Figure Skating

[Salacious Kitty]

I want to know what it's going to take for H/B to get those levels and GOE. Their programs score appallingly low for what they present.

[SeanC]

A very merry Christmas indeed for Team Lane, who become the first coaches to win both the junior and senior dance events at the Final in the same edition.

[Salacious Kitty]

Holy crap, Isabeau medals. Didn't see that coming. 

[absnow54]

17 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Holy crap, Isabeau medals. Didn't see that coming. 

A silver at that! Wow. 

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

A silver at that! Wow. 

Didn't predict Kaori coming last in the free skate. Yikes. ☹️

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

OMG! Chock & Bates changed their Free Dance and it is SO much better! They still came in second but once they get more reps with that dance, they will be unbeatable. It is so much better suited to their strengths.

Good! I hope this means that they look more like themselves and not a couple of Papadakis & Cizeron wannabes. How did they change their FD? 

[justmehere]

3 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I want to know what it's going to take for H/B to get those levels and GOE. Their programs score appallingly low for what they present.

Agreed. It's so frustrating. 

[SeanC]

Loena looked kind of embarrassed to have medaled there, but I'm happy for her.

[Good Queen Jane]

6 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Good! I hope this means that they look more like themselves and not a couple of Papadakis & Cizeron wannabes. How did they change their FD? 

It is completely new. It was fast with a lot of complicated lifts and no longing looks at each other. The music is Souffrance by the Orange Blossoms which I didn’t know at all. It just flowed well. Chock is wearing a bright colored dress with a swirling pattern which worked well with all the turns. It was the exact opposite of P/C. I gave them a standing ovation in my living room.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Good Queen Jane

[annzeepark914]

3 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

It is completely new. It was fast with a lot of complicated lifts and no longing looks at each other. The music is Souffrance by the Orange Blossoms which I didn’t know at all. It just flowed well. Chock is wear a bright colored dress with a swirling pattern which worked well with all the turns. It was the exact opposite of P/C. I gave them a standing ovation in my living room.

Thank God they've returned to what many of us love about C/B 🎉🤗. 

[Maelstrom]

Just watched the mens’ event - wow, Shoma was amazing! It’s so exciting to see him finally get to shine without having to fight his way out of anyone’s shadow. He’s such an outstanding skater and really does make it all look effortless. Bravo!

Is it because we had the weekend off last week or has Johnny gotten even more irritating? He seemed super bitchy and catty, especially regarding all Japanese men not named Shoma. Maybe I’m just imagining it. But I did get awfully tired of hearing his double standard of smack talking certain skaters for not having any artistic development yet not mentioning that Ilia doesn’t exactly have much to offer in the components side of things, either.

At any rate, it’s so nice to finally get to see an entire competition! NBC is so generous 🙄

[healthnut]

They’ve been making changes since Skate America and this was far and away their best skate. They had a good competition. You could make a good argument they should’ve won the rhythm dance. I feel much better about their chances going forward whereas Evita is becoming a bit stale. 

The women’s event was a mess but I’m happy for Mai and Isabeau. 

LOVED Shoma and Sota today. Beautiful programs. I’ll definitely rewatch those. 

[specialj67]

19 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I want to know what it's going to take for H/B to get those levels and GOE. Their programs score appallingly low for what they present.

For real! Their free dance is exquisite, and their opening one-foot step sequence is *chef’s kiss*. But in all seriousness, I think a lot of the lackluster scoring has to do with there not being much (if any) height difference between the two of them. The old school aesthetic ideal of ice dance is the male partner being at least a few inches taller than the female partner. That H/B don’t fit that works against them. Also, relative to other top teams, they haven’t always been as fast and were prone to making errors. That seems to be less of an issue in recent years, at least from what I can tell through a screen. Ice dance is still such a reputation-based discipline, it can take years for a team to win over judges.

I don’t really care for Ted Barton’s commentary delivery style (he is the English language commentator on the ISU’s GPF streams this week), but I totally agree with his gushing over H/B’s GPF free dance. Is it a retread of last year’s? Sure. Doesn’t mean I love it any less!

[Salacious Kitty]

G/F have the same lack of height difference (she actually looks taller), yet they manage to get top tier scores. 

I can't figure out the bias against H/B. JL is sublime.

[healthnut]

H/B need a signature piece, a stand out routine that makes the judges take notice. For Piper/Paul, it was their Starry, Starry Night. For Chock/Bates, it was the snake dance. Lilah/Lewis's Vogue dance. They are lovely and they have great elements but their packaging is horrible. They don't stand out. They need that great piece next year because if they don't, they will get passed by Green/Parsons or Carriera/Ponomarenko. Bratti/Somerville aren't far behind and Zingas/Kolesnik were scored very well out of the gate at Golden Spin this weekend. And if you don't believe it won't happen, ask Chock/Bates. They were expected to be the next great American ice dance team only to get passed by the Shibutanis and then Hubbell/Donahue. As a result, they are still skating, chasing results they were hoping to get two Olympic cycles ago.

