Cosmocrush July 2, 2015 Share July 2, 2015 (edited) Using the "Valley of the Dolls" theme in the NJ finale was absolutely perfect. I've been haunted by that song ever since and it really added to the sadness I felt for Jackie thinking that death was her only option. I preferred the k.d. lang version they used rather than Dionne Warwick's used in the movie. I agree with both sentiments. The k.d. Lang version is 1000x better. The finale scene truly haunted me and I think the music was a big part of it. Additional tidbit/layer about that song: It was supposed to have been sung by Judy Garland, who was cast in the Susan Hayward role (which was based on Ethel Merman). Garland was fired from the film because of her drug and alcohol issues. That is interesting Chattygal. Here's some more: this song was one of the last songs Andre Previn composed before leaving the film scoring business for good and becoming a full time conductor. His former partner and soon to be ex-wife Dory Previn wrote the lyrics. She had a history with drug addiction and mental illness including being institutionalized more than once. One more song tie in trivia I found: As already noted, Dionne Warwick originally recorded this song but the B side of that record (look it up kids) was a song by Burt Burt Bacharach and Hal David entitled "I Say a Little Prayer." I wonder which came first, the title of this episode or the song choice? Edited July 2, 2015 by Cosmocrush 6 Link to comment
dangwoodchucks July 2, 2015 Share July 2, 2015 Jackie is haunting me. I'm at work reconciling my boss's credit card statement and I did a double take on a receipt. It's from All Saints Exxon. 7 Link to comment
hatchetgirl July 2, 2015 Share July 2, 2015 Corpse pose is my favorite yoga pose when done right. I can't help comparing Jackie's death to to the main character in The Big C. I loved both shows but the contrast is amazing. I can't see then being out of narcan (is that the med). Really how many od's did they see for that? I just ended that show with how vile and creepy Eddie was. Ugh. 1 Link to comment
LadyintheLoop July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 She’s watching her happy, partying co-workers with a slight smile, almost like she has recognized something and then she goes into the bathroom and stares at herself in the mirror. Her eyes are dark and vacant and I think she has realized and accepted that happy is an emotion she will never really be able to feel. Then she pulls out the three bags of heroin, presumably pre-portioned by serving size by an experienced heroin addict, and inhales all three. It's a sad callback to the opening credits, where she smiles into the mirror in happy anticipation and opens her medicine cabinet. That said, she opened "only" one bag; numbing the pain of the moment was a higher priority than surviving the experience, but I still have trouble believing that she'd have knowingly ruined Fiona's big day. If she did . . . yikes! Apart from "final impenitence," wasn't "despair" also on the list? 3 Link to comment
paramitch July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 Good point. I'm more in the, "She knew what that much horse could do to her." idea. She knew death was a possibility and just didn't care right then. Everyone was leaving her, the hospital was gone, and the drugs were just there. Unplanned and yet inevitable. That's how I am thinking too. the initial movement was almost like they were beckoning Jackie to join them and when she did it was perfect timing for the Savasana pose as dangwoodchucks posted. Also red often symbolizes death and the yoga mats were all red. This was my take. I thought her stare into the mirror was the stare of a junkie who wants a fix and a BIG one. The stare of an alcoholic about to go on a bender. Just the look of someone going, "Just make it all go away." I think that's why she poured out those big lines. And as Jackie has always been arrogant, I really think that at least on the surface, she's aways thought she could handle anything. Now, whether there was a subconscious self-destructive impulse underneath that? I absolutely think there was. But I just don't think Jackie was specifically thinking, "Screw them, I'll kill myself." I will always think it was more like, "What's going to happen to me now? Don't think about it. Don't think about it. This will make it all go away." I see "sociopath" get thrown around as a general catch-all term these days and it drives me bananas. It's a very specific clinical diagnosis and not just a blanket descriptive for an extremely unpleasant, selfish person. It will probably end up the next "literally," where the wrong definition ends up becoming part of the accepted definition *sigh* Thank you! This drives me nuts. I think the need to define people as sociopaths is a comfort thing -- I think people are more comfortable thinking, "Well, the person who did that has no feelings, they're like a robot, they're not normal," when even among sociopaths (who are actually incredibly rare) this isn't precisely correct. Selfishness isn't sociopathy. Jackie certainly had real feelings for others. But her addiction and her need (and self-blindness) dwarfed them all. I agree with both sentiments. The k.d. Lang version is 1000x better. The finale scene truly haunted me and I think the music was a big part of it. That is interesting Chattygal. Here's some more: this song was one of the last songs Andre Previn composed before leaving the film scoring business for good and becoming a full time conductor. His former partner and soon to be ex-wife Dory Previn wrote the lyrics. She had a history with drug addiction and mental illness including being institutionalized more than once. One more song tie in trivia I found: As already noted, Dionne Warwick originally recorded this song but the B side of that record (look it up kids) was a song by Burt Burt Bacharach and Hal David entitled "I Say a Little Prayer." I wonder which came first, the title of this episode or the song choice? Thanks for all the fascinating little extra facts, you guys! The revelation of Jackie's "corpse pose" on the yoga mat, the meaning of the bright red colors, the interesting nuances of "Say a Little Prayer" and "Valley of the Dolls" and more! I had no idea that was k.d. lang singing it, but she did a typically beautiful job with it -- I can't believe I didn't recognize her voice. One final thought on the title of this episode -- it's of course a direct reference to Jackie's constant prayer to be good, going back to the pilot. But what's interesting is that you could argue that with Zoey's final loving affirmation and goodbye ("You're good"), Zoey was the answer to Jackie's prayers. Since I do think Zoey is magical and wonderful, this kind of moved me. Also, I would watch a Zoey spinoff tomorrow. Just saying. Words can't express how wonderful and unique I thought Zoey was -- or how terrific Merritt Wever was in the role. I hope she goes on to many many more wonderful shows and projects. 7 Link to comment
