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Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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JayKay

JayKay

Sounds like a chicken and egg level quandry.

I don't think that KC is threatening to sick lawyers on the producers. I think it's the opposite. She has friends within the network - that's why she keeps booking CW gigs. These people are higher up the food chain than the EPs. She has a longer history with them and they will fight for her. Someone asked Stephen Amell last year about it on a livestream and he said that he doesn't see anything wrong with the network hiring you to work on different shows if they like you and like your work.

So even if I don't like it, I don't believe there's any nefarious design behind KC becoming BC. That's the business.

poetgirl925

poetgirl925

I sometimes wonder if it's the fact that Laurel isn't working...or that people who dislike her refuse to accept anything about her.

To be painfully honest, the fact that so many people, viewers and critics alike, refuse to accept this character is proof she isn't working. And I went into this series expecting to like her. Trust me, no one was more disappointed than me by the direction in which they chose to take Laurel Lance. Regardless of what the EPs say or tweet, or what comes out in interviews, they made a series of stupid decisions with this character. That's on them - not the viewers reacting to it.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I actually think it's both -- Laurel doesn't work AND people dislike her. Figuring out which came first is probably impossible, but the fact is, it continues to snowball as the show goes on. Because it's already turned into resentment that the narrative continues to try different things with the character, when everyone's already in the mindset that 1. it's not working and 2. ugh, Laurel, go away.

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wingster55

wingster55

Someone asked Stephen Amell last year about it on a livestream and he said that he doesn't see anything wrong with the network hiring you to work on different shows if they like you and like your work.

 

Stephen may have been referring to himself. I don't entirely believe it but even just recently he pointed to his stint on TVD as a gate for him getting Arrow. 

JayKay

JayKay

Stephen may have been referring to himself. I don't entirely believe it but even just recently he pointed to his stint on TVD as a gate for him getting Arrow.

He answered generally, so I imagine that he was referring to any actor with a relationship with a network. Just like with any job, it's not what you know, it's who you know in showbiz.
quarks

quarks

For what it's worth, though I'm obviously not a fan of Laurel, I have liked the character in more than one episode. I thought she was fine in Calm, for instance. Now, if the show can only stop having her do things like rush out to kill people without checking to see if the gun is loaded or if she's shooting the correct person....

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I actually think it's both -- Laurel doesn't work AND people dislike her. Figuring out which came first is probably impossible, but the fact is, it continues to snowball as the show goes on. Because it's already turned into resentment that the narrative continues to try different things with the character, when everyone's already in the mindset that 1. it's not working and 2. ugh, Laurel, go away.

it's pretty obvious who came first: it's the writing (partly) and KC acting (mostly) that have caused the audience to dislike her.

for me the major problem is KC- she is a bad fit for this character, she doesn't have it in her to play the wide range of emotions.

I don't know why she was replaced on Supernatural, but maybe the fact that she was replaced after only one season should be an indication how little the EP's may have thought of her acting and fought to keep her. when you want an actor to stay you would do anything in your power to make it happen. including shelling them with a nice money offer.

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poetgirl925

poetgirl925

For what it's worth, though I'm obviously not a fan of Laurel, I have liked the character in more than one episode. I thought she was fine in Calm, for instance. Now, if the show can only stop having her do things like rush out to kill people without checking to see if the gun is loaded or if she's shooting the correct person....

I can agree with this. I also think a lot of my resentment stems from constant disappointment in the character. More than once I've imagined (or read others' thoughts) on directions for Laurel's character I might actually be interested in, and then crap happens instead. (Hello season 2's BitterSadAngryKindaAlcoholic Laurel with a penchant for blackmail.) Critics are seeing the same things many of us are, so it's stemming from actual problems existing within the show as opposed to viewers just being determined to hate her no matter what.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

For what it's worth, though I'm obviously not a fan of Laurel, I have liked the character in more than one episode. I thought she was fine in Calm, for instance. Now, if the show can only stop having her do things like rush out to kill people without checking to see if the gun is loaded or if she's shooting the correct person....

