Figure Skating

[annzeepark914]

26 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Yes, you could see it in the eyes. absolutely. She had the two falls (one was a step out, IIRC) and then she skated exquisitely. It's a testament to how gorgeous her skating was that she got the silver, which Slutskaya's team naturally contested. (Please, Irina. There's no contest.) And she was so GOOD in her short program! I loved Dark Eyes.

Dark Eyes was the one program of Sasha's that I've never forgotten. And I always looked forward to that pause...and then her straight line skating that just went with the music (and that gorgeous costume).  Didn't Slutskaya throw her bronze medal in the trash can in the locker room that night? 

[Mellowyellow]

Slutskaya just needed to be clean and then the gold was hers right?

All this makes me really appreciate how badass Alina was for tacking on that Loop after wobbling a bit on her first Lutz. I thought she looked nervous before she started. 

[Growsonwalls]

People often get nerves at the Olympics. Gordeeva and Grinkov were maybe the most consistent team of all time but in the 1994 Olympics Sergei made some mistakes in both the long and short program. Katia said in her book that he was very unhappy about those mistakes and didn't have a good experience at all at his second Olympics whereas she really liked it. 

[Jeddah]

5 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Yes, you could see it in the eyes. absolutely. She had the two falls (one was a step out, IIRC) and then she skated exquisitely. It's a testament to how gorgeous her skating was that she got the silver, which Slutskaya's team naturally contested. (Please, Irina. There's no contest.) And she was so GOOD in her short program! I loved Dark Eyes.

Even with the falls, I think Sasha should have won. I adore Shizuka Arakawa, but she popped some jumps and only did five clean triples too. Sasha was better on spins, footwork, and spiral sequence.

But if I really had my way Mao Asada would have been three months older, and she would have won gold in 2006.

[Mellowyellow]

10 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Yes, you could see it in the eyes. absolutely. She had the two falls (one was a step out, IIRC) and then she skated exquisitely. It's a testament to how gorgeous her skating was that she got the silver, which Slutskaya's team naturally contested. (Please, Irina. There's no contest.) And she was so GOOD in her short program! I loved Dark Eyes.

I've watched it twice again today. To her credit she didn't check out (I see people zombie skate sometimes after they fall) and I thought she looked wonderfully tragic a la Juliet in that final pose 😍

[displayname]

Ahaha, the Olympics Twitter account just tweeted about Arakawa's victory. I thought the result was fine. Cohen had three mistakes on her jumping passes (her Lutz and her flip were two of her hardest ones in the LP,  too), her opening two passes, and then on her sequence, while showing better spins, spirals, and programs. In comparison, Arakawa landed harder passes (including two lutzes and a three jump combo), and showed much stronger skating skills, and only a slightly worse spiral sequence (but definitely worse spins and programs). Should have been close, but was fine, for me anyway.

Edited February 23, 2020 by displayname

[SeanC]

With Cohen having two falls and Arakawa being clean, albeit with one pop, it shouldn't have been close (nor was it, for that matter; the judges got that right).

Ten years ago today:

Now that was a movie moment (okay, in the movie version she would have somehow beaten Kim Yuna and won gold, but this is as close to the movie as was realistically possible).

[displayname]

11 minutes ago, SeanC said:

With Cohen having two falls and Arakawa being clean, albeit with one pop, it shouldn't have been close (nor was it, for that matter; the judges got that right).

Despite PCS and spins, and there being an entire SP that Cohen outperformed Arakawa in etc? Nah, disagreed.

--------------

Mao and Yuna were amazing in Vancouver! Still my favorite ladies to have ever skated.

Edited February 23, 2020 by displayname

[SeanC]

39 minutes ago, displayname said:

Despite PCS and spins, and there being an entire SP that Cohen outperformed Arakawa in etc? Nah, disagreed.

Arakawa deserved (and received) higher PCS than Cohen in the free skate.  Arakawa getting only 0.07 higher in performance execution, especially, was highway robbery given how messy Cohen was.

Even if Cohen did have somewhat better spins, that wouldn't make up for even one of the jumps that she botched or the overall effect on the program.

Arakawa's TES was seven points above Cohen's.

Edited February 23, 2020 by SeanC

[NUguy514]

10 hours ago, SeanC said:

Arakawa deserved (and received) higher PCS than Cohen in the free skate.  Arakawa getting only 0.07 higher in performance execution, especially, was highway robbery given how messy Cohen was.

Even if Cohen did have somewhat better spins, that wouldn't make up for even one of the jumps that she botched or the overall effect on the program.

