Figure Skating

[Darknight]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:00 PM, Growsonwalls said:

AFAIK Kostornaia is planning on putting back the triple axel. Think she's injured. She has great skating skills, but agree that her programs are meh this year. Her programs last year worked better. 

She is apparently dating Sergei Rozanov? She's a little ... young for him. 

Dating Sergei? She's 17 and he's in his 30s? I hope it's not true. 

 

Alena said she is working on it but she has back issues and looks like she is going through puberty. She's also old for a Russian lady. She's 17. Her programs are a mess. She can do so much better with better programs and music.

[Darknight]

On 11/14/2020 at 11:05 AM, Avaleigh said:

With Trusova, I thought I saw a *little* improvement in the short program but I basically agree with you. It seems like she only puts the work in on the jumps and even the jumps aren't super consistent. (I can't recall her ever skating a clean long as a senior.) Still, in a sport where you can fall twice and easily win as Trusova just did, I suppose it's ultimately worth it to try as many quads as possible. Even her spins are subpar compared to most of her competitors, but it doesn't matter because she can usually hit at least two quads. 

With Kostornaia, I think it's obvious that her skating skills are far better than most of the other Russian ladies. (Anna, Darya, Aliona, and Kamila are probably the best Russia has in terms of artistry.) I agree though that she really needs that triple axel to stay at or near the head of the pack. I think the other problem that's making her seem less special this year is that her programs aren't really jelling. Both programs feel uninspired and the overall energy is lacking. She also seemed a little unsteady and there were multiple points in both the short and long where she seemed off her game e.g. the struggle with the Biellmann.

I read somewhere that Kamila was supposed to be a bird in one program and a snake in the other. Not sure what the deal is but I agree that the dresses are odd.

Even though I know it's a looong shot, there is still part of me that's really rooting for Elizaveta to make that Olympic team. I feel like she has more of a chance than Evgenia and it would be nice if one of the "older" ladies could show the younger ones that they've still got it. 

I wish they would work on the 3a and one quad with Trusova. She has never landed a 3,4,5 quad program in competition. She also needs to work on other things. I'm surprised Anna and Alena were so close to her last year when she had quads. She can't win without jumps and other skaters with both tech and SS will out perform her. Other skaters are actually catching up to her. If she refuses to work on anything else I fear she's going to get injured and/or fall behind. I think the brownie points she got in juniors and seniors is starting  to fade. It's like you can jump, fall, jump what else do you have? Her skating is choppy. Her programs don't fit her and look like a jump competition. It's also not good for her body to do that many quads. Even men don't do a 4,5 quad program with the exceptions of Hanyu and Chen. It's sad to see so many top skaters lack the very basics. 

 

Alena needs better programs and I don't understand Shae Lynn this year. Her choreography this year is lacking. I hears she's injured 

 

Kamilla programs were better last year. Give her old programs Eteri. 

 

Poor Liza. I wish she would be on the team but sadly RFS is behind their next big crop of seniors. I can't see Liza at Worlds or the Olympics. Even with a quad. She has amazing jumps with proper technique but isn't rewarded for it. Kamilla, Daria, and Anna are locks in my opinion. Maybe Alena and Trusova can challenge that third spot but sadly RFS isn't behind Liza. Even if she gets a quad or two. They love their pre puberty jumping beans. Alena is 17 and is old for a Russian lady. Liza is a great grandma. Medvedeva is a grandma. Alina retired at 17. Yulia retired at 17 too right? 16/17 seems to your peak in Russia. It's sad. 

[Darknight]

13 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

How did Alysa Liu look? I've heard she's having jump problems.

She is looking rough. The jumps aren't there. The skating skills have a long way to go. USAFS should be ashamed of themselves for ignoring her technique and using her to show Russia and Japan he have a 13 year old and 14 year old doing quads and 3A. They shot themselves in the foot. She currently has no technique coach for jumps. I don't know what her father was thinking. We never learn our lesson do we? Gracie Gold anyone? Nathan Chen? Caroline Zhang? Come on USAFS. 

[Growsonwalls]

3 hours ago, Darknight said:

She is looking rough. The jumps aren't there. The skating skills have a long way to go. USAFS should be ashamed of themselves for ignoring her technique and using her to show Russia and Japan he have a 13 year old and 14 year old doing quads and 3A. They shot themselves in the foot. She currently has no technique coach for jumps. I don't know what her father was thinking. We never learn our lesson do we? Gracie Gold anyone? Nathan Chen? Caroline Zhang? Come on USAFS. 

