Narcos - General Discussion

[eejm]

I've long found Pablo Escobar's story a horrifically fascinating one.  I grew up with news about his reign (he was killed when I was a senior in high school), and I read a biography of him last year.  I'd heard that a series was being made about him, but I didn't realize it was out until I saw a review of Narcos last week.

 

Holy crap, that was incredible!  I binge watched the entire series over the weekend.  The dialogue was tight, the Steven's voiceovers were helpful in reading between the lines on the cartel's operations, there was the perfect amount of grittiness, and the acting was for the most part excellent.  I'm wondering if the plan has always been for the series only to last a couple of seasons, because we've got to be covered so much of Escobar's reign already that for the show to last 6-7 season it would almost have to turn into a reboot of 24.  

Despite streaming in the summer and not getting the hype that other Netflix shows, I really hope Wagner Moura gets some award recognition for his performance throughout all of this.  We've still got a few months left, but I'm pretty sure he's going to go down as one of my favorite performances this year.

 

Me too.  He was the perfect choice and damn, did he play Pablo cold.  I know he's been involved in some high profile Brazilian movies and shows, but I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing Moura in more American offerings if he's interested.

Edited September 8, 2015 by eejm

[eejm]

Are we supposed to assume that Moncada and Galeano did "lose" the shipment, sell it, and bury the money?  Or was Pablo just so paranoid, cooped up, and angry about what Judy said that he just wanted to believe it?  I thought that Steve's explanation about not all of Blackbeard the Accountant's treasure being found indicated the Moncada and Galeano were telling the truth, but the fact that $3 million was the exact price of the shipment and both were annoyed with the "tax" made me wonder if they actually did hide the money.  Or perhaps it really didn't matter, but it showed just how sloppy Pablo had become?

 

I've got to say it - the actor who played Moncada did a great job, but he looks so much like Louis CK.  It's a good thing he never wore a black t-shirt.  Funny - the actor actually played Gustavo Gaviria in another series about Escobar that was done a few years ago.  

[eejm]

Glad that they finally, well, got Gacha.  Interesting that there was talk about trying to get him alive to flip on Pablo, but Javier chose to just let the guy kill him instead.  Even though they didn't spell it out, I wonder if part of it was him remembering what Gacha did to Helena.  Either way, a good victory for him and Carrillo, and I'm glad Gacha's equally violent son went with him.  Credit to Luis Guzman though: I'm so use to him in comedic roles, that it was great seeing play someone who just so, so evil.

 

Of course, the victory isn't for long, since Pablo just blew up an entire plane in a failed attempt to get Cesar.  And I thought the way he casually was tallying up how many deaths Poison was racking was stone-cold: the way he played Jaime was brutal, but impressive. It's really scary how Pablo seems to be able to manipulate people, and attract all types of followers.

 

Kind of wished we got more of Connie and Eliza on the run. 

 

Luis Guzman plays a real nasty character in Oz as well, if you're interested.  Brilliant show, very ahead of its time.

 

I cracked up when the first thing Gacha grabbed was his beloved missile launcher.  Hee.  A lot of good that did him.

 

I didn't even think about Pena ordering Gacha be killed in retaliation for Helena.  If so, she must have told him that it was Gacha who suspected she was a plant.  

[peggy06]

I had the opposite reaction to Pablo and Hermilda when they got the news about Gustavo. I felt no emotion for them; their tears were as crocodile tears to me. How many people went through this same grief because of them? How many true innocents? The whole family act narcissistic in the extreme; nothing they do is wrong, they are justified, only their own interests matter. Everyone and anyone else can die.

 

Escobar is so evil, so repellent, that emotions like this come off a hypocrisy.

[peggy06]

The former president and his wife were bugging me. I get that, as parents, they would want to do anything in their power to save their daughter. But holding the president hostage to a deal that would make a mockery of the government and the concept of justice is not what I would expect of a former head of state. Diana, on the other hand, was courageous.

 

Also, it maddens me when Escobar blames the political class for turning him into a monster. He was always a monster, so the "great things" he was going to do for Colombia would likely never have come to pass. His primary agenda would always have been self-aggrandizement. After all, he was rich enough that he could have done great things for the poor of Colombia without being in Congress. But he chose "revenge" instead. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by peggy06

[peggy06]

This show was somewhat frustrating to me. The pilot grabbed me because of all the background on the rise of cocaine and the cartels, plus Wagner Moura's magnetism as Pablo Escobar. It kept getting better up to a point, that point being when delusional egomania overtook Pablo. I think it coincided with having the plane shot down, and killing the young guy and his family. It was bad enough for him to be a murderous thug, but when he started talking about himself as a victim, and justifying himself, it just aggravated the heck out of me. His equally delusional mother and wife also seriously bugged. Once Pablo was behind bars in his special-order jail, it got even worse. I sensed that they were trying to show Pablo's frustration or depression behind bars (even golden bars), with I guess some grief for Gustavo (though, as portrayed here, Escobar was far too self-involved to care about anybody else in any real sense). But Moura's performance suffered with too many moody shots. When he wasn't being moody, he was being so horrible, vindictive and such a hypocrite that it was not the least bit entertaining to watch his scenes. Although somewhat curious to see the story wrapped up, I'm not waiting for S2 with bated breath.

