House Bolton: Our House Disappeared

[joliefaire]

Roose and Ramsay.  Lovely guys.  Your input?

[joliefaire]

A Roose and Ramsay Season 4 gif set from Tumblr.

Here come some more father-son issues, courtesy of our favorite Flayers!

http://wyllamanderly.co.vu/post/79964014430/game-of-thrones-bastards-of-westeros-x

Edited April 3, 2014 by joliefaire

[Luciaphile]

I am not particularly interested in Ramsay. Roose fascinates me, though. It does not help that they cast the quite attractive Michael McElhatton with the mellifluous voice.

[joliefaire]

Yes, and the Vladamir Putin side-to-side swagger.  If there's ever a movie made about Putin, McElhatton's got the part in a lock!

[Constantinople]

A pity that Roose's name isn't Robert.

Then he'd Bobby Flay.

[CletusMusashi]

Ramsay might be fun in smaller doses, but ten minutes at a time of him torturing Theon just takes up way too much time on a show that doesn't make that many episodes anyway. Roose, on the other hand, is awesome. I'd rather watch him being evil than Robb and Cat being boring, so, yay, net gain for me!

[Joystickenvy]

Agree that Roose is far more interesting than Ramsey. To some extent I think Ramsey only exists to provide Theon a story arc and is one of the most one -dimensional characters on the show.

Roose is more like Tywin. He's a real nasty piece of work at times, but he's not just a psycho or a run of the mill villian.

[joliefaire]

OMG, the terrifying 'Roose Bolton' in his younger days.  Let us enjoy a light moment with the treacherous Flayer. 

[Catherinewriter]

Re Bolton's betrayal of the Starks, I've always been confused about when that happened. In one scene (perhaps the end of one episode)he was with Jamie and Brienne and talking about going to the wedding. Then came the Red Wedding and its variety of activities. When did he get with the Freys, or the Lannisters, in that time period to be bought out by the Freys? Certainly Jamie didn't put him up to it.

And I also wondered how Catelyn knew that she had been betrayed by Roose just by the fact that he had arm armor on. Pretty quick thinking, no?

[Lady S.]

Re Bolton's betrayal of the Starks, I've always been confused about when that happened. In one scene (perhaps the end of one episode)he was with Jamie and Brienne and talking about going to the wedding. Then came the Red Wedding and its variety of activities. When did he get with the Freys, or the Lannisters, in that time period to be bought out by the Freys? Certainly Jamie didn't put him up to it.

And I also wondered how Catelyn knew that she had been betrayed by Roose just by the fact that he had arm armor on. Pretty quick thinking, no?

Roose's first betrayal was sending Ramsay to torch Winterfell and capture Theon. That was a much bigger tactical decision than taking Theon's manhood so Roose should have brought that up when talking about giving him too much leeway, if Ramsay was ever meant to follow Robb's instructions. What we do know from is that Roose knew Theon was at the Dreadfort that whole time, meaning he lied to Robb's face when he said Theon and his men destroyed Winterfall and escaped before Ramsay got there. So when he tells Walder Frey Ramsay has his own way of doing things or whatever, I don't think it was a blithe reference to castle arson but instead meant Ramsay didn't have to kill Theon's men who betrayed him and were trying to go home, but he did so anyway for the love of flaying. Destroying the Stark base instead of retaking it was a great opportunity for any treacherous bannerman looking to take over the North. Everything Robb said about taking Casterly Rock to show Tywin wasn't invincible and destroy the faith of his men applied just as much with Winterfell. And it worked, going by Rickard "should I say the King who lost the North?" Karstark. (Note that Robb first received the news about Winterfell and Roose suggested letting Ramsay handle it, in 2.06, before Robb took off on a nature walk with Talisa and Catelyn freed Jaime. The loss of Winterfell was the first step to Robb's doom and Roose was already plotting to replace him when he was an unmarried and had Jaime in custody.)

