A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Bookish Jen]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:42 AM, Sweedish Fish said:

Nope.  I'm sure I am panicking for no reason.  The screening place did not even ask what kind of medication that I was on.

I was worried about the backround check too - even thou I never even had a parking ticket.

I'm a worry wart, too. I'm sure everything will work out.

[Sweedish Fish]

Thank you all.   They have not gotten the results as of yet.  I am very confident and took all the advice.  No sense worring. What's done is done.

They emailed today to set up a time to discuss what will be expected on my first day.

New hire inboarding and paperwork.  Yay.

[Sweedish Fish]

Happy day!  I've cleared both the backround check and drug screening.

I start Monday.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Late, but congratulations @Sweedish Fish! I remember being paranoid about my background check too. My boss was going to be out on vacation the week after I found out I got the offer and I wanted to resign before he left. I certainly could have resigned with his boss, but it wouldn’t have been ideal for me. Once my now boss told me they were waiting on one more criminal background check from a nearby county I knew I’d be fine since I had no criminal record. Then I just decided to for it.

Been at New Job almost two months now. Change was scary but I’m so glad I did it! 

[Bookish Jen]

23 hours ago, Sweedish Fish said:

Happy day!  I've cleared both the backround check and drug screening.

I start Monday.

What wonderful news. I'm so happy for you.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Been at my new job two months and our busy period of campus recruiting and interviewing is going to wind down in the next couple weeks. I’m definitely going to have a “now what” moment once everything finishes up. 😂 I’ve enjoyed most of it, although getting people to volunteer for interviews has been challenging. My boss has had to start voluntelling people at a few points. 

I think this is the space I want to settle into and grow a career in. (Right now I do recruiting coordination with some professional development coordination.) I’m in my mid 30s now and making mid $40K in salary, so my long-term goal is to keep growing within TA or HR. I don’t want to keep starting at the bottom in new fields or job types. While I’d like to stay in legal recruiting since I work for a law firm (I would have gone to law school if not for the massive debt load and life of work misery many attorneys face), I’m not as hard set on that and would consider talent acquisition jobs outside that industry as long as I can move up the ladder and become a specialist once I have enough experience as a coordinator. Sometimes you just know when the job hopping and exploration needs to stop. 

[Guest]

My workplace made some outsourcing decision that are not going well.  That being an understatement.

This has culminated in me having no Fs.  No fear.  No filter,  And zero F@#$s to give.  I was also informed of a decision this week that made my cup of righteous indignation runneth over and my protective instincts for my team go to eleven.  

So, I took the nuclear option on problem escalation (because worse that can happen is I get fired and that would be a relief at this point).  I had an extensive chat with the boss second from the top (of the company).  And he spilled all the tea. 

I have spent years in conversations with co-workers that are mostly questions.  What were they thinking?  Do they know what they just did? Do they understand just how bad things are?

It is weird to have a blow by blow explanation of how that outsourcing decision got made, who knew what and when (although I'm assuming some level of unreliable narration re:their part in decisions), and what is going on now.

Anyway, among other things, 2nd boss from the top is going to try to avert the thing I was told about.  And I called my boss and told him that part (and only that part ..because I am playing with fire) and the sacrifice I am going to make (monetarily) to protect my team from this undeserved crap if that doesn't work out. It’s not the money, it’s the message. And I'm not going to deliver the message to my team that my boss' boss delivered to us middle managers on behalf of the CEO.

My boss went pale when I told him what I was going to do to protect my team.  Probably because he now has to either do the same to protect his team or explain why I'm not being compensated for my performance.  That will be a shitshow of its own for reasons I won't even get into because so much drama is going on that one post can't contain it. 

Anyway, I now have a situation where a handful of senior leaders or my boss is going to have to do the right thing.  And if they don't, I'm going to quit.  Because there is no room for plausible deniability.  I got ahead of this one before it happened.  And there is right and wrong and nothing in the middle.

