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Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!


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Well, wasn't the initial concept of this show very similar to that? Regina (the villain) was supposed to get her "happy ending" by having a new life in Storybrooke... and then the hero (Emma) eventually had to defeat her?

 

I meant more of an adventure/AU flair, rather than the original premise. Also, Emma never really battled Regina. She didn't even believe in everything for the most part. That's not really resistance. And all other character didn't remember their real selves.

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Adam and Eddy have said it time and again, this show is about hope, so doubt they will do any dystopia on it (they could have before with Pan's attempt on the dark curse).

I actually think that season one Storybrooke, and especially the glimpses of Storybrooke we got before Emma's arrival, count as a dystopia. It was more of an insidious dystopia because the people didn't know how wrong things were, and on the outside it looked like a perfect, idyllic small town. But people were trapped there, with bad things happening to anyone who tried to leave. The people had their identities stripped away and didn't seem to have much free will, even if their hearts weren't in Regina's vault. In many cases, the people were put in situations designed to strip their happy endings away or make them the kind of people they'd despise, like Regina doing everything she could to separate Mary Margaret and David, even when they found each other in spite of the curse. Regina had absolute power with the veneer of democratic city government. The hope comes in the people who find ways to deal with their situations. Mary Margaret may have been alone, but I think she was actually happier under the curse than Regina was. At the very least, she was content. And there's the hope of the curse breaking.

 

The kind of dystopia would depend on who's getting a happy ending. If it's just a villains get a happy ending world, then there likely would be absolute chaos. Regina's happy ending seems to be getting everything she wants -- her son (without having to share him) and true love -- and the problem with her is that she seems to think there's a limited supply of "happy," that if other people are happy, then she can't be. Maleficent's happy ending might be absolute power and a dictatorship. Rumple would want his son back, but it would depend on whether the book could be rewritten in such a way as to change the outcome. I'm not sure what would make him happy otherwise. Pan's happy ending would be never having to grow up. Could they all manage to co-exist?

 

Regina could get her happy ending in the way Snow did -- where she's with someone she loves, but on the run with someone else trying to kill her or with a threat looming over her. Not that it would dawn on her that she was experiencing what she'd done to others.

 

I would really love it if they find the "author" and he tells her that she writes the book herself, that he can only work with what she gives him. I'm not holding my breath.

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I would really love it if they find the "author" and he tells her that she writes the book herself, that he can only work with what she gives him. I'm not holding my breath.

 

This is what I'm hoping for, too, and if it's not, I'm going to cry foul from the rooftops. We saw in "Snow Drifts" that the future is uncertain. Emma interrupted her parents' first meeting and half the damn book disappeared. If someone was just doling out the happy endings, the book would have rewritten itself; Emma and Hook wouldn't have had to do all that running around. And yeah, I get they were using the book to echo the family picture Marty McFly carried around in which he and his siblings were disappearing before he could reunite his parents, but at the same time, this is the time-travel physics they've chosen to use.

 

And I know, I know, it means nothing because their own story bible isn't sacred but come on, guys. Give me some kind of consistency somewhere.

 

So, for me, the "author" of the book should be a precog or a prophet (shades of Supernatural?) or a reporter of some kind and is just writing down the stories for posterity or something (in storybook prose, of course). There shouldn't be a grand master puppeteer pulling everyone's strings, because that would 1) completely obliterate the logic of the season three finale, and 2) completely miss the point of the time-travel movies they pulled from. When Jennifer's note from 2015 about Marty being fired disappeared, it was because he'd already changed his destiny by not engaging in the drag race. And when she asks Doc why the hell the note vanished, he tells her it's because her future hasn't been written yet -- no one's has. "Your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one."

 

(Plus, I really need for Regina to take some damn responsibility for her own path.)

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So, for me, the "author" of the book should be a precog or a prophet (shades of Supernatural?) or a reporter of some kind and is just writing down the stories for posterity or something (in storybook prose, of course).