Mindymoo July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 It's a sad callback to the opening credits, where she smiles into the mirror in happy anticipation and opens her medicine cabinet. That said, she opened "only" one bag; numbing the pain of the moment was a higher priority than surviving the experience, but I still have trouble believing that she'd have knowingly ruined Fiona's big day. If she did . . . yikes! Apart from "final impenitence," wasn't "despair" also on the list? My great aunt committed suicide on the morning of her daughter's first communion. You never know with addicts or the mentally ill. Link to comment
Cosmocrush July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 This was my take. I thought her stare into the mirror was the stare of a junkie who wants a fix and a BIG one. The stare of an alcoholic about to go on a bender. Just the look of someone going, "Just make it all go away." I think that's why she poured out those big lines. And as Jackie has always been arrogant, I really think that at least on the surface, she's aways thought she could handle anything. Now, whether there was a subconscious self-destructive impulse underneath that? I absolutely think there was. But I just don't think Jackie was specifically thinking, "Screw them, I'll kill myself." I will always think it was more like, "What's going to happen to me now? Don't think about it. Don't think about it. This will make it all go away." Yes! You said that so much better than I could. I get that "I Say A Little Prayer" refers to Jackie's prayer to "make me good" but I thought it was really interesting that the title of this episode was the same as the hit song from the B side of (Theme From) Valley of the Dolls song. Maybe it was just a coincidence. 1 Link to comment
LotusFlower July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 Oh, for heaven's sake, she was doing them a favor! Her daughters couldn't stand her and her ex was sick to death of her shenanigans. She was never going to change, so she did the best thing for them she could possibly do. This makes absolutely no difference in their lives, apart from a slight reduction in stress. They will sort of angrily mourn for a year, and then go on with their lives. And Kevin won't even do that. He'll manage respectful silence for the girls' sake, but he won't really be too broken up about this. Prinz will not ask himself anything for very long because he's got a very short time to live himself, and he will go knowing that he did everything he could to help Jackie. Akalitus knows for a fact that she did all that anyone in her position could possibly have done for Jackie, and although she'll be sad and a little angry, she won't for very long. She already washed her hands of Jackie some time ago. O'Harah has better things to think about, and has had for a couple of years. She'll cry hard, then go home and dry her tears and get on with her life. Now and again she might call Fiona, but she's good at compartmentalizing and might even forget that she calls Fiona because of who Fiona's mother was. You make it sound like they lost a goldfish. 3 Link to comment
Miles July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 (edited) Showrunner Clyde Phillips wants the ending to be considered ambiguous (yawn)... http://m.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/did-nurse-jackie-end-at-the-right-time-and-in-the-right-way/ Ambiguous endings were hip and interesting 10 years ago, now they are just annoying. I was already disappointed when we didn't clearly see her die in the episode. Guess I'll have to work hard to rewrite that memory to one where she clearly did die. Also that guy calls Jackie a sociopath. Either he doesn't know what that word means or he failed spectacularly as a showrunner. Jackie is an addict and she can be ruthless when somebody comes between her and her drugs and/or nursing and she is certainly a horrible person, but she is not a sociopath. I also don't know how true to the character this ending really is. Jackie knows her shit when it comes to drugs. That she would do three lines of heroin, of unknown origin, without testing a little dose first, rings false to me. By engineering her own shocking, unexpected end in front of people who loved and respected her, Jackie does look guilty of impenitence. Jackie is like a terrorist who detonates herself, a bomb wounding and hurting others with her personal shrapnel.I don't think it was supposed to have been intentional. Just an accidental overdose. Ofcourse I can certainly see how it came across a different way, as I said above, not being carefull with drugs doesn't fit Jackie. Even Akalitis and Dr Prinz will ask themselves for years whether they could have done more or done it differently to avoid the unthinkable end.Well, Prinz will be dead in a few weeks, so he won't ask himself anything. By discarding the tools of her nursing trade, one-by-one, in plain sight, Jackie makes a deliberate death ritual out of her end, leaving a clear message that she planned her death and was--for whatever reason--guilty of impenitence and indifference to the feelings of all those who cared enough to love her.That was in her dream though. In reality she walked out of the bathroom and immediatly collapsed. This. The amount she snorted was much greater than we've seen her do before. Consciously or subconsciously, she was going out and hurting everyone in her personal and professional life.Well that's not true. Doing three lines at once was her thing. She just never did heroin before. Edit: Everybody here seems convinced that Jacie commited suicide. Have I read this wrong? I was sure it was just a badly coreographed accidental overdose. Edited July 3, 2015 by Miles 7 Link to comment
Miles July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 (edited) She left everything she was behind, correct. But that was when she was already dying and her unconcious must have known that. I don't think this overdose was planed, concious or unconcious, it was just really badly coreographed. If this show was otherwise executed on the same competence level as breking bad, I would agree with all of you, but since the opposite was the case I'm going with the set designer or director screwing up by giving her her usual three lines to snort. Even the interview of the showrunner makes it sound like an accident. While he never specifically adresses a suicide, he says "We wanted to end with something that's authentic to someone who has that disease.". Authentic to this disease is an accidental overdoese, not a suicide. While ofcourse intentional overdoses happen, they aren't the norm. Edited July 3, 2015 by Miles 1 Link to comment
Hecate7 July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 Absolutely. There are a ton of things in the finale indicating her death. I was just pointing out that people who believe she lived point to the fact she opened her eyes. Clod Phillips just makes himself look like more of an idiot each time he opens his mouth about his ambiguous ending. I haven't noticed anything to make me doubt she died. Coincidentally, Neely's (Patty Duke) last name in "Valley of the Dolls" was O'Hara. Ironically Neely O'Hara is based on Judy Garland herself. Judy was far too old to play her when the movie was made, and so she was cast in the Susan Hayward role. She was uncomfortable being mean onscreen or playing villainesses, and had a hard time delivering what they wanted, which might have been as much of a factor as the drug and alcohol problem. 2 Link to comment