 

What I did like was a strong cast and, especially, that they had the Colombian characters speaking Spanish. That made a huge difference in terms of allowing those actors to become their characters. In addition, it added greatly to the sense of place and overall authenticity of the show - plus, I loved the sound of the Spanish dialogue. I also felt they did a decent job at showing how events affected Murphy's character. The scene with his wife, where he said "This is home," he looked and acted like he was unravelling.

 

Even if S2 hadn't been confirmed, I would have expected it on the basis of where they left the story. Also, at one point, Murphy's narration says that was the end for Carrillo "for now."

 

Count me among those who think Pena did give the stuff to Pacho's henchman. He didn't even try to deny it, and all his insistence about not telling the PTB about the kidnapping points in that direction.

Edited September 10, 2015 by peggy06

[millennium]

This story could have been wrapped up in 13 episodes.   Feeling a bit strung along that there's a Season 2.

 

I would have liked more screen time for Murphy and Pena.  

 

The actress who plays Valeria Velez is simply gorgeous.    And apparently so was Virginia Vallejo, the real life inspiration for the character.

 

I never paid much attention to the news during the years all this was happening.   It seems impossible now that an entire country could be at the mercy of a single drug lord while the whole world sat by and watched.    Of course, maybe 20-30 years now we'll be saying something similar about ISIS.   Narcos is an amazing story.

Edited September 10, 2015 by millennium

[Avaleigh]

That gang rape scene was one of the most awful things I've ever seen - the 'normalcy' of that was scary: no lunatic crowd or frat boys chanting, but guys playing cards and talking, then a sip of beer and raping the girl on the corner. That was a very very very sick scene.

 

The M-19 were no saints, so it is very hard to feel sorry for them or even sympathetic for their cause.

 

The dog killing is the kind of scene that has been played a hundred times, yet still shocks me, both in itself and the reaction.

They equate rape with "fun". They actually used that word several times. That was when I kind of had to disconnect and drift off into a happier place. I give the show credit for not really showing the rapes so that there isn't the claim that they're trying to be titillating. I thought it was crystal clear that the scene was supposed to be horrific on every level. 

 

I knew it was a bad idea for the wife to bring that cat. I won't be surprised if she's living on borrowed time either. 

 

I was glad that Escobar was pissed at that guy for killing the dog. Even he thinks that shit was fucked up and unnecessary. 

 

It kind of bums me out to see the jovial dude from Boogie Nights playing such an asshole. I totally thought he was going to be a different sort of character but he's a real slime ball. 

 

Those m-19 kids are out of their minds. I appreciated the voiceover explaining their mentality because that just seemed...beyond suicidal like their grandkids are going to feel the effects or something. 

[turbogirlnyc]

I was surprised at the end of this episode.  I watched part of a documentary on Pablo (Sins of My Father) and from what I recall,

he died in a raid similar to the one shown in episode 10

. Don't get me wrong, I liked the show very much and I'm looking forward to season 2. It's not as good as Peaky Blinders but I digress.

 

So the actor playing Pablo learned Spanish for this role? I'm shocked. I only know a little Spanish so he seemed like a pro to me. I wonder what course he took.

 

Pablo is indeed a monster but the show is portraying him a little sympathetically. Does anyone else think this?

 

Edited to add holy shit! Boyd Holbrook was Jeff in Gone Girl? I knew I recognized him from somewhere. He was great in GG even though he had a small role.

Edited September 11, 2015 by CuriousParker
Added Spoiler Tags

[turbogirlnyc]

Are we supposed to assume that Moncada and Galeano did "lose" the shipment, sell it, and bury the money?  Or was Pablo just so paranoid, cooped up, and angry about what Judy said that he just wanted to believe it?  I thought that Steve's explanation about not all of Blackbeard the Accountant's treasure being found indicated the Moncada and Galeano were telling the truth, but the fact that $3 million was the exact price of the shipment and both were annoyed with the "tax" made me wonder if they actually did hide the money.  Or perhaps it really didn't matter, but it showed just how sloppy Pablo had become?