Arakawa's TES was seven points above Cohen's.

Yeah, no way did that Sasha LP deserve to win over that Shizuka LP in Turin.  No way.  And her SP wasn't that much better than Shizuka's either.

[Harry24]

I didn't follow the 2006 competition very closely, but your discussion prompted me to take a look.  I have to say for me the SP was a close call between Arakawa and Cohen.  I thought Arakawa's far superior flow, power over the ice, use of the blade, and much bigger jumps broke the tie.  Cohen had a much more charming program, more musicality, more choreographic detail, and incredibly beautiful posture and positions throughout.  (She also won big time on her stunning costume, whereas SA's was an awkward, fugly mess - a shame on such a beautiful woman.)  While Arakawa definitely was behind Cohen on all those points, however, she was still pretty darn good. 

I'm surprised anyone would think the LP was close.  Once again, SA dominated on flow, ice coverage, and size of jumps.  She was also without an unsightly error, and had two lutzes.  Her spins and program were both very good.  Cohen had a lovely program (although not as good as her SP IMO) and the usual lovely posture and spin positions, but her spins before the final one were weaker than usual and she was hesitant throughout.  I thought she displayed admirable fight in not letting the first two big errors just destroy the program.  She skated without significant error after that, which was impressive.  I'm glad she got the silver medal and hope she can feel proud of it.

Arakawa was the obvious winner in my eyes, though.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Harry24

[HartofDixie]

On 2/21/2020 at 6:08 PM, Mellowyellow said:

With Sochi do you think there would have been as much scandal if Julia had skated her individual programs like she did in the team event and beat Yuna?

I probably would have found it easier to swallow because I thought she packed a punch as the girl in the red dress and was so memorable. Plus her flexibility was amazing.

The girl who won was terrible. All I can remember is that she chopped her way around the ice with very jerky movements. 

ETA: Anyone know why Nathan melted down at the Olympics? I only followed him post Olympics where he is as solid as a rock (lordy I hope that comment doesn't come back to bite me) and can't think of him as the meltdown type so it was very bizzare.

This video breaks it down.

 

[Mellowyellow]

Oh Sochi. That was still painful and I was never a die hard Yuna fan.

I rewatched Yuna's performance though and it was so inspiring it makes me wonder if Rika can have a go at two Olympics. A girl can dream!

I did hear that Yuna's body was pretty wrecked at Sochi so don't know if Rika will last physically for another 6 years.

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I rewatched Yuna's performance though and it was so inspiring it makes me wonder if Rika can have a go at two Olympics. A girl can dream!

I did hear that Yuna's body was pretty wrecked at Sochi so don't know if Rika will last physically for another 6 years.

Going to two Olympics is not that unusual.  There's no reason to think Kihira couldn't do two, she'd only be 23 in 2026, which is only a year older than, say, Kaetlyn Osmond was in 2018.

[displayname]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I did hear that Yuna's body was pretty wrecked at Sochi

I don't know what you mean by this? But she did accumulate back injuries through her career, and also the reason she skipped that season's grand prix was because she hurt herself because of a lutz gone wrong. The parallels with Hanyu during the PyeongChang season are freaky, especially if you consider they both should have won.

About Koola's video. She did try to spin it off as some grand Russian scheme. But she doesn't take into consideration about what the components and GOE "should" have been for the performances at Sochi, instead merely showing the changes across that season's competitions, and calling the final result unfair due to this inflation. Sotnikova was someone who had zero reputation at the beginning of that season, so it's reasonable to consider that she might have been underscored then. Plus, she actually did kill it at the Olympics in terms of performance, even if not as much as the small gaps suggest. Her jumps were HUGE, the 3F, 3Lo, and the 2A+3T especially were amazing. Her spins were better than Yuna's. She just shouldn't have beaten Yuna, which mostly happened through unfair tech calls. Call Sotnikova's flutz, call her +3T<, call her step sequence as the level 2 it was, give her a 2 point gap on PCS in the LP to account for Yuna's better polish and skating skill (and the step sequence 3 in the SP, along with a slightly larger gap in PCS there too), and there you have it.

  

5 hours ago, Harry24 said:

I'm surprised anyone would think the LP was close.

I don't think the LP was too close, but certainly Sasha did outskate Shizuka on some aspects like spins, having a slightly better spiral, and showing much better choreography than Shizuka discounting the first 30 seconds (and I disagree that Shizuka deserved higher PCS even if she did receive it. Higher SS and TR scores, yes, but not all of the components, and personally don't think the gap should have been in her favour). And I do think Sasha deserved a bigger gap in the SP. So overall, the 1-2 is fine, but the gap should be pretty small.