Eire July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 I hope I’m not repeating something that’s already been discussed, but I just read that interview with the show-runner and it answered two questions I've been wondering about - who was the guy with the green hair? Her rehab buddy? And, who's the guy on the bike? “We planted a lot of stuff in the last episode, in that scene where Jackie steps out of the bathroom and takes off her stethoscope and puts it on the counter with her watch and ID card and she steps outside and is walking down the street, she's anonymous among all these other people. And we go a little tighter, and you may not notice but a boy with green hair runs by. That'sCharlie (Jake Cannavale). And bike messenger goes by very quietly — that's the messenger who didn't survive the first episode when Coop killed him. Then she's walking by and a few nuns smile at her. It's this religious undertone of the final episode that starts at the church and when she's washing the feet of Vinny Raven [the drug addict Jackie treated in the finale] because all souls deserve to be treated at All Saints.”http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nurse-jackie-series-finale-clyde-805408 2 Link to comment
Bcharmer July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 That said, she opened "only" one bag; numbing the pain of the moment was a higher priority than surviving the experience, but I still have trouble believing that she'd have knowingly ruined Fiona's big day. I believe she opened all three bags. There were tiny time-jumps, so we only watched her dump out the contents from one bag. But if you look carefully, there's one shot that shows three empty bags. That was way too much powder had it only been from one bag. And it wouldn't have been like Jackie to leave the other two untouched. This contributes to the idea that she knew what she was doing. And I'm also one who believes she died. Maybe not right then, but perhaps minutes later. I think it would have taken several minutes to die that way, not suddenly. I could be wrong, though. I also loved that they used Valley of the Dolls again. I remember they used the original version for the pilot episode, which I thought was genius. Glad they brought it back, as it was just perfect. 4 Link to comment
dangwoodchucks July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 I hope I’m not repeating something that’s already been discussed, but I just read that interview with the show-runner and it answered two questions I've been wondering about - who was the guy with the green hair? Her rehab buddy? And, who's the guy on the bike? “We planted a lot of stuff in the last episode, in that scene where Jackie steps out of the bathroom and takes off her stethoscope and puts it on the counter with her watch and ID card and she steps outside and is walking down the street, she's anonymous among all these other people. And we go a little tighter, and you may not notice but a boy with green hair runs by. That'sCharlie (Jake Cannavale). And bike messenger goes by very quietly — that's the messenger who didn't survive the first episode when Coop killed him. Then she's walking by and a few nuns smile at her. It's this religious undertone of the final episode that starts at the church and when she's washing the feet of Vinny Raven [the drug addict Jackie treated in the finale] because all souls deserve to be treated at All Saints.” http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nurse-jackie-series-finale-clyde-805408 There's also an older lady who briefly becomes prominent on the other side of Jackie in the scene when the green-haired boy goes by. I wonder if she was supposed to represent another patient who died, but I can't think of who it might be. That bit between Jackie leading Vinnie out of the bathroom and her washing his feet, the stylized close up of powder falling, must have been to foreshadow her death by heroin. 4 Link to comment
Eire July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 I believe she opened all three bags. There were tiny time-jumps, so we only watched her dump out the contents from one bag. But if you look carefully, there's one shot that shows three empty bags. That was way too much powder had it only been from one bag. And it wouldn't have been like Jackie to leave the other two untouched. This contributes to the idea that she knew what she was doing. And I'm also one who believes she died. Maybe not right then, but perhaps minutes later. I think it would have taken several minutes to die that way, not suddenly. I could be wrong, though. I looked at that scene again and the three bags look empty to me. Would just one bag even lead to an overdose? I wouldn't think so, but then again, my only experience with heroin is from watching Trainspottng so... 1 Link to comment
Eire July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 There's also an older lady who briefly becomes prominent on the other side of Jackie in the scene when the green-haired boy goes by. I wonder if she was supposed to represent another patient who died, but I can't think of who it might be. That bit between Jackie leading Vinnie out of the bathroom and her washing his feet, the stylized close up of powder falling, must have been to foreshadow her death by heroin. Ah, the lady. Magda or the hospital board member with the superior attitude maybe? And the two nuns she smiled at - Helen, the alcoholic nun, whose identity Jackie stole. Nice catch on the powder scene. 2 Link to comment
Eire July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 Ughhhhh how could they give us such a rich episode to critique like this after those preceding episodes?!?!? The entire season should have been this stimulating and thought-provoking! That would have been ideal, but now I don't care about the rest of the season's lousy episodes because the finale was, IMHO, phenomenal. 6 Link to comment
Eire July 3, 2015 Share July 3, 2015 One thing to consider is how susceptible an addict, who has been clean for a significant amount of time - even just a few months - is to overdose when they start using again. Time: The Tolerance Effect (Sorry for the wonky quote formatting; everytime I try to add paragraph spaces, new quote boxes open.) Ah, I'm not the only one who calls her Magda!!!! :)) Magda was a great character and one of the few things I enjoyed about SITC. 1 Link to comment
