S05.E01: Denial

[yeswedo]

Pearson Specter Litt has scored a hard-fought victory, but the fight has left the firm shaken. Although she avoided jail time, Donna has left Harvey, after more than a decade of working together. She is now working for his long-time rival Louis. And while Jessica readjusts to being single, Mike and Rachel are giddy after his marriage proposal.

[CaptainCranky]

I'm ready for the new season. Hope they keep the convoluted plots to a minimum this time.

 

I predict Donna will be back with Harvey in no less than 3 shows.

Edited June 22, 2015 by CaptainCranky

[33kaitykaity]

Oh, it's taking too long, I can't freaking wait!  Minus Rachel/Mike, of course.  The actor who plays Mike isn't nearly good enough IMHO.  

 

I wouldn't bet against Donna back with Harvey either.  

[edhopper]

I hate the "going to therapy Harvey"

[atir]

What is wrong with H's lapels?

[33kaitykaity]

I think I cried a couple of times, the maneuvers and tricks and oops maneuvers never stopped, thanks to all, but, damn, I still love how they dress these women, Rachel and Donna and Jessica.  Gabriel Macht isn't nearly a good enough actor to carry the supposed psychic pain he's feeling for losing Donna.  I can't help but see his father, Stephen Macht, who has made his name/face in every single SF show I have ever watched.  Do not pull my strings with poor Louis losing again.  Louis can't lose again that soon or we're all going to lose interest in any possible means that would rest with being with Louis Litt.  

 

So let the games begin.  

Edited June 25, 2015 by 33kaitykaity

[sluggish neko]

I skipped out last season, but I decided to check in to see how they handled the Harvey/Donna work break-up. Glad to see that she's still awesome. And Louis looks so happy to have her working with him! Harvey's acting like he lost his security blanket instead of his girl Friday. I really hope she doesn't go back to him anytime soon.

 

I could have done without that whole Harvey therapy framing device. We can see that Harvey is having anxiety attacks (Gabriel Macht isn't that limited an actor) and that he's in denial about Donna leaving him without him having to say it or having every other character say it... over and over again.

 

Unfortunately, Rachel/Mike still don't interest me. I find them even more boring than before.

[NJ RadioGuy]

Not feelin' it this season. I wish they'd just go back to status quo, stop the relationship melodramas for a while and focus on some interesting cases. Preferably stories that only take 2 or 3 weeks to tell. I don't like the dysfuctional firm that's misfiring because this one or that one or those two are damaged. It's fun to see the whole Scooby Team kick ass and take names.

[Nanrad]

I think GM is playing his panic attacks/anxiety well. IMO, there is a noticeable difference between Harvey's normal face and him freaking out. 

 

I enjoyed the episode, but I was miffed about a few things.

 

I love Louis' character and, occasionally, I feel sympathetic for him, BUT sometimes I think he brings it on himself. Louis continuously tries to take poach people that Harvey is close with all while knowing that Harvey only keeps a few people close, just because he wants what Harvey has. IF he doesn't want to feel burned by people leaving him, he needs to stop trying to go after people Harvey has close relationships with. It's not like people who were originally with him first are leaving to go to Harvey; nope, it's people who Harvey has let into his inner circle who considered working with Louis, and then went back to Harvey. 

[vibeology]

That was a lot of angst for a secretary taking an new job 20 feet away. The way they wrote and  shot the first panic attack was very much like the episode of the West Wing where 

Josh is dealing with getting shot.

And this is no where near as serious a situation. So much drama for "and then I vomited." If Harvey can't handle Donna taking another job, he is too much of a mess to be working. Also, I was so annoyed when they showed Harvey flushing the case for those pills down the toilet. Someone will have to fix that.

 

I did love that Mike told Rachel its not her job to become Harvey's secretary. Women so often fall into a caretaking and administrative role and with Rachel skipping a test doing that can really limit her. 

 

 

I love Louis' character and, occasionally, I feel sympathetic for him, BUT sometimes I think he brings it on himself. Louis continuously tries to take poach people that Harvey is close with all while knowing that Harvey only keeps a few people close, just because he wants what Harvey has. IF he doesn't want to feel burned by people leaving him, he needs to stop trying to go after people Harvey has close relationships with. It's not like people who were originally with him first are leaving to go to Harvey; nope, it's people who Harvey has let into his inner circle who considered working with Louis, and then went back to Harvey. 

