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xaxat

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Ashforth
Ashforth

So I'll be the turd in the punchbowl. All of the news is about how great and wonderful Kobe was. Sure, he was a phenomenally talented athlete and apparently supported good causes. But he was also, in

twoods
twoods

Nobody is glossing over the alleged rape. In every single article I’ve seen (ESPN, NY times, SI, etc) there was a paragraph about his checkered past. It’s in the third or fourth paragraph, not in the

AimingforYoko
AimingforYoko

WNBA is 99% vaccinated, 0 positive tests this season. It's almost like there's a correlation.

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Magog

Magog

(edited)
13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:
13 hours ago, Jx223 said:

The rich get richer. 

I wonder if one of the reasons that Boogie decided to sign with the Warriors (not only because it's a much easier path to a ring) is because he was upset that teams like the Lakers/Pelicans didn't make more of an effort to sign him.  So he just went "Heck with it, might as well sign with the Warriors and get a ring". 

Yup, and it's a one-year deal. If he proves he's whole, he'll get his ring and get paid.

I don't blame him for that. He might as well go to those clowns because it'll probably be his only opportunity to get himself a ring. It worked out very well for one of the few classy Warriors (next to Draymond & Kerr), Swaggy P. 

 

16 hours ago, roamyn said:

Excuse me.  The refs had nothing to do w/warriors losing in 2016.  They didn’t tell Dramon to keep kicking people throughout the playoffs.  They didn’t keep shooting bricks in Game 7, for that matter they didn’t NOT score for 4 minutes.  They didn’t let their defense down in Games 5&6.  We don’t hate the Warriors, we hate the bandwagon millionaire fans who whine endlessly that everyone against them is a crybaby, or whine when they don’t win everything under the sun or when someone wears a T-shirt mocking the team (ah, you poor babies can’t handle ribbing - or ribbiting)

Thank you for that beautiful reminder. Now, those bandwagon millionaire fans have another team to root & whine for other than those Warriors. Except that team has been irrelevant for the past 5 yrs.

 

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Warriors get an All-Star that should have made max or close to max money to come there for the vet minimum. They can make up an All-Star team with their starting lineup. Why should we even watch the season?

It July 3rd & already I'm thinking the Western Conference is already over. This time, it didn't take reaching the first night of the season to get to this point like last season. 

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To watch the Celtics upset them in the Finals.

I will be rooting for Team Meteor than either one of those wretched teams. Both of them are very loathsome & now the Lakers (except for LeBron) are in that category. Frankly, the Lakers have always been in that category.

Edited by Magog
Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Amazing. I hope the Warriors win every game next season, and then sweep the playoffs. And then, when Durant leaves, they sign Anthony Davis to replace him. The amount of bitterness and envy from around the league is hilarious. Full grown adult journalists throwing tantrums because they won't get to do hot take stories about LeBron's Lakers or the Celtics finally getting the chance to win a championship.

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Maximum Taco

Maximum Taco

8 hours ago, Magog said:

It July 3rd & already I'm thinking the Western Conference is already over. This time, it didn't take reaching the first night of the season to get to this point like last season. 

I think you mean the League is over. 

Nobody in the East is stepping to the freaking Monstars. 

The Celts with Kyrie might fare better then the Cavs did this year, but I'd be surprised if they even pushed it to 7. 

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Amazing. I hope the Warriors win every game next season, and then sweep the playoffs. And then, when Durant leaves, they sign Anthony Davis to replace him. The amount of bitterness and envy from around the league is hilarious. Full grown adult journalists throwing tantrums because they won't get to do hot take stories about LeBron's Lakers or the Celtics finally getting the chance to win a championship.

I really hope that happens, because then maybe Adam Silver will finally do something about this joke of a league. 

Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)
19 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

I really hope that happens, because then maybe Adam Silver will finally do something about this joke of a league. 

But what's he going to do? The Warriors have worked within the strictures that the NBA players association agreed to.

Cousins is there for one year, he'll probably barely play for most of the regular season while he rehabs from injury. Then he'll come back for the playoffs and the chance of winning a ring. Then he'll go somewhere else, because the Warriors can't afford to give him a multi-year deal.

A hard cap isn't going to make a difference, because big market teams will still be able to convince veterans to take pay cuts for the chance of winning championships, and small market teams will have to overpay to get players to stay. And the end result will be the same. The Warriors are winning because they've instilled a culture that the players love. That's how they've managed to keep Curry, Thompson and Green happy, and to bring Durant in as well. And now Cousins. Has winning helped that? Of course. But the two go hand in hand. If all teams (and players) focused on getting their houses in order and fostering these positive, affirming environments, then maybe they'd be better equipped to compete.

