One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[elang4]

26 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But that's what we were SHOWN. We weren't shown the night being about her having to console Rory. We can infer whatever we want about how the night went. But all we saw was the blow up with the Haydens, the balcony sex, and Lorelai not realizing until the next morning that she ditched Luke. She could have used the fight as her excuse to leave early. Get away from all that, go blow off steam, have a beer, and paint with Luke. Instead she chose to sneak onto the balcony and blow off steam that way. 

I agree. If it had shown her spending most of the night consoling and reassuring Rory, I'm pretty sure Luke would have understood. However, she implied to him it was because of Chris that she forgot about him. She was the one who persuaded Luke to paint in the first case so if I were Luke, I'd be annoyed too. I think it was the case that she didn't even call him which I think was wrong. If she had called him and apologised and said she wouldn't be able to make it, I'm sure he would have been fine. But when she's with Chris, she forgets about everyone.

Edited September 1, 2017 by elang4

[Goldmoon]

I have just spent about four weeks watching GG for the first time.  I watched AYITL while I was watching S4 so I will have to watch it again.  I had never seen Logan or the LDB when I saw the mini-series.  My UO today is that I really liked S7.  It was much better than S6 if only because the new writers toned down Lorelai's Tourettes.

I was surprised that Rory was portrayed as a loser in the end.  She didn't take a job  she could have had because she thought she would be one of the four winners of an internship at the NYT, and ten years later we know she wishes she would have married Logan but she let that ship sail.  I thought Logan walked away at the end pretty easily, even if she didn't feel the time was right. 

[AsYouWish]

Goldmoon, welcome! Which characters and relationships did you like most and least? I love hearing people's first impressions! 

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

It was much better than S6 if only because the new writers toned down Lorelai's Tourettes.

I just spit out my iced tea.

[Goldmoon]

AsYouWish, I will be back later with more details on my impressions, but I was a Luke/Lorelai shipper.  It was mostly because of Luke.  Two of the most romantic scenes in the series were the Waltz at the wedding and the Dolly-song at karaoke night.  Both times, SP's expression said LOVE in caps.  Lorelai was so selfish, though, I rather think she isn't good enough for him.  Luke spent too much time acting like a doormat to please her. 

I hated Jess and didn't like Logan.  Dean was so ready to nest when he was in high school that he and Rory weren't on the same page.  Since I don't really like any of the three for Rory, I might have to go with the Wookie.  Inconceivable! Of course, I do not think that word means what you think it means (/PB).

[FictionLover]

12 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

AsYouWish, I will be back later with more details on my impressions, but I was a Luke/Lorelai shipper.  It was mostly because of Luke.  Two of the most romantic scenes in the series were the Waltz at the wedding and the Dolly-song at karaoke night.  Both times, SP's expression said LOVE in caps.  Lorelai was so selfish, though, I rather think she isn't good enough for him.  Luke spent too much time acting like a doormat to please her. 

 

But did you like the later part of season 6 Luke? He let me down big time. 

[Kohola3]

36 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

He let me down big time. 

Well, the writers let us down big time!

[FictionLover]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Well, the writers let us down big time!

Well, of course but the language here seems to mostly speak of the characters as real. We all know ASP decided to assassinate one of the most beloved characters to negotiate her contact. So glad I wasn't watching this during it's original run and was able to binge through the awfulness!  

[Goldmoon]

Quote

assassinate one of the most beloved characters

Which one?  Luke, Lorelai and Rory all took hits!

[FictionLover]

1 hour ago, Goldmoon said:

Which one?  Luke, Lorelai and Rory all took hits!

 I was referring to Luke but you are correct, they all did.

[Bringonthedrama]

17 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

Which one?  Luke, Lorelai and Rory all took hits!

True. In the desire to make Rory not-so-perfect and to show her 'torn' between her Stars Hollow life and the high-society life her mother rejected, the writers went waaaay overboard. it is ironic to watch earlier seasons after seeing the Rory who graduated Yale and the Rory of the revival. One example is Rory getting angry at Paris for cheating on good-guy Jamie and then blowing him off, when Paris gets involved with the old professor friend of Richard's (because we know Rory goes on to sleep with married Dean, and then engaged Logan).  Another example is h.s. Rory telling Paris (moments before they all get busted) that the Puffs breaking into the Headmaster's office at Chilton  is NOT okay (because we know Rory goes on to to decide to STEAL A BOAT, with Logan along for the ride).  And during the Mother-Daughter weekend with Emily, Lorelai tells Emily that Rory is far too moral to *steal a robe*. LOL.   There were ways to make Rory an imperfect character, without fundamentally changing who she was as a kid.  Logan was more of a symptom of a bigger problem, than the problem itself - though Lorelai tried to place the blame at his feet.

[Anela]

23 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

True. In the desire to make Rory not-so-perfect and to show her 'torn' between her Stars Hollow life and the high-society life her mother rejected, the writers went waaaay overboard. it is ironic to watch earlier seasons after seeing the Rory who graduated Yale and the Rory of the revival. One example is Rory getting angry at Paris for cheating on good-guy Jamie and then blowing him off, when Paris gets involved with the old professor friend of Richard's (because we know Rory goes on to sleep with married Dean, and then engaged Logan).  Another example is h.s. Rory telling Paris (moments before they all get busted) that the Puffs breaking into the Headmaster's office at Chilton  is NOT okay (because we know Rory goes on to to decide to STEAL A BOAT, with Logan along for the ride).  And during the Mother-Daughter weekend with Emily, Lorelai tells Emily that Rory is far too moral to *steal a robe*. LOL.   There were ways to make Rory an imperfect character, without fundamentally changing who she was as a kid.  Logan was more of a symptom of a bigger problem, than the problem itself - though Lorelai tried to place the blame at his feet.

That's one thing that (annoyingly) stands out when re-watching, and not leaving  a certain amount of time between episodes. I haven't watched it for a month or two, because I needed time to watch new things. Even though I was a lot like the Rory in the first few years of the show, it's annoying to hear people go on about how perfect she is. "That isn't Rory." "Rory would never do that." Only for her to go on to do worse things later on.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Anela

[Bringonthedrama]

4 hours ago, Anela said:

it's annoying to hear people go on about how perfect she is. "That isn't Rory." "Rory would never do that." Only for her to go on to do worse things later on.

I think 90% of that came from Lorelai?  She was the one with lines like "you're the greatest kid in the world," "the perfect angel granddaughter," "Rory would never steal" (the robe conversation with Emily) and "Rory doesn't lie" (line to Dean, while they stood outside Luke's watching Rory talking to Jess).  I remember Richard and Emily just generally bragging to people about how smart Rory was.   Lorelai needed to believe she raised a flawless kid, as a sort of middle finger to her parents that running away as a teenager with a baby was not a mistake. 

