Figure Skating

[Brattinella]

So, it is 10 minutes in to the ISU and there has been NO skating.  Only short glimpses of skaters, a little commentary and LOTS of commercials.  Do we get to see skating??

[redpencil]

29 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

So, it is 10 minutes in to the ISU and there has been NO skating.  Only short glimpses of skaters, a little commentary and LOTS of commercials.  Do we get to see skating??

Four Continents? I've been watching NBCSN and they've showed every skater since they came on the air (only missed the first group). Maybe you tuned in in between groups during ice resurfacing?

[Brattinella]

37 minutes ago, redpencil said:

Four Continents? I've been watching NBCSN and they've showed every skater since they came on the air (only missed the first group). Maybe you tuned in in between groups during ice resurfacing?

Yes, Four Continents on NBCSN.   They resurfaced right before the start.  They have shown all the skaters, it is true, but they didn't show anyone actually skate for 12 minutes.  That is a lot of commercials.

[Brattinella]

I just checked YT to see the Shoma Uno skate, and it has been deleted already.  Also, when I rewind the DVR, it skips and stutters, both forwards and backwards.  Is this a subtle dig by NBC that they don't want skating recorded?

[displayname]

I'm glad for the top 2 men, the two best skaters of the event were the top 2.

Zhou didn't deserve the bronze. Should have been Messing.

[Mellowyellow]

Can someone give me a painless description of what happened to my beloved Junliet? I don't think I can bear to watch!

Edited February 10, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[Jaded]

I had help from a little friend that made the ISU site think I was in Canada so I was able to watch the 4C stream from there. It was so nice not to have to hear Tara and Johnny yapping away. I used to like them when they first started but their egos got in the way pretty quickly. It was kind of weird to watch the entire men's FS without any type of commentary whatsoever. 

I agree about Vincent not really deserving third place and was surprised he retained that position at the end. 

[specialj67]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

I'm glad for the top 2 men, the two best skaters of the event were the top 2.

Zhou didn't deserve the bronze. Should have been Messing.

It seems the 12 point lead he had over Messing after the short is what kept him on the podium.d

I really hope Vincent works on improving his skating skills and general performance quality in the off season this spring/summer. Watching his free skates this year...they feel interminable.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, specialj67 said:

It seems the 12 point lead he had over Messing after the short is what kept him on the podium.d

Yes, it was the uncalled URs in the short program that saved him.

The same technical panel called both programs, but after being extremely lenient in the short they started actually calling things in the long.  It's especially strange because the Assistant Technical Specialist was Shin Amano.  I don't know if it took him some time to assert control of the proceedings, but he's normally a stickler for these things, so I don't know what was going on the first day.

Keegan got a small bronze medal for the free skate, at least.

[displayname]

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Can someone give me a painless description of what happened to my beloved Junliet?

He got nailed by the TP.

[Darknight]

21 hours ago, specialj67 said:

Does some of the inconsistency in calling jumps UR and whatnot have to do with the fact that there aren’t multiple camera angles for the technical caller/specialist to review jumps? I seem to recall that being discussed on The Skating Lesson at one point—that there is only one camera angle used for reviewing jumps.

I’m all for UR and edge calls, but what’s the point of they’re not using multiple camera angles to ensure greater accuracy in their calls.

I said the same thing. Sometimes you can't even see tech issues. In my view, I think sometimes coaches, choreographers, and skaters use this as an advantage to get away with tech issues. I mean if tech panel can't see it how can they call it? I don't understand why there aren't multiple cameras 

It sucks I have to depend on YouTube to see programs but then they're deleted or block. Thanks ISU. 

[Darknight]

19 hours ago, SeanC said:

Eun-soo and Marin only started with Raf this season.  Coaching changes generally take longer than that to have a big impact (Raf himself has said he wants skaters to commit to two years to judge the results).  Raf has Nathan, obviously, but he also got Michal Brezina to a place where he's gotten his best results in several years (though he didn't have a good Europeans, sadly), got Adam Rippon to thrive, and so on.

I agree that no coach is perfect, but ultimately, coaches can't skate the programs for their students.  Look at Angela Wang, who's had a succession of strong coaches through the years, but can never put it together.  So suggesting that better coaching would help a skater succeed isn't a guarantee that they will.

