S07.E09: Birthday In The Berks

[WireWrap]

Of course you do.....unless you're Heather. ;)

Of course you do.....unless you are on a "Reality" show ........and paid to do so "On" camera! LOL

[ryebread]

How does Heather turn her own bossiness into Bethenny telling her what to do? I can't. Bethenny asks her to back off and Heather tells her to just talk to Sonja then... as if that wasn't what she was already doing..

I giggled when Heather said that and thought the exact same thing you did.

 

Heather did NOT mention that article at all. She said that someone "Googled" him, the reporter of the group (Carole) and he replied to "not believe everything they read". Heather never mentioned Ramona, Mario or the mistress to anyone at any time during the dinner

 

But she kept dogging him. In addition to what others have mentioned, she said (and I'm paraphrasing), "You wanna be roasted? We can certainly make that happen!" What do you think she might've been referring to?

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by ryebread

[ryebread]

You pull someone aside for something like that.  You don't do it on camera in front of an entire dinner party. 

Especially when he was already squirming.  I'm even suspect of her asking about his businesses.  Sure "AOL" could have been a mistake.  But how could this Know it All, not know it all?  And when he said he didn't start off in the restaurant business, found it hard and failed at Biche (sp?), she said in her obnoxious, condescending way, "Start a business, what's to know?"  Like, do you think opening a business is like writing a long email? You didn't hone your craft?  You didn't suffer for your art?

 

He was already uncomfortable and mentioned feeling roasted  Heather made sure to tell him that's not what was happening but she could make it happen.  Bless her heart.  Of course she could.

[ryebread]

So can editors influence us and our reactions to people on a reality show?  Absolutely.

I don't know if you're responding to my post about me not buying the editor's ability to change the HWs personalities or not.  But with what you've written I agree -  They CAN influence US and our REACTIONS.

 

However, what I said is they CAN'T manufacture the thin to thick layer of ugly that every famewhore possesses.  Having that ugly is prerequisite.  We've all got it but then there's that added 'something' I was talking about that makes them risk unveiling it on national TV.  Not everybody has got that.

[motorcitymom65]

You pull someone aside for something like that.  You don't do it on camera in front of an entire dinner party.

The dinner party conversation cracks me up, mainly with the idea that anyone knows what Heather's intent was. How can we know that? My assumption would be that if she wanted to get into the taudry stuff she would have. Lots of folks seem to be saying Heather cannot read a room, so what would it matter if her was tying to shut it down? And my opinion is that this guy knew what he was getting into. He has willingly appeared on camera with Ramona on several occasions. He made the long drive there and back on one night. He seems to be fine being on the show and taking part. He is hardly some unwilling victim in all of this.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Of course you do.....unless you are on a "Reality" show ........and paid to do so "On" camera! LOL

I thought your position was that Heather was trying to warn Peter. She should not really be doing that if she is concerned about being a good reality star. It would cut down on the drama the producers are trying to create. So to suggest now she was only needling Peter because she is paid to do it is kind of inconsistent. It feels like grasping for anything to defend Heather.

The dinner party conversation cracks me up, mainly with the idea that anyone knows what Heather's intent was. How can we know that? My assumption would be that if she wanted to get into the taudry stuff she would have. Lots of folks seem to be saying Heather cannot read a room, so what would it matter if her was tying to shut it down? And my opinion is that this guy knew what he was getting into. He has willingly appeared on camera with Ramona on several occasions. He made the long drive there and back on one night. He seems to be fine being on the show and taking part. He is hardly some unwilling victim in all of this.

Heather's motives are as capable of being analyzed and guessed about as any of the other housewives are, which is done all the time. She is not special.

And even if she shouldn't care about embarrassing Peter, she ought to be more concerned about hurting Ramona. But then again, Ramona is on the show and has dared to mention her divorce, so as far as Heather is concerned, it's no holds barred. It's no wonder the one person on the cast who Heather seems to really be friends with is super laid back Carole. And even she seemed very put off by the way Heather was acting at the dinner. She really made an ass of herself.

[aradia22]

 

Aw, give it a try & come back & tell us if you likey -- pretty please?  My supermarket had SG flavored water on sale this week for a buck & I still didn't want to try it.  And btw, the shelves were fully stocked with the stuff.  Wonder how SG sales are these days.

I've been wanting to bring this up but it keeps slipping my mind. I don't remember if it's the water or sparklers but there are a bunch of flavors of SkinnyGirl... something being sold at all the local grocery stores in Chinatown. Now, it's not crazy as they do have sodas and cereal and some other "American" items. I don't know if I just never noticed it before seeing SG all over the place on this show. As with the good present/bad present question I don't know if the ubiquity means it's successful or not. 

[WireWrap]

I thought your position was that Heather was trying to warn Peter. She should not really be doing that if she is concerned about being a good reality star. It would cut down on the drama the producers are trying to create. So to suggest now she was only needling Peter because she is paid to do it is kind of inconsistent. It feels like grasping for anything to defend Heather.

Heather's motives are as capable of being analyzed and guessed about as any of the other housewives are, which is done all the time. She is not special.

And even if she shouldn't care about embarrassing Peter, she ought to be more concerned about hurting Ramona. But then again, Ramona is on the show and has dared to mention her divorce, so as far as Heather is concerned, it's no holds barred. It's no wonder the one person on the cast who Heather seems to really be friends with is super laid back Carole. And even she seemed very put off by the way Heather was acting at the dinner. She really made an ass of herself.

It was/is a general statement about all the HW's on all the HW shows and to my knowledge Heather is on a HW show as is Bethenny and they are to bring it. I will also restate my opinion, which is that had Heather's intent been to embarrass this guy, she would have fully revealed the contents of that article instead of steering the conversation to his restaurants instead. But I do not claim to read minds so who knows what her intent was other than talking to him about business because that is all they talked about.