If the writers wanted to make Rory a basically decent person who made serious mistakes but wasn't self-centered like Lorelai, they could have done so.  I could see a teenage Lorelai stealing a boat that belonged to her parents' friends, in an angry tantrum meant to embarrass her parents. For Rory, it was absurd. I would find it far more realistic for her desperate reaction to "you don't got it" to be stealing someone else's extensive research after working with them briefly, to write an amazing story and "prove Mitchum wrong" ... or outright plagiarize someone's writing to prove to Mitchum and the rest of the world that she wasn't an academic failure and that she's got what it takes. Then she would have gotten caught, and had a believable downward spiral.

On a  related note (but pre-Huntzbergers), I could buy Rory kissing Dean and possibly doing more than that with him when he was comforting her during her "I'm failing, I'm failing" crying breakdown re: Yale when she was unable to reach Lorelai.  For her to have sex with Dean in her childhood bedroom - when she was only there to get CDs! - because he  showed up at her house, went in for a kiss and told her "I can't make her [Lindsey] happy" was also absurd. And then again at Ms. Patty's studio, when she knew Dean and Lindsey were still together.  I found it an especially WTF situation because she was so upset with Christopher for walking away from them for Sheree when he "promised" they were going to be a family.   Dean and Lindsey also made promises to each other when they said their vows on their wedding day.  She already understood the concept of marriage and promises, because she was a young bridesmaid for Sookie and Jackson's wedding day. 

Lazy, inconsistent writing (or writing to fit a pre-conceived narrative, like Rory is just a better educated mini-Lorelai) irritates me, what can I say. LOL.

[Bringonthedrama]

On 8/15/2017 at 3:15 PM, Frelling Tralk said:

It is interesting that Emily and Richard were surprisingly supportive in spite of everything, Emily immediately shoots down Christopher's parents wanting to pressure Lorelai into an abortion to make the problem go away

Emily was definitely upset about the pregnancy, but was outraged at how the Haydens basically implied that Lorelai seduced their innocent son and she should get the procedure to "fix" this problem so as to not derail his promising young future.  It seemed like they saw Lorelai as an obstacle in their son's life, not an actual person.  Emily rightly called them out on it.  Later we as the audience saw that the Haydens had no use for teenage Rory.  The Gilmores didn't have an issue with Christopher, it was their age. I think if Lorelai had been dating Chris at 26 and gotten pregnant, they would have probably pushed for a marriage but not tried to demand it like Richard did when they were kids ... whereas the Haydens didn't ever want Christopher with Lorelai because  in their delusional minds about their kid, her behavior/reputation was "beneath" him. The Huntzbergers attitude toward "not raised that way" Rory reminded me of the Haydens. 

[readster]

On 9/4/2017 at 8:25 PM, Bringonthedrama said:

Emily was definitely upset about the pregnancy, but was outraged at how the Haydens basically implied that Lorelai seduced their innocent son and she should get the procedure to "fix" this problem so as to not derail his promising young future.  It seemed like they saw Lorelai as an obstacle in their son's life, not an actual person.  Emily rightly called them out on it.  Later we as the audience saw that the Haydens had no use for teenage Rory.  The Gilmores didn't have an issue with Christopher, it was their age. I think if Lorelai had been dating Chris at 26 and gotten pregnant, they would have probably pushed for a marriage but not tried to demand it like Richard did when they were kids ... whereas the Haydens didn't ever want Christopher with Lorelai because  in their delusional minds about their kid, her behavior/reputation was "beneath" him. The Huntzbergers attitude toward "not raised that way" Rory reminded me of the Haydens. 

That's what I think they were going with the Huntzbergers, that they were the Haydens in another sense. However, when I look at the past episodes between the Haydens and the Gilmores in the early years. It seemed to me that they were find with Christopher because: "hey, he comes from a rich and long defined family." However, that's where they were always blinded by. I can tell you, they never acted like either family liked each other. Strobe and Francine came off as entitled assholes, where their son could do no run even if he had committed murder (why Chris had such that outlook on life) because no one ever blamed him for anything, but Rory. Then flash forward 20 years later when Mitchum and that ditz he was married too truth about why they thought that on Rory and Richard and Emily pretty much were ready to kill them. Of course, to the Haydens it would have been: "Oh, you are absolutely corrected. Rory and Lorelai are trash, they ruined out poor son's life." That was something that always drove me insane about AS-P's writing, she create this conflict and never, ever was anyone called on it. If they were, that was it. Sorry, even the stupid one day of filming scene between Chris and Rory in the Revival doesn't resolve anything about Chris's piss poor behavior and choices after 30 years. If it did anything, showed just how much Christopher should have been kicked to the curb at 17 years ago. He was like his parents in the end, it was ALWAYS someone else's fault, when all the choices were his.

[ALittleShelfish]

I have never been on board TeamLogan, and couldn't give any reason other than he's a smarmy, entitled, rich kid, somethingoranother.  Watching a few epis here and there on FreeForm and UP, I get angry when I realize now that he takes every opportunity he can to gaslight (overused word lately, I know) Rory.  When Rory stands up to him to say "Hey, you did this thing, and this thing made me upset with you. I don't like when you do those things!" He just stands there with his smarmy smuggy grin and starts with "Wait, slow down.  Did this thing physically hurt you? Did I specifically tell you I wouldn't do this specific thing? No? Then what's the big deal? You're getting all bent out of shape for nothing..." kinds of comebacks, and Rory loses all strength and backbone and turns into this timid and suddenly self-doubting person who can barely say "no" and barely look at him... it just infuriates me. WAIT FOUR SECONDS AGO, YOU WERE READY TO THROW DOWN, RORY.   WTF JUST HAPPENED. Why do I let fictional television people infuriate me like this? 

A friend of mine is very on board with the "Logan is the greatest! He brings out the best in Rory and makes her a better person!" WAIT NO THIS CAN'T BE TRUE.  Does anyone actually like this random, out of character, society small talker we see organizing DAR events? That's the fakiest faking I've ever seen a character do for so long and then suddenly drop that faking when she goes back to Lorelai she's pre-DAR Rory again and ugh I can't explain how College Rory bugs me.  

That said, I'd LOVED to have seen a Rory/Marty storyline. Not a forever and ever amen storyline, but something other than the Lucy and Whatshername bit ("Oh em gee, BOYFRIEND!"). 