It was my understanding the book was directly linked with the curse - it was brought to Storybrooke to give information to the Savior. I was thinking the "author" was either the fairies, Rumple, or someone else involved with the dark curse. It was engineered to appear in Mary Margaret's closet just a month before the Savior arrived.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Oops, let me rephrase. I'm cool with the author being whomever, as long it ends up being that the book does not give out happy endings. (So Regina is pretty much dead wrong, essentially, haha.) Basically, I want the book to be a record, not a rulebook, if that makes sense.

Edited by Dani-Ellie
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Oops, let me rephrase. I'm cool with the author being whomever, as long it ends up being that the book does not give out happy endings. Basically, I want the book to be a record, not a rulebook, if that makes sense.

My thoughts exactly. It only records what's already happened, with the curse being the stopping point. As far as we know it's not recording any new (present day) information. It just goes by what's in the past relative to the time of the curse. It receives events, it doesn't create them.

 

If the author is someone random, I'm going to have to guess Yen Sid because it ties in with the Sorcerer's Apprentice.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Someone on tumblr posted that this arc was specifically designed for the vociferous fans who keep clamoring for the ships and storylines they want, and think that badgering Adam and the actors is going to make that happen. I think that's a neat idea. I think the arc is going to end with Regina realizing that she cannot force the author of the book to give her what she wants. I'd be perfectly okay with that. haha

Edited by Rumsy4
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Sadly, they'll never get rid of Outlaw queen, no matter how much sense it would make. Too much effort put into that already.

 

I actually think that season one Storybrooke, and especially the glimpses of Storybrooke we got before Emma's arrival, count as a dystopia.

 

I think that to count as a true dystopia the story should have it as a present and probable future, not just as past. Otherwise, it's your usual fantasy scenario - the savior comes to make things right. It's not bad inherently (I know I've enjoyed it quite a few times), but it's not really a dystopia, genre-wise.

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Oops, let me rephrase. I'm cool with the author being whomever, as long it ends up being that the book does not give out happy endings. (So Regina is pretty much dead wrong, essentially, haha.) Basically, I want the book to be a record, not a rulebook, if that makes sense.

I don't even understand how the book is supposed to be giving happy endings and even if she decides to force the author to write her a happy ending which would be completely outrageous, she still will not have understood a single thing because she will not have earned it.

 

ETA -

 

Sadly, they'll never get rid of Outlaw queen, no matter how much sense it would make. Too much effort put into that already.

 

 

I'm completely at the opposite of that.  I don't think they put nearly enough effort into it other than following some green fairy dust.  Regina wouldn't have given Robin a second look if she hadn't seen that tattoo and if she had decided that she liked him without having seen the tattoo, then I'm sure she would have proceeded with caution instead of being, well he's my soulmate as per Tinker Bell.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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I'm completely at the opposite of that.  I don't think they put nearly enough effort into it other than following some green fairy dust.

 

Oh, they didn't put any real ideas into that, definitely. But they put screen time, and it's an indicator, I think. Many people seem invested, for whatever reason (although I'm sure none of them will quit if the ship gets sunk, they all just want Regina to be happy - show them a better candidate than Robin, and they'll flock to him in a heartbeat!) But A&E care a lot about fan reaction, and it's been too positive to change something.

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I think people can hope for Regina to get a happy ending, and the writers may have that as a goal, but they can't do it too soon, or what will be the angst/conflict/obstacle for the poor misunderstood woman?  I think finding the book's author will ultimately be a dead end or somehow unsatisfying for Regina, and she'll have to find another way to happiness.  Because a happy Regina will be a boring Regina, and won't come til the very end of the last season, if then.

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Oh, they didn't put any real ideas into that, definitely. But they put screen time, and it's an indicator, I think.

Yes--I think of it as a game of chicken. At this point, backing out of Outlaw Queen would simply make Adam and Eddie look too bad for it to be a feasible option; the show has invested too much of Regina's storyline in Outlaw Queen to back away from it now. Plus, it's Regina. Their golden rule these days is Whatever Regina Wants, Regina Gets. Even if it would be better for the show, they've decided that Regina should have Robin, so nothing will be allowed to stand in the way of that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm clinging onto hope that they'll realize it's a mistake (largely because they haven't made Maguire a series regular). The Regina character deserves a better love interest and more epic love story. I just don't think we're going to get it.

