HalcyonDays July 11, 2015 Share July 11, 2015 Episode synopsis: With a small group of survivors from Solace in tow, Chandler and his crew square off against an enemy of the most dangerous kind - a nuclear-powered submarine led by rogue British naval officers, Sean and Ned Ramsey. XO Slattery interrogates a captured mercenary from the hospital ship in an effort to extract information on the sub and its mission. As Nathan James engages in a perilous game of cat-and- mouse, the truth about the mercenary sub unfolds. Link to comment
bmoore4026 July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 Well, this was a tense episode! Goddamn! So, what, the crew of the nuclear sub is going to kill anyone without a natural immunity? Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 (edited) That was a bad version of 'Run Silent Run Deep'. Did the British only have dumb torpedoes with no hunting capability and only ran in straight lines -- and no magnetic or proximity warheads ? On a modern submarine. I can't get past the fact that in 5 months, these two Ramsey guys managed to: A) turn evil, B) crew the sub by themselves to a port somewhere in Europe, C) find a sufficient amount of immune people who wanted to join the team, D) train them so they are a kickass crew, E) takeover Europe (really ?), F) establish communications with these Chosen idiots down in Florida, and G) cross the Atlantic to start running ops. All in 5 months. In a world gone to shit. Did the British sub launch ballistic and cruise missiles ? And were they nuclear-tipped missiles or conventional ? Why didn't the Nathan James head straight for the source of the launches to finish them off ? They had the helo in the air armed with torpedoes -- and the sub had to surface to launch tomahawks (while they would be submerged to launch ballistic missiles) -- so what was the pilot waiting for ? Edited July 13, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver 2 Link to comment
TV Anonymous July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 While it is an exciting surface-on-submarine battle, there are some questions that leave me wonder, on top of the ones ottoDbusdriver points out above. 1. The show gets dangerously close to Last Resort territory with Ned is capable of turning from a submariner to an infanteer / spec-op operator. All in five months without going to a specialized school. 2. It is strange that the destroyer maintains noise discipline while the submarine does not. I thought that a submarine was more susceptible to noise to keep its stealthiness? And why the dropping knife? Should they be stowed away already? 3. I still do not get how the Achilles gets the coordinates of the labs. What does Niels find in the heap of paper? Speaking of which, what is the range of a Tomahawk? Can it hit targets on the other side of the continent? 4. And yeah, Tomahawk launch means automatic location reveal. The Nathan James and its helo should zero in to that. She certainly has ASROC and the helo, well, there is not yet submarine-to-air weapon system. Not today, anyway. 5. Now if the distance of the Achilles and the Nathan James is about 30 miles, how did Ned get back to the Achilles completely undetected and in considerably short time? They had the helo, for crying out loud. And is 30 nautical miles a distance one can just swim, even with SDV? 1 Link to comment
thuganomics85 July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 I did like seeing the naval warfare, which is something this show really has done lately. All the missile launch, counter-missiles, and maneuvering was fun to see, even if I didn't understand half of the naval terms. Of course, it ends up not mattering much since it sounds like the baddies did destroy all the labs. D'oh! So, basically the baddies seemed to be mainly from Europe and they just want to wipe out everyone who isn't naturally immune because, I don't know, they are worthy or something. Wish I could are more, but I'm not feeling it. It certainly isn't helping that I find almost all the characters' accents to be hilariously over-the-top. But I guess I couldn't really expect too much from this show, after how over-the-top the Russians were last season. Did enjoy Slattery and Dr. Scott working together to try and get that "beacon" out, which ended up being a flashdrive instead. No sight of either Wolf, the Badass Australian or Hot Israeli Solider Woman. Boo! 1 Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 (edited) I still do not get how the Achilles gets the coordinates of the labs. What does Niels find in the heap of paper? Speaking of which, what is the range of a Tomahawk? Can it hit targets on the other side of the continent? They identified the British sub as an Astute-class which is a hunter-killer. It doesn't have ballistic missiles, so how was a ballistic missile launch detected ? No sight of either Wolf, the Badass Australian or Hot Israeli Solider Woman. Boo! Boo indeed -- they even showed Burke, but neither of the new team members were even in the background. I still do not get how the Achilles gets the coordinates of the labs. What does Niels find in the heap of paper? Speaking of which, what is the range of a Tomahawk? Can it hit targets on the other side of the continent? Just because Niels knew of the labs approximate location (eg. the city) doesn't mean he knew all the street addresses. And if the missiles were not nuclear-tipped, they would have to be much, much more precise on the coordinates to do any damage. And weren't some of them supposed to be secret labs setup only for the red flu epidemic ? How would Niels know about those ? ETA: to change Nils to Niels. Edited July 13, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver 1 Link to comment
