For the moment, in fact, just assume that no novels even exist. Nothing is preordained for series 2. Nothing is “supposed” to happen in the story, and therefore our view of series 1 need not be colored by any such expectations.

 

Was there a love triangle in the first place? Perhaps. The producers of the program certainly have been force-feeding the “triangle” concept to the audience, but the in-show evidence for it is actually rather flimsy. A love triangle, conventionally understood, implies a pair of competing and more-or-less equally compelling relationships. These relationships must be essentially contemporaneous to create the required rivalry. We don’t really witness such action in Poldark 2015. Ross is depicted as plainly in love with Elizabeth in episodes 1 and 2, during which time Demelza is a mere servant to him. At the end of episode 2, Ross finally achieves some insight into his obsession and chides himself for building imaginary castles out of “winks and smiles” from Elizabeth. From that point on, his feelings for her appear to change (to me, anyway). From episode 3 onward, we see from Ross warm friendship, concern over ill fortunes and bad behavior at Trenwith, and some residual romanticism, but almost nothing that is recognizable as his actively being in love with Elizabeth. As I’ve noted in other posts, Ross seems to be stirred by memories of his past emotions rather than by the emotions themselves.

 

Ross’s feelings for Demelza grow throughout episodes 3 and 4, until by the end of the latter episode he proclaims himself in love with his wife. From that point until the conclusion of episode 8, there are only the barest hints of an active “triangle.” There are a couple of passing references to admiration for Elizabeth or envy of Francis, and the notorious remark to Verity in episode 5 that Ross “perhaps” might like to have both Demelza and Elizabeth. Note that Ross does not say that he loves them both equally, or even that he loves them both at all. A casually uttered fantasy about having both one’s wife and one’s past love isn’t much of a foundation for a genuine love triangle. Nor does Demelza's occasional insecurity mean that she has a real, current rival.

 

Significantly, when word reaches Ross that the “putrid throat” has hit Trenwith, he shows concern, but certainly does not panic at the thought of Elizabeth’s being ill. Ross accepts the assurances of a good prognosis from Dr. Choake, whom he knows to be incompetent, and he inquires with Dr. Enys but does not insist upon action. When Demelza reveals that she journeyed to Trenwith to help, Ross is aghast and hopes that she was turned away! He is much more concerned about the risk of infection to his own immediate family than about the fact that Elizabeth had no one to tend her during her illness. Where was the “My dearest Elizabeth is in danger!” impulse to help? Nowhere.

 

It’s worth mentioning that, as far as I can tell, the Poldark fan base is very skeptical about the “triangle” notion. In the BBC’s “Demelza vs. Elizabeth” Twitter poll cited earlier in this thread, Demelza received more than 94 percent of the vote! Some quick research on fan forums (as opposed to our group, which is more of a discussion forum) turns up popular reactions like this: “Hold up ... we don't want a love triangle! Elizabeth needs to move to the other side of the planet, never to be seen or heard from again. Just stick with Demelza dude.” There appears to be widespread recognition that the triangle plot point has been hyped beyond what the episodes actually have dramatized.

 

Did the program intend to depict a resolution of the “triangle” in episode 8? Yes, in my opinion. I have not seen this particular argument made elsewhere, but it’s pretty convincing to me: At the time the episodes were filmed, Poldark had not been renewed for a second series. Thus, there was no certainty that viewers ever would revisit the lives of these characters (that is, the characters in this adaptation, not the characters in the books) after episode 8. I believe that the writer and producers felt an obligation to the audience to resolve Ross’s supposed love dilemma, since they had pushed the concept so hard in promoting the show. It would have been unfair to end the program without answering the question they themselves had encouraged: Whom does Ross really love, Demelza or Elizabeth? Viewers had to have emotional closure on at least that one point, hence the declarations from Ross on the subject at the end of the episode.