But A&E care a lot about fan reaction, and it's been too positive to change something.

Has it actually been that positive? Obviously the crazy fanatic section of the Evil Regal fandom loves it (though I agree if they gave Regina a better love interest many of them would jump ship in a heartbeat--all they care about is Regina's happiness), but outside of that subsection of the Regina fandom, it seems to me that the reaction has been a big fat "meh." It's always hard to judge, obviously, but at least IRL, everyone I know who watches the show is at best apathetic to Outlaw Queen, and many are like "pfffft, look at your life, look at your choices, show."

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think finding the book's author will ultimately be a dead end or somehow unsatisfying for Regina, and she'll have to find another way to happiness.  Because a happy Regina will be a boring Regina, and won't come til the very end of the last season, if then.

 

I expect them to put some problems into Outlaw Queen, naturally - maybe Robin will go missing for a good part of a season (god, I hope so) and that's why Sean's not a regular. I would LOVE if it were just a filler relationship that would help Regina with her character development, but there has been no indication of that so far.

 

Has it actually been that positive?

 

I think so, sadly. Our corner of the fandom is too small to be relevant. Facebook and Tumblr seem all over the pairing - even the people who aren't Evil Regals. I had to unfollow a pretty influential Once fan on Tumblr (who mostly posted Emma and Charming-related stuff) because of how much Outlaw Queen she posted, and it seemed her stuff was reblogged, too.

Edited by FurryFury
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Has it actually been that positive? Obviously the crazy fanatic section of the Evil Regal fandom loves it (though I agree if they gave Regina a better love interest many of them would jump ship in a heartbeat--all they care about is Regina's happiness), but outside of that subsection of the Regina fandom, it seems to me that the reaction has been a big fat "meh." It's always hard to judge, obviously, but at least IRL, everyone I know who watches the show is at best apathetic to Outlaw Queen, and many are like "pfffft, look at your life, look at your choices, show."

 

 

I think so, sadly. Our corner of the fandom is too small to be relevant. Facebook and Tumblr seem all over the pairing - even the people who aren't Evil Regals. I had to unfollow a pretty influential Once fan on Tumblr (who mostly posted Emma and Charming-related stuff) because of how much Outlaw Queen she posted, and it seemed her stuff was reblogged, too.

 

Yeah. Several of my non-obsessed twitter buddies seem to like OQ a lot, and I would not call any of them crazy Regina fans. I think A&E have tattooed "End-Game" on the pairing by making them pixie-dust soul mates. So many CS shippers that I follow on tumblr are on-board OQ that I'm really tempted to unfollow them. I black-listed OQ, so at least most of the posts don't show up when I'm not using the mobile app. 

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I believe there's an xkit app for tumblr mobile available. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm tempted. Yeah--the image loading sucks. 

 

I wonder if the writers will have Marian deciding to separate from Robin a la Kathryn in S1? She's toast by the end of the Season, though. It really is unpalatable to me that Regina will end up with the husband of the woman she terrorized and murdered/was about to murder. I wish the writers will off Robin instead. Maybe fate will keep trying to kill Marian like Charlie in LOST, and Robin will trade his life for hers, so that their son will grow up with his mother. I can only dream... 

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I wonder if the writers will have Marian deciding to separate from Robin a la Kathryn in S1?

That will make me like her so much. Hope she'll take Roland with her. No child should have to communicate with Regina, that's for sure. Hope someone will tell her what happened to Regina's own son.

 

Maybe fate will keep trying to kill Marian like Charlie in LOST, and Robin will trade his life for hers

 

Hahaha. He didn't even care she was straight-up murdered by the woman he now professes to love, why would he care about Marian's impending death? He'll probably go and celebrate his freedom from his vows.

 

I believe there's an xkit app for tumblr mobile available.

 

I didn't know there was an alternative! Thanks, I'll check it out.

