Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[kili]

Since the Jolly Roger is made of enchanted wood, and since she and Hook have spent a very, very long time together, it would be funny if she rejects her new owner and somehow refuses to cooperate, so they think the ship's haunted.

 

I really like that idea. It would be like the wands in Harry Potter. You can use somebody else's wand, but it never works quite as well for you as does the one that chooses you. It would be great if the Jolly was sentient in a similar way. It would explain how Hook can sail her by himself and would have been very frustrating for Black Beard to never quite get her to do what the legends claimed.  Hook may not have even noticed how easily he could sail the ship as his crew slowly died off over 300 years in Neverland. It's like getting glasses...people who are new to glasses as they get older are always amazed at how much they didn't see before because it came on so gradually.

 

A sentient ship would be fun. Ursula would probably love a sentient ship. I still want to see Eric do something other than just smile at Ariel. He needs to stab Ursula in the heart with a ship. Although, I wouldn't mind it if Ursula isn't a total bad guy.  Ursula is really hard to animate with CGI (Lana didn't look too convincing), so she would have to be able to take human form at times.

[yeswedo]

Someone on twitter posted that "OUAT season 4 will be filming from July 9, 2014 until - April 2, 2015". Only one more month to go! I need me some set photos!

 

Just a quick reminder that set photos will be posted in the spoilers thread.

[Shanna Marie]

As long as she doesn't get too jealous of Emma and try to make her walk the plank. ;)

It is possible that Miss Jolly (or would she still think of herself as Miss Jewel?) might be a wee bit irked at Hook for having sold her and take out a few frustrations on him at first, kind of like the way pets often treat you when you return from vacation. But I would hope it's not necessarily a romantic affection the ship has for him, so if Emma makes him happy, she'd be glad to have Emma around rather than being jealous. It doesn't seem that there's any indication she had it in for Milah, and she certainly cooperated in the voyage to Neverland. Maybe the enchanted ship gets more power from good vibes, and the captain being happy makes the ship do better. His joy at being on his way back to Emma may have been what allowed her to outrun the curse. She was probably tired of him moping around.

 

But Emma seeing him talking to/about his ship the way he did when he was getting her back from Blackbeard could be highly amusing. Like "Do you two need some privacy?"

[Leia1979]

Going back to Marian for a moment, I wonder if she will die this season as part of the timeline correcting itself. I saw "X-Men: Days of Future Past" last night, and a time travel theory is discussed that parallels what we dealt with on OUAT: despite the smaller changes or "ripples" made in the time stream, the current will eventually course-correct the timeline and whatever was meant to happen will still happen. I suppose that's much like Final Destination, but I love how it was stated.

 

While I love Marian the vixen in the cartoon, I have no connection to this Marian, so I won't be sad if this happens. I also won't be sad if she, Robin, and Roland ride off into the sunset.

[Souris]

Yeah, they discussed that theory in X-Men, but then

they changed a hell of a lot of big stuff that didn't get course-corrected! So they rather disproved that theory, at least in the X-Men universe. I mean, they basically negated the first three X-Men movies.

But we'll have to see how OUAT handles it.

 

They'll probably either kill Marian off or have her give Outlaw Queen her blessing, so Regina can have whatever she wants.

[Alex]

About Miss Rolly Joger... Am I the only one that thinks that when Emma kissed past!Hook, the ship was rocking? I know that it was docked, so highly improbable to rock that much, but I found the camera movement weird. I got the impression that she was rocking, as if expressing her jealousy!

[InsertWordHere]

So you're saying Emma and Hook were rocking the boat?

[legaleagle53]

Well, you know what they say -- if the boat's a-rocking, don't come a-knocking!  ;-)

[Shanna Marie]

About Miss Rolly Joger... Am I the only one that thinks that when Emma kissed past!Hook, the ship was rocking? I know that it was docked, so highly improbable to rock that much, but I found the camera movement weird. I got the impression that she was rocking, as if expressing her jealousy!

Or she could have been freaking out because there were two Hooks on board at the time and she didn't know what to make of that.

[KingOfHearts]

I know it's been joked around that Hook should get trapped in carbonite per the Star Wars parallel. What if he gets frozen by Elsa?