[Almost 3000]

It was/is a general statement about all the HW's on all the HW shows and to my knowledge Heather is on a HW show as is Bethenny and they are to bring it. I will also restate my opinion, which is that had Heather's intent been to embarrass this guy, she would have fully revealed the contents of that article instead of steering the conversation to his restaurants instead. But I do not claim to read minds so who knows what her intent was other than talking to him about business because that is all they talked about.

Maybe Heather brought it up in hopes that another big mouth cast member would take the bait and out him and in doing so embarrass Ramona too. Heather might just have not wanted to be the bad guy but wouldn't have minded if someone else finished what she started. I usually rather like Heather but she has been in search of a story this season and is almost in the Kristen category of trying to justify her full time housewife status.

[FozzyBear]

It was/is a general statement about all the HW's on all the HW shows and to my knowledge Heather is on a HW show as is Bethenny and they are to bring it. I will also restate my opinion, which is that had Heather's intent been to embarrass this guy, she would have fully revealed the contents of that article instead of steering the conversation to his restaurants instead. But I do not claim to read minds so who knows what her intent was other than talking to him about business because that is all they talked about.

I don't think she was trying to embarrass him. I think she just can't read a room and didn't realize he was embarrassed and then when he hinted that he might be a bit uncomfortable ("Is this a roast?" Or whatever he said.) Heather tried to make a joke that landed like a lead balloon. Yeah, Heather's not that graceful a conversationalist. I think it's all pretty well meaning, but I can understand why some people don't take it that way. She has a really bad temper when she feels backed into a corner or disrespected. I think things can play out like this:

Heather: *talking*

Other person: *subtle hint to change the subject*

Heather:*keeps talking*

Other person: *not subtle hint to change the subject*

Heather: *keeps talking*

Other person: Heather! This is none of your business!

Heather: Dont you tell me what's my fucking business! I'll say whatever the fuck I want about whatever the fuck I want!

Other Person: oh fuck you!

To Heather I think this all sounds like helpful conversation, helpful conversation, then "Fuck you gently with a chainsaw, Heather!" out of the blue.

I think the AOL thing was just an innocent slip of the tongue. For Gen Xers, there was a time that AOL was up there with Kleenex for ubiquitous brand recognition. I think that was just a 2nd glass of wine slip of the tongue.

[WireWrap]

I don't think she was trying to embarrass him. I think she just can't read a room and didn't realize he was embarrassed and then when he hinted that he might be a bit uncomfortable ("Is this a roast?" Or whatever he said.) Heather tried to make a joke that landed like a lead balloon. Yeah, Heather's not that graceful a conversationalist. I think it's all pretty well meaning, but I can understand why some people don't take it that way. She has a really bad temper when she feels backed into a corner or disrespected. I think things can play out like this:

Heather: *talking*

Other person: *subtle hint to change the subject*

Heather:*keeps talking*

Other person: *not subtle hint to change the subject*

Heather: *keeps talking*

Other person: Heather! This is none of your business!

Heather: Dont you tell me what's my fucking business! I'll say whatever the fuck I want about whatever the fuck I want!

Other Person: oh fuck you!

To Heather I think this all sounds like helpful conversation, helpful conversation, then "Fuck you gently with a chainsaw, Heather!" out of the blue.

I think the AOL thing was just an innocent slip of the tongue. For Gen Xers, there was a time that AOL was up there with Kleenex for ubiquitous brand recognition. I think that was just a 2nd glass of wine slip of the tongue.

Yes, she can be bull in a china shop at times and ITA, I don't think she as trying to introduce the shared mistress article at all. There is/was no reason for her to embarrass this guy or to hurt Ramona just for sport. I do think she was giving him a heads up that someone else may bring it up though but I don't think we will even know. JMO

[Grneyedldy]

We really don't know if Heather said more to Ramona's date. It could have been non climatic since the info was actually old news at the time (or so someone posted up thread). We didn't see the whole dinner and I've read that these dinners can last for hours with production. One of my pet peeves is when they supposedly show a HW's reaction to something and the actual footage has nothing to do with the case at hand. They do it ALL.THE.TIME!

[lunastartron]

This thread and the one devoted specifically to Heather are replete with contentions that Heather "means well" - that's speculation/inference about Heather's intent (and is also counter to Heather's eye-rolling about Bethenny's childhood trauma and personal problems). It's no more outlandish or ridiculous to conjecture about Heather's motivations in her inquisition of Ramona's friend than it is to transpose benevolent meaning (that Heather is "quick to move on"; "get out of this right now" is really a loving request; LuAnn didn't have any problem with Heather screaming ferally at her guests even though she tried time and again to make everyone stop shouting and eventually showed everyone the door) onto her most memorable faux pas . . . And I, too, recall the hem-haw-worthy fashion in which Jill (and, in a more indirect way, Aviva) tried to attribute their behavior to editing and production influence. What was applicable then remains so now - these women (with the exception of Kristen) are all forty plus. They have agency. They have all been socialized. Why are Heather's bad manners inherently more acceptable than, say, Sonja's psychosis or Aviva's accurate if over-the-top read-cum-excoriation of Ramona and Sonja in St. Barth's? Heather is just messy, messy in her desperation for conflict; she's almost like a less violent Drita D'Avanzo. From wagging her finger at Aviva in her own home and warning her "to be careful"; to snarling at her husband; to screaming "no one here likes you! Get the fuck out" to Aviva (funny, since Aviva was invited to said party); to yelling "I don't have time for this!" at last season's finale (okay, then why are you on the show?); to clutching her chest over the moral predicament LuAnn put her in vis-a-vis PirateGate (how could Heather be expected to mind her own business? She'd known Jacques for a full couple of months!), Heather has chased after dispute after dispute. Which is all well and good- the show has to be about something. But then it's really, well, eye-roll-worthy when she plays the poor, abused victim in her talking heads, on social media, and during filming.