Are people suggesting skaters go to Tom Z.?  At least in the skating fandom, Tom Z. and Tammy are rather out of favour, from what I've observed.

I agree. No coach is perfect and a top name coach does not mean success or winning on the skaters part. 

Yes, people suggest Tom Z. Especially for the jumps. It makes me cringe to see Tom Z as the go to coach. 

[healthnut]

Holy Moly. Hubbell & Donahue just got 4th at Four Continents. No fall, but hammered in Technical elements over a downgraded lift and spin, crazy. Chock & Bates win. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by healthnut

[Jillibean]

Just now, healthnut said:

Holy Moly. Hubbell & Donahue just got 4th at Four Continents. No fall, but hammered in Technical elements over an invalid lift? Not sure. Chock & Bates win. 

Don’t mind me: I’m just doing my happy dance up and down the room here. It’s not that I dislike H/D exactly, but C/B are soooo much more likeable and easy to root for, and I truly don’t see the superiority of H/D when both teams are clean aside from the fact that they’ve been anointed by the US fed. 

[specialj67]

The quality of competition in the top 2 groups in the ice dance field at 4CC was so much higher, to me, than Euros this year.

But seriously, what the hell happened to Hubbell and Donohue’s free dance score? I looked at the judges scores and saw their first lift was score way low compared to all of the other top teams. Everyone else was given a level 4 on their stationary lift, but Hubbell and Donohue weren’t even at a level 3. Does someone with some knowledge know what happened there?

As cool as it was to see Chock and Bates win, what a WTF ending to the competition...

Edited February 10, 2019 by specialj67

[healthnut]

Officially, stationary lift was not stationary so it was downgraded from Level 4 to base value, lost 4.3 points 

Their program components were very high, high 9s, beat Chock & Bates by over almost a point there. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by healthnut

[SeanC]

With ice dance the default static rankings mean that any errors generally feel like the rumbles of shifting tectonic plates.

Piper and Paul got a medal, which is all I really wanted from this event, and was resigned to not getting.

[Moxie Cat]

Holy moly! Did not get to see ice dance due to NBC(SN)'s refusal to air it. Soooo happy for Chock/Bates! I was never a super fan of theirs, but have been rooting for them to have a comeback ever since the awfulness in Pyongchang. Plus, I just can't with H/D, due to their so many little moments of bitchiness. Would not want to be around Madison H. tonight!

Loved actually seeing the women's and men's coverage on NBCSN over the past few days. Finally got to know Keegan Messing (love!) and watch Cha - what an up and comer he is. Disappointed in the US ladies' outcomes - but what else is new?

[redpencil]

I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but while I also like Keegan Messing, I feel like I've only ever seen him do the same programs over and over (even the ones that are technically different programs are still very much the same tone/feel and basically feel like I'm watching the same program). Really hope he branches out next season and tries something different.

Edited February 11, 2019 by redpencil

[Moxie Cat]

46 minutes ago, redpencil said:

I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but while I also like Keegan Messing, I feel like I've only ever seen him do the same programs over and over (even the ones that are technically different programs are still very much the same tone/feel and basically feel like I'm watching the same program). Really hope he branches out next season and tries something different.

That was actually Johnny's main criticism of his free skate, although he also said it was the best he's ever seen him perform. I don't think I ever saw his program last year, so it was new to me. I liked watching him because he's clearly an enthusiastic performer who presents an entertaining program. Combine that with a few well-landed jumps and he's far more enjoyable to watch than so many of the routines that have no character. I would add Jin Boyang to that group as well - I loved his Star Wars routine last year.

[annzeepark914]

Wow! C/B beat H/D? I wish I could've seen this. Did H/D let the world know how wrong this was? Hope we see a repeat of this at World's.

[Jeddah]

9 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Wow! C/B beat H/D? I wish I could've seen this. Did H/D let the world know how wrong this was? Hope we see a repeat of this at World's.

I couldn’t find the free dance on YouTube, but the Kiss and Cry reaction is on there. It’s hilarious and awkward. And poor Chock and Bates don’t even know how to react to winning.

I guess NBC Sports is showing pairs and dance tonight at midnight. At least that’s what my DVR thinks.

ETA:

Edited February 11, 2019 by Jeddah

[SeanC]

Obviously a sad moment for them, but I can't helped but be amused by Patrice Lauzon's almost cheerfully puzzled expression at the score.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm watching the Romeo and Juliet ice dance pair at 4CC and after the whole "In fair Verona" intro I fully expected them to break out into disco a la Junliet 😁

I found myself disappointed when they did not!