[Camera One]

I was thinking about some possibilities for S3.  If the writers want to use this season to "clear house" and to make Regina and Rumple back into villains, they could go for...

 

Season 4 - Episode 1

On his rounds, Charming notices that the forest is strangely covered with snow.  He asks Rumple why that might be.  Rumple knows it might be Elsa but he doesn't say anything.  Charming tells Rumple he will get Emma to help find out.  Rumple tries to convince Charming to drop it but Charming refuses.  Meanwhile, Regina vows revenge on Emma for bringing back Marion, and she asks Rumple for his help.  Rumple says that maybe they can kill two birds with one stone.  Charming and Emma are about to set off, when Snow insists she has recovered from childbirth and would like to help.  They encourage Emma to have a nice picnic with Hook.  Rumple and Regina casts a spell to around the snowy forested area which will freeze and kill anyone who enters.  The episode ends as Charming and Snow are killed by instant freezing.

 

Season 4 - Episode 2

Emma finds her parents had died, and they have a funeral and a burial.  Emma vows revenge, and Rumple tells her that Elsa murdered them.  Meanwhile, we find out via flashback that Elsa has a sob story and is the victim in her story.  Nevertheless, Emma cruelly hunts down Elsa, her heart hardening with vengeance.  Rumple revels that he can now use Emma as a pawn, since she is becoming just like Old Regina, and eventually Emma will become the new Evil Queen.  Meanwhile, Robin tells Regina that he still loves her, and Regina starts to regret that she conspired with Rumple.  Meanwhile, Belle bakes a cake to celebrate her one month wedding anniversary with Rumple.

 

Season 4 - Episode 3

Elsa is hiding in Zelena's cellar so the set designers can save some money.  She is fearful and scared that the now Evil Emma will hurt her.  Rumple decides Elsa needs to die soon, so their hidden past together (yet to be revealed) can stay buried.  To evoke anger from the town, Rumple tells the citizens about Elsa's most deadly weapon - the ice bomb.  Rumple then sets up an ice bomb at Granny's diner, which kills Granny, Red, Leroy, Tinkerbelle, Blue, Aurora, Philip, Archie and Gepetto.  The town becomes a mob out to hunt down Elsa.  Empowered by victimhood, Elsa sings "Let It Go" in this very special musical episode.  She will fight back against Rumple and the Evil Emma who is unfairly targeting her.  Belle is able to calm down the mob due to her previous experience with mob mentality along as with her extensive readings into the subject matter, as we are treated to a flashback of how she stopped a previous mob against Rumple after he killed a village.

 

By the end of 4A:

The tale of the Charmings can be over, and they can instead refocus the show on the characters from Frozen, along with Rumple, Regina, Robin and Hook.  The new true villain of 4A will be Evil Emma, who will be killed off in 4A finale, to usher in the 4B villain, Maleficient, to capitalize on the movie.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

Moved from Unpopular Opinions:

I think it's okay for Emma to be sorry that she did something that might break Regina's heart but Emma doesn't need to regret saving her. She can show empathy without wanting her forgiveness.

I agree, and I'm actually hoping that this is the approach that all the Charmings take: "we don't regret that Emma saved a life, it was the right thing to do, but we are sorry that it caused you pain, Regina, and we can sympathize with that." I think that's an appropriate response to the situation--the Charmings aren't monsters, after all, they're human, and theoretically Regina's family--so I think it splits the difference between "groveling at Regina's feet" and not giving a crap nicely. (I mean, I don't think they should give a crap, but clearly the show is determined to play Happy Families with them all, so.)

 

Also, I think it would be really, really good for Regina to get a dose of sympathy from people that is tempered by "but we'd do the exact same thing over again because it was the right thing to do." Regina likes to live with the delusion that her emotional world is The Center Of The Entire Universe. It would be really healthy for someone to say "yeah, your emotions are important, but not more important than a life." Doing so could actually--gasp--model appropriate emotional responses for Regina. I don't know, I just feel like Regina has been lacking in middle-ground voices that acknowledge her emotions but say "sometimes there are bigger fish to fry."