[FozzyBear]

This thread and the one devoted specifically to Heather are replete with contentions that Heather "means well" - that's speculation/inference about Heather's intent (and is also counter to Heather's eye-rolling about Bethenny's childhood trauma and personal problems). It's no more outlandish or ridiculous to conjecture about Heather's motivations in her inquisition of Ramona's friend than it is to transpose benevolent meaning (that Heather is "quick to move on"; "get out of this right now" is really a loving request; LuAnn didn't have any problem with Heather screaming ferally at her guests even though she tried time and again to make everyone stop shouting and eventually showed everyone the door) onto her most memorable faux pas . . . And I, too, recall the hem-haw-worthy fashion in which Jill (and, in a more indirect way, Aviva) tried to attribute their behavior to editing and production influence. What was applicable then remains so now - these women (with the exception of Kristen) are all forty plus. They have agency. They have all been socialized. Why are Heather's bad manners inherently more acceptable than, say, Sonja's psychosis or Aviva's accurate if over-the-top read-cum-excoriation of Ramona and Sonja in St. Barth's? Heather is just messy, messy in her desperation for conflict; she's almost like a less violent Drita D'Avanzo. From wagging her finger at Aviva in her own home and warning her "to be careful"; to snarling at her husband; to screaming "no one here likes you! Get the fuck out" to Aviva (funny, since Aviva was invited to said party); to yelling "I don't have time for this!" at last season's finale (okay, then why are you on the show?); to clutching her chest over the moral predicament LuAnn put her in vis-a-vis PirateGate (how could Heather be expected to mind her own business? She'd known Jacques for a full couple of months!), Heather has chased after dispute after dispute. Which is all well and good- the show has to be about something. But then it's really, well, eye-roll-worthy when she plays the poor, abused victim in her talking heads, on social media, and during filming.

Oh absolutely! I've said time and again that I eye roll the bad edit defense. You're a grown woman who has been on multiple seasons of a reality to show. At the very least learn how to do this better and get a better edit then. Heather being more or less well intended, but too self involved to notice any reaction until someone is literally screaming at her is just my take. I'm more than willing to entertain a Heather is a crazy bitch scenario too.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Maybe Heather brought it up in hopes that another big mouth cast member would take the bait and out him and in doing so embarrass Ramona too. Heather might just have not wanted to be the bad guy but wouldn't have minded if someone else finished what she started.

 

I think that was why she mentioned that the journalist in the group was researching him.  She was hoping the journalist in the group would give her an assist.  Fortunately, the journalist in the group had too much sense to get involved, lol.  

 

 

I don't think she was trying to embarrass him. I think she just can't read a room and didn't realize he was embarrassed and then when he hinted that he might be a bit uncomfortable ("Is this a roast?" Or whatever he said.) Heather tried to make a joke that landed like a lead balloon. Yeah, Heather's not that graceful a conversationalist. I think it's all pretty well meaning, but I can understand why some people don't take it that way. She has a really bad temper when she feels backed into a corner or disrespected

 

You are right, Heather is not a gifted conversationalist.  It's like she was trying to be the MC of the dinner table or something and it just came across as heavy handed and controlling.  You can tell she is used to being in charge whenever she talks to anyone.  And yeah, she really can't handle it when it doesn't work out.  She doesn't seem to realize that while she may be able to dictate how a conversation goes with her employees, other people don't appreciate that kind of thing.  It's freaky how she just flips out about it. 

 

 

 

There is/was no reason for her to embarrass this guy or to hurt Ramona just for sport. 

 

They do and say all kinds of things on this show because the producers encourage it.  WIth this overloaded cast and Heather  probably being worried about what Bethenny's return to the show may mean for her job security, I think she would jump through a a flaming hoop and land in a baby pool filled with SkinnyGirl Sangria if the producers asked her to.  Bringing up an embarrassing story on camera to create a SCENE! was a piece of cake. 

 

 

 

This thread and the one devoted specifically to Heather are replete with contentions that Heather "means well" - that's speculation/inference about Heather's intent ...  It's no more outlandish or ridiculous to conjecture about Heather's motivations in her inquisition of Ramona's friend than it is to transpose benevolent meaning (that Heather is "quick to move on"; "get out of this right now" is really a loving request; 

 

The rules regarding what it is fair to guess about do seem to change depending upon who the subject is and whether the speculation results in a positive or negative impression, don't they? LOL!  

[film noire]

to clutching her chest over the moral predicament LuAnn put her in vis-a-vis PirateGate (how could Heather be expected to mind her own business? She'd known Jacques for a full couple of months!), Heather has chased after dispute after dispute. Which is all well and good- the show has to be about something. But then it's really, well, eye-roll-worthy when she plays the poor, abused victim in her talking heads, on social media, and during filming.

 

Oh, Lunastartron, who can know the mind of The Heathers? Perhaps you're wrong and she was just being helpful when she ran to Carole with fresh hot gossip -- about Luann and the pirate stumbling into her room by accident -- driven mad with concern because she just wanted to save Jacques from the humiliation of a very public embarrassment....oh wait.

 

Well, we can point to her being helpful when delivering a talking head about walking in on Sonja and Tomas -- "At last, the bruises make sense!" -- no doubt she meant it as a PSA about sexual abuse visited upon forty-something women with the letter J in their name once married to a man named Morgan now living in a Gray Garden-like brownstone while making Dorinda's next dinner for twenty in a toaster oven -- it's all good, LuNuStar!:)

Edited June 6, 2015 by film noire

[BeachyMum]

So can editors influence us and our reactions to people on a reality show?  Absolutely.  Case in point - Beth and Heather's conversation about Beth's custody.  The scene opens in the middle of a conversation between Beth and Heather.  Heather is asking Beth about clarification of something Beth said.  Beth clarifies.  The conversation continues on both their parts.  Beth is not acting uncomfortable at all.  Then they throw in a Beth talking head about how she doesn't want to discuss her custody with anyone.  The whole presentation of the scene is changed....even though Beth never gave any indication that she was uncomfortable or upset during the scene.  That TH changes how the scene is interpreted by many viewers. 

