One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Lorelai said they used to visit when she lived at the inn, but had never been to the house

That's right!  Thank you!

So it IS odd, then, that E/R had been to the Inn but had never met Mia.  Hmmm.......

I wonder if Lorelai didn't want Mia spilling the beans about her actually living on the premises?  That's an interesting thought.  She may have glossed over to Mia just how much her parents knew about her life in Stars Hollow, and Mia wouldn't have known to keep quiet about certain things.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Mia probably didn't live on the premises, though, so maybe Lorelai had Richard and Emily visit when she knew Mia would be home. I doubt the owner would feel the need to be there during the weekend, for instance. 

[Frelling Tralk]

On 09/08/2017 at 2:57 AM, WhoaWhoKnew said:

On my first watch I kept waiting for it to come out that Emily and Richard pressured Lorelai into having an abortion or giving Rory up for adoption, so she ran away. Of course, that never happened, they just had clashing personalities.

It is interesting that Emily and Richard were surprisingly supportive in spite of everything, Emily immediately shoots down Christopher's parents wanting to pressure Lorelai into an abortion to make the problem go away, and in the flashbacks Lorelai and Rory were living at Richard and Emily's after the birth. Richard obviously wanted to push Lorelai and Christopher into getting married so that Lorelai wouldn't give birth ~out of wedlock~, and he clearly resented Lorelai refusing to go along with that, but she was still able to refuse and wasn't banished from the family home or anything as a result. I can imagine how hurtful it was for Emily to try her best to accommodate Rory and accept the situation, but still have her daughter take off without even a goodbye 

[MatildaMoody]

This is my unpopular opinion. Paris had much better chemistry with Jess and Logan, than Rory EVER did. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:09 AM, MatildaMoody said:

This is my unpopular opinion. Paris had much better chemistry with Jess and Logan, than Rory EVER did. 

I love that scene with Paris laying down the law to Logan about how she wasn't afraid of his father, mother or cat. I really liked the idea of Paris and Jess together. I really liked them arguing over books together. I know Rory was there too but I found Paris and Jess more interesting. I really wanted to see them together or even just bonding about their crappy situations. I wonder if Paris or Jess would understand each other better then Rory understood either of them? 

[JayInChicago]

I realized why I don't really like the Life and Death Brigade.

 

i just don't think it fits with this show. It seems like something from a worse show, a show I wouldn't watch. I don't really know how to explain it further than that though.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:09 PM, MatildaMoody said:

This is my unpopular opinion. Paris had much better chemistry with Jess and Logan, than Rory EVER did. 

Completely agree! I especially loved Paris and Jess in There's the Rub. I wouldn't have minded seeing how things would have gone if those two had gotten together.

[AsYouWish]

A friend told me about this place and I couldn't wait to join in! There's such a broad range of opinions here that I'm not entirely sure which ones are popular or unpopular anymore, but they're all incredibly interesting. I've really enjoyed seeing so many different takes on this show. It's also great to see how many people this show still touches across multiple generations. I'm in my mid-40s and am constantly discussing it with people decades older and decades younger than I am. My mom and I can still always rely on GG as a safe subject to bond over even during times when nearly every other discussion topic causes friction. 

I'm in the "Jess and Rory are meant to be" crowd. I have no trouble seeing why some people hate him. If you described him to me, I would have assumed that I'd dislike him too. If my daughter brought home a  pre-season-6 Jess, I'd be alarmed and doubt I'd trust him any more than Lorelai did, especially after he went out of his way to make the worst first impression possible. But like others have said, when I watch Jess and Rory, I see two people who belong together.  My friend and I swoon like pre-teens when he returns in LMHYBRO. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but has anyone else here thought about whether Milo and Alexis breaking up or even just Milo's availability vs. Matt's availability affected the direction they took with Jess/Rory and Logan/Rory in season 6 and in the revival? Am I the only person who's strange enough to wonder about that? It really felt like ASP was permanently pulling the plug on Logan/Rory at least a few different times during the series, but like those horror movies when things that seem dead spring back to life, Logan and his waste of oxygen "Brigade" kept appearing on the show long after I'd thought I was rid of them.

