Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[ennui]

Does Liz realize Johnny's vote counts? I know he won't vote for her anyway, but bad idea, Liz.

Iirc, Liz's goodbye messages to tend to be really obnoxious. There was another earlier in the season that I thought was super bitchy, but now I can't remember who it was. Hopefully that person remembers!

[bobthefrog]

I think Steve's big "secret" is that he's only 18 or 19, and not 22 years old as stated on his bio. It would explain why he doesn't drink (though he surely owes no one any explanation on that) and also his childish habits...a geeky teenager not yet grown enough to suppress the urge to cry, vomit and beg for hugs. An immature 18-year old, at that.

I noticed after John's eviction, when they were pouring champagne, Steve did a very fake "drink" from his glass with the oddest expression on his face, as if he were trying to make sure at least two cameras "caught" him NOT actually drinking.

The kid gets on my nerves but still, I think he's just young...too young for this show, as it turns out.

I could, of course, be entirely wrong.

I really don't think that's the case. You have to be 21 to be on the show now. If he is actually 18-19 that would mean that he lied on his application and probably had to get false documentation. Production does background checks and contacts references. It's hard to imagine anyone could hide their age through all of that. Edited September 18, 2015 by bobthefrog

[Eolivet]

But here's my question - has he actually made it "personal"? Has he called her a bitch or any other names? Has he said she has it coming? Has he said he hopes she cries, and how awesome it will be to see her so upset? Has he done anything other than completely geek over the thought of booting the biggest player in the game?

 

That is absolutely a fair point. I guess the idea of someone relishing the idea of booting another player -- one with whom one has shared personal conversations and developed a relationship on a friendship level -- kind of rubs me the wrong way. I mean, we didn't hear this kind of glee prior to the booting of Aaryn the racist, so it's not like it's impossible for people to contain themselves. But I don't want to be Lex from Survivor about it, and I don't think Vanessa would be either. As I am not a feed watcher and only rely on this informative thread, reading about it just makes me roll my eyes because it sounds kinda obnoxious, smug and more than a little pride-goeth-before-a-fall. But since I'm not rooting for Steve, maybe that's a good thing.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Eolivet

[PrairieCat]

I really don't think that's the case. You have to be 21 to be on the show now. If he is actually 18-19 that would mean that he lied on his application and probably had to get false documentation.

I'm sure you're right.

 

For some reason, I thought the lower age limit was 18. Should've checked my facts. Besides, if I were really guessing, I'd start with age 15.

[RedheadZombie]

FWIW, Steve also referenced a past BB houseguest as the "token black".

 

See I interpret that comment as criticizing casting.  I'm sure I've read comments here about the token gay HG and the token stereotypical mouthy black woman.  Those aren't slams against the HGs themselves, but against the typical cherry picking of "types" they want in the house.  Just like you know Survivor is going to cast and edit for the angry lazy black man.

[mooses]

From a John interview:

[Referring to bring Steve/Liz to finals] "I honestly feel like I could beat both of them. I don’t think they played that well. It’s a toss-up. I guess to be nice I would have brought Steve, but I don’t care either way."

...Puh-lease. He might be Fan Favorite, but it wasn't for gameplay.

Edited September 18, 2015 by mooses

[robertorv]

In another interview he said that he would have won against anyone left in the house because he had the first 5 jury members votes on lock.

[LoveLeigh]

Iirc, Liz's goodbye messages to tend to be really obnoxious. There was another earlier in the season that I thought was super bitchy, but now I can't remember who it was. Hopefully that person remembers!

Was it her good-bye message to James? 

[Nashville]

That is absolutely a fair point. I guess the idea of someone relishing the idea of booting another player -- one with whom one has shared personal conversations and developed a relationship on a friendship level -- kind of rubs me the wrong way.

I think Steve's "glee" is more along the lines of a compliment to Vanessa's game. Steve sees V as the best player, so evicting her would be beating the best. This is the Steve version of visualizing success.

[pennben]

So, one highlight from Austin's interview with Jeff on CBS:

 

 

Vanessa's decision to evict the former wrestler completely blindsided him, but he believes the poker player's move actually blew her chances of being the last person to walk out of the Big Brother house.

"I was her only shot at winning the game," Austin said, adamantly. "I could have persuaded everyone in the Jury house to vote for her and they would have seen that she stayed true to her original alliance, so that would have helped her case."