[Katy M]

59 minutes ago, ALittleShelfish said:

A friend of mine is very on board with the "Logan is the greatest! He brings out the best in Rory and makes her a better person!" WAIT NO THIS CAN'T BE TRUE.  Does anyone actually like this random, out of character, society small talker we see organizing DAR events? That's the fakiest faking I've ever seen a character do for so long and then suddenly drop that faking when she goes back to Lorelai she's pre-DAR Rory again and ugh I can't explain how College Rory bugs me.  

I don't like Logan, but I saw nothing wrong with Rory organizing DAR events  She was actually quite good at it.    She should have started an event planning business.  Plus she had to be doing something on her Yale break.

[shron17]

14 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

I have never been on board TeamLogan, and couldn't give any reason other than he's a smarmy, entitled, rich kid, somethingoranother.  Watching a few epis here and there on FreeForm and UP, I get angry when I realize now that he takes every opportunity he can to gaslight (overused word lately, I know) Rory.  When Rory stands up to him to say "Hey, you did this thing, and this thing made me upset with you. I don't like when you do those things!" He just stands there with his smarmy smuggy grin and starts with "Wait, slow down.  Did this thing physically hurt you? Did I specifically tell you I wouldn't do this specific thing? No? Then what's the big deal? You're getting all bent out of shape for nothing..." kinds of comebacks, and Rory loses all strength and backbone and turns into this timid and suddenly self-doubting person who can barely say "no" and barely look at him... it just infuriates me.

I agree with this so much.  It always felt to me like Logan was trying to manipulate/control Rory by keeping her off balance.  The only time I liked Rory with Logan was when she went to him with her "I'm a girlfriend" speech.  But Rory stuck to that for all of 2 minutes before she let Logan convince her she was saying that so he would agree to give up his other girls.  I always thought she should have taken quite a bit longer to be convinced that this guy who never had exclusive relationships was all of a sudden willing to go there with her.

[Guest]

I think Logan was very supportive of Rory, far more so than her other boyfriends (a low bar, admittedly).  He didn't try to force her to do things his way.  Whether or not she needed him to be supportive or could have used more of a kick-in-the-butt regarding not dropping out of school is debatable, but I think he supported her in his own way.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

I don't like Logan, but I saw nothing wrong with Rory organizing DAR events  She was actually quite good at it.    She should have started an event planning business.  Plus she had to be doing something on her Yale break.

Yeah, organizing an event clearly played to Rory's strengths.  I kind of rolled my eyes when Richard acted like it was the equivalent of finding Rory in a seedy highway rest stop exchanging sex for drugs (Next time...on a very special episode of Gilmore Girls...).  It was just like in the revival when Rory essentially dismissed the idea that she become a teacher as though it was an admission of failure.  It was kind of the tunnel vision everyone on the series had when it came to Rory.  It was as though she didn't follow a very specific path, the world has failed her.       

[AsYouWish]

It's partly why I'm one of maybe five people in the GG fandom who likes Christopher more than Logan, or more accurately dislikes Christopher less than I dislike Logan. Christopher seemed to lack the cunning to be manipulative or as deliberately and willfully self-interested as Logan. Like others pointed out, Christopher stumbles and lurches his way through life, dopey and passive and lazy. Weak people like that cause their fair share of pain and damage, but not usually intentionally, and I think the writers did a good job of showing that consistently with Christopher. There is something a lot more deliberate, calculating and cunning about Logan. He always knows exactly what he's doing and keeps doing it it anyway. It's hard to explain to or even to give many specific supporting examples, but that's how I see them. And again, most of Logan's "growth" comes in Season 7, when the original creator of the character was not around. Logan as ASP conceived him was just okay enough for some of us to vaguely understand why a lost and quietly defiant Rory might go for him at certain points of her life, but never someone to be truly trusted. Even the grand romantic gestures were more manipulative and self-interested, a bratty and entitled Logan determined to get back one of his favorite toys, than romantic to me.  

Maybe it's that permanent s**t-eating smirk. Maybe it makes him look more shifty, untrustworthy and sleazy than we were supposed to view him as. And to be honest I sometimes thought less of Rory for choosing to be with exactly the type of person she always (claimed to?) despise. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by AsYouWish

[shron17]

Yes, Logan did support Rory in his own way, it's just that his way meant he always kept the upper hand.  Possibly a personality trait he picked up from Mitchum, which is fine for those who want that kind of relationship.  It just never seemed right for Rory.  E.g. he didn't even tell her he had an offer out in SF until after he accepted it, picked out a ring for Rory and found a house he could tempt her with.  After saying in Hay Bale Maze that he would factor her into his career decisions.  The fact that she didn't have a job or a place to go didn't mean she wanted those decisions made for her without any input.    

4 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It was as though she didn't follow a very specific path, the world has failed her.  

Everyone expected Rory "to do great things."   Didn't Paris even say that?  Such a lot of pressure to put on someone.  For the grandparents, their disappointment in Lorelai magnified it even more.  Maybe for Lorelai too--sometimes it seemed as though Rory was meant to make up for her failings.  Although Lorelai was nearly always supportive of Rory, even in the revival.

[timimouse]

30 minutes ago, AsYouWish said:

It's partly why I'm one of maybe five people in the GG fandom who likes Christopher more than Logan, or more accurately dislikes Christopher less than I dislike Logan. Christopher seemed to lack the cunning to be manipulative or as deliberately and willfully self-interested as Logan. Like others pointed out, Christopher stumbles and lurches his way through life, dopey and passive and lazy. Weak people like that cause their fair share of pain and damage, but not usually intentionally, and I think the writers did a good job of showing that consistently with Christopher. There is something a lot more deliberate, calculating and cunning about Logan. He always knows exactly what he's doing and keeps doing it it anyway. It's hard to explain to or even to give many specific supporting examples, but that's how I see them. And again, most of Logan's "growth" comes in Season 7, when the original creator of the character was not around. Logan as ASP conceived him was just okay enough for some of us to vaguely understand why a lost and quietly defiant Rory might go for him at certain points of her life, but never someone to be truly trusted. Even the grand romantic gestures were more manipulative and self-interested, a bratty and entitled Logan determined to get back one of his favorite toys, than romantic to me.  

Maybe it's that permanent s**t-eating smirk. Maybe it makes him look more shifty, untrustworthy and sleazy than we were supposed to view him as. And to be honest I sometimes thought less of Rory for choosing to be with exactly the type of person she always (claimed to?) despise. 