ETA: The ice dance lady even talked about a Juuuuuliiiiiieeeet sign that was for Jun at her kiss and cry!

***

Is Junliet going to be too tall to jump? He's 175cm and growing last I checked. What if he hits 180cm?  😱

Edited February 11, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[displayname]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Junliet going to be too tall to jump? He's 175cm and growing last I checked. What if he hits 180cm?  😱

He is already 180 cm, IIRC.

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, displayname said:

He is already 180 cm, IIRC.

Omg will he lose his jumps? Has anyone been that tall?

[Jillibean]

Quote

I couldn’t find the free dance on YouTube, but the Kiss and Cry reaction is on there. It’s hilarious and awkward. And poor Chock and Bates don’t even know how to react to winning.

You can actually hear Madison say "stationary lift, base?"realizing where they got docked. I recorded it last night and will be interested to see if it's something Tanith picked up during the performance.And I feel like this video proves my point re: Chock and Bates, because had the situation been reversed, I strongly believe Madison and Zach would have been all enthusiastic smiles and waves. 

I'm not a huge fan of Johnny and Tara, but I will say that Johnny seems to be excellent at noticing when a jump is under-rotated, if not during the original performance than on the replay, and that's something that's become highly relevant in men's skating.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I thought that Johnny was sulking all weekend.  His criticisms were, I thought, over the top in his delivery.  Just my opinion.

I got to see the event live on some link...it was shocking and I was delighted.  C/B had a lovely skate, and the VanGough skate was gorgeous. 

For H/DThey showed the deduction in slow motion, and you could see that the judges were right.  They were traveling on the stationary lift. Until then, I had no idea what that had meant.  I certainly do now.

Happily,my dvr caught the nbcuniversal channel that air at midnight- hour of the free skate, and hour of the free dance.

[Moxie Cat]

26 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Happily,my dvr caught the nbcuniversal channel that air at midnight- hour of the free skate, and hour of the free dance.

Rats! I saw that was on, but the description only mentioned the women's and men's, so I thought it was a re-air of the Friday and Saturday programs.

Yeah, pretty sure that if C/B had been unexpectedly docked, H/D would have been screaming and crying in the waiting area anyway. Clearly C/B didn't know how to react and were themselves horrified for H/D. I'd have liked to hear their "internal monologues" though. Madison Hubbell's face is everything at the start of that video!

[displayname]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Omg will he lose his jumps? Has anyone been that tall? 

Lycasek, but that's not an endorsement for Cha. Cha will need to manage his height with muscle, and it won't be easy. Technical deficiencies will be there. There's also Kvitelashvili currently, and Orzel from juniors.

On a different note, there's so much artistic emotion to Kaori Sakamoto. Wonderful.

Edited February 11, 2019 by displayname

[Moxie Cat]

4 minutes ago, displayname said:

Lycasek

Isn't Jason Brown fairly tall too? He comes off that way on TV. (Also, not another good example.)

[HartofDixie]

11 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Wow! C/B beat H/D? I wish I could've seen this. Did H/D let the world know how wrong this was? Hope we see a repeat of this at World's.

Edited February 11, 2019 by HartofDixie

[ChicksDigScars]

16 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Don’t mind me: I’m just doing my happy dance up and down the room here. It’s not that I dislike H/D exactly, but C/B are soooo much more likeable and easy to root for, and I truly don’t see the superiority of H/D when both teams are clean aside from the fact that they’ve been anointed by the US fed. 

I'll join you in the Happy Dance. And don't mind me, but someone posted still reaction shots on Twitter in the Kiss and Cry of H/D and the facial expressions are just as PRICELESS as video!

Now, if you LIKE H/D, this might jump start their training, and get them out of their entitled complacency. If you don't care for them, you can enjoy this after a year of smug douchtasticness. It's not often that I outwardly root AGAINST skaters from the U.S. In fact, they may be the first ones. I don't like Hubbell's sex sneers masquerading as "smoldering chemistry," I don't like the way that they treated the Shibutani's and snubbed everyone at the Olympic Team event, and I don't like Donahue's "gee, I'm so funny, but I'm actually a giant douche" comments. And I'm sick about them mentioning Montreal every two seconds. 