As you can tell, I'm one of the fans who didn't like or trust Logan. I also agree with the poster who noted that almost all of his growth took place after ASP's departure during season 7. I would go as far as to say that he and his relationship with Rory were almost unrecognizable for the majority of that season. This leads to the unpopular opinion that I didn't think Logan was out of character in the revival. He was just back to being ASP's Logan, fun and allegedly charming and a generous guy in many ways, but also smug, entitled, condescending, focused on his own pleasure and desires above all else, and simultaneously resenting being the Huntzberger heir while still lapping up its benefits at every turn. I'm not saying he and Rory didn't ever genuinely love each other, just that I never thought the relationship was "the one" for either of them. I wasn't surprised to hear ASP say something about how it was a fun adventure but not exactly deep, because that's how it always came across to me too.

The other thing that remained constant was that I don't like who Rory is when she's with him, either in the reivival or the original series. She's responsible for her own choices, there's no debating that, but it's also true that none of us have fixed, static personalities, so some people just bring out better sides of ouselves than others do. There are perfectly nice people who I just don't like myself around very much because for whatever reasons interacting with them brings out tendencies that don't feel like the authentic or better "me."  It's especially true given that Rory didn't have as strong and secure a sense of self as I'd initially thought, so she's susceptible to becoming very different depending on who she's spending her time with. It's not just about her reading less and partying more or even choosing to spend time with people I never could have seen her tolerating before season 5. She just didn't seem like herself, not who she used to be or who she'd always said she wanted to be. I wish I could quote the people above who said that it felt like with Logan she was escaping her real self rather than discovering it because that brilliantly captures what I wanted to say, but I'm worried that while trying to figure out the quote function here I'll accidentally delete this whole post! 

I don't even know how I feel about Luke and Lorelai anymore. I think it comes down to still caring about them and believing they could be happy together but wishing someone more adept at writing romance than ASP is had been the one responsible for how their relationship unfolded. Sorry to again sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I've always been convinced that ASP didn't intend to put them together until the very end of the series. I heard the network pressured her to put them together sooner, but she didn't seem to want to write them as a couple at all, at least based on what came through on screen. 

I like season 6 more than almost anyone else does. This one is so unpopular that I'm now realizing I should have led with it! It's not up there with seasons 2, 4, or possibly even 1, 3 or 5, but unlike season 7, season 6 still feels like Gilmore Girls to me and still has most of what I love about the show, just not always in as large quantities as previous seasons. There's a lot about it that connects with me and which I find really interesting, and I relate to how lost Rory is even though I don't love how the show dealt with and resolved it.  Season 6 has a couple of episodes that I'd rank alongside the very best ones of the series:  21ITLN and LMHYBRO. Also I use the fast forward button a lot and just skip to the best scenes, so that increases my enjoyment of it :-) Notice I'm not including the revival on my list of Gilmore Girls seasons. I'm trying to block at least 95% of it from my memory. 

I don't hate Dean. I also don't like Dean. But Rory/Dean's relationship usually bothered me less than Rory/Logan. Rory still usually felt like Rory with Dean, for better and worse. Do I now win the award for weirdest opinion expressed here?  

I am the self-appointed captain of Team Rory. As you can tell from this post, I have no trouble criticizing her, but I'll always love her anyway. I'm actually less forgiving of Lorelai and Emily than I am of Rory, which seems very unpopular, though overall I still love those two women too. I guess it's just a matter of which flaws happen to bother each of us the most, because heaven knows every character has plenty of those flaws to choose from.  Rory's may bother me less because I see a lot of myself in her. In general I agree that I wouldn't like many of the Gilmore Girls characters in real life, but as a fictional universe I still love this show and its characters. Except Liz and Anna. :) 

[Katy M]

48 minutes ago, AsYouWish said:

I am the self-appointed captain of Team Rory. As you can tell from this post, I have no trouble criticizing her, but I'll always love her anyway. I'm actually less forgiving of Lorelai and Emily than I am of Rory, which seems very unpopular, though overall I still love those two women too. I guess it's just a matter of which flaws happen to bother each of us the most, because heaven knows every character has plenty of those flaws to choose from.  Rory's may bother me less because I see a lot of myself in her. In general I agree that I wouldn't like many of the Gilmore Girls characters in real life, but as a fictional universe I still love this show and its characters. Except Liz and Anna. :) 