 

So, from all his post-eviction interviews I gather that: on the one hand, he was going to win this game yet, on the other hand, he was planning to advocate for Vanessa when he was in the jury house but for her awful betrayal, and then, on the third hand, that's the one we don't talk about, all he cared about was protecting Liz and sitting next to her when she beat him in the Final 2.  He has also said he was also planning on taking Vanessa to the finals with him, so she could lose to him.

 

He's got all of these alternate endings playing out in his mind other than the one in this dimension....he lost, and went out barefoot, bitter and befuddled.

Edited September 18, 2015 by pennben

[Skycatcher]

 

Besides, if I were really guessing, I'd start with age 15.

And, emotionally, you might be right.  I know a couple of kids, home-schooled, never participated in activities outside the home - a helicopter mom who never left the landing pad.  Their emotional age is way behind their chronological age.

 

 

Austin said, adamantly. "I could have persuaded everyone in the Jury house to vote for her

Thank goodness this never came to pass.  He's already unbearable, but if he thought he'd engineered the jury house to vote the win to Vanessa, his already over-inflated ego would have exploded all over us! Now, if she wins in spite of him, it'll be all the more sweet.

[njbarmaid]

Iirc, Liz's goodbye messages to tend to be really obnoxious. There was another earlier in the season that I thought was super bitchy, but now I can't remember who it was. Hopefully that person remembers!

It was to Jason "Hope you have fun watching BB from your mom's basement" was the jist of the message.

[pennben]

Yikes, you are right, njbarmaid, that's the one.  Most have learned they can say whatever prejury, but recalibrate once saying goodbye to folks on jury.  At the same time, I'm not sure she lost a vote she never had, but I'm also not sure she understood that she shouldn't do that when the jury was formed.

Edited September 18, 2015 by pennben

[blixie]

 

So, from all his post-eviction interviews I gather that: on the one hand, he was going to win this game yet, on the other hand, he was planning to advocate for Vanessa when he was in the jury house but for her awful betrayal, and then, on the third hand, that's the one we don't talk about, all he cared about was protecting Liz and sitting next to her when she beat him in the Final 2.  He has also said he was also planning on taking Vanessa to the finals with him, so she could lose to him.

 

 

This assshole. He makes no sense, I mean I knew that when he gave that speech to John/Steve, but somehow the ONLY way Van could win was if she was true to her original alliance to him taking him to F2 where he would beat her, because he wouldn't be in the jury house, advocating for her to win? UGH I hope every one in the jury votes for Van in the end JUST to spite him, especially against Liz, him trying to argue to all of them to give his GIRLFRIEND the money which is almost like giving HIM the money would be rich. You know if Van wins he will be UP her ass to bask in the tiny amount of  publicity and partying after the fact she'll be doing. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by blixie

[Skycatcher]

 

give his GIRLFRIEND the money which is almost like giving HIM the money

OMG - she'd never get rid of him!  LOL - Save Liz. Vote for Vanessa!

[pennben]

I simply cannot wait until he sees the big hug Liz gave Vanessa after she won the veto.  Of course, first up on my plays will be him watching Liz cheering on Caleb and telling him he's doing stunts that Austin can't do.

[peachmangosteen]

Iirc, Liz's goodbye messages to tend to be really obnoxious. There was another earlier in the season that I thought was super bitchy, but now I can't remember who it was. Hopefully that person remembers!

 

I'm fairly sure prior to the John one Liz's only 'bitchy' DR was to Jason, who constantly referred to her as 'the fat one' and called her a prostitute and a cunt, so I'm not gonna be outraged on his behalf. The twins hate John and he hates them, I'm still not sure why, but it's a mutual thing.

 

I really don't think that's the case. You have to be 21 to be on the show now. If he is actually 18-19 that would mean that he lied on his application and probably had to get false documentation. Production does background checks and contacts references. It's hard to imagine anyone could hide their age through all of that.

 

Daniele Donato was only 20 when she did the show, so they will absolutely make changes to their 'rules.' But I highly doubt that's Steve secret. Based on everything we've been able to hear him say I don't see how it can be anything but him being gay.

 

From a John interview:

[Referring to bring Steve/Liz to finals] "I honestly feel like I could beat both of them. I don’t think they played that well. It’s a toss-up. I guess to be nice I would have brought Steve, but I don’t care either way."

...Puh-lease. He might be Fan Favorite, but it wasn't for gameplay.

 

 

In another interview he said that he would have won against anyone left in the house because he had the first 5 jury members votes on lock.

