Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[Cutty]

The Final 3 must be bored as hell. Even, a card game for Vanessa must be killing her. LOL!!! I want to see Steve win the Final HOH just to see if he evits Vanessa or not and what her reaction will be. It will be pretty close but I think if he does evict Vanessa it might help sway the jury for an extra vote or two. I still think he wins against Liz.

 

Given what she has said in her DRs, she seems pretty sure that Steve is taking her to F2. A final 3 blindside would be pretty epic.

[bobthefrog]

I think it's hard to judge what James/Meg will think of Steve's game because of how much of Steve's game has happened since James/Meg left the house. He won 2 more HoHs (3 if he wins the last one) and will be responsible for breaking up the twins and taking out Vanessa.

As far as Steve's speech goes, he isn't actually planning on saying that Vanessa did everything and he just profited from it. He's saying that they were in an alliance and that he made his fair share of contributions and won his fair share of comps but that inarguably she had more strategic influence then he did. Basically, I played a good game, you played a great one. Steve's admitted to the cameras that he knows that he'd lose to Vanessa and that he knows that he'd deserve to lose to Vanessa. He once said that Vanessa played an amazing game while he thinks that he played the best game possible for someone of his skill set. He would never have been able to play people like Vanessa did because he just doesn't have the social skills.

[SiobhanJW]

Given what she has said in her DRs, she seems pretty sure that Steve is taking her to F2. A final 3 blindside would be pretty epic.

Yeah but since those DR, there has been stuff Steve has said to her and his behavior that might make her think otherwise.

I think she knows he might cut her.

[choclatechip45]

Waaaayyyyy too much time between the 2nd HOH and the finale.

Has there been anything in past seasons that was significant enough to warrant this much time for them to just sleep and eat all day?

It started in season 11. I remember one of the rumors at the time was because production thought it was unlikely Jordan would make the final 2 and they didn't want to loose viewers for finale night with a Kevin/Natalie final 2.

[ByaNose]

And, if she's smart she knows he should. I wonder if she'll cry to guilt him as she's walking out? C'mon, Wednesday!

[bobthefrog]

Yeah but since those DR, there has been stuff Steve has said to her and his behavior that might make her think otherwise.

I think she knows he might cut her.

I feel like if she thought there was a decent chance he wasn't taking her, she'd be working on him more. But maybe she's just banking on winning the last HoH.

[SiobhanJW]

I feel like if she thought there was a decent chance he wasn't taking her, she'd be working on him more. But maybe she's just banking on winning the last HoH.

Possibly. I also think she hasn't been 100% with being hurt and sleeping. I think come Tuesday night she will tell Liz that Steve is claiming he is taking Van and they want to tell Liz. She will spin it like I never said that to him he is making it up and I will be taking you if I Win the Final HOH and then she will start whatever she is going to say to him.

[blixie]

 

I think come Tuesday night she will tell Liz that Steve is claiming he is taking Van and they want to tell Liz. She will spin it like I never said that to him he is making it up and I will be taking you if I Win the Final HOH and then she will start whatever she is going to say to him.

 

Wait you lost me, I haven't been able to check in with feeds since Friday. Who is the "they" that wants to tell Liz? I get that she wants to rat Steve out to Liz, but I'm not sure how that improves her standing with Steve to go to F2.

[mooses]

I feel like if she thought there was a decent chance he wasn't taking her, she'd be working on him more. But maybe she's just banking on winning the last HoH.

Liz told Vanessa that she caught Steve acting weird or something, and Vanessa started poking him about knowing something is on his mind. He chalked it up to being worried about how he's been portrayed, but she might start paying extra attention to him now.

Vanessa is banking on the HGs believing everyone hates her, but she's been too strong a player, and Steve knows too well how juries usually vote, to take that into consideration.

[Wings]

It appears that Liz is guaranteed to be in the F2.   There is no need to tell Liz anything about Steve, she will not have a choice in anything.  Final comp is between Steve and Vanessa.  Both are likely to take Liz.   What am I missing? 

