The NBA

[emma675]

I've been looking for a separate thread for The Last Dance for weeks and finally realized the discussion was in here!

I'm fascinated by this show. I think it's because I was too young when all of this happened (I was in elementary and middle school during the Bulls run and the Dream Team), but a lot of this is new to me. I knew MJ was hyper competitive, taking the smallest thing and turning it into a vendetta that drove him to insane lengths, but I didn't realize how much of a jerk he was in general. There is seemingly nothing light hearted about him--his jokes have a hint of meanness behind them, he can't handle being the butt of a joke, he can't let any game just be a game, etc. I'm kind of amazed his older kids turned out as well as they did, although I'm guessing the majority of that probably was their mother's influence. I wonder if he has a serious drinking problem at this point? His eyes just weren't bloodshot, they looked yellow, like he has an underlying liver issue. 

I also didn't know the story of his dad's murder, that was shocking. 

I loved the Dream Team stuff because I was obsessed with the team during the 92 Olympics. They took some of that footage from another documentary about the Dream Team, which was a great behind the scenes look. 

Quote

Pippen lost me when he stated that if he had to do it all over again, he would once again quit on his team during a playoff game against the Knicks.

This. That was a punk ass bitch move when he did it and his teammates let him know it then. Why on earth would he now say he would probably do it again the same way? 

Edited May 11, 2020 by emma675d

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to think most hall of fame class pros have some asshole to them, but I tend to think it's also part of a past age. Like, I'm sure Curry is a jerk, but I don't think he takes it to Jordan levels. Or he's a good actor. I never felt like Brady or Manning were that level either, but you've seen them yell at players who make mistakes. I don't even think taking a swing at someone during practice is that big of a deal if everyone cools out and let's it go. 

This may be part of the evolution of the superstar as a brand. I tend to think Jordan has issues though. I mean, I like to drink too, but I don't think I'm going to need it during an interview. Clearly, gambling is a problem. It's not; because he's got unlimited money, but it is. Paxson was being nice, but you could tell when he was talking about him a Kukoc playing $1 blackjack and Jordan asking to play, that they didn't want him to be anywhere near them. Plus we said before, even joking around he has to cut just that little much more deep. 

Also nowadays, players like LeBron and Wade have known each other since they were like 10. They're not going to pull that bs. Players want to win, sure, but they got a sneaker line, record label, production company, etc., going on. 

[Growsonwalls]

45 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

This may be part of the evolution of the superstar as a brand. I tend to think Jordan has issues though. I mean, I like to drink too, but I don't think I'm going to need it during an interview. Clearly, gambling is a problem. It's not; because he's got unlimited money, but it is. Paxson was being nice, but you could tell when he was talking about him a Kukoc playing $1 blackjack and Jordan asking to play, that they didn't want him to be anywhere near them. Plus we said before, even joking around he has to cut just that little much more deep. 

Also nowadays, players like LeBron and Wade have known each other since they were like 10. They're not going to pull that bs. Players want to win, sure, but they got a sneaker line, record label, production company, etc., going on. 

I think if people are avoiding gambling with you because you are such a sore loser, then, yeah, it's a problem. Also something that struck me was how nostalgic the Bulls players seemed for that one season when Jordan wasn't playing. Yeah they weren't winning but it seems like life was much more fun. 

As for the new superstar brand, I think there's something to it. But I also think that for the retired players, being on the regular TNT/ESPN/NBATV circuit helps. I think that's probably why Isiah and Magic are cool with each other now -- it'd be awkward if they weren't cool but had to be on the same basketball panel on TV. But as Magic said in that interview, Jordan is very "private" and I think that constant isolation tends to make people stew and wallow in their grievances.

As for Jordan's eyes and face, it's not just that he has bloodshot eyes and an ever-present glass of whiskey. Compared to his contemporaries he just looks .... rough.  His skin is leathery, his face bloated. It's kind of a shock to see the old footage of him to see how skinny and fit he was. He was the typical ectomorphic basketball player. 

One thing I will say about Jordan that is nice is that he seemed way more tolerant of Dennis Rodman's quirks than I expected. Dennis has always been IMO a very troubled, shy, damaged person. "Colorful" on the outside but quiet and withdrawn in person. So I'm glad that MJ seemed pretty gentle about Dennis.