 

I've got to say it - the actor who played Moncada did a great job, but he looks so much like Louis CK.  It's a good thing he never wore a black t-shirt.  Funny - the actor actually played Gustavo Gaviria in another series about Escobar that was done a few years ago.  

I didn't know what to make of the Moncada and Galeano situation either. That whole story line confused me. There was no previous indication that Moncada and Galeano were responsible for burying the money, correct? Maybe I missed something. Time for a re-watch.

[Avaleigh]

I thought Adan Canto was great too. It was both great and horrifying to listen to that speech because it was like watching somebody commit a noble suicide. The look that Escobar gave him I knew there was no way. Why didn't he wear the jacket? 

 

Valeria is a piece of work. What is she getting out of this?

 

It is crazy to think how far Escobar might have gone in politics. I liked how he described himself as a poor man with a lot of money. 

 

Another crazy little tidbit was learning that six out of nine of the football teams were drug owned.

 

The fleet of planes the Ochoas had? JFC these people had money to burn. 

[peggy06]

Yeah, the buried money was a puzzle. I could go either way. They reminded us about the caches of buried money that were still out there, but 3 million seems like such a particular sum to turn up. And it corresponded with the value of a lost shipment. And the two who are running things for Pablo are shown to be disgruntled about the tax. So Pablo's suspicion wasn't coming out of left field, but his reaction was extreme.

 

What was the deal with the tax, anyway? Other than Pablo trying to flex his power muscles and be greedy, what was the point of that? He's still getting the profits from the sales, right? 

 

In the hot tub scene with Kiki and Judy, you could see she was going to do something about it. She is not as smart as she thought. Insane to even broach that subject to Pablo. He can't stand even implicit criticism, and it planted a seed of distrust of Moncada and Galeano.

Edited September 11, 2015 by peggy06

[snowwhyte]

The actor playing Pablo is Brazil, I think I read, so while he did have to learn Spanish his native language is Portuguese which has enough similarities to Spanish to make an intensive language course easier. It is still an achievement to do so well acting in a foreign language.

[Avaleigh]

I laughed when Steve and Javier made eye contact and Javier is nervously pushing his pen in and out as he's thinking about Elisa. Javier so isn't slick. 

Oh, great.  Gacha's got a missile launcher, now.  I'm sure he'll totally handle that thing with care!

Where the hell is he getting his weapons? Did they mention it and I just missed it? I cringed when he talked about wanting nukes. It's like no fucking way, dude, absolutely not. These guys have way too much money if they can even entertain that idea.

 

Colombian politics are a nasty business. Who gets involved in that shit, it's so thankless. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. 

 

This show is really doing a good job at making me respect everyone who is trying to go after Pablo, especially the various politicians and non-corruptible cops.  The entire deck is stacked against them, and their lives and even their families' lives are always in danger, but they are the ones who see what Pablo is, and just can't stand by.  Even if it ends in their deaths, it's good to see some who want to stop him.

It's fascinating. I admire and respect them but I'm also so damned worried for them that I almost want them to take the money because they're the good guys so I feel like they deserve it. 

 

I loved, loved, loved the phone call scene between Escobar and that incorruptible Colonel (I don't have everyone's name yet) because it was the first time I've seen Escobar seem like he's legitimately scared. His taunting sounded more childish than scary and he's at a loss when he's confronted with someone who isn't swayed by money and can handle himself with the proverbial sword. It's pretty awesome. But hell, I don't want the Colonel's family to get killed just so that he can show Escobar what an incorruptible bad ass he is.

 

Another great scene was the Colonel telling his superior and some other guy that he, quite frankly, has no idea whether they're on the take or not. 

 

When he said he needed men who can't be corrupted I'm just thinking, yeah, okay great, where do you find a big supply of that especially when we've established how difficult it is for most people to not be swayed to be on Escobar's side. The only thing I can think is that they'd have to select people who have directly suffered at the hands of Escobar and even then that could be a slippery slope because if these people have seen first hand the worst of what he can do then some of them will already want to do practically anything to keep from getting involved because they've seen for themselves how horribly that can shake out. 

 

I find this show to be incredibly fascinating and complex and ended up watching three episodes in a row last night. 

[Jade Foxx]

Just binged this season in two days. Absolutely RIVETING. I knew *of* Pablo Escobar, of course - but not the blow by blow. (heh)

 

I was a teenager in the 80's, when the CIA allowed cocaine to flood into Los Angeles (the Contra scandal and all that) and was engulfed in my own surroundings and survival. It's mind-blowing as an adult, to get insight into what was going on with the big time drug cartels & politics in Columbia. 