Roose sending Jaime back to King's Landing, only after assurances Tywin would be told he had nothing to do with the loss of Jaime's hand, was Roose formally throwing in with the Lannisters. As Locke said, any man who captured Jaime and then let him go for a reward from Tywin, could not hope to stay in Robb's good graces. But Roose did nothing to hide Jaime's presence at Harrenhal, because he knew what would happen at Edmure's wedding and planned to take part. Jaime knew nothing about any of that, being a prisoner and not in contact with his father, but when Roose reminds Jaime to give his regards to Tywin, he's getting (another) one over on the Young Wolf, so Jaime tells him to give Robb the Lannisters' regards.

And Roose knows about Walder Frey's wedding plans because he had already into his own Frey marriage alliance through Fat Walda. We know this was a recent marriage because Cat knew nothing about it (and I think Lord and Lady Stark would know Roose's pre-war marital status) and he is seen bringing her to the Dreadfort for what looks to be the first time. If I had to guess I'd say Walder sent Roose the weight in silver dowry option while he was at Harrenhal, figuring right that Roose was his kind of guy. Or maybe Walder offered this to all of Robb's bannermen after Robb agreed to his betrothal, hoping to unload as many daughters as possible, and Roose was the only one to take him up on it after he'd decided to turn on Robb and witnessed Robb/Talisa. Maybe Roose even arrived to the Twins before Robb's party from Riverrun and had his quickie wedding amidst the planning for Edmure's wedding reception. Either way, wearing chainmail is a sign he knew ahead of time what was going down because a wedding is supposed to be different from a battle, and the rest of Robb and Edmure's men were celebrating unprotected. (And he showed Cat what was up his sleeve after Tywin's theme song started playing, which was she first something was wrong.) Roose brought his own men with him from Harrenhal to the Twins, and I doubt he let Frey slaughter them too, I think it more likely Roose brought men he could trust to turn with him on their fellow northmen than that he had unseen scrupulous Dreadfort men he needed to do away with.

[Guest Anarres]

I am not particularly interested in Ramsay. Roose fascinates me, though. It does not help that they cast the quite attractive Michael McElhatton with the mellifluous voice.

Glad to see I'm not alone in my Roose love. He really is one sexy bastard. Kind of disappointed we haven't seen much of him this season but hopefully that will change.

[DigitalCount]

I actually felt we saw a very human Ramsey in the most recent episode. If it was a scene involving good guys, it would have been an uplifting moment when Roose tells Ramsey that they rule the North, and it fits Ramsey's desperate need for acceptance from his father. In a way, Ramsey is kind of a dark Jon, but Ned's dead and Roose is very much alive and well, obviously. Essentially, Ramsey has everything Jon wanted, and he got it by being utterly despicable, turning on his comrades and having a father dishonorable enough to do the same.

 

How very GoT.

[Lady S.]

I kinda doubt Roose's love for Ramsay or anyone else, but I don't doubt Ramsay loves his Daddy as much as he could love anyone.

[Constantinople]

Things are going well for the Boltons now, but there are several weaknesses

* No one likes them and everyone loves the Starks. Even Ramsay understands this is a potential problem, and Ramsay's political sophistication is just a few levels higher than Orson Lannister's.

* The other important families in the North have no particular reason to bow to them.

* I don't know if the Northerners know that Roose betrayed Robb, or personally stabbed him, but they'll be suspicious of someone married to a Frey, and who was appointed Warden of the North by the Lannister regime.

* The Lannisters will do nothing to help them. Roose said it himself.

* Bran & Rickon are alive. It may be reasonable to think they're most likely dead, but they're not.

* There's a reason for the scene when Roose told Ramsay that the North is larger than the other six kingdoms combined. More space makes it easier for their opponents to hide, particularly in a less dense populated place like the North, and harder for the Bolton's to maintain control.

* Sooner or later winter will come. It will be harder to expand and maintain control.

A successful ruler needs to offer the right mix of love, largesse and fear. The Boltons may be able to offer some largesse in the form of land, and they're as brutal as any, but that's it. Just because the other Northern families don't flay men alive doesn't mean they're not tough or they're afraid of the Boltons.

The Boltons may have bitten off more than they can chew.