ETA: here's an article about Dennis. Makes me sad.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[LilWharveyGal]

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

I'm fascinated by this show. I think it's because I was too young when all of this happened (I was in elementary and middle school during the Bulls run and the Dream Team), but a lot of this is new to me... 

I loved the Dream Team stuff because I was obsessed with the team during the 92 Olympics. They took some of that footage from another documentary about the Dream Team, which was a great behind the scenes look. 

Are you me?  🙂  We're probably about the same age.  I didn't really love basketball per se but I was crazy about MJ and the Dream Team, so this show has been really eye-opening.

And seeing the Sonics in Episode 8 really gave me flashbacks to childhood.  Growing up as a sports fan in Seattle was rough.  Nice to know that I owe some of my youthful heartbreak to George Karl snubbing MJ in a restaurant.

[mojoween]

I never knew until just now, while watching Episode VIII, that Toni Kukoc was a center.  Huh.

A lot has been said about how great the songs have been (“Fantastic Voyage,” be still my nineties heart) but just as great is the score.  It gives a real sense of urgency to things that happened twenty and thirty years ago.

I have no idea while Micheal was swinging a bat around while smoking a cigar in the locker room, but it made me laugh anyways.

It’s crazy that the baseball strike and pancakes with BJ Armstrong is what it took to bring Michael back to the court.

Edited May 12, 2020 by mojoween

[Dejana]

It's funny to see The Last Dance get slammed in some corners for being a puff piece hagiography, while others are saying that Jordan comes off as petty and bitter and speculate about his present-day health. Here's what one of the makers has to say:

 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Jordan is very "private" and I think that constant isolation tends to make people stew and wallow in their grievances.

To be fair, he doesn't owe anyone shit. All he has to do is go to the arena and point at the banners. However, he gave the green light for the documentary. I would think one would want to take the opportunity to be insightful and reflect on the era, his place in history, etc. He still doesn't necessarily have to be likeable, but I don't know what he's going for here. 

[Growsonwalls]

16 minutes ago, Dejana said:

It's funny to see The Last Dance get slammed in some corners for being a puff piece hagiography, while others are saying that Jordan comes off as petty and bitter and speculate about his present-day health. Here's what one of the makers has to say:

 

I think it's possible to see it both ways. I think that the filmmakers probably intended for it to be a hagiography. After all in order for the doc to get made Jordan had to sign the release for the video footage. And the filmmaker is a longtime friend of MJ's. This doc was always going to be made from MJ's POV.

So the documentary does have this hushed, reverent air. I think however that MJ himself shows a dark side in the interviews and that people can both be put off by the adoring hagiography of the doc AND feel that MJ comes across like an asshole much of the time.

I also have the feeling that his teammates were really unloading on how they felt about MJ for the first time? It was a surprise to hear Scottie Pippen speak so fondly of the season MJ wasn't there. Or Bill Paxson say that he avoided playing cards with MJ. Or BJ Armstrong talk about the resentment/fear he had towards MJ. Or Steve Kerr saying that MJ pushed him too far. 

[truthaboutluv]

Just watched the most recent episodes and I guess all those pre-judgement that the documentary is from MJ's POV, so it'll never be really critical, is once again proven false. Not only do they go there, with bringing up the "he didn't retire and instead was suspended for gambling" rumors, they have multiple segments/stories from former players putting MJ's assholery in practice on full display.

Man that Kerr story was something. MJ's lucky Kerr didn't pull the American move of trying to sue his ass. Because running your mouth and trash talking is one thing but when shit gets physical, you've taken it too far. On one hand, I understand what MJ was doing and of course some will look at their records and say, "hey, it worked because they were winning weren't they?"

But at the same time, being a non-athlete myself, I've never been comfortable with the crazy, push you to the point of borderline abusive behavior, kind of mentality. But yet it's something I swear that seems to come up in some form with almost all top athletes. Which is probably why competitive sport was never my thing. Give me the arts any day. 

The Pippen story was interesting. I wonder if this was just residual bitterness on Scottie's part from the fact that Krause' scouting of Kukoc was seen as his trying to replace Scottie. And so Phil's giving that big of moment to Kukoc, felt like a betrayal to Scottie.