dangwoodchucks July 4, 2015 Share July 4, 2015 (edited) Edit: Everybody here seems convinced that Jacie commited suicide. Have I read this wrong? I was sure it was just a badly coreographed accidental overdose. I believe it was intentional because I don't think Jackie would use heroin just for a fix. Adding heroin to her opiate addiction would be too much to hide and Jackie would know that. She also didn't look like she was jonesing before she went into the bathroom. She was just peacefully taking a last look around. I'm also not convinced she had nothing else to get high on. When we saw her take the pill in the church she didn't look troubled as if it was her last pill. She had had access to drugs in the hospital for a week and she knew it would soon be closing. I'm sure she stocked up, especially since Eddie couldn't get her anymore meds. The timeline of the episode was tighter than I first thought. I thought it covered all day, but the clock in the ER said 10:20 or so when Jackie and O'Hara first got there, and Jackie died about 3.05. Edited July 4, 2015 by dangwoodchucks 5 Link to comment
Miles July 4, 2015 Share July 4, 2015 I believe it was intentional because I don't think Jackie would use heroin just for a fix. Adding heroin to her opiate addiction would be too much to hide and Jackie would know that.What? How? Heroin is just another opiat. It makes you addicted faster, but that's about it. 2 Link to comment
P3pp3rb1rd July 5, 2015 Share July 5, 2015 When Zoey told Jackie "You're good" at the end I felt really weird. A pang of nausea and annoyance hit me. It almost felt like Zoey was high-fiving Jackie for successfully overdosing at last! But that didn't make rational sense. I was disoriented by Zoey's "You're good". In fact, dwelling on it more, I wondered if that's what Zoey really said, or was it part of Jackie's hallucination because she wanted someone, somewhere to tell her she was good when she knew she wasn't? Or maybe Jackie was in the act of committing that final sin of impenitence, so it was ironic that Zoey would call Jackie "good". Jackie had finally sunk all the way into sins against the Holy Spirit. Jackie at last had her "Confirmation" as a lost soul for Hell all eternity. 1 Link to comment
radishcake July 5, 2015 Share July 5, 2015 When Zoey told Jackie "You're good" at the end I felt really weird. A pang of nausea and annoyance hit me. It almost felt like Zoey was high-fiving Jackie for successfully overdosing at last! But that didn't make rational sense. I was disoriented by Zoey's "You're good". In fact, dwelling on it more, I wondered if that's what Zoey really said, or was it part of Jackie's hallucination because she wanted someone, somewhere to tell her she was good when she knew she wasn't? Or maybe Jackie was in the act of committing that final sin of impenitence, so it was ironic that Zoey would call Jackie "good". Jackie had finally sunk all the way into sins against the Holy Spirit. Jackie at last had her "Confirmation" as a lost soul for Hell all eternity. You know I've been in a lot of panic situations where something bad was happening when someone is hurt and that's kind of one of those things you say while you are trying to keep someone calm. You know? "It's OK, you're good, come on, shhhhhhh", etc... So maybe it was just something that Zoey would say without thinking but because of Jackie's addict self-centeredness she would see that as absolution. 7 Link to comment
Blakeston July 5, 2015 Share July 5, 2015 (edited) I agree with those who think she intended, at least on some level, to kill herself. But I also think the makers of the show failed pretty badly at showing us why she was in that mindset at that moment. I'm inclined to think it's because she was always suicidal on some level - and at that moment, she genuinely felt that everyone would be better off without her (or at least that they'd be okay without her), and so for once she didn't feel obligated to stick around. She'd been given lots of reasons to think that she was no longer needed. - O'Hara had just made it clear that being friends with Jackie was agonizing. - Zoey had just explained her desire to break free. - Grace was now functional, and about to go away to college. - Prince was reaching the point where any medical professional could care for him and he wouldn't know the difference. - Eddie wouldn't go to jail if Jackie died, because then he'd be free to make a deal and name names. - All Saints was closing. And when O'Hara reminded Jackie of all the things she is other than a nurse, I think it hit Jackie that she was pretty much a failure at every other aspect of her life. And she also didn't want to handle the pressure of being all those things. She looked distressed at the thought that she meant everything to Eddie - she didn't think she could live up to that. That's my theory - but if that's what they were going for, I don't think the writers conveyed it effectively. Jackie didn't seem like someone who had concluded that her girls would be better off without her. And why show us that Kevin and Mia were greedy and untrustworthy, if they were headed toward an ending where Jackie thinks Fiona will be better off with them? I suppose the obvious answer is that the writers probably didn't bother thinking about it at all. Edited July 5, 2015 by Blakeston 6 Link to comment
Mindymoo July 5, 2015 Share July 5, 2015 (edited) Mindy, I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing that. You just never know with addicts and the mentally ill. (And since addiction is a disease and all.) My great aunt was bi-polar, or what they called a manic depressive in those days. She poisoned herself with exhaust fumes in the early hours of the morning of her daughter's first communion. My Busia ended up raising three of her seven children because her dad was a bit of an absentee father and he remarried quickly and the woman was a rotten piece of work who treated the children like garbage. With Jackie, I have no trouble seeing this as an intentional overdose. Heroin wasn't her drug of choice, and while it is an opiate, she had been mostly clean for awhile. A lot of addicts end up overdosing when they start using after a period of sobriety. Their tolerance goes down. Not to mention the fact that she took a ridiculously large amount of heroin. Everything and everyone was moving on without her. Sure, she got the job at Bellevue, but Zoey wasn't following her, her daughters didn't need her, her ex-husband was happy with his new family, O'Hara seemed done with her, and Eddie was going to prison. She had nothing left. So why not? If there were *literally* no drugs left in the hospital pharmacy, there would be no narcan to save her ass either. So she took herself out. I don't find that too hard to stomach. Edited July 5, 2015 by Mindy McIndy 4 Link to comment
