RIP: Characters We've Loved and Lost

[lumibutterfly]

Let's talk about those who didn't survive.

I'll offer up Mika first. She was a gentle child, and the only one who knew just how insane her sister was. She loved science, and in a better world would have grown up and gone to college and made a good life for herself. In this world, her death was inevitable (although the nature of it was something noone else could have expected). 

[David T. Cole]

Just going to spoiler tag the thread since it's all about characters dying.

[lumibutterfly]

Sorry, David. I should've thought to do that.

[Omar G.]

I miss Hershel.

[halgia]

If Dale had died like four episodes earlier, he would have been sorely missed. As-is, the whole magically-figuring-out-everything-that-happened-with-Shane plot kind of soured his memory for me.

[kikismom]

I'll bring up Jim's name, since nobody ever mentions him. I often wonder if the characters now realize that he has to have turned, since he refused the offer of a gun, and at the time they hadn't been to the CDC so they didn't know that much about putting live people down or staying till someone's dead to stop the brain.

Edited March 31, 2014 by kikismom

[TheBitchyWife]

I miss Hershel too - I thought he was super annoying at first but I would say he was my favorite character at the time he died.  The episode when he was taking care of all the sick and had to deal with the zombie prison riot was heartbreaking. 

I was also fascinated by Jim's decision not to take a gun, that he wanted to "be with his family" so he wanted to turn.  But then I don't know if I read that somewhere or made it up.

[lumibutterfly]

Hershel was the person who most retained his humanity through all of this. So of course he had to die at the hands of the man who had embraced brutality. I hope the show doesn't forget how much he meant to everyone still alive. 

[SamIAm]

I came into the show late, I binge watched the first 3 seasons and started with the fourth. My husband had been watching it all along. I was so pissed at him for not warning me about Sophia becoming a walker. That episode was horrible.

[Omar G.]

Hershel! Yay!

[asha]

I had a Yay! followed by a crushed-all-over-again reaction to seeing Hershel on tonight's Walking Dead. For sure, he's the only one I've missed. I guess it would have been nice if Noah Emmerich's character had stuck around for a bit longer, so he could laugh in Eugene's face now.

[matilda76]

I miss Hershel of course, but I also wish Milton could've made a permanent move over to the group. He was an interesting character: creepy at first, but when you peeled back a few layers, he was someone who had a conscience.

[kikismom]

At first I wanted Carol to end up with Herschel. I still think it would have been good for both of them.

[kikismom]

A Musical Tribute To Eyeglasses Guy

(to the tune of "Memories" from Cats...and I refuse to apologize to Andrew Lloyd Webber)

 

Zombies!

I'm all alone with the Zombies!

The feeding frenzy will begin!

They are eating my eye...

I remember the time I knew what sympathy was

Looks like I've been

Screwed again.

 

Rick and Michonne

Held Carl back

By the human race I'm betrayed...

The second time

Richonne and Carl

Don't get involved;

Team Zombie Could! Go! All! The! Way!

 

Ditch me!

It's so easy to leave me

All alone with the zombies

While you just cut and run!

When I come back

You'll understand the last thing I saw

Cause I remember

WHO YOU ARE!

Edited April 8, 2014 by kikismom

[HighMaintenance]

I wished they had kept Milton.  He was like a much more adorkable version of Eugene.  I also had wished they had swapped Amy and Andrea.  Even as far as the Woodbury story line.  At least her youth could have explained how the Gov'nuh could pull the wool over someone's eyes.  AND, if we kept Amy, perhaps we would have no need for Beth.

I also think Jacquie would have made a more interesting long term character.  Hey, we don't know for certain that Jacquie and Jenner bit it in the explosion.  Maybe the control room was spared?

[eejm]

I felt really bad for Jacqui for the simple reason that Dale was literally willing to die before letting Andrea stay at the CDC...and he kind of ignored the fact that Jacqui was doing the same thing.  Um, thanks for caring, Dale.

[kikismom]

HighMaintenance: I like your recommendations on switcheroos of the dead. I think we could get through the summer hiatus with a nice fan-fiction revision of the first 4 seasons:

Ed is with the group on a run at the dept. store in Atlanta. He is foul-mouthed and hits women and is chained to a pipe on the roof. No one goes back to get him. Back at the campfire, Andrea comes out of the Winnebago complaining "There's no more batteries-" and is fatally bitten by a walker. Many people are attacked, including Lori who was bitten on the stomach and is left by the side of the road. At the CDC, Jim stays to commit suicide with Jenner. The group is hiding from the herd on the highway when Jacqui has to escape a walker by running into the woods. Dale runs after her with his rifle and hides her under an overhang. 15 minutes later, Jacqui returns to the group but Dale can't be found.