Edited by FurryFury
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Hahaha. He didn't even care she was straight-up murdered by the woman he now professes to love, why would he care about Marian's impending death? He'll probably go and celebrate his freedom from his vows.

 

Sadly, I think you are 100% correct! lol

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There are probably dozens of ways they could slow down or derail Regina's redemption express and as has been mentioned, Sidney is one route. For sure, if karma rains down on Regina it will originate from another baddie because the Charmings sure can't manage it.

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To go back to the book's author, I'm wondering if Regina's story is in the book at all at the moment. I think she's in it, but only as the Evil Queen. Is Regina looking to have her story added and get a happy ending? Because as it is the Charmings story is in there but until Emma broke the curse, they didn't really have their happy ending (and technically still haven't gotten one - life goes on and we have to continue to work on our happy endings). How does Regina think she's going to get hers written in when the book (and life) doesn't really work that way? There are a lot of ways this storyline could go that would be interesting, but I won't get my hopes up.

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I agree.  The whole book's author thing makes no sense.  We don't even know where each story "ends".  For example, did the Cinderella story in the Book end with her getting married (that would be a happily ever after).  But we now know that after the marriage, Rumple tricks Cinderella into giving him her newborn and Prince Thomas disappears and Cinderella is left all alone.  Was that the ending in the book?  Has the book now added the part about after the Curse was broken by Emma?  Or not?  I seriously doubt that the book actually has recorded everything new that has happened since the Curse broke.  It seems to be a record of the stories from back in the Enchanted Forest.  

 

The most popular theory from Season 1 was that the Blue Fairy wrote the book, when she went off to do "preparations" before the Curse.  Clearly, the writers aren't going there since if Regina went to Author Blue and asked to have her happy ending written into the book, Blue would probably say no way in hell.  

Edited by Camera One
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Clearly, the writers aren't going there since if Regina went to Author Blue and asked to have her happy ending written into the book, Blue would probably say no way in hell.

and  I would start a slow clap.

 

I believe Blue was the one behind the book too. In Going Home she also said something like the story will reveal itself to Emma and then we see MM finding and giving Henry the book.

 

 

I seriously doubt that the book actually has recorded everything new that has happened since the Curse broke.  It seems to be a record of the stories from back in the Enchanted Forest.

Exactly. Because if it did, they would have just read the book to see what happened in the missing year. So Regina blaming the book for her happy ending is stupid when it isn't even in the book. I really hope the book author/origin make her realize SHE makes her own happy ending (that hopefully doesn't involve killing anyone).

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I seriously doubt Regina's arc will end with anything but the author telling Regina that the book is but a record, and that she needs to work for her Happy Ending. I doubt the message will seep in. However, I think Regina's quest will turn out to be important for some completely different reason--maybe the author is evil, and Regina discover's their identity--and she will end up saving the day yet again. 

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I'm just looking at the episode title for Episode 2.  I don't read any spoilers and I even avoid previews.  I'm hoping the entire episode isn't about Regina trying to use different brands to white-out the whole Book.

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I am assuming pessimistically that Anna will arrive in the Enchanted Forest during the usual Snow-on-the-run era, but I was *trying* to think like Adam and Eddy this morning.  If I went from their perspective of "This show is about Regina's journey", then Anna could arrive pre-"The Stable Boy".  

 

They could have Anna be the one to encourage Regina to pursue a relationship with Daniel and to take a stand against her mother.  They could show Anna's advice working to improve Regina's relationship with Cora, who is anticipating becoming Queen since King Xavier (Henry Sr.'s father) is sick, and his older brothers all died or something.  But then the Evil Leopold and Eva shows up last minute, and Cora finds out that Xavier, on his deathbed, had merged his kingdom with theirs under King Leopold (or maybe the people in King Xavier's kingdom has a revolution since they want Leopold as their king so much), so Henry Sr. will not become King after all, which makes Cora so angry she takes it out on Poor Regina, and Cora now changes her goal to making Regina queen.  And that would lead us directly into the episode where Cora murders Ava and then the events of "The Stable Boy".