I've always liked H/B, they are talented and very versatile and I think they could take that next step but they need to be more innovative like Anissina/Peizerat were 20+ years ago. Someone I was having a conversation with on twitter yesterday suggested Uninvited by Alannis Morisette as a good idea for them. I agree, something like that where the music is bigger and they make a big impression.

[ChicksDigScars]

On 12/10/2022 at 2:44 PM, Good Queen Jane said:

OMG! Chock & Bates changed their Free Dance and it is SO much better! They still came in second but once they get more reps with that dance, they will be unbeatable. It is so much better suited to their strengths.

They were SO good. And more like what we're used to from Chock and Bates. Glad they pitched the old number. I feel they got screwed in the end with their placement. I like G/P's rhythm dance (the purple dress!!) but Evita? Noooooo. Just kill me now with that effing song. 

And seeing the Italians skating AGAINST C/B and G/P, I can see that they are a slight step below. They got so much press as being the "hot" pair leading up to the GPF, because they were not skating against the other two teams. Putting all three on the ice together, and you can see that they're not quite up to the other, AFAIC.

And Barbara Fusar Poli still frightens me. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by ChicksDigScars

[Salacious Kitty]

Ah memories...

[NUguy514]

15 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

And Barbara Fusar Poli still frightens me. 

Scary Babs!!

💖💖💖

[specialj67]

24 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

And seeing the Italians skating AGAINST C/B and G/P, I can see that they are a slight step below. They got so much press as being the "hot" pair leading up to the GPF, because they were not skating against the other two teams. Putting all three on the ice together, and you can see that they're not quite up to the other, AFAIC.

C/B have the zazz and G/P have the schmaltz. The Italian team doesn’t seem to have that something extra in the performance to make them stand out against the other world champion contenders. They seem to be very good at skating cleanly and precisely, which really benefits them when other teams make mistakes.

[ChicksDigScars]

Oh MY. And it's the look, paired with that almost comically whimsical dress. 

"Just stay down there, Maurizio."

[annzeepark914]

Those of us watching Olympic ice dancing that night will *never* forget Babs and her death stare at poor Maurizio 👀. He's lucky to have lived to see another day!

[Domenicholas]

https://skatecanada.ca/2022/12/definition-of-team-updated-to-reflect-gender-diversity-across-the-podium-pathway/

Skate Canada refines the definition of "Team" for pairs and ice dance from "one man and one woman" to "two people" for domestic competitions. I think this is great for inclusively. I suspect that the immediate effect of this will be that nonbinary individuals like American Timothy LeDuc will be gendered correctly within the Canadian protocols, but I can't wait to see same-sex pairs and ice dance teams take advantage of the new rules. I also hope that this ruling catches on in other feds, especially the United States, although I know it would be an uphill battle for the ISU as a whole.

[honeywest]

Gold at Japanese Nationals for Kaori Sakamoto and Muramoto and Takahashi!

[Salacious Kitty]

Kaori's skate. So far, not blocked.

 

[SeanC]

On Ice Perspectives' Christmas videos, from the Port of Montreal:

Lajoie & Lagha

Bronsard & Richmond

Lim & Quan

Harris & Chan

Holubtsova & Bielobrov

[Salacious Kitty]

Looks like the Men's event at Japanese Nats was a splatfest. Congrats to Shoma, who had just one. No videos that I can find. Boo!

Edited December 25, 2022 by Salacious Kitty

[Salacious Kitty]

Shoma's free skate. So far, not blocked, but as we know, that could change at any moment. 

 

[Good Queen Jane]

Am I the only one freaked out by Kamila Valieva's skate as Wednesday Addams at the Russian Nationals?

Edited December 29, 2022 by Good Queen Jane

[peachmangosteen]

Oooh, I wanna see that!

[Lady Whistleup]

I think with H/B it's a matter of aesthetics. I feel like ice dancing judging even more so than the other disciplines has judges that strongly favor a certain aesthetic -- a slim but strong male and a shorter, super-slim female. Most of the favored ice dancing teams over the years have basically looked like this, although their actual styles might have differed.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think with H/B it's a matter of aesthetics. I feel like ice dancing judging even more so than the other disciplines has judges that strongly favor a certain aesthetic -- a slim but strong male and a shorter, super-slim female. Most of the favored ice dancing teams over the years have basically looked like this, although their actual styles might have differed.

Guignard/Fabbri are similarly built to H/B (I think she's actually a little taller than him) yet they get top tier scores.

[annzeepark914]

5 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think with H/B it's a matter of aesthetics. I feel like ice dancing judging even more so than the other disciplines has judges that strongly favor a certain aesthetic -- a slim but strong male and a shorter, super-slim female. Most of the favored ice dancing teams over the years have basically looked like this, although their actual styles might have differed.

With H/B, she just looks bigger than him, even though she's definitely not big.  

[Salacious Kitty]

8 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

With H/B, she just looks bigger than him, even though she's definitely not big.  

Same goes for G/F. But they get top tier scores. What do H/B have to do to be considered upper echelon? Their programs are top rate.

[Lady Whistleup]

45 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Same goes for G/F. But they get top tier scores. What do H/B have to do to be considered upper echelon? Their programs are top rate.