 

This. Louis fixates on Harvey too much and sets himself up to be disappointed over and over. He really needs to find a way to gain his sense of approval from within and stop relying on a comparison with Harvey. Donna telling him that when he's feeling insecure they need to talk about it is a good start. I don't doubt that Donna will eventually end up back with Harvey, but hopefully Louis will be in a better place by the time that happens.

[Good Queen Jane]

Memo to Show: A legal secretary and a paralegal have two very different skill sets. There is no way Rachel could take over Donna's job, even temporarily, nor is there any way that the firm would want her to (paralegals bill for their time; secretaries do not.)

 

Also, unless things have changed drastically since I was in law school (which admittedly was a long time ago), tests are only given once or sometimes twice a course and count for your entire grade. Missing a test is a really big deal.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Good Queen Jane

[TeapotWakeen]

Dear Suits:  Can we please lose Rachel? The character sucks. The storyline sucks. Buh-bye.  Pretty please???

[Nanrad]

Rachel is okay to me when the story line doesn't focus on her.

 

Vibe, I think if Donna had been any other secretary who'd been with him as long, Harvey wouldn't have had that much of an issue. But, Donna has always been more than a secretary and not because she's so awesome, but because he's in love with her, has abandonment/trust issues, and they're co-dependent on one another in both small and large ways. Since he was afraid to lose her, he was fine at loving her from a distance as long as she was in his life--meaning secretary. They interacted with one another all day. With her being Louis' secretary, he may not see her often and, as he said and as we already knew, he doesn't handle change well. 

 

And Donna is like his family, despite the limitedness of how much they see each other outside of work. She's been there for him for his father's death and is aware of what is going on with his family life--has a familiarity. For Harvey, that's big because he doesn't share much, but Donna's knowledge and the way Harvey trusts her with personal info shows that she encompassed many roles in his life and her departure shook him to his core.

[marcee]

His panic attacks have nothing to do with his "secretary" leaving. As Nanrad said, he's in love with her and he's never had to deal with these emotions. Her "leaving" him is not at all about her job skills but more along the lines of terminating a relationship. She's distancing herself from him so she won't get hurt - but, in doing so, she's forcing him to deal with emotions he's obviously not ready to handle. THAT'S what's causing the panic attacks. It's like a marriage breaking up -- even if the wife is only moving next door.

Edited June 25, 2015 by marcee

[romantic idiot]

I'm going to be horrible, but seriously, Rachel did drop the ball and they hurt their client. She missed a test and it was very generous of her, but how do you not check if an entire document has printed? I mean, seriously?

 

Moreover Mike didn't take a look at the list with his eidetic memory to see if that all the names were there? They handed over sight unseen? And they needed a printed list? What, these corporations don't have email? What was that about?

 

Am I the only one thinking the therapist will be back? And I can't help thinking it will be nice if Harvey gets a new male secretary (though they do have too few women now). 

[kahauna]

I just got Dish installed last Sunday after having ditched Comcast seven months ago. I SO looked forward to last night's episode and....WTFFFFFF??!!?? Everyone is going on about Harvey handling/not handling no Donna . Well, I can't see Donna working too long with Louis...seriously. Even "Well...I'm Donna" is forced and awkward, and I just know that sooner or later - most likely sooner - Louis is going to somehow screw the pooch so badly in court, or just be a total dick to Donna one time too many, and then Donna will reconsider her choices and come back to Harvey post haste.

The showrunners here are pissing me off as much as Plageman and Nolan with Person of Interest.

Edited June 25, 2015 by kahauna

[CaptainCranky]

Meh. At least they got back to some legal work.

 

I guess I might as well come to grips with the fact personal issues are going to be part of this show and learn to deal with the few and far between things that made this show in the beginning a great show.

 

I'm tiring of Rachel but more so the Lewis Litt character. How freaking needy, emotional and flaky can one character be. I liked the old asshole Lewis a lot better in the beginning.

Edited June 25, 2015 by CaptainCranky

[kahauna]

I'm ready for the new season. Hope they keep the convoluted plots to a minimum this time.

I predict Donna will be back with Harvey in no less than 3 shows.

Totally with you on that.... Edited June 25, 2015 by kahauna

[Racj82]

I'm going to be horrible, but seriously, Rachel did drop the ball and they hurt their client. She missed a test and it was very generous of her, but how do you not check if an entire document has printed? I mean, seriously?

Moreover Mike didn't take a look at the list with his eidetic memory to see if that all the names were there? They handed over sight unseen? And they needed a printed list? What, these corporations don't have email? What was that about?