But I mean really dude, Phil as a coach had never steered them wrong. If he'd put his ego aside for two seconds, he'd have realized that Phil had to have very good reasons for making that decision. And well of course it worked. 

eta: I will say, as psychotic as he may have been, I did find Jordan's almost pathological drive for vengeance whenever someone ran their mouth too much or got all big for their britches, kind of amusing.

The George Karl story was just hilarious. And Horace's reaction about his Magic teammate comment about "45 not looking like 23" anymore was hilarious. Horace face was like, "now why'd you have to do that?" Equally hilarious was Jordan's reaction to Gary Payton's pontificating about those two Seattle wins against the Bulls in the Finals. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[DoctorAtomic]

18 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

But I mean really dude, Phil as a coach had never steered them wrong. If he'd put his ego aside for two seconds, he'd have realized that Phil had to have very good reasons for making that decision. And well of course it worked. 

iirc, they ran the same play either earlier in the playoffs or the regular season - where Pippen inbounded to Kukoc for the last shot. So it's not like Phil all of a sudden decided that it would be a great idea. 

Again though, have some reflection, and think about how that paints you in the larger context. 

21 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Because running your mouth and trash talking is one thing but when shit gets physical, you've taken it too far.

It wasn't a regular occurrence, so shit like that doesn't bother me. Jordan constantly ripping on teammates as a way of 'joking' bugs me more, and I can't believe no one told him to stfu for 5 minutes. It's not like Jordan didn't respect him as a player. He still passed to Kerr for the shot with the game on the line. I'm looking forward to seeing it again and what I get out of it all these years later. 

26 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Equally hilarious was Jordan's reaction to Gary Payton's pontificating about those two Seattle wins against the Bulls in the Finals.

Two games isn't a seven games series. If Payton had guarded him from game 1, I think Jordan would have figured him out by game 5 at the latest if not by game 3. I think he would have just worn him down. 

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

One thing I will say about Jordan that is nice is that he seemed way more tolerant of Dennis Rodman's quirks than I expected. Dennis has always been IMO a very troubled, shy, damaged person. "Colorful" on the outside but quiet and withdrawn in person. So I'm glad that MJ seemed pretty gentle about Dennis.

I think that's a combination of Jordan having great respect for Rodman as a player and as he noted, their eventually realizing that for all his crazy, when it mattered and it was time to show up, Rodman did. 

In the episode that focused on Rodman, after the Vegas fiasco and then Rodman shows up to practice looking a hot mess but then runs laps around them in the practice, Jordan realized that ultimately, if they just let Denis be, with all his quirks and his weirdness, then he'd show up when he needed to. So I think once he realized that and accepted it for what it was, he and Rodman were fine. 

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Dejana said:

It's funny to see The Last Dance get slammed in some corners for being a puff piece hagiography, while others are saying that Jordan comes off as petty and bitter and speculate about his present-day health. Here's what one of the makers has to say:

 

 

Point being, you can't please everyone. Personally, just in terms of quality - direction, the music and score as others have noted, the narration - I think this has been an excellent documentary. 

[Growsonwalls]

An interesting recap of The Last Dance

Quote

For what it’s worth, none of Jordan’s former teammates argue with that point. The bigger question the episode asks is whether it was worth it. “Was he a nice guy?” former Bulls guard B.J. Armstrong says. “He couldn’t have been nice. With that kind of mentality he had, he couldn’t be a nice guy.” Everyone but Jordan has long been content to leave it there.

Jordan being Jordan, though, and this being his show, he presses his case. It’s another loss he just can’t accept. “When people see this, they’re going to be like, Well he wasn’t a nice guy, he might’ve been a tyrant,” Jordan says, his glass again topped up. “But that’s you, because you never won anything. I wanted to win, but I wanted them to be a part of it as well.” Hehir here gives us big swelling music over various images of Jordan triumphing. “Look, I don’t have to do this,” Jordan says. “I’m doing it because this is who I am. That’s how I played the game. That’s my mentality.” He starts, at that moment, to get choked up about how committed he is. “If you don’t want to play that way, don’t play that way.” And then he calls “break” and leans forward out of frame. And Hehir cuts, just where Jordan tells him to.

By the way I looked up Scott Burrell. He's a coach at Southern Connecticut State University.