 

Yea, John's interviews are hilarious. He has a highly inflated opinion of what he did in the game.

Edited September 18, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[SiobhanJW]

Daniele Donato was only 20 when she did the show, so they will absolutely make changes to their 'rules.' But I highly doubt that's Steve secret. Based on everything we've been able to hear him say I don't see how it can be anything but him being gay.

I believe when Danielle first did the game the age requirement was 18 and it has changed in the past few years. Especially since I read somewhere that John has been trying out since Season 9 to get on which was 8 years ago and he's currently 27. So it must of still been 18 years old then. Edited September 18, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[peachmangosteen]

I believe when Danielle first did the game the age requirement was 18 and it has changed in the past few years.

 

I feel like I remember it being a big thing that Daniele got on when she was under the age limit. She told all the HGs she was 21, I know that. 

 

Steve did his version of Vanessa's skittle graphs last night.

 

 

The tweet said that it seemed like Becky was the raw almond. LOL why does Steve hate Becky so much? I still don't get it. And Becky actually said Steve was the HG she would miss the most lmao. 

[marie]

From a John interview:

[Referring to bring Steve/Liz to finals] "I honestly feel like I could beat both of them. I don’t think they played that well. It’s a toss-up. I guess to be nice I would have brought Steve, but I don’t care either way."

...Puh-lease. He might be Fan Favorite, but it wasn't for gameplay.

 

He's not wrong. Becky, Shelli, Meg, James, Jackie would all vote for him over Liz or Steve, and possibly even Vanessa. Him being such a strong jury threat was why Vanessa wanted him out so badly. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by marie

[Ceeg]

If Becky, Shelli, Meg, James, and Jackie all voted for John over Vanessa, after Vanessa won 5 HOHs and 3 Vetoes and literally had a part in evicting every single person in the house except Jase and Day, and John got evicted once already and didn't win a single HOH? That would be an even bigger WTF disappointment than Ian beating Dan. John would have a closer vote with Steve and Liz, but I still think it'd be bullshit to give him the win over Liz or Steve, since John didn't do a damn thing in the house all summer except win some vetoes to save himself.

 

I think Vanessa evicted John because she knew he wouldn't take her to F2, while Liz will. I don't think it had much to do with being a jury threat tbh.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Ceeg

[choclatechip45]

The first houseguest under 21 was Michelle from BB4 she was one of the Exes. It seems like only if it is part of a twist they will bend the rules.

[Cutty]

Becky is also the only evicted jury member I've seen in any of the exit interviews say Steve is playing a great game.

 

I don't see any basis for the idea that The Goblins would vote for John. They weren't close with each other at all. I'm not even sure Becky would. She openly shit on John's game while in the house despite the fact he had an obvious crush on her. He's delusional. 

[marie]

I think houseguests look at the returning houseguest as just another twist you have to roll with, just like twins, siblings of famous people, coup d'etats, Team America, etc. 

 

I also think John has as good of a resume for a win as Liz and Steve. I agree Vanessa should've beaten him and she probably would have. But I think he could've beaten Liz and Steve, and I don't think either of them would've been robbed if he had.

[Cutty]

I also think John has as good of a resume for a win as Liz and Steve. I agree Vanessa should've beaten him and she probably would have. But I think he could've beaten Liz and Steve, and I don't think either of them would've been robbed if he had.

 

He was EVICTED, didn't win a single HOH, and had zero influence on who went home for most of the season. What exactly is on his resume? 

I think houseguests look at the returning houseguest as just another twist you have to roll with, just like twins, siblings of famous people, coup d'etats, Team America, etc. 

 

The difference is the entire point of the game is to not be evicted. Once you have been evicted, I'm not voting for you.

 

The coup d'jeff rig is still ridiculous. I wouldn't have voted for him either. Odds are I would have done what Chima did. LOL.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Cutty

[Ceeg]

I also think John has as good of a resume for a win as Liz and Steve. I agree Vanessa should've beaten him and she probably would have. But I think he could've beaten Liz and Steve, and I don't think either of them would've been robbed if he had.