I think politicking. They've never been the top team at IAM. There's always been teams ahead of them in the queue. There was the TOP TOP team P/C, and then the upper level teams like C/B and H/D. 

[Salacious Kitty]

I hate that we even have to talk about politicking. Skaters should be scored based on their programs. And H/B are getting consistently robbed, have been for a few years. 

As an uber, I am pissed on their behalf. 

[Domenicholas]

My biggest worry for Hawayak/Baker is after Chock/Bates retire. There's always been a "wait your turn" mentality with regards to ice dancing, so H/B would logically would be America's top team afterwards. If they're not getting the love internationally, however, the U.S. may throw their political backing behind other teams like Green/Parsons, Carreira/Ponomarenko, Bratti/Somerville, or even newer teams like Brown/Brown or Zingas/Kolesnik.

On 12/29/2022 at 5:36 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Oooh, I wanna see that!

Ask and you shall receive

 

[annzeepark914]

Does anyone have the schedule for NBC coverage that also shows coverage by E and whoever else will cover Nationals?

Found the basics at sportsmediawatch. Can't copy/paste right now. It just lists times and who's broadcasting.

Edited January 6, 2023 by annzeepark914

[Maelstrom]

Here’s the link I’ve been going by:

https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/sports/2022/10/5/television-schedule.aspx

[annzeepark914]

So, there's no broadcasting pairs SP except probably on Peacock? 

[blackwing]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:51 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

Am I the only one freaked out by Kamila Valieva's skate as Wednesday Addams at the Russian Nationals?

What is her current status?  I thought the Russian Anti Doping Agency (or whatever the official name is) said it finished its investigation in the fall but would not disclose the results.  Does the fact that she competed at the Russian Nationals mean that the Russian agency exonerated her?

I recall reading that the World Anti Doping Agency commented that Russia is taking too long, and referred the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

I am aware that Russian skaters are still banned from all events this year, but I guess she is still considered by Russia to have done nothing wrong?

[NUguy514]

I firmly believe Russia and the IOC are just trying to extend this shitshow and hide any evidence so that everyone forgets about it and Russia can keep its ill-gotten team gold.

[annzeepark914]

21 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I firmly believe Russia and the IOC are just trying to extend this shitshow and hide any evidence so that everyone forgets about it and Russia can keep its ill-gotten team gold.

We need an icon for hurling. This sounds about right. But, as I've previously posted, I don't miss the Russians one damn bit. They've gotten away with cheating in both summer & winter sports for years. They have great athletes w/o cheating, but TPTB just *have* to beat everyone. Pathetic.

Edited January 11, 2023 by annzeepark914

[carrier76]

This is a random question, but….what is Vera Wang’s whole deal with figure skaters? I know she used to skate, and designed Michelle’s costumes, but then there was this whole thing with Evan Lysacek, and now she’s kind of glommed on to Nathan Chen. Am I seeing something weird where there’s nothing weird? Or is it weird?

[Maelstrom]

On 12/29/2022 at 7:51 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

Am I the only one freaked out by Kamila Valieva's skate as Wednesday Addams at the Russian Nationals?

No. No you are not.

I'm not sure if knowing about the drama she's been through since the Olympics explains that, or makes it worse...

[Good Queen Jane]

Surprise, surprise! The Russian Anti-Doping Agency finds "no fault" by Kamila Valieva for the drug test violation announced at the Olympics.

 

[NUguy514]

23 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Surprise, surprise! The Russian Anti-Doping Agency finds "no fault" by Kamila Valieva for the drug test violation announced at the Olympics.

 

[ramurphy2005]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:24 PM, carrier76 said:

This is a random question, but….what is Vera Wang’s whole deal with figure skaters? I know she used to skate, and designed Michelle’s costumes, but then there was this whole thing with Evan Lysacek, and now she’s kind of glommed on to Nathan Chen. Am I seeing something weird where there’s nothing weird? Or is it weird?

She designed Nancy Kerrigan's dresses, at least for the '94 Olympics, too. 

I think it's just the whole she used to skate, and likes designing stuff for people who come to her. I have no idea what sort of financial things are involved. 

I will also say that Michelle's Tosca dress was my favorite Vera designed dress.  

[SeanC]

A pretty good Canadian nationals this year, other than the mostly dispiriting men's event (apart from Keegan's gold medal sendoff).

Fun development for fans of 1990s skating: the bronze medalist here was Josee Chouinard's daughter, who has been sort of hanging around in the mid-tier domestic ranks the last few years but put it (mostly) all together here.

 

[honeywest]

Hawayek and Baker have withdrawn from Nationals, saying they have had “significant physical injuries that have led to challenges in our mental health and we feel it is in our best interest to prioritize this currently.”

[Good Queen Jane]

11 hours ago, honeywest said:

Hawayek and Baker have withdrawn from Nationals, saying they have had “significant physical injuries that have led to challenges in our mental health and we feel it is in our best interest to prioritize this currently.”

Yikes! That doesn't sound good for the future of H/B. I wonder if they have gotten worn out because of never making the next step up. I was looking forward to seeing them at Nationals.