Edited February 24, 2020 by displayname

[Mellowyellow]

20 minutes ago, displayname said:

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I did hear that Yuna's body was pretty wrecked at Sochi

I don't know what you mean by this? But she did accumulate back injuries through her career, and also the reason she skipped that season's grand prix was because she hurt herself because of a lutz gone wrong. The parallels with Hanyu during the PyeongChang season are freaky, especially if you consider they both should have won.

I meant she'd accumulated a fair amount of injuries and wear and tear by that stage (age).

I assume Rika with all her triple axels and 4S attempts will be pretty smashed by 2026 as well. I really hope she makes it but I do wonder if realistically anyone can jump like that for another 6 years straight.

[displayname]

20 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I really hope she makes it but I do wonder if realistically anyone can jump like that for another 6 years straight.

Yes, it's really a new consideration. I don't know if we'll be seeing the current crop of men for much longer either.

ETA: I actually think a better consideration is Mao. She did get to two Olympics with a 3A, but she didn't constantly try for 8 triple LPs until the 2012-2013 season IIRC. And after her comeback in 2015, it was clear she was broken down in terms of physicality. Rika's two 3As and 4S attempts... I hope she can do it, but I'm not sure. It's much more of a beating than what we've seen before.

Edited February 24, 2020 by displayname

[doodlebug]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 8:02 AM, specialj67 said:

Re: Nathan Chen at the 2018 Olympics, the U.S. media hype around him leading up to those games was intense (for U.S. figure skating). He was heading there undefeated for the season and viewed as a realistic contender for gold, since Hanyu had an injury and was still a bit of a question mark as to whether he would be back at full force. I can’t imagine the kind of mindfuck all of that external, and internal, pressure could create. IIRC, Chen had some LP issues all that season, and was constantly changing some of the jumps around. He depended on the SP more than once to give him enough of a cushion to still win, even when his LPs were less than great. Looking back on it now, those terrible skates at the Olympics seemed inevitable. He was so young and was probably putting an immense amount of pressure on himself, in addition to all of the external pressure/expectations.

The pre-Olympic hype for Nathan included NBC's commercials for the games which included footage of an 8 year old Nathan at a skating competition telling a reporter that he planned to win the Gold in 2018.  So, Nathan was under pressure from his childhood self to make the dream come true and NBC's announcers plugged it and reminded him of it constantly.

Also, there were rumors that Nathan's family and his coaches were in disagreement over his programs.  As noted, he had been having some problems with the program and performing the jumps cleanly.  His family insisted that he attempt every single quad, to set the record for the Olympics; as a culmination of the years of hard work and sacrifice.  His coach, feeling that he was already feeling the pressure and didn't need to set the record; advised a more conservative approach including cutting back on the quads in favor of skating cleanly.  Ultimately, Nathan went with his parents' plan and simply couldn't meet the expectations.  I cannot imagine the amount of pressure he was under.

Edited February 25, 2020 by doodlebug

[annzeepark914]

Geez...I can't imagine pressuring my kid to try to create an Olympic record when just *getting* to the O's is an amazing feat. I'm glad Nathan is at a college on the east coast, learning to be on his own. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Anyone know why Nathan melted down at the Olympics? 

Nathan fell apart in the short program. From what I can recall, his coach said that at the last minute he decided to do the quad Lutz instead of quad flip because he felt he needed the extra points. This was the point of contention between the family and the coach, I think, or at least that's what I interpreted from the coach's remarks after the fact. Nathan fell on the 4L and then fell on the next jump and on the triple axel which has always been his nemesis. Falling on all three jumps put him so far back he was basically out of contention at that point. But he rallied in the long program and skated so well I think he wound up fifth? Somewhere in the top 6 anyway.

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, he won the LP and ended up 5th.

[TwoBitUsherette]

Jessica Calalang and Brian Johnson are going to Worlds!

Chris Knierim retiring effective immediately. Alexa hopes to find a new parter with her goal being to make it back to the Olympics.

Can't say this is a surprise, he's seemed so over it this season. Sounds like he's been battling depression, so I'm glad he made the decision to step back.

[Jeddah]

6 minutes ago, TwoBitUsherette said:

Jessica Calalang and Brian Johnson are going to Worlds!

Chris Knierim retiring effective immediately. Alexa hopes to find a new parter with her goal being to make it back to the Olympics.