This is me as well. I've never hated the character nor the actress and I've even liked a handful of her scenes (e.g. the Canary name scene with Sara from last season's finale) but her scenes and characterization run so hot and cold that I'm often left not knowing what to think of her and the confusion turns to apathy. I'm not the least bit invested in her plight because just when I find some level of sympathy she goes and does something asinine (like the irresponsible gun spree).

wonderwall

wonderwall

So this might be a dumb question but: why is Caity Lotz still doing promo for Arrow?

 

https://twitter.com/dallascomiccon/status/523523925876424704

She gets paid to do cons. And also because she's amazing and humble and just so classy. It's weird. I came in loving KC, now I love everyone on the show except for her. Caity Lotz included. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

It's her big show and doing cons puts her out there for other jobs. As well Sara/Caity Lotz will be back in flashbacks.so I imagine the EPs want her promoting her appearances on Arrow still.

 

Stephen Amell did a lot more work with CBC, HBO and ABC than he did with CW in TVD.

 

replying to the rest on the Slings and Arrow thread

statsgirl

statsgirl

From the media thread

I sometimes wonder if it's the fact that Laurel isn't working...or that people who dislike her refuse to accept anything about her. 

 

I think at this point, a lot of it is 'Oh for fuck's sake' exasperation.  I hadn't seen KC in anything before I started watching Arrow and she lost me in the first two episodes.  As I said elsewhere, I got my best friend into watching the show. She phoned me yesterday and said she was done, the scene with Laurel and Oliver on the stairs did her in, because she wasn't going to stick around to see more of KC's acting.

 

The pity is, if the EPs could take off their blinkers and write her right. KC;s Laurel could work as a character.  I've never liked her so much as I did in The Calm and if they could have kept that up for the first part of this season while people grew to like her more, and put Sara's flashbacks in there while she was still alive, it would have worked so much better and maybe Sara's death would have been poignant instead of infuriating.  Or if they made Laurel Vengeance Canary or Blackmail Canary instead of asking us to see her as a good-doer because that's not where KC's acting ability is.

 

But the EPs have totally screwed up in hiring KC/writing Laurel/killing Sara for Laurel when she isn't ready.

@pootlus said something in the Bitterness Thread that I thought was both delightful and sad: fandom is having to fanwank real life to try and understand why this happening. Hence the theory that KC's contract says Laurel has to be Black Canary or else LITIGATION NATION! So fans are trying to find an out for the EPs, because it. doesn't. make. logical. sense. that they keep rebooting the one character that doesn't work -- per audience rejection and professional criticism alike -- so the most logical reason would be that they have to do it.

 

I'm not sure I completely buy that because I can also buy it that it's related to Kreisberg and Guggenheim's ego and them wanting to stick to their original plan. Also, their COMICS! background. But I surely get why so many fans are now convinced it's KC's contract.

 

 

There's one more thing about the positive pro criticism that I find interesting: Arrow is pretty much the first superhero show to get continuous praise from pro critics, and not just the longtime comic book fans like Sepinwall, or geeky sites like IGN and io9. More than the golden age of TV, this is the golden age of TV criticism, and Arrow is a low-brow pop culture superhero geek property that is reaching above niche critique. So the show getting all the praise is relevant both to the show and the genre culture as a whole.

 

And I think the EPs and Amell realize that it's bigger than Arrow, because they bring up over and over the Time magazine article, and also that Arrow is the first of the wave of superhero shows. So the criticism matters to them. The problem is they're apparently only absorbing the praise parts of critique, which is missing the point of, you know, accepting criticism.