Edited September 21, 2015 by wings707

[kassa]

Neither Steve nor Vanessa has been particularly subtle in the past week or so - they're both playing the game to each other's face, and both fully aware that the other doesn't fully trust the deal they're constantly agreeing is in place.   They're still making their pitches, but they're volleying much more as they do it, calling each other out on inconsistencies, covering up for having made an inconsistent statement, pretending the other's cover-up explains it and the deal is still on.  In short -- they are in full agreement that they'd both be FOOLS to do anything but take each other.  Except they each know that they might not.  And the other one might not.

 

I think it's kind of amusing to watch them enjoy their fake complete sincerity.  

[Ceeg]

Vanessa just told Liz that Steve thinks Vanessa is bringing him but she's not. She also said that if he doesn't take her, if he wins HOH, she's not voting for him. So, Steve is already down 3 votes automatically.

 

I think Vanessa is kind of tired of all of Steve's shenanigans, because she's been pretty snappy with him the past day or two. Maybe it's partially because her neck is bothering her, partially because she suspects something is up with him, partially because she's over playing nice since it's all pointless now.

[blixie]

 

Vanessa just told Liz that Steve thinks Vanessa is bringing him but she's not. She also said that if he doesn't take her, if he wins HOH, she's not voting for him. So, Steve is already down 3 votes automatically.

 

Hmm ideally Liz will tell Steve this even though it's not in her interest, maybe she just forgets and blurts it, but that might shake him up more than if Van makes the case he can't win if he votes her out, rather than the more logical idea that he'll impress the jury by voting her out. 

[Brian Cronin]

Steve is putting waaaaaaaay too much thought into this stupid speech. It'll be hilarious when Vanessa wins the last HoH part, that he'll have spent two weeks rehearsing a speech he'll never give. :)

[BK1978]

It started in season 11. I remember one of the rumors at the time was because production thought it was unlikely Jordan would make the final 2 and they didn't want to loose viewers for finale night with a Kevin/Natalie final 2.

 

I never realized that but it makes perfect sense because a Kevin/Natalie final would be up there with Dick/Daniele as one of the worst finals.  I always thought it was because they wanted the maximum amount of drama for the last night so they decided to keep three in the house. 

[SiobhanJW]

Wait you lost me, I haven't been able to check in with feeds since Friday. Who is the "they" that wants to tell Liz? I get that she wants to rat Steve out to Liz, but I'm not sure how that improves her standing with Steve to go to F2.

After Steve won he told Vanessa that he wants to tell Liz that both of them are taking eachother ala Cody & Derrick telling Victoria last year. She played if off like you just won, I'm hurting and out of it we can wait before we do that. He pushed it again yesterday I believe and she pushed back, claiming the DR doesn't want them to do it too early.

[blixie]

Oh Jimminy motherfucking Cricket, more of this let's tell someone what we're gonna do. Eff you Steve. 

[Ceeg]

Oh Jimminy motherfucking Cricket, more of this let's tell someone what we're gonna do. Eff you Steve.

From Steve's perspective, I think it's more of an attempt to lock Vanessa down. He wants assurance that she's taking him. Which is funny because he's clearly lying about taking her too.

[blixie]

Well that's what I mean, they both know they are full of shit so back off twit! Tthat's why I wish Van would break out The Stick and tell him she's not voting for him and he'll be down 1-3 (assuming John is lock), at the very least he has good reason to think he also doesn't have Jackie and Becky, so he's "lost" already just there. He also has no good reason to think Meg will be voting based on good strategic moves or even if he wins the final HoH against Van it's a crapshoot and I'm not sure why he thinks that's such a HUGE respect gaining move. I do think Van is just banking on winning the damn HoH straight up,but I'd like to see her not be complacent with her misting. I love when twists these people into doing things not in their interest. 

[Ceeg]

If Steve is already down 1-3 in votes, I'm not sure it'll be the best idea to call Vanessa the best female BB player ever and that he can't beat her. If I'm an on-the-fence voter, that wouldn't get my vote.