While searching for him, Daryl spots a deer but is shot by Carl (possibly accidently, possibly not) and Carol runs to the nearest house with Daryl in her arms.The group moves in to the Greene farm, where Hershel needs medical equipment and Maggie goes with Merle to the high school where they each have only one bullet left, so she shoots Merle in the leg and returns alone to the farm with the supplies. She tells everyone she is alone because she shot Merle for walker bait and everyone is fine about it.

Rick gets over Lori rather quickly, falls in love with Jacqui, and Daryl recovers and beats Carl's ass. Amy goes out to the barn to wait for Glenn, and spots the walkers. Herschel tells Rick they are just people who are not in their right mind, and when they see Zombie Dale they agree and leave them locked in the barn. Beth is mad that Glenn dumped her for Amy, and she stalks off into a cow pasture where she is mortally attacked by a fat slimy walker that Carl teased out of a well with a live chicken on a stick. They realize there is nothing they can do to save Beth, and Daryl shoots her in the head with his crossbow, saying "Sorry, whatever-your-name-is."

While all this has been going on, Shane has been sneaking off to meet Amy. When Amy discovers she has gonorrhea and after Glenn finds her medicine and asks what penicillin is, he confronts Shane furiously in a cornfield. Shane tries to stab Glenn and Rick tries to save Glenn and Shane shoots Rick in the head, killing him and drawing a herd of walkers that over-run the farm. Everyone escapes but Carol who is left behind and rescued by Michonne, Orange Backpack Guy, and Eyeglasses Guy. The rest of the group reunites and Shane declares he is Head Mo-Fo In Charge. As the camera draws away, the final shot is our group, with the woods behind them, and beyond that the dark silhouette of a Big Stop.

If someone would like to continue, and save Herschel,T-Dawg, Axel, and Milton...be my guest. Don't save Lizzie.

[HighMaintenance]

LOL at Carol carrying Daryl to the Greene farm.

[kikismom]

I can see it clearly in my mind!  :-D

[mandolin]

I also laughed at Daryl being carried!

I'm rewatching old eps (pretty much what I do when I want something on the tv while doing something else!), and Vatos is on. Remember the grandma that leads Rick back to Glenn when they go to exchange the guns for him? She is the sweetest. I wonder what happened to them. It'd would've been neat if she was the same old lady in Woodbury that couldn't fight due to arthritis.

[HighMaintenance]

There was an unaired scene of TWD that's on the DVD.  After Camp Dinner Bell leaves the exploding CDC, they decide they might go back and hang out with the Vatos.  They get there and the place is overrun with walkers, but it is also discovered that pretty much everyone in Camp ShadyPines was killed execution style. While they didn't show Abuela Loca's body, but no further explanation or resolution to that story line.  Rick & Company then hit the road.

[mandolin]

Oh yeah! It's been a long time since I watched the DVD. Those scenes were kind of boring, I remember.

[RedheadZombie]

I marathoned season one and the first half of season two over a weekend.  I think it left me with a very different impression than many.  I was never tired of the farm, and I never hated Andrea, Lori, or Dale.  I was very sad when each of them died.

 

Dale - I actually cried the hardest at his death.  He was just suffering so much, and no one would take charge to put him out of his misery - which he was just begging them to do with his eyes.  At that last moment when Daryl steps up, says "sorry brother", and Dale lifts his head - almost as if to make the decision easier on Daryl.  I bawled like a baby. I know he was a busy body, I know he was overly invested in Andrea, I know he was always moralizing.  The group has gone through many transitions.  They've done many ambiguous actions, and people will argue the right and wrong of it.  I think it's significant that Hershel continued on in Dale's place.  And it seems that Glenn will continue on in Hershel's.

 

T-Dog - I wonder if the character's popularity surprised the writers, and they didn't know how to write for him.  I thought he was a bit of an idiot initially.  He dressed like he was going to a Run DMC concert, and couldn't reliably hold a key without losing it, as clumsy as Tara.  I think part of his writing was to simply show Daryl becoming a better person.  Daryl went from nasty racist to aiding T-Dog when he cut his arm.  At some point, T-Dog became a badass and I loved his part in the five person fighting team that cleared the prison.  Then he faded away again, only to show up long enough to save Carol.  I miss him.