Artsda July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 (edited) That was great, dramatic. Although I knew the sub wouldn't sink because it's too early in the season. I missed the 2 new people (love them), but really liked the whole subs/torpedoes/go to silent plot. Edited July 13, 2015 by Artsda 2 Link to comment
bluebonnet July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 AS ridiculous as some of the plots are and as much as I have to suspend disbelief, this show is just so much fun. I really like this pseudo religious immunity cult angle. Despite some of the issues, especially with timeline and alleged submarine expertise, I find this antagonist a lot more believable than the Russians and the Baltimore human incinerator plots. The crazy insane navy porn continues to be top notch. 5 Link to comment
Dowel Jones July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 No sight of either Wolf, the Badass Australian or Hot Israeli Solider Woman. Boo! Maybe they were in one of the wardrooms, being, um, quiet. Well, guys, now that you've really, REALLY pissed of Captain Chandler, you should probably prepare to be "Living the Rest of Your Short Ass Life In Agonizing Pain", to borrow a quote. And he won't be going medieval, either. I can't get past the fact that in 5 months... Plus, manage to convince highly trained sailors of a megalomaniac plot to rule the world because they are the invincible ones. Ruling the world is highly overrated, anyway. What's the return on the investment if there's nothing left? 3 Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 AS ridiculous as some of the plots are and as much as I have to suspend disbelief, this show is just so much fun. That much is true. Complaints/nitpicks aside, it is fun. 4 Link to comment
StatMom July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 Plus, manage to convince highly trained sailors of a megalomaniac plot to rule the world because they are the invincible ones. Ruling the world is highly overrated, anyway. What's the return on the investment if there's nothing left? This is what I was thinking! If the only people left are the invincibles, then who will they feel superior to and rule over? Ah well, I'm sure they'll find something. Link to comment
Lonesome Rhodes July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 (edited) 1-5% survival rate? Organized runt military organization, as with Baltimore? Radio/communication waves would have been rampant and easy for the NJ and/or USNS Norfolk to pick up. It would not be as we have seen with the NJ completely oblivious to any life on any other continents, save SA. The degree of good fortune for that sub to have made the emergency roll dive into that canyon without smacking into something was nothing short of ridiculous. Ugh. I was vibing on The Bedford Incident with the cat and mouse between the NJ and the sub. If only Wally Cox were still around... The whole argument over the life of the spy was absurd and, to me, obscene. All international law declares a discovered spy is subject to instant execution. No questions. Morally? He had just went beyond overboard protesting his good intention and he had begged asylum. Just what, exactly, was the problem with killing him? Hawkeye Pierce at least had the Geneva Conventions behind him when he famously insisted on treating the North Korean as a priority. The patient was properly uniformed under a recognized flag. Then again, the NorKos weren't a signatory to the GC. :) The vibrations of a helo on the deck would not have created any sonar blips, but a walking dog would? OK. Good to know. I promise to try, but I can not in good faith, guarantee I will not flashback to the Eat Me mobile at the end of Animal House when we get the showdown with the sub and Kirk orders, "Ramming speeeeeed!" Edited July 13, 2015 by Lonesome Rhodes Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 The vibrations of a helo on the deck would not have created any sonar blips, but a walking dog would? OK. Good to know. Or the fact that they showed everyone below decks in socks to keep the noise down, but then Slattery is up on the deck stomping around in boots. 1 Link to comment
Mars477 July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 (edited) Maybe the takeaway is that when your dastardly sub crew has only two real submariners, you can't fight it for shit. A lone destroyer is what submariners normally call "lunch". While destroyers are used in an ASW role, this is normally as part of a CBG screening dozens of other ships, with ASW helicopters flying all over the place deploying dipping sonar and ASROCs, and also a few hunter killer subs riding in support. This is a lot like Last Resort, where we saw a nuclear missile sub outfight an attack sub like it was nobody's business. Doesn't work that way. And yeah, count me as one of those disappointed that rugged Aussie soldier guy and hot Israeli soldier girl were nowhere to be seen. Edited July 13, 2015 by Mars477 Link to comment
MissLucas July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 The crazy insane navy porn continues to be top notch. Yes, I guess that's what keeps people entertained despite all the flaws. Also: subs always make everything better - no matter how crazy the underlying plot is and how little logic is behind things. The logistics behind immune cult's take-over of Europe are something you better not start thinking about. 3 Link to comment