Table for 6 please? Cuz I'm there with you. I disliked Christopher, I despised Logan. And I also disliked Rory for being with him, because he changed her, and not for the better. We all have that one that sends us a lil "crazy in love" but there comes a point we wake up and smell the coffee and go running. And I feel like season 1-2 Rory would've come to her senses after a while.

That being said, I understand why the Logan relationship was necessary. We needed to see that although Lorelai ran away from that world because she hated it*, Rory clearly didn't. That was one aspect of the story that I loved because it made Rory an individual and not just a clone of her mother, liking and doing everything Lorelai did. Yet, ironically, I think a lot of the time she spent with Logan, she compromised who she was to make him happy. For example, when she went to Emily and Richard asking for the loan for Yale, she insisted it be a loan that she repays. Yet, when she moved in with Logan, which I understand was a necessity at the time because of Paris, she never thought to even offer to pay rent? Contribute SOMETHING to his condo expenses. Even if he didn't need it, the character that we knew wouldn't just accept a free apartment so willingly. 

 

*Lorelai claimed to hate that world yet still seemed to want the perks of it when she needed it

[MatildaMoody]

For me, Logan was always Tristan 2.0, which is why I never got why Rory 1. fell so hard for him, and 2. allowed him to manipulate her so easily.

What I never truly understood was the writers' insistence on assassinating perfectly good characters like Dean and Marty to service some notion that Logan was the better guy. I could almost get the Dean thing. Rory was feeling disconnected from everything that she had just accepted as her life in Stars Hollow as she progressed through Yale. So, her wanting to go back to the first guy who truly liked her for who she was and who went out of his way to show that he was in awe of her constantly, made plenty of sense. What didn't actually make sense was Dean. Sure, he was still in love with Rory (or thought he was) when he got married. But, it made no sense for him to get married in the first place. Remember, he had started considering college and was planning to go to a local community college and further his education — because Rory inspired him to do so. Suddenly, he is getting married right out of high school? And then, the guy who believed the "Donna Reed" lifestyle had plenty to offer was willing to cheat on his wife?

And then we have Marty, a guy who was mature enough to recognize that he couldn't continue to hang around as friends with someone he had feelings for without it causing more problems, is suddenly pretending he doesn't know Rory and trying to flirt with her at his girlfriend's party? What the hell, writers?

[clack]

19 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

 Watching a few epis here and there on FreeForm and UP, I get angry when I realize now that he takes every opportunity he can to gaslight (overused word lately, I know) Rory.  When Rory stands up to him to say "Hey, you did this thing, and this thing made me upset with you. I don't like when you do those things!" He just stands there with his smarmy smuggy grin and starts with "Wait, slow down.  Did this thing physically hurt you? Did I specifically tell you I wouldn't do this specific thing? No? Then what's the big deal? You're getting all bent out of shape for nothing..." kinds of comebacks, and Rory loses all strength and backbone and turns into this timid and suddenly self-doubting person who can barely say "no" and barely look at him... it just infuriates me. WAIT FOUR SECONDS AGO, YOU WERE READY TO THROW DOWN, RORY.   WTF JUST HAPPENED. Why do I let fictional television people infuriate me like this? 

 

That said, I'd LOVED to have seen a Rory/Marty storyline. Not a forever and ever amen storyline, but something other than the Lucy and Whatshername bit ("Oh em gee, BOYFRIEND!"). 

The "gaslighting" or whatever you want to call it, started right from the their beginning meeting. Rory was angry at Logan for treating Marty, her friend,  like a servant, and Logan responded with some bit of sophistry that argued that Marty, who had bartended Logan's party, was indeed a servant, because Marty had served drinks.  And Rory, whose mother had worked as a maid, bought Logan's argument! Enough, anyway, to be impressed by Logan's debating skills.

I get the impression that a potential Marty/Rory storyline had been set up, but for whatever reason AS-P decided to go down a different path.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, clack said:

The "gaslighting" or whatever you want to call it, started right from the their beginning meeting. Rory was angry at Logan for treating Marty, her friend,  like a servant, and Logan responded with some bit of sophistry that argued that Marty, who had bartended Logan's party, was indeed a servant, because Marty had served drinks.  And Rory, whose mother had worked as a maid, bought Logan's argument! Enough, anyway, to be impressed by Logan's debating skills.

I get the impression that a potential Marty/Rory storyline had been set up, but for whatever reason AS-P decided to go down a different path.

Well, technically, Logan is right.  He was a servant.    I only vaguely remember this epi.  I didn't really pay attention the college years that closely, so I don't remember exactly what he did wrong.  But, if he was rude, Rory should have made her argument that you shouldn't treat anyone rudely or beneath you.  If he were merely being formal and treating him as an employee, Rory could have countered that he is also my friend. To which Tristan could have replied that he wasn't his friend, and he prefers to not get to chummy with employees.

[AsYouWish]

Quote

To which Tristan could have replied that he wasn't his friend, and he prefers to not get to chummy with employees.

I love that you accidentally typed Tristan instead of Logan! Perfectly understandable slip given their unpleasant similarities :)

But I think I actually liked Tristan's role on the show better than Logan's, which I would guess is unpopular given what a jerk Tristan was. Around Tristan, Rory was sharp and vibrant, more assertive than usual instead of less, and while she seemed to see some sort of potential in him, she didn't tolerate and enable his crappy behavior. Around Logan, she was the exact opposite of everything I just wrote! 

Quote

Rory was angry at Logan for treating Marty, her friend,  like a servant, and Logan responded with some bit of sophistry that argued that Marty, who had bartended Logan's party, was indeed a servant, because Marty had served drinks.  And Rory, whose mother had worked as a maid, bought Logan's argument! Enough, anyway, to be impressed by Logan's debating skills.

Yes! A lot of his worst traits were on display the very first episode we saw him. Smirking, dismissive of everyone who he deems unworthy, impossibly condescending, and then the ostenibly playful banter with Rory about his treatment of Marty that really just served to illustrate what a smug and self-superior jerk he is. And don't forget his arm casually slung around Random Female #968 when we first see him*, just in case we didn't get what a total 'stud' he is, though of course we never saw him give any woman he was with even a shred of respect other than our very special Rory. It was hate at first sight for me.  

*One of many reasons I don't think this show deserves to be considered a champion of feminism like it's often credited for: Females like Shane and Crazy Carrie get subtly slut shamed, Lorelai happily exclaims she's "got the good kid" upon learing that Paris had sex with her boyfriend, Lane's first experience with sex is miserable and she's saddled with an unexpected and at the time unwanted pregnancy, but Logan's established history of sleeping with half the females on the eastern seaboard somehow makes him more of the freewheeling, life loving and uninhibted golden boy who's supposed to "help Rory come out of her shell."  