[bluvelvet]

I'm really curious about these Bolton traditions. Roose obviously knows about Ramsey's tactics and it doesn't seem to phase him. Makes me wonder if Roose's father was also a sadist psychopath.

Well Ramsey did say that his father taught him to throw things at people's heads AND they do have a flayed man as a sigil so I guess that answers my question.

[Maximum Taco]

I'm really curious about these Bolton traditions. Roose obviously knows about Ramsey's tactics and it doesn't seem to phase him. Makes me wonder if Roose's father was also a sadist psychopath.

Well Ramsey did say that his father taught him to throw things at people's heads AND they do have a flayed man as a sigil so I guess that answers my question.

 

Not to mention, in season 2 Roose suggests to Robb that they flay their enemies to get information.

 

Roose: The officers may be useful, they may be privy to Tywin Lannister's plans... In my family we say a naked man has few secrets, a flayed man none.

Robb: My father outlawed flaying in the North.

Roose: We're not in the North.

 

I don't think Roose has any issues with Ramsay's tactics, he just wishes he was smarter about it.

 

Flaying enemy commanders to gain enemy plans: Good!

Flaying the only son and heir of a noble house: Bad.

 

Roose disapproved of flaying Theon, who probably was very valuable as a hostage, but in the end it paid off, so who is he to argue with results?

[Lady S.]

Yeah, Roose's disapproval of Theon's reekification was purely pragmatic. "This was Balon Greyjoy's son and heir." (Said while no-longer-Theon is right there. Ouch.) He had no problem with Rammers flaying and killing Theon's men at Winterfell after they surrendered, so he probably also sanctioned Ramsay doing the same to the garrison of Moat Cailin. That's a big difference between them, Roose draws a clear line between captives important enough to be ransomed and those that can either be ransomed for sapphires or thrown into a bear pit for entertainment. The scary thing is that only sons of the Great Houses qualify as important enough, the officers in that Lannister army were surely highborn as well. Even Tywin only authorized Gregor's tactics at Harrenhal after thinking Amory Lorch's murder was a failed attempt on him. But for Roose torturing and killing prisoners is the norm, not the exception.
 
For anyone wanting more info on the honored traditions of House Bolton:

Unlike some other Houses, my ancestors owned the Bolton words, Our Blades Are Sharp. They passed down not a Valyrian greatsword, but a knife, honed and thin enough to fit between the top-most layer of skin, and the tissue below, and peel. (I still feel there's no good reason the old Kings of Winter let their rivals survive in such a powerful position.)

[lawless]

I don't think Roose has any issues with Ramsay's tactics, he just wishes he was smarter about it.

Yes, I agree.  I think Roose is an extremely self-disciplined and self-possessed man, which has taken him far.  I think he is disappointed and irritated with Ramsey when he feels Ramsey is indulging himself at the expense of strategy.  But I don't think there is any moral outrage at Ramsey's behavior at all.  Roose really doesn't care about the torture and suffering Ramsey inflicts for the sake of the victims at all, he only cares about how it effects his plans. 

[Constantinople]

It may not mean much, but Ramsay tends to emphasize personal relationships, but Roose tends to emphasis land ownership.

 

When Roose was dressing down Ramsay for mutilating Theon, Roose said he wanted to trade Theon for Moat Caillan.  Ramsay emphasized that Theon was an enemy, but Reek was their friend, and eventually Ramsay did use Theon/Reek to capture Moat Caillan.

 

In their final scene together in the season, Roose tells Ramsay to look around and tell Roose what he sees.  Ramsay answers fields, trees, etc and when pressed again, says nothing.  Roose says they're looking at The North.

 

I wouldn't say Ramsay is a people person, and as I said I don't know if it really makes that much of a difference, but I thought it was interesting.

[Luciaphile]

 

It may not mean much, but Ramsay tends to emphasize personal relationships, but Roose tends to emphasis land ownership.