Scott Burrell and Penny Hardaway also did a video about MJ last night. Burrell has nothing but kind diplomatic things to say about MJ. It appears that he's still the nice, humble guy.

Penny Hardaway also had a very disappointing pro career but has found success as both a high school and college coach as well. 

Penny and Scott both say that their players think Lebron and KD are the GOAT and are too absorbed with social media. Penny jokes that players only know who he is because of "Youtube." But both joke about it and say that they need to let kids be kids and not push them the way MJ pushed teammates.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Rodman was a highly illtelligent basketball player and Jordan said so himself. He already had two rings. 

[Danny Franks]

 

15 hours ago, emma675 said:

I knew MJ was hyper competitive, taking the smallest thing and turning it into a vendetta that drove him to insane lengths, but I didn't realize how much of a jerk he was in general. There is seemingly nothing light hearted about him--his jokes have a hint of meanness behind them, he can't handle being the butt of a joke, he can't let any game just be a game, etc.

Yeah, all the 'lighthearted' footage of him joking around with his teammates seems to revolve around him poking fun at them in some way. It could come across as playful and jovial... if he wasn't seemingly doing it all the time. Same with making fun of Jerry Krause's height. No wonder that guy was so set on dismantling the team and rebuilding it.

I don't really care about all the 'that's just how it was, back then,' or 'yeah he was an asshole, but he was a winner' arguments. Being a dick is being a dick.

The stuff with Kukoc at the Olympics was straight up bullying. Jordan and Pippen took it upon themselves to concertedly humiliate a younger player who they knew would be coming to their team, just because their GM was praising him too much? Then Pippen says afterwards that "he doesn't have what it takes to play in the NBA." But then, that was the Dream Team in a nutshell, wasn't it? American exceptionalism was under threat so they brought out the biggest guns they could to put the rest of the world back in its place.

12 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think it's possible to see it both ways. I think that the filmmakers probably intended for it to be a hagiography. After all in order for the doc to get made Jordan had to sign the release for the video footage. And the filmmaker is a longtime friend of MJ's. This doc was always going to be made from MJ's POV.

So the documentary does have this hushed, reverent air. I think however that MJ himself shows a dark side in the interviews and that people can both be put off by the adoring hagiography of the doc AND feel that MJ comes across like an asshole much of the time.

I also have the feeling that his teammates were really unloading on how they felt about MJ for the first time? It was a surprise to hear Scottie Pippen speak so fondly of the season MJ wasn't there. Or Bill Paxson say that he avoided playing cards with MJ. Or BJ Armstrong talk about the resentment/fear he had towards MJ. Or Steve Kerr saying that MJ pushed him too far. 

I think that's the crux of it. This was intended to be a paean to the 90s Bulls, and Jordan specifically, but it couldn't avoid showing how much of an asshole Jordan was. Even the guys brought in to just eulogise him can't do so without revealing that things weren't that simple.

I guess basketball, with fewer players on a team, the focus on individual achievement and the more intimate environments its played in, encourages the sort of narcissism that some of these guys display. Jordan could barely tolerate commentators praising players who weren't him.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Danny Franks

[emma675]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The stuff with Kukoc at the Olympics was straight up bullying. Jordan and Pippen took it upon themselves to concertedly humiliate a younger player who they knew would be coming to their team, just because their GM was praising him too much? Then Pippen says afterwards that "he doesn't have what it takes to play in the NBA."

Yeah, Kukoc was a lot more diplomatic about it in the documentary than I would have been. Two players who were at the height of their game, in a league where every advantage, piece of equipment, and dollar was at their fingertips, go after a young kid who is playing in the European league after coming from war torn Croatia. They were assholes for doing that. Kukoc had no control over what Krause did or said to Jordan and Pippen, yet they still took their anger out on him.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't know. Kukoc earned their respect in the rematch, so something came out of it. They schooled him for sure, but you want to play with the best you have to hang. I tend to place it more on Jerry. You have to be deaf and blind to now know how that would play out. 

[Dejana]

19 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think it's possible to see it both ways. I think that the filmmakers probably intended for it to be a hagiography. After all in order for the doc to get made Jordan had to sign the release for the video footage. And the filmmaker is a longtime friend of MJ's. This doc was always going to be made from MJ's POV.