 

I also agree that Snow won't give Emma much, if any, grief over saving Marian, and if she does it won't be Regina-related grief. There's absolutely no way Snow freaking White could have left someone in a cell to die, either, so I suspect Snow's reaction will be "I am concerned about the timeline--and also about Regina going on a killing spree--but I think you did the right thing, Emma, don't doubt that. We'll just deal with the consequences, but never regret doing the right thing."

 

(And if that's not Snow's response, I hope Emma throws her absolutely moronic diner speech in her face.)

[Dianthus]

I'm looking forward to seeing the reactions if/when everybody realizes Hook is (sorta) responsible for Elsa's presence in Storybrooke. I imagine Regina giving him the sharp edge of her tongue. Then Emma's, like, "Back off, B!tch" and he tries to put himself between them to smooth things over with a quip. Regina, contempt dripping from every syllable, gives him a laser death stare and says, "You aren't nearly as cute as you think you are!" then flounces off. 

 

I can't imagine Snow giving Emma grief over saving Marian's life. That's crazy to me. I like the idea that there's more than one man with the same tattoo out there. Who knows, maybe Regina will catch Richard himself?

Edited June 18, 2014 by Dianthus

[YaddaYadda]

"You aren't nearly as cute as you think you are!"

 

No, you're right, I'm devilishly handsome!

[Dianthus]

Yadda Yadda: LOL! Emma thinks he's d*mn cute, and that's good enough for him.

I'd like to see her getting to enjoy introducing him to new things - microwave popcorn, rock'n'roll music, Star Wars, etc.

[Serena]

She should introduce him to Princess Leia's iconic costume.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm really interested in seeing what happens to the character writing in S4. None of the characters are in good positions, development-wise. The writers have backed themselves into a corner with every one of them. The only storyline that has a positive outlook right now is CaptainSwan, and maybe Emma's life in Storybrooke.

 

Snowing is busy with a baby, Regina is stuck in the Marian issue, Henry is probably going to be coaching Regina, Neal is dead, and Emma is caught in the awkward Marian situation as well. From most angles, it doesn't look good or hopeful. The Frozen plot may help pull it out of the water this season, but that remains to be seen. Things need to get very shaken up to give these characters somewhere to go.

 

Best case scenario: The main cast gets a load of relationship/family work done.

Worst case scenario: Marian plot lasts multiple episodes and Frozen takes over as Adam and Eddie's newest cartoony extravaganza.

Edited June 19, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I get the impression that Rumple will be going off the deep end next season.  I'm sure he'll be losing Belle, but I don't know in what capacity.  She leaves him or something happens to her because of him which would be a rethread of sorts of him losing Baelfire.

 

Can you just imagine the 4A finale?

 

RUMPLE:  I am going to cast the Dark Curse again!  Since I've lost my soul since losing Bae and Belle and I can't take it anymore!!!!! [RUMPLE sobs uncontrollably and throws final ingredient into the well and Purple Smoke billows out]

 

HENRY: Grandpa don't do this!  I KNOW you care, I KNOW you have a heart.

 

HENRY reaches into his chest and takes out the Heart of the Truest Believer.

Beam of white light emerges from the heart and collides with the Purple Smoke.

 

BROWN SMOG-LIKE SMOKE EMERGES.

 

EMMA: What is that?

 

BLUE: It looks like car exhaust to me.  Everyone brace yourselves, we might be transported to a new land.  Or whatever.  All I know is I have no idea how to stop it.  However, this is the perfect mid-season finale cliffhanger.

 

SMOKE envelopes everyone.  Episode ends.

 

Season 4B begins.

 

REGINA: Where are we?

 

POCAHONTAS: You think you own whatever land you land on.  The Earth is just a dead thing you can claim.  But I know every rock and tree and creature.  Has a life, has a spirit, has a name.  Your brown smoke has destroyed our planet and caused global warming.  Capture them, Grandmother Willow!

 

GRANDMOTHER WILLOW extend branches that entangle all the Storybrooke characters.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Camera One

[Dianthus]

Serena: Right there with you!

 

It seems to me there are a lot of cooks in the OUaT kitchen. There are the Royals, a ship's captain and the leader of an armed band. Not to mention the Dark One. I can see some serious tension in all that, especially as they deal with unknown quantity Elsa. 

 

KingOfHearts: hoping your best case scenario comes true.