If I don't quit, I think I'm going to have to add Jiminy Cricket to my list of job titles. It’s pretty clear that the employees are not even in the top 10 of things it occurs to the leaders of the company to think about.   I mean I got a good reaction when I pointed out "this is how human nature works and this is bad consequence of not thinking about people who facilitate good things" but that I had to point that out at all is disheartening. I was literally told that they "forgot" my high performing, critical to success team is in reporting structure of low performing organization being sent a message.

I don't think my workplace will get better anytime soon because all the quick fixes require time travel to undo stupid decisions.  But I'm feeling pretty good about taking control of the situation and not let this shit fester any longer.

Oh, forgot something.  Want to know how my conversation with the 2nd boss from the top ended?

{him} : Would you be comfortable talking to the CEO?

{me} Sure.

No idea if that will happen.  There was a thinly veiled if CEO can take one more person explaining the mess that his decisions have caused in that question.

Edited October 1, 2022 by ParadoxLost

[SuprSuprElevated]

I lol'd

[Browncoat]

[oliviabenson]

9 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I lol'd

That’s how it is with city jobs 🤪

[Bookish Jen]

Well, I have some bad news. I was let go from my job last week. It had nothing to do with my work. But my old company lost 11 clients and two sources of funding. The writing was on the wall.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Bookish Jen said:

Well, I have some bad news. I was let go from my job last week. It had nothing to do with my work. But my old company lost 11 clients and two sources of funding. The writing was on the wall.

Very sorry to hear that and hope you find another one soon!

[SuprSuprElevated]

3 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Well, I have some bad news. I was let go from my job last week. It had nothing to do with my work. But my old company lost 11 clients and two sources of funding. The writing was on the wall.

So sorry to hear.  I'm sure you will rebound quickly!

[Annber03]

Aw, I'm sorry, @Bookish Jen.

[supposebly]

9 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Well, I have some bad news. I was let go from my job last week. It had nothing to do with my work. But my old company lost 11 clients and two sources of funding. The writing was on the wall.

So sorry to hear that. I hope you have a backup plan and find something great soon.

[Spartan Girl]

A coworker that I worked on several projects with got another position, and didn’t even bother to tell me. Most people are in the office three days a week, but she didn’t even send me an email. I had no until my supervisor mentioned in passing.

And because the airheard didn’t bother to at least train me to take over her parts of the position beforehand I’m stuck trying to figure out on my own. I hope someone else can give me instructions but still.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And because the airheard didn’t bother to at least train me to take over her parts of the position beforehand I’m stuck trying to figure out on my own. I hope someone else can give me instructions but still.

I suggest you "manage up" this problem, i.e. tell your supervisor you haven't been trained in these tasks. They may find someone in the company who can help you, and at the very least they'll know not to expect you to perform these tasks perfectly right away.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I suggest you "manage up" this problem, i.e. tell your supervisor you haven't been trained in these tasks. They may find someone in the company who can help you, and at the very least they'll know not to expect you to perform these tasks perfectly right away.

Oh I had a long talk with my supervisor about it. Hopefully he and the others that work on the project will be able to help me. But the whole thing feeding into my growing dissatisfaction in general.

And to top it all off, the flake might have gotten the job that I interviewed for, possibly because she was at a higher level than me. Which I wouldn’t mind so much if she had been kind enough to at least TELL me she was leaving. I mean, am I crazy, or isn’t it common courtesy to let your coworkers know you’re leaving for another job?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[chocolatine]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I mean, am I crazy, or isn’t it common courtesy to let your coworkers know you’re leaving for another job?

It usually is, but these days people are paranoid with all the news of layoffs and rescinded job offers. So she probably didn't want to jinx it in case the new job was pulled out from under her. It's also possible that she knows that you also wanted the job and didn't want to look like she's gloating.

[Bookish Jen]

Thanks for your support and kind words. It's starting to sink in. I'm taking this week easy. I have work I need to do around my apartment and I have friends coming into town this weekend.

I will apply for unemployment and connect with some recruiters I know. I've worked a bit on my resume, too. I do gave a lot of money saved up, which helps. And I'm pretty thrifty.

I stopped by my old office this past Monday to drop off some signed severance papers and pick up some of my belongings. My ex-boss told me she cried when the higher ups told her I had to go. Things have been really upended because I did so many things for my job. Their loss, right?