So the documentary does have this hushed, reverent air. I think however that MJ himself shows a dark side in the interviews and that people can both be put off by the adoring hagiography of the doc AND feel that MJ comes across like an asshole much of the time.

I also have the feeling that his teammates were really unloading on how they felt about MJ for the first time? It was a surprise to hear Scottie Pippen speak so fondly of the season MJ wasn't there. Or Bill Paxson say that he avoided playing cards with MJ. Or BJ Armstrong talk about the resentment/fear he had towards MJ. Or Steve Kerr saying that MJ pushed him too far. 

I think the filmmakers could have soft-peddled MJ's flaws much more than they have and ESPN still would have happily aired it. We see the major gambling issues (Jordan himself downplays it as a competition problem, but IDK if the documentary shares that POV), they address his feuds, they show how his motivation often involved exaggerated slights/outright lies about other people, and they frequently filmed him being interviewed with a drink not far from hand. But people looking for more of a "He was overrated and a selfish bully, here are all the groupies he hooked up with, no wonder his wife left him and he barely has friends now!" exposé were never going to be happy with The Last Dance's approach. He talks, other figures in the story share their perspectives and the public can make up their own minds.  

*

17 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Just watched the most recent episodes and I guess all those pre-judgement that the documentary is from MJ's POV, so it'll never be really critical, is once again proven false. Not only do they go there, with bringing up the "he didn't retire and instead was suspended for gambling" rumors, they have multiple segments/stories from former players putting MJ's assholery in practice on full display.

Duh, Jordan and Stern only agreed to talk on the record if they could deny the rumors!!11!!!1!! Not to get political, but I think the only conspiracy theory I've ever seen people drop in large measure was when the real Deep Throat outed himself. Otherwise, conspiracies persist because they tend to be more interesting and for some, knowing "the real truth" about a famous person/event becomes like a belief at a certain point.

*

I saw a tweet that "LaBradford Smith" sounds like the fake name they'd give a LeBron James-type character in a movie. 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Dejana

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, Dejana said:

Otherwise, conspiracies persist because they tend to be more interesting and for some, knowing "the real truth" about a famous person/event becomes like a belief at a certain point.

The Ewing draft lottery was fixed.

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

[Carey]

3 hours ago, xaxat said:

The Ewing draft lottery was fixed.

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

It did look questionable (from my standpoint)

[Danny Franks]

15 hours ago, xaxat said:

The Ewing draft lottery was fixed.

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

The recent Hall of Shame podcast episode on that was interesting. It's not exactly exhaustive, because it's only about half an hour long, but it's worth a listen. It doesn't draw real conclusions, but the circumstantial evidence points towards it being rigged. It just worked out too well for all involved - the NBA, the commissioner, the Knicks, the media.

[DoctorAtomic]

If there wasn't a finger on the scale, that is one giant coincidence. 

[LexieLily]

Honestly, at this point, Adam Silver and the NBA needs to stop dragging it's feet and just buck up and say the NBA season is cancelled and they'll start to focus on how to safely work the 2020-2021 season. The longer they wait, the more the playoffs will get pushed into when the next season is supposed to start anyway. Tough luck if LeBron doesn't get "closure," whoever won this season was going to have a giant asterisk anyway.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm still not clear on how Jordan's father passed. 

I don't remember when Jordan retired (as in - where were you) because I was in college and just didn't have access to tv, but I knew when he retired. I didn't know about all the conspiracy theories. I don't really give much credence to conspiracies in general because they're always so elaborate and require people to not be stupid, which we are in general. 

I can't see why Stern would legally bar his cash cow in Jordan from playing in the league, but a mutual decision isn't that outlandish. I have a hard time believing that Jordan, as tired as he was, wouldn't want to go for 4 in a row. He literally said, 'Bird and Magic never did three in a row.' 

I could be significantly underestimating his relationship with his father. I'm also finding it hard to grasp that you're so burnt out and emotionally drained so you go play pro baseball. I mean, by now, he had to know the media sensation it was. That's how you move on? 

So, of course, he never speaks to Sports Illustrated again. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[truthaboutluv]

23 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm still not clear on how Jordan's father passed. 

Do you mean you're unclear about who really murdered him? Or are you unclear about how it happened? Because I believe the official report is that he was shot and killed while asleep in his car, and dumped in the lake/river where his body was recovered. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I mean it's weird that he would just take off for days on end and his family didn't know where he was and that Michael Jordan's dad would sleep in his car. 