Agent Dark July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 Well that was entertaining, if not entirely 'accurate to real life'. They managed to get some of the painstaking, methodical processes involved in anti-submarine warfare across, at least as well as they could whilst still delivering an action episode of TV. Though I'm not sure why the Seahawk wasn't launched immediately to hunt down the sub - Anti-Submarine Warfare Helicopters are the bane of submarines. It would have been able to drop sonobouys and/or its dipping sonar with impunity to try and find the sub. Triangulate with the sonar from the Nathan James and they can pretty much drop a torpedo from the Helo right in the sub's face. Especially if you already have a rough of idea of where the Sub is. Doubly especially so if the sub is pinging away with Active Sonar. But then I guess we wouldn't have had much of an episode lol. 1 Link to comment
MissLucas July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 This snippet from the Comic-Con panel seems to touch briefly on the helicopter issue: Subs, not choppers: A submarine is apparently the biggest request the show gets from real Navy officers—ask, and ye shall receive—but there was an audience question that wondered why pilots don’t get any love on The Last Ship. Steinberg revealed that there once was a pilot character, but “we just knew, week to week, we would not have access to a helicopter to be able to do that…It’s something we are contemplating for the future…But we never felt that we could pull that off consistently, and so that’s the reason that didn’t happen.” Link to comment
MDL July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 So, what, the crew of the nuclear sub is going to kill anyone without a natural immunity? Wouldn't the disease take care of that chore? 1 Link to comment
GoMocs July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 yes, many inaccuracies...the Seahawk helo taking off would have shaken the Nathan James to where it would have been lit like a Christmas tree on the sub's listening equipment. Also, didn't we see last week that the "cure" was also delievered to Spain and elsewhere in Europe, but wasn't Europe already "conquered"???? Do yall, the viewers see this show ending this summer or we will have weekly drame for seasons to come if the ratings are acceptable? Shouldn't this story have an ending in a half dozen or so episodes or will more bad guys keep cropping up. The wife and I are enjoying this, but at some point they need to come to the ending of the story...tell a good story and end it, don't drag it out until nobody cares anymore. 1 Link to comment
Artsda July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 Wouldn't the disease take care of that chore? That's why they're trying to bomb the labs and get rid of the cure. Link to comment
Raja July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 Of the surviving population some would be cult members if they knew they where chosen one's and not just lucky before the innoculations started. It is playing like the cannibal cult in the novel Lucifer's Hammer 1 Link to comment
iMonrey July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 (edited) I can't get past the fact that in 5 months, these two Ramsey guys managed to: A) turn evil, B) crew the sub by themselves to a port somewhere in Europe, C) find a sufficient amount of immune people who wanted to join the team, D) train them so they are a kickass crew, E) takeover Europe (really ?), F) establish communications with these Chosen idiots down in Florida, and G) cross the Atlantic to start running ops. All in 5 months. In a world gone to shit. Yeah, this. I mean - I do enjoy the show. The episodes are suspenseful and it's a fast way to spend an hour. It's a fun show. But . . . when you start to pick at it, the whole thing unravels. These two brothers were the only people on the entire submarine crew who survived the pandemic; what are the odds that together, just the two of them, they could commandeer a nuclear sub and find an entire, fully skilled crew to run the thing? Just, randomly? Do yall, the viewers see this show ending this summer or we will have weekly drame for seasons to come if the ratings are acceptable? Shouldn't this story have an ending in a half dozen or so episodes or will more bad guys keep cropping up. Well, this season itself demonstrates they can probably keep this story going as long as they want to because, realistically the show should have ended last year, or at least at the beginning of this season once they distributed the cure to all the labs. Now they're just stretching it and, as noted above, not very credibly. Edited July 13, 2015 by iMonrey Link to comment
HalcyonDays July 13, 2015 Author Share July 13, 2015 As everyone said, logic aside, it's a really fun and entertainining show to watch. The hour flew by. Why the British brothers are trying ti kill everyone, who knows. Maybe the less people in the world, the more they can dominate it, I guess? If too many people survive via the vaccine, then they go back to being nobodies, I guess. I'm impressed some lowly sub operator now knows exactly how the command the sub. Quick learner, that one. What I didn't get was why the guy with the flash drive inside him was bleeding out so badly. I would figure the body would react by considering it an infection and attach it, but the massive bleeding didn't make an sense, unless they did such a sloppy job that they cut through some arteries or something, tried to stitch is back up and screwed up. Or the flashdrive cut something inside him. Maybe that was it. Otherwise, it didn't make sense. I tell you - the Russian Patient 0 (forget his name) is going to be taking out the British Brothers very soon. The Brits seem too hotheaded. Overall, a lot of fun! 1 Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 I'm impressed some lowly sub operator now knows exactly how the command the sub. Quick learner, that one. Or how he got the launch codes for the missiles. Wouldn't they have been locked away and only the Captain and the XO would have had access ? Link to comment