Nathan Chen is not really a good example of this. He has had some longevity in a sport known for short careers.

[Jeddah]

8 hours ago, Darknight said:

We never learn our lesson do we? Gracie Gold anyone? Nathan Chen? Caroline Zhang? Come on USAFS. 

I only remember hearing about Gracie when she was a senior. Was there a huge amount of pressure on her when she was a junior? Maybe I just missed it.

As for Caroline Zhang, she seems to be well adjusted and happy. She was still skating at Nationals well into her twenties. Sure, she never won the Olympics, but it’s not like skating ruined her life. I bet she’s proud of her accomplishments as a junior skater.

And I definitely don’t see how you can put Nathan in this category. He has 100% lived up to the hype. I think he choked at the Olympics because of the pressure he put on himself, not pressure from USFS. He’s had an incredible career already, and he is still going.

There are skaters who appear on the scene very young, and do have long careers. Michelle Kwan won silver at Nationals at age 13, and it didn’t seem to hurt career at all. Mirai won at 14, and then nailed a triple axel at the Olympics at age 24.

We don’t know what will happen to Alysa, but it seems way too early to decide USFS has ruined her forever.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Jeddah

[Growsonwalls]

Nathan Chen is actually an example of someone who IMO defied the early experts. He's improved his consistency, presentation, and troublesome jumps (the triple axel). He sort of reminds me of Plushenko in his consistency and you could say somewhat limited artistry. 

One thing I think is interesting is why men seem to be able to sustain longer careers than women. Is the training that different? Is there more tolerance for different body types? 

[Darknight]

Can I just mentioned how shitty the judges are. Imagine being a skater with good technical skills and Skating skills. Then you see the skaters who have not so good or terrible SS and tech get high scores than you. So the judges are saying skaters don't have to work on having the proper technique or SS. As long as you don't fall. So why bother with SS or proper tech when the skaters with bad tech and ss will still be rewarded. This goes for men and women. 

[Darknight]

3 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I only remember hearing about Gracie when she was a senior. Was there a huge amount of pressure on her when she was a junior? Maybe I just missed it.

As for Caroline Zhang, she seems to be well adjusted and happy. She was still skating at Nationals well into her twenties. Sure, she never won the Olympics, but it’s not like skating ruined her life. I bet she’s proud of her accomplishments as a junior skater.

And I definitely don’t see how you can put Nathan in this category. He has 100% lived up to the hype. I think he choked at the Olympics because of the pressure he put on himself, not pressure from USFS. He’s had an incredible career already, and he is still going.

There are skaters who appear on the scene very young, and do have long careers. Michelle Kwan won silver at Nationals at age 13, and it didn’t seem to hurt career at all. Mirai won at 14, and then nailed a triple axel at the Olympics at age 24.

We don’t know what will happen to Alysa, but it seems way too early to decide USFS has ruined her forever.

Gold is Gracie's last name. They hyped her up big time. Gracie had everything. The name, looks, skating. She was going to win. She was the next Michelle.  

 

Caroline was the next Michelle and they hyped her up. Even with her issues. 

 

They hyped Nathan up. He choked for a few reasons but the hype they gave him was crazy. He was a first year senior I believe too. Only 18. Just let him skate. The Olympics have enough pressure. Nathan is the exception because he has good tech and has a decent coach. He's blooming and improved a great lot. He will be 22 at his next Olympics. 

 

They're doing the same to Alysa. To me it's  worse. They hyped her up and said look Russia and Japan we have one too. They gave her scores she shouldn't have gotten. Called her the next Olympic gold medalist and now she's struggling. USAFS always does this with one skater. Hype them up, put pressure on them, then toss them aside when they don't do well. The comments I saw about Liu are very sad. I read she left social media because of bullying. I can't blame her. I blame her dad, former coach and USAFS. She was taught a technique that wouldn't last beyond puberty. 