I think that's because Roose is more of a gameplayer than Ramsay is. Ramsay's torturing of Theon no matter what he claims, seems to have been done for personal satisfaction (creating a terrified but slave was a side benefit to him). Roose looks at people much more pragmatically. They are game pieces. Theon would have gotten him Moat Caillin (probably with less effort too). That's probably a weakness for Ramsay down the road. He takes things personally. Roose probably doesn't care.

[EngradyPind]

I am hoping the Red Priestess Melisandre gets to barbecue both the Boltons, father and son, as a particularly tasty tidbit to her hungry god. 

 

I am waiting for more mention and even some evidence of this powerful god of light to put in an appearance.  Aren't the re-emergence of the White Walkers supposed to have something to do with his coming? 

[Luciaphile]

I am hoping the Red Priestess Melisandre gets to barbecue both the Boltons, father and son, as a particularly tasty tidbit to her hungry god. 

 

 

I wouldn't mind if we got to see some more of Roose and to paraphrase a line from a Barbara Paul novel, I mean that in more than one sense, before he meets whatever fate GRRM has in store for him.

[Lady S.]

I wouldn't mind if we got to see some more of Roose and to paraphrase a line from a Barbara Paul novel, I mean that in more than one sense, before he meets whatever fate GRRM has in store for him.

Honestly, the show should do a better job of making Roose's evil more apparent than his other qualities before killing him off. Euthanizing the Dumb Wolf sl before it got any stupider is not enough of a reason to hate a character. Ramsay's just disturbing and most of his scenes are gruesome but Papa Bolton never fails to bring more quality with his screen presence. Even Tywin and Good King Joffrey had moments where I wanted them to suffer, much as I enjoyed the actors, but I've got no complaints in any Roose scene, he got one good bitchslapping before the Red Wedding and somehow that feels like enough.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Lady S.

[Pete Martell]

I know everyone is hotter on TV than in the books, but it's still jarring at times to see book fanart of Bolton father and son and then see how they are on the show. Roose in particular is a sex god in comparison.

 

I'm glad they didn't include the leech thing on the show. 

[Lady S.]

I'd had my doubts about an attractive Ramsay, but as his scenes are always gross enough anyway, I think it helps to look at Iwan Rheon instead of having to picture this. 

 

I'd say he's the one who really took a leap in hotness, Roose is usually just drawn like a vampire, and there is sexual appeal in vampires for certain people. Gothic horror villains may have been intentional in the text, but that wouldn't really work on the show.

[Luciaphile]

Honestly, the show should do a better job of making Roose's evil more apparent than his other qualities before killing him off. Euthanizing the Dumb Wolf sl before it got any stupider is not enough of a reason to hate a character. Ramsay's just disturbing and most of his scenes are gruesome but Papa Bolton never fails to bring more quality with his screen presence. Even Tywin and Good King Joffrey had moments where I wanted them to suffer, much as I enjoyed the actors, but I've got no complaints in any Roose scene, he got one good bitchslapping before the Red Wedding and somehow that feels like enough.

 

As many problems as I have with the adaptation, I rather like Roose looking so ordinary (esp. in a hot dad kind of way). That's partially what makes him so scary. If you rewatch his scenes in Season 2 for example, there he is sounding for all the world like a perfectly reasonable if ruthless soldier. And then you really listen and the hints that something is off are there. It's a portrayal and a performance that builds. I would imagine that's only going to get more intense as the story progresses.

[Pete Martell]

 

I'd say he's the one who really took a leap in hotness, Roose is usually just drawn like a vampire, and there is sexual appeal in vampires for certain people. Gothic horror villains may have been intentional in the text, but that wouldn't really work on the show.

 

Most of the fanart I'd seen for Ramsay is somewhat more attractive (I guess because Ramsay is quite popular with some fans). That drawing...I can see your point.

 

I rarely see attractive book fanart of Roose, although I just looked and there's a bit here and there.

As many problems as I have with the adaptation, I rather like Roose looking so ordinary (esp. in a hot dad kind of way). That's partially what makes him so scary. If you rewatch his scenes in Season 2 for example, there he is sounding for all the world like a perfectly reasonable if ruthless soldier. And then you really listen and the hints that something is off are there. It's a portrayal and a performance that builds. I would imagine that's only going to get more intense as the story progresses.