 

Beth arrives at Do's house.  Insert Heather making a sour face.  Commercial break.  Beth is shown entering the room.  Heather has her head turned to Beth and to me appears smiling.  Changes the whole presentation of what actually happened.  The sour face presents something that wasn't there.

 

Dinner scene.  Heather says something to Beth while you can hear a whole lot of other conversation going on.  Cut to a head shot of Kristen.  Who by the way is at the other end of the table.  How she could have even heard anything is beyond me.  We also had head shots of others that may well never even hears what was happening creating more drama to the scene.   The editors are cutting and splicing.

 

Atlantic City - A comment is made by Beth about Heather being late as they are ready to leave for dinner.  She also said something in her blog.  The truth was that Heather lent Beth her hairdresser and let Beth use her first.  Beth fails to mention this or even thank her in her blog.  No TH from Heather to explain that.

 

So, if viewers don't think that the editing monkeys are working to portray a story they want tell, just watch the editing.  Notice the cuts to TH's.  Notice the reactions that not always match the scene.  Notice the splicing of scenes that are not seamless.  They play the viewers for sake of the story. 

 

And yes, Heather can be somewhat more of a take charge person at times.  A lot of this, IMO, comes from running a company that, because of the type of company it is, she has more people who work for her than the other women and that she has had to be the advocate for a child with serious medical issues).  Because of my own experience, I get that. 

 

But IMO, she is very much getting the bitch edit. 

After re-watching I completely agree!!! I could not figure out why Heather irked me this episode when I have always liked Heather.  Now it all makes sense. :)

Edited June 6, 2015 by BeachyMum

[WireWrap]

Oh, Lunastartron, who can know the mind of The Heathers? Perhaps you're wrong and she was just being helpful when she ran to Carole with fresh hot gossip -- about Luann and the pirate stumbling into her room by accident -- driven mad with concern because she just wanted to save Jacques from the humiliation of a very public embarrassment....oh wait.

 

Well, we can point to her being helpful when delivering a talking head about walking in on Sonja and Tomas -- "At last, the bruises make sense!" -- no doubt she meant it as a PSA about sexual abuse visited upon forty-something women with the letter J in their name once married to a man named Morgan now living in a Gray Garden-like brownstone while making Dorinda's next dinner for twenty in a toaster oven -- it's all good, LuNuStar!:)

Why are some now trying to peg what Carole did on Heather? It was Carole that caught Sonja with the pirate, not Heather! Carole was also the one that spread the "gossip/first hand eyewitness account" about Sonja in the garden, not Heather. Why is it so hard to understand that Heather, or any of the HWs, my have felt uncomfortable with knowing LuAnn cheated on Jacques and lied to him after they became better friends off camera? Heather became off camera friends with Carole and LuAnn, which can and does happen on these HW shows just as it does in other more average work places.

[Wendy]

You can edit facial gestures, maybe even talking heads filmed after the fact to clarify an intention, what editing can't do is put words in a persons mouth or actions that are done in sequence with another cast members

Heather's worst moments are those when she is being confrontational and passive aggressive, Bravo didn't edited that or made them up, Heather indeed acted like a crazed out of control and belligerent asshole.

"We have a journalist and she googled you, this is not a roast but we can certainly work one out, she doesn't want my help so she will eat nothing, I am gonna have to separate you two, I can say whatever the fuck I want" followed by her astonishing walking towards the other side of the table to grab Bethenny's hand and trying to get her away to another room to continue the badgering.

None of those moments were edited, Heather using that excuse makes her feel weak IMO, she should just own up to her horrible behavior instead of blaming everybody else but her.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Wendy

[WireWrap]

You can edit facial gestures, maybe even talking heads filmed after the fact to clarify an intention, what editing can't do is put words in a persons mouth or actions that are done in sequence with another cast members

Heather's worst moments are those when she is being confrontational and passive aggressive, Bravo didn't edited that or made them up, Heather indeed acted like a crazed out of control and belligerent asshole.

"We have a journalist and she googled you, this is not a roast but we can certainly work one out, she doesn't want my help so she will eat nothing, I am gonna have to separate you two, I can say whatever the fuck I want" followed by her astonishing walking towards the other side of the table to grab Bethenny's hand and trying to get her away to another room to continue the badgering.

None of those moments were edited, Heather using that excuse makes her feel weak IMO, she should just own up to her horrible behavior instead of blaming everybody else but her.

Ummm, did you read her blog? She owned up to her behavior. JS

[lunastartron]

In her blog, Heather says that suddenly she and Bethenny are going at it again - as if their second back-and-forth just spontaneously transpired rather than Heather electing to directly engage Bethenny by telling her, "I'm going to separate you two." On Twitter, she attributes "50" percent of her behavior to "editing." How is that "owning" her conduct? She also presents rolling her eyes at Lu's defense of Bethenny at the inn as an earnest effort to sympathize with Bethenny's troubles and her comparison of Bethenny's turmoil to losing a nanny as . . . not a comparison. All my interpretation, of course.

[ryebread]

Owning up to one's bad behavior.  Apologizing for one's behavior.  Alike or different?

 

Not once have I ever heard "I'm sorry" come out of Heather's mouth.  Not once.  And I keep listening for it.  She can turn things upside down to make what she's done someone else's fault.  She can be an utter bitch (Montana) and think her behavior is fine but when Kristen upsets Heather by saying she's the boss of Jonathon (not much of a stretch in my imagination, but unkind of Kristen to say so) Kristen has no problem apologizing.  But anything resembling an apology, or owning up, from Heather? 