 

This theory is not incompatible with the “Ross gets arrested” cliffhanger. If Poldark had not been renewed, the last minute of the episode could simply have been cut to remove the arrest. And even if it had been left in with no renewal, it’s easier to ask viewers to imagine that Ross survives somehow than to ask them to resolve a debate about his feelings that seemed to exist largely in the minds of the producers.

 

Does the program actually depict a resolution of the “triangle” in episode 8? Yes. First, we must ask what kind of “resolution” is needed in the circumstances shown in the program. This is not a case in which a man must choose which of two women to marry; Ross is already married to Demelza. It’s unrealistic to expect Ross to move with his family to Boston in order to demonstrate his complete indifference to Elizabeth, or to ask Elizabeth to dump Francis and join him on a worldwide sea voyage. Evidence of a decision by Ross is required, not any particular dramatic action. The expected and natural way to resolve the “triangle” would be for Ross to make declarations to both Demelza and Elizabeth about what he has decided.

 

And such declarations are exactly what episode 8 depicts. Ross tells Elizabeth that the way she can help him is to, “Pray to God that I do not lose the love of my life.” He appears to be completely in earnest; nothing concentrates a man’s mind like the prospect of his young wife’s death. Ross shows no anger toward Elizabeth, but instead appears choked with emotion. When she replies, “Of course,” he even manages a little nod of thanks. And then when Demelza asks if Elizabeth has come to take him, he replies emphatically, “No, my love, she will never take me.” Elizabeth hears this exchange as well before leaving the room. It’s hard to imagine Ross’s being any clearer to both women about where his loyalties and his deepest feelings lie. He has had an epiphany, and he has shared it with both of them. If that is not a resolution, then no resolution is possible within the show’s dramatic parameters.

 

Can the “triangle” be revived in series 2? Not without substantial embarrassment. A blatant retcon of the end of episode 8 might be attempted (Ross was drunk or mad with grief, and knew not what he was saying. Ross just wanted to hurt Elizabeth. Ross lied and just told Demelza what she wanted to hear.), but it would only make the writer look very silly. Or despite his obvious epiphany, Ross could somehow experience the old (very old) familiar sensations the next time he sees Elizabeth, start to wonder about what might have been, etc. That storyline would make the character of Ross look very silly. Either way, someone will have to look stupid for the “triangle” as originally constituted to continue after episode 8.

[DanaMB]

This episode was so heartbreaking. I love this series so much (never read the books, never saw the earlier version). 

Edited August 3, 2015 by DanaMB

[butterly17]

Julia's death was just heartbreaking.  Ross's "I will stay with her, I will not have her be afraid"... and then the camera shifts to her little hand. 

 

Just too too sad.

[WatchrTina]

Oh for f**k sake -- it ended on a cliffhanger?  Ugh.

 

Not gonna lie -- I hated most of this episode.  The Warleggens are too one-dimensionally evil and I find it hard to believe that they can ruin someone by just calling in a loan for no reason.  Was banking really so capricious and screwed up back then?  There are other bankers -- can't they go to one of them and refinance the loan?

 

The trope of Demelza earning her way back into Ross's good books and healing the family rift by tending the sick and then brining the sickness home to her own child who DIES -- ugh.

 

Stupid, stupid Doctor whats-his-name falling prey to that hussy -- ugh.

 

And as for the law of shipwreck and salvage -- well they just seem to be making it up as they go along don't they?  Ugh.

 

I'll probably watch the next season but right now I don't much care about it.  I just hope Verity has the good sense to stay on board her ship with her husband like Anne Elliot at the end of Jane Austen's "Persuasion."

Edited August 3, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Primetimer]

Ross ends the season in at least as much trouble as he began it.

