A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Yeah No]

34 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Are you perhaps heavily invested in bonds?  I could see that being recommended for people in their 60s who have a windfall they want to invest.

That period was an outlier in that both stocks and bonds crashed; they usually move more or less in opposite directions.  Stocks have recovered spectacularly.  Bonds have not, although they at least pay dividends.

Whatever the cause, most people who own stocks are very happy with the stock market these days. 

It's only 33% bonds. The rest is various types of stocks. BTW, this is part of the "magic formula" devised by the firm's big finance gurus and algorithms. And it's a big firm with a great reputation. I'm pretty much clueless about stuff like this so I've talked with friends who know more than I do and they've said they don't see anything wrong with the allocations or the returns for someone my age that wants a moderate amount of risk. They just think I was unlucky as to when I started the account. I started the account in March of 2021. Earnings were going steadily up until the end of 2021, but all through 2022 my balance took a steady nosedive until it hit rock bottom in Oct. of 2022, I believe largely due to the war in the Ukraine. Then it started to creep up and by August of 2023 I had made back half of what I lost. But then because of the war in the Middle East it started to plunge again. It wasn't until December of 2023 that it started to go up again. Now that I look at the balance from inception it's really about $9,000 over what I started with in March of 2021. The $3,000 I gave you earlier was I think a different timeframe, but it's still a very small amount of the original balance.

Edited July 23 by Yeah No

[Mod-Tigerkatze]

Hi everyone, 

please allow me to nudge you away from the discussion of generational differences and bonds (feel free to continue it in the Chit Chat topic) and back to the topic of work related woes. 

Thank you! 

 

[Yeah No]

@StatisticalOutlier, if you want to respond to my post above feel free to do it in the general Chit Chat thread.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Got a take home assignment as the first step of a job application today. I guess this will determine if I get an interview LOL.

The assignment is a bit out of my scope but I wanted to give it a try, and the instructions said they anticipated that candidates wouldn’t be able to complete it in the 30 minutes recommended. Since I’m not expecting an interview, I took them to heart on that and set a timer for 30 minutes and decided to do my best. If I don’t get selected (as I expect I won’t) I’m happy with myself for trying. 

I also have a phone interview on Monday for a different position, so hopefully things start looking out soon. My empathy well is dried up so I’m kind of trying to be in survival mode at this point until an offer comes along. 

[BlueSkies]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:42 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Got a take home assignment as the first step of a job application today. I guess this will determine if I get an interview LOL.

The assignment is a bit out of my scope but I wanted to give it a try, and the instructions said they anticipated that candidates wouldn’t be able to complete it in the 30 minutes recommended. Since I’m not expecting an interview, I took them to heart on that and set a timer for 30 minutes and decided to do my best. If I don’t get selected (as I expect I won’t) I’m happy with myself for trying. 

I also have a phone interview on Monday for a different position, so hopefully things start looking out soon. My empathy well is dried up so I’m kind of trying to be in survival mode at this point until an offer comes along. 

I admire your persistence.  You've documented a bit you have a hard time at your job but still work hard to try and do something about it.

 

I was told by my therapist alumni career services is something for me to look into.  I think it costs $$$ though.  Might be worth it.  You are an inspiration to me my friend.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

I admire your persistence.  You've documented a bit you have a hard time at your job but still work hard to try and do something about it.

 

I was told by my therapist alumni career services is something for me to look into.  I think it costs $$$ though.  Might be worth it.  You are an inspiration to me my friend.  

Aw that was really sweet! :) 

I’ve been thinking this weekend that if I ever get a non-customer facing job (hopefully soon…) I just want to leave customer service behind altogether. Even my grocery store customers have been ruder this weekend (demanding to be waited on after my line is closed so they can pay by check, complaining that I gave them a lot of ones when I was low on $5 and $10 bills, complaining that the belt was a little wet when I barely had time to clean it, and on and on). It’s so hard to be front-facing these days because people are so entitled and rude anymore and can’t stand hearing the word “no.”  Like the extra money is nice but having to take people after I’m closed and be held up getting home isn’t. One lady even told a coworker of mine I was rude because I didn’t offer to ring her out when the customer in front of her was trying to figure out an issue with his food stamps card. I mean, sometimes you’re going to have to wait and be patient. I’m sure she wouldn’t care if the line was held up if she were the one who didn’t get a coupon or had an issue with her credit card. 

So I think the new plan now is to hopefully find a non-customer service job, transition to it and then quit the grocery store once everything is settled. 

Edited August 5 by Cloud9Shopper

[Cloud9Shopper]

Feeling frustrated about the phone interview I had yesterday. The recruiter doing the interview seemed clueless. She noted that I had a communications degree and asked why I wanted to go into HR. I didn’t really think my degree mattered for that role, as people get into HR with a variety of backgrounds. She also pointed out that the role requires three years of admin experience and I only had two. It seemed like she was hung up on the wrong things (she even got my job history backwards which made me wonder how much attention she’d even paid to my resume or my LinkedIn, which she had open on the call) and didn’t get why I was interested in the role. She said she would let me know if the hiring manager wanted to meet me but so far no updates.