Instead we get "Kyrie doesn't want to play with LeBron... LeBron doesn't want to play with Isaiah Thomas.... Jimmy Butler says it's him or Andrew Wiggins.... John Wall and Marcin Gortat can't stand each other.... Russell Westbrook hates anyone who tries to challenge him for supremacy in OKC. Not to mention Kawhi Leonard's tantrums in San Antonio. Hell, the Knicks under Phil Jackson's 'guidance' almost ruined their relationship with the one good player they have, Kristaps Porzingis.

Edited by Danny Franks
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Maximum Taco

Maximum Taco

(edited)
43 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

But what's he going to do? The Warriors have worked within the strictures that the NBA players association agreed to.

Cousins is there for one year, he'll probably barely play for most of the regular season while he rehabs from injury. Then he'll come back for the playoffs and the chance of winning a ring. Then he'll go somewhere else, because the Warriors can't afford to give him a multi-year deal.

A hard cap isn't going to make a difference, because big market teams will still be able to convince veterans to take pay cuts for the chance of winning championships, and small market teams will have to overpay to get players to stay. And the end result will be the same. The Warriors are winning because they've instilled a culture that the players love. That's how they've managed to keep Curry, Thompson and Green happy, and to bring Durant in as well. And now Cousins. Has winning helped that? Of course. But the two go hand in hand. If all teams (and players) focused on getting their houses in order and fostering these positive, affirming environments, then maybe they'd be better equipped to compete.

Instead we get "Kyrie doesn't want to play with LeBron... LeBron doesn't want to play with Isaiah Thomas.... Jimmy Butler says it's him or Andrew Wiggins.... John Wall and Marcin Gortat can't stand each other.... Russell Westbrook hates anyone who tries to challenge him for supremacy in OKC. Not to mention Kawhi Leonard's tantrums in San Antonio. Hell, the Knicks under Phil Jackson's 'guidance' almost ruined their relationship with the one good player they have, Kristaps Porzingis.

 

Restructure the CBA.

The NBA has a lot of well meaning rules that the Warriors are taking advantage of. Kudos to them, it's impressive and smart, but the NBA needs to respond by closing these loopholes. 

The Warriors are using the MLE right now in a way it was never intended to be used, FiveThirtyEight has an article on it right now: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-warriors-are-making-a-mockery-of-the-nba-salary-cap/

The NBA should close that loophole, it was designed to let capped out contenders add role players, not stars. If the Warriors want to ruin it for everybody the NBA should take the toy away. No MLE for anyone, and you can thank the Dubs for that.

It's the same thing the NHL did. When the teams tried to get smart and sign players to 15-20 year front loaded deals that everyone knew they would retire long before the deal expired, in order to lower the annual average value the NHL responded. They didn't say "Oh too bad those are the rules." instead they changed the rules, 7 year contract limits, and you can't distribute salary in a lop sided way anymore AND if an player who is 35 or older signs one, the salary cap is not alleviated when he retires. Now they are dealing with a whole new issue where the team claims that the player is injured instead of retired, but I'm sure that's gonna be worked out in the next CBA.

Edited by Maximum Taco
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DrSpaceman

DrSpaceman

21 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Restructure the CBA.

The NBA has a lot of well meaning rules that the Warriors are taking advantage of. Kudos to them, it's impressive and smart, but the NBA needs to respond by closing these loopholes. 

The Warriors are using the MLE right now in a way it was never intended to be used, FiveThirtyEight has an article on it right now: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-warriors-are-making-a-mockery-of-the-nba-salary-cap/

The NBA should close that loophole, it was designed to let capped out contenders add role players, not stars. If the Warriors want to ruin it for everybody the NBA should take the toy away. No MLE for anyone, and you can thank the Dubs for that.

It's the same thing the NHL did. When the teams tried to get smart and sign players to 15-20 year front loaded deals that everyone knew they would retire long before the deal expired, in order to lower the annual average value the NHL responded. They didn't say "Oh too bad those are the rules." instead they changed the rules, 7 year contract limits, and you can't distribute salary in a lop sided way anymore AND if an player who is 35 or older signs one, the salary cap is not alleviated when he retires. Now they are dealing with a whole new issue where the team claims that the player is injured instead of retired, but I'm sure that's gonna be worked out in the next CBA.