 

Damn, the crickets in Montana are loud m'effers.

[FozzyBear]

In her blog, Heather says that suddenly she and Bethenny are going at it again - as if their second back-and-forth just spontaneously transpired rather than Heather electing to directly engage Bethenny by telling her, "I'm going to separate you two." On Twitter, she attributes "50" percent of her behavior to "editing." How is that "owning" her conduct? She also presents rolling her eyes at Lu's defense of Bethenny at the inn as an earnest effort to sympathize with Bethenny's troubles and her comparison of Bethenny's turmoil to losing a nanny as . . . not a comparison. All my interpretation, of course.

Yeaaaaaaah. I don't really read the Housewife blogs due to a lack of interest on their spin (these chicks ain't Joan Didion) so I don't have much to compare it to, but... Expressing why you were just misunderstood at every turn isn't really owning up to your own behavior. She pretty much just says why it's everybody else's fault if she seemed like a bitch. Your basic "I didn't do it and if I did it was totally justified." Not that I have that many fucks to give on the subject of after spin anyway. I generally care how people behave, not how much they own their begavior after the fact. "Owning it" is overrated in my book. Reason #6894 why I'll never be cast on a reality show.

Owning up to one's bad behavior. Apologizing for one's behavior. Alike or different?

Not once have I ever heard "I'm sorry" come out of Heather's mouth. Not once. And I keep listening for it. She can turn things upside down to make what she's done someone else's fault. She can be an utter bitch (Montana) and think her behavior is fine but when Kristen upsets Heather by saying she's the boss of Jonathon (not much of a stretch in my imagination, but unkind of Kristen to say so) Kristen has no problem apologizing. But anything resembling an apology, or owning up, from Heather?

Damn, the crickets in Montana are loud m'effers.

To quote: "Holla!"

Apology: I'm so sorry I went rogue at the dinner. I should have just let it go when you asked me to. I will really try in the future to remember not to butt in unless you ask me to.

Owning it: Heather's blog? I guess?

Eh, I'm not a fan of owning it. Re:see above.

Edited June 6, 2015 by FozzyBear

[AnnA]

Owning up to one's bad behavior.  Apologizing for one's behavior.  Alike or different?

 

Not once have I ever heard "I'm sorry" come out of Heather's mouth.  Not once.  And I keep listening for it.  She can turn things upside down to make what she's done someone else's fault.  

 

Very different!

 

What she says is often bad enough but the way she says it is very telling.

 

Her facial expressions say it all.

 

[motorcitymom65]

In her blog, Heather says that suddenly she and Bethenny are going at it again - as if their second back-and-forth just spontaneously transpired rather than Heather electing to directly engage Bethenny by telling her, "I'm going to separate you two." On Twitter, she attributes "50" percent of her behavior to "editing." How is that "owning" her conduct? She also presents rolling her eyes at Lu's defense of Bethenny at the inn as an earnest effort to sympathize with Bethenny's troubles and her comparison of Bethenny's turmoil to losing a nanny as . . . not a comparison. All my interpretation, of course.

But she also said that she has become "harsh" in her interactions with Beth. It is beyond rare that you will ever hear a HW say anything like that. Ever.

[Jel]

Heather: *talking*

Other person: *subtle hint to change the subject*

Heather:*keeps talking*

Other person: *not subtle hint to change the subject*

Heather: *keeps talking*

Other person: Heather! This is none of your business!

Heather: Dont you tell me what's my fucking business! I'll say whatever the fuck I want about whatever the fuck I want!

Other Person: oh fuck you!

To Heather I think this all sounds like helpful conversation, helpful conversation, then "Fuck you gently with a chainsaw, Heather!" out of the blue.

 

Interesting take on that conversation as helpful or well-intentioned. Honestly, to me it reads like an example of how exactly to be incredibly rude.  

 

I am sincerely trying to see that as helpful <squinting super hard>.  Nope, can't do it!

[FozzyBear]

Interesting take on that conversation as helpful or well-intentioned. Honestly, to me it reads like an example of how exactly to be incredibly rude.

I am sincerely trying to see that as helpful <squinting super hard>. Nope, can't do it!

I don't disagree. I just like to try and get in Heather's (any HW really) head every now and then, roam around, see how it feels. Will I met any of her prison friends? Spend the day on P. Diddy's yacht? Who knows what adventures I'll have?

[Trooper York]

What are they thinking?

 

 

"I can't believe that bitch Heather is still talking. What's up with that?"

"How does this fit into my international branding. I know. I can market it....errr.....St Trope......yachts...luxury....where are my panties?"

"I wonder if Bethenny wants that California roll. I bet I can snatch it right off her plate. Speaking of snatches. I wonder if Sonja would let me eat it off her knockers. What? Oh yeah. Happy Birthday Baby!"

[Jel]

I don't disagree. I just like to try and get in Heather's (any HW really) head every now and then, roam around, see how it feels. Will I met any of her prison friends? Spend the day on P. Diddy's yacht? Who knows what adventures I'll have?

FozzyBear, I admire your open mind and your adventurous spirit. ;)

[motorcitymom65]

You can edit facial gestures, maybe even talking heads filmed after the fact to clarify an intention, what editing can't do is put words in a persons mouth or actions that are done in sequence with another cast members

Heather's worst moments are those when she is being confrontational and passive aggressive, Bravo didn't edited that or made them up, Heather indeed acted like a crazed out of control and belligerent asshole.