I'm not surprised that AK and MG are sticking to their original conception of KC/Laurel as the Black Canary because they do come from the comics and sometimes it feels like they are little boys still (fishnet stockings!).  But I'm surprised Greg Berlanti isn't listening. He's had a lot more experience on TV then they have.  I'm sure KC is very connected to the Hollywood money people but surely by this point Berlanti has some influence of his own too.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

I'm sure KC is very connected to the Hollywood money people

 

I go back and forth on this point.  David Cassidy had those connections back in the day but even his big moment in the spotlight (the Partridge Family and I Think I Love You) happened forty years ago.  He's been unable to replicate that success since then and I think that his connections (via his family) are the only reason he still gets guest roles on tv from time to time.  I would say that Katie's been taking advantage of those same connections but she's given interviews (back in the Ruby days when she was first noticed) where she talks about how her mom and step dad raised her and David acted more like a fun uncle who showed up every so often.  I'm inclined to think that she's actually unable to take advantage of those connections David has, as they only get him guest spots not leading roles, because she's been unable to get any success outside of the CW. 

 

I'm more willing to buy that those connections may have resulted in tight contracts for the roles she does receive, hence my next question: is there any way the general public can access actor contracts?  I'm sure the answer is no, barring a move under the Freedom of Information Act, but I'm always fascinated by what actually goes into those things.  I'd love to see the details of the Friends actors' contracts, for example, that came with their $1 million per episode deal and I'd like to see if Katie's reps really did put something in that says the CW will be in breach if she doesn't become Black Canary or if she was given a general contract with the option for renewal when it expires.  It would certainly put to rest all of our speculations on who is really behind the recent shifts on the show.

statsgirl

statsgirl

I was thinking more of Jack Cassidy and Shirley Jones' connections. Granted those were a long time ago but Shirley Jones was a superstar in her day and she is still doing the occasional interview.  She'd would know the best lawyers and the big connections in Hollywood, and how to get the best contract for yourself.

 

I guess we're all just trying to understand it.

JenMcSnark

JenMcSnark

I sometimes wonder if it's the fact that Laurel isn't working...or that people who dislike her refuse to accept anything about her. 

I think this is a fair question.  For me, I didn't know diddily shit about KC, Laurel, or the Green Arrow.  I like superhero things without having read all the comics so that's why I started watching.  I actually didn't know anything about not even one of the cast.  

 

Laurel bugged me from the get go.  And at first, I didn't even really associate it with KC.  I mean, I did think she was not a good actor, but it's the CW after all.  I didn't really expect good acting since the only thing I had ever watched on CW is TVD.  (And no, I didn't even recognize Stephen from that.  My daughter pointed it out and I had to go back and watch the eps for it to make a connection.)

 

So for me, the character itself just doesn't work and they are completely clueless on how to fix this.  This is what really pisses me off about this show.  I felt that KC & Laurel reached levels of ridiculousness in S2 that made me start to actively dislike both.  Now, I think KC has had some better scenes/acting choices, but the character of Laurel and the way she is being forced into everything is just completely infuriating to me.

 

I certainly hope that if I ever see KC in anything else I won't hold Laurel against her.  But I think it's so bad now after two years that I just might.  And that's sad.  The writers & KC's interviews, etc., have not helped her out either.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

he isnt big fan of twitter. I dont think he will completely let go since he is probably required to have it for live-tweeting. But i think he enjoys facebook more.

 

But then he sometimes has those moments when he deletes his accounts and goes on hiatus from social media. Sometimes he is a little drama queen.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

What could've endeared me to Cassidy is, if she had something about Sara's death, like  - I know I have some big shoes to fill, I hope I can make my tv sister proud.

 

 Instead she says stuff like this #TheRiseOfLaruelLance and barely mentions Sara in interviews unless it's just to say how her death is how Laurel is motivated this season. 

 

At this point I do think that Sara died so they can fulfill Cassidy's contract. She was hired to play the Black Canary, they don't want to have to pay her lots of money to get out of it. 

 

Taking the rest to the Laurel thread. 

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Guest

Guest

What could've endeared me to Cassidy is, if she had something about Sara's death, like  - I know I have some big shoes to fill, I hope I can make my tv sister proud.

 

 Instead she says stuff like this #TheRiseOfLaruelLance and barely mentions Sara in interviews unless it's just to say how her death is how Laurel is motivated this season. 

 

Exactly. A little respect goes a long way. 