Am I the only one thinking the therapist will be back? And I can't help thinking it will be nice if Harvey gets a new male secretary (though they do have too few women now).

too few women? The main cast is split evenly make and female.

[catrice2]

I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for Megan Markle. It is almost as if the show runners read these boards/blogs and do whatever they can to continue the Rachel hate.  Why were there not page numbers on whatever Mike created? If it said page 2 of 5, and you only had 4 pages, then they would  have known.  Also, why would Rachel have been printing it? If Mike created it, why wouldn't he have printed it and given a copy to Harvey?  I didn't even follow the case of the week, which used to be my favorite part. 

 

They clearly read the boards and try to give the readers what they want, but went overboard with the movie quotes. It used to be cute, now it is just overdone. 

 

I am so tired of Louis the Little Boy.  I had to FF through almost the whole episode and still need to go back and find out what Jessica was wearing.  

 

The Harvey/Donna stuff was annoying...I wish they had let her leave the firm back when she destroyed the memo, but the obvious solution is to make her work for someone else in the firm, on another floor.  

 

The Louis/Donna stuff was annoying...I am so tired of Louis reacting like a child and Donna "mothering and reassuring" him. It is like Groundhog day.  The weird sexual innuendo was just creepy.  If they want to go toward making them have a "relationship" they would have to make Louis act like a man.  They ruined this character. 

 

Harvey's panic attacks were a pointless plot device unless they are going to continue them. 

 

Jessica, as usual, is not given enough to do.I'm sorry Harvey/Donna people, but Harvey/Jessica would make much more sense. 

 

I can't even remember what Mike and Rachel were doing, but for pete's sake pretend like she is already out of law school! 

Edited June 26, 2015 by yeswedo
removed dup text

[Nanrad]

Catrice, you might want to edit your post until that was intentional. lol

 

I'm just curious as to why Jessica/Harvey makes more sense though. 

 

For me, Harvey and Donna just had the chemistry right off the bat--everything is played well regarding how they interact. 

[Shelby]

I really hope we've seen the last of Harvey's panic attacks. I get it.

Louis has grown tiresome. We just see how needy he is now. I can't remember that last time we saw his legal brilliance.

Jessica was terrific for the few minutes she had dialogue.

Mike and Rachael continue to bore.

If tonight's episode is an indicator of the rest of the season, I just can't see tuning in for the rest of it. If the writers have run out of steam, I hope this is the last season and that there is a satisfying ending.

[rollerblade]

The Louis/Donna stuff was annoying...I am so tired of Louis reacting like a child and Donna "mothering and reassuring" him. It is like Groundhog day.  The weird sexual innuendo was just creepy.  If they want to go toward making them have a "relationship" they would have to make Louis act like a man.  They ruined this character. 

 

I thought the Louis+Donna restaurant scene was the best part (and perhaps the only good part) of the episode.

 

Wonder if Donna could remain as Louis' secretary, while being in a relationship with Harvey outside of work. When will these adults start acting like actual adults goddamnit! Speaking of which, there's a noticable lack of "damn" in this episode. New writers?

[Cranston]

I'm a retired personal secretary/assistant and during my work life a secretary just didn't decide on her own..."Oh, pooh...I don't want to work for What's His Name anymore...I think I'll go work for Whooosie!"  Those decisions were made at a  higher, human resource level.  Who does Donna think she is?  Oh, yeah...she's Donna.

[kahauna]

Louis is just too creepy for Donna, period.

Edited June 27, 2015 by kahauna

[Nanrad]

Donna being a Pearson/Hardman in the first place wasn't protocol to begin with, which is due to Jessica allowing Harvey to bring her. In the show, Harvey has given her a lot of power and/or let her to her own thing unlike most secretaries. i don't know how that works in the real world, but Louis tried to each her for years and she stayed with Harvey, and then decided to work for Louis presently. Basically, Donna's decision as to who she gets to work for exists because of Harvey rather than her simply being Donna. Donna wouldn't have the power that she does if she worked for Jessica and almost anyone else minus Harvey and Louis. 

[Happytobehere]

Too much Rachel; too little Jessica. I don't know what the writers see when they look at MM and GT because Torres is 1000 times better an actor and she is beyond beautiful. Yet Jessica is becakburnered and the limited and tiresome MM remains center-stage.

They need to have Louis evolve as a character. He is a too much of a case of same song, different verse.