[emma675]

33 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

My ex-boss told me she cried when the higher ups told her I had to go. Things have been really upended because I did so many things for my job. Their loss, right?

If they try to call you to ask questions on how to do things, don't do it for free. Tell then you're more than happy to help at your consultant rate of $XX per hour. 

[Bookish Jen]

38 minutes ago, emma675 said:

If they try to call you to ask questions on how to do things, don't do it for free. Tell then you're more than happy to help at your consultant rate of $XX per hour. 

Good idea. I was told they'd rehire me. But I don't know if I want to go back.

[supposebly]

7 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Good idea. I was told they'd rehire me. But I don't know if I want to go back.

(Much) higher salary? Although you said it was because they were losing clients. So, that might not be a good idea anyway.

[Spartan Girl]

18 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It usually is, but these days people are paranoid with all the news of layoffs and rescinded job offers. So she probably didn't want to jinx it in case the new job was pulled out from under her. It's also possible that she knows that you also wanted the job and didn't want to look like she's gloating.

No, that’s irrelevant. I didn’t tell anyone except my supervisor that I was interviewing. And again, I wish she would have prepared me for the fact that I’d be left alone on our projects. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Things are finally slowing down after our crazy recruiting season. We’re not quite done but we are close to making hiring decisions for which students will work with us next summer. I learned a ton and got good hands-on experience that will help for next year but it is nice to breathe for now. My boss said to enjoy the break and we’ll get back down to a steadier pace.

I had been thinking about taking a second job or starting a side hustle but I decided to put that on hold for now. I need to decide what kind of side business I want to have, if anything, and I don’t have the energy to finish a work day after 5 and then go work retail or food service. I will try cutting my budget and tracking my spending first to look for cuts, and failing that I will look for a side gig. I also don’t have tons of contacts and experience to start freelancing, and even if I do start…I don’t know. Having to do all the marketing and work with clients from scratch after a full day of work isn’t for me at the moment. I want to work and then mellow out by writing for fun or working out. I could always blog I guess. 

I loved doing Instacart but it’s pretty much dead in my area now or I would just stick to that. 

[chocolatine]

18 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I loved doing Instacart but it’s pretty much dead in my area now or I would just stick to that. 

Could you do Lyft or Uber?

[Cloud9Shopper]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Could you do Lyft or Uber?

I’m not willing to. I’m a woman and would be driving alone…don’t want to pick up men I’m not familiar with in possibly shady neighborhoods. 

[AgentRXS]

What about UberEats or DoorDash?

[Cloud9Shopper]

I sat it on my first hiring selection meeting today, and it helped me realize how impersonal hiring really is on the other side. Not in a malicious way (trust me, no one was gleeful about having to reject even people who weren’t our top contenders for offers) or a cold, uncaring way, but it was like…unless a candidate does something truly awful or bombs the interview in a memorable way, no one thinks any less of the people we’re not hiring.

In the case of where I work, the people that didn’t interview as well didn’t even come up in the discussion and we just focused on our top 5-7 candidates. They were all good in their own merits, and even the people not in our top group still had positive characteristics. No one was outright rude to the staff or had a bad attitude during the process or anything. One person did clearly rise above the others and got an offer, but picking backups (in case one of our top two declines) was a little trickier. One of our backups did great on his interview, but he didn’t have as much experience with X, and the person who our second offer went to that he was in a close race with had X experience. 

It was a lesson for me in just how competitive some fields are and how you can do everything right but lose out because one person is slightly more XYZ than you. On paper, everyone has great grades and interesting work experiences; even some of the people we didn’t pick had interesting stories and resume entries. They communicate well in writing and in interviews. But it ultimately comes down to little things candidates can’t always control. It’s my job to send rejections, and while it didn’t ruin my day to do so, I felt bad in a way having to email candidates who were nothing but gracious with me and talented on paper to let them down. 

I did learn a lot, though, and next time I’m job searching, I’ll at least know better that I can try to control what I can, but there’s a chunk of the process that you just can’t do anything about. 