Quote

What I never truly understood was the writers' insistence on assassinating perfectly good characters like Dean and Marty to service some notion that Logan was the better guy. 

It's so frustrating. The show seemed to send the message that seemingly nice guys can never REALLY be nice, so girls should feel better about choosing the jerk instead. Even Luke had to be a surly and angry jerk way too much of the time, because we can't have a guy who's actually happy and pleasant turn out to be a worthy partner, can we? ;) 

[clack]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Well, technically, Logan is right.  He was a servant.    I only vaguely remember this epi.  I didn't really pay attention the college years that closely, so I don't remember exactly what he did wrong.  But, if he was rude, Rory should have made her argument that you shouldn't treat anyone rudely or beneath you.  If he were merely being formal and treating him as an employee, Rory could have countered that he is also my friend. To which Tristan could have replied that he wasn't his friend, and he prefers to not get to chummy with employees.

Going by that logic, Rory, who had a job swiping IDs at the cafeteria, was also a servant. Indeed anyone with a service job would count as a servant. Are the Yale librarians also servants?

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, clack said:

Going by that logic, Rory, who had a job swiping IDs at the cafeteria, was also a servant. Indeed anyone with a service job would count as a servant. Are the Yale librarians also servants?

Well, again, I don't remember how he treated him and why Rory told him he was treating him like a servant.  If he was being rude to him (beyond just not socializing) then that means that Rory thinks that it's OK to treat servants rudely, and quite frankly says a lot about her.  But, I wouldn't expect anyone that Rory didn't previously know to do any more than say thanks after she swiped and handed back their card and basically take no special notice of her.

[AsYouWish]

Quote

If he was being rude to him (beyond just not socializing) then that means that Rory thinks that it's OK to treat servants rudely, and quite frankly says a lot about her.  But, I wouldn't expect anyone that Rory didn't previously know to do any more than say thanks after she swiped and handed back their card and basically take no special notice of her.

The argument wasn't centered around how Logan treated Marty while Marty was working as his bartender. (And of course Logan and his pretentious douchebag friends HIRE a bartender for their casual college parties like they're throwing a damn 400-person gala when every normal college kid, even the very wealthy ones I knew, just made the damn drinks themselves, had guests serve themselves or whatever).  It was about how Logan and his obnoxious friends treated Marty when they encountered him and Rory outside their dorm building. Logan wasn't cruel at all - just condescending and punch-worthy, as per usual. 

Given how content Logan and Rory both seemed to be to let the elder Gilmores' maid take the fall for the trinket Logan stole, though, I wouldn't say either of them are going to win any awards for their treatment of "servants" in general :)

Also, did Rory even have that card swiping job for longer than a day? And didn't she talk on the phone the entire time and barely even bother swiping the cards? 

[tarotx]

Rory was showing dislike for Logan and since he didn't remember her, he asked why. And they go on this spark-filled debate. I have so much fun watching them go back and forth as they banter in 5.3. Logan didn't treat Marty like a servant. Just someone he hired before and wanted to hire again. 

Rory is a subdued person and has had a lot of strong personalities in her life. She has never really kept up with those stronger personalities. Her mom, Emily, Paris, Jess.... She has never really had to dig down deep and find out who she was. Rory and Logan have this kind of verbal pro - con way of making decisions. With Rory getting to make the final decision. "Your choice Ace". I always see them like the romances in 1940′s rom-coms. Being able to keep up with each other is part of the fun. Rory can keep up with banter but has trouble standing her ground when dealing with any strong personality. When Rory stands strong she gets Logan to do want she wants.

In s7 when Logan asked Rory to marry him he thought she was on the same page as him. They had that talk on the couch in Farewell my pet about Belonging & trust and In Hay bale maze, Rory said that in general, she would like to factor Logan in. So when Logan got the job he went to SF to interview for, he thought this was the perfect new start for both of them. He found a house to rent that was at a great Location for Rory to get to many places she could work and close this new job for himself. 

When Logan asked Rory to move in with him she was thinking about what that meant for them as a couple. It wasn't about paying rent (the bills were probably already paid for the next year anyway). It was about the next step to them in a committed relationship. 

As For Tristan and Logan, Tristan was mean to Rory like an "Elementary school kid" acting out against their crush. He picked out a nickname that wasn't just about Rory and it had a sexual element. Logan was playful and treated Rory like the unique girl he saw her as being. He was rich with daddy issues. But imo Tristan is half Jess-half Logan with a way less strong personality. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by tarotx

[Bringonthedrama]

8 hours ago, shron17 said:

Yes, Logan did support Rory in his own way, it's just that his way meant he always kept the upper hand.  

I think that's how Lorelai was too - until Rory told her she was dropping out of Yale.   Logan seemed like a Lorelai-Chris combo in personality (toxic), but with drive and intellect like Richard had starting in youth, but they lacked.  Lorelai liked to tap dance around ever being held accountable. She always had to keep the upper hand with Rory, esp. regarding how much time Rory spent with her grandparents. Some of that, though, was jealousy over Rory being the Gilmore "second chance" where Lorelai had failed to make them proud as a teenager.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

Also, did Rory even have that card swiping job for longer than a day? And didn't she talk on the phone the entire time and barely even bother swiping the cards? 

Yes, she was on the phone ignoring everyone and they ended up swiping their own cards.  I'm not sure why they needed a card swiper person in the first place.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Yes, she was on the phone ignoring everyone and they ended up swiping their own cards.  I'm not sure why they needed a card swiper person in the first place.

Normally, you would have a card swiper person there to assure that people are actually getting their cards swiped, and no one is entering the dining hall without proper ID.  Obviously with a Gilmore in charge who was focused on herself, everyone had to fend for themselves.   

[Guest]

Rory had strange attitudes about staff too.  Really, I think it's more that Rory had inconsistent writing about staff.  One episode she's chatting with the maid in another language; the next she can't be bothered to learn the maid's name.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Rory had strange attitudes about staff too.  Really, I think it's more that Rory had inconsistent writing about staff.  One episode she's chatting with the maid in another language; the next she can't be bothered to learn the maid's name.

If I were Emily's granddaughter, I don't know that I would bother to learn the maid's name either.  there's just going to be a new one next week :)

[AsYouWish]

I'm starting to rethink how staunchly I've defended Rory in the past. She showed signs of being awful not just in S6 and the revival but as early as Season 4. You could even start further back with her treatment of Dean in Seasons 2 and 3 and how she kissed Jess while still dating Dean, which turned out to be the beginning of a problematic pattern!