I was actually supposed to talk to a different recruiter yesterday but things changed (which I know happens) and I got assigned to this one who just seemed flighty and not focused on the interview at all. I don’t know if things would have gone any better with the original recruiter.

At this point I just don’t think a career is going to happen for me. This is the worst time I have ever had finding a job between disorganized, disinterested employers, being hyped up to get a verbal offer only to have the team hire someone else, references being called without an offer on the table…I’m so very tired of it. No platitude or emoji or anything can help me anymore. (I don’t even want those anymore honestly; I can’t take one more “I hope you get something; you deserve it!” or “Hang in there!” or one more smiley face or one more “Don’t worry you’ll find a job!”) I’ve tried being positive and convincing myself I’m employable and confident and someone will want me. No one does. It seems like no matter what I cannot get a break the way others get breaks. I’ve tried it all too…cover letters, referrals, having my resume reviewed, thank you notes…none of it makes a difference. I don’t even know what else to do. Maybe accept that I will always be struggling to survive and working two bottom of the barrel jobs with a college education. 

Edited August 6 by Cloud9Shopper

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'm having a bit of a personal dilemma: I've been invited to a job interview at a small medical university for a full time library assistant position. I worked at a college library in the past and liked it, so I ought to be excited. The problem? I just found out the university in question has certain views that absolutely don't line up with my political and personal beliefs. On one hand, no organization is perfect (I mean, we can't cancel everything out of our lives), but on the other hand, it's something I feel very strongly about, and I don't know if working there would wear on my conscience (assuming I actually get the job). I am old and pragmatic enough to know compromise is a part of life, so what should I do? Skip the interview, or suck it up and give it a shot?

Edited August 7 by Wiendish Fitch

[Browncoat]

Go to the interview.  You don't have to accept the position if they offer it to you.

[Yeah No]

46 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm having a bit of a personal dilemma: I've been invited to a job interview at a small medical university for a full time library assistant position. I worked at a college library in the past and liked it, so I ought to be excited. The problem? I just found out the university in question has certain views that absolutely don't line up with my political and personal beliefs. On one hand, no organization is perfect (I mean, we can't cancel everything out of our lives), but on the other hand, it's something I feel very strongly about, and I don't know if working there would wear on my conscience (assuming I actually get the job). I am old and pragmatic enough to know compromise is a part of life, so what should I do? Skip the interview, or suck it up and give it a shot?

I would go. I went to and worked at a university that was associated with a church that held some beliefs I didn't agree with either but the association between the university and the church was not that direct anymore (at one time it had been) and there were many people there of different beliefs so I was able to look past it. And like @Browncoat said, you don't have to take the job. If nothing else, I tried to see such interviews as learning experiences.

[KittyMom4]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm having a bit of a personal dilemma: I've been invited to a job interview at a small medical university for a full time library assistant position. I worked at a college library in the past and liked it, so I ought to be excited. The problem? I just found out the university in question has certain views that absolutely don't line up with my political and personal beliefs. On one hand, no organization is perfect (I mean, we can't cancel everything out of our lives), but on the other hand, it's something I feel very strongly about, and I don't know if working there would wear on my conscience (assuming I actually get the job). I am old and pragmatic enough to know compromise is a part of life, so what should I do? Skip the interview, or suck it up and give it a shot?

Go to the interview, my daughter got a job where all of her coworkers hold political and religious views that she disagrees with. She enjoys the work and her coworkers, she's just learned to go with the flow, make non-committal remarks or just not say anything at all. 

[emma675]

I third the call to go to the interview, @Wiendish Fitch. It never hurts to see if it's worth it and if not, you won't spend any more time wondering if you should have gone.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Thank you all for the advice. I'll take a chance and go, kill the "what-ifs". Besides, I haven't been to a live interview in a while, so it'll be good to get back into practice.

[SoMuchTV]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Thank you all for the advice. I'll take a chance and go, kill the "what-ifs". Besides, I haven't been to a live interview in a while, so it'll be good to get back into practice.

For me, I think the only deal breaker would be if the university required you to have those same beliefs.  I worked for years as a contractor in the IT department of a university that required actual employees to agree to a statement of faith or something similar, something I could never in good conscience have signed off on.  But in all those years I worked with perfectly nice people, and none of those beliefs were ever the least bit of an issue.

But on the other hand, I can see how working in the library might be a little different than working in IT.  But on the third hand, totally agree that it's a good idea to check it out and keep an open mind.  Good luck!

[partofme]

7 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm having a bit of a personal dilemma: I've been invited to a job interview at a small medical university for a full time library assistant position. I worked at a college library in the past and liked it, so I ought to be excited. The problem? I just found out the university in question has certain views that absolutely don't line up with my political and personal beliefs. On one hand, no organization is perfect (I mean, we can't cancel everything out of our lives), but on the other hand, it's something I feel very strongly about, and I don't know if working there would wear on my conscience (assuming I actually get the job). I am old and pragmatic enough to know compromise is a part of life, so what should I do? Skip the interview, or suck it up and give it a shot?