TimWil July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 Brian F. O'Byrne is a good actor but his East End accent really is crap. 1 Link to comment
bluebonnet July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 What I didn't get was why the guy with the flash drive inside him was bleeding out so badly. I would figure the body would react by considering it an infection and attach it, but the massive bleeding didn't make an sense, unless they did such a sloppy job that they cut through some arteries or something, tried to stitch is back up and screwed up. Or the flashdrive cut something inside him. Maybe that was it. Otherwise, it didn't make sense. He was hit in the upper chest, presumably very soon after he swallowed the flash drive. The hit is what caused the damage. Link to comment
Machiabelly July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 I figured it was because he had swallowed it. That was why he wanted the water, it was tearing him going down Link to comment
bluebonnet July 13, 2015 Share July 13, 2015 It probably wouldn't have done any damage if he hadn't been hit, though. Link to comment
TV Anonymous July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 Do yall, the viewers see this show ending this summer or we will have weekly drame for seasons to come if the ratings are acceptable? Shouldn't this story have an ending in a half dozen or so episodes or will more bad guys keep cropping up. The wife and I are enjoying this, but at some point they need to come to the ending of the story...tell a good story and end it, don't drag it out until nobody cares anymore. Case study: See CBS, Thursday, 10.00 pm EDT. Ref.: Under the Dome. 1 Link to comment
bluebonnet July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 Do yall, the viewers see this show ending this summer or we will have weekly drame for seasons to come if the ratings are acceptable? Shouldn't this story have an ending in a half dozen or so episodes or will more bad guys keep cropping up. The wife and I are enjoying this, but at some point they need to come to the ending of the story...tell a good story and end it, don't drag it out until nobody cares anymore. I see the show easily going on for at least another season, if not more, assuming the ratings are acceptable. Post-apocalyptic fiction is really popular right now and there are always endless storylines in post-ap world. Bad guys galore, and even if there isn't a bad guy, there is still the drama of surviving. I think the one place where the show will struggle is making sure that the characters have a reason to stay on the Nathan James. The show works so well because it's outrageous yet fun navy porn. They really need that ship, or at least some ship, to keep up the pretense of the show. I think there are a lot of storylines that would keep a military ship relevant. This submarine cult plot has opened up a whole new world as the good ole American boys might need to save the poor conquered people of Europe (lol, that ought to be a juicy storyline). Then there is needing to deliver supplies to coastal communities or fighting pirates. Of course, we'll need a season of the Nathan James becoming the big bad, power tripping or maybe just wanting something different than the will of the people. Then we can get a final season with a redemption story. Anyway, a rather long-winded way to say that yes, I think this show has longevity, and I also think it could drag on until no one cares anymore. Perfect example would be Falling Skies. Link to comment
Lonesome Rhodes July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 One direction they could go, which would be well within bounds, is the discovery of a surviving USN flag officer who would have very different ideas as to how to go about business. Boom. What would/should Kirk do? He couldn't very well retain his commission, eh? Well, my friends, guess which ship would then, by definition, be the rogue? :) At what point does the USA cease to be the sovereign entity anyway? This would make for great theater and never-ending storylines of right and wrong and basic morality. No need for cartoonish bad guys like those to which we have been subjected thus far. 2 Link to comment
Agent Dark July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 One direction they could go, which would be well within bounds, is the discovery of a surviving USN flag officer who would have very different ideas as to how to go about business. Boom. What would/should Kirk do? He couldn't very well retain his commission, eh? Well, my friends, guess which ship would then, by definition, be the rogue? :) *cough* Battlestar Galactica *cough* ;) Though I suppose being compared to BSG should only be a good thing. That 'Pegasus' arc was awesome. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays July 14, 2015 Author Share July 14, 2015 One direction they could go, which would be well within bounds, is the discovery of a surviving USN flag officer who would have very different ideas as to how to go about business. Boom. What would/should Kirk do? He couldn't very well retain his commission, eh? Well, my friends, guess which ship would then, by definition, be the rogue? :) At what point does the USA cease to be the sovereign entity anyway? This would make for great theater and never-ending storylines of right and wrong and basic morality. No need for cartoonish bad guys like those to which we have been subjected thus far. Oooohhh....I like it. I like this idea a lot. If they get a third season, I can totally see this happening. Nice one, Lonesome Rhodes. Link to comment