I love high school Rory.  No, she's not perfect.  But, she's still a pretty good kid who seems to genuinely care about people even if she is a bit selfish and self-centered at times.  So, basically she's a teenager.  I even pretty much like Freshman Rory.  But, after that, I just almost can't stand her.  Adultery is like in my top 10 of bad things you can do.  Stealing a yacht because your feelings got hurt doesn't even make sense to me.   And, I think she regresses into being a more selfish person instead of growing into an adult.  And, yes, I agree that Logan is part of the problem, even though, like you said, she is 100% responsible for her own choices.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I love high school Rory.  No, she's not perfect.  But, she's still a pretty good kid who seems to genuinely care about people even if she is a bit selfish and self-centered at times.  So, basically she's a teenager.  I even pretty much like Freshman Rory.  But, after that, I just almost can't stand her.  Adultery is like in my top 10 of bad things you can do.  Stealing a yacht because your feelings got hurt doesn't even make sense to me.   And, I think she regresses into being a more selfish person instead of growing into an adult.  And, yes, I agree that Logan is part of the problem, even though, like you said, she is 100% responsible for her own choices.

Me too. High school Rory was so refreshing after the endless amount of TV teens who love nothing more then partying and boys. She loved school, learning and books. Books were my life and I loved that there was a character who loved books as much as I did. She loved to watch movies and hang out with her mom. She was a nice kid who tried to be a nice kid. Rory was so relatable. Panicking over what to wear when Lorelai inviting Dean over and Lorelai helping her decide what to wear. Out of place at Emily's fancy birthday party, but completely happy at the Stars Hollow party at home. So excited to get to school she's trying to convince Lorelai to take her to school early. What happened to that Rory? She was so cool. Later she became so  completely unrecognizable. 

[Kohola3]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Later she became so  completely unrecognizable. 

The ultimate in ASP's character assassinations.  She really hated her characters.

[AsYouWish]

Oh no, it seems that nothing I wanted to say came out right. This doesn't bode well for my ability to write a coherent fanfic! I do very much prefer High School Rory. I just meant that I never reached the point of completely disliking her or failing to relate to her on any level. Anyway, it seems everything I wrote is unpopular even by the standards of an unpopular opinions thread, so I'll stick with the games and fanfic! 

[Crs97]

AsYouWish, no need to leave!  That is the beauty of the Unpopular Thread; you can be at a table for one with no judgment, but give it enough time and someone will join you.

I struggled to like Rory after she slept with Dean and didn't care about his wife.  She was a mess during the Logan phase, although I don't blame Logan nearly as much as others.  I felt like the writers infantilized her as she grew; suddenly she couldn't take an ounce of criticism without deciding to steal a yacht (proving the critique totally right) and couldn't get up the gumption to say hello to a famous reporter, yet thought she could hold her own as a journalist driving for the hard story.  It was like ASP wanted her to remain innocent and charming, but forgot that some traits at age 6 aren't adorable at age 16 or 26.  It was also a warning about the effects of treating someone like a special snowflake her entire life; she started believing the hype and was left without skills to cope in the real world.

I was back to liking her at the end of the series, but the reunion was god-awful to her.

[andromeda331]

27 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

AsYouWish, no need to leave!  That is the beauty of the Unpopular Thread; you can be at a table for one with no judgment, but give it enough time and someone will join you.

I struggled to like Rory after she slept with Dean and didn't care about his wife.  She was a mess during the Logan phase, although I don't blame Logan nearly as much as others.  I felt like the writers infantilized her as she grew; suddenly she couldn't take an ounce of criticism without deciding to steal a yacht (proving the critique totally right) and couldn't get up the gumption to say hello to a famous reporter, yet thought she could hold her own as a journalist driving for the hard story.  It was like ASP wanted her to remain innocent and charming, but forgot that some traits at age 6 aren't adorable at age 16 or 26.  It was also a warning about the effects of treating someone like a special snowflake her entire life; she started believing the hype and was left without skills to cope in the real world.

I was back to liking her at the end of the series, but the reunion was god-awful to her.