When it comes down to it, is Rory any less selfish and entitled than Lorelai? Does she actually make better, more considerate choices? At least Lorelai sometimes owns how crazy she is. Rory seems to take advantage, deliberately or maybe just subconsciously, of her image as the angel who can do no wrong. She may be less annoying on the surface than Lorelai (because who isn't), but she also has less spark and resilience, a much weaker work ethic unless she's allowed to do EXACTLY what she wants to do (Rory is weak in general, in many ways) and is arguably less honest with herself and others than Lorelai is. 

Is it possible that I loved Rory almost exclusively because she reads and seemed in high school to care almost as little about most types of socializing as I did? 

Is Lorelai actually the LESS flawed of the two of them?

I'm having a Gilmore Girls identity crisis :) You all should be flattered - it's the articulate insights here that prompted me to reevaluate many of my Gilmore Girls perspectives!  

[Bringonthedrama]

9 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

ith her treatment of Dean in Seasons 2 and 3 and how she kissed Jess while still dating Dean, which turned out to be the beginning of a problematic pattern!

 (Rory is weak in general, in many ways) and is arguably less honest with herself and others than Lorelai is. 

 

Is Lorelai actually the LESS flawed of the two of them?

 

Rory was a teenager who impulsively kissed a boy she had feelings for, while still in a relationship with another guy. She knew Dean was "so in love" with her, that her mom approved of Dean but not Jess, and the same for the rest of Stars Hollow.  She was in denial about falling out of love with Dean, and also didn't want to hurt him. I think spending the summer in Washington with Paris was definitely at least in part about refusing to face her feelings and make a difficult choice after an initial impulse.  All of that is a mistake a lot of girls that age could make.  Her mistakes with Dean and Logan in the years to come  are not so forgivable. 

Except for the AYITL revival, I don't think it's right to compare Rory and Lorelai in terms of honest, flaws, and such because Rory was a teen/young 20something while the audience met Lorelai in her 30s.  I don't think Lorelaid was more honest at all, the one exception was confessing to Luke that she'd spent the night with Christopher when they fought. Rory didn't confess to her boyfriend about cheating with Logan in AYITL. Lorelai tended to pick fights with her parents, Sookie, Rory, or Luke when she was upset about something that had either nothing to do with them, or little to do with them. One I remember (because it was so idiotic) was Lorelai picking a fight with teenage Rory "for borrowing/stretching out my sweater" because she was... I think jealous of the attention Rory was getting from Emily and Richard.   Lorelai was rarely one to come out and say, "I'm angry/hurt/scared by your actions/talks of plans."  Had she flat-out told Luke she wasn't okay with postponing the wedding and was feeling insecure instead of stuffing her feelings, getting drunk and humiliating herself at Lane and Zack's wedding, maybe the Chris/Lorelai/Luke mess wouldn't have ever happened (in a perfect world where AS-P didn't want to tank the show because she left).

If you want to make a comparison, when Rory realized Logan was going to marry Odette whether she remained in his life or not, she quietly decided to walk away after that last night together. She didn't react to disappointment by getting drunk and being disruptive somewhere, embarrassing herself or any friends or family.  I also saw Rory care about her mother's and grandparents' feelings and welfare on a regular basis during the series, compared to approx. 5 times that Lorelai did - including both the series and AYITL.  Rory's downward spiral, where she didn't care about being considerate to her mother or her grandparents, is the clear exception to her pattern of caring.

I've wondered if Rory's attachment to Logan "the jerk" (as Jess called him) was someone a psychological response to missing out on her father's love and attention.  Even she acknowledged similarities between Logan and Christopher when they compared getting kicked out of schools.  Yes, Rory had Richard's love, but she was not one of Richard's top priorities on a weekly basis. Logan often made her feel like she was a top priority for him, which made it easier for her to ignore or forgive the controlling and other behaviors she or family/friends didn't like.

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 1:23 PM, MatildaMoody said:

For me, Logan was always Tristan 2.0, which is why I never got why Rory 1. fell so hard for him, and 2. allowed him to manipulate her so easily.

What I never truly understood was the writers' insistence on assassinating perfectly good characters like Dean and Marty to service some notion that Logan was the better guy. I could almost get the Dean thing. Rory was feeling disconnected from everything that she had just accepted as her life in Stars Hollow as she progressed through Yale. So, her wanting to go back to the first guy who truly liked her for who she was and who went out of his way to show that he was in awe of her constantly, made plenty of sense. What didn't actually make sense was Dean. Sure, he was still in love with Rory (or thought he was) when he got married. But, it made no sense for him to get married in the first place. Remember, he had started considering college and was planning to go to a local community college and further his education — because Rory inspired him to do so. Suddenly, he is getting married right out of high school? And then, the guy who believed the "Donna Reed" lifestyle had plenty to offer was willing to cheat on his wife?

And then we have Marty, a guy who was mature enough to recognize that he couldn't continue to hang around as friends with someone he had feelings for without it causing more problems, is suddenly pretending he doesn't know Rory and trying to flirt with her at his girlfriend's party? What the hell, writers?

I never understood why they needed to assassination characters either especially Dean and Marty. It wasn't necessary to introduce Jess or have Rory become interest in Jess. As much as I like Dean in season one its perfectly understandable that they don't last. Dean and Rory easily could have broken up by the end of season one or have Rory realize he's not what she wants anymore. They had differences that easily could have broken them up instead of dumbing Dean down and watching Rory fawn over Jess. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by andromeda331

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:11 PM, AsYouWish said:

I love that you accidentally typed Tristan instead of Logan! Perfectly understandable slip given their unpleasant similarities :)

But I think I actually liked Tristan's role on the show better than Logan's, which I would guess is unpopular given what a jerk Tristan was. Around Tristan, Rory was sharp and vibrant, more assertive than usual instead of less, and while she seemed to see some sort of potential in him, she didn't tolerate and enable his crappy behavior. Around Logan, she was the exact opposite of everything I just wrote! 

Yes! A lot of his worst traits were on display the very first episode we saw him. Smirking, dismissive of everyone who he deems unworthy, impossibly condescending, and then the ostenibly playful banter with Rory about his treatment of Marty that really just served to illustrate what a smug and self-superior jerk he is. And don't forget his arm casually slung around Random Female #968 when we first see him*, just in case we didn't get what a total 'stud' he is, though of course we never saw him give any woman he was with even a shred of respect other than our very special Rory. It was hate at first sight for me.  