It's hard to predict jury votes though. Who knows what they'll do.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Ceeg

[Brian Cronin]

I'm kind of stuck on who Les Moonves thought was the final mistake, HG-wise, when he said 5-6 HGs this year were mistakes. 

 

It is clear that one is Audrey and I think it is equally clear that Jeff and Jackie are two more, as the whole "Amazing Race Takeover" went nowhere. I think he thinks the Twin Twist was a bomb, but not that Liz was necessarily a bomb. So I think that's where the 5-6 mistakes comment come from, because he thinks the Twin Twist was a bomb but Liz wasn't necessarily a bomb, so 5-6 (5 if just the Twin Twist was a comb, so Julia is #5 or 6 if he thinks both sides of the Twin Twist were bombs).

So it'd be:

1. Audrey

2-3. Jeff and Jackie

4 ?

5-6 Julia as the definite bomb and Liz as a qualified bomb

 

But who's the fourth?

 

It can't be Vanessa. She's been fine. Steve has done as well as they could expect. Shelli was better than expected. I honestly don't see how Austin could be considered a mistake as a contestant. I don't like the guy, but he seems to pretty much do everything they expected of him. 

 

So that leaves:

 

John

James

Meg

Becky

Day

Jason

Clay

Jace

 

John and James are fighting for AFP, so it can't be them.

 

I think the final one has to be either Day or Jason, as Day did very poorly for such a superfan and Jason didn't do much better. And Day was surprisingly bad as a player for such a smart lady. And since she was one of their few minority HGs, it was probably doubly annoying for them for her to do so poorly.

 

So I guess I'm going Day, Audrey, Jeff and Jackie and Julia (with Liz probably not, but a possible sixth). 

[Petunia13]

Jace who was a brainless obnoxious tool or Austin since production rightfully hated him. He was very rude to them.

[Eolivet]

I remember reading that Les Moonves was angry with BB9, so he helped cast BB10 himself, and that had the largest age gap for contestants in years with very few jock types, if I recall correctly. I'd love if the takeover busts caused him to do it again next year, even though I liked a large part of this year's cast.

 

Still rooting for history, but all I really care about is that Vanessa isn't blindsided by Steve because...no. Even better if she caught him practicing his evict Vanessa speech.

[Cutty]

I've always said Becky was a casting mistake because she was so utterly boring, and had very little personality in the DR. Just way too bland of a character. Then again, I view Audrey as a casting hit. Her gameplay was a disaster but she created all kinds of quality entertainment. 

 

I feel like this was the best cast in a long time. Could have used more diversity but I don't see 5-6 mistakes at all. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Cutty

[mayziemay]

I think Meg was a disappointment. She was supposed to be a huge personality and she slept all day and couldn't win a comp and was a bit dim about strategy.

[jeansophie]

Tthat's why I wish Van would break out The Stick and tell him she's not voting for him and he'll be down 1-3 (assuming John is lock), at the very least he has good reason to think he also doesn't have Jackie and Becky, so he's "lost" already just there.

I want to believe that Vanessa will find a way to speak softly at the appropriate time and give him enough information that he'll figure it out on his own, during some of all that pacing and thinking outloud that we have to look forward to between now and the finale. I agree that Steve will be mortified if he ultimately loses to Liz. Of course who knows what the real effect of her injury/pain/medication is having on her game. She warned him last night that her threshold (for tolerating his neurotic behavior) was lower because of it.

[Cutty]

Well that's what I mean, they both know they are full of shit so back off twit! Tthat's why I wish Van would break out The Stick and tell him she's not voting for him and he'll be down 1-3 (assuming John is lock), at the very least he has good reason to think he also doesn't have Jackie and Becky, so he's "lost" already just there. He also has no good reason to think Meg will be voting based on good strategic moves or even if he wins the final HoH against Van it's a crapshoot and I'm not sure why he thinks that's such a HUGE respect gaining move. I do think Van is just banking on winning the damn HoH straight up,but I'd like to see her not be complacent with her misting. I love when twists these people into doing things not in their interest. 