 

Hershel - Of course I miss him the most.  It took me a while to warm up to him.  For some reason, I interpreted a lot of the mystery leading up to the barn walkers, as Hershel being sinister.  The scene in which Rick is in the dining room while Hershel eats a sandwich, and Rick begs him to let them stay.  Hershel just creeped me out, eating his sandwich, reading his bible, calmly contemplating sending this group out, injured and children, to fend for themselves.....  Even the fact that most of them slept outside in tents, instead of allowed in the house.  I know that many believe Rick's gang caused the fall of the farm, but their bizarre little land where time forgot and where we pretend the world isn't falling apart, was doomed.

 

I do think his best moments were when he was treating the flu patients.  When he gave that speech to Maggie and Rick that they were all going to die, and it was about what was worth dying for.  Then he wrestled that walker over the balcony and saved Glenn.  And when it was over and he tried to read his bible .....  I'm sure interpretation is open, but in that moment, I thought that Hershel could not find comfort in his bible - maybe for the first time.  And he sobbed.  He should have won an Emmy.

Edited October 25, 2014 by RedheadZombie

[ghoulina]

RIP, Bob. What did he say? "The nightmare has to end; it doesn't have to end who you are". Loved that.

[RedheadZombie]

I was reading through some recaps, and discovered some things I had forgotten about Lori.  I never hated Lori, and she was an easy character to make fun of, but I occasionally point out her good points.  I had forgotten that she's the one who figured out Beth was attempting suicide, and got to her before she could do too much damage.  I don't particularly appreciate that, but I'm sure Hershel and Maggie did.  What I didn't remember (and still don't) was Lori performing CPR on Hershel after the amputation.  For some reason, I remember Carol doing this.  Lori also made the ultimately self-less decision to die to save Judith.  Lori would have lived through the labor long enough to get help, but that would mean Judith have would died.  The fact that she died in such a horribly painful way, makes me sympathize with her.  It seems like the Greene family owed her for sure.

[kikismom]

  she's the one who figured out Beth was attempting suicide, and got to her before she could do too much damage.  I don't particularly appreciate that,

And now I have to get dressed for work again because I have coffee splattered all over.

[nodorothyparker]

I wished they had kept Milton.  He was like a much more adorkable version of Eugene.

 

I inexplicably loved Milton too.  The way they were setting him up, I was convinced all of season three that he would the sole person to survive the Woodbury mess and end up with our prison gang.  I loved the notion of him and Herschel trading notes on the science they had of the zombies.  Instead, they killed him I guess to drag out Andrea's death and made every single scene of him trying to study the walkers and keeping notes utterly pointless.

[Pete Martell]

I inexplicably loved Milton too.  The way they were setting him up, I was convinced all of season three that he would the sole person to survive the Woodbury mess and end up with our prison gang.  I loved the notion of him and Herschel trading notes on the science they had of the zombies.  Instead, they killed him I guess to drag out Andrea's death and made every single scene of him trying to study the walkers and keeping notes utterly pointless.

 

I tend to think that they were trying to say everyone with the Governor paid a price (although they weren't sure about Andrea's death until near the end, so I don't know). I do wonder if Dr. Caleb (whom I loved) took a role that may have been planned for Milton.

 It seems like the Greene family owed her for sure.

 

There was a great deal of fan criticism of Lori (and Rick) for lording over or being patronizing toward the Greenes, but I do think Lori cared a great deal about them. I think this was cemented in the months between seasons 2 and 3, as Hershel was a rock for her when Rick froze her out.

 

When I occasionally rewatch, I do remember positive moments for characters I disliked. For instance, I had many problems with Dale, which there's no point in going over again, but he did have some strong monologues, like the one where he talked to Glenn or Lori about his wife's miscarriage.

[Trek]

Seeing her cast recently as the young Snow Queen to be in Once Upon A Time reminds me that …I miss Lizzie.

 

I appreciate that many people hate her but to dismiss her as creepy Lizzie or a simple psycho is to do her an injustice. IMHO, hers was one of the most interesting character studies on TWD, main cast included. What would it really be like for a young child growing up in the ZA?

 

Even in the comfort of warm beds, a safe society and parents/ratings system that don’t even let them watch scary movies, many kids still have nightmares all the time and concoct imaginary monsters lurking under the bed or in the back of the closet and the like. The majority are afraid of the dark even when the dark has nothing in it.