 

The problem of course is that we have zero idea what the sequence of events/words/actions ever are. One of my favorite things to do in these scenes is to watch the table scape. Watch a person talking with an empty wine glass in front of them, move to another person for a reaction shot, then back to the person talking and suddenly they have a full wine glass. Or watch how their plates are empty, then 2 seconds later they have food on them.  On the BH show it is always fascinating to watch how Kyle's hair often changes. In one scene it is parted in the middle, then what we think is almost immediately after, part of it is up in a clip. Last season at one dinner Kim Richards had her hair in a ponytail, then it was down around her shoulders, then back up in a ponytail all in what looked to be about 60 seconds. They film these scenes for literally hours and slice the conversations together. None of us even really understand what the conversation at the table was about. It was strange and edited in a way that even those of us who watched it with Closed Captioning aren't completely certain what was being said or who exactly it was all being said too. Having said that, I don't think Heather looked good in that scene at all. 

 

That is not really an excuse. Everyone is in the same boat, but it is becoming much more contrived over the last 2 years on all these shows. The formula over the last few years has become more about a specific story. Back in the day these things were much more organic. Girls would have a good day, then a bad day. There wasn't the necessity to paint one in a specific light to tell a story. The thing that bothers me is when they take a specific HW and edit her in a way that all we see is whatever behavior they want to project. Heather has always been bossy. This is not new. She has always been certain about what she wants and what she thinks is right or wrong. Many people disliked her for this. Many other people (me) were fine with this behavior because we were shown so much other good stuff that we thought far outweighed the other stuff. Kind of like people in real life. We get that no one is perfect, everyone has something that folks probably don't like about them, but if the other stuff is what is important to you, you let negative stuff go. This season, we are seeing nothing else with Heather. I cannot remember any other HW on any show (save for Lu last year, but then this was why she was demoted) who had seemingly zero stuff from her actual life included in the show. Nothing about her kids, Jon (although we see him, we don't know what is going on with him/them), or her business.  Maybe I have missed something, but I can think of nothing, save for I guess her Nanny is gone. Even Kristen got a segment about her blog. I don't believe for one second that this is because she filmed nothing. After the big deal they made about Lu last year, she wouldn't be on if she was giving them nothing. We aren't getting any type of balanced view of Heather at all, which makes it look like she has nothing going on in her life except to plot ways to bring down Beth, who apparently inspires overwhelming jealousy. 

 

We have heard all about Beth's motivations. Why she is a bitch and sometimes absent. They have shown her in an unfavorable light on several occasions, but balanced it out by letting her (and others) explain her behavior. We get none of this about Heather. In every scene there seems to be a determination to only showcase and highlight the negative with Heather, and since we are not stupid and watched the show for the last couple of years, we know there is quite a lot of good stuff there. Like Beth's boyfriend, showing anything positive about Heather wouldn't tell the story that apparently we need to be told. 

Edited June 6, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[SFoster21]

I don't disagree. I just like to try and get in Heather's (any HW really) head every now and then, roam around, see how it feels. Will I met any of her prison friends? Spend the day on P. Diddy's yacht? Who knows what adventures I'll have?

Put a string on the door handle or leave a trail of breadcrumbs so you can find your way out, ok?

Cause I'm not leading any rescue missions.

[Jel]

Great catch on the table scapes and ever-changing hairdos, motorcitymom65! I am going to start watching for that, too.

 

One thing your post put me in mind of, (and this is just in general in the forum, not directed at you personally) is that it really seems that Heather, no matter what she does, up to and including actually screaming obscenities in people's faces (just so far over the top and miles beyond anything even remotely acceptable in the world I live in) is given a pass because of shitty, unfair editing or a lousy day or her awesome motherfuckin' street cred or how great she is for not playing the "sick kid card" etc. Is there no line anywhere with this woman?  This has got to be one of the most loyal and devoted fan bases I have ever seen. Heather should really consider herself lucky.

[film noire]

Why are some now trying to peg what Carole did on Heather?

 

 

"Which one of these lucky ladies is going to take home the greasy prize?” said Heather in the line of the night. As

if it was ever in doubt! A few hours later Heather walked in on Tomas unloading baguettes into Sonja’s back

wagon.”

http://www.ew.com/recap/real-housewives-new-york-city-st-barts-2

"Sonja, all but admitting that Heather was right about her butt sex with Tomas, says no

one pushes her face in the ground, EXCEPT Tomas when she's doing him in the back of the

garden.”

http://www.realitytea.com/2012/09/11/real-housewives-of-new-york-recap-the-beasts-of-st-barths/

 

"Heather Thomson confirmed Morgan's extracurricular activity and revealed to the camera that she had

walked in on Tomas and Sonja later on in the evening. "Suddenly all those bruises make a lot of sense," Thomson

joked.

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZEIK0r_YqHgJ:www.enstarz.com/articles/6174/20120904/real-housewives-of-new-york-sonja-morgan-hooks-up-with-luann-de-lesseps-alleged-lover-tomas-in-st-barths.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The woman is a nasty, gossipy sexual buttinsky (pun intended!)

 

Will I met any of her prison friends? Spend the day on P. Diddy's yacht? Who knows what adventures I'll have?

LOL

Edited June 6, 2015 by film noire

[lunastartron]

Film noire, Heather wasn't making a dig about someone else's aesthetic appearance by calling Thomas "greasy." She was paying him a compliment by suggesting he's as appetizing as piece of New York pizza and saying he looks good enough to eat! Also of note with respect to her heartfelt concern for Jacques and his dignity: her valiant, selfless defense of his honor against LuAnn on multiple occasions, thus ensuring that PirateGate would be perpetuated on air time and again.

[zoeysmom]

We really don't know if Heather said more to Ramona's date. It could have been non climatic since the info was actually old news at the time (or so someone posted up thread). We didn't see the whole dinner and I've read that these dinners can last for hours with production. One of my pet peeves is when they supposedly show a HW's reaction to something and the actual footage has nothing to do with the case at hand. They do it ALL.THE.TIME!