Read the story

[Nampara]

I've already said my piece on episode 8 above, but here are some additional stray observations:

• George's little speech to Elizabeth was crazily inappropriate. "I will no longer have my feelings misunderstood — or my intentions." How can a gentleman have "intentions" toward a married woman?! In that era, such a statement would have been tantamount to a proposal of marriage, so it was totally improper for George to address someone's wife that way.
• If Demelza was well enough to leave the house at the end, why didn't Ross take her to visit Julia's grave? A cliffside goodbye ceremony is necessary for someone who dies at sea, but not for a person buried in a nearby family plot. (The "cliffhanger" was dramatic, I'll grant that.)
• I knew that the "Resurgam" musical cue was too good to waste on the closing of Grambler (episode 5)! The music is resurrected, so to speak, for Ross and Demelza's final scene.

[Nidratime]

If Demelza was well enough to leave the house at the end, why didn't Ross take her to visit Julia's grave? A cliffside goodbye ceremony is necessary for someone who dies at sea, but not for a person buried in a nearby family plot. (The "cliffhanger" was dramatic, I'll grant that.)

 

 

Clearly that was just done for dramatic effect and made no sense whatsoever. Why that particular spot on the cliff? Was that Julia's favorite? (Heh.) Yes, it would've made much more sense to take Demelza to her daughter's grave *and* it would've been more emotional to have Ross dragged off to jail from his daughter's grave. Oh well.

 

So ... one assumes that everyone else was arrested too, and not just Ross considering they probably had all the contraband in their homes, right? (I know the answer to this, but I'm just trying to figure out the logic.)

[Driad]

 

Hey PBS -- not all of us have recording gadgets.  Would have been nice to have a few minutes between episodes 7 and 8 for a pit stop.

[Lindsey]

I thought Julia's death was really well handled.  Sometimes period dramas gloss over infant mortality by either ignoring it or breezing past it with an, "oh, well, a lot of children died young then" air without taking time to focus on the parents' feelings.  Ross and Demelza's devastation felt real.

 

Overall, I've really enjoyed this season. I even came around on Elizabeth once she stopped mooning over Ross and started shit-talking Francis.

[Knuckles]

I have loved this version of Poldark, and yes I had forgotten that Ross was a wanted man before he enlisted in the army, so thanks for the reminder.

 

But Francis is such a dimwit, he drives me mad. Sure, George slimes up and offers 1,200 pounds in recompense for his card-cheating cousin, but does Frances, overly relieved, think to ask for the return of his mine, since that was forfeit to the same cheat? Clearly not.  Yes, that was a great deal of money at the time, and yes Frances has found some relief, but come one, why let this cousin make off with most of his ill-gotten gains?  is Frances unable to find a lawyer or get the law to go after Sanson? The law seems to be able to find everyone else. Ross would have driven a much harder bargain, and offered to let the courts drag the Warleggen name into the mud it richly deserves. A perfect opportunity wasted.

And yes, Demelza is a goddess.

[Llywela]

But Francis is such a dimwit, he drives me mad. Sure, George slimes up and offers 1,200 pounds in recompense for his card-cheating cousin, but does Frances, overly relieved, think to ask for the return of his mine, since that was forfeit to the same cheat? Clearly not.

It was already far too late to resurrect the mine - it would cost a fortune to re-open it, a fortune that was not on offer. Francis was angry and upset and George played him like a fiddle in that scene.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

 

I've already said my piece on episode 8 above, but here are some additional stray observations:

• George's little speech to Elizabeth was crazily inappropriate. "I will no longer have my feelings misunderstood — or my intentions." How can a gentleman have "intentions" toward a married woman?! In that era, such a statement would have been tantamount to a proposal of marriage, so it was totally improper for George to address someone's wife that way.
• If Demelza was well enough to leave the house at the end, why didn't Ross take her to visit Julia's grave? A cliffside goodbye ceremony is necessary for someone who dies at sea, but not for a person buried in a nearby family plot. (The "cliffhanger" was dramatic, I'll grant that.)