 

What then, when the monsters are very real and all around? Where the normal protecting arms of parents/adults aren’t a comfort at all? How can they be when you’ve seen adults dying gruesome deaths in front of your eyes and know they can’t even protect themselves?  What’s it like when in your young world the sight of rotting shambling corpses are as common a sight as, say, trees while in reverse  things like puppies or chocolate cupcakes are just imaginary.

 

If Mika and friends are not affected by this, I submit that they are the weird ones not Lizzie. If the kids were all “normal” there would be no sleep to be had in the prison at all with children waking up screaming all through the night.  Lizzie, OTOH has a reason for not waking up screaming at night, she’s learnt a coping mechanism.

 

One way a young mind could try to prevent itself from going insane (ironic tragedy in this case), is to convince itself that these monsters that were everywhere were not monsters at all and maybe even friends.  Friends need names and friends need to eat too.  This is highly plausible and not dissimilar to the way Herchel and Beth coped by convincing themselves that walkers were not monsters but just sick people. The walkers in the barn had names and were fed too. (And it can be very powerful.  Beth tried to commit suicide when that illusion was broken.)

 

Once that step is taken then the rest naturally follows.  If they were not monsters, then the things they do cannot be monstrous either.  If killing is not evil what is death, what is killing? (Fakes her way into sick ward to see death, experiments on small animals etc.).  Why, death isn’t that frightening at all and killing is kind of easy. They must really be friends, I was right.  All they want is for us to be one of them and once you are one of them everything will be alright.  After that, there was only one more step to take.

 

Her story had run its course when she committed the “final act” - there could only be one outcome after that - so I don’t mind at all that she was killed off.  However, while many may not like it because her transformative journey during the ZA was a very dark one, for me it was far more interesting and believable than many others, ranging from ludicrous (e.g. Lori) to contrived (e.g. Bob) to lame (e.g. Termites - we were attacked by people once, so we became cannibals, Oookay then).

 

I also thought the actress who portrayed this journey did a fine job. We rarely see bad children on screen apart from either your typical bullies or are supernatural in some way – demonic babies/spawns, possessed etc. Doing a lot of screaming and frothing with lots of makeup and sfx help is easy.  Being cool, calm and soft-spoken while exuding an air of disquiet and an undercurrent of menace (a Hopkins light if you will) is a very demanding role for one so young, so I applaud her efforts as well.

[CarpeDiem54]

Great post, Trek.

[nodorothyparker]

That is a really wonderful post, Trek.

 

I still hate that both girls had to die in Lizze's story.  Of course, I realized it was probably coming from the way it was playing out but I'm still disappointed that only the Grimes children are apparently allowed to live in the ZA.  Or maybe I'm just at my limit of the show killing all the little blonde girls.  Good thing Judith has reddish  hair.

Edited November 16, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[JBody]

Nice one Trek. I still get a shudder thinking about when Lizzie said they were talking to her and wanted her to join them, like it was gonna be alright; the real problem being that the living adults were confused and simply didn't understand.

[ladyrott]

I always thought Lizzie was a great character.  While it was obvious she had issues before the ZA came about, she was definitely affected by the changes in the world around her.  I loved little Mika and hate that she had to die, but at least it made sense (the writers didn't just kill her for the shock of killing her....like letting some walker get her when she stumbled upon Lizzie playing with it) story wise.   Lizzie couldn't make the grown ups understand so she tried to prove to them that she was right.  She didn't kill her sister because she was mad at her, she really thought Mika would be ok and then the adults would FINALLY understand.  I find all of the children, including Carl, fascinating because they would be significantly different than the adults because they are still in various developmental phases.  They will certainly grow up to be different people than they would have been otherwise.

[ghoulina]

Yea, I think Lizzie was teetering on the edge pre-ZA. She probably required a lot of work, to keep her stable. After the turn, and losing her mother, that task was probably a lot harder - and she finally went over the edge. I agree with what Carol did, but it was really really sad that it had to come to that. She was a deeply troubled girl, but I don't think she was evil. And Mika. Bless her little heart, I loved that girl. She was such a ray of sunshine, and I appreciated that she refused to compromise who she was. I thought both girls were wonderful actors for their age.

[ghoulina]

RIP Beth Greene. You should have just stayed in your lane like the naughty cop told you to. 

[RedheadZombie]

Sometimes I forget how many we've lost, but watching Honest Trailers, they show death after death.  And I think that was from a few seasons ago.

 

I also enjoy watching Bad Lip Reading, even when it mocks the dearly departed.  Andrea crying about a bleeding kitty as Amy dies always cheers me up.  Also, even though it seems sacrilegious, I enjoy the scene during the flu outbreak where Hershel gives the moving speech about how we're all dying anyway, we just need to decide what's worth dying for.  It ends with Hershel drawing the handkerchief up over his face, and saying, "Time to rob the stage coach".