 

Threatening jury votes never works. Danielle tried to pull that shit with Ian the final week and it just made him want to take Dan even more.

 

I'm pretty sure Becky would vote Steve over Liz. She's one of the few evicted jurors who said that Steve is playing a great game. Winning 3 of the final 4 HOHs and evicting Vanessa at F3 would be nothing to sneeze at. The swing votes would be Meg and James imo.

 

I think Meg was a disappointment. She was supposed to be a huge personality and she slept all day and couldn't win a comp and was a bit dim about strategy.

 

Good call. They really need to stop trying to cast the female hipster archetype. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Cutty

[Ceeg]

Threatening jury votes never works. Danielle tried to pull that shit with Ian the final week and it just made him want to take Dan even more.

Ordinarily, I'd agree. But, by Vanessa saying she'd never vote for him, and the fact that Liz's twin sister and boyfriend are both on the jury, Steve would be starting 0-3 right off the start. He has no chance of swaying any of those 3 votes.

 

I don't really think Vanessa should threaten Steve with her vote, but I also don't think it'd be a bad play to remind him he'd be starting 3 votes in the hole automatically. 

Steve is in a bit of an awkward position because he has to choose between taking the best player and taking someone who has an automatic 3 votes. It's tough.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Ceeg

[jeansophie]

Steve is in a bit of an awkward position because he has to choose between taking the best player and taking someone who has an automatic 3 votes. It's tough.

If he wasn't already a paranoid, neurotic insomniac, this realization would probably give him a big push in that direction.

[Nashville]

Liz started out and kept a bigger target on her back than Steve, so her being in the F3 is more impressive.

The "I survived an extra twist and that makes my game better" road might be a dangerous one for Liz to start down. Steve could just as easily make the argument that the Twins' gameplay was so incompetent they would not have survived past Week 2 or 3, had not stronger players decided their presence could be a benefit and provided cover.

I totally think Steve will lose to Liz, and I hope Vanessa has told him that, and made him a promise that her vote is going to Liz, and that since he could very well lose to both woman who does he want to BEAT him? Van who he likes more and respects as a gamer, or Liz who he likes okay,and doesn't respect her game at all (which is funny since their games were pretty similar) and if anything I think Liz did more work in her own favor than Steve ever did in his own favor.

He's already going to struggle with follow through when it comes time, she needs to really convince him he's only playing for 50K regardless.

Flip it another way, under the circumstances you just described.

You're Steve and you've won FHoH3.

You're definitely a lock for $50K, with a shot at half a mil.

Who would you take?

• Liz, who you might beat?
• Vanessa, who (a) you almost certainly wouldn't beat, and (b) just threatened you with her Jury vote?

Me, I'd take my chances with Liz. To paraphrase JMac, evicting V would get you the God Vote, and that might be enough to sway the other five votes on Jury. Plus, V might actually still vote for Steve, if he showed enough backbone to evict her despite any threats. Edited September 21, 2015 by Nashville

[SiobhanJW]

The "I survived an extra twist and that makes my game better" road might be a dangerous one for Liz to start down. Steve could just as easily make the argument that the Twins' gameplay was so incompetent they would not have survived past Week 2 or 3, had not stronger players decided their presence could be a benefit and provided cover.

Flip it another way, under the circumstances you just described.

You're Steve and you've won FHoH3.

You're definitely a lock for $50K, with a shot at half a mil.

Who would you take?

• Liz, who you might beat?
• Vanessa, who (a) you almost certainly wouldn't beat, and (b) just threatened you with her Jury vote?

Me, I'd take my chances with Liz. To paraphrase JMac, evicting V would get you the God Vote, and that might be enough to sway the other five votes on Jury. Plus, V might actually still vote for Steve, if he showed enough backbone to evict her despite any threats.

I have no doubt that if Steve evicts Van that she will vote for Liz. I just don't see her voting for him.

[Ceeg]

The "I survived an extra twist and that makes my game better" road might be a dangerous one for Liz to start down. Steve could just as easily make the argument that the Twins' gameplay was so incompetent they would not have survived past Week 2 or 3, had not stronger players decided their presence could be a benefit and provided cover.