Congrats to Chock and Bates! They deserve it after what happened at the Olympics last season. I'm only sorry that they couldn't fully enjoy their victory yesterday, since they had to appear shocked over the theater in the Kiss and Cry. Do I dare to hope that they'll be standing on a higher podium step than Hubbell and Donahue at World's, too? (Because, come on, the gold medal has been predetermined, already. It's really just a battle for silver and bronze)

Edited February 11, 2019 by ChicksDigScars

[displayname]

26 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Isn't Jason Brown fairly tall too? He comes off that way on TV. (Also, not another good example.)

I don't think he's as tall. Might need to dig up an IG post, though.

3 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I'll join you in the Happy Dance. And don't mind me, but someone posted reaction shots on Twitter in the Kiss and Cry of H/D and the facial expressions are PRICELESS.

Now, if you LIKE H/D, this might jump start their training, and get them out of their entitled complacency. If you don't care for them, you can enjoy this after a year of smug douchtasticness. It's not often that I outwardly root AGAINST skaters from the U.S. In fact, they may be the first ones. I don't like Hubbell's sex sneers masquerading as "smoldering chemistry," I don't like the way that they treated the Shibutani's and snubbed everyone at the Olympic Team event, and I don't like Donahue's "gee, I'm so funny, but I'm actually a giant douche" comments. And I'm sick about them mentioning Montreal every two seconds. 

Congrats to Chock and Bates! They deserve it after what happened at the Olympics last season. Do I dare to hope that they'll be standing on a higher podium step than Hubbell and Donahue at World's, too? (Because, come on, the gold medal has been predetermined, already. It's really just a battle for silver and bronze)

I live for your H/D hate-on. XD

[displayname]

23 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Wow, you know you messed up when Lord Voldemort himself tells you to care about levels.

[annzeepark914]

Big thanks to HartofDixie (for the videos) & ChicksDigScars for those spot on comments. I'm still celebrating C/B winning Four Continents. But looking toward Worlds, it sure would be nice to see them do it again. The French are excellent but like H/D, it's always the same programs (IMO). I really like this FD of Chock & Bates. They look like a different dance team this season.

[ChicksDigScars]

17 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Big thanks to HartofDixie (for the videos) & ChicksDigScars for those spot on comments. I'm still celebrating C/B winning Four Continents. But looking toward Worlds, it sure would be nice to see them do it again. The French are excellent but like H/D, it's always the same programs (IMO). I really like this FD of Chock & Bates. They look like a different dance team this season.

And it seems like they've gotten a costume make over up in Montreal, too. I know Madison Chock made their costumes before, but this one seems more classy, less....LOUD.  And YES. Thankful to see a routine coming out of Montreal that isn't all face clutching and angst. I hope that C/B AND Hawayak and Baker don't end up with the bodice ripping faux romance novels on ice that H/D and P/C do every year. 

I saw the results pop up on Twitter long before NBCSN showed the pairs and dance at midnight. I thought, "Wow. Fourth? I wonder which one of them fell on their ass. Probably Zach." But this was better than any H/D hater (or should I say, "disliker") could imagine. If they had fallen, they'd KNOW before they got off the ice that they screwed up, and would look disappointed, but you wouldn't have gotten the facial expressions that we got yesterday. They were totally blindsided. I'm sorry that I find so much glee in it. I'm easily amused. 

Speaking of Pairs. It is nice to have a U.S. team on the ice that looks steady and strong. I think the Knerims are cute and sweet, but when they skate, you're just waiting for them to fall on a jumping pass. Shit, almost EVERY U.S. pair is like that.  Cain and LeDuc look more steady. They look like a pair that can get the U.S. two spots back.  How high do they have to finish to get a second pairs spot at World's?

Edited February 11, 2019 by ChicksDigScars

[HartofDixie]

12 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

How high do they have to finish to get a second pairs spot at World's?

They have to be top 10 to get 2 spots.

[HartofDixie]

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Isn't Jason Brown fairly tall too? He comes off that way on TV. (Also, not another good example.)

No, he's not tall: 5'7" according to the interwebs.

[ML89]

6 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Omg will he lose his jumps? Has anyone been that tall?

Brian Boitano and Chris Bowman both skated at 5' 10" (over 180), Robin Cousins was 185 (6 feet). 