Steve - 3 HOHs, 2 Vetoes, 1 BotB, never been evicted, was directly responsible for at least 2 of the jurors sitting there, successfully navigated through the house after being IDed as a Superfan threat by aligning secretly with a power alliance

Liz - 3 HOHs, 1 Veto, 1 BotB, never been evicted, was directly responsible for at least 2 of the jurors sitting there, successfully navigated through the house after being both a twin and in a dominant showmance, secretly aligned with two separate power alliances

John - 0 HOHs, 4 Vetoes, 1 BotB, already was evicted once, had nothing to do with evicting literally anyone in the entire house, never formed a solid alliance with anyone other than Steve and partially Becky

.................

I guess never underestimate the power of a bitter jury, but other than John's veto wins, he really doesn't have much more of a resume than Meg. At least Meg had a strong alliance in the ADC and played a kickass social game. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Ceeg

[alihart41]

I personally don't care if an evcited juror ever wins. (It's already happened on Top Chef.) The buyback comp is just an element that's part of the game and I think the argument goes both ways: Don't vote for JMac to win because he was already evicted or he was evicted, won his way back and outlasted everyone (including the HOH who evicted him) to the end. James and Meg have said they would vote for him to win because of the latter, but that was also the week they were on the block and pissed at Vanessa.

Plus, if JMac were in the final two, you have to take into account how he wound up there. If he had won final four veto, he would've booted Vanessa, so that would look good on his resume. If Vanessa were in the final three with him and he got to choose who to take to the final two, he would boot her then too. In his own words: "Whoever gets her eviction is a god."

Edited September 18, 2015 by alihart41

[marie]

the entire point of the game is to not be evicted

 

The entire point of the game is to get to the end and have people vote for you to win. If you piss off so many people they don't want to vote for you, you played a bad game. If you played such a horrible social game that people had a better relationship with the person next to you, you played a bad game. If you were unnecessarily catty and rude to people who held your fate in their hands? You played a bad game. 

 

The jury likes John more. Steve has virtually no connection with anyone besides Shelli and Vanessa (who doesn't seem to really like him much of the time). Even John, who he adores and whom he thinks will be campaigning for him, admits he didn't really care about who he went to F2 with. Julia is more liked than Liz by people like Vanessa, Meg, James despite not even having a NAME for the first 5 weeks in the house. 

 

If winning this game was about HoH's, Dr. Will wouldn't still be held up as the ultimate player. 

[blixie]

 

(It's already happened on Top Chef.)

 

I would never compare a professional skills competition show like Runway, TC, and what not to BB/Survivor, the contestants aren't voting each other out and the entire outcome EVER WEEK is in the hands of judges. I don't love Second Chance Kitchen, but them eliminating Kristen was such a HOOOGE mistake I was glad to see her back. 

 

Having said that I still don't care about the returned Juror's winning either, it's just been an aspect of things for SO long, and to me it's just one more thing these people have to "adjust' to and while I love strategy and great gamers, I also don't think of BB as a GAME as sacrosanct, and really we haven't seen one win (or touch F2) yet, so I think the mechanics of  game theory and rational game play eventually boot those bitches anyway. I do think  John was delusional and while he COULD of maybe beat Steve/Liz, I think he would have definitely lost to Vanessa, which they both knew and since Van's name is not Meg or James or Jackie she eliminated the primary threat to her going to F2.

Edited September 18, 2015 by blixie

[mooses]

I personally don't care if an evcited juror ever wins. (It's already happened on Top Chef.) The buyback comp is just an element that's part of the game and I think the argument goes both ways: Don't vote for JMac to win because he was already evicted or he was evicted, won his way back and outlasted everyone (including the HOH who evicted him) to the end. James and Meg have said they would vote for him to win because of the latter, but that was also the week they were on the block and pissed at Vanessa.

Plus, if JMac were in the final two, you have to take into account how he wound up there. If he had won final four veto, he would've booted Vanessa, so that would look good on his resume. If Vanessa were in the final three with him and he got to choose who to take to the final two, he would boot her then too. In his own words: "Whoever gets her eviction is a god."

Eh, Top Chef is different than Big Brother. It's based on a skill that can be measured outside of the game. Better chefs really do get eliminated first. In Big Brother, the main skill that makes you better player is not getting evicted - there's no real skill if you can't manage that. So of you were evicted, you're a lesser player than the person sitting next to you in F2.

There's no outside basis like on Top Chef where you can look at their actual talent and know Kristin really was more talented than the rest in cooking.

John was evicted the second time because Vanessa knew he'd be too tempting for the rest of the house to take over her if he were there. She thought he'd be the easiest to win against in Final 2, but it'd be even harder to get to Final 2 of he stayed because he was seen as an easy win.