 

With regard to your first point, George hasn't exactly shown himself to be a man full of scruples.  Furthermore, even in a society filled with rules, there are always people willing to break them, and I am going to guess that the guy whose family rose up through society through sheer force of will, apparently, and is willing to bankrupt everyone around him is one of those people. I know that there were a lot of rules in Britain in this period, but I also know - as even Austen's books show - that people actually live their lives during that era, too.  So the notion that George may flout convention and declare himself to Elizabeth is not a bridge too far to me.

 

With regard to the second, not everyone finds a grave site comforting.  Demelza clearly finds the shore a place of comfort for her, and perhaps she felt closer to her daughter remembering happier times.

[JudyObscure]

I actually like the way George's storyline is going. I think he was his father's clone when he was very young, naively believing that if he only acquired enough money he would become a gentleman, welcome in society. Gradually he is finding out that everything Ross Poldark says to him about what truly defines a gentleman is real and that it's still very far from his grasp. At the same time I see George showing glimpses of actually having a heart. He looked truly shocked and grieved when he heard that Ross Poldark's daughter had died, he evidenced some shame over having hosted a card shark, and now his love for Elizabeth, however inappropriate, has further damaged his ability to be coldly mercenary in every aspect. I thought the 1200 was to help her, not to manipulate Francis. He legally owed Francis nothing. I may be way off base, but it seems to me that George is growing away from his father and may turn out to be fairly decent at some point.

Elizabeth is growing on me. I see her struggling to be a good, loyal wife to Francis, but he grows weaker and more petty while she grows steadily stronger and kinder.

It was good to see Verity happy, but I hope that doesn't mean we won't have her next season.

I don't blame the young doctor for giving in to Karen when she was working that hard at seduction. It must have been such a lonely existence for him. That cracking sound when Karen's husband was holding her struggling body was so sickening --well done sound man.

I'm glad this show seems to be sticking to the culture when it was written and not inserting politically correct lessons about domestic abuse or controlling husbands. Demelza is true to herself and her own kind impulses while, at the same time, feeling guilty for not "obeying," Ross. I think that's honest for the period and I'm glad it's portrayed that way.

[not Bridget]

Ladies did not usually attend burials in Georgian & Regency days. Of course, the lower class Cornish women were not so concerned with the habits of the gently bred "Lady."

The cemetery as a lovely garden, full of sentimental art, was a VIctorian invention. Old Style churchyards were serviceable places to deposit the dead--boneyards. (Sometimes temporarily--where are the vast graveyards of the Medieval dead? The rich & famous got vaults in the church, since they rated permanent remembrance.) Grave markers in our own Colonial graveyards are decorated with skulls & bones & reminders of mortality.

Some place other than a child's fresh grave might be a more comforting place to remember the little lost life.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I actually like the way George's storyline is going. I think he was his father's clone when he was very young, naively believing that if he only acquired enough money he would become a gentleman, welcome in society. Gradually he is finding out that everything Ross Poldark says to him about what truly defines a gentleman is real and that it's still very far from his grasp. At the same time I see George showing glimpses of actually having a heart. He looked truly shocked and grieved when he heard that Ross Poldark's daughter had died, he evidenced some shame over having hosted a card shark, and now his love for Elizabeth, however inappropriate, has further damaged his ability to be coldly mercenary in every aspect. I thought the 1200 was to help her, not to manipulate Francis. He legally owed Francis nothing. I may be way off base, but it seems to me that George is growing away from his father and may turn out to be fairly decent at some point.

 

 

I think he was primarily manipulating Francis with the 1200 pounds, and I am not really sure he was that shocked by Sanson's cheating, but I think he knew that the fact that Ross called Sanson out so publicly meant that he had to do something to be accepted in society.  That being said, I agree with most of what you said here in that we saw layers in George in this episode that we hadn't seen previously. I think he was genuinely saddened by Julia's death.