I actually like Harvey and Donna apart and not because I ship them and hope the business split leads to personal coupledom, because I don't. As I noted last season, Donna's self-righteousness and entitlement was getting to be a bit much. It would do her good to not have Harvey's constant protection to save her from herself. Absent Harvey, a level of human humble might return. It would also do Harvey good to get a secretary who sees him as just an employer and not some sort of deity. He too might learn to be a little less arrogant sans a secretary who doesn't possess Harvey-worship.

By the way, did I say there was TOO LITTLE JESSICA in the episode.

[betsyboo]

His panic attacks have nothing to do with his "secretary" leaving. As Nanrad said, he's in love with her and he's never had to deal with these emotions. Her "leaving" him is not at all about her job skills but more along the lines of terminating a relationship. She's distancing herself from him so she won't get hurt - but, in doing so, she's forcing him to deal with emotions he's obviously not ready to handle. THAT'S what's causing the panic attacks. It's like a marriage breaking up -- even if the wife is only moving next door.

I loved that Jessica called him out with "Scottie leaving didn't throw you off your game this much."

 

Harvey has relied on her for so long as his one true friend/confidant/sisterwife/ex-lover/secretary that he just can't function without her. I actually find the panic attack and therapy fascinating. Finally the fixer can't fix something and has to face his abandonment issues. Why don't we ever meet any of his guy friends (assuming he has them)? He must go to all these sporting events with someone, yes, not just Mike?

 

Do we know if his mom is alive? If so, when does she show up? (Or have i completely blocked out SpectorMom canon from previous eps)

 

I liked the little throw away convo on the way to the Nets game about JayZ and Beyonce. PA and GM have a great rhythm.

Edited June 27, 2015 by betsyboo

[Joimiaroxeu]

Looks like Suits inherited one of the old Necessary Roughness sets. Some of the stuff in that therapist's office looked familiar.

 

If there's ever an episode where Donna and Louis wake up in bed together after a night of too much drinking, I'm done. These people all need to do some research on what it means to have boundaries. I don't know how they get any work done with the way they're always all up in each other's personal business.

 

I predict Donna will be back with Harvey in no less than 3 shows.

Guaranteed. I predict that someone new is going to find out that Mike didn't actually graduate from Harvard and try to use that info to blackmail him or the firm. Because that plot line is the gift that must keep on giving...to the writers.

[MortysCleaningLady]

Only two things really stuck out to me in this episode.  I'm continuing to be on team Litt.  He really wants Donna as a secretary and bought her a rose.  Love him.  And if I stepped into the use the law firm restrooms, I'd be appalled at how poorly those toilets are scrubbed.  It's apparently no where near as high end as my office.  Yuck.

[Nanrad]

Part of me doesn't doubt that Louis really wants Donna as his secretary, but another parts just makes me think that he wants whatever Harvey has. 

 

Donna was already super arrogant before she met Harvey--Harvey didn't turn her into that, he just fed into her high levels of confidence and Harvey was already super arrogant when he met Donna. So, they didn't build each other into arrogant people, they just fed into the other's ego. Look at Louis, he even builds up Donna's ego and probably even more so than Harvey. 

[GoMocs]

Also put me down for more actual lawsuits and court proceedings and less interpersonal drama.

[bros402]

I think Louis & Donna will stay together until Louis has some significant character development - perhaps after Harvey learns to manage his panic attacks through therapy.

 

Or maybe in the season finale, Jessica will steal Donna from Louis.

 

Though I have a feeling that ambitious senior partner or w/e might be this seasons ~*big plot*~ - the one Jessica mentioned off handedly when yelling at Harvey (although I was distracted at the time, maybe she wasn't talking about someone at the firm?)

 

It'd be hilarious if a senior partner led a coup with the rest of the senior partners against Jessica and demanded that Louis be appointed Managing Partner... and he didn't handle it like a Kindergartner.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I love Louis' character and, occasionally, I feel sympathetic for him, BUT sometimes I think he brings it on himself. Louis continuously tries to take poach people that Harvey is close with all while knowing that Harvey only keeps a few people close, just because he wants what Harvey has. IF he doesn't want to feel burned by people leaving him, he needs to stop trying to go after people Harvey has close relationships with. It's not like people who were originally with him first are leaving to go to Harvey; nope, it's people who Harvey has let into his inner circle who considered working with Louis, and then went back to Harvey. 

 

Louis totally brings his woes on himself. Unfortunately, he is just never satisfied with good enough. He never listens to advice. He never learns from his mistakes. He is a huge paranoid hypocrite.

 

It is a tribute to Rick Hoffman's acting that Louis manages to evoke even an iota of sympathy.