I think for me it would depend on how central those views are to the company’s mission.   I can think of a college in Virginia that I’d never want to be associated with.   There’s also a media company that I would never want to work for.  But then again I’m currently out of work so if these companies wanted to interview me or offer me a job, though there’s no reason I can think of that they would want to as I don’t have a background in that industry, I don’t know if I would be in a position to stick with my beliefs.  

[Wiendish Fitch]

I finally had my interview, and I am positive that I didn't get it. I guess I'm not heartbroken, but I just hate knowing it was my fault (I must have left my confidence in the car). Oh, well, best to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. 

[Spartan Girl]

12 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I finally had my interview, and I am positive that I didn't get it. I guess I'm not heartbroken, but I just hate knowing it was my fault (I must have left my confidence in the car). Oh, well, best to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. 

Now, now, you can’t know that for sure. Everyone gets nervous at interviews and it doesn’t automatically mean anything.

[Dimity]

3 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Now, now, you can’t know that for sure. Everyone gets nervous at interviews and it doesn’t automatically mean anything.

So true.  I remember an interview I had where I went home and told my husband "well at least I got to see (town where interview was held) but I doubt I'll ever go back"  and three days later they called to offer me the job.  So you really never know.

[Dimity]

I was wondering what people think about the trend of working from home.  I'm really torn on whether I think it's a good idea or not.  

On the one hand I can see the advantages (no commute being a big one).  Then on the other hand I know people who are working from home and who are going to the Farmer's Market, taking the dog for long walks, volunteering at their child's school etc etc - all on the company dime. 

On the other other hand if they can do all that and still do all the work expected of them does that really matter?  And of course on the other other other hand does working from home limit your ability to move forward within your company, make connections with colleagues, etc etc?

 

Edited August 13 by Dimity

[Bastet]

I've been working from home for years, and you'd have to drug and hogtie me to drag me back into an office.

[EtheltoTillie]

45 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I was wondering what people think about the trend of working from home.  I'm really torn on whether I think it's a good idea or not.  

On the one hand I can see the advantages (no commute being a big one).  Then on the other hand I know people who are working from home and who are going to the Farmer's Market, taking the dog for long walks, volunteering at their child's school etc etc - all on the company dime. 

On the other other hand if they can do all that and still do all the work expected of them does that really matter?  And of course on the other other other hand does working from home limit your ability to move forward within your company, make connections with colleagues, etc etc?

 

All of the above!

[EtheltoTillie]

I love my office!  I sublet space in a suite with other lawyers.  It's an easy commute (a few subway stops), and I have a great setup here that I don't have at home. I have a great view and lots of light.  Now that I moved from the other suite with the toxic office manager, it's even better.  I have a work station for my part time assistant.  I can see clients here.  I couldn't do that at home.  I get more done than I would at home.  I like being around the other people, and there are no office politics, as I work for myself. 

If I didn't have the easy commute, I might feel differently. 

Edited August 13 by EtheltoTillie

[Dimity]

12 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I like being around the other people, and there are no office politics, as I work for myself.

When I went back to work when my kids were small a big motivator was to get out of the house!   Aside from which, due to the kind of work I did - librarian mainly public and special libraries - working from home really wasn't an option. 

In the last few years before I officially retired I was doing contracts for a govt department   and worked from home once Covid closed down offices.   I didn't mind working from home but I missed being around other people (and being downtown near restaurants and shops) - did not miss the commute for sure - but I also realized I don't have the self discipline to work well from home.  

[StatisticalOutlier]

6 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Oh, well, best to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. 

Alternatively, perhaps you dodged a bullet.

[Bookworm 1979]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

On the one hand I can see the advantages (no commute being a big one).  Then on the other hand I know people who are working from home and who are going to the Farmer's Market, taking the dog for long walks, volunteering at their child's school etc etc - all on the company dime. 

I worked from home during Covid and I was always logged in during business hours. The great thing is I'm a much better worker early in the morning, so I would start extra-early and have seven or eight hours logged in by lunch. Then if I wanted to do some cleaning in the afternoon I could-but I was always logged in and could still respond to any questions as needed.  Plus, I was able to get tons of work done because I wasn't constantly being interrupted.

My whole job has been overhauled since then (the admin assistant was promoted), so I will probably never get to work from home again.  :(

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

And of course on the other other other hand does working from home limit your ability to move forward within your company, make connections with colleagues, etc etc?

I work for the good ol' boys club and don't have a penis, so no danger of me getting to move forward, no matter how hard I work!  I'm trying to bide my time until  I can qualify for early retirement (still about 12 years away).

[PRgal]

I've been working from home since 2010 (save for attending press/media events as a blogger) and love the flexibility.  It's great for us parents.  As long as you get everything done, you're fine.  I get to meet people at events and I have a gym membership, so it's not like I don't get to socialize!  However, it doesn't mean that I get to do housework and dinner still isn't always ready when it SHOULD be ready!

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Then on the other hand I know people who are working from home and who are going to the Farmer's Market, taking the dog for long walks, volunteering at their child's school etc etc - all on the company dime. 