Steve doesn't know that's what Vanessa did though. Steve also benefited from stronger players' game too. Without Vanessa's creation of the 6S and F&G, Liz might have been evicted early. But the same can be said for Steve too. He was on people's radar very early, but being Vanessa's main ally, she was able to put the target on other people.

 

Basically, both of them will be sitting there with a big thanks to Vanessa and her gameplay. It's just a matter of who the jury wants to win the money, really. If Liz already has 3 votes (and yes, I believe Vanessa will vote for her), all she needs is James and Meg, who have already expressed an Anyone-But-Steve mentality in the past.

[Cutty]

How about Steve winning three of the final four HOHs though? That's...something.

 

And of course Vanessa had a large part in them both being there, but Steve appearing (whether intentional or most likely not) non-threatening is a credit to his gameplay. Combine that with some pretty clutch comp wins, and presumably evicting Vaneesa, he's got a decent resume. Much better than Liz's, who has uttered fewer than 10 strategic words all season and has totally bombed the last 4-5 comps of the season. I'm not particularly fond of either one but I guess I just like that Steve is at least aware enough to realize he has no shot at beating Vanessa while Liz wants (or wanted to before the second part) to take Vanessa to F2 because she's under the delusion that she can beat her. That tells me all I need to know about Liz's gameplay.

 

The funny thing about Liz's last HOH, wasting it on James because she was high on Vanessa's mist, directly resulted in her sister and boyfriend going home in consecutive weeks. But I don't even think she realizes what a terrible move that was.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Cutty

[Petunia13]

The "I survived an extra twist and that makes my game better" road might be a dangerous one for Liz to start down. Steve could just as easily make the argument that the Twins' gameplay was so incompetent they would not have survived past Week 2 or 3, had not stronger players decided their presence could be a benefit and provided cover.

Blixie says " I totally think Steve will lose to Liz, and I hope Vanessa has told him that, and made him a promise that her vote is going to Liz, and that since he could very well lose to both woman who does he want to BEAT him? Van who he likes more and respects as a gamer, or Liz who he likes okay,and doesn't respect her game at all (which is funny since their games were pretty similar) and if anything I think Liz did more work in her own favor than Steve ever did in his own favor.

He's already going to struggle with follow through when it comes time, she needs to really convince him he's only playing for 50K regardless."

Flip it another way, under the circumstances you just described.

You're Steve and you've won FHoH3.

You're definitely a lock for $50K, with a shot at half a mil.

Who would you take?

• Liz, who you might beat?
• Vanessa, who (a) you almost certainly wouldn't beat, and (b) just threatened you with her Jury vote?

Me, I'd take my chances with Liz. To paraphrase JMac, evicting V would get you the God Vote, and that might be enough to sway the other five votes on Jury. Plus, V might actually still vote for Steve, if he showed enough backbone to evict her despite any threats.

I agree with your entire post, Nashville .

Edited September 22, 2015 by Petunia13

[Guest]

If they try to cast mostly people we'll really like, with a villain or two thrown in for fun, I can see a lot of them being seen as mistakes.

 

Jace:  Way too over the top.  Everyone was glad to see him go.  Could've been a Hayden Voss but was hated and ridiculed instead.

Day:  Also playing too hard (prepping for a counting comp in week 1?) and not very likable.  Playing the sassy black woman role?  Over it.  

Jeff:  Snore.  Not good looking, nothing interesting there, not even scheming with Jackie

Audrey:  Meltdown under a blanket

Jason:  Interesting and somewhat likable to me, but sounds kind of mean based on feeds comments?

Clay:  Snore.  Quit.

Shelli: Annoying

Jackie: Mildly interesting

Becky:  Dull, annoying

John:  Funny to me, annoying to many

Meg:  Cute but dull and way too injured for the challenges

James:  Fun player

Julia:  Ok, a little dull

Austin:  Too 'fame ho' for most of us, most seemed to hate him

Vanessa:  Started out very rootable but grew annoying as hell

Liz: Snore. And ew.