 

I only knew of the "mythical" Pablo Escobar - did not realize he was a charismatic psychopath!

 

Bring on Season Two.

[turbogirlnyc]

Yeah, the buried money was a puzzle. I could go either way. They reminded us about the caches of buried money that were still out there, but 3 million seems like such a particular sum to turn up. And it corresponded with the value of a lost shipment. And the two who are running things for Pablo are shown to be disgruntled about the tax. So Pablo's suspicion wasn't coming out of left field, but his reaction was extreme.

 

What was the deal with the tax, anyway? Other than Pablo trying to flex his power muscles and be greedy, what was the point of that? He's still getting the profits from the sales, right? 

 

In the hot tub scene with Kiki and Judy, you could see she was going to do something about it. She is not as smart as she thought. Insane to even broach that subject to Pablo. He can't stand even implicit criticism, and it planted a seed of distrust of Moncada and Galeano.

 

I understand the buried money much better after reading your post. I suppose Moncada and Galeano did hide the money? They sure as heck paid for it.

 

I don't understand the tax either. Something about covering expenses while Pablo is in jail, But isn't Pablo as rich as Croesus?

[Sheenieb]

 

IDK, I want to love this show because everyone else does, and it's supposed to be the next great Netflix show. But I only watch one episode per night and I've fallen asleep twice. Mostly I just hate Pablo and am frustrated that he acts like he's the one with a beef. Like, he's entitled to sell drugs and anyone who wants to stop him is evil. I feel like the show itself portrays this, because he so easily and ruthlessly gets rid of anybody in his way. I don't know how much more of this I can watch.

Thing is, real life Pablo was exactly like that.  The show isn't making any of this up.  He had pipe political dreams, and was dead ass serious in his letters to Gaviria about anti-extradition. Narcos is making me want to re-read Finding Pablo since they've done such a good job with Pablo's diabolical nature, yet, his tenderness towards his family.

[Avaleigh]

Jesus, this show is fucking brutal. I kind of love it even though I feel like I've just been through some sort of emotional ordeal.

 

Gacha's last stand was exciting. I kept yelling for them to take this prick down already. I too got a kick out of him using the missile launcher for all the good it did him and his son.

 

I had absolutely no sympathy for the son even though he was scared. I can't believe he shot that woman because she refused to have sex with him. I hated too that Gacha didn't even make him back off in any real way. They just think that any woman who is in their sight is theirs for the taking unless the woman happens to be a wife, daughter, or maybe mistress of one of their guys and even then it's up in the air.

 

I knew that kid was dead meat when he got those clothes and he and his wife/girlfriend were so happy. The way the other two guys kept exchanging looks and how they clearly felt uncomfortable was kind of sad. Even they're a little grossed out but feel like there isn't anything they can do. The kid was so eager and willing and stupidly innocent it's amazing to me that Escobar didn't so much as blink about sending some kid who clearly idolizes him to his death on top of having the world have the kid be forever labeled as a douchebag terrorist. It's so sad and upsetting, Jeez, I hope Escobar at least gives the wife and kid a decent lump sum. 

 

I sort of wish that they'd questioned Gacha before killing him. A quick death seems so merciful when I think about the reign of terror he inflicted on people. And animals. 

 

It seems that the real life Gacha committed suicide after seeing his son get killed in the showdown that was depicted in the show. He gave himself a grenade in the face. Not only that but it seems that thousands of people attended this guy's funeral because of how generous he could be with money. 

 

It's interesting too to see the ages of some of the figures depicted on the show. Gacha for example was only 42 when he died and the actor playing him has to be way older. He seemed like he was forty something back when he was in the movie Boogie Nights.

[Avaleigh]

I don't know how after seven episodes I can still be surprised at the brutality of these assholes but good lord, the baby scene had me on my feet I was so fucking upset. I honestly thought that the baby would accidentally catch a bullet from one of the other guys because they didn't know that she was there.

 

Poison is just evil. It wasn't even logical. He's like Todd from Breaking Bad, a disturbing lack of emotion in addition to seeming like he takes everything literally. I don't think Escobar would have forced them to kill the baby. Meanwhile I was hoping that the other guy would point out that the baby looked perfectly happy--clearly had no idea that her mother was dead and had just been killed by them. She had no idea what was going on and it was shocking to me that this didn't register at all with poison. All he thinks about is following what he thinks his orders are. 

 

The conversation that his partner had with him too about whether or not he would shoot him if Pablo gave him the order was interesting because even though the other guy would likely shoot Poison if he were given the order he doesn't want to think about it or say it out loud. I totally imagine Posion's partner not being able to go to sleep that night. It's like it was the first time he realized (how did he not get it before?) that he's working with total jackals.