Hanahope July 15, 2015 Share July 15, 2015 I can't get past the fact that in 5 months, these two Ramsey guys managed to: A) turn evil, B) crew the sub by themselves to a port somewhere in Europe, C) find a sufficient amount of immune people who wanted to join the team, D) train them so they are a kickass crew, E) takeover Europe (really ?), F) establish communications with these Chosen idiots down in Florida, and G) cross the Atlantic to start running ops. All in 5 months. In a world gone to shit. Yeah, exactly. When Baltimore was still having new people get infected and a lot that hadn't been exposed at all. And there were still some roving bands of bandits running around scrounging whatever food they could find? All of Europe already got their shit together under the control of enough naturally immune people? I mean, even travel has to be a significant burden when only 1-5% of your population survives. Not like there's airplanes or trains running. I have to guess that whatever paper Niels looked at had the exact addresses that could be programed into the sub to launch the missiles. Somehow I doubt a type-up list of labs would have longitude and latitude coordinates. And he's going on about how the sub crew needed him? Really, no one else could read a list of lab addresses? I'm not understanding why the sub guy captured by NJ had to be outside if all he had inside him was a computer chip? Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver July 15, 2015 Share July 15, 2015 I'm not understanding why the sub guy captured by NJ had to be outside if all he had inside him was a computer chip? It was so that if the Achilles sank the NJ, he could easily swim away and get picked up by the sub instead of being trapped inside the bowels of the ship. Link to comment
Hanahope July 15, 2015 Share July 15, 2015 It was so that if the Achilles sank the NJ, he could easily swim away and get picked up by the sub instead of being trapped inside the bowels of the ship. He expected to get blown clear far enough away and in one piece that the sub would find his body amongst the wreckage? Did he plan to die or was that just a bad side-effect of his swallowing the chip? Link to comment
Lonesome Rhodes July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 His plan was to somehow gain the freedom to jump overboard and signal a small sub for a rendezvous. What I don't get. At all. Is the expectation that he would have been a survivor. None of his compatriots who made it off the Solace would have seen him in any condition to make it. No way would the leaders on the main sub be thinking in terms of any remaining survivors nor have an expectation of being hailed by an escaping prisoner from the NJ. Link to comment
Haleth July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Just how tall is Adam Baldwin? I always thought Eric Dane was 6'-ish but Adam was towering over him by a good 4". Link to comment
RustbeltWriter July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Out of all the ways I was thinking of that the Nathan James could survive a torpedo attack from the submarine I didn't consider that the torpedoes would just float on past and miss. I expected some Hunt for Red October arming/timing tomfoolery but the writers didn't even bother with that. Link to comment
Raja July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Presumably the evasive action and decoys fooled the torpedoes software and without the submarine providing updates because she was avoiding Nathan James' torpedoes they went ballistic like a WWII era torpedo. Link to comment
tomorrowgirl July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Or the fact that they showed everyone below decks in socks to keep the noise down, but then Slattery is up on the deck stomping around in boots. They said that sound disperses out in the open air of the deck and wouldn't be detectible, so they didn't have to be quiet there. Link to comment
tomorrowgirl July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Just how tall is Adam Baldwin? I always thought Eric Dane was 6'-ish but Adam was towering over him by a good 4". I thought that Eric Dane looked short in comparison to Adam Baldwin, especially in one scene. On imdb.com, Adam Baldwin is listed as being 6'4", and Eric Dane is listed at 6'1". It seemed like the difference was more than that, but maybe the angle that scene was shot at made the height differences seem more pronounced. Link to comment
xaxat July 18, 2015 Share July 18, 2015 (edited) One direction they could go, which would be well within bounds, is the discovery of a surviving USN flag officer who would have very different ideas as to how to go about business. Boom. What would/should Kirk do? He couldn't very well retain his commission, eh? Well, my friends, guess which ship would then, by definition, be the rogue? :) At what point does the USA cease to be the sovereign entity anyway? This would make for great theater and never-ending storylines of right and wrong and basic morality. No need for cartoonish bad guys like those to which we have been subjected thus far. I think that's a good premise, but doubt it will ever happen. Michael Bay has a close relationship with the US military and they provide him with access to the technical expertise and hardware that makes for that great military porn. Doing anything that would portray them in a less than flattering light might jeopardize that. Tony Scott thought he had a deal with the Navy for his movie Crimson Tide, but when they found out it was about a mutiny, they pulled the plug. Edited July 18, 2015 by xaxat Link to comment
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