 

USAFS wants an Olympic/World gold medal. It's pride. They want the it girl skater. USA ladies is what people look for. They need it. Instead of looking at themselves they keep making the same mistakes. Right now it looks like Mariah is their new girl. It wouldn't shock me if they hype up Audrey, Isabeu,or Lindsey next if they get a quad or 3A. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Darknight

[Darknight]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Nathan Chen is actually an example of someone who IMO defied the early experts. He's improved his consistency, presentation, and troublesome jumps (the triple axel). He sort of reminds me of Plushenko in his consistency and you could say somewhat limited artistry. 

One thing I think is interesting is why men seem to be able to sustain longer careers than women. Is the training that different? Is there more tolerance for different body types? 

Puberty helps men but doesn't help women. Men and women's bodies are different. Men gain muscle and strength. Coaches actually coach for longativey vs short term at least they should.  For girls it's  a race against puberty. Girls get hips and breasts which slows down their rotation speed. That means coaches have to rebuild or change their technique. That takes time. You have to get use to your new body. What I think coaches should also do is build strength for girls. However, figure skating for ladies especially wants one body type. Not a Simone Biles body type. That's why some coaches like Eteri coach short term. She has a bunch of skaters she can choose from when her older ones go through puberty. She hand picks them. Why waste time on technique on your 16 year old skaters when there's a 12 or 13 year old who can land jumps? 

 

I wish coaches would do what gymnastics coaches are doing now. Juniors in gymnastics can't do certain skills. Coaches many right now are trying to coach for long-term vs short term. Simone is a great example of this. She could've added more to her technique in Rio but worked with what she had. She improved on what she had then added more tech after Rio. In figure skating you have skaters who burn out because they peak too early. Your peak shouldn't be at 13 or 14 or 15. I don't believe anything will change unless the judges stop rewarding it. 

 

 

Look at juniors for example. Most junior boys skaters aren't doing that many quads or at least they shouldn't be. I don't follow juniors that much but there is no reason why a junior skater needs 3,4,5 quads. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Darknight

[Darknight]

9 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Nathan Chen is not really a good example of this. He has had some longevity in a sport known for short careers.

My problem stems more from the USAFS who clearly don't see their mistakes. Especially with their ladies. Nathan has improved leaps. It's more of USAFS putting an insane amount of pressure on a then 18 year old first year senior. Then when he didn't deliver shame him for not delivering. Looking at you Tara and Johnny 

[redpencil]

Nathan was a 2nd year senior when he went to the Olympics (he took silver in the GPF and 6th in the World Championships the season prior to the Olympics). He won all his Grand Prix events (including the GPF) in the Olympic season. The hype surrounding him for the Olympics was definitely crazy, but honestly way, way more deserved than any of the other examples here.

Edited November 17, 2020 by redpencil

[Growsonwalls]

I also don't think what happened with Gracie Gold was the fault of USFSA. 

I actually think how Gracie Gold is an example of poor coaching. She had great technique -- maybe one of the best among the senior ladies. She went to Frank Carroll but he was a poor fit for her -- he definitely isn't the type of coach that deals well with headcases. Her problems went beyond USFSA hype and more into larger figure skating issues -- body image, mental health, self-care (or lack of it). 

[Jeddah]

ETA: I deleted my original comment. It was too gossipy.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Jeddah

[Mellowyellow]

8 hours ago, Jeddah said:

ETA: I deleted my original comment. It was too gossipy.

Darn it I want to know!!!!

Plzzzz tell me!!!!!

[Jeddah]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Darn it I want to know!!!!

Plzzzz tell me!!!!!

I’ll never tell!

No, after I posted it I felt like I was kicking Gracie while she was down.

[Growsonwalls]

It was all over the news. If you search up Carl Gold you'll find the answer.

[SeanC]

Well, Rostelecom ladies turned out to be a very exciting event.

Trusova hasn't missed the podium at anything since 2017 Junior Nationals.

Between two ladies and Kolyada on the podium, it was a very good outing for Team Mishin (other than poor Samodurova).

[KittenPokerCheater]

Did Trusova win?

 

[Avaleigh]

22 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Did Trusova win?

She totally bombed. Four falls plus other errors. I hope Eteri isn't off smirking somewhere. 

I'm so happy for Elizaveta! People always count her out and even though it still is a longshot for her to finally make Olympic team, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. It would be nice to show other female skaters that elite competitive skating doesn't have to end once you're no longer a teenager. 