So did I. Sleeping with Dean after he was married was something I didn't think was something Rory would do. It would have been one thing if she went back to him and he wasn't married. But your exactly right. The writers infantilized Rory as she got older the more childish she got. There was really no real reason for it. Yes, Rory was praised by her mother and grandparents constantly. But she was more grounded in high school. But all that was gone and suddenly she was getting drunk, partying and stealing a boat. If you think about it that's really what she did to most of her characters. She certainly never let Lorelai grow up and mature. Lorelai got to the point where it really was hard to tell what she even wanted. Emily also acted more and more immature. Trashing Luke to his face after forcing Lorelai to bring him to dinner. Trying to break up Luke and Lorelai by using Christopher? Then getting ticked off that Lorelai refused to speak to her because of it or even afterwards. Putting together that alumi party because Rory was dating Dean again. Why? It was clear Rory and Dean round two wasn't going to work.  Never learning Lane's name? Instead of having Emily and Lorelai working on their relationship over time the way Lane and Mrs. Kim were allowed to evolve into a really wonderful relationship. 

1 hour ago, AsYouWish said:

Oh no, it seems that nothing I wanted to say came out right. This doesn't bode well for my ability to write a coherent fanfic! I do very much prefer High School Rory. I just meant that I never reached the point of completely disliking her or failing to relate to her on any level. Anyway, it seems everything I wrote is unpopular even by the standards of an unpopular opinions thread, so I'll stick with the games and fanfic! 

Please don't leave. You expressed yourself very well and listed the reasons for your likes and dislikes of the show. That's the great thing about the Gilmore threads and this one in particular. You can talk about parts that you don't like even though a lot of fans do. There's always people posting how much they love Rory and Logan or Rory and Jess and others admitting they don't like one or the other couple. Crs97 is right you hang around here and you'll find people agreeing with you. Its a lot of fun.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

AsYouWish, no need to leave!  That is the beauty of the Unpopular Thread; you can be at a table for one with no judgment, but give it enough time and someone will join you.

Agreed!  We just love discussing the show so much we always tend to jump in even on the UO posts LOL.  But I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say there's no judgement here, just discussion.

[clack]

The Life and Death Brigade was a major mis-step on ASP's part.

I'm totally on board with Rory falling in with a rich and entitled crowd at Yale after floundering around socially her freshman year. This is a smart move dramatically, setting up as it does the conflict between Lorelai's world and the world of Rory's grandparents. Which one will Rory choose? Or can she have both?

The mis-step then is not one of intent, but rather one of execution. The L&DB comes across as whimsical artifice, something taken from a 1930's screwball farce. They are not sufficiently weighty to counteract the gravitational pull of Lorelai's world.

Didn't ASP move in Hollywood and Broadway circles? Wasn't she familiar with social groups of rich, bright, witty, privileged people? Why not take Rory's new social circle from ASP's real life experience, rather than from other fictions?

If the L&DB were as charming to the viewer as they apparently were to Rory, then we'd have some strong dramatic conflict. Instead we got plot silliness, culminating in yacht stealing and dropping out of school.

[Goldmoon]

I seem to recall I have read some disapproval for Logan "cheating" on Rory during their break in Season 6.  I have watched that section now and I think it may be an UO that I completely agree with Logan.  He was not with Rory, so what was she fussing about?  They might have been more clear in their communication, but I don't think that fidelity is called for in "taking a break."

[ghoulina]

I don't think it was technically cheating. But I still would have been disgusted with him. That's an awful lot of "hooking up" in such a short period of time. 

[Kohola3]

There's taking a break (whereby think things over and maybe go out with a group or one individual) and then there's sleeping your way through an entire wedding party.  Logan was a dirtbag.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I don't think it was technically cheating. But I still would have been disgusted with him. That's an awful lot of "hooking up" in such a short period of time. 

 

19 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

There's taking a break (whereby think things over and maybe go out with a group or one individual) and then there's sleeping your way through an entire wedding party.  Logan was a dirtbag.