'Michael, I'm going to visit my friend in Charlotte. Can you put me up on the way?'

I get playing hard in practice, but you're trying to get your teammate to fight you. That's issues. 

I remember Burrell from UConn because I was in college when he was in the area. Guy sounds like a saint. 

I do like Pippen, but it's hard when you're showing Kukoc hitting several game winning shots. It's also kind of ironic that the whole success of the Bulls dynasty was fundamentally based on Jackson convincing Jordan that he had to give up the ball more.

I don't think it's fair to ask Jordan about being a 'nice guy'. Like I've said - all he has to do is point at the banners. I certainly am all in on having a high standard and challenging your teammates to rise up to that level. In this sequester due to the virus, I've learned who the people are that are willing to put in work and who just want to punch a card. It's a timely commentary watching this documentary.

But - is Jordan's way the only way to do that? Always belittling people, trying to get your teammates to fight you. I don't think so, and I think he clearly knows it because he broke up at the end of E7. That was probably the most insight I've seen in the series to date. 

It's interesting that he referred to himself as a leader. I'm not really seeing that. It's not like the team built around him wasn't the top players in the game. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Growsonwalls]

@DoctorAtomic here's an article that goes into the details of James Jordan's death.

Honestly it sounds like James Jordan might have been too drunk to drive and pulled over for the night. I'm surprised he didn't just stay at the Quality Inn though. Maybe he was really drunk and fell asleep.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm still amazed that the Bulls are winning playoff games in the low 80s. 

I cannot *imagine* why Armstrong would talk trash to Jordan after hitting the game winner.

The whole Smith story just underscores how exhausting it must have been to be on Bulls. 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Growsonwalls]

An article about MJ's disastrous comeback on the Wizards:

https://slate.com/culture/2020/05/the-last-dance-michael-jordan-bulls-wizards.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[DoctorAtomic]

I can get Jordan being pissed that the new players were acting like they owned a piece of the Bulls, especially after losing in the conference semis. 

I never knew Kerr swung first. And good for Jordan for taking it on to apologize (without like having to be told). I'm still surprised that's the only time something like that happened. 

I loved the choice of the BDP song to open the 72 win segment. 

Knock off with all the 'war' bullshit though. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think anyone can argue Payton is one of the great defenders of all time. I think if he guarded Jordan the whole time, Jordan would have figured him out. That's why it's a 7 game series. 

Also - Payton is misguided if he thinks out-defended would have won a title. You need to make shots down the stretch. Even in that era, you're not hoisting banners scoring in the mid 70s. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

An article about MJ's disastrous comeback on the Wizards:

https://slate.com/culture/2020/05/the-last-dance-michael-jordan-bulls-wizards.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Heh, I remember the day he left the Wizards for good, slowly driving out of the parking garage in a convertible with the top down, the sun shining down on his bald head.  We didn't miss him at all.

[Growsonwalls]

Watching the last two episodes. MJ sounds so incredibly petty about Karl Malone and Byron Russell.

[mojoween]

I know we keep saying it over and over but got damn.  Reggie Miller looks THE SAME. 

The Steve Kerr segment was powerful; I have to admit I never knew that about his dad.

[Growsonwalls]

58 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I know we keep saying it over and over but got damn.  Reggie Miller looks THE SAME. 

The Steve Kerr segment was powerful; I have to admit I never knew that about his dad.

Yes. Reggie Miller looks EXACTLY THE SAME. If you follow his IG he's a very active biker and keeps in shape though.

I did not know that about Steve Kerr's dad either. Wow. I see where he gets his social activism from though. Steve Kerr also looks the same.

Also, Obama needs to do more film voice-overs. He has a very soothing, deep voice. Just hearing him in that final voice-over was so soothing.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

The Steve Kerr segment was powerful; I have to admit I never knew that about his dad.

I remember the classy Sun Devil fans proceeded to chant "PLO" at him. He then dropped 22 as Arizona edged ASU by 30.

The two things I forgot:

1. Rodman disappearing after Game 3 in '98 to rassle with Hulk Hogan.
2. And how badly Karl Malone dressed. He was a millionaire in a league where everybody wore 4-figure suits, but he still dressed like a farm boy from Louisiana. Jorts and trucker hats? You almost have to respect it.