On the other other hand if they can do all that and still do all the work expected of them does that really matter? 

Do their employers know they're doing all that on the company dime?  Seems to me it might change the expectations.

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I like working from home. But…I’d be willing to go to the office for the right job too if that’s what it took.

I have an interview on Thursday which I’m excited about. Although…I almost decided against going in. The hiring manager said they already have a candidate coming in for a second round interview so she wanted me to come in quicker, and I felt a little hesitant because I thought “what if she just wants to waste my time and already knows she wants to hire this other candidate?” But I decided to do it, as the job is in line with what I’m looking for and would be a great opportunity. And the fact that she wants me to come in ASAP is a good sign that she at least wants to compare me to whoever else is in the pool and give me a chance. So it doesn’t seem like she is just interviewing me because she’s bored and wants to fill a half an hour to an hour. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

So it doesn’t seem like she is just interviewing me because she’s bored and wants to fill a half an hour to an hour. 

Nobody takes time out of their day to interview someone because they're bored.  People may have to interview someone they're not particularly - or at all - interested in because of some outside factor (e.g. as a courtesy to someone else or as a pretext to make it look like a diverse pool of candidates was actually considered), but they don't decide to do it to kill time.  So, yeah, if there's no "Oh, she's just bringing me in because X" scenario apparent, she wants to see how you compare.

[Yeah No]

On 8/13/2024 at 6:15 PM, Dimity said:

I was wondering what people think about the trend of working from home.  I'm really torn on whether I think it's a good idea or not.  

On the one hand I can see the advantages (no commute being a big one).  Then on the other hand I know people who are working from home and who are going to the Farmer's Market, taking the dog for long walks, volunteering at their child's school etc etc - all on the company dime. 

On the other other hand if they can do all that and still do all the work expected of them does that really matter?  And of course on the other other other hand does working from home limit your ability to move forward within your company, make connections with colleagues, etc etc?

I'm torn too. I think working from home works better for some jobs and companies but not others. I think ideally I would have liked to work in the office for 3 days a week and the rest at home.

I personally think it does matter and those people that "can do all that" and still get all their work done likely don't have enough work. If their supervisors could see them they would definitely not be happy about it and would seek to find better ways to "utilize" their time. And that is another "con" to the work-from- home situation - that bosses are unable to get a true reading on how much or little employees are doing. Many bosses have never done the jobs of their subordinates so they don't even know how long it takes to handle their work unless they see how their employees are doing on a regular basis in person where it's harder to hide that you don't have that much to do.

As far as moving forward in a company in order to be noticed you have to be somewhere where people can notice you and who you are as a person is a part of it too. Employers have to feel like they like and get along personally with their employees and can communicate well with them. It's not all about their performance. And how would they have much opportunity to know whether they mesh well with a person without much in-person contact? Some jobs may not require much teamwork but others might and not having that face-to-face interaction I think makes collaboration that much harder and I don't care how many Zoom meetings one has to try to make up for that. They are somehow not the best for certain kinds of meetings. Even before the pandemic my companies had video conferencing technology and used it a lot when necessary, like when meeting with the overseas dept. members, but dept. heads still felt that they needed in-person meetings for many reasons and I get why that is.

Also as someone with an interpersonal/psychological bent, I don't think in the long run that most people thrive both as people and professionally without at least some in-person contact with their coworkers and bosses. Everyone seems to love the idea of not having to leave the house and walking around in their pajamas all day but I personally see too much of that as not enriching and fulfilling in the same way as working in an office with other people. You become a "pod" person all unto yourself and I personally don't find that as good for a person's body/mind/soul as having to interact in person with coworkers and bosses. I say that in spite of being a die-hard introvert, too. I know I need something to force me out of my shell or I get stale and lonely. I don't have a lot of face-to-face contact with anyone anymorea since I've retired and I miss the interaction I had with people at work. There was a sense of community with them that is not possible working from home all the time and again, no amount of Zoom meetings will make up for that. I still think a mix of at home/at the office is the best compromise.

[chitowngirl]

When my daughter got a new job, she negotiated working from home on Fridays and Mondays and is in the office Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. The best of both worlds!

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

When my daughter got a new job, she negotiated working from home on Fridays and Mondays and is in the office Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. The best of both worlds!

That is my schedule as well! We only had to come in two days once the office opened up in 2022 (Fully remote when pandemic hit), but more than a few took advantage and didn’t come in the two days, so they decided on three days in office going forward last Fall. Since Wednesday is the set “required” day, we got to choose which days, and I picked Tuesdays-Thursdays. We have flexibility-if we have doctor appointments or other conflicts.

[BlueSkies]

The past week I saw a woman and her daughter at a deli.  The only thing that stood out was she had on a shirt from the company I work at.  I have the same shirt.

 

I work for a big company so it’s probable she doesn’t actually work at the same location as me.  I was going to say something to her but decided not too.  
 

Part of that is I think not exactly having the most pride in the corporation I work for.  