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I sat it on my first hiring selection meeting today, and it helped me realize how impersonal hiring really is on the other side. Not in a malicious way (trust me, no one was gleeful about having to reject even people who weren’t our top contenders for offers) or a cold, uncaring way, but it was like…unless a candidate does something truly awful or bombs the interview in a memorable way, no one thinks any less of the people we’re not hiring.

Yes, that's exactly it; I wish more people would understand that and not feel so bad when they don't get an offer. I think of candidates only in terms of their suitability/readiness for the role I'm trying to hire for, so there's no value judgement if they don't fit our specific criteria.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

But it ultimately comes down to little things candidates can’t always control.

Yes, and which varies depending on those evaluating the candidates.  I will never forget many, many years ago (in a former career, when I was in HR, recruiting and interviewing people in general, not just interviewing people for a specific position reporting to me) interviewing a candidate for a finance position, asking the standard "What's your biggest weakness?" question - and yeah, we know 99% don't give an honest answer, we just evaluate the bullshit you come up with for how you spin it and what truth it may reveal - only to hear the applicant say it was punctuality; she hates mornings and struggles with being on time in general if she has to be somewhere else, but is working on it in the name of respecting other people's time. 

Combined with her command of numbers and grasp of the big picture, I immediately responded to her honesty - obviously influenced by punctuality being a personal struggle, too, and being grateful to have navigated my way through bosses who didn't give a shit because I was on time when it actually mattered and otherwise did my work very well even if on an atypical schedule - and recommended her up the food chain.  But that would have left her dead in the water with many prospective employers.

[magicdog]

I was hoping for a bit of advice:

 There was a controversial event at a local library on Saturday and there was a counter protest outside.  I let the news desk know about it as a potential story.  It seems that local media chose not to report the event but while looking for footage of it and alternate news sites that might have covered it, I noticed a protestor who was wearing a station logo shirt while protesting.  Worse still he picked a fight with a counter protestor (hitting him with an umbrella) and they wrestled on the ground for a while.

Now station logo clothing is not like sports logo clothes - only employees and former employees would have them.  I have a strong suspicion as to who this person is (he was wearing a mask and sunglasses to hide his identity ) but not absolute.  As a matter of policy, we are entitled to our beliefs but we are not supposed to be wearing  logo clothing when attending non sanctioned events like this.  I don't know if management knows yet, I haven't said anything yet and am not sure if I should.  If I do, I doubt the person would be fired or otherwise disciplined, perhaps at most an email will go out to remind people that they should not be attending protests wearing our logo.  Anyone who saw this event could think our station sanctions it and of course, officially we don't.  Should I bring it up to management or let it go?  

[supposebly]

I think I would let it go. I'm not sure why, though other than my innate tendency not to interfere with people's lives and of course I tend to avoid conflict as well.

Still, I can't really tell what the consequences would be.

30 minutes ago, magicdog said:

Anyone who saw this event could think our station sanctions it and of course, officially we don't.

Is that really likely? How well-known or obvious is this logo? Is it something people wear at official events? And would people really think because one person was wearing it, the station sanctioned the behaviour?

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, magicdog said:

As a matter of policy, we are entitled to our beliefs but we are not supposed to be wearing  logo clothing when attending non sanctioned events like this.  I don't know if management knows yet, I haven't said anything yet and am not sure if I should.

Is there any way you could get into trouble if management finds out that you knew about this and didn't report it? If so, I would report it if I were you.

Edited October 17, 2022 by chocolatine

[emma675]

20 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

If there's any way you could get into trouble if management finds out that you knew about this and didn't report it? If so, I would report it if I were you.

That's how I was leaning. Don't say who you think the person might be, but CYA if you could get in trouble for knowing about the footage and not saying anything. 

[Jane Tuesday]

4 hours ago, magicdog said:

Anyone who saw this event could think our station sanctions it

I really do feel this is a stretch. I realize a station logo has higher visibility, but I would never assume that because someone was wearing a logo shirt, their actions were the official position of the station. At worse, I would think they have a misbehaving employee, but it's equally possible it's a former employee, or a spouse, or a person who got the shirt in some manner and wears it to look important or deliberately stir up trouble.