[emmawoodhouse]

All hail the Empress! 😁

[healthnut]

I thought Kostornaia was still going to win because initially her tech score was almost as high as Elizaveta’s but she had some under rotations and ended up losing about six points.

I feel like two competitions back to back is a lot, so I’ll give Trusova some grace, her triple axel attempt in the short was awful, full downgrade plus a fall so she was third after short program and she was ALMOST third overall, they really overscored her trying to prop her up. 

[Mellowyellow]

I had a giggle at Liza's use of the axel. It was like: I can jump this jump with my eyes shut, I'm going to cram as many versions of it in for as many points as I can.

Good for her!!!! It's what Eteri does so it's nice to see someone else being strategic!

***

Poor Trusova. She can actually jump and doesn't seem to have a growth spurt or lost jumps or anything like that. It's just so weird she has these meltdowns.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Mellowyellow

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Then when he didn't deliver shame him for not delivering. 

Listen, there was NO WAY to excuse that abominable performance and splat fest. No way to sugarcoat it.  Nathan himself admitted he choked. And then he went and blew the field away with his long program.  THAT's how champions do it.

If you want to talk about grace and performance under pressure, consider Uzuru.  Or Yuna Kim.  They have 100x more pressure than probably any US skater.  

Quote

They're doing the same to Alysa. To me it's  worse. They hyped her up and said look Russia and Japan we have one too. They gave her scores she shouldn't have gotten. Called her the next Olympic gold medalist and now she's struggling. 

No one called her the next gold medalist.  They certainly thought she would be able to COMPETE with the Russians and the Japanese.  That's fair.  I also don't think she was overscored.  And she landed her jumps--which certainly has been the problem with a lot of the US ladies, although some like Mariah Bell seem to be coming into their own at just the right time. 

[HartofDixie]

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2020/11/24/daisuke-takahashi-kana-muramoto-ice-dance/

[SeanC]

We haven't seen much of Canadian skaters this season due to SCI being cancelled.  Keegan obviously got to SkAm, which was nice.  They've started holding virtual Sectionals competitions, but most of the top skaters don't attend those.

Ontario Sectionals debuted a couple of new pair teams, both of whom would probably be competing junior if not for the fact that since there are no international junior events this year (confirmed with the cancellation of Junior Worlds) there's no reason to not focus on domestic senior events:

These two have both had a number of previous partners (Daleman, in particular, has changed partners every year for the last few in search of the right fit) and only teamed up a couple of months ago (and he had COVID earlier in the year), but I like what we see so far.  And obviously, great skating genes in both their families.

Brooke's previous partnership ended after the Youth Olympics (he went to focus on university), but she quickly found a new, taller guy.  They've been together a bit longer than Justine & Zachary, so they've had more time to work on the elements (some of their practice clips are more impressive still).

Anyway, good to see things taking shape a bit, since KMT and Marinaro will be packing it in after Beijing.

[honeywest]

Ros telecom was like the Moscow Superspreader Invitational. The coaches who wore masks left their noses uncovered (including the octogenarians Mishin and Moskvina) and took the masks off in the kiss-and-cry (having already hugged and kissed their skaters, who never wore masks at all).

But I’m happy for Liza and Kolyada.

[HartofDixie]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:51 PM, honeywest said:

Ros telecom was like the Moscow Superspreader Invitational. The coaches who wore masks left their noses uncovered (including the octogenarians Mishin and Moskvina) and took the masks off in the kiss-and-cry (having already hugged and kissed their skaters, who never wore masks at all).

But I’m happy for Liza and Kolyada.

They also had a banquet. No masks in sight.

NHK Trophy results

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2021/gpjpn2020/

[Jeddah]

32 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

They also had a banquet. No masks in sight.

NHK Trophy results

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2021/gpjpn2020/

I’m so excited to see Daisuke!

[emmawoodhouse]

I like NHK. I can usually stick around for the first 2 events. I won't last until the men.

[annzeepark914]

18 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

They also had a banquet. No masks in sight.

What is wrong with people--do they subconsciously  have a death wish?

[emmawoodhouse]

Huge, non-socially distanced audience at NHK. I was shocked. 

[AuntieDiane6]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Huge, non-socially distanced audience at NHK. I was shocked

You should be. Japan has had only 10% of the cases the USA has and only 1200 deaths since MARCH. Japan also is hosting the Summer Olympics in July so they cracked down early and severely. Plus, mask wearing is already common in Japan for those who have potentially contagious diseases.