That really is just a bunch of whining from 538.  Basically "Its not fair these players take a discount to play for the Warriors"  Players took discounts to play with Lebron as well. 

OK, so get rid of the MLE then.   But don't blame the Warriors.  Blame the league for now more specifically defining it.  If they wanted to be used on "role players", they should have made that the rule somehow. 

The biggest thing though the NBA could do to return competitive balance the players will never allow :  guaranteed contracts.  Reduce or limit that and you give teams lots of flexibility.   Very few teams have any cap room right now to compete for free agents this offseason. You do that and Cousins has a whole lot more options on where to go without having to worry about the MLE. 

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Maximum Taco

Maximum Taco

(edited)
14 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

That really is just a bunch of whining from 538.  Basically "Its not fair these players take a discount to play for the Warriors"  Players took discounts to play with Lebron as well. 

OK, so get rid of the MLE then.   But don't blame the Warriors.  Blame the league for now more specifically defining it.  If they wanted to be used on "role players", they should have made that the rule somehow. 

The biggest thing though the NBA could do to return competitive balance the players will never allow :  guaranteed contracts.  Reduce or limit that and you give teams lots of flexibility.   Very few teams have any cap room right now to compete for free agents this offseason. You do that and Cousins has a whole lot more options on where to go without having to worry about the MLE. 

This is how rules evolve though. 

Before it was never expected that a team in the lead would just pass the ball and hold possession for minutes. Boom! The shot clock was introduced. 

This was intended to be used on role players, this is the first time it has been horribly abused. Now hopefully they'll fix it.

Edited by Maximum Taco
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)
24 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

This is how rules evolve though. 

Before it was never expected that a team in the lead would just pass the ball and hold possession for minutes. Boom! The shot clock was introduced. 

This was intended to be used on role players, this is the first time it has been horribly abused. Now hopefully they'll fix it.

 

How could anyone define what a "role player" is? How could the MLE be designed for such a nebulous concept? The Warriors shouldn't be blamed for stupid CBA clauses.

Players limited to 20 minutes a game? Less? What if they're signed as role players but outplay the starters? What if the team wants them to play thirty minutes a game? Or needs them to because of injuries? Cousins is a player coming back off a very serious injury, to a team of superstars. Could they not argue that he will only be a "role player"? He may not be healthy for a full time role.

All that has happened here is that a player has decided to take a very drastic pay cut to play for a team where he thinks he can win a ring. That's not new in sports.

What is new, to me, is the idea of a player not chasing money being met with revulsion.

Edited by Danny Franks
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Maximum Taco

Maximum Taco

(edited)
17 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

How could anyone define what a "role player" is? How could the MLE be designed for such a nebulous concept? The Warriors shouldn't be blamed for stupid CBA clauses.

Players limited to 20 minutes a game? Less? What if they're signed as role players but outplay the starters? What if the team wants them to play thirty minutes a game? Or needs them to because of injuries? Cousins is a player coming back off a very serious injury, to a team of superstars. Could they not argue that he will only be a "role player"? He may not be healthy for a full time role.

All that has happened here is that a player has decided to take a very drastic pay cut to play for a team where he thinks he can win a ring. That's not new in sports.

What is new, to me, is the idea of a player not chasing money being met with revulsion.

 

I agree, that's why I think the MLE itself should be eliminated. There's way too much opportunity for abuse. I'm honestly shocked that this is the first time it's happened. 

Also why should capped out teams get a benefit to sign role players? They already have a benefit over the other teams, that benefit is that they can spend to the cap. Oh poor rich team can't sign a player? Well tough, you should've been more mindful.

I don't hate the Warriors, or DeMarcus Cousins, they are using their smarts and means to win, that's what they are supposed to do. I'm mad at the NBA, they should be making the sport fair and even, really they just make it easier for the top teams to abuse the rules. 

Edited by Maximum Taco
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mojoween

mojoween

29 teams passed on Boogie.  Were the Warriors supposed to say “nah, thanks for the offer to take the pay cut, but we’re good”?

He has a bad wheel.  There is a chance he’ll never be a star again.  Of course, he could also be a Monstar, but only the Dubs decided to risk it.

One thing I absolutely loathe about the current NBA is as soon as someone signs with any team, the media spends six months panting about where the player is going to go at the end of their deal.  It’s SO annoying.

  • Love 9
DrSpaceman

DrSpaceman

Looks like Carmelo will end up in LA now. 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-thunder-will-part-ways-carmelo-anthony-saving-franchise-historically-high-payroll-170316964.html

Doesn't really matter.  The Lakers could take their pick of all the other players in the Western conference outside the Houston/GS, they still will be no better than 3rd in conference. 