P3pp3rb1rd July 5, 2015 Share July 5, 2015 She had nothing left. So why not? If there were *literally* no drugs left in the hospital pharmacy, there would be no narcan to save her ass either. So she took herself out. Did we ever know why Jackie became an addict? All along through the series I wondered if they might have been implying that Jackie was so supremely empathic and sensitive to others' pain and suffering that she had to take the drugs to remain calm and face each day at work. Yet her nursing career was an addiction too, because her empathy to patients made Jackie feel connected, human, and stronger than most people. Her feeling for her patients gave her intimacy that she craved, but it also was such a drain or pressure that she needed drugs to stay on an even keel to handle other aspects of her life. Gradually, her addiction to nursing was taking over her life and crowding out other normal relationships such as being a wife, friend, and parent. Jackie seemed to be excited about going to Bellevue to continue her nursing career, so I was shocked when she did opt out of everything by taking an overdose. She didn't seem emotionally strong enough to start anew on her own without her friends and family. When those relationships were withdrawn, the rewards of nursing could not sustain her, and the pressure and suffering inherent in nursing overwhelmed her. 1 Link to comment
Blakeston July 5, 2015 Share July 5, 2015 Did we ever know why Jackie became an addict? At the very beginning of the pilot, Jackie says, "What do you call a nurse with a bad back? Unemployed." I've always assumed that she started taking prescription painkillers for her back, and became hooked on them, and began relying on them psychologically. 13 Link to comment
Cosmocrush July 6, 2015 Share July 6, 2015 So I binged [re]watched the first three seasons this week and one thing that stood out to me, in regards to the finale anyway, was that Jackie rarely put much thought into the drugs she took or what would happen in the next five minutes, five hours, five days. Anytime things got tough she immediately snorted or swallowed whatever she either had on her or had stashed. It sort of reminded me of when I was still smoking but pretending I'd quit - anything stressful would send me in search of a stashed smoke or the one I often kept in a Tampax wrapper in my bag. Seriously. Jackie's last day was very stressful; everyone in her life was leaving her or had already left. She reverted and the only drugs available at that moment was the heroin. I don't think she cared but I honestly don't think she thought one second past doing them. She just wanted her pain to go away. 9 Link to comment
Mindymoo July 6, 2015 Share July 6, 2015 At the very beginning of the pilot, Jackie says, "What do you call a nurse with a bad back? Unemployed." I've always assumed that she started taking prescription painkillers for her back, and became hooked on them, and began relying on them psychologically. I remember that well. It could be a BS excuse, but a lot of people start out that way. I've known many. (I'm personally very lucky because I have a genetic disorder that makes me immune to the blotto side effects of opiod pain killers, so they help my pain, but don't make me loopy. I was on morphine and fentanyl for seven years, and went through the hell of withdrawal at the end, but was never addicted to them. I was just hospitalized for a really bad DVT and was getting 2mg dilaudid every four hours, and it didn't make me "high" at all. It just treated my pain. If it wasn't for the awful swollen leg and the pain, I'd have been safe to drive afterwards. A couple of beers, on the other hand...) But many, many people start taking them legitimately, then get addicted like Jackie. With DEA regulations becoming stricter, a lot of people are no longer getting the actual medications they legitimately need and are turning to the streets so they don't go without, and that is turning people into addicts. A lot of addicts keep taking them and don't even get high anymore, they just take the drugs so they don't go into withdrawal and get sick. (And let me tell you, withdrawal is absolute misery.) There were times where Jackie was using and seemed completely with it and okay, and others where she seemed high as a kite and dangerous to patients. It really depends on the particular drugs, if the are instant release or controlled release, and the dosage. 3 Link to comment
LadyintheLoop July 6, 2015 Share July 6, 2015 All along through the series I wondered if they might have been implying that Jackie was so supremely empathic and sensitive to others' pain and suffering that she had to take the drugs to remain calm and face each day at work. Yet her nursing career was an addiction too, because her empathy to patients made Jackie feel connected, human, and stronger than most people. Her feeling for her patients gave her intimacy that she craved, but it also was such a drain or pressure that she needed drugs to stay on an even keel to handle other aspects of her life. That's an interesting theory but I have a different one: Jackie was first and foremost an adrenaline junkie. That's what made her such a great fit for the ER, but it left her easily bored, unable to live without constant change and excitement. Two moments stand out: At the end of Season 2 (?), when Jackie has painted herself into a corner, she looks into a mirror and intones, "My name is Jackie, and I'm a drug addict" -- and then cackles, "Bite me!" During Season 6 Antoinette, while showing a co-op, complains that sobriety is effing boring. As her sober self she's ordinary and as a recovering addict she's faintly pathetic, but as a high-functioning user she's awesome! Faster than a speeding drug test! Leaps tall administrators in a single bound! The lying and scheming and hairsbreadth escapes just confirmed to her how extraordinary she was; a steady, legal supply wouldn't have satisfied her. 9 Link to comment
Bcharmer July 6, 2015 Share July 6, 2015 I believe it was intentional because I don't think Jackie would use heroin just for a fix. Adding heroin to her opiate addiction would be too much to hide and Jackie would know that. What? How? Heroin is just another opiat. It makes you addicted faster, but that's about it. For one thing, it would be harder to obtain (as opposed to legal meds she could easily get in the hospital), and also, it would be harder to hide being high on heroin. She appeared fairly functional on pills... not sure that would be the case with heroin. I believe it would be far more obvious. 1 Link to comment
KOSMOS July 7, 2015 Share July 7, 2015 "Did we ever know why Jackie became an addict?"<br /><br />Jackie ecplicitly states the REAL reason in season 4 to Charlie, arguably the strongest season. For 2 years, her new daughter Grace just wouldn't stop crying. <br /><br />That's why she becomes so concerned about being a proper mother in the 4th season; because admitting that Grace was her "ground zero" as Charlie puts it is almost like giving your firstborn a big F u.<br /><br />Sorry I can't qoute original poster and elaborate more on this dying cell but watch that and some following season 4 eps; they're pretty powerful. 2 Link to comment