Can't say this is a surprise, he's seemed so over it this season. Sounds like he's been battling depression, so I'm glad he made the decision to step back.

Whoa! I didn’t see that coming! I hope he’s okay. I wonder if she’ll find a partner.

[SeanC]

This has been a day for pairs retirements news:

- the Australian pair of Alexandrovskaya/Windsor announced that Katia is retiring due to the injuries that have caused them to miss virtually the whole season.  Harley has said he intends to find a new partner and continue; no doubt there'll be a queue of pair girls from Russia and North America looking to get that sweet, sweet Olympics ticket (though given the tight timeline, maybe not this Olympics).

- per coach Nina Mozer, it sounds like 2019 World bronze medalists Zabiiako/Enbert are also ending their career, as Enbert hasn't been able to regain competitive form after missing this season due to health problems.

[annzeepark914]

Well they didn't exactly tell a lie when they dropped out of 4 CC. There *was* an illness in the family, but it was Chris himself who wasn't well. Sounds like he was in a bad way even before Nationals

 

[Sew Sumi]

Chris has been checked out for a while. He finally gave up during the botched pairs spin at 4CC. 

I wish him the best. Depression is a bitch. And good luck to Alexa in finding a new partner. Maybe Nate Bartholomay? 

[annzeepark914]

7 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

And good luck to Alexa in finding a new partner. Maybe Nate Bartholomay? 

Good suggestion. I've always enjoyed Nate's skating & programs no matter who his partner was. He needs an experienced partner & Alexa is a pairs champ, ready for a new partner.

[HartofDixie]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Chris has been checked out for a while. He finally gave up during the botched pairs spin at 4CC. 

I wish him the best. Depression is a bitch. And good luck to Alexa in finding a new partner. Maybe Nate Bartholomay? 

Did he retire? I wouldn’t mind seeing her team up with Danny O’Shea.

[annzeepark914]

23 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Did he retire? I wouldn’t mind seeing her team up with Danny O’Shea.

Yes.  He said he's going to help coach (along with Meno/Sands) and also work on cars which he enjoys doing.

[Avaleigh]

I'm a big Sasha fan but Shizuka Arakawa won fair and square. I don't think Sasha ever put two clean programs together and it was such shame because if she'd ever been "on" she was easily the best there was for a six year period.

Regarding Tara and Michelle at Nagano, I agree that if the skating order had been different that Michelle would have won. That being said, Tara brought a joy and excitement that made people willing to overlook her bad technique. If Michelle had skated the way that she skated at Nationals it might have been a different story. Unfortunately that particular performance seemed overly cautious and watered down. 

Lillehammer and Sochi are at the top of my 'the judges got it wrong' list wrt the ladies. Adelina winning over Yuna was bullshit and I'm not even the biggest Yuna fan and usually preferred Mao. 

Nancy did a clean triple/triple and her lutz was late in the program. She also didn't wear an embarrassingly fugly dress. Oksana did a shaky double axel double toe on top of all the two footing. I don't get how it was even close.

Regarding 2010, I thought Mirai should have been third. Her program seemed like it was overlooked because of things that were happening off the ice.

And while I'm being controversial, I'll admit that I would have put Sasha in third in 2002.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Avaleigh

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

Regarding 2010, I thought Mirai should have been third. Her program seemed like it was overlooked because of things that were happening off the ice.

I would say Joannie deserved to be well ahead of Mirai on components, so I don't agree there.

Mirai did win the TES versus Joannie in the free skate, but even if you kept the components closer, Joannie's short program versus Mirai's was more than enough to keep her in third overall.

[displayname]

7 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Regarding 2010, I thought Mirai should have been third.

And while I'm being controversial, I'll admit that I would have put Sasha in third in 2002.

Yes, I agree.

I also thought that 2002 should have been a clean American sweep: Sarah, Michelle, Sasha.

[displayname]

Apparently, Carolina Kostner wants to participate in the Milan 2026 Olympics. https://www.sportfair.it/2020/02/pattinaggio-carolina-kostner-olimpiadi-cortina-2026/1012174/

[ChicksDigScars]

10 hours ago, displayname said:

Apparently, Carolina Kostner wants to participate in the Milan 2026 Olympics. https://www.sportfair.it/2020/02/pattinaggio-carolina-kostner-olimpiadi-cortina-2026/1012174/

And she'll be how old, then? 39? Eteri will have skaters going against her that are young enough to be her children. 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by ChicksDigScars

[HartofDixie]

 

[displayname]

19 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

And she'll be how old, then? 39? Eteri will have skaters going against her that are young enough to be her children. 