 

The guy who plays Roose, when asked about fan backlash to Roose murdering Robb and family, said he hadn't gotten any negative fan reaction, he'd just gotten respect and fear. I think he really sells that in his performance - that this is all strategy and game and that this is a very frightening man. 

[Constantinople]

I think Lady Bolton, aka Walda(?) Frey, had fewer lines of dialogue than any other character who actually spoke this season.

After Roose introduced her to Ramsay, she said "Hello".

I think that was it.

Even Hodor said Hodor more than once.

[Advance35]

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/06/game-thrones-ramsay-iwan-rheon-season-6

 

Interesting interview to read from Iwan Rheon.  It's always interesting and enlightening (for me) to read how some actors perceive their storylines and characters.   I think I like Ramsay better then Joffrey because Ramsay is more threatening.  Joffrey could (and frequently was) cowed by Tyrion, Tywin and (on occasion Cersei).   On his own he was neither intimidating or much of a threat, whereas with Ramsay, he's a mercurial monster in human form and his psychological destruction of Theon Greyjoy show he has the capacity for calculated sadism as opposed to mindless savagery.  The only person that ever really stands a chance of influencing him (rarely controlling him) is Roose Bolton.   I also think Ramsay not having any real politcal power allowed the character a little more  room in terms of motivation.   Joffrey's only motivation was "I am the KING" and his rage when nobles wouldn't listen to him.   Ramsay hungers for legitamacy and power and I thought the writing and Iwan managed to convey that last season.   Sansa was a crown jewel (though in his mind, his to brutalize as he liked) that symbolized his ascendency to heir of one of the Seven Kingdoms and I don't doubt he is going to be willing to swim through a river of blood to get her back.   His dynamic with Roose is an emotional horror show.

 

I know one of the complaints about the character was that he has no layers and I have to disagree.  I think he has plenty of layers, it's just that they go from bad to worse.  The more you peel away, the more rot you find.

 

I do think playing opposite the Ramsay character has been a benfit to the Sansa Stark character.   I don't think I've ever seen the character as sucha  marquee name amidst the media and in discussions.   Not all of it was criticism, a lot of it was hoping the character would turn the tables on Ramsay Bolton and actually sympathizing with her (many said they didn't pay much attention to her and ST herself said she feels like her character is viewed through a much more positive lens by the audience).   Natalie Dormer herself said she would love to see Margaery placed opposite Ramsay and you can't tell me it wasn't because of the amount of press the Sansa character got.   

 

Monster's they are, I found Winterfell more interesting then Kings Landing last season and that is an accomplishment I credit to the actors.

 

I tip my had to both Michael McElhatton and Iwan Rheon, who were wonderfully hissable villains in Season 5 and look to be wreaking more havoc in Season 6.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Advance35

[Winnief]

Monster's they are, I found Winterfell more interesting than Kings Landing last season and that is an accomplishment I credit to the actors.

 

I give a lot of credit to the actors as well, though, I do think some of this is that they're deliberately moving the focus to the North now rather than KL, (and by way of contrast, the intrigue of the Red Keep is seeming more and more petty with every passing day.)

 

But yeah, House Bolton do serve a good purpose of being the villains we love to hate and now that we've lost Joffrey and much worse lost Tywin  someone has to fill those roles.  I like what IR has done with the role, but even the more toned down show Ramsay is almost too over the top and repellent, but McElhatton's Roose Bolton on the other hand...now there is a truly Magnificent Bastard. 

 

All that being said, I sincerely hope the Bolton line goes extinct and that's not simply for vengeance/justice to their past crimes but as a freaking public safety measure.  The flaying has gone on much, MUCH too long-let's save future generations here!  Yeah, I know some past Stark Kings were capable of horror as well, (some of them probably would have considered Arya a softy) but they never seemed quite so pointlessly sadistic and besides which it seems the Stark bloodline was always central to the battle against the White Walkers which the Boltons can't claim.  ​ Right now in fact, Bolton control of the North is clearly impeding the North's ability to deal with the coming Ice Zombie Apocalypse and that alone is more than enough reason to get rid of them. 