So now we are back to last season's who has, is or will sleep with Harry? Or the season before who slept with the pirate? Now it is Carole screwing, Nicole's ex-boyfriend who she still vacations/works with out of the country and who slept with Mario's side piece? Now Brandi is claiming Bethenny "dated" Kristen's husband Josh. Apparently, once Bethenny got rich she stopped giving "blowies", so no one cares who Bethenny dates. She gave us the disclaimer that what she heard at 5 years old put her off sex forever except the 25 years she did sports f*king to try and land a man. Can we have a new storyline, pretty please Bravo?

We get it there are very few available men in NY and they recycle or f&ck John.

Edited June 6, 2015 by zoeysmom

[LotusFlower]

One thing your post put me in mind of, (and this is just in general in the forum, not directed at you personally) is that it really seems that Heather, no matter what she does, up to and including actually screaming obscenities in people's faces (just so far over the top and miles beyond anything even remotely acceptable in the world I live in) is given a pass because of shitty, unfair editing or a lousy day or her awesome motherfuckin' street cred or how great she is for not playing the "sick kid card" etc. Is there no line anywhere with this woman?  This has got to be one of the most loyal and devoted fan bases I have ever seen. Heather should really consider herself lucky.

I'm a Heather fan, but I'm not sure I understand your question. What are her loyal fans giving her a pass on? Being bossy? Saying motherfucker?

[lunastartron]

. . . Apologies in advance- writing on a handheld and can neither quote nor structure post into separate paragraphs. But the general direction/evolution of the defense of Heather in this thread reminds me of that vis-a-vis her Hamptons eruption in her own thread, in which the initial premises seemed to be that 1) Heather drunkenly screaming and cursing at guests in another person's home was commendable 2) because LuAnn didn't care or know Amanda 3) and because Amanda threatened to "deck" Heather 4) and Heather's behavior toward her husband was aggressive in neither content nor delivery. This discounted that 2) LuAnn tried to steer everyone toward diplomacy and desist with the fighting on multiple occasions and had joked around with Amanda at the cabaret (and, thus, presumably invited her) 3) Amanda tried to extricate herself from Heather by walking away and Heather pursued her through multiple rooms and on multiple occasions 4) Heather pointed her finger at Jonathon while saying "get out of this right now." Then the discourse shifted to how Heather, on the whole, is loud and opinionated but big-hearted. That may very well be true, but they are discrete questions, in my opinion. It's possible that Heather can be loving to her friends and family and hateful to her co-workers, condescending in certain instances and helpful and benevolent in others. That has nothing to do with her conduct in specific instances. I'm sure if Brandi Glanville and Kim Richards enjoyed the benefit of ample footage showcasing them cooing over their children that the response to their behavior would be more tempered and their portrayal more well-rounded. Doesn't make certain conflicts they undertook defensible. I'm not sure what exactly Heather is blaming on editing. Sure, there are very obvious instances of manipulation in that respect like the cut of her sneering when Bethenny appeared or the mid-conversation pickup of her custody dialogue with Bethenny. There's also the seemingly uncut audio of her "nanny" dismissal and the incontrovertible fact that she got up and grabbed Bethenny after Bethenny had told her to the point of crying in frustration to desist and her saying things like "I can tell you what I want to fucking tell you!" (okay, cool, then why can't Bethenny tell you that she wants you to stop?).

[bagger]

Oh absolutely! I've said time and again that I eye roll the bad edit defense. You're a grown woman who has been on multiple seasons of a reality to show. At the very least learn how to do this better and get a better edit then. Heather being more or less well intended, but too self involved to notice any reaction until someone is literally screaming at her is just my take. I'm more than willing to entertain a Heather is a crazy bitch scenario too.

Thank you! I don't believe in the bad edit either especially not after this season of the RHOBH. I could remember certain things happening in the first two season of Beverly Hills but I think just from reading things on the boards and so I went back to watch the 1st season well to be honest I've now binge watched the first three seasons and I'm on season 4 and really looking back and comparing season one to the most recent season their behavior hasn't changed. I think if anything the only thing they do is slightly modify their behavior based on how they saw themselves in the previous seasons. Prime example is Camille Grammer, she still looked down her nose at most of the ladies, held herself apart she just learned not to be so vocal. Kim Richards was just as nasty season 1 as she was this past season.

 

Heather isn't getting a bad edit, she just didn't learn from previous seasons and she's more over the top. Whether it's because BF is on this season or not I'm not sure but she's no better or worse than she's ever been. I like both her and BF but Heather does seem to be driven nuts by Bethanny's apathy at befriending her.

[bosawks]

I'm a Heather fan, but I'm not sure I understand your question. What are her loyal fans giving her a pass on? Being bossy? Saying motherfucker?

If being a Heather fan gets me a pass on saying motherfucker, I'm becoming a motherfucking Heather fan ASA motherfucking P!

[ladle]

I view the friction between Bethenny and some of the other ladies in terms of workplace conflict.  Kristin wonders why *she* has to show up to contractually-obligated work events, while Bethenny is repeatedly excused.  Heather tries to interact with Bethenny using moves from the trusty Real Housewives playbook.  Play #47: Tell one HW that another HW feels she has been slighted by you in order to incite drama.  Play #64: After an altercation with another cast member, pull her aside while the camera zooms in as you hash it out one on one.  Not only does Bethenny not engage in these interactions, but she makes Heather out to be a dick for even trying.  And Heather's all "*confused puppydog face* I don't know what to do with this.  I'm just trying to do my job!"  And they both suck because on the one hand, Bethenny, you're on the show, you know what it is now (and what it was, even, to an extent while you were on it the first time) so don't act like you're confused by the manufactured drama and above it all.  And, Heather, you should have taken the hint the first few times this happened.  Take off your bossypants (and, while you're at it, that awful animal-print vest). 