Cosmocrush July 7, 2015 Share July 7, 2015 Did we ever know why Jackie became an addict? Jackie ecplicitly states the REAL reason in season 4 to Charlie, arguably the strongest season. For 2 years, her new daughter Grace just wouldn't stop crying. <br /><br />That's why she becomes so concerned about being a proper mother in the 4th season; because admitting that Grace was her "ground zero" as Charlie puts it is almost like giving your firstborn a big F u. Sorry I can't quote original poster and elaborate more on this dying cell but watch that and some following season 4 eps; they're pretty powerful. I'd forgotten about that until I saw the episode last night KOSMOS. You're right, I missed when she confided that to Charlie but in S4 she admitted to the rehab counselor that the first time she used pain killers for something besides pain wasn't her back ( as she had first said in group) but her daughter and it wasn't a vicodin, but a percocet. I thought she was just trying to talk her way out of rehab early (which she did btw) but now that you bring it up I believe she did say that to Charlie too. 1 Link to comment
Mu Shu July 8, 2015 Share July 8, 2015 I'm not even going to read that interview. I learned from the Season 7 finale of House that sometimes showrunners need to STFU and just let the work speak for itself. I think this was a pretty good and fitting ending for Jackie. She died in the place that defined her in the arms of her enablers. She committed a nice big suicide in front of the people who loved her so that they will have to deal with the guilt and the memory for the rest of their lives. She died before her daughter's confirmation. The same daughter that she always took for granted as the "good" one. The invisible one who rarely asked for anything. The night before she was supposed to get a chance in the spotlight surrounded by people who loved her. Instead Fiona gets the news that her mother didn't think she was worth sticking around for her. Eddie tells her that she's his everything so she takes that away from him. That was one big giant fuck you to everyone. Quintessential Jackie. Or it could be seen as Jackie putting all her friends and family out of the misery she couldn't stop causing them, and therefore an unselfish act. As awful as the last two seasons were, I'll miss the show. 5 Link to comment
Hecate7 July 11, 2015 Share July 11, 2015 Or it could be seen as Jackie putting all her friends and family out of the misery she couldn't stop causing them, and therefore an unselfish act. As awful as the last two seasons were, I'll miss the show. That's how I saw it, too. She committed suicide, because it was the best thing she could do for everyone, and whether or not they realized it, all of them except Eddie had just told her so, in so many words. 3 Link to comment
DuckyinKy July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 I agree with those who think she intended, at least on some level, to kill herself. I think maybe we are complicating things. Jackie was an addict. One thing addicts do, is ingest enough poison to become numb. And sometimes numb is death. It all adds up. 5 Link to comment
pbutler111 July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 I see that Falco has been nominated for Best Leading Actress in a Comedy Series. I have to admit that it would have never, EVER occurred to me that Nurse Jackie was meant to be a comedy. 5 Link to comment
roughing it July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 I agree, pbutler111. I see Nurse Jackie as a drama with a few comedic touches thrown in occasionally. 2 Link to comment
Cosmocrush July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 I see that Falco has been nominated for Best Leading Actress in a Comedy Series. I have to admit that it would have never, EVER occurred to me that Nurse Jackie was meant to be a comedy. I read somewhere that it was put in that category because it was a half hour show. I remember Falco questioning it at the time as well. 1 Link to comment
paramitch November 24, 2015 Share November 24, 2015 (edited) I was describing my (very) emotional reaction to this finale the other day, and it still moves me in a lot of ways. The show was very uneven but ultimately I give it a lot of credit -- it was pretty unswerving in showing us the gradual and very believable downslide of a talented, smart and lovable woman into the very final stages of addiction and loss. I have close relatives who are addicts and former addicts, some whose trajectories mimicked Jackie's moment-for-moment (except she is a veterinarian not a nurse). This show broke my heart. As her sober self she's ordinary and as a recovering addict she's faintly pathetic, but as a high-functioning user she's awesome! Faster than a speeding drug test! Leaps tall administrators in a single bound! The lying and scheming and hairsbreadth escapes just confirmed to her how extraordinary she was; a steady, legal supply wouldn't have satisfied her. I think this idea is partially true but not totally accurate. I think Jackie is addictive in general and the good side of that nature shows itself in her dedication to her work and to her excellence at it. She thrives on the excitement and pressure of it and is truly a superb nurse (and FWIW, I only started watching this show after my aunt, a 25-year ER and CCU nurse -- NOT AN ADDICT, hee -- made me try it). But we never see Jackie going further into edgy or adrenaline-junkie behavior. She doesn't take actual physical risks (beyond her addiction that her mind utterly ignores, of course) because of her practical nurse-side. I will always believe Jackie is an outstanding nurse who loves the work, thrives on it, excels at it and who cares about her co-workers and patients. She's just also an addict, which means she is a liar who tells herself the lies don't matter; she is a caregiver who endangers her own body constantly; she is a friend and lover who tells herself that it's okay that she hides the most important parts of herself; she is a person who secretly feels she is not quite good enough and one day they will all find out. For one thing, it would be harder to obtain (as opposed to legal meds she could easily get in the hospital), and also, it would be harder to hide being high on heroin. She appeared fairly functional on pills... not sure that would be the case with heroin. I believe it would be far more obvious. This isn't accurate. In case it helps, opiate addiction is a common and direct doorway to the ultimate of all opiates -- heroin. At the point they go toward heroine, opiate addicts have already exhausted their usual illegal channels for meds, so heroin is not some big bad -- it's obtainable, it's accessible, and it's seductive. It's easy for them to go that next step, as horrible as it might be for most to imagine it. It's a common story: Opiates to heroin to whatever people need from them to get that heroin (selling their bodies, selling drugs, etc.) to keep it all flowing. Many I'm sure question how they got there, but many many do. It's predictable and sad -- and the most common endline for opiate addiction and also one of the highest leading causes of death among addicts. Heroin is subversive because addicts move along to it and get comfortable; they think they know their own tolerances, yet because those go up and down depending on addiction level, a longtime heroin addict can die from a 'returning' dose they could have stood with ease months/years before (and of course that doesn't