Then there's Laurent Tobel who was 6'4" (I give Terry props for never making a basketball joke about Laurent, who was as tall as some of Terry's old teammates).

Boitano and Bowman landed quads, but not in competition. (At least I've read Bowman did at a Worlds practice in 91 and Boitano was trying one).

[displayname]

37 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Boitano and Bowman landed quads, but not in competition. (At least I've read Bowman did at a Worlds practice in 91 and Boitano was trying one). 

Maybe. But they didn't try and land as many quads as are needed now though. Although Boitano's triples really were great, so I wonder what happens to skaters now? The training methods are much better and yet.

[Impromptu]

180 cm (5'11") might be a magic number: 

Previous Olympic Gold Medalists... Alexei Urmanov (5'11"), Robin Cousins (6'), Brian Boitano (5'11"), Ilia Kulik (5'11"), Evgeni Plushenko (5'11").

[displayname]

All those people were much more muscular than the men you get now in skating... The number of rotations you have to cram in has increased, with lowered muscle mass to make it partly possible.

[Mittengirl]

I thought I noticed a little tension between Johnny and Tara.  Not there usual snarkiness aimed outward, but rather towards each other.  Anyone else?

[Mellowyellow]

3 hours ago, Impromptu said:

180 cm (5'11") might be a magic number: 

Previous Olympic Gold Medalists... Alexei Urmanov (5'11"), Robin Cousins (6'), Brian Boitano (5'11"), Ilia Kulik (5'11"), Evgeni Plushenko (5'11").

Ok I'm gonna pray Junliet buffs up and stops growing!

Lol this is like the one time it sucks to be tall as a dude.

[KittenPokerCheater]

2 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

I thought I noticed a little tension between Johnny and Tara.  Not there usual snarkiness aimed outward, but rather towards each other.  Anyone else?

Hell yes!

When Johnny wouldn't stop carping on one skater and Tara interrupted him.  Johnny was in a some kind of a mood this weekend.  And there was a lot of tension between the two- ZERO banter.

[annzeepark914]

2 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Hell yes!

When Johnny wouldn't stop carping on one skater and Tara interrupted him.  Johnny was in a some kind of a mood this weekend.  And there was a lot of tension between the two- ZERO banter.

Well, as Gomer would say:  Surprahz, surprahz, surprahz.  IMO, Johnny considers himself Royalty and to be interrupted by Tara (and I'm sure he got her message), had to have enraged him.  I think they're wearing out their novelty act as very unique, mod commentators.

[Libby96]

I was assuming the 4CC ice dance competition would feature a lot of good performances, but that H/D would skate away with the title.  I was so glad to be wrong about the latter.    I agree with the poster upthread who said that they never thought they would actively root against a US team, but H/D have made it possible.  Their utter shock and dismay in the kiss and cry made my day.  I am terrible, I know.

Maybe this will shake up worlds a bit.  But only a bit.  We all know P/C will win with a ridiculous score.  I don’t dislike them.  They are great.  I just don’t think they are that much better than everyone else.

In the men’s and ladies’ I am so sick of hearing about the UR’s.  I understand it’s part of the rules and needs to be mentioned so viewers can know why some skaters who don’t make highly visible errors are getting dinged.  But it gets tedious.  Sometimes I just want to enjoy the performance.  And every time Tara mentions a UR I think “Girlfriend, if they judged skating today the way they did 20 years ago, you would be so out of luck with that roller-skater double axel and teeny-tiny triple loop-triple-loop combo.”

[sweeks]

9 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Big thanks to HartofDixie (for the videos) & ChicksDigScars for those spot on comments. I'm still celebrating C/B winning Four Continents. But looking toward Worlds, it sure would be nice to see them do it again. The French are excellent but like H/D, it's always the same programs (IMO). I really like this FD of Chock & Bates. They look like a different dance team this season.

I love C/B's FD this season, too! It is well composed, and they seem to be having a ball when they skate it. Also, it is a refreshing break from the face clutching, "smoldering" routines that we get from H/D and (to a somewhat lesser extent) P/C.

I also think that C/B have improved a great deal over the course of a year. The Olympic Channel was airing highlights from the ice dance competition from PyongChang tonight, and I watched C/B's FD. Their routine this year was considerably more complex, and I think their skating skills are much stronger now than they were in 2018.