 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Feeling annoyed because I didn’t get payment from the company I freelanced for on time on Friday. And yes I checked the contract I signed for them to confirm they should have issued payment this past Friday. It was a 60-day invoice, and they say they will pay no later than the first Friday after the invoice is due. Well, the due date was the 20th and here I am…still waiting on payment. No one communicated any issues with payment and no one has responded to my emails, one sent Friday to inform them of the non-payment and the other this morning to reattach the late invoice and remind them that they owe it. 

I need this money. It is over $300 and I have two invoices due next month. Needless to say I am not just going to sit back quietly. I hope they are ready for me to take up residence in their inboxes every day until I receive payment or they tell me what is going on. 

[KittyMom4]

On 8/13/2024 at 6:15 PM, Dimity said:

Then on the other hand I know people who are working from home and who are going to the Farmer's Market, taking the dog for long walks, volunteering at their child's school etc etc - all on the company dime.

Please don't assume they are doing this "on the clock" one of my coworkers who is fully remote splits her day, she logs on early, works for 3-4 hours, punches out and runs errands, goes to the gym, preps dinner, or just reads a book for a couple hours, then punches back in and works the rest of her day. She has a job that sometimes requires her to work until 6-7p, sometimes later depending, so she is able to get her 8 hours of work in while not burning herself out. 

 

On 8/13/2024 at 8:01 PM, Bookworm 1979 said:

The great thing is I'm a much better worker early in the morning, so I would start extra-early and have seven or eight hours logged in by lunch. Then if I wanted to do some cleaning in the afternoon I could-but I was always logged in and could still respond to any questions as needed.  Plus, I was able to get tons of work done because I wasn't constantly being interrupted

This is what I do when I am remote. I'd rather start early and get my work done so I can enjoy the afternoon before my husband gets home from work. 

On 8/16/2024 at 12:31 AM, Yeah No said:

There was a sense of community with them that is not possible working from home all the time and again, no amount of Zoom meetings will make up for that. I still think a mix of at home/at the office is the best compromise

When I started my new position, I was offered fully remote and declined for exactly these reasons. I was starting with a new team and wanted to get to know them and them to get to know me. They are all younger so there's already a something that separates me, and they'd worked in this field for years where I was brand new to it. I have always worked in person so it would have been a HUGE shock to my system to start a new job and be remote. I was already leaving coworkers I'd worked with for 20+  years, it would have made me miserable to be home with no personal connections. 

We have flexible remote days, 2 a week that we can use if we want to, so it's really the best of both worlds for me. 

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, KittyMom4 said:

Please don't assume they are doing this "on the clock"

I am not making assumptions about people I don't know or don't know well.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I am still trying to get paid for my freelance work where payment is already a week late. Today I finally got a hold of someone (since no one had responded to my earlier emails) who then bounced my email to another person to handle. Who then basically sent what looked like an auto reply that basically said “we are looking into this and will get back to you ASAP.”

Seriously? That’s all you have after nearly a week of delayed payment? The answer should have been an apology and issuing me a check! Or at minimum an explanation of any delays and a concrete timeline of when they will be paying!! Not pushing me off to someone who just sent a “oh well look into it” auto response.

After this I will no longer perform any services for this company. Unprofessional and unacceptable. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

On top of not getting my freelance pay, I finally got a job offer…and it’s a terrible offer. Same hourly pay as what I make now, completely on-site (so same pay with needing to pay increased clothing and gas costs), increased healthcare costs if I stay with a PPO…and the worst part is the PTO. You only get one week in January and July of each year, and since come January I wouldn’t be there six months they would prorate that so I would maybe get one day. (Oh and you have to wait 10 years to get more than five days every six months; then it increases to 7.5 days.) I don’t take a lot of vacation time but even given that, nine months is way too long for me to wait to earn a week off. Even my current lousy job gives two weeks of vacation and two weeks of sick time. I wasn’t allowed to use vacation time in the first few months of that job because of my probationary period, but now it’s largely no problem. 

Also, the office would be open on Black Friday and would only close an hour early on New Year’s Eve. (It’s not an essential service like an office in a hospital or even something like supporting retail or food service that needs to be open. It’s a law firm but even my first two firms were closed on Black Friday.) At my current place I get both of those days off. I know these are minor benefits and plenty of offices open NYE but I have a great holiday package and PTO now. 

So disappointing to do all this work to get an offer, go on interviews and miss work, only to be handed a steaming pile of BS as an offer. For various reasons, I’m not at a point in my life where I’m willing to accept any crappy package just to leave my current job. Of course I would need a reality check if I were out of work or about to lose my job but still thinking of turning down this offer. But this just isn’t worth it for more expensive healthcare, reduced PTO time, and no hourly pay increase. And my boss gives me rave reviews and confirmed he hasn’t gotten any negative feedback about me from other supervisors in recent weeks and months. The stresses of my job suck to be sure, but being at a place where I’m valued and have solid benefits and no-drama coworkers is worth it too. 

 

Edited August 30 by Cloud9Shopper

[Blergh]

I'm putting this out there because. ..

Why is it that when one attempts to notify other entities of issues and said entities don't respond much less acknowledge having been notified that somehow that's the fault of the attempted notifiers because. ..why?