Two parts bugged me about Logan's cheating on Rory. The first part he insists it wasn't cheating because he thought they broke up. Rory thought they had a fight and were taking a break from each other. Does that mean every time they fight Rory has to clarify that its a fight and their not breaking up so he doesn't go and sleep with other women? The second part is how many women he hooked up with. An entire bridal party during such a short time? He doesn't tell Rory despite knowing they would all be there at the wedding and his first reaction is to blame the girls. How he spoke about those girls to Rory while at the same time insisting he wasn't cheating really said a lot more about Logan and how he treats women. Why does he feel the need to blame them? And call them names? 

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

The first part he insists it wasn't cheating because he thought they broke up. Rory thought they had a fight and were taking a break from each other.

Wait. Was this Ross and Rachel 2.0?

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Why does he feel the need to blame them? And call them names? 

Because he's a jerk?

[chitowngirl]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Wait. Was this Ross and Rachel 2.0?

Ha! I came to post the same thing. There's a whole thread about whether Ross and Rachel were on a break in the Friends thread. Substitute Logan and Rory for Ross and Rachel and the argument is the same.

[Guest]

Rory knew Logan was a playboy, for lack of a better word, before ever dating him.  Their relationship started with just casual sex and she had no illusions of monogamy during that time.  It also wasn't "just a fight."  Rory wasn't speaking to him.  I can see why he thought they were broken up. If it had been a fight and he'd gone out that night or the next day and had sex with someone else, I'd call it cheating. But I think it was implied it was much longer. If you go by the air dates (which aren't a perfect reflection of the timeline, but I think are reasonably close), their fight was at the beginning of November.  On Thanksgiving (so about 3 weeks later), Honor tells Rory she was sorry they broke up. I think 3 weeks is enough time for Logan to assume Rory was breaking up with him, not just having fought with him.

They were broken up until after the Stars Hollow Winter Carnival in January. I think Rory was naive to think that Logan didn't have sex with anyone else for that time frame given that she knew he thought it was a breakup and his reputation.  As far as if he should have warned her, I can see where he would have thought it wouldn't come up.  She wasn't planning on hanging out with the bridesmaids. Honor forced that, and Logan didn't know about it at the time.  

As far as when the right time to tell your girlfriend you sexed up other women while you weren't together or the magic number that crosses the line into too many sexual partners, I don't have the answers to that. But I definitely see Logan's side of the argument.

[Anela]

22 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

Two parts bugged me about Logan's cheating on Rory. The first part he insists it wasn't cheating because he thought they broke up. Rory thought they had a fight and were taking a break from each other. Does that mean every time they fight Rory has to clarify that its a fight and their not breaking up so he doesn't go and sleep with other women? The second part is how many women he hooked up with. An entire bridal party during such a short time? He doesn't tell Rory despite knowing they would all be there at the wedding and his first reaction is to blame the girls. How he spoke about those girls to Rory while at the same time insisting he wasn't cheating really said a lot more about Logan and how he treats women. Why does he feel the need to blame them? And call them names? 

Yep, all of this. 

But she then cheats with him in the revival, showing she had learned nothing after cheating with Dean. 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Anela

[AsYouWish]

I agree with a lot of the above. For me the "sleeping with every bridesmaid and lord knows who else" thing was less about whether Logan was technically cheating, which I agree he wasn't, and more a reflection of just how lacking he is in normal impulse control, healthy coping mechanisms (guzzling booze, jumping off cliffs and having random sex whenever he's feeling down), and that he's a sleazy, entitled jerk who uses women for his own selfish purposes and then has the audacity to demean them afterwards. I don't like how passive-aggressive Rory was in stating she was fine with what had happened while not truly forgiving him, but I don't blame Rory for not wanting to cozy up to him immediately after, because it really is kind of gross. I also think it's natural to wonder just how deeply in love with her he really was when he's readily hopping into bed with a bunch of women the second he thinks they've technically split up. I get that people like Logan can very easily separate sex from any sort of emotion, but I understand Rory feeling awful about it. (Not that Rory has ever cared at all about how her men treat other women: e.g., Dean with Lindsay, Jess with Shane, Logan with half the eligible females on the east coast, and so on. She's always focused only on the degree to which they adore HER, Rory Gilmore!)

[Kohola3]

Well said, AsYouWish!  The whole cheating aspect was a minor lump in a really huge pile of steaming crap known as Logan.  He's been an impulsive jerk for 21 years, did Rory really think he was going to embrace morals because of her?