Memo to Show: A legal secretary and a paralegal have two very different skill sets. There is no way Rachel could take over Donna's job, even temporarily, nor is there any way that the firm would want her to (paralegals bill for their time; secretaries do not.)

 

Also, unless things have changed drastically since I was in law school (which admittedly was a long time ago), tests are only given once or sometimes twice a course and count for your entire grade. Missing a test is a really big deal.

 

I'm assuming Rachel told some sort of lie to allow her to retake the test later.

 

I'm also assuming Rachel's help is off the books. And while the Best Paralegal Evah! is not going to be a replacement for The Donna, Rachel is better than nothing, which is what Harvey had.

 

too few women? The main cast is split evenly make and female.

 

While there are 3 main male cast members and 3 main females, there's a noticeable difference in the amount of time and emphasis that each of the characters get.

 

That skew is always going to favor the men, as the two leads are Harvey and Mike. 

 

I can't even remember what Mike and Rachel were doing, but for pete's sake pretend like she is already out of law school! 

Rachel is still in law school. It's confusing because she still seems to be at PSL 24-7, and she has been referred to as an "associate," which implies she has graduated law school, rather than as an intern or "summer associate" or something.

 

I'm just curious as to why Jessica/Harvey makes more sense though. 

 

For me, Harvey and Donna just had the chemistry right off the bat--everything is played well regarding how they interact. 

Harvey and Donna have an inherent money/power differential that would be tough to get over, and they aren't cut from the same cloth. Despite their lengthy relationship, Donna has kept important things from Harvey and vice-versa.

 

Harvey and Jessica are intellectual/power/financial equals (or at least, closer to it). 

 

I'm a retired personal secretary/assistant and during my work life a secretary just didn't decide on her own..."Oh, pooh...I don't want to work for What's His Name anymore...I think I'll go work for Whooosie!"  Those decisions were made at a  higher, human resource level.  Who does Donna think she is?  Oh, yeah...she's Donna.

 

I would assume that Donna could put in to replace Norma, and that if Louis wanted her to work for him, it would basically be a done deal. He's a name partner, after all.

 

Besides HR at PSL is probably pretty busy failing to vet their associates, fending off sexual harassment suits, etc. etc.

Do we know if his mom is alive? If so, when does she show up? (Or have i completely blocked out SpectorMom canon from previous eps)

 

Harvey's mom cheated on his dad and is the source of his "the only good emotion is no emotion" philosophy. I think it has been established that dad is a dead jazz musician. I don't think anything has been said about his mom. But then again, I think they only relatively recently invented his gambling addict brother.

[Racj82]

 

While there are 3 main male cast members and 3 main females, there's a noticeable difference in the amount of time and emphasis that each of the characters get.

The amount of screentime someone gets and the amount of people in the actual cast are two different things. And Mike and Harvey are the leads. So, that has nothing to do with male or female anything. That's the way the show was conceived. Rachel and Donna are on screen a lot of the time anyway. Jessica is the only one who suffers for screentime but I think it makes sense seeing as she's the boss we see.

[romantic idiot]

I meant we'd be lopsided if we got a new guy in.

[Roseanna]

On ‎25‎.‎6‎.‎2015 at 6:44 PM, Nanrad said:

Vibe, I think if Donna had been any other secretary who'd been with him as long, Harvey wouldn't have had that much of an issue. But, Donna has always been more than a secretary and not because she's so awesome, but because he's in love with her, has abandonment/trust issues, and they're co-dependent on one another in both small and large ways. Since he was afraid to lose her, he was fine at loving her from a distance as long as she was in his life--meaning secretary. They interacted with one another all day. With her being Louis' secretary, he may not see her often and, as he said and as we already knew, he doesn't handle change well. 

And Donna is like his family, despite the limitedness of how much they see each other outside of work. She's been there for him for his father's death and is aware of what is going on with his family life--has a familiarity. For Harvey, that's big because he doesn't share much, but Donna's knowledge and the way Harvey trusts her with personal info shows that she encompassed many roles in his life and her departure shook him to his core.

I believe that Harvey loves Donna, but the crux of matter is does he love her like a sister/best friend/therapist or like a man loves a woman he wants to share his life with?

If the latter, he has been a fool for 20 years. And he was even a greater fool when, after saying "ILY", he just left and treated Donna in the Morning in the same way than before and when Donna confronted her, he said that he wanted to comfort her which made Donna decide to quit and become Louis's secretary. Obviously, although she talked about the barrier, she at last after Harvey's confession wished for more.