[Maximum Taco]

I do think playing opposite the Ramsay character has been a benfit to the Sansa Stark character.   I don't think I've ever seen the character as sucha  marquee name amidst the media and in discussions.   Not all of it was criticism, a lot of it was hoping the character would turn the tables on Ramsay Bolton and actually sympathizing with her (many said they didn't pay much attention to her and ST herself said she feels like her character is viewed through a much more positive lens by the audience).   Natalie Dormer herself said she would love to see Margaery placed opposite Ramsay and you can't tell me it wasn't because of the amount of press the Sansa character got.   

 

 

Agreed, Sophie Turner definitely benefitted from that storyline last season. Her career has taken off after it.

 

There's a big reason Margaery could never play opposite Ramsay though, we all know what would happen. Margaery's protectors would find a way to get him out of the way. Just like Olenna never really left her alone with Joff, they would've never let Ramsay lay a finger on her. Sansa was compelling because she had no protection, other then Theon/Reek.

[Constantinople]

Quote

Your words will disappear.
Your house will disappear.
Your name will disappear.
All memory of you will disappear

  - Sansa Stark

 

Last time, with the Baratheons, I played this a little bit wistfully.

But not now.

Now it's party time.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Constantinople

[kittykat]

That feeling when you check the Comprehensive Character Guide and Ramsay's name is italicized...so good.  sooooo gooood.

[Jazzy24]

House Bolton is extinct lol. I can't wait for this to happen in the books. 

[Harald Hardrada]

The show did not mention Domeric Bolton, Roose's trueborn son and heir of the Dreadfort. So they are not truly extinct.

[Constantinople]

5 minutes ago, Harald Hardrada said:

The show did not mention Domeric Bolton, Roose's trueborn son and heir of the Dreadfort. So they are not truly extinct.

BookDomeric died shortly before, or just around the time of the events in the first book.

Since Domeric has never been mentioned on the television show, I think it's fair to conclude TVDomeric never existed.  Given how often TVRoose ribbed TVRamsay about TV Lady Walda's pregnancy, I can't imagine TVRoose would have remained silent about TVDomeric if he existed and was still alive.

So the TV Boltons are gone, unless Michael shows up to claim his rights.

[Jazzy24]

12 minutes ago, Harald Hardrada said:

The show did not mention Domeric Bolton, Roose's trueborn son and heir of the Dreadfort. So they are not truly extinct.

If the show didn't mention him than that means he doesn't exist and after not mentioning him for all these seasons I doubt he will exist. 

Plus Domeric is dead in the books to. 

The Boltons are extinct. 

[BigBeagle]

Quote

The Boltons are extinct. 

For some strange reason, I don't take quite as much pleasure out of that as I anticipated.

They were sick, sadistic, cruel so-and-so's, but they weren't boring.

Of course, if we were talking real-life people instead of TV characters, my joy might be more pronounced.

Edited June 23, 2016 by BigBeagle
Darned auto-correct.

[Jazzy24]

1 hour ago, BigBeagle said:

For some strange reason, I don't take quite as much pleasure out of that as I anticipated.

They were sick, sadistic, cruel so-and-so's, but they weren't boring.

Of course, if we were talking real-life people instead of TV characters, my joy might be more pronounced.

I always found them boring. They flay people and are obsessed with becoming the Starks. So boring. 

Their only purpose is to oppose the Starks and once that's done they won't be needed anymore hence extinction in show and I'm betting in the books also. 

[Maximum Taco]

18 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I always found them boring. They flay people and are obsessed with becoming the Starks. So boring. 

Their only purpose is to oppose the Starks and once that's done they won't be needed anymore hence extinction in show and I'm betting in the books also. 

They aren't obsessed with becoming the Starks, they have no desire to be honorable or just, they're fully happy to rule through fear and oppression. They're obsessed with destroying the Starks, and why not? They are ancient enemies.