I liked Tristian role too for the same reason. Rory was very assertive and sharp. When their in line for tickets to the dance Rory has no problem snarking with him "I'll send her a condolence card" but then she did try to cheer him up when Summer dumped him at that party. I agree completely about Logan. 

[Bringonthedrama]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Rory was very assertive and sharp. When their in line for tickets to the dance Rory has no problem snarking with him "I'll send her a condolence card" but then she did try to cheer him up when Summer dumped him at that party. I agree completely about Logan. 

Rory could be assertive and sharp with a guy when she wasn't into him or in a relationship with him.  Tristan was the first example of it. Tristan kinda liked Rory, but the feeling wasn't mutual. She and Tristan kissed because they both felt like crap (her about breaking up with Dean) and had a real moment of connection when he wasn't just being a show-off ass.

Before they started dating, Jess picked up on hostility coming from Rory and asked about it. She angrily told him that the people of Stars Hollow had been giving Luke a hard time about taking in Jess given all his hoodlum behaviors, that Luke has done a lot for her and her mom, and that Jess didn't seem to care about getting along with anyone, or give a damn about making life difficult for Luke.  While Rory was probably somewhat attracted to him then, she was still definitely invested in her relationship with Dean/not thinking of Jess in a romantic way (in my opinion).

Fast forward to Logan at Yale. Logan and the h.s. girl from Chilton could see Rory was angry with Logan for pulling that stunt with his LDB buddies in the middle of her class. Once the Chilton girl walked away, Rory told Logan he was a "butt-faced miscreant" and that they valued different things. Logan was taken aback.  I believe she thought he was attractive at that point, but wasn't yet thinking of him in a romantic way.

[Anela]

She was sharp with Dean, too, before he spoke to her. She dropped her stuff, and he was standing too close to her. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Anela

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

She didn't realize that was Dean until she looked up at his face, though, at which point she became awkward and bumbling. 

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Rory could be assertive and sharp with a guy when she wasn't into him or in a relationship with him.  Tristan was the first example of it. Tristan kinda liked Rory, but the feeling wasn't mutual. She and Tristan kissed because they both felt like crap (her about breaking up with Dean) and had a real moment of connection when he wasn't just being a show-off ass.

Before they started dating, Jess picked up on hostility coming from Rory and asked about it. She angrily told him that the people of Stars Hollow had been giving Luke a hard time about taking in Jess given all his hoodlum behaviors, that Luke has done a lot for her and her mom, and that Jess didn't seem to care about getting along with anyone, or give a damn about making life difficult for Luke.  While Rory was probably somewhat attracted to him then, she was still definitely invested in her relationship with Dean/not thinking of Jess in a romantic way (in my opinion).

Fast forward to Logan at Yale. Logan and the h.s. girl from Chilton could see Rory was angry with Logan for pulling that stunt with his LDB buddies in the middle of her class. Once the Chilton girl walked away, Rory told Logan he was a "butt-faced miscreant" and that they valued different things. Logan was taken aback.  I believe she thought he was attractive at that point, but wasn't yet thinking of him in a romantic way.

One that nag that bothered me, was that she seemed to be more interested in angling an invitation to a party, with a certain famous guest. She was in awe of the people he got to be around, and didn't appreciate. Unless I'm forgetting something (which is likely), her interest seemed to develop from his lack of interest at first. He did the same thing as Jess: waited for her to bring it up. 

5 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

She didn't realize that was Dean until she looked up at his face, though, at which point she became awkward and bumbling. 

Only because he knew the movie reference, and probably because he was polite. He didn't snark back. She didn't know him at all, at that point.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Anela

[shron17]

13 hours ago, Anela said:

One that nag that bothered me, was that she seemed to be more interested in angling an invitation to a party, with a certain famous guest. She was in awe of the people he got to be around, and didn't appreciate. Unless I'm forgetting something (which is likely), her interest seemed to develop from his lack of interest at first. He did the same thing as Jess: waited for her to bring it up. 

Interesting insight.  I've tried to figure out when Rory's interest started and could only conclude it was around the time she was trying to get invited to the party and stemmed from his family's power and prestige.  The idea that Logan's disinterest caused Rory's interest makes a bit more sense to me.  I've also read a theory that Rory came to depend on Logan to validate her as a person and a journalist, which would explain why she let him talk her out their breakups and why she was seeing him in the revival.

On 9/12/2017 at 10:08 PM, Bringonthedrama said:

I've wondered if Rory's attachment to Logan "the jerk" (as Jess called him) was someone a psychological response to missing out on her father's love and attention.  Even she acknowledged similarities between Logan and Christopher when they compared getting kicked out of schools.  Yes, Rory had Richard's love, but she was not one of Richard's top priorities on a weekly basis. Logan often made her feel like she was a top priority for him, which made it easier for her to ignore or forgive the controlling and other behaviors she or family/friends didn't like.

This makes a lot of sense too.  Rory probably couldn't help but wonder what her life would have been like with the privileges her parents were brought up with and Logan was her connection to that life.

On 9/11/2017 at 6:49 PM, tarotx said:

Rory and Logan have this kind of verbal pro - con way of making decisions. With Rory getting to make the final decision. "Your choice Ace".

Well, I think Logan only said that once, and he always guided their decision making talks and came up with the pros and cons.  In fact, it seems to me he learned quickly to use Rory's method of logical decision-making in his favor by feeding her the "facts" as he saw them.

Edited September 14, 2017 by shron17

[AsYouWish]

I'm not sure exactly where to ask this, but does anyone here know what ASP would have done with Season 7 if she'd still been around? Has she ever talked about her specific plans for that season? 

I've seen interesting speculation that the revival showed us exactly what ASP would have done with Season 7, and some elements of the revival would have made more sense to me if they'd taken place back then rather than after a decade had elapsed: Rory and Logan still doing whatever it is they were doing; Lorelai and Luke still not communicating even on a level that I do with my barrista, let alone with a long-term significant other;  Jess still not over Rory; Rory being that much of a lost and clueless mess, everyone still just really immature and acting childish even by this show's standards. What gives me pause is that ASP claims she'd always had those last words in mind, so are we to believe that she would have ended Season 7 with Rory unexpectedly (and presumably not wanting to be) pregnant just as she was getting ready to start the life she and Lorelai had talked about since the first episode? That can't honestly be what ASP had in mind for the original series' finale...or could it? I need to stop thinking so much about this show and trying to apply some semblance of logic to the storytelling. It's the path to madness :-) 

Edited September 14, 2017 by AsYouWish

[tarotx]

Logan didn"t just say it once.