[Dianthus]

I'll be interested to see if Hook feels a bit...not ashamed, per se... chagrined? about advising Emma to leave Marian to her fate back in FTL. It's not like he wanted her to die or anything, but maybe he feels just a little bit bad about it? Or maybe just 'cuz he tried to talk Emma out of doing what was right?

[YaddaYadda]

It was never really about him not wanting to do the right thing as much as it was about not messing up the timeline.  Under the circumstances, he was actually rational and he didn't really argue about bringing Marian with them.  I mean they're travelling in time, Emma broke a branch and messed up her parents meeting, nearly erased herself from existence and changed their story. 

 

If breaking a twig can have that type of ripple effect, then a person who was meant to die could have some serious consequences.

 

Neither Emma nor Hook should feel bad about this.

[Shanna Marie]

It was never really about him not wanting to do the right thing as much as it was about not messing up the timeline.  Under the circumstances, he was actually rational and he didn't really argue about bringing Marian with them.

While he was worried about the effect on the timeline, once Emma came up with the idea of bringing Marian with them, he didn't argue at all and even showed approval at her willingness to knock Marian out to force her to come with them. If he'd disagreed at all, he could simply have refused to carry Marian around. When Emma opened the portal, he was the one who picked Marian up to carry her through, with no prompting. Considering that he also shared the blame for disrupting the timeline (even though Emma broke the twig, he always said "we" changed things), I could see him sharing the "blame" for Marian. Maybe he'll even be the one to step up and tell Regina off, since apparently the Charming family isn't allowed to. Though I really wish Emma would rediscover the part of herself that took a chainsaw to Regina's apple tree and tell Regina where she can stick it, that she's not going to ever regret saving an innocent woman's life, no matter what it does to Regina's momentary happiness.

[Camera One]

"Lost" spoilers below:

 

In all honesty I want Robin, Marian and Roland to ride off into the sunset together and get their HEA but I could accept a storyline based on the idea that you can't cheat death. When it's really your time one way or another you die. 

 

Regina trying to be noble and help Marian would give the writers the Regina angst they love so much plus we might even avoid the Emma shaming I'm worried is heading our way. 

 

I was thinking about this, and since Adam and Eddy love to recycle plotlines from "Lost", I wonder if they might actually try to do this.  In Season 3 of "Lost", they spent half a season where Desmond tries to stop Charlie from dying, but Charlie dies at the end anyway.  They could do the same thing with Regina trying to save Marion again and again, and in the end she fails, and that would create angst while keeping Regina in a grey zone of wrestling whether to save Marion or falling to her base instincts to let the woman die.  Regina would be such a martyr.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Putting Regina and Outlaw Queen aside, it's my theory too that Marian is going to die.

 

The whole time travel thing was breaking the laws of magic. There's got to be a serious price for that. This show has taught the lesson that fate is fate. Zelena's defeat was fate shown in the records book, and it happened. Marian living breaks the "dead is dead" rule, too.

 

In a show about moving on with your life, Robin getting his past back doesn't really fit into the show. He finally let Marian go, and moved on to Regina, then all that moving on turned into nothing. He got his old wife back.

 

I don't think Mr. Gold is going to be happy that someone messed up destiny. He's big on that stuff.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think Mr. Gold is going to be happy that someone messed up destiny. He's big on that stuff.

 

He's such a raging hypocrit!  He messed with everyone's destiny when he created the dark curse.

[KingOfHearts]

He's such a raging hypocrit!  He messed with everyone's destiny when he created the dark curse.

 

He had other ways to get to Bae, but he used the dark curse because he prophesied it as destiny. He programmed it all, foresaw Emma as the savior, and knew how it was going to play out. He's so obsessed with fate and destiny that he killed a seer for her powers.

 

He might even kill Marian just to set the timeline straight. He's a villain, after all. I'm not rooting for him to, but that would definitely be in his nature. He's going to hear the news that Marian is from the past, and Regina is going to hear the news he married Belle. Can't wait for that moment. Hope they're both alone in a room.

Edited June 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FabulousTater]

He might even kill Marian just to set the timeline straight.

