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OriginalCyn

By OriginalCyn
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ChicksDigScars
ChicksDigScars

“I wish the Shibutanis were [in Milan] because last year I gave them my medal,” Donohue said, “and I don’t plan on doing that this year.” Uhhh..what? Yeah, and they gave you their National title

absnow54
absnow54

I get that figure skating is a jumping sport right now, and Alyssa Lui is the best chance for competing with the Russians, but damn, Mariah Bell’s free skate is the reason I find this sport so compell

Jeddah
Jeddah

I do love the Shibs, but it still would have been an obnoxious thing to say about any team, not just them. It implies that they didn’t earn their medal. That they didn’t work for it. That their two cl

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IdleBrook

IdleBrook

6 hours ago, displayname said:

Han Yan will be back next season.

This is great news.  I was scared he might retire.  Han has such lovely skating skills, and he has my favorite triple axel in the men’s field.

I am also excited for Sui and Han’s return.  I don’t know if they have had much time to rebuild after Wenjing’s injury, but they always bring the skating skills and drama even when their big elements aren’t completely there.  Worlds felt empty last year without them.

Moving on to US Nationals, I am excited for the battle in ice dance.  I have a soft spot for Hawayek/Baker, but Chock and Bates have my second favorite tango choreography this season.  While I love the choreography, they look cautious performance wise and the program needs more mileage.  They seem set to peak at March for worlds rather than nationals.  

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displayname

displayname

(edited)
5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

What you didn't enjoy "JULIEEEEEEET" being screamed out when he did a triple loop? 😂

It is bad. Don't know what they were thinking, or why people like it unironically. I can see the ironic, memetic appeal, but it's objectively horrific. It's like a C-grade movie that becomes a cult classic. Never underestimate the strange internal workings of the masses, I guess.

4 hours ago, IdleBrook said:

This is great news.  I was scared he might retire.  Han has such lovely skating skills, and he has my favorite triple axel in the men’s field.

I am also excited for Sui and Han’s return.  I don’t know if they have had much time to rebuild after Wenjing’s injury, but they always bring the skating skills and drama even when their big elements aren’t completely there.  Worlds felt empty last year without them.


He was injured for quite a bit. He and Boyang can push each other through internal competition now.

Agreed.

Edited by displayname
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IdleBrook

IdleBrook

17 minutes ago, Harry24 said:

Plus he is so purty.

Han is gorgeous.  Team China is reliable for good eye candy.  I think both Han and Jin Yang have a certain elegance about them that reminds me of Zhao Hongbo.  

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ChicksDigScars

ChicksDigScars

(edited)
16 hours ago, IdleBrook said:

Han is gorgeous.  Team China is reliable for good eye candy.  I think both Han and Jin Yang have a certain elegance about them that reminds me of Zhao Hongbo.  

Ohhh. Zhao Hongbo. I always thought he was kinda hot. 

 

Is there a site with live results from U.S. Nationals? ISU always has the good result page, but since Nationals isn't an ISU sanctioned event, it's harder to find for them. 

 

ETA: I think I found one. Still not as good as ISU's results pages, but it will have to do:

 

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/index.asp

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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BelleBrit

BelleBrit

https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/12403-isu-statement-unexpected-passing-of-john-coughlin?templateParam=15

ISU's statement on the passing of John Coughlin.  His sister posted on her Facebook page last night that he took his own life yesterday.  People in the skating community hadn't directly referenced his passing, but they had started to make vague social media posts late into the night (Alexa and Chris Knierim, Nate Bartholomay, and Michael Buckley) that seemed to confirm that the rumors were true. The ISU statement just came out. 

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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

There's an article in USA online re: his learning he wouldn't he allowed to work at Nationals, as a commentator, or even be there. He'd just resigned as brand mgr for Wilson Blade company. That sure is a ton of negatives for a person, whose whole world is skating, to handle.

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

5 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/12403-isu-statement-unexpected-passing-of-john-coughlin?templateParam=15

ISU's statement on the passing of John Coughlin.  His sister posted on her Facebook page last night that he took his own life yesterday.  People in the skating community hadn't directly referenced his passing, but they had started to make vague social media posts late into the night (Alexa and Chris Knierim, Nate Bartholomay, and Michael Buckley) that seemed to confirm that the rumors were true. The ISU statement just came out. 

So THAT'S what Chris and Alexa were tweeting sad emojis about! My condolences to John's family and friends!