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Jx223

Jx223

(edited)
23 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

Looks like Carmelo will end up in LA now. 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-thunder-will-part-ways-carmelo-anthony-saving-franchise-historically-high-payroll-170316964.html

Doesn't really matter.  The Lakers could take their pick of all the other players in the Western conference outside the Houston/GS, they still will be no better than 3rd in conference. 

I wish Melo the best. Unfortunately overall he just didn't play that well with the Thunder last  year. This move will save them a lot of  money on a very high payroll. I wonder which team he will go to next.

Edited by Jx223
LexieLily

LexieLily

(edited)
3 minutes ago, twoods said:

Yeah, this makes me sad. I thought that all of the big three would retire with the Spurs since it’s so rare to see one player with the same team from draft to retirement. 

I'm almost certain the Spurs will do that thing at the end when they re-sign him for a day so he can retire a Spur, like Boston did for Pierce. But you're right, it's not the same. It's like when Olajuwon went to Toronto at the end, I choose not to remember those years; to me, he's always been a Rocket.

Dirk and Manu are the only ones left. Kobe made it to 20 years, Duncan 19. Manu is at 16 (He was drafted in 1999 but didn't join the Spurs until 2002, thanks Wikipedia) and Dirk is at 20. The 2018-19 season will be his 21st with one team. Yay Dirk! I'm glad someone will beat Kobe's record even though I hoped Duncan would.

Edited by LexieLily
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

17 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

Looks like Carmelo will end up in LA now. 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-thunder-will-part-ways-carmelo-anthony-saving-franchise-historically-high-payroll-170316964.html

Doesn't really matter.  The Lakers could take their pick of all the other players in the Western conference outside the Houston/GS, they still will be no better than 3rd in conference. 

As has been said in multiple places online, the Lakers are going all out for that 2012 Championship! James, Rondo, Stephenson and now Anthony? All they need to do now is convince Kevin Garnett or Kobe to come out of retirement.

The Spurs are going to go through a massive change anyway, in the next two years or so, when Pop retires, so trying to hold it all together is a little pointless anyway. Kawhi obviously wants to throw tantrums (but only through surrogates, because he's apparently incapable of speaking for himself), Parker is gone, Ginobili will retire soon. Whether they manage to keep the same ethos as a franchise is a big question. But at least Parker gets to chill out in Charlotte for a year or two.

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Kip Hackman

Kip Hackman

It's hard to take Aldridge seriously when he says stuff like this:

Quote

The Hornets had the room to sign Durant. But they re-signed Nicolas Batum.

As if Durant would've come to Charlotte if they hadn't signed Batum. The fact is, teams like Charlotte (and Memphis, Orlando, etc) have to overpay their guys to stay, because free agents don't want to go there.

Quote

Fans say they want parity. What they really want is to be able to watch great teams like the Warriors with familiar household names: Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, Draymond Green and Klay Thompson. Just as they watched Magic Johnson’s Lakers against Larry Bird’s Celtics, and watched Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman and coach Phil Jackson, over and over and over.

David Aldridge has no idea what fans want. Because he's not a fan.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

 If NBA fans want parity, then they're watching the wrong sport. There's never been parity in the NBA. It's been one would-be dynasty after another, broken up by a few outlying years, since... well, since the founding of the league.

Before the Warriors, the Heat appeared in four Finals in a row. Before that, the Lakers appeared in three in a row. Then the Pistons repeated, then the Spurs, then the Lakers with three. Then the Bulls with six, split by the Rockets winning two.

You have to go back twenty years, just to see half the teams in the league making appearances in the Finals. That's not parity. You have to go back to 1979 to encompass a period that has seen more than twenty different teams in the Finals.

All "parity" means is, 'four or five teams are good, and share the championships out amongst themselves.' It just sucks for them that the Warriors have forced themselves into that equation. But it's sucked for a lot of the league for a long, long time. If the Warriors stop winning, it'll be because some other team builds a dynasty, and fans will still complain.

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DrSpaceman

DrSpaceman

I don't think the NBA, or the fans, wants parity. 

NBA fans want their team to win.  I know I do.  I don't care about parity in the league. 

The NBA has always been sold on superstars. dominant league figures.  Not on parity.  You tune in to watch the great ones.  Jordan.  Lebron.  Kobe. Magic. Bird.  You don't tune in because of the intrigue and not knowing who is likely to win.  You watch because you want to see if anyone can knock off the great players in history. 