Steve:  To me, he's acting the part of someone socially inept and I just don't much like him, though I don't care much

 

So out of the whole batch, I possibly would've found 3-4 of them rootable out of the 17, and if I don't have anyone rootable in the game, I'm not that interested. I don't even dislike any of them enough to be rooting against them.  I think that's a bad cast.  But I'll take it over the Aaryn type cast, I guess.   

[Ceeg]

I'm not particularly fond of either one but I guess I just like that Steve is at least aware enough to realize he has no shot at beating Vanessa while Liz wants (or wanted to before the second part) to take Vanessa to F2 because she's under the delusion that she can beat her. That tells me all I need to know about Liz's gameplay.

Liz doesn't think she can beat Vanessa. She flat out told Vanessa today that Vanessa deserves to win. I think Liz believes she's probably drawing dead at this point, and she'd rather lose to Vanessa than lose to Steve. Girl power and all that.

[mooses]

Liz doesn't think she can beat Vanessa. She flat out told Vanessa today that Vanessa deserves to win. I think Liz believes she's probably drawing dead at this point, and she'd rather lose to Vanessa than lose to Steve. Girl power and all that.

And I'm pretty sure she's still mad Julia went out in Steve's HOH.

[Cutty]

Liz doesn't think she can beat Vanessa. She flat out told Vanessa today that Vanessa deserves to win. I think Liz believes she's probably drawing dead at this point, and she'd rather lose to Vanessa than lose to Steve. Girl power and all that.

 

Well, all that's irrelevant if Steve wins. Considering she has no power, she should be working to secure her spot in the F2 regardless of who wins. That's just Big Brother 101.

 

Has Liz even spoken to Steve at all about bringing her to final 2 or is she just banking on Vanessa winning part 3? 

[ByaNose]

Yeah, does Liz just assume Steve is bringing Vanessa to the Finals if he wins? Would Liz be totally shocked if Steve cut Vanessa at the Final 3?

[yankee1151]

Well, all that's irrelevant if Steve wins. Considering she has no power, she should be working to secure her spot in the F2 regardless of who wins. That's just Big Brother 101.

 

Has Liz even spoken to Steve at all about bringing her to final 2 or is she just banking on Vanessa winning part 3? 

I'm not sure Liz is aware of the rules of the game, still. She might think there's still a possibility she gets to choose. Also, I just read on Twitter that she just tried to put a baked potato wrapped in foil in the microwave and Vanessa had to stop her. Oh, Liz.

[Cutty]

You joke but a few weeks ago Liz was shocked to learn that the jury gets to ask questions. 

[yankee1151]

Oh, I know. I wasn't joking!  

 

I actually think Liz deserves to win over Steve based on overall game (clueless as she is) but it's a tough call because they were both heavily influenced/protected by others. Steve doesn't get points from me for being a superfan. He was pretty inept most of the time and ALWAYS needed to be told what to do. Comp wins I think they're about even, though Steve may win points for winning the last HOH (if he doesn't he's gone so this comparison would be moot). I just feel like Liz was a bit more proactive than Steve was. And far less afraid.  

 

Obviously Vanessa will smoke them both, which is why she is in a win or go home situation. I hope she's truly aware of that, and doesn't think Steve is really going to take her. Although there is always the chance that he does keep her to avoid puking on live national television. Not really joking about that either.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

If Vanessa threatens Steve with her jury votes out of bitterness, I hope he evicts her just because.

If Vanessa is justified in not voting for Steve because he blindsided her, then I hope he too doesn't vote for her if she blindsides him.

Two can play at this game.

[Cutty]

Perusing through my BB17 Twitter list and came across this gem.

“@BigBrotherLeak: Vanessa tells Liz that if she (Liz) somehow gets 3rd place, she will win America’s Favorite. Vanessa: ”You got it.“ #BB17”

All the lols.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Cutty

[Nashville]

Yeah, does Liz just assume Steve is bringing Vanessa to the Finals if he wins? Would Liz be totally shocked if Steve cut Vanessa at the Final 3?