 

I hoped that Steve and Connie would get the baby. The one good thing to come out of that awful situation. So far I haven't had any issue with the minimal presence of Connie. 

 

I've been meaning to address the selfish, jealous, and unsympathetic Valeria. What a bitch to just plant the idea for Escobar to kidnap her rival. She disgusts me.

I can't believe the real life woman got a bunch of money from writing a book about her dealings Escobar. It totally grosses me out.

Diana doesn't even know that she was kidnapped in part because that selfish cow was hating on her. 

[Maysie]

I listened to an interview with someone involved with the production of Narcos on On Point (NPR) last week. The other guest was an expert in cocaine trafficking. It was a fascinating interview and it's what made me watch the show. From what I took away from the interview,

I believe the series is going to progress beyond Escobar and cover the major cocaine traffickers up to El Chapo. I don't know if that's a hope or a plan, but my takeaway is that Pablo Escobar is just part of the story in Narcos.

 

Another interesting part of the interview was when someone called in who lived in a condo in the same neighborhood as the Monarch when the car bomb went off (making Pablo's daughter deaf in one ear). She wasn't there at the time, but her brother was in the building next door or across the street or somewhere near by. They were giddy with excitement to talk to a woman that used to live in the same neighborhood as Escobar.

[Maysie]

That poor baby! This episode I noticed that I was watching the show all tensed up - almost on the edge of my seat.

 

I was disappointed that the ex-President took the position he did, but father of the child before father of the country, I suppose. Plus, his advice had to come back to bite him in the ass.

[Avaleigh]

These people really do suck. Diana didn't deserve that. When the baby was in the line of fire I feared the worst but somehow I honestly thought that Diana would be rescued and everything would be fine. Fuck. 

 

I felt awful for her parents. They really did do everything they could. (I looked her up and sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Apparently her parents were uncle and niece and were still married by the CAtholic Church. I guess it's because Leviticus doesn't mention uncle/niece unions as being forbidden. Like some shit out the book of the Spanish Hapsburgs.)

 

I enjoyed the scene where they find out about Gustavo but agree with the sentiment that these people are unsympathetic. They're finally taking some real hits and they can't take it. This is less than a percent of the grief they've inflicted on people. His mother knows perfectly well that her nephew was a killer along with her golden son. She's in denial about stuff like the plane bombing but even the wife has told her what's up. They know. They're living off of blood money and they want to pretend that it isn't true. It's fascinating to watch but it doesn't make me feel sad for them. 

 

I understand Gustavo telling those guys to fuck off. He knew his life was done. It was almost touching to see that loyalty among men like that because I doubt that it's all that common. No honor among thieves and all that. I will too admit to being somewhat touched that Pablo made sure Gustavo's body had an honor guard and that he was buried in the mountains they enjoyed as kids. I'm not saying that Gustavo deserved it or that Pablo is a nice guy underneath it all, but I did admittedly respond to those moments.  

 

I know it isn't their baby but I'm going to be royally ticked if they dump that kid at a fire station or something. 

[Maysie]

I didn't think they hid the money and I think it was just a coincidence that it was about what was missing from the stolen shipment. I thought Steve's voiceover did a pretty good job of recalling the buried money, the guy who found it, how it found its way to Pablo, etc. (And I'm really glad they did that because I had forgotten about the buried cash). Also, Moncada and Galeano didn't act at all nervous or guilty about the money. I figure they knew exactly what Pablo was capable of and if they had taken his $3,000,000 and felt like he was on to them, they would have been nervous where his line of questioning was going.

 

There were millions and millions buried out there and if that money hadn't belonged to Escobar I'm sure all kinds of people would have been out there with shovels. But my impression from the voiceover is that people kind of knew it was out there but no one dared do anything about it because it was Pablo's money and who was going to fuck with a man who took out an entire plane of innocent people?

 

Makes you wonder what happened to all that cash. Who dug it up and when? And did they get it all?

[Avaleigh]

I didn't think that Galeano and Moncado buried the money. For one thing, why wouldn't they divide it straight away? You'd think that they'd whack it up between the two of them and that a month and a half's worth of tax. I was glad that Kiko at least basically told Pablo to go fuck himself if he doesn't trust them after everything that they've put up with from him. 

 

Kiko's wife was out of her mind. Probably the drugs she was doing that gave her the confidence to think that would be a good idea. Tata is cold as ice too. I don't feel sorry for any of the drug people. They all suck in different ways. 