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Jeddah

Jeddah

1 hour ago, HartofDixie said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/01/19/former-us-skating-champion-john-coughlin-found-dead-after-suspension/2623792002/

 

Twitter is a mess today. I’ve seen more than one tweet blaming Christine Brennan and calling her a murderer. It’s going to be a depressing Nationals.

I’ve seen that too, and it’s a shame. She’s a reporter. That’s her job. Just like Safe Sport was doing their job by investigating.

It’s just a tragedy all around. It’s a very sad situation for everyone involved. 

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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

3 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/01/19/former-us-skating-champion-john-coughlin-found-dead-after-suspension/2623792002/

 

Twitter is a mess today. I’ve seen more than one tweet blaming Christine Brennan and calling her a murderer. It’s going to be a depressing Nationals.

Some people are such extremists. This is outrageous. Brennan was just doing her job as a journalist.

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Souris

Souris

2 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I’ve seen that too, and it’s a shame. She’s a reporter. That’s her job. Just like Safe Sport was doing their job by investigating.

It’s just a tragedy all around. It’s a very sad situation for everyone involved. 

Indeed. I was shocked to see the report of his suspension from the sport, and then shocked to see the news of his suicide. I know nothing about what did or didn't happen in regard to whatever charges were made against him, but what a terrible situation all around.

It's definitely going to hang over Nationals. I wonder if they will talk about it on the air or try to avoid the subject?

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BelleBrit

BelleBrit

(edited)
14 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

Skating Lesson just posted a video

TSL is trash a lot of the times, but I thought that Dave did an admirable job of trying to steer the conversation back and maintain seriousness whenever the interviewee started to laugh awkwardly...I'm guessing she was just nervous...

It's been interesting to see the skating community's reaction to this.  Unlike Denis Ten's death where everyone immediately posted pictures to their Instagram with their memories of him, it took longer yesterday, before some people gradually started to post pictures, etc.  Delilah's FB post came early and just seems unfortunate and like something that could honestly prevent others from coming forward in even similar situations...others, like Gracie's, seemed to be trying to acknowledge what was going on without directly referencing the accusations.  Not everyone is going to have the nuance of Mervin Tran's post, but I also feel for a lot of these people and they are human. Gracie was one of the first people I thought of when this happened, because she talked about having suicidal ideation (in a separate interview on a youtube channel a few months ago that was pretty quickly taken down) and has been holding seminars for young skaters with Coughlin, some as recently as last month...wonder if she knew of the investigation that was going on at that time....it seems like a lot of people would have known, if SafeSport was contacting people from years ago, like "Jen" from the TSL video....

edit: TSL video already removed.  I have to say that I would imagine SafeSport would not be crazy about people who claimed to have been questioned in the investigation being interviewed, but it could have been removed for any number of reasons.  I did seem to wonder where the heck the interview was going at certain points...though it seems like TSL's main purpose was that they were trying to say that the decision to suspend someone does not just come about suddenly.  The choice of interviewee seemed pretty random....

Edited by BelleBrit
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WhitneyWhit

WhitneyWhit

This will be unpopular and veers in to speaking ill of the dead so forgive me, but I never thought much of John Coughlin. I soured on him in 2011 when he tried out with the mess on ice that is Caydee Denney behind Caitlin Yankowskas' back, leading to rumors that people asked her about while they were competing a program he dedicated to his mother. Then of course it became pretty well known that he did this because he was romantically involved with the barely legal Caydee. And I remember back in the day him losing his shit any time someone made a connection between ballet and skating with him finally stating "I'm not a fucking ballerina" on Facebook.

 

With that said, this is a tragedy all around. I'm sorry to his family, especially his father who lost his wife around this same time 9 years ago.  This was such an extreme and tragic reaction that I'm left wondering if more was coming, like a criminal charge.

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carrier76

carrier76

I just finished that video about 5 minutes ago, so that was quick.

 

Chris Knierim seems to be trolling people who are tweeting concerns about the allegation(s), basically telling a lot of people they don’t know what they are talking about. I don’t know if “trolling” is the correct term, but it’s just kind of odd.

 

WhitneyWhit I know what you mean about him and kind of agree.

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

(edited)
15 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

Chris Knierim seems to be trolling people who are tweeting concerns about the allegation(s), basically telling a lot of people they don’t know what they are talking about. I don’t know if “trolling” is the correct term, but it’s just kind of odd.

