S02.E19: Transgender Rights

[Athena]

This week's gay rights victory was historic, but the transgender community still faces staggering challenges. John Oliver focuses on the “T” in “LGBT.”

[trow125]

http://spendyourleapsecondhere.com/

I got "Harvey Keitel crying strangely in 'Bad Lieutenant.'" I wonder how many there are?

[Unusual Suspect]

Mime screaming profanity

Toronto Raptors mascot falling on his stupid face

 

I'm enjoying wasting my time here.

[Delwyn]

http://spendyourleapsecondhere.com/

I got "Harvey Keitel crying strangely in 'Bad Lieutenant.'" I wonder how many there are?

I'm sure someone will make a list. It is the internet.

I am personally hoping it is going to be a one second clip of Rick Astley at 11:59:60 on the 30th. Greatest Rick Roll ever.

[morgankobi]

Tim Gunn saying "Leap Second" and giving advice

(approx.) Nicolas Cage in a bear suit punching a woman, from the movie "Wicker Man"

Actor Jim Parsons (confidentially ?) mispronouncing the word "espresso"

Patrick Stewart introducing Salt-n-Pepa in 1994

Edited June 29, 2015 by morgankobi

[peeayebee]

I got Bob Ross painting a happy little cloud.

 

My bigoted BIL sometimes refers to transgender or even gay people as "it." There's a restaurant we go to where one of the servers is probably a lesbian. She's very nice and competent, and my BIL likes her (as a server), but when she walks away, he calls her an "it." Why? Why be so hateful when you don't dislike the person him- or herself?

 

In his intro to the leap second segment, when the pic of a clock was to his right, John made a little joke about time. The audience laughed, but I couldn't really hear it. I replayed it and still couldn't understand. Any help here?

[Athena]

In his intro to the leap second segment, when the pic of a clock was to his right, John made a little joke about time. The audience laughed, but I couldn't really hear it. I replayed it and still couldn't understand. Any help here?

 

"Time: It's the actual thing that separates men from the boys."

[ottoDbusdriver]

In addition to the ones mentioned so far, I got:
-- a mime screaming profanity
-- Charlie Rose laughing

[stillshimpy]

I got Bob Ross saying, "We'll make a happy little tree."  

 

Funnily enough, it was on TWoP, about ten years ago that I had to ask "Okay, what is the appropriate pronoun to use?" when it came to Alexis Arquette because I didn't know one way or the other what she would prefer.  Someone told me and they weren't actually particularly nice about it, but it's not like I've ever forgotten and it isn't as if there's anything wrong with asking a question so that you'll know the respectful answer.  

 

So now that I've revealed that a decade ago I had to ask that question, I'd just like to point out that in a bazillion years it would never occur to me to ask about a person's genitalia. WTF?  What the actual fuck?  I asked about correct pronoun usage so that I could AVOID being a butt munch to a transgendered person without meaning to, but there aren't any full grown people who should need to be schooled in the "It's always rude to ask anyone about their genitals, other organs or any other insanely personal matters....medical personnel are the only folks exempt from the "if it isn't part of your own, personal body, don't feel free to comment or ask about it."  Merciful Zeus.  

 

On the upside, I've always felt a little bad about having to ask about Alexis Arquette.  I now feel less like a social clod in that moment...so...there's that, for me.  

 

Wow, guys that was more than a decade ago.  I get that we're in some fresh territory as we come to understand gender and try to move past such rigid and unyielding definitions and identities, but holy shit, start from square "Attempt not to be a jackass to another feeling human being...." and go from there.  

 

I think I'm still sort of in shock over Mike Huckabee's "joke' and that commercial.  How tasteless and lead-footed was Huckabee's comment?  Even his audience, which I'm going to guess is made up primarily of ultra-conservative, extremely religious, we-love-the-archaic and "traditional" everything....even those folks basically didn't laugh.  There was a smattering of "Heh.  Ha.  Ha."  type of reactions, but THAT's how dusty, musty and "Oh look what shambled in from when dinosaurs roamed the Earth" that damned joke was....even Mike Huckabee's audience apparently thought, "Well, he's old and probably feeling threatened by a world that is leaving him behind."  in the kindest possible interpretation of what a gross, jackass of a person he was being in that moment.  Ugh.  

[scarynikki12]

I just got Tyrion slapping Joffrey. Hahaha!