even factor in the intensity of the product they're taking -- sometimes they're massively cut with other benign substances, sometimes they're shockingly pure). Philip Seymour Hoffman is a tragic example, among many others. Or it could be seen as Jackie putting all her friends and family out of the misery she couldn't stop causing them, and therefore an unselfish act. As awful as the last two seasons were, I'll miss the show. That's how I saw it, too. She committed suicide, because it was the best thing she could do for everyone, and whether or not they realized it, all of them except Eddie had just told her so, in so many words. I will never believe Jackie deliberately committed suicide -- I think she was both too generous and too selfish for that (the nurse and the addict in her soul, fighting it out). I will admit however that it is definitely possible that she overdosed due to not only her constant overconfidence but also due to a nagging sense that "what do these people need me for anyway, I need to just get away from all this for awhile..." I read somewhere that it was put in that category because it was a half hour show. I remember Falco questioning it at the time as well. And adorably, I remember when Edie won the Emmy, she said, to paraphrase, something like: "I just want to remind people that I'm not actually funny." Meanwhile: This show, man. Sometimes it was fantastic. Sometimes abysmal. Most of the time, every episode gave me something -- not just a blistering and pretty searing portrait of an addict's journey, but of a wonderful nurse. I have a family of nurses and always believed the show did a great job at portraying Jackie's competence and confidence, and I loved that. I also appreciated and respected that it was the story of a normal woman for whom addiction was the illness that would kill her. How many other TV shows have addressed addiction in such a matter-of-fact way for a smart and successful character? I admire what the show accomplished in so many ways for this. Addicts aren't just people in the streets or living near dumpsters or robbing pharmacies. They are people you probably see every day, yet who deny to themselves who and what they are. Addicts are liars who lie superbly; to others, and to themselves. If Oscars could be given out on a daily basis, addicts would easily win them all. Believe me, I know. As far as the show, I know a lot of people grew to hate Jackie, but I never did. I saw how fast and how hard she was always trying to maintain her own fragile view of herself as "good." I saw the love others had for her. I loved what a good nurse she was. And I don't mind flawed heroes. I cared about and loved Jackie, and adored Zooey and so many others she loved. And yet, knowing what we all know now: I liked that this was a story of someone who could not ultimately overcome her situation or addiction; I think it's key that Jackie's own ego was the worst culprit. She was never really honest with herself. She was so damn good at her job and at juggling her lies and lives that she couldn't really come clean. She couldn't be honest. Even in recovery, she was brilliantly false, manipulative, and subversive. And yet I bought that she saw it all as routine. Jackie's addiction had turned her into someone who not only took substances constantly, the lies were as addictive as the drugs, and I have seen this firsthand in loved ones. It wasn't just the pills that killed Jackie. It was the lies -- the ones she told herself most of all. To me, the two most telling lies take place in the final moments: The one Jackie told herself before OD-ing ("I just need to make it all stop for a minute"), and the final, loving, "you're good, Jackie," from Zooey. The only down side is -- I really enjoyed this show but I do not think I can ever, ever rewatch it. The finale still haunts and saddens me deeply. And yet I respect the showrunners for pulling no punches there, and always will. Maybe it will even save someone (multiple someones) someday. Edited November 24, 2015 by paramitch 4 Link to comment
Chaos Theory January 4, 2016 Share January 4, 2016 I finally got a chance to watch the last season of Nurse Jackie. I cancelled Showtime so I wasn't able to watch it when it aired but Netflix has it as of right now. (I love you Netflix.) Its been awhile since I read the reviews of the last episode but from what I remember I think a lot of people didn't like the last episode and I can see why. It was a bit of a cliffhanger and had no real resolution for Jackie but I think that was kind of the point. For a drug addict there is no resolution and there will always be those cliff hangy moments of will she die or won't she. I did really like the final season because it looked like Jackie had that chance she was looking for to get at least a part of what she wanted, the love of her daughters back, Eddie and even her job. Everything began to fall into place for her but Jackie being Jackie couldn't hold it together. Her daughter was right about her the drugs weren't really the problem it was that Jackie was just plain unreliable. I thought the ending was kind of sad in a way. I think the person who Jackie ended up losing was Zoey. I think it was Zoey's wide eyed affection that in the end Jackie couldn't stand to lose. That is the irony of the show. In the end I don't think it matters if Jackie lived or died. its finally the same outcome for her. 1 Link to comment
hatchetgirl January 22, 2016 Share January 22, 2016 Just re-watched and heck this was bleak! I re-watched the series and realized she was a fuck up the whole time. During the first watching, you get this feeling she was so so so good as a nurse but on watching it again, she was making mistakes left and right. In the first season she took a hamner to her finger because she forgot her wedding ring. Man that resonated with me throughout. But I still have the same resulting feeling. She was a selfish bitch in the end. 1 Link to comment
Blue Plastic February 2, 2016 Share February 2, 2016 (edited) I thought the ending was kind of sad in a way. I think the person who Jackie ended up losing was Zoey. I think it was Zoey's wide eyed affection that in the end Jackie couldn't stand to lose. I thought so, too. I think it really, really hurt Jackie's feelings when she realized she had lost the trust, adoration, and friendship of her sweet and innocent former protege Zoey. She probably thought Zoey would follow her to Bellevue and keep being her enabler, and when Zoey said she had to go do her own thing so she wouldn't have to worry about Jackie anymore, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Jackie was already losing her comfortable, familiar position at All Saints. Eddie would be gone for at least a year and thus not able to be her supplier, plus he'd probably lose his pharmacist license and thus his worth to her. Her kids were getting older and didn't really need her anymore, plus they were both more than old enough be wise to her usual shit. O'Hara was disgusted with her and had moved to London anyway. Plus I think she really had come to realize that her addict lifestyle was always going to be endangering her nursing license (which she alluded to with Zoey in the bathroom). I really think Jackie would rather die than give up either nursing or addiction. Everything was changing. The loss of Zoey just finalized her decision IMO. Edited February 2, 2016 by Blue Plastic 3 Link to comment