In this case, you believe you know who it is, but I don't think Joe Public is going to make this connection. 

[Sweedish Fish]

I work 4 tens at my new job.  I've been there two weeks.  I just realized that I have been leaving a half hour early every day.  Didn't factor in for lunch.😬  I don't think ey are aware of it.  I'm an idiot.

[chocolatine]

15 minutes ago, Sweedish Fish said:

I work 4 tens at my new job.  I've been there two weeks.  I just realized that I have been leaving a half hour early every day.  Didn't factor in for lunch.😬  I don't think ey are aware of it.  I'm an idiot.

The good thing is that you figured it out before your management did. 😀

Edited October 17, 2022 by chocolatine

[theredhead77]

5 hours ago, magicdog said:

I noticed a protestor who was wearing a station logo shirt while protesting.  Worse still he picked a fight with a counter protestor (hitting him with an umbrella) and they wrestled on the ground for a while.

5 hours ago, magicdog said:

As a matter of policy, we are entitled to our beliefs but we are not supposed to be wearing  logo clothing when attending non sanctioned events like this. 

5 hours ago, magicdog said:

Should I bring it up to management or let it go?  

100% report it. Actions have consequences but they are that persons consequences for wearing identifiable clothing to a controversial event and getting in an altercation at said event. It is almost the end of 2022. If someone who wants to start shit doesn't know to go to an event as incognito as possible that is on them.

[magicdog]

9 hours ago, supposebly said:

How well-known or obvious is this logo?

Very obvious and very well known.  We're the top local news news broadcaster in town and the logo itself was full sized on the front of the shirt.  

[SoMuchTV]

17 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Is there any way you could get into trouble if management finds out that you knew about this and didn't report it? If so, I would report it if I were you.

17 hours ago, emma675 said:

That's how I was leaning. Don't say who you think the person might be, but CYA if you could get in trouble for knowing about the footage and not saying anything. 

10 hours ago, magicdog said:

Very obvious and very well known.  We're the top local news news broadcaster in town and the logo itself was full sized on the front of the shirt.  

If it's not too late for more feedback - I come down on the side of "report it".  If it's part of your job to be reviewing the videos, it seems like that's something your management needs to know.  No need to speculate on who it might be - could be someone who bought the shirt at a thrift shop - but they should know the station logo is "out there" in this way.  Especially considering this: 

Quote

I noticed a protestor who was wearing a station logo shirt while protesting.  Worse still he picked a fight with a counter protestor (hitting him with an umbrella) and they wrestled on the ground for a while.

[Angeltoes]

I work in a souvenir shop on the east coast.  We have several stores from Key West to Jersey and we sell who knows how many t-shirts with our logo on them.  As part of our "work uniform" we can wear any of the company logo shirts that we want.  They give us three free ones every year but if we want more then that's on our dime.   One episode of Cops featured a perp being arrested while wearing one of our shirts.  He wasn't an employee but I'm sure management was mortified because they strive hard to have a wholesome image (although the employees loved it!).  However, I was startled to see Donny Osmond's granddaughter wearing one in a picture on Facebook.  Can't get any more wholesome than an Osmond!

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, Angeltoes said:

Can't get any more wholesome than an Osmond!

Just ask Marie's divorce attorney(s) and cosmetic dermatologist(s).

[Cloud9Shopper]

Since a lot of us have been on the job search in recent months, I thought this article would make everyone laugh. (It’s satire but it feels like the interview process never ends anymore…) 

https://archive.ph/PMoKY

[Bookish Jen]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:42 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Since a lot of us have been on the job search in recent months, I thought this article would make everyone laugh. (It’s satire but it feels like the interview process never ends anymore…) 

https://archive.ph/PMoKY

Actually, it made me want to cry. The hoops applicants have to jump through these days is outrageous.