Really it's the Starks' own fault, they should've taken a page out of the Lannister playbook and Castamere'D the Boltons long ago.

[Jazzy24]

1 hour ago, Maximum Taco said:

They aren't obsessed with becoming the Starks, they have no desire to be honorable or just, they're fully happy to rule through fear and oppression. They're obsessed with destroying the Starks, and why not? They are ancient enemies.

Really it's the Starks' own fault, they should've taken a page out of the Lannister playbook and Castamere'D the Boltons long ago.

And why have they spent thousands of years trying to destroy the Starks? They're so stupid and like I said their only purpose is to oppose the Starks and beyond that they don't have any use. 

And you're right the Starks should have killed them all thousands of years ago but they didn't because GRRM needed them as a plot point to betray and kill the Starks. 

But that will change because I'm fairly certain that the stupid house and it's boring members are going to become extinct by the end of TWOW. Which they should be. 

[qtpye]

Boltons- Horrible house/horrible people.

I did think the actor playing Roose was rather hot.

Ramsay was horribly miscast and did not make for a compelling villain.  It really made me appreciate the actor who played Joffrey.

[Zella]

Several years late to this party, but doing a GOT rewatch, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Roose Bolton insanely hot. (Not an opinion I feel comfortable sharing with most people IRL.) This time around, I cheered when he popped up for the first time in season 2. He could read a phone book to me with that voice, and I'd be enchanted. 

Not that he isn't a terrible human being, but I always thought he was a fascinating character--a good deal more interesting than Ramsay, who usually bored me, though he had his occasional moments. Last night I watched the scene where Littlefinger and Roose are warily chatting with each other, and I loved how he clearly had Littlefinger rattled by the end of that exchange, without ever raising his voice or saying anything overtly threatening. "I'd like to read the reply."

On 6/3/2014 at 10:23 PM, Maximum Taco said:

 

Not to mention, in season 2 Roose suggests to Robb that they flay their enemies to get information.

 

Roose: The officers may be useful, they may be privy to Tywin Lannister's plans... In my family we say a naked man has few secrets, a flayed man none.

Robb: My father outlawed flaying in the North.

Roose: We're not in the North.

 

I don't think Roose has any issues with Ramsay's tactics, he just wishes he was smarter about it.

 

Flaying enemy commanders to gain enemy plans: Good!

Flaying the only son and heir of a noble house: Bad.

 

Roose disapproved of flaying Theon, who probably was very valuable as a hostage, but in the end it paid off, so who is he to argue with results?

This was my read on it too. I don't think Roose has any problem with the actual details of what Ramsay is doing--he just wishes he was smarter about who he applied it to. I got the same vibe from Roose's scenes with Locke.

I think Roose's Rules of Torture (the Bolton version of Robert's Rules of Order) are basically 1) don't torture valuable captives and 2) don't let company see you acting like a psycho. (And probably 3--run really violent stuff by me first to make sure you're not violating rule 1.) As long as it is behind closed doors and happens to people he doesn't have a Machiavellian use for (or happens to people who just have information, so torturing them is what makes them useful), he's fine with it. But he doesn't want to advertise it and he doesn't want to anger people he needs in his pocket. 

So, he will advocate flaying captive prisoners who might have useful information and are otherwise a drain on the supplies and shrug nonchalantly when his son tells him Theon is with the hounds but act pissy with his subordinate for chopping off the hand of the son of the most powerful man in the kingdoms and dress down his own son for castrating and torturing the son of a man he wanted to do business with, among other overreaches. 

Incidentally, the vibe I got from Locke when Roose was being snippy with him reminded me very much of Aldo Raine in Inglourious Basterds--"Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before." I don't think that's the first time Roose has publicly chastised him for being out-of-bounds, but I also don't think Locke cares because he knows his boss doesn't have a problem with what he does most of the time. And I think Roose probably sees Locke as a very valuable man to have around, even if he sometimes creates some additional trouble, not least of which is because he provides Roose with an element of plausible deniability. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Zella