[isalicat]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:51 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

On top of not getting my freelance pay, I finally got a job offer…and it’s a terrible offer. Same hourly pay as what I make now, completely on-site (so same pay with needing to pay increased clothing and gas costs), increased healthcare costs if I stay with a PPO…and the worst part is the PTO. You only get one week in January and July of each year, and since come January I wouldn’t be there six months they would prorate that so I would maybe get one day. (Oh and you have to wait 10 years to get more than five days every six months; then it increases to 7.5 days.) I don’t take a lot of vacation time but even given that, nine months is way too long for me to wait to earn a week off. Even my current lousy job gives two weeks of vacation and two weeks of sick time. I wasn’t allowed to use vacation time in the first few months of that job because of my probationary period, but now it’s largely no problem. 

Also, the office would be open on Black Friday and would only close an hour early on New Year’s Eve. (It’s not an essential service like an office in a hospital or even something like supporting retail or food service that needs to be open. It’s a law firm but even my first two firms were closed on Black Friday.) At my current place I get both of those days off. I know these are minor benefits and plenty of offices open NYE but I have a great holiday package and PTO now. 

So disappointing to do all this work to get an offer, go on interviews and miss work, only to be handed a steaming pile of BS as an offer. For various reasons, I’m not at a point in my life where I’m willing to accept any crappy package just to leave my current job. Of course I would need a reality check if I were out of work or about to lose my job but still thinking of turning down this offer. But this just isn’t worth it for more expensive healthcare, reduced PTO time, and no hourly pay increase. And my boss gives me rave reviews and confirmed he hasn’t gotten any negative feedback about me from other supervisors in recent weeks and months. The stresses of my job suck to be sure, but being at a place where I’m valued and have solid benefits and no-drama coworkers is worth it too. 

 

You did not mention if this job offer is for a transition into a career opportunity that would be in a field outside customer service, which seemed to be a big priority for you. If so...would that not be worth the trade off so that your first year will be much harder, but in the long run you would have more possibility for advancement, higher salary, etc.? If not, then understandable that this would be a big "No!"...

[BlueSkies]

On 8/30/2024 at 7:51 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

On top of not getting my freelance pay, I finally got a job offer…and it’s a terrible offer. Same hourly pay as what I make now, completely on-site (so same pay with needing to pay increased clothing and gas costs), increased healthcare costs if I stay with a PPO…and the worst part is the PTO. You only get one week in January and July of each year, and since come January I wouldn’t be there six months they would prorate that so I would maybe get one day. (Oh and you have to wait 10 years to get more than five days every six months; then it increases to 7.5 days.) I don’t take a lot of vacation time but even given that, nine months is way too long for me to wait to earn a week off. Even my current lousy job gives two weeks of vacation and two weeks of sick time. I wasn’t allowed to use vacation time in the first few months of that job because of my probationary period, but now it’s largely no problem. 

Also, the office would be open on Black Friday and would only close an hour early on New Year’s Eve. (It’s not an essential service like an office in a hospital or even something like supporting retail or food service that needs to be open. It’s a law firm but even my first two firms were closed on Black Friday.) At my current place I get both of those days off. I know these are minor benefits and plenty of offices open NYE but I have a great holiday package and PTO now. 

So disappointing to do all this work to get an offer, go on interviews and miss work, only to be handed a steaming pile of BS as an offer. For various reasons, I’m not at a point in my life where I’m willing to accept any crappy package just to leave my current job. Of course I would need a reality check if I were out of work or about to lose my job but still thinking of turning down this offer. But this just isn’t worth it for more expensive healthcare, reduced PTO time, and no hourly pay increase. And my boss gives me rave reviews and confirmed he hasn’t gotten any negative feedback about me from other supervisors in recent weeks and months. The stresses of my job suck to be sure, but being at a place where I’m valued and have solid benefits and no-drama coworkers is worth it too. 

 

I hear ya' 

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, BlueSkies said:

I hear ya' 

Honestly the more I think about it, the more I’m not willing to sacrifice the great benefits I have. Now I understand the women I met during a summer office job 20 years ago…I asked why they stay when they said they didn’t like the job (I was like 17 when I asked this question, so cut me a break here), and they said it was because of the benefits.

Now that I’m almost 40 their reasoning makes a lot of sense. It’s hard to think about giving up all my accumulated time and affordable health insurance to start back at the bottom and have to go without pay if I were to miss a day before the end of the year. 

I’ve come to learn that I can no longer look at job offers like I did 10 years ago (or even less than five) when I would just be anxious to escape something I hated or would only consider better pay. Times and priorities are different. 

Edited September 2 by Cloud9Shopper

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Honestly the more I think about it, the more I’m not willing to sacrifice the great benefits I have. Now I understand the women I met during a summer office job 20 years ago…I asked why they stay when they said they didn’t like the job (I was like 17 when I asked this question, so cut me a break here), and they said it was because of the benefits.

Now that I’m almost 40 their reasoning makes a lot of sense. It’s hard to think about giving up all my accumulated time and affordable health insurance to start back at the bottom and have to go without pay if I were to miss a day before the end of the year. 

