S02.E17: Torture

[Athena]

The US Senate Torture Report revealed horrifying details of America's interrogation program. Helen Mirren will fill you in.

[Victor the Crab]

A hope Ollie will respond to Jack Warner's latest nonsense?

[Unusual Suspect]

Oh, and boy did he.

[AmandaPanda]

That last five minutes was beautiful.

[Victor the Crab]

Ollie's response to Jack Warner's bullshit at him was brilliant. Especially his use of fire at the end of the show. Such a tribute deserves a salute his way:

 

 

When Ollie started his little known country routine, I wondered if he was going to try the same thing with Canada. The immediate answer was no. Of course Ollie overlooked the juicier trouble with the Senate with the trial of former television newsperson, Senate member, and Jabba the Hut stand in Mike Duffy, which really couldn't happen to a more deserving douchebag.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Victor the Crab

[biakbiak]

Dame Helen Mirren is an international treasure!

I did find it funny that the "nothing more American clip" was of a British born Canadian actor famous for playing an American character known for committing torture tackling a Christmas tree in a documentary of a California band's European tour.

Edited June 15, 2015 by biakbiak

[purist]

That final segment was indeed a thing of beauty. I hope Warner answers Ollie's challenge so this delicious feud can continue for our delectation.

 

The 'Torture' segment was very well done, but I just can't laugh at stuff like that. It's too evil for me to find even a shred of humour in it. Except for the Kiefer Sutherland video. Hee!

[attica]

I noticed that when John issued his Bud Light Lime Insult of the Week, the photo did not include the bottle's label. That struck me as...interesting.

 

I wish there was a cable news service that catered to an audience who doesn't give a fuck about profanity.

[peeayebee]

I did find it funny that the "nothing more American clip" was of a British born Canadian actor famous for playing an American character known for committing torture tackling a Christmas tree in a documentary of a California band's European tour.

I was wondering what the context of that Kiefer Sutherland clip was. I mean, I still don't know why he jumped onto the tree -- just because he was drunk? -- but at least I know it was from a documentary.

 

John seemed sincere when he said Helen Mirren had recorded the entire book, but I find that hard to believe. Still, whether she did only snippets or the whole thing, that is brilliant.

 

I don't think Jack Warner will respond, but I hope he will. BTW, didn't the artist(s) behind that music say that Warner used it without his/their permission? Did LWT get permission?

[Eegah]

The artist was actually so upset that he announced John could use it for anything.

[Athena]

I don't think Jack Warner will respond, but I hope he will. BTW, didn't the artist(s) behind that music say that Warner used it without his/their permission? Did LWT get permission?

 

Yes, the composer was interviewed about it on Washington Post.

[radishcake]

I love John Oliver but I have progressively become too sad about the stories covered to laugh.

[Traveller519]

Getting on the cost of the senate audit is just further wind-bagging around the bigger issue from Journalistic sources in my opinion. The point of the audit was to uncover if there were expense issues that were epidemic beyond the Duffy and Wallin cases (two former Journalists). And the answer, to me, was not enough to signal a perilous abuse of power. $1 million among 30 identified Senators out of a house of up to 105. The audit revealed systematic wide spread abuse really isn't in play. Journalists obsession with politician's spending habits never fails to anger me, especially when the offenders that triggered this whole thing are former Journalists themselves!

 

Also, I feel the truth behind the success of torture lies somewhere between "It was critical to finding Bin Laden" and "Provided no meaningful intelligence." That's not too say I don't think a law needs to be passed to remove what was allowed under Cheney, but I think that's the wrong way to sell it. The better ways, in my opinion, are "American torture techniques have raised dissent internationally and are being used for ISIS and Al Qaeda recruiting techniques" and the "The point of adhering to the Geneva convention and setting an example, is so that if American's are imprisoned abroad we can put pressure on reducing the likelihood that they are subjected to torture themselves.