 

Interesting that even a luxury jail is still a prison at the end of the day and feels like one to Pablo. He's clearly restless. Still, if I had to do time that would certainly be the way to do it. I cracked up at the roulette table and the chef being there preparing food. Lobster and alcohol, movies, all kinds of visitors, enough people around for variety to play sports--it could definitely have been worse. Pablo had it better in jail than the guys in the movie Goodfellas.

 

Another thing that made me laugh was seeing the figure of Pablo on top of that cake and it doesn't have a gut. There were actually a few small funny moments in this episode, like the way he takes that big whiff of marijuana before putting some in his pocket. I guess he likes it. ;) Also darkly funny was Kiko's wife saying that she and Kiko were trying to have another baby, like that's the only lie she thought might connect with Tata and Pablo's mom. Only thing is they clearly know this woman and I'm sure they were thinking 'yeah, okay honey.'

 

I wonder how long that cash was there. I thought it looked like it was in pretty good condition considering they didn't wrap it too well.I guess it shows the power and fear the masses have of these guys that not only did the farmer return the money but he didn't even take a tiny taste for himself. 

[Avaleigh]

I'm definitely looking forward to the second season. 

 

I was slightly underwhelmed by the finale in comparison to the other episodes but still enjoyed it very much. 

 

I feel like an idiot for not realizing that Javier set Steve up. 

 

I have no idea why but I totally think that Javier and Connie are going to fuck at some point. I couldn't say what gave me that impression but I know it wasn't anything on her end. 

 

Sad that Steve can't/won't tell Connie the truth about why they can't go home. 

 

I almost wish they'd taken a bit more time with Escobar's rise. I find it all fascinating. I don't really think that he's being portrayed all that sympathetically either. I think he's horrible and evil and that's all definitely coming across for me. Him getting all sad over Gustavo doesn't changed a goddamned thing for me. 

[Maysie]

 

I was glad that Kiko at least basically told Pablo to go fuck himself if he doesn't trust them after everything that they've put up with from him.

 

Yeah, it was definitely gratifying to see that.

 

Another reason I don't think they stole the money is because of an earlier scene when one of them beat Pablo at a game of pool; Pablo paid up and then raised their tax. Kiki made a comment along the lines of "wtf not letting the boss win??" That implies to me that they know not to mess with Pablo's money. Of course, that may have added fuel to Pablo's fire that they did take his money - if one dares to beat him at pool, who knows what he's capable of?

 

It was interesting to see how it was in prison. During fun and games it seems that the guys would forget their roles and lapse into guy behavior, such as when Poison knocked Pablo down during the soccer game. But Pablo never forgot who he was.

 

 

Interesting that even a luxury jail is still a prison at the end of the day and feels like one to Pablo. He's clearly restless. Still, if I had to do time that would certainly be the way to do it. I cracked up at the roulette table and the chef being there preparing food. Lobster and alcohol, movies, all kinds of visitors, enough people around for variety to play sports--it could definitely have been worse. Pablo had it better in jail than the guys in the movie Goodfellas.

 

I was thinking of Goodfellas too - especially Paul Sorvino slicing garlic with a razor blade. Gangsters are the same, no matter where they are, I guess.

[peggy06]

I understand the buried money much better after reading your post. I suppose Moncada and Galeano did hide the money? They sure as heck paid for it.

 

I don't understand the tax either. Something about covering expenses while Pablo is in jail, But isn't Pablo as rich as Croesus?

Right, that's why it seems like he was just doing it as a power play. 

[peggy06]

Thing is, real life Pablo was exactly like that.  The show isn't making any of this up.  He had pipe political dreams, and was dead ass serious in his letters to Gaviria about anti-extradition. Narcos is making me want to re-read Finding Pablo since they've done such a good job with Pablo's diabolical nature, yet, his tenderness towards his family.

Did he really think he could be in Congress or even President, while running a huge cocaine racket? The mind boggles.

[Human]

We're talking about a criminal who was a self-centered narcissist and thought the world owed him.  He had a Messiah complex.  He was idolized in the streets.  He really had no reason to think that he couldn't be in politics since he had never before been confronted about his criminal enterprise.  He thought himself above everyone else.  This sort of personality isn't unusual.  Netflix isn't 'portraying' him a certain way just because he was ruthless.  He was so ruthless because he was such a narcissist who lacked empathy.  

[Maysie]

 

Did he really think he could be in Congress or even President, while running a huge cocaine racket? The mind boggles.

 

Yes, I believe he did. It's a matter of believing your own press - in his case as the modern day Robin Hood of Columbia. Don't forget the people loved him before they hated him because he essentially bought them off with housing and such. Consider that modern day terrorist organizations do the same thing in the middle east, such as Hezbollah. It's part of a strategy of buying support.