I’ve come to learn that I can no longer look at job offers like I did 10 years ago (or even less than five) when I would just be anxious to escape something I hated or would only consider better pay. Times and priorities are different. 

I would be lying if I said that good benefits weren't a big reason I stayed in my last 4 jobs. Of course depending on the job there were other reasons too like great bosses, coworkers, being valued and actually liking the work. Although in my last job the negative factors basically canceled out any of the plusses but even so the benefits were a big reason I stayed.

I can remember turning down jobs based on benefits. Sometimes the salary wasn't as important as the benefits. I even accepted a lower salary because the benefits were so great. Usually the better companies offer the better benefits so you're also choosing the company. And that meant something to me too. I didn't want to take jobs at smaller, lesser known companies either because often even a lesser job at a better company looked better on a resume than a better job at a lesser company.

One of my friends' daughters is in her 30s. She worked her way up from scooping ice cream to district manager with Ben and Jerry's but despite loving working there and feeling valued, etc., she never got the pay she felt she was worth. Sometimes that happens when you start from the ground up in a company, unfortunately. She ended up like you, trying forever and never able to find something on that level that paid better somewhere else so she ended up in customer service at a very big, well known insurance company. It actually pays as well as her former job if you can believe that, and the benefits are AMAZING. At first she HATED it and called her father every day crying, but I remember telling him that getting a job there was like the freaking holy grail and she'd better not give up on it so soon. I would have loved to get a job there and believe me, I tried but somehow never had any luck. Anyway she has since "done the math" and has come around to appreciating what she has. 

She reminds me of me when I left higher ed. and ended up getting a job typing financial statements at Deloitte. Boy did that feel like a come down after getting a Master's degree! But when I moved to CT the jobs in higher ed. that required my degree paid much less than they did in NY and they didn't even pay so well there. And there weren't that many available. So I had to be realistic. I remember when I got that job (I was in my mid 30s at the time) my mother was ecstatic and told me I'd better take it because Deloitte had such a good reputation. I listened to her and never regretted it. It was one of my best jobs ever and it led to a job as an executive admin. And of course the benefits were fantastic and it looked good on my resume too. It's always been the irony of my life that what I thought was going to be the worst job ever and the biggest come down turned out to be the biggest stepping stone and career changer ever. And I still have very fond memories of working there. And now I think my friend's daughter is having a similar experience. 

 

[Yeah No]

Here's another story in a similar vein of sticking with a job for the benefits - My long time BFF in NYC never finished college due to life problems and was floundering around in temp. jobs in Manhattan for years when she asked for my advice on where to look for a job that didn't feel like hell on earth. Like me, she didn't like the stress and "rat race" of the NYC business world so I told her maybe she might consider getting a job in higher education because it was a "kinder/gentler" atmosphere. At the time I was working at my alma mater, Fordham. So she took a job as the admin. to the associate dean of the NYU law school. The job paid crap and was either paradise or hell depending on who the Associate Dean was at any given time over the 30 years she worked there. She had to tough it out living with roommates for a while, but then her parents died a decade later and left her a "cushion" which she used to supplement her income for many years.

Then a couple of years ago when she was considering retiring she started to voice fears of not being able to afford her apartment if she did. I asked her what kind of pension she would be getting from NYU and in true form she told me she didn't know and didn't think it would be that much because she "never contributed to it". I told her that probably didn't matter in NYU's case and to check on it because I was sure she would be getting a nice amount. I can't believe she never kept track of it for all those years, but when she did call them she was blown away by how much she would be getting. On top of that NYU is basically paying her Medicare premiums and giving her an ultra cheap price on a Medicare supplemental plan that's as good as the best one you can buy. She also gets more perks I can't even remember. And she never knew any of this! So anyway it made her happy she never bailed on the job and stuck it out until she was ready to retire.

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I would be lying if I said that good benefits weren't a big reason I stayed in my last 4 jobs. Of course depending on the job there were other reasons too like great bosses, coworkers, being valued and actually liking the work. Although in my last job the negative factors basically canceled out any of the plusses but even so the benefits were a big reason I stayed.

I can remember turning down jobs based on benefits. Sometimes the salary wasn't as important as the benefits. I even accepted a lower salary because the benefits were so great. Usually the better companies offer the better benefits so you're also choosing the company. And that meant something to me too. I didn't want to take jobs at smaller, lesser known companies either because often even a lesser job at a better company looked better on a resume than a better job at a lesser company.

One of my friends' daughters is in her 30s. She worked her way up from scooping ice cream to district manager with Ben and Jerry's but despite loving working there and feeling valued, etc., she never got the pay she felt she was worth. Sometimes that happens when you start from the ground up in a company, unfortunately. She ended up like you, trying forever and never able to find something on that level that paid better somewhere else so she ended up in customer service at a very big, well known insurance company. It actually pays as well as her former job if you can believe that, and the benefits are AMAZING. At first she HATED it and called her father every day crying, but I remember telling him that getting a job there was like the freaking holy grail and she'd better not give up on it so soon. I would have loved to get a job there and believe me, I tried but somehow never had any luck. Anyway she has since "done the math" and has come around to appreciating what she has. 