[iMonrey]

Look, I wouldn't drink a Bud Lime myself, bit it's time for John to lay off the Budweiser jokes. It's really starting to rub me the wrong way. Like he's some kind of elitist snob who wouldn't drink anything that isn't an expensive import or fancy craft beer. Same thing with the McDonalds dollar menu. I don't want to eat there very often but an order of fries or chicken McNuggets every so often wouldn't kill me. It's crap like this that give Fox News pundits and their ilk the fuel to call people like John Oliver "liberal elites."

[trow125]

I noticed that when John issued his Bud Light Lime Insult of the Week, the photo did not include the bottle's label. That struck me as...interesting.

That is what the bottle looks like now. They changed it a few months ago. Ironically, I probably wouldn't have paid attention to the commercials were it not for the fact that I now have some kind of Bud Light Lime radar due to John Oliver and Stephen Colbert. (I don't drink beer so I generally tend to ignore the advertising.)

 

I think John pokes fun at BLL for the same reason Jon Stewart jokes about Arby's -- it just turns into a running gag that, I'm guessing, somebody on the writing staff particularly enjoys. Eventually it gets a little wearying, like the "country in wrong place on the map" jokes.

[attica]

That is what the bottle looks like now.

 

Oh! Well, that's very different, then! [/littella]

[Brandi Maxxxx]

Eventually it gets a little wearying, like the "country in wrong place on the map" jokes.

I think the map jokes work because they don't just repeat the original joke with different countries. There's always a new layer. (e.g. "Not only is that not Azerbaijan, it's not even a landmass - it's the Caspian Sea.")

[Sharpie66]

I don't mind him going after an American beer like Budweiser. It's a tradition amongst British comedians to really hate American mega-brews like Bud or Miller (as I heard from Monty Python, who I'm sure were just re-using an old joke from somewhere else, "American beer is like making love in a canoe--it's f**king close to water!").

[ZoqFotPik]

Given the topic of the show, I was surprised they didn't include Shepard Smith's "We do not fucking torture!" in the reporters swearing montage.

[Irlandesa]

 It's crap like this that give Fox News pundits and their ilk the fuel to call people like John Oliver "liberal elites."

Yes.  If John would only lay off the beer and McDonalds jokes, FOX news would have nothing to make fun of liberals about.  It's not like FOX would make mountains out of molehills, make shit up or deliberately misinterpret things would they?  Nevah. 

 

The reason I liked the Bud Lime joke is because I expected it to be over after last week's massive binge.  The fact that they brought it back for at least one last joke worked for me.

 

The torture report story was equally impressive and depressing.  Where I work, I often have to work with people who have pre-conceived ideas and only want to find more information that supports those pre-conceived ideas...even to the point of misinterpreting/mispresenting information that actually goes against their POV.  That torture report doesn't matter.  There's already too much conviction and political identity wrapped up a POV.

[ganesh]

The point of adhering to the Geneva convention and setting an example, is so that if American's are imprisoned abroad we can put pressure on reducing the likelihood that they are subjected to torture themselves.

 

This is part of what they're not getting. USA has to walk the high road for this exact reason. That doesn't mean coddle terrorists, but they can't be dying of hypothermia either. 

 

Secondly, yes, it's totally a recruiting tool for IS. IS knows them some branding, and getting rid of them isn't as simple as just beating them up and expecting they're going to run away scared. It's weird, but you can wage a similar information campaign: We think you're wrong IS, but we aren't cutting people's head's off. 

 

The example they showed was great, "what can I do for your family? They could be in real danger if IS finds out you're here. We can go right in there and get them. You can see them. It's your decision. You tell me what to do." That's got to be way way more effective.

[Hanahope]

I think its absolutely disgusting that a supreme court justice is using a fictional television show to support the theory that torture works to provide actual useful information.

[attica]

TBF, it's just that floating fuckball Scalia. Hopefully the other court peeps know the difference between truth and fiction.