Or in the finals you tune in to watch two or more dominant players square off. 

Occasionally it happens.  Detroit one season managed to beat Kobe and the Lakers.  Not just Kobe but that was the year they had the "stacked" team that was supposedly unbeatable with Karl Malone and I think Payton plus Kobe and Shaq. 

Most of the time, that does not happen though. 

The NFL is all about parity.  The one and done playoffs and a number of factors play into that situation.  Upsets happen

The NBA is not about parity.  Its unlikely an underdog is going to win a seven game series. 

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Fukui San

Fukui San

There’s parity and there’s rewarding a team for good decisions. The Warriors hit three absolute home runs on middling draft assets in Curry, Green and Thompson which led to other players choosing to go there first. That’s at least rewarding teams for drafting well and building a winning culture.

Meanwhile the Lakers flubbed three #2 overall picks and get bailed out because LeBron likes living in LA and legacy. They almost couldn’t have chosen worse before LeBron came to save the day.  If I had to choose karmically between Warriors winning 11 of 13 or the Lakers win 2 more before LeBron is done, I’d choose the Warriors run. 

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Jx223

Jx223

(edited)
On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:49 AM, Kip Hackman said:

 But as far as I'm concerned, the more teams with a shot to win, the more interesting the league is.

I agree with you. The league is not that competitive right now and I find that unfortunate. Even worse that the dominating team (The Warriors) is a team I can't. Even with some of the other dynasties, other teams had an opportunity to win and keep things competitive. Right now we don't really have that and it's given us really bad playoff and final series.

There are people that definitely DO care about this.   Granted,, there are some that don't, like people that love the Warrior/hate LeBron and decide to bandwagon on the Warriors as a result. Or people that have bad teams that never are going to go anywhere (like bad East Coast teams) and don't care, people that like domination etc... 

Also, according, to reporters from ESPN and other sources, the Raptors are finalizing a deal to get Kawhi Leonard from the Spurs. The trade package for him would include sending DeMar DeRozan to the Spurs. It sounds like neither DeMar nor Kawhi are that enthusiastic  about this trade. 

Edited by Jx223
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Magog

Magog

(edited)
Quote

Also, according, to reporters from ESPN and other sources, the Raptors are finalizing a deal to get Kawhi Leonard from the Spurs. The trade package for him would include sending DeMar DeRozan to the Spurs. It sounds like neither DeMar nor Kawhi are that enthusiastic  about this trade. 

Why do I have a bad feeling that this could badly for the Raptors? Unlike the Lakers (except for LeBron of course), the Raptors are always very likeable to me. But this trade has bad vibes written all over for them. 

Besides, do we even know if Kwhai has recovered from his injury & is back to his old self yet? Funny, that he never talked very much about that from his "camp." I can careless about his feelings & wanting to go to the Lakers so badly that he is not happy about going to Toronto. I don't see much difference in somehow possibly getting to the Finals being on the Raptors or the Lakers (if they somehow don't get pummeled by those Warriors), other than him getting there for the Lakers isn't anything special. 

I do feel bad DeMar DeRozan. He gave it he got for the Raptors & this is how they thank him.

Edited by Magog
isalicat

isalicat

As I understand it, Kawhi will be free to jump over to the Lakers in a year and they should have cap space to afford him, if (and that is a really big if) he is back to playing 100%, which I doubt. But yeah, Pops was not going to let him go to another western conference team. Unfortunately the Raptors canned their most excellent coach so who knows what will happen to that team this year. It looks like it will be all Celtics in l'east if they can stay healthy.

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LexieLily

LexieLily

5 hours ago, isalicat said:

As I understand it, Kawhi will be free to jump over to the Lakers in a year and they should have cap space to afford him, if (and that is a really big if) he is back to playing 100%, which I doubt. But yeah, Pops was not going to let him go to another western conference team. Unfortunately the Raptors canned their most excellent coach so who knows what will happen to that team this year. It looks like it will be all Celtics in l'east if they can stay healthy.

That's what the Lakers thought about Paul George, too.

  • Love 1
LexieLily

LexieLily

3 hours ago, twoods said:

Poor DeRozan. He stayed with the Raptors through the bad years, built a winning team (with Lowry) and gave it his all, and this is how they repay him. Kudos to the Spurs for getting a guy with a great work ethic who won’t sulk on the bench refusing to play. I guess this is karma for the Raptors for firing a winning coach?

He also gets to - still - play LeBron three or four times a year. Double ouch!

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