And he didn't make up facts either. He just knew his positions. Rory often didn"t. And not just with Logan. With everybody. When she stands her ground, Rory gets her way.

Growing up with Lorelai often kept Rory from owning her own mind. Lorelai's a force of nature who gets her way. 

Is this thread now a discussion thread? We can directly counter what someone else says? 

[chitowngirl]

2 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

I'm not sure exactly where to ask this, but does anyone here know what ASP would have done with Season 7 if she'd still been around? Has she ever talked about her specific plans for that season? 

I've seen interesting speculation that the revival showed us exactly what ASP would have done with Season 7, and some elements of the revival would have made more sense to me if they'd taken place back then rather than after a decade had elapsed: Rory and Logan still doing whatever it is they were doing; Lorelai and Luke still not communicating even on a level that I do with my barrista, let alone with a long-term significant other;  Jess still not over Rory; Rory being that much of a lost and clueless mess, everyone still just really immature and acting childish even by this show's standards. What gives me pause is that ASP claims she'd always had those last words in mind, so are we to believe that she would have ended Season 7 with Rory unexpectedly (and presumably not wanting to be) pregnant just as she was getting ready to start the life she and Lorelai had talked about since the first episode? That can't honestly be what ASP had in mind for the original series' finale...or could it? I need to stop thinking so much about this show and trying to apply some semblance of logic to the storytelling. It's the path to madness :-) 

I would have hated it if ASP would have ended the series with those 4 words. Her grandparents, Richard especially, would have been so disappointed.  They would have seen the past coming right back.  Now ending the revival that way makes it somewhat interesting. Rory is an adult who has done things and staying in Stars Hollow to raise her child could be interesting if they wanted to do more with future episodes.  Rory running the paper; raising a baby as a single mom, but with the father perhaps in the picture but torn between his two worlds.  

[Bringonthedrama]

8 hours ago, shron17 said:

Interesting insight.  I've tried to figure out when Rory's interest started and could only conclude it was around the time she was trying to get invited to the party and stemmed from his family's power and prestige.  The idea that Logan's disinterest caused Rory's interest makes a bit more sense to me.  I've also read a theory that Rory came to depend on Logan to validate her as a person and a journalist, which would explain why she let him talk her out their breakups and why she was seeing him in the revival.

 

Seemed like it was combination of his family's prestige (esp. the Huntzberger connection to journalism and such events as the party for the writer), Logan's writing talent and being knowledgeable about famous journalists, and Logan validating her as a person and  journalist. Logan had made it clear that his "disinterest" was that he  didn't feel he could do a relationship - not that he wasn't interested in her as a person or as a sex partner. He liked casual sex, and correctly guessed she wasn't into that. 

Rory being attracted to Logan for those reasons is exactly why the tension started with Lorelai. While Lorelai claimed she wanted Rory to have the life and advantages she never had, she obviously never gave any thought as to what that would look like - that it would separate them. Lorelai was not well read (I don't think we ever saw her with any book other than a travel guide for NY),  didn't visit museums, didn't have intellectual friends (couldn't really relate to fiance Max), and got annoyed by Rory saying they couldn't carve their initials into this or that space in the halls of Chilton (moments after graduation) because Rory kept associating the spaces with such and such notable scholar/famous person.  All of Lorelai's non-work interests seemed to be movies, music, and pop culture. Once when Rory told Lorelai, in a frustrated tone, that she can't understand whatever situation Rory was upset about because she didn't go to college, Lorelai looked taken aback.  It seemed like she just assumed Rory would only be part of that high-society world while she was in college classrooms - no developing of long-term friendships with intellectuals and/or the rich, no high-society relationship in part because of course her mother wouldn't approve, no building of stronger bonds with her grandparents despite *Richard being an alum.*  I remember when people surrounded Rory during her 21st b-day at the Gilmore home, and Lorelai  was quite literally left out of the circle, she looked heartbroken.  I believe that in her heart, she wanted to keep Rory to herself *always.*  I think she had naively believed Rory would never stop being her BFF daughter-fellow small town girl first; high-society events/interests and friendships or relationships with guys like Logan would come secondary to Mommy. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Seemed like it was combination of his family's prestige (esp. the Huntzberger connection to journalism and such events as the party for the writer), Logan's writing talent and being knowledgeable about famous journalists, and Logan validating her as a person and  journalist. Logan had made it clear that his "disinterest" was that he  didn't feel he could do a relationship - not that he wasn't interested in her as a person or as a sex partner. He liked casual sex, and correctly guessed she wasn't into that. 

Rory being attracted to Logan for those reasons is exactly why the tension started with Lorelai. While Lorelai claimed she wanted Rory to have the life and advantages she never had, she obviously never gave any thought as to what that would look like - that it would separate them. Lorelai was not well read (I don't think we ever saw her with any book other than a travel guide for NY),  didn't visit museums, didn't have intellectual friends (couldn't really relate to fiance Max), and got annoyed by Rory saying they couldn't carve their initials into this or that space in the halls of Chilton (moments after graduation) because Rory kept associating the spaces with such and such notable scholar/famous person.  All of Lorelai's non-work interests seemed to be movies, music, and pop culture. Once when Rory told Lorelai, in a frustrated tone, that she can't understand whatever situation Rory was upset about because she didn't go to college, Lorelai looked taken aback.  It seemed like she just assumed Rory would only be part of that high-society world while she was in college classrooms - no developing of long-term friendships with intellectuals and/or the rich, no high-society relationship in part because of course her mother wouldn't approve, no building of stronger bonds with her grandparents despite *Richard being an alum.*  I remember when people surrounded Rory during her 21st b-day at the Gilmore home, and Lorelai  was quite literally left out of the circle, she looked heartbroken.  I believe that in her heart, she wanted to keep Rory to herself *always.*  I think she had naively believed Rory would never stop being her BFF daughter-fellow small town girl first; high-society events/interests and friendships or relationships with guys like Logan would come secondary to Mommy. 

She also thought that Rory really wouldn't want those things. Back in season one after Rory goes golfing with Richard Lorelai admits it never occurred to her that Rory would want that kind of life. She's just as surprised when Rory tells her she wants to be a debutante I think that's the one where Lorelai admits she ran from that life and assumed Rory would run too. It never occurred to her that Rory would want the life her parents had.  Maybe its were Lorelai's advice to Lane came from? The whole you don't know what your kid's going to be like. Mrs. Kim didn't think she was going to have a daughter who liked Jane's Addiction and Lorelai didn't think she have a daughter that wanted Richard and Emily's world.