 

I mean, I love this show, but I think they're all awful.  Except maybe Dorinda, who hasn't had the chance to be awful yet.  And Kristin, who is too boring to be awful.  The only thing remotely interesting about her is the question of why she's still on the show.

[Jel]

I'm a Heather fan, but I'm not sure I understand your question. What are her loyal fans giving her a pass on? Being bossy? Saying motherfucker?

I think there are many examples, throughout the RHNYC threads, of Heather's behavior that people have objected to, but for me, the example I gave was probably the most egregious.  

 

If people are genuinely cool with that, which I perceive as an act of overt hostility and aggression, (and not mere plucky bossiness) that's something I don't understand.  And the subtext, I guess, is that I can't believe people are really okay with a grown woman/mom/business woman behaving like that, and so I am interpreting it as  "giving her a pass".  But maybe I have a faulty premise in there, shrug.

 

Btw, I assume your questions about her use of "motherfucker" and her general bossiness were rhetorical? If not, that's a straw man because no one points to those things as being out of line.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Jel

[LotusFlower]

I think there are many examples, throughout the RHNYC threads, of Heather's behavior that people have objected to, but for me, the example I gave was probably the most egregious.

If people are genuinely cool with that, which I perceive as an act of overt hostility and aggression, (and not mere plucky bossiness) that's something I don't understand. And the subtext, I guess, is that I can't believe people are really okay with a grown woman/mom/business woman behaving like that, and so I am interpreting it as "giving her a pass". But maybe I have a faulty premise in there, shrug.

I guess I'm still confused because you cite Heather "screaming obscenities at people's faces" as the most egregious example, yet I've never seen her do this, which is different than getting angry and using the word "fuck," which I have heard her do, and frankly, is fucking okay in my book. Different sensibilities, I guess.

But this question still doesn't make sense to me because of who we're talking about. if you posed the question re: Kim Richards, that makes sense, as she has zero redeeming qualities, and I mean zero. I'm mystified how anyone could defend her. But Heather?

Edited June 7, 2015 by LotusFlower

[LotusFlower]

If being a Heather fan gets me a pass on saying motherfucker, I'm becoming a motherfucking Heather fan ASA motherfucking P!

Kind of a moot point for me, cuz I've been a fan of bosawks, that motherfucker, since she renamed the Ballad of Tre and Joe thread after a Johnny Cash song.

(Ok, badly written. But it's been a long motherfucking week.)

[walnutqueen]

If being a Heather fan gets me a pass on saying motherfucker, I'm becoming a motherfucking Heather fan ASA motherfucking P!

 

I'd Holla at you for that, bosawks, except that would make me seem like some motherfucking douchebag.

[lunastartron]

"Don't tell me anything! Don't tell me fuckin' nuthin', motherfucker!" does not constitute obscenities (and, for what it's worth, "fuck" is an obscenity/expletive by any objective definition)? "Because I'm pretty sure Heather screamed all of that at Aviva (who, at the time was literally saying nothing and not screaming back - and who wasn't even directly addressing Heather when she made the toast to which Heather took umbrage). "Get the fuck out of here! LuAnn, you gotta get this bitch out of here!" And, though it was not yelled, I would say that directing "fuck" at someone is definitely aggressive: "I can tell you whatever the fuck I want to tell you." All of which is further ironic because Heather says you should never call people names (i guess "motherfucker" doesn't count). Oh, also, I forgot: "fucking bitch!" was directed at Sonja in some capacity, whether it was said to her face or to her back. Not an obscenity I guess? Maybe "bitch" is a compliment in the same way that "Anna Nicole" is?

[Jel]

Lunastartron and the lunastartronic memory to the rescue! Thank you.

 

No one gives a fuck about Heather's potty mouth, least of all me. It's how she couples it with her patented brand of hostility and aggression that makes it like, uncool.

 

There's practically an example of this once a week.

[ryebread]

Lunastartron and the lunastartronic memory to the rescue! Thank you.

 

No one gives a fuck about Heather's potty mouth, least of all me. It's how she couples it with her patented brand of hostility and aggression that makes it like, uncool.

 

There's practically an example of this once a week.

 

This.  If Heather were a man, her behavior would be considered stalkerish and abusive.

[film noire]

This.  If Heather were a man, her behavior would be considered stalkerish and abusive.

 

Be careful what you say, ryebread -- Heather is gonna get out her scully and show a bitch who the real Papi is around here!

[seasick]

This may be crazy, but I could likely be prompted to call someone a motherfucker (gosh..yeah I'm sure I have!)  But as a guest in someone's home, to be rude, nasty and instigating to my hostess's other guests?  That is crossing the line in my book!  My mother would have smacked me  silly with the book I was balancing on my head!

[shoegal]

What the fuck was Luanne wearing? Why aren't we talking about that!?!?!

THANK YOU!!!! I am late to the game as I was only able to watch the show yesterday (damn you Bravo app that doesn't work outside the U.S.!!) so I'm not going to get into B v H, but damn, I have to talk about what the fuck LuAnn was wearing!!

That outfit at the Red Lion Inn??? Did she think they said dinner at the OK Corale? She looked like Annie Get Your Gun, I expect she had a pistol and playing cards tucked into a garder under her pants. She finally surpassed that horrible downtown kimono getup she sported in Season 1.

The 40's glam look at dinner was nice enough from the waist up, but I believe I saw in one shot that it was a midi length flared dress that she paired with BOOTS!! It could have been lovely as a floor length gown, but WTF was that??? No, just no.

LuAnn is a stunning woman with a great body, but I think she has a lame sense of style. She's rarely gets the whole look right, she's almost always off with something. She will wear a beautiful dress and then throw a Sherpa coat over it. Or a lovely outfit and add a dinner plate as a necklace...and the denim, the terrible denim. SMH

And Ramona is looking rough.

Edited June 7, 2015 by shoegal