There is nothing to set "straight". Emma and Hook returned the timeline to what it should've been by taking Marian to the future/their present time. Marian is now part of the present and future, and future events (relative to the present day timeline) are not fixed points. The future has yet to be written and there's no right or wrong future timeline because the current timeline is in constant fluctuation to those that exist within it. And no character on the show is omniscient, not even Rumple. Rumple is capable of seeing probabilities ( what will more than likely happen ) but even he's not 100% sure of the outcome, so there's no way to say the current timeline is "wrong" because Marian exists in the present.

Edited June 23, 2014 by FabulousTater

[KingOfHearts]

There is nothing to set "straight".

 

The very fact the timeline's been tampered with at all means it's not straight. That includes the present and the future.

 

Rumple will always defend fate. He revolves himself around it - he's the one always chanting magic always comes with a price. Marian used magic to get to the future. There's going to be a price. He may not know if her being in the future will cause a negative effect, but even in the alternate timeline EF, Rumple was working hard to make sure nothing changed.

Edited June 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FabulousTater]

The very fact the timeline's been tampered with at all means it's not straight. That includes the present and the future.

How do the characters know that the "destiny" of the timeline wasn't to be changed anyway. Perhaps that was always the fate - to go back in time and bring Marian back. There's no way to say for sure because, again, there exists no omniscient character to say, "Nope, that's not right." There exists nothing to say that the change to the timeline wasn't always the outcome and therefore that Marian existing now is part of the "correct" timeline. (which is kinda ridiculous to argue about "right" or "wrong" timelines because timelines are just a function of decisions and events happening over the course of "time" and imposing a "morality" of coulda, woulda, shoulda to a construct of physics is absurd. ).

Rumple will always defend fate.

..

Rumple was working hard to make sure nothing changed.

Rumpel was working hard to make sure that the probabilities of the outcome he wanted occurred. There's a difference between that and "fate". He didn't know for sure his plan would work (because he's not omniscient) until Emma presented herself to him in the past, and told him flat out that his plan succeeded. So Rumpel's intention was to guarantee an outcome that he wanted. He didn't give a crap about fate, he cared about his goal to find Bae

Edited June 23, 2014 by FabulousTater

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not saying Rumple is right to think that. I'm saying he would. He's a crazy villain, not a Doctor in a TARDIS, lol.

[FabulousTater]

I just don't think Rumple cares. His plans always revolved around getting to Bae. Outside of that he was more than happy to let the world fall apart around him. And Rumpel has no way of knowing what bringing Marian forward affected because the changes made by Emma and Hook affected him as well. Rumpel doesn't exist outside the timestream, he's not Dr. Who. ;-)

 

Since the only ones aware of a timeline change are Emma and Hook, if Rumpel gets any more prophetic moments those prophecies will be based on the "changed past" and will be based on the current timeline with an alive and well Marian. Unless we're told otherwise, had Emma and Hook not told everyone that they had changed the past, Rumpel would've been just as unaware as everyone else. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Dani-Ellie]

Since the only ones aware of a timeline change are Emma and Hook, if Rumpel gets any more prophetic moments those prophecies will be based on the "changed past" and will be based on the current timeline with an alive and well Marian.

 

Right. To put it in Back to the Future terms, it's like when Doc and Marty had to go back to 1955 to stop Biff from owning all of Hill Valley in the second movie. If they went to 2015 from the crazy-ass 1985 they were in, it would have been the future of the crazy-ass timeline, not the 2015 they'd just returned from. For everyone else in Hill Valley, crazy-ass 1985 was the norm, the natural progression of events. It was only crazy-ass to Doc and Marty because they knew how things had turned out without Biff's meddling. Doc even describes it as such: "Alternate to you, me, and Einstein, but reality for everyone else."

 

Marian coming forward is, basically, crazy-ass 1985 (in a physics sense, not a moral sense). It's reality now, because the original timeline doesn't exist anymore.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[stealinghome]

I don't disagree, but I also don't think little things like "logic" or "internal consistency" will stop Adam and Eddie. (Like how in Once: Wonderland people can't be brought back from the dead...unless it "wasn't their time" or they "weren't supposed to die," in which case they can be brought back, but which also is pretty much entirely a paradox if you think about it.) So I definitely think we're getting some sort of Final Destination-esque story where Marian is concerned.

[FabulousTater]

I don't disagree, but I also don't think little things like "logic" or "internal consistency" will stop Adam and Eddie.