[emmawoodhouse]

Yes, the crowd was all masked up, but knowing how well Japan was doing, I was very surprised to see a full arena. I thought that would undo all the good they were doing there.

Edited November 27, 2020 by emmawoodhouse

[healthnut]

They did have a seat between everyone (which I realize isn’t six feet) and literally everyone had a mask, including coaches. So much better than Russia. 
I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Daisuke and the ladies short program was really strong. The men’s event was a mess. Hope the free skates for them are better. 

[annzeepark914]

Daisuke said he had no idea how hard ice dancing was until he decided to try it.

[emmawoodhouse]

5 hours ago, healthnut said:

They did have a seat between everyone (which I realize isn’t six feet) and literally everyone had a mask, including coaches. So much better than Russia.

There were people sitting next to each other, not distanced at all. Tonight is even worse. The place looks sold out.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

There were people sitting next to each other, not distanced at all. 

Maybe the people sitting next to each other were people who live together.

[SeanC]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

There were people sitting next to each other, not distanced at all. Tonight is even worse. The place looks sold out.

You can sit next to each other if you're part of a pod. What you're seeing are people who bought tickets in group, akin to what happens in movie theatres.

Kaori's previous season was pretty miserable, so this was a refreshing comeback for her.

But also, the judges and tech panel at this event were very obviously in the tank for her.

[ChicksDigScars]

So, the Skating Lesson has posted that Danny O'Shea has reportedly retired. Just seemed like odd timing. Nothing mentioned on O'Shea's Twitter  Instagram, though. 

[annzeepark914]

On 11/28/2020 at 1:12 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

So, the Skating Lesson has posted that Danny O'Shea has reportedly retired. Just seemed like odd timing. Nothing mentioned on O'Shea's Twitter  Instagram, though. 

I looked him up and noticed that they'd just left another coach (right before Skate America) and it was TBD who would be their next coach. They've had a lot of disappointments (she's had a lot of injuries). He'll be 30 soon.  Knierem & Fraser will probably be Nationals champs in January. IDK...maybe he got tired of all that hard work and no top medals??

[healthnut]

Turns out the injury Chock & Bates were dealing with was a concussion for Madison. 
Chock & Bates update

[annzeepark914]

4 hours ago, healthnut said:

Turns out the injury Chock & Bates were dealing with was a concussion for Madison. 
Chock & Bates update

So, something *did* affect their training. That excuse they gave for not entering Skate America (something about how they just needed to train more) IMO, seemed weak, coming from the US champs. I'm so glad Madison is ok, and has been back on the ice. Can't wait to see their new programs.

[SeanC]

50 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

So, something *did* affect their training. That excuse they gave for not entering Skate America (something about how they just needed to train more) IMO, seemed weak, coming from the US champs. I'm so glad Madison is ok, and has been back on the ice. Can't wait to see their new programs.

This wasn’t a secret.  They had previously said they had an injury over the summer (in addition to quarantining after what we now know was Papadakis/Cizeron’s COVID cases).

[annzeepark914]

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

This wasn’t a secret.  They had previously said they had an injury over the summer (in addition to quarantining after what we now know was Papadakis/Cizeron’s COVID cases).

Well, I didn't see it mentioned at any time before, during, or after Skate America. Something like a concussion would've normally been babbled about endlessly during SA.

[HartofDixie]

Russian skaters that tested positive for Covid:

Evegenia Medvedeva

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva

Dmitri Aliev

 Alena Kostornaia

 

[KittenPokerCheater]

They all tested positive today??

Or in general, over the last year?

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

They all tested positive today??

Or in general, over the last year?

Other than Medvedeva, they were all at Rostelecom together two weeks ago and have had positive tests in the past day or two.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Jeddah

[CeeBeeGee]

14 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Other than Medvedeva, they were all at Rostelecom together two weeks ago and have had positive tests in the past day or two.

And that prick Plushenko was wearing his mask under his nose, like the asshole he is. (Cannot stand him.)

[emmawoodhouse]

Nobody wore their masks correctly at Rostelecom, including octogenarians Mishin and Moskvina.

[SeanC]

Valieva just did a triple Axel with a Rippon feature at the Russian Cup.  Had to step out of it, but it's on its way.