 

That would be the perfect sob story for Regina and make new viewers want her to have a happy ending, while laying the blame at Snow White's doorstep.

Edited by Camera One
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I hesitate to put this out there, but Charming's father who was away for two weeks at a time and an alcoholic, could it be Cora's "Prince Jonathan?" I know we speculated about it last year, but the revelations in White Out make that theory more plausible IMO.

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I hesitate to put this out there, but Charming's father who was away for two weeks at a time and an alcoholic, could it be Cora's "Prince Jonathan?" I know we speculated about it last year, but the revelations in White Out make that theory more plausible IMO.

 

NO NO NO. He and Zelena as half-sisters? haha

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Darn it, I read this by accident before watching "White Out".  I think Charming's mother said his father regretted giving his twin brother away until the day he died, so I assumed Charming's father was a decent guy.

 

If the speculation is true, the Mills family can now blame Charming as well as Snow for destroying Cora's life.

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We now have the link to connect Anna to Rumple, Charming's mom.  I had thought before that she had traded her necklace to him for help for her sister and we all know how those trades work out for the trader.  I'm guessing his help was magicking Elsa into the urn and possibly Anna into the necklace.

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Darn it, I read this by accident before watching "White Out".  I think Charming's mother said his father regretted giving his twin brother away until the day he died, so I assumed Charming's father was a decent guy.

 

If the speculation is true, the Mills family can now blame Charming as well as Snow for destroying Cora's life.

Sorry Camera One, I didn't mean to spoil you. I doubt it's true, I just like to speculate wildly.

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I will be disappointed if he doesn't turn out to be someone. Maybe he's Robin Hood's Prince John. Or he could always be King George, but that's assuming he was lying about being the gardener.

 

If George would turn out to be Jonathan, why not lie about being the gardener?  He had no real interest in marrying Cora, and this way he'd get one over on a (presumably) rival prince and kingdom, while not having to worry about Cora showing up, baby bump intact, demanding anything from him.

 

Although with Zelena gone, I have trouble seeing them bringing up Jonathan again, even though having him be George who Cora cursed later, thus resulting in James' adoption would be a nice tying together of several threads.

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I wonder if Elsa was falsely imprisoned by Rumpel?  We now know that Mitchell is playing another Snow Queen-not a spoiler-(likely sharing more similarities with the original than Elsa) and he described his vault as containing dark and unpredictable magic.  Well, Elsa's got a history of instability but she's not a villain.  Mitchell's Snow Queen, on the other hand, probably is.  I can see Rumpel deciding to imprison the villainous Snow Queen (maybe he makes a deal with someone wanting her locked up) but, not knowing her actual identity, mistakes Elsa for her and that's how she gets imprisoned.  Whatever he did to Anna probably happened concurrently and might not even be directly connected (though I also expect something to have happened to Kristoff as well and that may be directly related to whatever happened to Anna).  Whatever he did, he did it discreetly as Elsa didn't recognize him from that engagement picture in the paper, which will keep him protected until Anna is found (as I imagine she did see his face before he did whatever to her).

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I'm guessing his help was magicking Elsa into the urn and possibly Anna into the necklace.

 

I was thinking this as well because its awfully convenient that Elsa lost the necklace before they got a device that could see where Anna was.

 

But then I went back an read Runple's index card on the necklace and he had it acid tested and that's just mean if Anna's in there.

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I think they had to lose the necklace because otherwise they don't need the shepherd's crook. They'd just put a locator spell on the necklace and follow it to Anna. Now they just have the knowledge that Anna is alive, but no concrete way of finding her. It would be nice if Belle could be bothered to help find Elsa's sister, but she didn't offer to help find her when told that Emma might die if they didn't find her, so I have little faith in her being a part of this particular storyline.

Edited by KAOS Agent
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So let's see what could happen in the next few episodes in the flashbacks.

 

Episode 3 - Anna continues on her journey to Rumple, but finds a wimpering crying helpless Snow White in the forest immediately after the Huntsman incident.  We find out it was Anna who taught Snow how to be a strong person, how to use bows and arrows, and how to live in a tree.