Well, yes, I would have to agree with that. Writers who retcon their own internal show logic and piss on their own "rules" more often than a geriatric dog with bad bladder control walking by a string of fire hydrants clearly have no respect for "logic" or "internal consistency".

 

But I'm just speculating and since there aren't any spoilers right now, I've got nothing but logic to go on....that is until they start selling the season packs of OUAT with a bonus bag of the crack that the writers were smoking while writing the show. Then we can all join them on the magic carpet ride of brain damage, "Weeeeee!"

Edited June 24, 2014 by FabulousTater

[KingOfHearts]

When Emma and Hook tell Rumple they messed with the timeline, he won't be happy. He doesn't know what was alternate and what was reality. For all new Rumple knows, they could have stopped him from saving Bae from dying. I'm just saying Rumple isn't a fan of changing destiny. I honestly don't want to get into a time travel logic conversation, because with this show, logic debates never turn out well, lol.

 

Marian is going to be a victim of final destination, to my speculation. We haven't really seen Marian's character do much or her backstory, so I can't really predict what she'll do or how she'll die. The writers may have a plan for it that goes way back, or at least how this situation will get resolved. I highly doubt Regina is going to go all apple turnover on her. If Regina ever hopes to win Robin or Henry back, she can't act like that. She would never kill or hurt Roland's mom, either.

 

I really hope there's more to the puzzle.

Edited June 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I don't think Rumple is going to care one way or the other about Marian--it's Elsa's arrival that's going to piss him off. Between him and Regina, Emma and Hook will have a lot to worry about! Just like Season 1 and 2...

[myril]

Rumple is a hypocrite. The seer told him, that his actions would leave his son fatherless. He fought that fate with all means, and doing that ironically made it happen nevertheless. And now he is a father without his son. Rumple has meddled with fate and destiny all the time, convincing himself maybe, that he was doing nothing but letting fate run its course, while telling people meanwhile, they have a choice. Beside magic has a price another mantra of Rumple was, people have a choice, while at the same time his actions where pretty much what was meant to happen, despite that he was trying to change fate all the time. Rumple's dilemma: He had to believe and find proof that people have a choice and can change things while at the same time it was a relief of his own guilt if that were not so, because then it was not his responsibility that he betrayed his son and let him go alone through the portal, but it was destiny. It's why I find Rumple rather appalling and worse than Regina. This guy should step up and accept that not destiny but he messed up his family.

 

Wouldn't be surprised though, if Rumple meddles again with destiny while pretending he's just bowing to destiny. After all the prophecy was, his son would be fatherless, not that he would lose his son...

 

Making it Marian's destiny to die would be the cheapest writing way out I can think of. Beyond bad fanfiction level bad. Unfortunately am not convinced the writers wouldn't go there, make Rumple the scapegoat or come up with some freaky accident (oops, Elsa had no control of her powers, too bad) so superhero-mom Regina can now get a clean slate and happy, happy feelings with her fateful true love Robin, instead of her having been the one who murdered Robin's beloved wife and mother of his son. Who cares that little Roland would be traumatized losing his mother a second time at young age, it's all destiny.

 

Regina hardly will care, she separated Hansel and Gretel from their father, Jefferson from his daughter, Greg/Owen from his father, Emma and her parents, killed her own father, tried to kill her own mother (she send Hook to do it), it's not like the Evil Queen has any healthy idea of family. If Regina has changed, has grown over the past season, then though she should step back for the sake of Roland. Her own happiness can't be more important than the happiness and future of a child.

 

If it's some freaky accident motherly Regina can step in and comfort the poor boy though. As if Regina really knows how to handle loss.

Edited June 24, 2014 by katusch

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think there's any way Regina gets a clean slate in this.  If she backs off and something bad happens to Marian independent of Regina's involvement, she is still the person who set in motion Roland being motherless and Robin being free to "date" her in Storybrooke.  How does Robin ever get past that?  The only redemptive way out, as I see it, is for her to step back, do the right thing after much angst and agonizing, then realizing that the Tinkerbell/fairy dusty/true destiny was a heap of magic b.s.  I realize the odds of my little scenario happening are pretty low.

[Mari]

 He may not know if her being in the future will cause a negative effect, but even in the alternate timeline EF, Rumple was working hard to make sure nothing changed.