Wings March 15, 2016 Share March 15, 2016 I just binged watched the entire series in 3 days. I agree Blue Plastic. I saw the ending as her suicide though they seemed to leave a little doubt that I did not buy. Losing Zoe did her in more than anything else. I thought the series ran a couple of seasons too long. Maybe it was because I binged and became tired of the repeated plot devices. I liked it though. Excellent series. 2 Link to comment
Wings March 15, 2016 Share March 15, 2016 (edited) When Zoey told Jackie "You're good" at the end I felt really weird. A pang of nausea and annoyance hit me. It almost felt like Zoey was high-fiving Jackie for successfully overdosing at last! But that didn't make rational sense. I was disoriented by Zoey's "You're good". In fact, dwelling on it more, I wondered if that's what Zoey really said, or was it part of Jackie's hallucination because she wanted someone, somewhere to tell her she was good when she knew she wasn't? Or maybe Jackie was in the act of committing that final sin of impenitence, so it was ironic that Zoey would call Jackie "good". Jackie had finally sunk all the way into sins against the Holy Spirit. Jackie at last had her "Confirmation" as a lost soul for Hell all eternity. Zoe said "you're good" because that is what Jackie said to her patients to give them hope and settle them down. It was the perfect tie into what she learned from her. If they are on their way out it is a good message and if they can fight to live, it is a good message. If life is not at stake and they are just scared it is a good message. It is about soothing the patient. Zoe got that wisdom from Jackie. I think Zoe knew she was about to leave. Edited March 15, 2016 by wings707 5 Link to comment
Wings March 15, 2016 Share March 15, 2016 I see that Falco has been nominated for Best Leading Actress in a Comedy Series. I have to admit that it would have never, EVER occurred to me that Nurse Jackie was meant to be a comedy. The creators did not see it as a comedy either. Since it was a 30 minute show it landed in that category since dramas are one hour. Odd but that is how it happened. Falco mentioned that in her Emmy acceptation speech. Link to comment
pbutler111 March 15, 2016 Share March 15, 2016 The creators did not see it as a comedy either. Since it was a 30 minute show it landed in that category since dramas are one hour. Odd but that is how it happened. Falco mentioned that in her Emmy acceptation speech. Thanks for that. I missed her acceptance speech. Link to comment
SororitySue March 23, 2016 Share March 23, 2016 I just binged the series too. I think, in the end, Jackie was just plain tired. She cared for the addict that had been there before and saw the same future for herself and just couldn't deal with it anymore. She also probably saw it as a kindness to her loved ones. Dr. Cruz felt relief when his son OD'd; Jackie wanted the same for her family and friends, except poor, co-dependent Eddie, of course. 2 Link to comment
Maysie April 15, 2016 Share April 15, 2016 I'm really late to this party . . . I just finished the series and I went from really loving it to basically hating it. I think part of the hate came from getting tired of Jackie's shit (though I imagine that is probably realistic for living with an addict). And it would have been easier for me to deal with her shit but the last two seasons became "Jackie may be an addict, but she's an awesome, super-human, lifesaving addict!" In the beginning, I really liked Jackie, despite her flaws, including the cheating and addiction. Early on, I watched and thought "damn! I hope I'm that lucky to have that nurse if I ever find myself in a hospital bed." However, I loathed her by the end of the sixth season and I basically quit most of the final season because I simply couldn't stand watching her game the system and everyone in it. I read the forums and knew she was going to die in the final episode which is why I watched it (plus, I got to see one more smidge of O'Hara). I agree with those who say the writing went downhill after the fourth season, but I didn't mind the fifth season because I felt it was kind of fitting that we got to see Jackie try sobriety. But otherwise, the show became a mess after season four. I didn't like Roman and Coop together. The office sex with them was tiresome at best and gratuitous at worst. Characters went all over the place, such as Grace - anxiety-ridden child to drugging, partying teen to super student in the span of three short years. So much was unbelievable (such as Jackie's explosion of pills all over her car during the accident, yet nothing about that is at all questionable to anyone???). And I had the sense that the writers did stuff because they were propping up Jackie or painting a picture, basically sacrificing the character histories and storytelling for their own creative whims. This example is basically a nitpick, but it stood out in the finale because it bugged me so much: why was the hospital lighting so dim in the finale? Was the ER being run on generators or something? There is no good reason, other than the writers wanted it that way for dramatic effect (probably most especially for the scene when she bathes the addict's feet). Cheap stuff like that isn't arty and it felt like yet again, we were forced to be shown and told (literally) that Jackie is a saint as she washes the feet of an addict in some holy space (I guess it was the old chapel?) I got a headache from being beaten with those 2x4's the writers used so much in the final two seasons. As for whether or not she's dead: in my mind yes, partly because I want her to be. Earlier posters noted that Jackie "shed her skin" by taking off her stethoscope, i.d. and watch. I noticed that there were (I think) two references in the episode to shedding skin (I believe O'Hara was one of the people that said something about "shedding skin"), so yes, I guess that's what she was doing. However, when we see everyone crowded around her as she lays on the ER floor, she still has her stethoscope around her neck. So in my mind, she shed her skin in her fantasy/death hallucination, but hadn't done so in reality. I don't know if it was an intentional overdose or not, however, perhaps because she gave up the tools of her trade when she began the hallucination it was a sign that she'll let go/give up. Overall, I thought the show was very good. At some point I'll re-watch it but I won't go beyond the fifth season. I think, ambiguous as it would have been, it would have been rather fitting to see her as an addict for four years and then end with her at the one year sobriety celebration with her knowing smile as she gets her one year chip. 2 Link to comment
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