[Avaleigh]

We're talking about a criminal who was a self-centered narcissist and thought the world owed him.  He had a Messiah complex.  He was idolized in the streets.  He really had no reason to think that he couldn't be in politics since he had never before been confronted about his criminal enterprise.  He thought himself above everyone else.  This sort of personality isn't unusual.  Netflix isn't 'portraying' him a certain way just because he was ruthless.  He was so ruthless because he was such a narcissist who lacked empathy.  

This 100%. 

 

It's totally believable to me that he'd be deluded enough into thinking that he's a man of the people based on the way people treat him. Seriously, I mean, people had images of this guy on their walls looking like Jesus. He's throwing parties where he's giving the local poor people wads of cash. He knows the ins and outs of his guys and is doing things like paying for medical care for loads of families. 

 

It's crazy and sad but it isn't hard at all for me to believe that this guy could have had a future in politics if he'd been successful in suppressing x, y, and z. 

[Human]

I was a bit reluctant to watch this because Pablo Escobar is so overdone.  I also figured that since we all know the major plot points and the ending, there would be no sense of suspense or anticipation.  But this was really good.  Amazing, in fact.  I especially liked that there is focus on how America, Reagan specifically, helped to create these terrible drug lords and the drug wars that followed.  

 

I do wish that they had finished up Escobar's story in the finale, but I guess I can understand that they felt they might need a 'hook' to make sure people return next season.  I hope they don't spend too much time on him next season and instead move on to the next major narco.  

[Sheenieb]

I believe the series is going to progress beyond Escobar and cover the major cocaine traffickers up to El Chapo. I don't know if that's a hope or a plan, but my takeaway is that Pablo Escobar is just part of the story in Narcos.

That would make sense since the show's leading up to Pablo's death.  Anyone here ever checked out Cocaine Cowboys? If so, I hope the show focuses on Griselda Blanco. Most Narco shows focus on men since they're usually in charge, but Griselda deserves her own story as well since she was just as psycho as Pablo.

[gryphon]

I hate when they kill animals.  Not sure if I'm up for the rest of the series....body count is very high, but when they kill animals?  SO not a fan.  That stuff haunts me. I expect people to be shot and stuff--it's about drug dealers, after all.  

[MarysWetBar]

Just binged and watched over the weekend and really loved this show! The actor portraying Escobar is amazingly charismatic. I knew Gustavo would die without saying a word for the cops. I was underwhelmed by Murphy and didn't even care when Pachos men grabbed him quite honestly. .haha

Loved his partner tho, who seems to get it that you need to be dirty to take down dirty men.

Does anyone know what the plan is for this show? Will they focus on different Narcos and have just started off with the most notorious one?

Edited September 15, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[knaankos]

Yeah like the previous two posters said I am interested to see how they continue this show. Will we start with new Narcos after Escobar? The Cali Cartel rise? Will we even go as far as the current day kingpin El Chapo?

[MarysWetBar]

Yeah, the buried money was a puzzle. I could go either way. They reminded us about the caches of buried money that were still out there, but 3 million seems like such a particular sum to turn up. And it corresponded with the value of a lost shipment. And the two who are running things for Pablo are shown to be disgruntled about the tax. So Pablo's suspicion wasn't coming out of left field, but his reaction was extreme.

What was the deal with the tax, anyway? Other than Pablo trying to flex his power muscles and be greedy, what was the point of that? He's still getting the profits from the sales, right?

In the hot tub scene with Kiki and Judy, you could see she was going to do something about it. She is not as smart as she thought. Insane to even broach that subject to Pablo. He can't stand even implicit criticism, and it planted a seed of distrust of Moncada and Galeano.

I think it hurt his pride to have her yapping about his petty tax in front of his family like that. I almost think that bothered him far worse than losing the three mill. Edited September 18, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[benteen]

Wow, what was going on in Colombia during the 80s was insane.  Things really heated up in this episode.  I was frustrated how Steve and Javier couldn't get the resources they needed.

[catrox14]

I have to admit, I had a little moment where I thought, "Well, shit. If maybe he had stayed in politics his drug empire might not have become what it did".  And then I thought "WTF is wrong with me!?"

 

So far really enjoying this and glad to see Pedro Pascal again. Quite impressed with Wagner Moura.

[catrox14]

Holy shit. That was shocking. I had NO idea Escobar's reach went to bombing of planes. Damn. That poor kid :(.  Wow. 