If they're going to rebuild Rumple as a villain, they're going to need to do more than just have him manipulate Belle.  Most likely that's going to be stuff with Elsa, but they could also easily have him go the vengeance route; he convinces himself he wasn't able to happily ever after with Baelfire because of something Hook/Emma did, and now they must pay.

 

Even if it doesn't blossom completely into vengeance, it could give him extra motives to not help them, or do smallish (for him) things that . . . complicate their lives.

 

I don't think there's any way Regina gets a clean slate in this.  If she backs off and something bad happens to Marian independent of Regina's involvement, she is still the person who set in motion Roland being motherless and Robin being free to "date" her in Storybrooke.  How does Robin ever get past that?  The only redemptive way out, as I see it, is for her to step back, do the right thing after much angst and agonizing, then realizing that the Tinkerbell/fairy dusty/true destiny was a heap of magic b.s.  I realize the odds of my little scenario happening are pretty low.

If they were dealing with the character in a way that was more authentic, there wouldn't be.

 

Unfortunately, the show has demonstrated a remarkable ability to completely misread what's been written and performed.  This is the same show that took a figuratively and literally heartless woman, and told us that she loved so truly and deeply she could make true love and light magic happen just from the power of her soul.  The same soul she had when she killed countless people and never regretted it.

 

I think the show could be just fine with blaming Regina's new unhappiness on Snow, Emma, and Marian.  Roland could even get some guilt backsplash if he's too happy he's got his mother back.

[ShadowFacts]

I think I just had some acid reflux backsplash thinking of poor little Roland in the middle of Regina's psychodrama.

[KingOfHearts]

Here are some of the reasons I think the Marian twist is bad all around:

- It's Woegina all over again.

- It puts in a dumb storyline about Emma feeling guilty over Regina. Really?

- It breaks the dead is dead rule... again.

- It's a catalyst for another shipping war.

- It pits Roland in a bad place for an innocent child.

- All the Outlaw Queen stuff, which was popular, was built up for this twist alone.

- If Regina backtracks over this, her redemption in 3B meant nothing.

- It's a second parallel to the Stable Boy. The Mills family gets yet another misdirected reason to hate the Snow family.

- It's an angsty season-end twist just for the sake of drama and hiatus talk.

- There's no way out that doesn't have issues.

- It makes Robin look like an idiot for dating his wife's murderer.

- It's doubtful the writers will give Regina a decent, moral or logical outcome from this.

- Even if Robin/Marian live happily ever after, they'll always be a chip on Regina's shoulder and fodder for more Regina drama.

 

It would have been preferable for Robin to find out Regina executed his wife and started pulling away without Marian coming back. At least that way Robin would be smarter, and Roland wouldn't get hurt. Regina would have to actually work on her relationship instead of getting it effortlessly via tattoo. 

 

I hope in S4 this gets handled quickly.

Edited June 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

When Emma and Hook tell Rumple they messed with the timeline, he won't be happy.

 

But he already knows, Emma told him.  When Emma goes to Hook outside, she tells him that Rumple said that everything would go back to normal, except for their little adventure.  So the only thing he doesn't know about and no one knows about is Elsa.

 

Rumple cares only about the things that affect him anyway. 

 

The Marian stuff still gives me a headache.  And I still don't think she affects anything timeline wise.  Robin clearly didn't have a body to burry, he always just assumed she had died when she disappeared into thin air.

[Rumsy4]

No matter what, Robin and Regina are endgame. Which means Regina yet again gets her Happy Ending at the cost of someone else. In this case--she gets the very family she destroyed in the first place. Sounds familiar?

Edited June 25, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Alex]

Unless Marian is not Marian but someone in disguise (Zelena? I'd like to see Rebecca Mader again and she certainly had reasons to ruin Regina's happy ending).

She could be Marian in 4a and give Robin/Regina a lot of angst and then, once the disguise discovered, become the villain of 4b.

 

We don't know for sure that Marian, in the original timeline, died at Regina's orders.

In the new timeline the disguised villain could have had organized the capture in purpose to end up in the future. How this villan knew about the time jump, now, that I don't know! Let me see. (S)he could be an omniscient villain, Maybe Emma and Hook had a trace (like in Harry Potter) and they could be tracked in a crystal ball? So (s)he knew where they were and what they were doing and having the time to put in place the rest.