[Spartan Girl]

Maybe I would have felt sadder about Lori dying if we'd actually seen her actually try to apologize to Rick for her reaction to Shane's death.  Whether or not she was more upset about Carl being the one to put him down, what did she expect, for Carl to just twiddle his thumbs while Walker Shane killed Rick?  The closest thing we saw to an apology was the "I know I'm a shitty wife" spiel.

 

Better yet, if she'd actually held her ground with telling Shane to leave instead of waffling and saying that she needed him around, which inadvertently encouraged his twisted notion that he'd still have a shot with her if Rick wasn't around.  I honestly don't know why she did that.  Shane tried to RAPE her for God's sake!  Drunk or not, that moment should have showed her what kind of person he really was.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Spartan Girl

[CarpeDiem54]

Maybe I would have felt sadder about Lori dying if we'd actually seen her actually try to apologize to Rick for her reaction to Shane's death.  Whether or not she was more upset about Carl being the one to put him down, what did she expect, for Carl to just twiddle his thumbs while Walker Shane killed Rick?  The closest thing we saw to an apology was the "I know I'm a shitty wife" spiel.

 

Better yet, if she'd actually held her ground with telling Shane to leave instead of waffling and saying that she needed him around, which inadvertently encouraged his twisted notion that he'd still have a shot with her if Rick wasn't around.  I honestly don't know why she did that.  Shane tried to RAPE her for God's sake!  Drunk or not, that moment should have showed her what kind of person he really was.

One of the local stations shows TWD on Wednesday nights. Tonight was Beside the Dying Fire. I spent every minute Lori was on screen calling her every filthy name in the book. I've never hated any character more. The only reason I can even stomach looking at her is that I know she meets a terrible end thanks to Li'l Ass Kicker.

[kikismom]

        

[Dobian]

You were Da Man, Hershel.  RIP Merle, you magnificent bastard.  Also another shout-out for Dale.  He had his faults, but his death was probably the most brutal on the show so far the way it dragged out.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Dobian

[Tippi Blevins]

I miss the little green Hyundai. Its cute little hatchback. Its efficient gas mileage. How it toted all those people around without ever complaining. Sniff. 

 

As for the humans: I miss Hershel most, probably. I also miss Axel and Oscar. I think there was a lot of potential for both of them. I, too, wish we could have swapped Andrea for Amy. I miss Jacqui. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Tippi Blevins

[AngelaHunter]

I wish Axel could have stuck around a little longer. He was kind of lovable, in his own way, and he injected some much-needed humour into our grim gang. I loved how not being a lesbian seemed to be his only requirement in a mate.

 

 

[Dobian]

RIP, Bob. What did he say? "The nightmare has to end; it doesn't have to end who you are". Loved that.

Poor Bob, it was bad enough he suffered such a brutal end on The Wire, he fared no better on Walking Dead.

[maplebrew]

I loved how not being a lesbian seemed to be his only requirement in a mate.

 

 

Axel was the most cheerful realist on the show. He was a newly liberated prisoner in the middle of the ZA. Beth, the local cutie, was heavily protected (re: Carol's touch her or else speech). He knew his dating opportunities were slight so he whittled his standards down to a female who is "not lesbian." Quite practical. If Axel had lived long enough he may well have had a shot with Carol. 

 

I agree that Bob had an especially rough end, although he was kind of pollyanna about it with his talk of having loved ones around him. 

[AngelaHunter]

If Axel had lived long enough he may well have had a shot with Carol.

 

I agree, because he made her laugh, not something to be taken lightly in a ZA.

[kikismom]

[Tippi Blevins]

Yeah, good ol' Axel. Trapped for nearly a year next to violent criminals and a dung heap, but he kept that mustache groomed.

[Nashville]

Yeah, good ol' Axel. Trapped for nearly a year next to violent criminals and a dung heap, but he kept that mustache groomed.

Don't want to know what Axel used for mustache wax, tho....

[BrokenRemote]

I think Herschel and T-Dog are the only characters I miss.  Herschel--the apocalypse is 1000 times less awesome with you in it. 

[ghoulina]

Herschel--the apocalypse is 1000 times less awesome with you in it.

 

 

So, so true. Other deaths have made me sad, but Herschel's was the one that I felt really and truly changed everything. I was almost depressed to watch the group without him.