Edited September 18, 2015 by mooses

[mooses]

If winning this game was about HoH's, Dr. Will wouldn't still be held up as the ultimate player.

But Will wasn't evicted despite that. That's why he's such a good player. And jurors didn't like him, but still respected his hand enough to give him the win. Also why he's one of the best.

[alihart41]

I'm not comparing Big Brother and Top Chef as shows at all, just that Top Chef had a previously eliminated contestant return and win. I was fine with it then and fine with it now, but some people weren't and did not like the concept of LCK, which I totally understand as well.

[blixie]

Hah ha the feed camera men are having fun with Camera 1 focused on Steve's abandoned Teddy Bear. Hee.

 

Otherwise they are awake but laying down, I think Part 2 is supposed to happen today,but I'm not sure when. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by blixie

[PaperTree]

The first houseguest under 21 was Michelle from BB4 she was one of the Exes. It seems like only if it is part of a twist they will bend the rules.

I remember way back one season there was lots of phony moral outrage about underage drinking being flaunted and glorified and destroying America or something.

 

They may have quietly changed the policy to avoid this in the future.  But of course on BB the policy can change back in an instant.

[Cutty]

I hate the returning juror twist and I hated Redemption Island on Survivor. But at least on RI, everyone gets the chance to get back in. Why didn't Davonne, Audrey, Jeff, Jason get to compete to return? It's just stupid twist with arbitrary rules that I'd wish they would stop doing. Honestly, it actually ruins a lot of the suspense. You had Shelli and Vanessa talking about how at least they would have this chance to get back in if they were evicted. You shouldn't give players that safety net. It potentially affects gameplay in a negative way.

[SiobhanJW]

Last year I think Part 2 was pretty late in the evening on Friday. So they have been pretty consistent this season with following a similar schedule so I'm guessing they will be doing the comp this evening and we will find out the results late tonight or early tomorrow morning.

[Cutty]

So the assumption is Vanessa would take Liz and Liz would take Vanessa? Is that pretty much locked in at this point? 

[Ceeg]

So the assumption is Vanessa would take Liz and Liz would take Vanessa? Is that pretty much locked in at this point? 

I think so. Before yesterday, I would have thought Vanessa was taking Steve, but the vibes I've gotten since John's eviction are that she'd take Liz. Who knows with Vanessa though. I don't think she really cares tbh. I think she believes if she's in F2, she has enough of a compelling argument for her game to win against either of them. 

[SiobhanJW]

I think so. Before yesterday, I would have thought Vanessa was taking Steve, but the vibes I've gotten since John's eviction are that she'd take Liz. Who knows with Vanessa though. I don't think she really cares tbh. I think she believes if she's in F2, she has enough of a compelling argument for her game to win against either of them.

Her thinking might be okay I would rather take her and be down by 2 votes then evict her and be down by 3 votes. In her head she's probably thinking I have 3 votes for sure: Steve, Shelli & John so I'll be up one and just have to try and get

those other two which won't be hard against Liz.

Unless she wants to play crazy and try and be the first woman to beat a man in F2.

Edited September 18, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[mooses]

So the assumption is Vanessa would take Liz and Liz would take Vanessa? Is that pretty much locked in at this point?

I think so too. Just from conversations, it feels like she's angling more for Steve's jury vote by bragging about her game. Which doesn't help him take her two Final 2, but I think she knows she's done if her or Liz don't win HoH.

[blixie]

I don't think she would have cut this one final semi deal with Liz to drop, if she didn't plan to take her, fucking Liz over ONE last time would be really bad Jury juju, and she'd totally be at three votes against then, if she lost two out of James/Meg/Jackie/Becky, she'd be toast. Better to have Steve in the jury voting FOR her than Liz in the jury voting AGAINST her.

Edited September 18, 2015 by blixie

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

If Becky, Shelli, Meg, James, and Jackie all voted for John over Vanessa, after Vanessa won 5 HOHs and 3 Vetoes and literally had a part in evicting every single person in the house except Jase and Day, and John got evicted once already and didn't win a single HOH? That would be an even bigger WTF disappointment than Ian beating Dan. 

 

Not really. Winning competitions is one one component of Big Brother. In addition to wining his fair share, he had stronger, friendlier relationships with the members of the jury.

 

Vanessa does not.

http://uploadir.com/u/xcus8asd

 

My BB17 queen.

 

She'll be more appreciated in retrospect IMO.