[Chaos Theory]

http://spendyourleapsecondhere.com/

 

Ok once I got to Patrick Stewart (my secret husband) introducing Salt-N-Pepa.  I am done.  

 

I think I'm still sort of in shock over Mike Huckabee's "joke' and that commercial.  How tasteless and lead-footed was Huckabee's comment?  Even his audience, which I'm going to guess is made up primarily of ultra-conservative, extremely religious, we-love-the-archaic and "traditional" everything....even those folks basically didn't laugh.

 

 

That is just insanely bad taste.  I mean I never understood the whole "what bathroom do they use" argument myself.  Still to fear monger like that is just plain wrong.

 

Best part though: (and lets see if I can get it al down:  

 

Gender identity is who you are and sexual orientation is who you love.  Some transgendered people do undergo hormone therapy and sexual assignment therapy as part of their transition and some do not and interestingly their decision on this matter is medically speaking NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.  

[ganesh]

Questions about, "what do you look like if I saw you naked?" are demeaning. No one thought to ask a question more thought provoking? Great journalism there. I could think of 10 better questions than that.

I applaud JO and his team for focusing on TG issues. This is the next step in getting all of our friends equal rights.

[Delwyn]

Questions about, "what do you look like if I saw you naked?" are demeaning. No one thought to ask a question more thought provoking? Great journalism there.

I don't think it's implausible that a "journalist" as famous as Barbara Walters could be swallowed up by internet/social media shaming in a heartbeat if she asked "what do you look like if I saw you naked?" of George Clooney or Sandra Bullock in a post-Oscar special about their genitals (Barbara: "George, is it true that you don't show movie goers your penis because you actually have a vagina?"). Is that for real? Although I can understand pronoun confusion from lack of education on the subject, I have to mirror JO's incredulity that it is anybody's business at all.

I think what makes this show so successful is that John gets us all fired up about some really important and overlooked issues, but gleefully balances out the crushing reality with ostrich sex and hamsters eating tiny burritos. I don't take his topics any less seriously because of Space Geckos.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Delwyn

[purist]

Saw this tweet from Mensah Demary* last night (retweeted by Roxane Gay) and it made me feel weird.

 

remember: you’re not obligated to care until John Oliver tells you otherwise.

 

Serious question: is Demary talking out of his arse, or does he have a point? Should Ollie not talk about trans rights because he is a white, straight, middle-class dude and not a trans person? I thought his story on trans rights was fantastic - but is that just because I'm a white middle-class (not-straight) person? I think Ollie is well aware of his privilege and makes that very clear on LWT.

 

*Mensah Demary is an essayist at The Butter blog, editor-in-chief of Specter Magazine and a columnist for Fourculture Magazine.

Edited June 30, 2015 by purist

[Darian]

Saw this tweet from Mensah Demary* last night (retweeted by Roxane Gay) and it made me feel weird.

 

 

Serious question: is Demary talking out of his arse, or does he have a point? Should Ollie not talk about trans rights because he is a white, straight, middle-class dude and not a trans person? I thought his story on trans rights was fantastic - but is that just because I'm a white middle-class (not-straight) person? I think Ollie is well aware of his privilege and makes that very clear on LWT.

 

*Mensah Demary is an essayist at The Butter blog, editor-in-chief of Specter Magazine and a columnist for Fourculture Magazine.

And he followed up with a snarky tweet (that I am not going to link to) that he is aware some people are upset about the first tweet, which means John Oliver said we should be. Those tweets and some replies are disheartening and not the kind of thing I've run into in almost 15 years of being a straight ally and GLBTQ activist. I thought John Oliver handled it right, and as you point out, expresses his awareness of his own privilege. I will just say that not one transgender man or woman I have met in all those years of work ever told me to shut up and go home (quite the opposite). Roxane Gay is a favorite author and I read Butter a bit, so the re-tweet stings.  But fwiw, my social media feeds (which are still rainbow lovefests) have a lot of references to John Oliver's piece, some of them from the transgender men and women and parents/loved ones who are getting laws passed and effecting change. It's their voices I amplify and take my cues from in how to effectively advocate (so I guess Demary would say they tell me when to care...piffle). 