 

I also thought George had two interesting truth-speaking moments in these episodes - the first when he pointed out to Francis that Francis's marriage to Elizabeth may not have an endeared him to Ross and the second when he told Ross that the two of them were alike in a lot of ways. I think both of those things were true, and indicated an interesting level of introspection in the character.

[Milz]

And as for the law of shipwreck and salvage -- well they just seem to be making it up as they go along don't they?  Ugh.

 

I'll probably watch the next season but right now I don't much care about it.  I just hope Verity has the good sense to stay on board her ship with her husband like Anne Elliot at the end of Jane Austen's "Persuasion."

 

Yes on both accounts.

 

 

I've already said my piece on episode 8 above, but here are some additional stray observations:

• George's little speech to Elizabeth was crazily inappropriate. "I will no longer have my feelings misunderstood — or my intentions." How can a gentleman have "intentions" toward a married woman?! In that era, such a statement would have been tantamount to a proposal of marriage, so it was totally improper for George to address someone's wife that way.

 

 

Unless Georgie was "proposing" to make Elizabeth his mistress. Francis is doing a good job of imagining himself a cuckold, anyway.

 

 

 At the same time I see George showing glimpses of actually having a heart. He looked truly shocked and grieved when he heard that Ross Poldark's daughter had died, he evidenced some shame over having hosted a card shark, and now his love for Elizabeth, however inappropriate, has further damaged his ability to be coldly mercenary in every aspect. I thought the 1200 was to help her, not to manipulate Francis. He legally owed Francis nothing. I may be way off base, but it seems to me that George is growing away from his father and may turn out to be fairly decent at some point.

Elizabeth is growing on me. I see her struggling to be a good, loyal wife to Francis, but he grows weaker and more petty while she grows steadily stronger and kinder.

 

 

With the high infant and childhood mortality of that era, I find if rather unbelievable that George would have sympathy for Ross over Julia's death. The death of children and infants was, unfortunately, commonplace even with the "putrid sore throat" wasn't ravishing the countryside.  And considering he had no feeling of destroying the families of  the other investors of Carnmore (especially the guy who was either going to debtor's prison or going to the poorhouse), his Ross sympathy was very uncharacteristic and fake to me.

 

I agree the 1200 was to help Elizabeth, not to help Francis. The 1200(pounds) in today's economy would have an income value of about 2 million pounds (sorry, I can't make that pounds symbol)

 

As for Elizabeth, I got the impression that she was heartbroken (or pride broken) that Ross finally dumped her and whatever Georgie's intentions are she would reciprocate because she's on the rebound.

[Llywela]

I agree the 1200 was to help Elizabeth, not to help Francis. The 1200(pounds) in today's economy would have an income value of about 2 million pounds (sorry, I can't make that pounds symbol)

Two birds, one stone.

[Nidratime]

I also thought George had two interesting truth-speaking moments in these episodes - the first when he pointed out to Francis that Francis's marriage to Elizabeth may not have an endeared him to Ross and the second when he told Ross that the two of them were alike in a lot of ways. I think both of those things were true, and indicated an interesting level of introspection in the character.

 

 

I'm not quite sure how alike George and Ross are. For one, George desperately wants to be accepted, while Ross doesn't seem to care or takes acceptance for granted -- which he can do since he was born into the gentry.

 

While George definitely has a thing for Elizabeth, I think he also has "a thing" for Ross -- not in a romantic attraction way, but in that he keeps wanting Ross to be "his pal." It's like Ross is the cool kid and he wants to be the cool kid's friend. I get that he also wants Ross and his mines and money under his control as he has managed to get many others under his financial control. But the way, he always approaches Ross wanting to engage him feels like he wants some sort of "friendship" with him that clearly will never be. (Perhaps this is the way this relationship is being portrayed in this production, as I don't recall feeling quite as strongly about this in the previous production, although George always wanted to be accepted among the gentry and aristocracy.)