[Donny Ketchum]

John is GONE now.  Finally.  Why discuss his winning chances?  There are none, so that's irrelevant.

[MKL122788]

Not really. Winning competitions is one one component of Big Brother. In addition to wining his fair share, he had stronger, friendlier relationships with the members of the jury.

 

Vanessa does not.

http://uploadir.com/u/xcus8asd

 

My BB17 queen.

 

She'll be more appreciated in retrospect IMO.

I think it is funny that someone believes Shelli would vote for John over Vanessa if that were a mythical final 2. Shelli, the person who gave Austin the verbal beatdown for trying to indict Vanessa's character in a game about strategy(and other things also, obviously). She always says she is cheering for John and Steve, but Vanessa deserves it. That tells you all you need to know.

 

When is the second HoH competition? Tomorrow? Tonight?

Edited September 18, 2015 by MKL122788

[Ceeg]

John is GONE now.  Finally.  Why discuss his winning chances?  There are none, so that's irrelevant.

Because the alternative is talking about the HGs' current sleeping positions, or that Steve is helping supply Liz and Vanessa with ice packs for their necks and vajayjays?

 

Which, btw, it seems like Vanessa really fucked up her neck in that comp Wednesday night. She said she can't move it around much at all. Good thing she won, because otherwise she'd have no shot at winning Round 2.

[blixie]

 

John is GONE now.  Finally.  Why discuss his winning chances?  There are none, so that's irrelevant.

 

Seriously the guy has FAILED at this game *twice* in one season.

 

I loved Becky's crack about the barefoot pig. I'm not sure how much re-evaluating Becky there needs to be done, she was observant/smart hamster who I liked and still wish she'd made a deal with Van to save herself,  but still  failed to do the work necessary to convince her "allies" to evict Vanessa like they planned. I think her being so goddamn boring contributed to people not listening when she actually had something important to say and even as HoH they ultimately blew her off.

[Cutty]

This is probably more on Shelli but Becky should have clued Shelli into the fact that she needed make up with James and Meg, cut a deal with them for their votes. Whatever.

I remember a conversation Shelli had with John a short time after Steve won the veto but before the veto ceremony. Shelli seemsed to wonder why The Goblins would vote Vanessa out over her but John assured her that they definitely wanted Vanessa out. Not because he had talked to them or anything but because he said he read their body language when they were in the kitchen with Vanessa. And they gave a weird look when she left the kitchen. LOL.

I think from that moment Shelli took John's word for it and didn't bother to even try to talk to them until it was way too late.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Cutty

[kellog010]

I think Becky's mistake was putting Shelli on the block. To quote Vanessa, you have to look at incentives. The reason Vanessa put Julia on the block instead of John or Steve when targeting Meg - she knew it'd be too tempting. The Goblins, while they disliked Vanessa, didn't need a big push to take the opportunity to take out Shelli. If Becky had used a different pawn like Meg or John then Vanessa would have been toast when she was renom'd. Also I think the better move for Becky (or any of the Goblins) should have been taking a shot at Austwins. Get that trio down to a more manageable duo.

[Vicky]

So, one highlight from Austin's interview with Jeff on CBS:

 

 

So, from all his post-eviction interviews I gather that: on the one hand, he was going to win this game yet, on the other hand, he was planning to advocate for Vanessa when he was in the jury house but for her awful betrayal, and then, on the third hand, that's the one we don't talk about, all he cared about was protecting Liz and sitting next to her when she beat him in the Final 2.  He has also said he was also planning on taking Vanessa to the finals with him, so she could lose to him.

 

He's got all of these alternate endings playing out in his mind other than the one in this dimension....he lost, and went out barefoot, bitter and befuddled.

Oh so very true and well said!

[Waldo13]

I simply cannot wait until he sees the big hug Liz gave Vanessa after she won the veto. Of course, first up on my plays will be him watching Liz cheering on Caleb and telling him he's doing stunts that Austin can't do.

This is why I don't understand what Liz sees in Asstin. I really don't think that Asstin is Liz's type after commenting about Jessie's body and Caleb's moves. Each time Liz gave Asstin a slight dis.

As far as sleeping in the same room, I do not find it odd because there were only 4 and sleeping in the HOH room would be ultimate isolation and I don't think Steve felt secure. At F3, the HOH room is closed. As for Steve not drinking, I don't, not because I can't but I loath the feeling of being drunk. Conversely I don't mind overeating and feeling stuffed.