 

 

There'll also be some college-aged women, who could also be her daughters! Practically everyone there would be young enough to be her daughter. And I kind of want their would-be mother to beat them all, partly because it'd be hilarious if she did it with a 3-2, and partly to show just how broken the system is with some "artists" like her.

[HartofDixie]

Junior Worlds this week and you can watch on the Skating ISU you tube page.

Pairs short

Pairs Free

Rhythm Dance 

 

[HartofDixie]

Ladies short

 

[HartofDixie]

Free Dance

Ladies Free

 

[Avaleigh]

I really like Kamila and Daria. It'll be very interesting to see how they stack up against the A girls in the next couple of years. I think Kamila and Daria are already both stronger than Sasha Trusova. 

I'm happy that Alysa was able to come away with a medal. I want her to work on her speed and next season I'd like to see her team choose music for her free skate that's a little more memorable. 

I was happy to see Starr put in a nice skate. I thought that the Salome program worked well for her. Hopefully she'll be able to improve her technical content and skating skills over the next couple of seasons. 

It was my first time seeing Haein Lee and there's nice potential there. Looking forward to seeing more. 

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

It was my first time seeing Haein Lee and there's nice potential there. Looking forward to seeing more. 

This is the free program skated to perfection when she won gold at JGP Croatia earlier in the season.  Kind of devastated that she couldn't do that here.

Alison Schumacher improbably saved Canada's second Junior ladies spot (that she earned last season), with an assist from the Japanese ladies both having total meltdowns.

[Mellowyellow]

Alsya should have gotten the silver imo.

I find Daria's overwrought skating very bland.

Kamila is sublime and is the right age for Olympic gold if she stays healthy. She can make any rubbish choreography look good. Would love to see her with better choreography. The things she could do!

[displayname]

Usacheva and Kromykh show a more musical quality than Valieva even if less assured than her.

The Korean girls Wi and Lee were the best in that regard, for me. They are already immersing themselves better in the music than a lot of the senior girls. Kawabata and Kawabe have amazing skating skills, but did have less-than-impressive skates here, unfortunately. Liu has an unaffected joy to her, but does need more work on her basics.

I'm also duly impressed by Mozalev of the men. His step sequence had a very good quality for a junior man - edging and musicality both present - and he is a strong jumper with decent spins.

Edited March 8, 2020 by displayname

[healthnut]

They’ve cancelled Worlds. It’s not surprising but still sucks. I feel bad for Chock/Bates who had a lot of momentum and a great chance to medal and the US ladies who had a chance to get three spots next year. 

[Jeddah]

4 minutes ago, healthnut said:

They’ve cancelled Worlds. It’s not surprising but still sucks. I feel bad for Chock/Bates who had a lot of momentum and a great chance to medal and the US ladies who had a chance to get three spots next year. 

I’m disappointed, but I think they had to cancel. It’s not worth the risk.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm upset for the athletes who worked so hard to earn a spot at Worlds. In skating, there are no guarantees that you'll be back next year. 

But I agree with the decision. Too many people coming in from highly affected areas like all the Fanyus from Japan. 

[redpencil]

Why don't they do it without fans like tons of other sporting events are doing? The NCAA Tourney just announced that's what they're doing (granted, that's 10 times bigger of a tv event in the US than figure skating). How will they determine spots for next year? Just keep it the same? That doesn't seem right (for cases where a country could potentially have gotten an extra spot, like US Ladies). What about those skaters who may not ever be selected for another worlds? I feel terribly for them.

[healthnut]

I agree @redpencil but they don’t want athletes traveling either.

”a lot of people coming from different countries, it’s an indoor space, there’s 1000s of people, there has just been pandemic declared in the world so we think it’s best scenario to protect population.” Quebec health minister McCann

”2020 [championships] could be held later in the year but in any case not before October 2020” from press release

Edited March 11, 2020 by healthnut

[Sew Sumi]

October is the start of Grand Prix season and some early Challengers are already done.. Will skaters have to keep this year's programs rather than train two programs so deep into next season? What about ice dancers training two rhythm dancers?

[TwoBitUsherette]

I don't understand how they could even consider holding Worlds as late as October. Logistically it just doesn't make sense given the Grand Prix series. But if they're intent on having it, I feel like the only thing they could possibly consider doing is holding it behind closed doors later this spring. Even then... I just can't see it working.

My heart goes out to all the skaters who worked so hard to get there 💔. What a disappointing end to everyone's season.