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I'm not quite sure how alike George and Ross are. For one, George desperately wants to be accepted, while Ross doesn't seem to care or takes acceptance for granted -- which he can do since he was born into the gentry.

 

While George definitely has a thing for Elizabeth, I think he also has "a thing" for Ross -- not in a romantic attraction way, but in that he keeps wanting Ross to be "his pal." It's like Ross is the cool kid and he wants to be the cool kid's friend. I get that he also wants Ross and his mines and money under his control as he has managed to get many others under his financial control. But the way, he always approaches Ross wanting to engage him feels like he wants some sort of "friendship" with him that clearly will never be. (Perhaps this is the way this relationship is being portrayed in this production, as I don't recall feeling quite as strongly about this in the previous production, although George always wanted to be accepted among the gentry and aristocracy.)

 

Well, they are alike in that - whether or not they share a desire to be accepted - they both are outsiders to society in a lot of ways. Ross rejects a lot of society's rules, while George is trying to force himself into society by sheer force of will (and wealth), but both are looked down upon in a lot of ways. 

 

Granted, they are also very different in that George seems to believe wealth at all cost is justified while Ross recognizes that poverty causes people to do all sorts of bad things.  But I didn't think George was totally off in acknowledging that they have this thing in common about being outsiders (which is what I believe he was referring to).  To some extent, that explains why Francis is such an important character - Francis is not the outsider, for all that he seems to have a variable character.  So the battle for Francis's soul that seems to be waged between Ross and George is really about both of them wanting to be accepted by Francis and by society.

[shandy]

There was such a sad 'Last of England' vibe I  really wanted Ross and Demelza to stand looking west across the ocean and decide  to ditch muddy Cornwall for the colonies.

 

Add my vote for Verity Poldark in season 2 - in my view she outshines everyone else in this adaptation.  

[dubbel zout]

With the high infant and childhood mortality of that era, I find if rather unbelievable that George would have sympathy for Ross over Julia's death.

 

I think George was genuinely sympathetic—even if it was commonplace to lose children, it doesn't mean you don't feel it—but I thought it was a very plot-pointy way to show that George might be having second thoughts about being so craven.

 

t's like Ross is the cool kid and he wants to be the cool kid's friend.

 

Definitely. I think George admires the way Ross is part of the gentry but is also able to reject some of society's constraints. Of course, as Nidratime pointed out, Ross can afford to act that way, as he's solidly in the gentry. No matter what he does, he won't lose that status. He might be ridiculed or shunned or whatever, but he'll always be a Poldark.

[Nampara]

I thought the 1200 was to help her, not to manipulate Francis. He legally owed Francis nothing.

 

Well, within the context of the story as presented to us, it appears that legal action was not regarded by the Poldarks as a realistic option, but I think a decent case against George actually could be assembled. Francis lost money and his mine to George's cousin at a card party in George's house, to which Francis had been invited by George. It also would be easy to show that the loss and subsequent closing of Grambler inured to George's financial benefit. Later, Ross was in the process of being cheated by George's same cousin at a ball in George's house, to which Ross had been invited by George. And George personally urged Ross to play cards with his cousin, and mentioned Francis's losses as an incentive. A fraudulent conspiracy claim against George seems quite viable to me, at least by today's standards.

[Rhetorica]

I thought the word choice of Elizabeth speaking to Ross about Demelza was odd, "She saved my child but lost yours."

[Milz]

I think George was in on Sansone's scam. If they weren't 'gentlemen' I think they would have been grifters. And the money was for Elizabeth since Georgie boy has the hots for her but given under the guise of "well, I feel really bad that you were scammed Francis. What a rotten cousin I have! Just like you, in fact." We don't know if Georgie returned anyone else's money, but my gut feeling is that he didn't.

[chocolatetruffle]

Wait, did George actually return Francis' money?? I thought he simply forgave Francis' debts to the tune of 1200 pounds?  Either way, it was designed to make him look good in front of Elizabeth.  