Well, yes, the Gilmore Girls did tend to expect everyone to change their lifestyles to fit into their little world.  Silly me.

[Guest]

I mean, I think what Logan did (having sex with 2 girls and making out with 2 others) is far less morally reprehensible than having sex with a married man because he was "yours first" or having sex on your parents' balcony while your 16 year old daughter is alone inside, but clearly YMMV.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I mean, I think what Logan did (having sex with 2 girls and making out with 2 others) is far less morally reprehensible than having sex with a married man because he was "yours first" or having sex on your parents' balcony while your 16 year old daughter is alone inside, but clearly YMMV.

I think it's all bad.  But, Rory wasn't technically alone, she was with Emily.  But, as upsetting as her night was, everyone should have been with her. 

[ghoulina]

I think what Lorelai did on that balcony was way worse to Luke than it was to Rory. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think what Lorelai did on that balcony was way worse to Luke than it was to Rory. 

In what way?  They weren't dating.

[Anela]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I mean, I think what Logan did (having sex with 2 girls and making out with 2 others) is far less morally reprehensible than having sex with a married man because he was "yours first" or having sex on your parents' balcony while your 16 year old daughter is alone inside, but clearly YMMV.

It's all bad, like Katy said. Chris should have been the one to defend both Lorelai and Rory - at least as much as Richard did (before he lit into Lorelai, too). He just sat there and blamed Lorelai for the blow-up (for mentioning George Bush). 

Wait, it's been a while since I watched it. That was the same night, wasn't it? I can't remember how they ended up on the balcony. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

For me, it's not so much that Logan hooked up with/slept with his sisters friends, it's the low regard in which he held them and the nasty way he spoke about them after Rory found out. You're entitled to basic respect from your sexual partners, no matter how casual an arrangement it is. 

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

In what way?  They weren't dating.

She bailed on their plans. She was supposed to help him paint and it was actually HER idea. She had talked him into it, and he ended up being pretty into it - then she just doesn't show. Doesn't call. They were friends, but she got so wrapped up in her stuff that Luke went - POOF! Completely out of her mind. He was really hurt by that. I doubt Rory even noticed that her mom was gone for that long, or wondered about what she was doing. 

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

She bailed on their plans. She was supposed to help him paint and it was actually HER idea. She had talked him into it, and he ended up being pretty into it - then she just doesn't show. Doesn't call. They were friends, but she got so wrapped up in her stuff that Luke went - POOF! Completely out of her mind. He was really hurt by that. I doubt Rory even noticed that her mom was gone for that long, or wondered about what she was doing. 

That's true.  but, that was the next morning, not while she was having sex.  And, with the whole business of Rory being rejected by her grandparetns, she probably would have forgotten anyway.  actually, I kind of figured it was more the Rory stuff that she forgot about Luke, than the sex.

[Guest]

 That was a different time. Either way she would have been at Friday night dinner during the balcony incident.   I agree her plan bailing was pretty terrible though. 

[ghoulina]

9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That's true.  but, that was the next morning, not while she was having sex.  And, with the whole business of Rory being rejected by her grandparetns, she probably would have forgotten anyway.  actually, I kind of figured it was more the Rory stuff that she forgot about Luke, than the sex.

What was the next morning? I thought the painting was supposed to happen Friday night. She planned to cut out early and go to Luke's. But the night ended up dragging on.  And she left him high and dry. She remembered in the morning and ran to apologize when he was opening up for the day, but by then she had already stood him up. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by ghoulina

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

I agree with a lot of the above. For me the "sleeping with every bridesmaid and lord knows who else" thing was less about whether Logan was technically cheating, which I agree he wasn't, and more a reflection of just how lacking he is in normal impulse control, healthy coping mechanisms (guzzling booze, jumping off cliffs and having random sex whenever he's feeling down), and that he's a sleazy, entitled jerk who uses women for his own selfish purposes and then has the audacity to demean them afterwards. I don't like how passive-aggressive Rory was in stating she was fine with what had happened while not truly forgiving him, but I don't blame Rory for not wanting to cozy up to him immediately after, because it really is kind of gross. I also think it's natural to wonder just how deeply in love with her he really was when he's readily hopping into bed with a bunch of women the second he thinks they've technically split up. I get that people like Logan can very easily separate sex from any sort of emotion, but I understand Rory feeling awful about it. (Not that Rory has ever cared at all about how her men treat other women: e.g., Dean with Lindsay, Jess with Shane, Logan with half the eligible females on the east coast, and so on. She's always focused only on the degree to which they adore HER, Rory Gilmore!)