[Vicky8675309]

awesome series! The best shows have "grey" characters. Sure, some were more good than bad but corruption of the good guys juxtaposed with the badness of the villains was fascinating and realistic. Sure, Escobar was a monster but at times (rare) the character was sympathetic (lol, for a terrorist). The war on drugs…lol. Nancy's "just say no" brings back memories.

For some reason Netflix or my computer would have the dialogue off synch from the video but that was a quick fix with backing it up by a few seconds or refreshing.

I wish season 2 was ready for viewing!

Edited September 27, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I agree that Steve Murphy is kinda bland right now. I like his voice-overs better than his actual scenes - they VOs are well-written and well-voiced. But the actor playing Escobar is the star, one of those actors who just dominate their scenes.

I agree that his voiceovers are great but that his actual scenes are kind of meh right now. I am willing to give him a pass for now but hopefully he shows more as the series goes on. To be fair, it's only right that the actor playing Escobar is an attention grabber while the actor playing a DEA agent is not since that is appropriate for the characters themselves.

 

The first episode did a good job giving a lot of background information in a clear unconfusing way. Sometimes with pilots there is way too much info and too many characters crammed in and it can be overwhelming. Even though there were a lot of people and there was a lot happening, I didn't feel like I was getting overloaded. Glad I finally have the time to watch this show! I know I'm way behind everyone else but I knew I was going to be out of town a couple of times right around the time that Netflix released the show and I didn't want to have to start and then stop watching until I got back.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wouldn't say the pilot was all rainbows and butterflies but compared to this episode where we suddenly got bombarded with a dog being shot, multiple murders, gang rape, and a cat being hung, suddenly the pilot seems so much less intense. I know there have been a lot of complaints about torture porn on other shows but in the case of narcos, we know we are not being shown violence for the sake of violence. They are showing us what these people were doing to others, what the price of the drug cartel was. At least Pablo was visibly upset by the poor dog being shot.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Justice for Puff! I loved that his partner insisted that it was a DEA cat that was killed.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Elisa was smart to get the hell out of there. Part of me was just shaking my head because her boyfriend really believed that Pablo was just going to hand him $2 million and that sword. I mean, I guess considering that Pablo's cocaine business was bring in millions of dollars a day, $2 million was a drop in the bucket for him, but still. After M-19 burned all those files, I thought man, I bet the Columbians wish they had let the Americans make some copies.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Of course, this episode would kick off with Javier and Elisa already in bed together.  Oh, Javier.  This isn't healthy, man.

No kidding. It's like Javier can't be within ten feet of a woman without his penis entering her.

 

If Pablo were a fictional character, his sense of entitlement and victimhood would almost be funny but knowing that he's a real person who actually felt like he was the one who was so put upon is scary and sad. How dare anyone try to interfere with his cocaine business? And it's not like that Bon Jovi skit from SNL ("just two guys from Jersey with a dream") - he was making $60 million A DAY. He had more money than he could possibly spend as a result of the drug trade, yet he's acting like he was the victim when he was the one who was bullying everyone and murdering people left and right.

[Anela]

I watched this the other night. Ugh, the animals being killed, the girl being gang-raped... that was a really tough episode to watch. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Justice for Puff! I loved that his partner insisted that it was a DEA cat that was killed.

This is exactly why they made such a big deal out of it: the drug gangs have to know that DEA agents are 100% off limits, and that includes their property and pets.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Bringing up the tax in front of Pablo: Dumb. Really dumb.

Bringing it up in the context of "Our vacation to the Bahamas wasn't quite as nice as we would have liked because Kiko has to pay you so much" when Pablo is in PRISON (albeit a damn nice one): Monumentally, insanely stupid.
 

It rang multiple alarm bells with him including Kiko telling his wife about business (which Pablo never did) and meant that either Kiko couldn't control his wife (which would strike him as unmanly and weak) or even worse, Kiko was deliberately sending her to complain about it in front of others (which would strike him as unmanly and duplicitous).

 

Of course, she realized all this and tried to walk it back, but it was too little, too late. Lady Macbeth she ain't.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I wonder if Pablo's reading of the situation was correct, i.e. thinking President Gaviria never expected him to politely decline Sandoval's offer and let him leave, but rather assumed Pablo would either accept the offer and leave with Sandoval, or kill/kidnap Sandoval (which would justify Gaviria sending in the troops without breaking his agreement).

 

Gaviria seemed surprised that Sandoval had been taken hostage, but maybe that was just him putting on a show to his subordinates. The head officer was insistent that his orders had been to merely secure the perimeter, which lends credence to the idea that Gaviria wanted Sandoval to go in himself. Also, the two soldiers Sandoval brought in as bodyguards suddenly refused to let him leave when they saw Pablo coming out.