 

I thought this episode was very well done: great pacing, suspenseful and heartbreaking.  The final scene on the cliffside was so beautiful and emotional, then the way it turned into Ross getting arrested was brilliant. Ross' look back at Demelza as they were leading him away broke my heart and completely changed my opinion of Aidan Turner as an actor.  The expression on his face said volumes.

 

The only other thing I wanted to see was the Warleggans get their big, fat comeuppance.  So many people have suffered great losses because of those two and the loss of one cargo ship was a minor setback since, as far as I could tell, their business is still intact.  And their obsession with Ross has crossed over into psychosis and is really starting to grate. I don't care that George was moved by Julia's death, unless it causes a re-examination of his ruthless, unrelenting schemes to destroy Ross.

[applecrisp]

I liked this episode.  We saw more of the house of Ross and Demelza, it has an upstairs and some nice furnishings.  I was surprised Ross stayed at the shipwreck as long as he did.  Then came home and was so despondent over his wife.

 

I did think it is a lovely show and it is hard to go back to drivel.  I am watching the Paradise on Netflix and it does not compare.

[Nidratime]

I was surprised Ross stayed at the shipwreck as long as he did.  Then came home and was so despondent over his wife.

 

 

I think the very fact that his daughter died and his wife was seriously ill played into Ross' emotions. He was utterly despondent and felt helpless as we would all feel in the face of an illness that struck our family. However, the wrecked ship was something he could do. It was an activity, and he's an action oriented guy. He could help to get his tenants the goods, "the payback" he felt he owed them for their sympathy for him during his mourning for his daughter. Remember he was saying to Dwight (I think?) that he had nothing to give them to show his thanks? Plus, he could help the officers and sailors which he had every intention of doing as well. Remember, Dwight had already said he could save Demelza and did, so it wasn't like Ross needed to be there to nurse her. And he had already buried Julia so I'm guessing the ship wreck was something to take his mind off his sorrow and help out his community.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Nidratime

[catrice2]

Is there a spoiler thread where someone who read the books  or saw the first Poldark can tell me what happens to George? 

[Nidratime]

You could go to the thread titled:

 

Poldark: Now, Then, and Before (the Books, the Original Series, and the Remake)

 

Spoilers are acceptable there.

[Nampara]

"Triangle" update — A couple of items related to my July 23 post above. First, it's clear that the "Love of my life"/"She will never take me" dialogue is not being swept under the rug by the producers. To the contrary, they are selling it. The official Poldark Facebook page has a photo of Ross speaking to Elizabeth in that scene, with the key line quoted, as an activity generator (apparently a successful one). And I should have mentioned this in my original post, but "Love of My Life" is the title of one of the tracks on the Poldark soundtrack album. 

 

Now that the final episode has been shown in the United States, here's a new question to supplement those in the first post:

 

Does the audience believe that the program depicted a resolution of the “triangle” in episode 8? Yes. From what I have seen, this reaction has been virtually unanimous in both the U.S. and the U.K. among those relying on the on-screen evidence alone (no references to the books). One professional recapper summarized the crucial scene this way: "There it is: Ross loves Demelza! He loves Demelza and not Elizabeth. Phew. At least something kind of good (for everyone but Elizabeth) happened." The reactions of individual audience members on various websites are along the lines of "Yes!" and "He finally put Elizabeth in her place" and "I'm so glad he loves Demelza!" It was also fascinating to see how many fans commented that, "I needed to hear him say that!" This sentiment confirms my speculation that viewers would demand closure on this issue; indeed, apparently many people longed for such resolution even knowing that the program had been renewed for 2016. The BBC understands its audience, no doubt. But I believe the "needed to hear him say that" feeling goes beyond the simple desire for a definitive answer to the show's (partially contrived) Demelza vs. Elizabeth question. It also strongly reflects these fans' desire for a particular answer: after all the pain they endured in watching episodes 7 and especially 8, they needed the comfort of having the Ross-Demelza romantic pairing confirmed explicitly for them and protected against further doubt.