 

1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

For me, it's not so much that Logan hooked up with/slept with his sisters friends, it's the low regard in which he held them and the nasty way he spoke about them after Rory found out. You're entitled to basic respect from your sexual partners, no matter how casual an arrangement it is. 

Both of you have explained it much better then I have. This is my problem with Logan sleeps with a bridal party. Very well said. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

It's all bad, like Katy said. Chris should have been the one to defend both Lorelai and Rory - at least as much as Richard did (before he lit into Lorelai, too). He just sat there and blamed Lorelai for the blow-up (for mentioning George Bush). 

Wait, it's been a while since I watched it. That was the same night, wasn't it? I can't remember how they ended up on the balcony. 

That bugged me most about that scene. Christopher says nothing and continues to sit there while his father insults Lorelai AND his daughter. How do you just sit there while someone anyone talks that way about your daughter? How do you not get up and go off on that person or tell them to shut up? I can't imagine a father just sitting there hearing that and not saying anything. I don't like the scene on the balcony either both should have gone to look for Rory. Also, it would have been nice to see Christopher say something to Rory. We had that great scene with Emily assuring Rory that she wasn't regretted and Lorelai also trying to reassure Rory and doesn't trash the Haydens as much as you'd think she would to her. But why couldn't we have a scene between Rory and Christopher too? 

[Guest]

 Another apparently unpopular opinion of mine is I don't think Logan was wrong for criticizing those girls. I think it had nothing to do with them sleeping with him and everything to do with them rubbing Rory's face in it. 

[Taryn74]

36 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

What was the next morning? I thought the painting was supposed to happen Friday night. She planned to cut out early and go to Luke's. But the night ended up dragging on.  And she left him high and dry. She remembered in the morning and ran to apologize when he was opening up for the day, but by then she had already stood him up. 

Yeah, you're right. I was thinking they were supposed to paint early Saturday morning, but they made plans for Friday night.

 

Quote

LUKE: Well we got the paint and the brushes and the tarps and all the other stuff the paint guy said we'd need, so I guess we're ready.

LORELAI: Yes we are.

LUKE: The only thing left to do is figure out when.

LORELAI: How about Friday?

LUKE: Friday?

LORELAI: Yeah, I mean, you don't want the stuff sitting around. I don't know if paint goes bad, but judging by the smell of it when it's fresh, rotten paint would be really gross.

LUKE: Don't you have dinner with your folks on Friday?

LORELAI: Well, yeah, but I can get out early for a special occasion.

LUKE: Friday it is.

LORELAI: Good.

Now, obviously Lorelai didn't go to dinner that Friday thinking things would go all to hell and she would end up on the balcony with Christopher (ugh) BUT she really should have told Luke that Christopher came to town unexpectedly and that moving their painting date to the next weekend would probably be better.  But, Lorelai's not the best at thinking through stuff like that LOL.

[elang4]

14 minutes ago, deaja said:

 Another apparently unpopular opinion of mine is I don't think Logan was wrong for criticizing those girls. I think it had nothing to do with them sleeping with him and everything to do with them rubbing Rory's face in it. 

Yeah but the girls didn't know that Logan and Rory were still together. They were reassuring her that it wasn't so I don't think it was exactly rubbing it in her face.

[tarotx]

Logan wasn't fond of Honor's friends even in s5. His opinion of them did get nastier in Bridesmaid revisited, before he just called them things like dizzy, but his disrespect of them wasn't because he had sex with them. He definitely shouldn't have had sex with girls he had no respect for but they were like the female Finn.  They didn't care that Logan was depressed and drunk even if they didn't know he had just broken up with his girlfriend. (But Honor knew so they knew). Logan was upset and tried to move on but he couldn't. Which he did tell Rory and it never crossed her mind what a boy like Logan would do to move on.  It shouldn't have been a shock that Logan had a couple of one-night hook ups Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks. Not only was he separate from Rory, she didn't call him after Honor called her. Logan would have been a mess and not know what to do about it. He had never been in that situation before. 