Well, if they're spouting off about things they know nothing about (we still don't even know the reason for the suspension), then Chris SHOULD be calling them out on it because they're not helping, even though they think they are. All they're really doing is making it harder for John's grieving family and friends to deal with their loss. So yeah, I agree with Chris.  They need to shut up and take a seat at least until all the facts are in -- and even then, they need to be careful not to prolong the healing process for John's loved ones.

Edited by legaleagle53
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specialj67

specialj67

I’m not surprised the TSL video was taken down—glad I was able to watch it while it was up. While there were numerous awkward parts and irrelevant asides, I agree with one of the main points: there should be greater transparency about what actually IS their process/protocols for investigating complaints. I would hope that if people were more informed about, jutst like, the process itself, there wouldn’t be as much rushing to judgment or evidence-free speculation about these kinds of things.

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Jeddah

Jeddah

I thought TSL did a good job of discussing this very complex issue. I’m glad I took the time to watch it last night! I wonder who made them take the video down.

@WhitneyWhit - I wasn’t going to say anything, but I agree with a lot of what you said.

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ombelico

ombelico

I watched the TSL video last night, and while I get that they needed to be a bit vague about who "Jen" was and what her connection to the Coughlin case is, the story of her primary connection being that both she and Coughlin trained at the OTC in the early-mid '90s seemed a bit strange given that he would have been only 10-12 years old at that time. Would SafeSport really have been investigating his conduct at that age? It really made me wonder if she was actually being honest about being questioned in the case - perhaps TSL got a tip in that regard that led them to remove the video.

I think the point that SafeSport goes through a process of evidence-gathering before suspending someone is important (and that it's not just an automatic step that's taken as soon as someone files a complaint with them), but "Jen" was not a good interview and whatever the reason, it's best that they took that video down. 

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Jaded

Jaded

(edited)

"Jen" and her timeline about other events she described that happened in her life seemed kinda shady too. I kept trying to do the math in my head while she was speaking. "Jen" said she was a few years older then Coughlin I think so if she's 39/40 she would have been in her mid to late teens in the early-mid 90's.  I only got to watch the first half hour maybe and planned on watching the rest of the video later. It was removed before I could do so. The fighting on TSL's social media that's happening over this is a whole other drama onto itself. 

Edited by Jaded
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BelleBrit

BelleBrit

(edited)
13 hours ago, Jaded said:

"Jen" and her timeline about other events she described that happened in her life seemed kinda shady too. I kept trying to do the math in my head while she was speaking. "Jen" said she was a few years older then Coughlin I think so if she's 39/40 she would have been in her mid to late teens in the early-mid 90's.  I only got to watch the first half hour maybe and planned on watching the rest of the video later. It was removed before I could do so. The fighting on TSL's social media that's happening over this is a whole other drama onto itself. 

I accidentally stumbled upon Jen (actually, "Jenn") on Twitter without even looking for her, where she links to a fiction book on Amazon that she apparently wrote with her full name included, so I'm not sure why they are trying to make her seem anonymous when she obviously has an online presence....also she had a podcase at one point?  Not that they had to give her last name in the video, but I don't think that anyone would have questioned it if Dave had not mentioned her last name instead of saying "we're going to CALL YOU Jenn", like she was deep throat or something. 

I hope that she is not being harassed, but, I also hope that Dave vetted her a little bit.  Not doubting that she was contacted in the investigation, but in the original video someone commented that John was not at the training center she had referenced in the 90s, and Dave replied that he would let Jenn respond if she chose to, but the video was taken down.  I haven't watched the interview with Christine yet, does he say why the video from yesterday was taken down? "Jenn" does not come across that great on Twitter, but most people don't nowadays I guess...

I did read that Christine said that the identity of the first accuser is well known and that judges are angry with her, which is just disgusting. I pray that this person is safe and protected if they go to nationals.  The PSA is also out with a rather glib sounding statement tonight, where they seem more concerned with protecting coaches than about protecting the victims. 

Edited by BelleBrit
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displayname

displayname

(edited)
1 hour ago, BelleBrit said:

 

I did read that Christine said that the identity of the first accuser is well known and that judges are angry with her, which is just disgusting. I pray that this person is safe and protected if they go to nationals.  The PSA is also out with a rather glib sounding statement tonight, where they seem more concerned with protecting coaches than about protecting the victims. 

This is, frankly, horrifying.