[ganesh]

This is the same justice that is on record saying the devil is real and walks among us. So, citing a tv show isn't actually that much of a stretch. 

[Victor the Crab]

TBF, it's just that floating fuckball Scalia. Hopefully the other court peeps know the difference between truth and fiction.

 

Yeah, but who knows what goes through the thought process of people like Thomas and Alito.

[Eegah]

Alito is the one who humps the one next to him, after all.

[Slovenly Muse]

 

I think its absolutely disgusting that a supreme court justice is using a fictional television show to support the theory that torture works to provide actual useful information.

 

No one with that little sense should have been able to pass the bar, let alone advance to the Supreme Court. Imagine if Jack Bauer never got useful information through his methods, was never instrumental in preventing another attack, but obstinately continued threatening, brutalizing, torturing and terrorizing people to no effect (well, except for the effect of creating more enemies). THAT is how America looks to the rest of the world right now.

 

I'd expect a Supreme Court Justice to know a false comparison when he's making one.

[Jaded Sapphire]

No one with that little sense should have been able to pass the bar, let alone advance to the Supreme Court. Imagine if Jack Bauer never got useful information through his methods, was never instrumental in preventing another attack, but obstinately continued threatening, brutalizing, torturing and terrorizing people to no effect (well, except for the effect of creating more enemies). THAT is how America looks to the rest of the world right now.

 

I'd expect a Supreme Court Justice to know a false comparison when he's making one.

Slightly off-topic but the last scene they showed of 24 was the first time I expected Jack Bauer's interrogation techniques not to work. The man he shot in the knee had knowledge of an attack at 8am but was being interrogated at 757am. I was young(er) and dumb(er) then but it's when I started to fall off the wagon for that show, even as just suspenseful entertainment. How is it sensible or even dramatic to scream at him now? He knows it's 3 minutes away. He could lie, say nothing, or even tell you the truth if he wants. Unless you can teleport any (true) info he gives will be useless anyway. 

 

Back on-topic: If I could figure that out at 16 years old (not to mention torture never worked on the good guys in that show) than I refuse to believe a Supreme Court Justice couldn't do it too. I'm convinced Scalia is a troll.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Jaded Sapphire

[OneWhoLurks]

And Melville House got its share of help along the way -- HBO’s John Oliver gave sales a bump this summer when he used the publisher's copy in a segment on the report that aired in the midst of a congressional battle over the use of torture. Oliver had actress Helen Mirren read some of the study's more gruesome passages.

“I still get calls weekly asking when the Helen Mirren audiobook comes out,” Johnson laughed.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/torture-report-melville-house-publisher_561559cbe4b0cf9984d7fffb

[OneWhoLurks]

Quote

 

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — U.S. armed forces and the CIA may have committed war crimes by torturing detainees in Afghanistan, the International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor says in a report, raising the possibility that American citizens could be indicted even though Washington has not joined the global court.

"Members of US armed forces appear to have subjected at least 61 detained persons to torture, cruel treatment, outrages upon personal dignity on the territory of Afghanistan between 1 May 2003 and 31 December 2014," according to the report issued by Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda's office on Monday.

The report added that CIA operatives may have subjected at least 27 detainees in Afghanistan, Poland, Romania and Lithuania to "torture, cruel treatment, outrages upon personal dignity and/or rape" between December 2002 and March 2008.

 

Quote

 

Before deciding to open a full-scale investigation, ICC prosecutors have to establish whether they have jurisdiction and whether the alleged crimes are being investigated and prosecuted in the countries involved. The ICC is a court of last resort that takes on cases only when other countries are unable or unwilling to prosecute.

The report noted that U.S. authorities have conducted dozens of investigations and court-martial cases and says ICC prosecutors are seeking further clarifications on their scope before deciding whether any American cases would be admissible at the ICC.

 

ICC prosecutors: US forces may have committed war crimes