[The Luvly Junkie]

From what I interpreted from Mr. Demary's tweet, I think he might be a little jealous about Ollie-Scone's privilege. Need I have to remind Demary that Ollie-Scone is a comedian, not a journalist nor blogger, nor essayist (unless a setlist of topics for stand-up counts as an essay). He probably feels inferior that a comedian is doing the work of a newsman or journalist, when really it's obvious that comedians are one medium to understanding a complex world. If Demary wants to cover an underrated issue/topic, find an underrated topic and come up with your own arguments instead of leaving the dirty work to the comedian fool.

 

With that out of the way, I don't blame Demary for posting that tweet for a reason. Because Ollie-Scone is covering rarely-discussed topics, he is credited for starting a conversation on that topic, which satire stems into once the stupidity and ignorance of the subject is addressed. Either he wants individuals to be responsible for finding underrated issues without a comedian telling you to do so and to be proactive in the conversation, or he is jealous that Ollie-Scone has privilege and really wants to take over LWT. What a desperate attention-seeker. -_- 

[dusang]

The one thing I actually wish John had explained was the terminology of "transgender woman/man" because, if you don't know you don't know and it could be confusing as, calling someone a "transgender woman" one might be reasonably uncertain as to whether the terminology means "this person was assigned the gender identity woman but has now identified as transgender" (i.e. they are now a man) or (the correct terminology) "this person was assigned the gender identity man but has now identified as a transgender woman."

[purist]

Thanks, Darian. I appreciate your response a lot. And yes, it was Roxane Gay's RT that made me feel weird more than the original tweet, as I'd never heard of Mensah Demary before. By RTing it, I have to assume she agrees with the original tweet, and that disappoints me (not that she would or should care).

Edited June 30, 2015 by purist

[stillshimpy]

Serious question: is Demary talking out of his arse, or does he have a point? Should Ollie not talk about trans rights because he is a white, straight, middle-class dude and not a trans person? I thought his story on trans rights was fantastic - but is that just because I'm a white middle-class (not-straight) person? I think Ollie is well aware of his privilege and makes that very clear on LWT.

 

I think Demary is actually trying to make that point, I just think he's rather misguided in that.  If nearly half of any other segment of the population attempted suicide, due in large part to a complete lack of societal understanding and compassion for the struggles they face, it's worth addressing.   Being part of a society is supposed to mean that the problems of others matter to the entirety of that society.   If nothing else it comes down to social conscience to try and help.  

 

But you know, there's such a big difference between that weather man pinwheeling his arms around and yelling, "Back up, I don't get it..." in the least appropriate surroundings, turning the entire question into a circus and the people at the center of it into oddities or curiosities than what John Oliver is doing.   Now clearly, I'm going to think it's perfectly reasonable to give a damn about what the appropriate pronoun to use would be so as not to inflict emotional injury through insensitivity, but that was not the primary concern (or even the secondary....or any of the concerns to follow) of the wildly gesticulating weatherman who decided to say "Fuck the storm front headed your way!  I want to treat this subject as being freakish!  Hence my gigantic show of mostly feigned confusion"....

 

Demary is wrong though, John Oliver didn't bring this to the fore of anyone's consciousness , he's reacting to the reactions, primarily to Caitlyn Jenner....not creating them.   As for the "you're not obligated to care...." sure we are if any kind of compassion matters to a person.  

 

I don't know why Demary is dismissing anyone's attempts to try and raise awareness, sensitivity and just plain-old fashioned human decency towards other people, but it's pretty poorly done on his part.  The fact that he sneers at and and take jabs at anyone else's attempts to up the decency and compassion standards without our society doesn't speak well of him.  

 

Also, you know, I do get that we have a problem with sort of passing all problems through the White Man's Validation and Affirmation machine before they garner attention.  That is fucked up.  It wasn't until someone like freaking Mitt Romney was tweeting that the freaking Confederate Flag needed to be taken down that the objection seemed to carry.  

 

Maybe that's Demary's real point.  Why do we need the stamp of validation, that stabilizing, primarily white man's voice to speak the outrage before anyone will feel it?  I don't actually feel that's the case here, but that might be his real point.  A case of "Come on, why can something go on, unchecked, unquestioned, accepted...until some white man in a suit says, "Hey, this is wrong...." cue the outrage,  

 

I just don't think that's what is happening in this instance.  In the confederate flag's recent trajectory I do think that was a factor and it is disturbing to contemplate, but I think Demary just has the wrong forest in his sights for some tree shooting on this one.  