[mojoween]

I don’t think Michael came off badly in this at all.  I feel like every elite athlete is part asshole, and that’s what helps to make them great.  I thought he was funny and introspective and yeah, Scott Burrell didn’t deserve that but I’ve never been an athlete or worked in a locker room, so who am I to say?

I’m sad it’s over.

[Growsonwalls]

11 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

 

1. And how badly Karl Malone dressed. He was a millionaire in a league where everybody wore 4-figure suits, but he still dressed like a farm boy from Louisiana. Jorts and trucker hats? You almost have to respect it.

He still dresses really simple! Here he is in the LSU t-shirt and cap.

 

[LilWharveyGal]

At the opposite end of the sartorial spectrum I have to say I hope to be as regal as Mrs. Gus and Steve Kerr's mom someday. The latter was reminding me of a Kennedy.

[Danny Franks]

I'm still working my way through The Last Dance, and I'm watching the episode about Jordan's retirement. I know a lot of people always look for deeper reasons for it, the claims that he was secretly suspended for gambling and these sports journalists talking about how much it just doesn't make sense that he'd retire, trying to tie it to his private life.

No, it doesn't make sense. Because people who are grieving don't always make sensible decisions. I don't know about him already planning to retire and play baseball, that seems like a reaction to what happened, rather than something he was already seriously thinking about.

And okay, he wasn't good enough to be a MLB player but supposedly there's nothing more difficult in sports than hitting a baseball (the best batters in history could only hit 40% of the balls pitched at them), so the fact he could do it at all is impressive.

As for badly dressed? Man, those oversized 90s suits look absolutely terrible. Athletes in peak physical condition, with all the money in the world, and they wear such ill-fitting, ugly suits. How was that ever fashionable?

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

As for badly dressed? Man, those oversized 90s suits look absolutely terrible. Athletes in peak physical condition, with all the money in the world, and they wear such ill-fitting, ugly suits. How was that ever fashionable?

Also the SHOULDER PADS:

This contemporary picture is much better:

But wow you are right. Reggie Miller must have drunk some anti-aging elixir. He looks exactly the same.

[AimingforYoko]

20 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Reggie Miller must have drunk some anti-aging elixir. He looks exactly the same.

"Cheryl Miller's little brother plays basketball?"

[emma675]

I had no idea of the story about Steve Kerr's father, how tragic. He and his mom seem like lovely, grounded people who have worked hard for everything in their lives. 

Reggie Miller does not age. I want to know his secret. 

And Karl Malone has always had the fashion sense of a farmer and I love it. He's never tried to be or dress like something he's not. 

Do we think those guys in Utah poisoned Jordan's pizza or was it a big coincidence?

[Growsonwalls]

After watching last night I think Barack Obama and Reggie Miller look a lot alike, down to the jug ears. 

[LilWharveyGal]

55 minutes ago, emma675 said:

Do we think those guys in Utah poisoned Jordan's pizza or was it a big coincidence?

We were wondering that, too. And if everyone present thought that the delivery guys were shady, why on earth did Jordan eat the pizza?

[Sew Sumi]

48 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

We were wondering that, too. And if everyone present thought that the delivery guys were shady, why on earth did Jordan eat the pizza?

He was really hungry? 😁

Honestly, he should have left that shady pizza alone. The pizza place probably knew the hotel they were delivering to was the one that road teams stayed in while in SLC. 

[Growsonwalls]

I'm just kind of shocked that MJ the biggest superstar in the world couldn't get food except for a sketchy pizza delivery place.

[Carey]

7 hours ago, emma675 said:

I had no idea of the story about Steve Kerr's father, how tragic. He and his mom seem like lovely, grounded people who have worked hard for everything in their lives. 

I knew long ago that Steve Kerr's dad died way too soon more or less for others due to his service.  Wasn't aware of the circumstances, however.  Either way, that totally sucks.

[DoctorAtomic]

Reggie Miller has a portrait of himself in his attic.

[PepSinger]

I just want to quickly interject that Steve Kerr's grandfather and grandmother also have a fascinating past. I have wicked respect for that family.

Edited May 19, 2020 by PepSinger