 

Episode 4 - Anna meets Rumple.  He says, "Magic comes with a price!"  But before he helps Anna, she must do something for him.  Go to Regina's castle and fetch him something important.  Anna goes to the palace as a visiting dignitary, and she manages to win Regina over immediately.  Regina becomes soft and nostalgic because Anna has that effect on people.  Rumple sees that and engineers a situation where Anna must steal away in the night, and Regina turns evil again.

 

Episode 5 - Anna meets Granny and Red, who are bitterly fighting after Red's boyfriend died.  Anna helps them make peace and teaches Red how to make proper sandwiches. 

 

Episode 6 - Anna meets the Blue Fairy who has lost all hope and her magic powers.  Anna teaches her how to properly access magic in fairy dust.

 

Episode 7 - Anna meets Gepetto and teaches him how to do carpentry.  So well that all his wooden objects come alive.  And that's how Pinocchio was born.

 

Episode 8 - Anna goes back to Rumple and accidentally knocks over some ingredients which coincidentally created the Dark Curse.  

Edited by Camera One
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So let's see what could happen in the next few episodes in the flashbacks.

 

You joke, but I see certain parallels between Anna's worldview and how Belle treats Rumpel, maybe Anna did some coaching on how to be supportive of someone who has magic that gets out of hand from time to time. Intent being a niggling detail she forgot to mention.

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Did anyone else find it strange Elizabeth Mitchell was revealed so early? I'm worried it's another 3B situation where the villain goes around beating the good guys until the last couple of episodes. I'm not sure what the upcoming plots could be, except for maybe Sorcerer's Apprentice or a little bit of the author stuff. I kind of doubt the Triangle of Doom is going anywhere this half-season.

 

The promo for 4x03 looks like a rehash of Witch Hunt - the townspeople pointing fingers while Emma and the gang try to find the perp.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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I read this (long), very interesting and well-thought out meta. While I don't agree with some of the inferences the blogger has drawn, I found one particular theory very interesting: Henry is the author of the Storybook. He has the Heart of the Truest Believer, and he unknowingly caused the book to appear in Mary Margaret's closet. After all, in both instances, they appeared in response to Henry's need. In one of the deleted scenes from 4.02, Mr. Gold reminds Henry of the fact that he has both Light and Dark Magic in his DNA. I really like this theory, because it makes sense, and doesn't involve some random new magical being pulled from thin air. If Blue Boobs was involved, S3B would have been the time to reveal that, and I doubt Regina's season-long quest will end in her quest item being the Blue Fairy. I don't think Henry is actually writing the Happy Endings, but it's his magic that is sustaining the book.
 
The blogger thinks that by the end of S4, Regina will realize that Henry is the author of the book, and that if she controls Henry's heart, she can also control the Happy Endings. I don't agree with the idea that Regina's relationship with Henry will break at that point and that she will become the S5 villain. We all know that Adam and Eddy have their heads shoved up Regina's ass, so I only expect further deification of Regina as the series moves forward. However, I like the idea of Regina being faced with a choice of having to destroy Henry Jr. to gain her Happy Ending, but makes the Right Decision. (For which, of course, she will be worshipped by Henry, Snow, Emma, Robin, Marian, and Roland. Marian will be so impressed by this that she will voluntarily die before joining Regina and Robin's hands together in a farewell gesture.)

 

This means that the author of the book is not Yen Sid, or whoever owns the Fantasia Hat Rumple's got a hold of. Rumple's arc involving the Hat is going to be separate from Regina's arc involving the Book. 

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I really want the book to be author-less. It would be hilarious meta commentary!--but also finally might get through to Regina that she, and no one else, is responsible for her?

 

I think that lesson is definitely part of it, and in a meta way, that's A&E telling the rabid fans that they can't force them to give them what they want (unless they're pro-Regina, of course). Henry being the "parent" of the book need not preclude from the fact that people will have to work for their own Happy Endings.

Edited by Rumsy4
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