 

Ok, my imagination today is running wild!!

[KingOfHearts]

No matter what, Robin and Regina are endgame.

 

It seems like everyone on this show is getting an endgame relationship. Can anyone just stay single...?

 

 

We don't know for sure that Marian, in the original timeline, died at Regina's orders.

 

Yep. I'm still hoping it's Zelena. Kudos to you!

 

 

Rumple cares only about the things that affect him anyway.

 

He'll be sure to tell Regina about how Marian is in final destination. Why? Because unhappy Regina annoys the crap out of him. He had to work a whole "please" clause to the curse just to get her to stop nagging him about her problems.

Edited June 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

Unless Marian is not Marian but someone in disguise (Zelena? I'd like to see Rebecca Mader again and she certainly had reasons to ruin Regina's happy ending).

 

Ugh, please no.

 

Even if that turns out to be the case (which I will hate with a passion unlike anything I've hated before), it's still missing the point. So it turns out "Marian" was imposter. So what? Regina wouldn't have known the imposter was an imposter. She still would have imprisoned and potentially executed (though I fully believe Regina would have executed Marian had Emma not freed her) a woman whose only supposed crime was not helping Regina with her vendetta. It still means Regina's a nasty piece of work and should not be anywhere near Robin and Roland.

 

Marian isn't the big problem/issue in this equation for me. Regina is. And if Robin even entertained the notion that Regina had ordered his wife and the mother of his son executed, I don't really want to see that dealt with as, "Oh, she wasn't Marian anyway, no harm, no foul."

[stealinghome]

Ugh, please no.

I have to ditto this, because I am heartily sick of Zelena. I really enjoyed Rebecca Mader's performance, but at the end of the day Zelena was a huge f'ing DUD as a villain, and I don't want another 3534685365 fairybacks that focus on her and her sob story while neglecting the actual main characters of this show.

[YaddaYadda]

And if Robin even entertained the notion that Regina had ordered his wife and the mother of his son executed, I don't really want to see that dealt with as, "Oh, she wasn't Marian anyway, no harm, no foul."

 

Especially after what he went through to actually save her life.

 

Robin is very wishy-washy when it comes to either Rumple or Regina.

[KingOfHearts]

The Marian situation has absolutely no positive outcome. Regina is going to be Regina no matter what happens. What happens with Marian won't change that.

 

I actually enjoyed Zelena, just not as the main focus. With Frozen on the way, I doubt that would happen again. I would much prefer Regina to have a sister relationship than a messed up romantic love-triangle one with Robin.

Edited June 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

Ugh, please no.

 

Even if that turns out to be the case (which I will hate with a passion unlike anything I've hated before), it's still missing the point. So it turns out "Marian" was imposter. So what? Regina wouldn't have known the imposter was an imposter. She still would have imprisoned and potentially executed (though I fully believe Regina would have executed Marian had Emma not freed her) a woman whose only supposed crime was not helping Regina with her vendetta. It still means Regina's a nasty piece of work and should not be anywhere near Robin and Roland.

 

Marian isn't the big problem/issue in this equation for me. Regina is. And if Robin even entertained the notion that Regina had ordered his wife and the mother of his son executed, I don't really want to see that dealt with as, "Oh, she wasn't Marian anyway, no harm, no foul."

And on top of that, it would mean that we would have to have round #234,765,239,487 about how someone from the Charming family completely thoughtlessly ruined Regina's life and the lives of everyone around them must now be ruined by either Regina or Marian. 

 

I can't watch that.  I don't like to give up on shows with characters I like, but not even Emma, Charming, Hook, and a few others are worth watching scene after scene of them self-flagellating while Regina's watches self-righteously and with frankly disturbing relish at their pain and guilt.

 

No.  For the Marian storyline to work for me at all, Regina has to be a grown-up about it--or be repeatedly called on her horrible behavior by people who aren't Belle--and maybe a couple of seasons of her actually maturing past toddler, while for one completely nonCharming related reason whatsoever, the relationship between Marian and Robin can end and Regina/Robin move to the "end game" that seems to be the plan.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Mari