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

While it doesn't earn her any points (IMO), I can't majorly fault her for it when MG is doing the same thing in interviews. In one postmortem he joked about CL playing a great body in 302.

The whole tone for Sara/CLs departure is just very off, they never treated Tommy or Moira or Shado (or their actors) so callously in interviews post death.

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Meredith Quill

Meredith Quill

If your post is predominantly about Laurel the character or KC the actress even if the thoughts were prompted by a tweet etc, it belongs in the Laurel thread. As some others have done (thank you), feel free to leave a post quoting the tweet or FB post with a "Taking this to the Laurel Topic" message.
 
Not doing this means YOU HAVE FAILED THIS THREAD...........
 
I have only one goal: to save my threads. Now others (mods) have joined my crusade. To them I'm a friend; but to the rest of PTV, I am someone else. I am... something else.
 
Please don't make me be something else.
 
Thank you!

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

At the recent NY Comic Con, Gillian Anderson collected some additional celebrity doodles to be auctioned off for one of her favorite charities, Doodles 4 NF (http://www.doodle4nf.org/), including  a doodle drawn by Stephen Amell.

 

Stephen Amell's doodle (includes salmon ladder!), dated Oct. 11, 2014, can be seen here:
http://www.doodle4nf.org/gallery/v/2015+Doodles/And+Coming+Soon.jpg.html#.VET3ofldUuQ

 

John Barrowman also did two doodles for this charity (one Torchwood/Doctor Who-related, one Arrow-related), which can be seen here:
http://www.doodle4nf.org/gallery/v/2014+Doodles/

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
smoak and the arrow  @iForeeverYooung Oct 18

hey @mguggenheim are you guys gonna tell when did Oliver know he loved Felicity? #Arrow @ARROWwriters

 

Marc Guggenheim  @mguggenheim

@iForeeverYooung @ARROWwriters Honestly, I don't know when Oliver knew.  He's, like, the least self-aware guy ever.

2:36 PM - 18 Oct 2014

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/523588403548286976

Edited by tv echo
Chaser

Chaser

On the recent set visit they talked The Flash crossover a lot, you would have thought EBR and DR would be there since the O3 Arrow were the only ones that go Central City. At the very least EBR should be there to promote the mini-cross.

 

I really hope we get something from EBR next week for E4 and esp. for E5. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Why are we getting more interviews with BR about Ray and Felicity then with EBR?

 

Because he played Superman once, so the EPs are still in starstruck mode? That's all I got.

 

But please, let them do an Atom spinoff starring Brandon Routh. That shit would tailspin so fast that not even their new favourite toy, Barry Allen, would be able to catch it. A crap superhero, played by a man whose range goes from wooden to creepy, and nowhere else. Hell, let him take Laurel as his gal friday, just to complete the gargantuan pile of shit.

Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

You know that makes me wonder if he's just meant to be creepy. Many people have said he's funny and charming but I'm like...erm no he isn't. Perhaps we're just meant to be very wary of him. If not, then just wow. Because boy is he a creeper.

 

Hard to say. He was definitely wooden in Superman Returns, but that fits the Superman character anyway. In Chuck, he was creepy as fuck, and he was in Scott Pilgrim vs The World as well. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time these EPs think a character is one thing, while consistently showing them to be something else, so these chumps probably think Routh is all easy charm and affable sweetness.

Edited by Danny Franks
calliope1975

calliope1975

But it certainly wouldn't be the first time these EPs thing a character is one thing, while consistently showing them to be something else, so these chumps probably think Routh is all easy charm and affable sweetness.

 

Even worse, I wouldn't be surprised if they find the stalking charming. Before I read the 50 Shades of Ray recap, (thanks iO9!) I was okay with Ray's pursuit of Felicity for business, but I think I'm beginning to change my mind. Especially when people pointed out how he proceeded to tell Felicity that she wasn't really mad at him as if she couldn't be upset about more than one thing. I'm thinking we might need a Ray Palmer thread since he's going to be around for 1/2 the season.

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Guest
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