[chocolatine]

I'm amazed at some people's inability to understand the economic climate. Our CEO has announced that we're cutting discretionary spending in order to avoid layoffs and be able to pay performance bonuses. I think we should all be happy to have some job security *and* get our bonuses, but there are still people who moan about the canceled team building events and holiday parties. 🤦‍♀️

[ginger90]

7 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I'm amazed at some people's inability to understand the economic climate. Our CEO has announced that we're cutting discretionary spending in order to avoid layoffs and be able to pay performance bonuses. I think we should all be happy to have some job security *and* get our bonuses, but there are still people who moan about the canceled team building events and holiday parties. 🤦‍♀️

My daughter works in HR at Amazon. She was so glad raises were being announce the day after she went on maternity leave. There were sure to be complaints. Sometimes you just can’t win.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I only started my job about three months ago and am terrified of being laid off, especially since I work in talent acquisition. My firm is still interviewing candidates and sending offers at least, but if the higher ups decide to freeze hiring, I’m likely SOL. The prices of everything are killing me right now; I was crying on my way home from the grocery store because of my food bill, and then I saw that gas (which I need soon) is $3.93 a gallon by me. I won’t survive unless I make 401k withdrawals if a layoff happens. 

Wishing now I had gone into something more recession-proof but I simply don’t have the skills and/or personality type for the “hot” jobs or what’s “in demand.” I have family members who are nurses and I about choke when people say to me “just try it!” Nursing isn’t something you “just try” like coding or graphic design. It takes certain traits to be responsible for people’s lives when they’re sick and possibly dying. At least with coding no one dies if you make a mistake while practicing. 

[Bookish Jen]

Cloud9Shopper I totally get it. I just lost my job, and I'm in fear I will never be employed again. I was out of work for quite a while a few years ago, and it still traumatizes me. I do hope your job isn't on the line. I'm sending you good thoughts.

Okay, I interviewed with a temp agency I worked with a while back last week, and it went quite well. I figure I can temp until I get something permanent. My recruiter did offer me two potential jobs. However, one was 3:00pm to 11:00pm and I don't want to be coming home so late. Plus, I'm not the night owl I used to be. The other job was temp to perm and although the company was impressed by my resume, they felt I was over-qualified, so I didn't get it.

And I am checking out job boards for potential leads. I just wish the job application and interviewing process was such soul-crushing process.

I have spent some of my time cleaning and organizing my apartment, reading lots of books, going to the gym, and walking outside while the weather is still nice.

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Cloud9Shopper I totally get it. I just lost my job, and I'm in fear I will never be employed again. I was out of work for quite a while a few years ago, and it still traumatizes me. I do hope your job isn't on the line. I'm sending you good thoughts.

Okay, I interviewed with a temp agency I worked with a while back last week, and it went quite well. I figure I can temp until I get something permanent. My recruiter did offer me two potential jobs. However, one was 3:00pm to 11:00pm and I don't want to be coming home so late. Plus, I'm not the night owl I used to be. The other job was temp to perm and although the company was impressed by my resume, they felt I was over-qualified, so I didn't get it. 

That’s the reason why I ultimately decided against trying to get a second job in retail or food service or doing a gig app. I just don’t have the energy anymore after working a long day and trying to learn a new field to advance my career there. Plus everyone and their dog is on DoorDash and UberEats trying to make money; it’s only solid income in select cities now that COVID restrictions are pretty much gone. I’m looking to get into freelance writing and editing as a side thing, and while that will take time to get into, those are my skills and what I enjoy, and the advice does say your side hustle should be something you can enjoy. 

We’re still trying to fill three vacancies at my job for summer positions for law students. We’ve had several people turn down offers, and I don’t want to give specifics on the offers themselves (so I won’t reveal the pay or anything), but some of the candidates are asking for crazy amounts of time to consider. We give two weeks per standard procedure and we had one candidate ask for two additional weeks and another ask for an additional month. In both cases, my boss had to compromise and give them less time because we simply can’t wait that long. We have other candidates on hold and we’ve already had offer rejections. I get that it’s a huge decisions for these students and it’s probably still an employee’s market but we also can’t give them an infinite amount of time to choose either. 

I know no one feels sorry for people in my job role or department because everyone hates HR/recruiters, but just wanted to vent at how frustrating the waiting game can be on the other end. I don’t enjoy telling candidates that we had to push back the decision window when I know we could lose some because others are taking a ton of time to decide.