Edited June 30, 2015 by stillshimpy

[dcalley]

The one thing I actually wish John had explained was the terminology of "transgender woman/man" because, if you don't know you don't know and it could be confusing as, calling someone a "transgender woman" one might be reasonably uncertain as to whether the terminology means "this person was assigned the gender identity woman but has now identified as transgender" (i.e. they are now a man) or (the correct terminology) "this person was assigned the gender identity man but has now identified as a transgender woman."

 

I actually heard the weatherman say "aren't you just saying 'a woman,' then?" at the end. He maybe didn't go about it in the best way, but he was ultimately asking why not call a woman a woman. So the show presenting this as negative was a bit confusing to me. Here is a comment from Cory McCloskey's facebook page that confirms it.

 

This previously.tv post led me to here, which I found helpful for language.

[dusang]

I actually heard the weatherman say "aren't you just saying 'a woman,' then?" at the end. He maybe didn't go about it in the best way, but he was ultimately asking why not call a woman a woman. So the show presenting this as negative was a bit confusing to me. Here is a comment from Cory McCloskey's facebook page that confirms it.

 

This previously.tv post led me to here, which I found helpful for language.

 

Yes, I heard the weatherman say that too.

 

I just meant that, in John's little summary of gender identity/sexual orientation/etc. I think a simple and obvious thing to clarify is the basic terminology because it is something that isn't necessarily self-evident and can be a touchy subject to question.

Edited June 30, 2015 by dusang

[Athena]

I actually heard the weatherman say "aren't you just saying 'a woman,' then?" at the end. He maybe didn't go about it in the best way, but he was ultimately asking why not call a woman a woman. So the show presenting this as negative was a bit confusing to me. Here is a comment from Cory McCloskey's facebook page that confirms it.

 

Yeah, I heard that too. I don't think it was the best clip, but I think I get where LWT were trying to showcase in that news piece. The story was about a "transgender woman" being kicked out of somewhere. This implies they may have been targeted for being transgender. As John and the GLAAD guide points out, some prefer to be classed as a woman, some as "trans woman". The weatherman's reaction was over the top and may have also showed an unwillingness to really try to understand transgender issues. It was all in the delivery and did not show him in the best light. It showed ignorance and a lack of tact on news about transgender people. Maybe he could have asked that in a better way or not on live news as an aside.

[Chaos Theory]

I thought John Oliver did a well thought out well explained segment in transgendered rights. I thought his summary on gender identity/orientation was great and when he added "none of your fucking business" I laughed out loud.

I know many are curious and it is understandable why but it really is none of our fucking businesses.

And the bathroom stuff. Do people really think someone would go to all that trouble to peep At you peeing ? There are easier ways darling.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[stillshimpy]

I actually heard the weatherman say "aren't you just saying 'a woman,' then?" at the end. He maybe didn't go about it in the best way, but he was ultimately asking why not call a woman a woman. So the show presenting this as negative was a bit confusing to me. Here is a comment from Cory McCloskey's facebook page that confirms it.

 

Ooooh nooooo.  Man alive, talk about an unfortunate clip then.  It doesn't show the guy in the best light, but it is nice to find out he wasn't having a Huckabee moment after all.  

 

I think it is going to be individual though as to whether or not someone wishes to be identified as transgendered, particularly as societal awareness about gender and gender identity are really fairly new to the national conversation.  I agree, Chaos Theory, that it isn't any of our business and people expressing interest in someone else's genitalia in the course of allegedly raising awareness is just demonstrating a really gross loss of boundaries.  

 

But I can also understand why the Trans community would feel it is important to be identified as a Transgendered woman, rather than "a woman" as our society goes through the transition of understanding and accepting gender identity, reassignment and the struggles people face with acceptance.   So whereas I get the weatherman's point, he's kind of missing the point of why someone would wish to be identified as transgendered.  Because it isn't something to be hidden and the more openly it is acknowledged, the better chance that that terrifying statistic will start to go down.  

 

A 41% attempted suicide rate is ....I don't even have the adequate vocabulary to describe how shocked I was by that number.  That statistic indicates a crisis in acceptance.  

 

ETA:  I think the whole, "Why wouldn't you simply say 'a woman' " thing is a little bit like the entire "I don't see color, I see people."  thing.  People who say that mean well, truly, but it's also a way of negating someone else's very real experience in the world.  "Since I don't know how to handle your experience in the world, or how to kindly acknowledge it without participating in the negatives of it, I won't acknowledge it as a real and defining aspect of your experience and life!"  That is not the intent, but it is a side effect.  The intent is good, but it does bypass recognition of what is currently still a struggle.  