Logan and Rory had a huge fight at a bar, and she refused to let him take her home and then didn't call him for at least a couple weeks. When she had been staying at his place 3 days a week. It was a big change. And it all started with him coming over and she was hanging with her ex when she thought Logan was out of town.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

What was the next morning? I thought the painting was supposed to happen Friday night. She planned to cut out early and go to Luke's. But the night ended up dragging on.  And she left him high and dry. She remembered in the morning and ran to apologize when he was opening up for the day, but by then she had already stood him up. 

I guess I misremembered.  I thought they were supposed to do it early in the a.m.  But, that actually supports my theory, more, I think.  She should have called him, but I think Rory needed her more that night.

[Kohola3]

Quote

How do you just sit there while someone anyone talks that way about your daughter? 

That would imply you are a) a concerned parent, not an absent one and b) a mature adult instead of still under the thumb of his domineering daddy.  He was neither. Then top it by leaving his granddaughter in whatever state of mind (and Lorelai is equally guilty) and grabbing a quickie on the balcony.  They had no idea Emily was comforting her.  They just did what they always had. follow the "When In Doubt, Have Sex" philosophy.

[ghoulina]

14 hours ago, Katy M said:

guess I misremembered.  I thought they were supposed to do it early in the a.m.  But, that actually supports my theory, more, I think.  She should have called him, but I think Rory needed her more that night.

Except she wasn't attending to Rory that night. Not really. She was with Chris on the balcony. I think Luke would have totally understood. "Hey, dinner got crazy. Chris's parents are here and they blew up at me and insulted Rory. Can we postpone?" But she didn't even think of him. Totally forgot. And, the way the show presented, she forgot cause she was having sex on a balcony. 

[Katy M]

31 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Except she wasn't attending to Rory that night. Not really. She was with Chris on the balcony. I think Luke would have totally understood. "Hey, dinner got crazy. Chris's parents are here and they blew up at me and insulted Rory. Can we postpone?" But she didn't even think of him. Totally forgot. And, the way the show presented, she forgot cause she was having sex on a balcony. 

She wasn't with Chris on the balcony the whole night.  I doubt they were out there for more than an hour.

[AsYouWish]

I think the show took a pretty casual attitude toward sex in general. Not saying that's either good or bad, but that's just the impession I had. Come to think of it, it took a strangely casual attitude towards marriage. Luke and Nicole, Dean and Lindsay, Lorelai and Chris (they'd known each other for years, but the decision to marry was very impulsive), Max proposing to Lorelai very soon after they'd gotten together as a way to make them stop arguing, the way Miss Patty being married multiple times is a recurring joke, and I'm sure there are more examples too. Not placing a value judgment, just pointing it out because it felt relevant for reasons I've already forgotten! 

[ghoulina]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

She wasn't with Chris on the balcony the whole night.  I doubt they were out there for more than an hour.

But that's what we were SHOWN. We weren't shown the night being about her having to console Rory. We can infer whatever we want about how the night went. But all we saw was the blow up with the Haydens, the balcony sex, and Lorelai not realizing until the next morning that she ditched Luke. She could have used the fight as her excuse to leave early. Get away from all that, go blow off steam, have a beer, and paint with Luke. Instead she chose to sneak onto the balcony and blow off steam that way. 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, ghoulina said:

But that's what we were SHOWN. We weren't shown the night being about her having to console Rory. We can infer whatever we want about how the night went. But all we saw was the blow up with the Haydens, the balcony sex, and Lorelai not realizing until the next morning that she ditched Luke. She could have used the fight as her excuse to leave early. Get away from all that, go blow off steam, have a beer, and paint with Luke. Instead she chose to sneak onto the balcony and blow off steam that way. 

But, you're agreeing that the fight was the catalyst for the sex. So, it all came back to the fight.  That was why she forgot.  What she did instead is irrelevant.

[Kohola3]

Anything was a catalyst for sex with them.  And it turned her brain to mush, it would appear.