She reminds me of me when I left higher ed. and ended up getting a job typing financial statements at Deloitte. Boy did that feel like a come down after getting a Master's degree! But when I moved to CT the jobs in higher ed. that required my degree paid much less than they did in NY and they didn't even pay so well there. And there weren't that many available. So I had to be realistic. I remember when I got that job (I was in my mid 30s at the time) my mother was ecstatic and told me I'd better take it because Deloitte had such a good reputation. I listened to her and never regretted it. It was one of my best jobs ever and it led to a job as an executive admin. And of course the benefits were fantastic and it looked good on my resume too. It's always been the irony of my life that what I thought was going to be the worst job ever and the biggest come down turned out to be the biggest stepping stone and career changer ever. And I still have very fond memories of working there. And now I think my friend's daughter is having a similar experience. 

 

I think appreciating what I have is a big key as I take the rest of today and tonight to think this over and make my final choice. I do know that even though I don’t like my job, that I have a manager who appreciates me and wants to see me move up, my coworkers by and large don’t get on my nerves and they don’t start any drama. That’s on top of having nice time off at holidays and affordable health insurance. 

I’m not saying the people at my potential job wouldn’t support me and would be mean or anything (they seem great) but at this stage of my life it’s hard to give up a lot of the comforts I have to start back at the bottom again. I could always stay at my current job and look at alternative career paths to get out of customer service since my current chosen field of HR is not working out at all for me to break into. 

[ginger90]

44 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

my current chosen field of HR

Do you have a degree, certifications, and/or experience in HR? 

[Yeah No]

HR is a tough field and not what most people think it's all about. This man on Linkedin tells it like it is:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/human-resources-career-nice-people-brian-walker/

I even think he's being too forgiving. I'll agree that back in the '90s and before HR was about being "fair" but that was a long time ago. Increasingly HR is about doing whatever management wants done even if it's VERY unfair. Making heads roll on management's whim, engaging in unethical practices, etc., etc. HR is often the most hated dept. in a company and that is often for a good reason. They get the heat for whatever management puts them up to. I'm talking from experience here. I never worked in HR but I've been on the observing and receiving end of it enough times to know. Truly "nice" people go into HR only to find themselves the "henchmen" for evil TPTB at the very top. OK not all companies have evil, unethical people at the top but it's become increasingly impersonal and not about "employee development" or "enrichment" or whatever they try to claim it is and more about hiring the "right" people based on everything other than whether they have the best skills and experience. So no, I don't even think HR is about being "fair" anymore let alone "nice".

Back in the '80s through the mid '90s I felt that HR was on my side. If I had a problem, HR was concerned and wanted to know how to help, and they often did. I felt personally "mentored" by the HR reps. that served my departments and to this day I remember them very fondly. Somewhere in the early 2000s something started to change and not for the better in my opinion. Toward the end HR acted like you were the peon and it was protecting whatever management's interests were. They only "cared" about you if management thought you were someone they thought was "desirable" and that was often based on your age or how much revenue they felt you generated for the company. Management loves to make young hires think they care about them and want to develop their talents and to some extent they do, but everyone else is treated like they're a nuisance and expendable especially over the age of 50. And I'm by far not the only person at my last two jobs that felt that way.

Anyway, and I realize this may sound harsh, if you want to sell your soul to the devil, go work in HR in a big company. If you think you're getting a raw deal in continually being passed over for a job, why do you think you would feel any better about having to give that raw deal to other people that equally don't deserve it? Do you want to be the messenger of and up-close observer of many uncaring, unethical and unfair things being done to nice people? These are many of the reasons I decided not to go into HR. Like I say, I realize there are exceptions but after searching for a job for so many years toward the end I stopped seeing so many exceptions anymore. A lot of the people I met in HR in the past decade have not been the "nicest" people and in my opinion have zero "people skills" and no business working with people at all. People that have real people skills usually truly care about other people and you can't care that much about them if you're going to work in HR today.

Just my humble opinion. 

Edited September 2 by Yeah No

[Bastet]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:51 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

You only get one week in January and July of each year, and since come January I wouldn’t be there six months they would prorate that so I would maybe get one day. (Oh and you have to wait 10 years to get more than five days every six months; then it increases to 7.5 days.)

This is appalling, even within the fucked up American system.  It would be a hard pass for me; there's no way work-life balance is respected in a firm that thinks this is an acceptable PTO policy.

Edited September 2 by Bastet

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

This is appalling, even within the fucked-up American system.  It would be a hard pass for me; there's no way work-life balance is respected in a firm that thinks this is an acceptable PTO policy.

I agree. It's also the sign of a low-end company where the atmosphere would not be so great and the people you work with would not be your peers. A recipe for dissatisfaction.

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

This is appalling, even within the fucked up American system.  It would be a hard pass for me; there's no way work-life balance is respected in a firm that thinks this is an acceptable PTO policy.

The hiring manager clarified the policy and said I would get 2.5 days in January. Even then, it’s still not enough. Who can afford to take unpaid time off these days with the cost of everything continuously going up?