 

Basically all I'm saying is we have room for improvement before we can just say "a man" " a woman" without that playing a part in the problem.  It's a denial of another person's reality. 

Edited June 30, 2015 by stillshimpy

[attica]

I've been banging on (in the real world, not here) lately about the habit liberals have of making Good the Enemy of Perfect. So that's the frame of reference I had when I read Demary's tweet. Yes, it's problematic that some people don't notice a thing before it gets the attention of a prominent (white) man, and I get how that kind of thing can enrage. It's not perfect. But it's still good, what Oliver has done. Good is not our enemy. Sure, we should encourage the good to become more perfect, but we shouldn't demonize it. If we demonize it for not being perfect, the real enemies win the persuasion race. 

[Eegah]

As it happens, the Fine Brothers just put up a video on the subject, asking their teen participants about transsexuals. It's quite a interesting viewing (and the ones who want to put limits on it get hit with some hard truth bombs that clearly give them a lot to think about).

 

Edited June 30, 2015 by Eegah

[dcalley]

Tonight's Frontline is "Growing Up Trans."

 

An intimate look at the struggles and choices facing transgender kids and their families.

[Wax Lion]

Demary's tweet strikes me ass oddly misdirected since it seems angry that a lot of people don't educate them on important issues until John features them.

 

I can get the frustration but why express bitterness that people are now paying attention to these issues? I mean, I'm aware of most of the issues highlighted on LWT and I'm thrilled to see them explained so well (and entertainingly) and hopeful that something will be accomplished from it. Is Demary looking down on people for leaning about these issues from a comedy show with crude language instead of reading the right kind of journals?

 

It kinda feels like "I was caring about all those issues before John Oliver made them cool."

[peeayebee]

I think it's just like the bit that Jessica did on TDS where black issues only get attention when white people bring them up. 

[Darian]

I don't know. I read Demary's responses and it was pretty much him enjoying pissing off "white progressives." Nothing constructive. Different motivation than Williams, and much poorer execution. Maybe he blogs in a different manner, and actually addresses this issue, but the Twitter responses don't make me inclined to go find out. 

[OneWhoLurks]

House Speaker Tim Moore called for a special session Thursday, saying more than three-fifths of his chamber’s members will eagerly rush to Raleigh to slap down a Charlotte city ordinance allowing transgender people to choose the restroom that matches their gender identity.

 

Moore acknowledged that reconvening the legislature less than two months ahead of the short session beginning April 25 is expensive. To justify the cost, he alluded to the fallacy that open-access bathrooms create a public danger.

 

 

https://yourdailyjournal.com/opinion/editorials/23452/our-view-fear-not-fact-fuels-vote-on-transgender-bathroom-access

[OneWhoLurks]

With only two weeks left in the Kansas legislation session, state lawmakers have introduced a pair of bills that would prohibit transgender students from using restrooms that match their gender. The “Student Physical Privacy Act” would apply not only to public schools, but all public universities in the state as well, guaranteeing that anyone who saw someone transgender in the bathroom could sue their school for $2,500 for every time that it happened.

 

[...]

 

One of the only lawmakers to speak out in favor of the bills is Sen. Mary Pilcher-Cook ®, who insists, “Parents have reached out afraid for their children’s safety and they do not want attention for fear of being called a bigot, this legislation ensures accommodations, while still protecting everyone’s privacy rights.”

 

According to Rep. Stephanie Clayton ®, the bills are a distraction from the larger budget priorities still facing the legislature this session. “No matter how you feel on the issue,” she said, “this demonstrates a distinct lack of focus.”

 

That doesn’t mean they couldn’t pass, however. Kansas lawmakers already passed an anti-LGBT bill that targets college student groups. Under that legislation, even if the university has an LGBT-inclusive nondiscrimination policy on the books, it must still recognize and support student groups that wish to discriminate against LGBT students. That would mean that LGBT students would pay student fees that would then go to organizations that they would not have equal access to joining. That legislation passed 30-8 in the Senate last year and then 80-39 by the House this year before being sent to Gov. Sam Brownbeck ® for his signature last Friday.

 

 

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/03/22/3762490/kansas-transgender-ransom-bathrooms/