 

IIRC I remember reading on Joker's a few days ago an (I think) early morning conversation between Steve and Liz in the BY, while V was asleep inside.

Steve and Liz were comparing notes, and both were in agreement there was no way either could beat V in F2.

I don't think an F2 agreement was outright voiced - but strongly implied.

 

If Vanessa threatens Steve with her jury votes out of bitterness, I hope he evicts her just because.

If Vanessa is justified in not voting for Steve because he blindsided her, then I hope he too doesn't vote for her if she blindsides him.

Two can play at this game.

 

Steve almost certainly wouldn't - I think he'd be too afraid of his BB legacy being that of a bitter juror - but I'd purely love it if he did.

[Nashville]

Steve doesn't know that's what Vanessa did though.

 

1. Protecting the Twins wasn't a "what Vanessa did" thing, IIRC - that was a collusion between V/Shelly/Clay/Austin, which - with the addition of the twins - evolved into 6th Sense.
2. Of course Steve knew what was done to protect the twins.  EVERYBODY knew.  The Twin Twist was quite arguably the worst kept secret in the history of Big Brother.  The only person in North America who didn't know was Jace.  :)

[kikaha]

Ordinarily, I'd agree. But, by Vanessa saying she'd never vote for him, and the fact that Liz's twin sister and boyfriend are both on the jury, Steve would be starting 0-3 right off the start.

 

 

One problem with that tactic is that Steve can make the same argument to Vanessa: don't take me and I will vote for LIz.  So Vanessa also starts out three votes in the hole. 

 

I personally think whoever wins part 3 should take Liz, and then run to the bank Thursday morning with their half-million-dollar check.  I also think that's what they will do. 

[Ceeg]

 

1. Protecting the Twins wasn't a "what Vanessa did" thing, IIRC - that was a collusion between V/Shelly/Clay/Austin, which - with the addition of the twins - evolved into 6th Sense.

 

Vanessa is the one that started the ball rolling and who spearheaded forming those alliances. She straight up confronted Julia about it, Julia told her, Vanessa then told Julia that she'll do her best to protect them. Then Vanessa told Julia that they need to tell Shelli, Clay, and Austin, thus creating 6S. Vanessa is the link there. She is the one who connected all 6 of them together.  Austin had no idea they were twins, and Shelli and Clay would have happily kept talking about the twin twist behind Liz's back until she was targeted. 

[mooses]

If Vanessa threatens Steve with her jury votes out of bitterness, I hope he evicts her just because.

I still don't buy that Steve played such a better game than Liz that jury votes not for him would be out of bitterness. They both rode on coattails - Steve on Vanessa's for the most part, using her as a shield, and Liz using Austin as a shield.

Steve even thought he was screwed during DE. It's not like he's some master strategist who decided to blame it on Vanessa - the others came up with that theory for him. A lot of his game just fell into his lap.

Liz was usually in the strategic meetings with Vanessa/Austin/Julia to plan their week. Steve was usually filled in later with what he needed to know to stay in line.

Granted, he's had good run at the end. But Liz had a good run as well when she needed it.

Edited September 22, 2015 by mooses

[kassa]

They both rode on coattails - Steve on Vanessa's for the most part, using her as a shield, and Liz using Austin as a shield.

 

 

Is it riding on coattails to use someone as a shield?  Or just savvy gameplay?   Why wouldn't you keep larger targets than yourself in your alliance?  Pretty much everybody who plays the game intelligently does that -- uses alliance members until they're expendable.

 

To me, the coattail riders are the ones kept around as proxy votes for the people actually intent on playing the game.  People who don't win comps, couldn't save themselves if their lives depended on it, are pleasant to be around, maybe pick up around the house, and ultimately do as they're told.  

 

I don't think Steve and Liz are master players by any means, but I think they have played reasonably well and each had significant competition success.  I really want Vanessa to win, but the others wouldn't be a complete travesty.