Edited by displayname
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Jillibean

Jillibean

I’m very saddened to hear that John Coughlin died by suicide. That said, I worry about the effect this will have on people who were already skeptical of a governing body for safety. I’m already seeing blame being placed on the unnamed alleged victims who made the reports as well as on the investigators. This is a tragedy. It’s also not a reason to stop taking measures to protect underage athletes.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)
26 minutes ago, displayname said:

Apparently, there's now a likelihood that the investigation won't be completed. Which would be completely the wrong decision.

There needs to be some sort of investigation, if only to try to discern the facts, and, if the allegations have merit, to use the specific situation to learn ways to protect children better.  I understand that Coughlin's family is undoubtedly devastated, but, it seems that there are at least 3 women who complained and 2 of them were underage.  Not trying to get to the bottom of what happened and what might be done in the future is not the way to go and does a disservice to Coughlin and his memory, if somehow the evidence doesn't hold up (although, like most of us, I suspect that it will).

It seems like the Center for SafeSport is saying that their investigation is concluded because their role is in investigating adults involved with sport and making recommendations as to their future access to children and, since Coughlin is no longer alive, they no longer have jurisdiction.  However, that doesn't preclude USFSA from hiring a private investigative entity to evaluate the situation and prepare a report.

Edited by doodlebug
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BelleBrit

BelleBrit

(edited)
4 hours ago, specialj67 said:

Just finished the Christine Brennan interview on TSL about reporting on the John Coughlin story, and Dave does directly address why he took down the first interview video. At the very end, around the 51:30 mark. 

Thank you.  Ok, after listening, I agree with Dave that it's probably best not to speak with a rag like the Daily Mail-on the other hand, I do think that you're sort of making yourself part of the story if you have someone who claims to have been contacted about the investigation in for an interview.  I'm not sure whether it's worth him putting that interview back up.  So Dave was the one who said that the identity of the person who made the first accusation is known in skating/judging circles.  The fact that the investigation may not be completed really makes me wonder as to what the specific allegations are, since sexual misconduct could cover such a spectrum of things.  I also agree with Christine that John seemed to have such a larger than life presence and respect in the skating community that it is unlikely that he could not have recovered from something like this if these allegations were simply unfounded.  The investigation not continuing seems lose-lose for everyone, even if SafeSport has determined that the "threat" is gone. 

Edited by BelleBrit
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doodlebug

doodlebug

21 minutes ago, BelleBrit said:

Thank you.  Ok, after listening, I agree with Dave that it's probably best not to speak with a rag like the Daily Mail-on the other hand, I do think that you're sort of making yourself part of the story if you have someone who claims to have been contacted about the investigation in for an interview. 

Yes, it does seem disingenuous for Dave to decide to pull the interview because he was contacted by a tabloid.  He after all pursued Jenn and interviewed her himself.  I enjoy his insights into skating, but he is hardly an investigative reporter and I don't think he did the interview so much as a piece of investigative journalism as much as a way to garner hits for his site, for the publicity and recognition.  In other words, I don't think his motives were entirely pure, so I am not that impressed that he is the pot calling the kettle black here.

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Ruby Gillis

Ruby Gillis

35 minutes ago, BelleBrit said:

The investigation not continuing seems lose-lose for everyone, even if SafeSport has determined that the "threat" is gone. 

One thing from the Christine Brennan interview:  SafeSport only has 4 full-time employees!

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ChromaKelly

ChromaKelly

9 minutes ago, Ruby Gillis said:

One thing from the Christine Brennan interview:  SafeSport only has 4 full-time employees!

Wow, what? That's concerning.
As a parent of a figure skater who will be headed to training camps and such in the next couple years, I want this investigated.  It doesn't matter if he's dead, there are always other people involved in the cover-ups, and they need to make changes to not allow this kind of thing to happen in the first place. ALL sports should learn from the horrendous things that happened in gymnastics. I am also kind of grossed out by the tweets I'm seeing that he should not have been suspended until the investigation is concluded. Uh, no. A suspension is just that. He wasn't kicked out. He needed to be investigated, and if innocent, then he would be reinstated. 

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doodlebug

doodlebug

17 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Wow, what? That's concerning.
As a parent of a figure skater who will be headed to training camps and such in the next couple years, I want this investigated.  It doesn't matter if he's dead, there are always other people involved in the cover-ups, and they need to make changes to not allow this kind of thing to happen in the first place. ALL sports should learn from the horrendous things that happened in gymnastics. I am also kind of grossed out by the tweets I'm seeing that he should not have been suspended until the investigation is concluded. Uh, no. A suspension is just that. He wasn't kicked out. He needed to be investigated, and if innocent, then he would be reinstated. 