[Big Bad Wolf]

Ross' look back at Demelza as they were leading him away broke my heart and completely changed my opinion of Aidan Turner as an actor.  The expression on his face said volumes.

 

 

LOL What? Up until that point you thought he was a bit crap?

 

Well, okay then.

[butterly17]

I hadn't seen Aidan in anything besides this and he seemed an excellent actor all through the series IMO. I think earlier in the series Ross was trying to be stoic about certain things, because that was all he had left, and he had to keep it together.

[Llywela]

I've always thought Aidan Turner a good actor, since his Being Human and Desperate Romantics days - both well worth checking out as examples of his work, btw, as well as just in their own right. He did a good job here in Poldark, too. My reservations about the series as a whole have nothing to do with him.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Llywela

[Milz]

Wait, did George actually return Francis' money?? I thought he simply forgave Francis' debts to the tune of 1200 pounds?  Either way, it was designed to make him look good in front of Elizabeth.  

 

 

I think George returned 1200 of the money Francis lost due to Sansone's cheating.

 

Anyhow, my thoughts on the Francis V. Verity & Andrew debacle. After hearing Verity gush that they had only met a dozen times before they were married, I'm completely on Francis' side to forbid Verity from marrying that drunken wife killer. Francis knew about those meetings, presumably, and based his actions on that knowledge that his sister barely knows Blamey enough to make any type of judgement about him. Ditto for Elizabeth's complacency on the matter too. Unlike Demelza, Elizabeth's knowledge of Verity's relationship with Blamey is probably based on those 12 meetings.

[MrsE]

When Ross stood amidst the mayhem on the beach and I saw that slow, sly smile on his face I couldn't help but think "Welcome back, John Mitchell".

[jah1986]

I just don't understand why Ross seems to go out of his way to antagonize people.  He couldn't show just a bit of kindness when George's cousin died. I mean why go on about how you wouldn't have saved him if you could have that just seemed so unnecessary especially after his going on to Demelza about the consequences of not thinking things through. Don't get me wrong I loved this series but sometimes I just want to shake Ross.

[chocolatetruffle]

LOL What? Up until that point you thought he was a bit crap?

 

Well, okay then.

 

Um, no.  I actually thought he was good.  IMO he elevated from "good" to "great."  I like to see subtlety and complexity and IMO he brought both to that scene.

[Milz]

I just don't understand why Ross seems to go out of his way to antagonize people.  He couldn't show just a bit of kindness when George's cousin died. I mean why go on about how you wouldn't have saved him if you could have that just seemed so unnecessary especially after his going on to Demelza about the consequences of not thinking things through. Don't get me wrong I loved this series but sometimes I just want to shake Ross.

 

I think that's meant to portray Ross as a rebel, rather than Ross as an asshat (but he comes off as an asshat.)

[marys1000]

So, George Warleggen had a moment of softening towards Ross because of Julia's death.  Reached out, was rebuffed and narc'ed/bought off the "cops" to have Ross taken away to jail.  I still don't like the Warleggen's but then I don't think I'm supposed to.  Poor Georgie, got all hurt feelings and hardened his evil ways.  Being that divorce and affairs for the women anyway were terribly ruinous I can't believe George is telling Elizabeth - I don't mean to be stopped.  Is he going to have Francis killed?  (I actually know the answer but just saying, It makes almost no sense anyway).

 

Generally, this episode reminded me of Gone with the Wind.  Lots of heartbreak and sad. 

[Milz]

 Being that divorce and affairs for the women anyway were terribly ruinous I can't believe George is telling Elizabeth - I don't mean to be stopped.  Is he going to have Francis killed?  (I actually know the answer but just saying, It makes almost no sense anyway).

 

The impression I got is that Georgie propositioned Elizabeth to become his mistress.