Also, Coughlin was not suspended initially.  It was after the investigation got underway, that Safesport felt that the accusations were credible enough to make the call and prevent him from having contact with minor children in figure skating.  That only makes sense, they have got to err on the side of caution, on the side of the children.  If there weren't red flags out there, he wouldn't have been suspended.  It can take months and months for enough evidence for criminal charges to be gathered, allowing Coughlin to continue to work with kids while waiting for that to happen would have been far, far worse.

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ChicksDigScars

ChicksDigScars

It's a disservice to all, not to get to the bottom of the accusations, regardless of the accused's death.  Leaving this hanging puts his family in the position of having their dead son/brother judged based on innuendo. If the accusations have merit, not following through puts the victims in a position of being all out BLAMED for another person's death by those who think that Coughlin was wrongly accused.  This needs to be seen to its conclusion, to either clear Coughlin's name and memory, or give the victim's some peace of mind.  If the USFSA simply shrugs their shoulders and says, "No biggie, he's dead," then they are as useless a federation as I've suspected for a long time. 

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ChicksDigScars

ChicksDigScars

(edited)

Mervin Tran's response on Twitter to his friend, John Coughlin, and the victims, as well as his thoughts on suicide. My guess is his confusion is a common thing right now, in the circle of skating competitors:

 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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displayname

displayname

59 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

If the USFSA simply shrugs their shoulders and says, "No biggie, he's dead," then they are as useless a federation as I've suspected for a long time. 

They most certainly are. There's stuff you can find out if you talk to people who know what happens inside the USFS. It's pretty bothersome to hear.

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ombelico

ombelico

5 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

there are always other people involved in the cover-ups, and they need to make changes to not allow this kind of thing to happen in the first place. ALL sports should learn from the horrendous things that happened in gymnastics.

Exactly - seeing the reaction from the skating community being so supportive of Coughlin, trashing SafeSport, and disregarding the victims shows that they have learned NOTHING from the Nassar saga in gymnastics. So what if he seemed like a nice guy? THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. No guy's going to come up and say, "Hey, can I be alone with your daughter/son? I'm a sexual predator." The original reaction from many in the gymnastics community (including USAG) to the first IndyStar article about Nassar was to trash Jamie Dantzscher (since even though she was anonymous, it was easy to figure out who Jane Doe was from the info in the court filing), but lo and behold, she was telling the truth! 

The same people who don't want a "rush to judgement" against the accused are so often the same who rush to trash the reputation and question the motives of accusers. 

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Darknight

Darknight

12 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

Wow, what? That's concerning.
As a parent of a figure skater who will be headed to training camps and such in the next couple years, I want this investigated.  It doesn't matter if he's dead, there are always other people involved in the cover-ups, and they need to make changes to not allow this kind of thing to happen in the first place. ALL sports should learn from the horrendous things that happened in gymnastics. I am also kind of grossed out by the tweets I'm seeing that he should not have been suspended until the investigation is concluded. Uh, no. A suspension is just that. He wasn't kicked out. He needed to be investigated, and if innocent, then he would be reinstated. 

This. Exactly. I agree. Sadly, I think within the next few years we will see more victims cover forward. The fact that someone like Nikolia Morozov can still coach regardless is concerning. 

 

I see so many shaming the victims and defending the accuser. Regardless this need to be investigated. I'm a dance mom and sports mom. A dance teacher who coached and trained mega stars in the dance world was accused of raping and sexually abusing his students. It was shocking. He was a top dance teacher from a well know dance studio. He got away with it for years. 

10 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

It's a disservice to all, not to get to the bottom of the accusations, regardless of the accused's death.  Leaving this hanging puts his family in the position of having their dead son/brother judged based on innuendo. If the accusations have merit, not following through puts the victims in a position of being all out BLAMED for another person's death by those who think that Coughlin was wrongly accused.  This needs to be seen to its conclusion, to either clear Coughlin's name and memory, or give the victim's some peace of mind.  If the USFSA simply shrugs their shoulders and says, "No biggie, he's dead," then they are as useless a federation as I've suspected for a long time. 

USA FED has been a useless federation in my eyes. I hope they'll investigate this but they might throw it under the rug. What a way to start nationals right?

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