S03.E03: Tonnie's Minis

[Guest]

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[Primetimer]

How did Marcus Lemonis refrain from smacking egregious and defensive bullshitter Tonnie upside the head, and other not-quite-burning questions about the latest The Profit.

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[Amarsir]

I've seen build-your-own-cupcakes before. Sugar Rush in Red Bank, NJ comes to mind. (They seemed to do good business but If they watch this episode they could probably benefit from Marcus's layout suggestion.) Who among us is surprised that Marcus wants yet another "make it in front of you" place? But even more than the Greek franchise this seemed like a concept where he'd be better off starting from scratch. (Or copy Sugar Rush. They also do custom filling and have a list of suggested combinations for indecisive people.)

I didn't think Tonnie was that bad, compared to some of the past tyrants we've seen. Yeah he was being obtuse about a lot of stuff but no rage. Heck, Marcus seemed like the one with the shorter temper despite what I'm sure were edits around that.

That said, lots of issues to potentially walk away from. I'll bet you that within a year Tonnie will have started on another location, with or without Marcus' approval.

Last, I got the impression that store was closed for a while. There was no mention of renovation time, the wife seemed like she was tired of waiting and the sister like she hadn't seen Marcus in ages. And the mother didn't get paid back until opening, meaning Marcus held back on his check that long. That's not surprising, especially given the handshake deal nature. But it sheds some light on some deals that haven't gone as well in the past and when the check actually get deposited.

[attica]

Another fine example of "Nothing I do is working, but by gum, I refuse to change!"

 

If cupcakes could more conveniently be eaten one-handed, I think they'd have a longer life as a Thing. As is, you either by a bunch (in lieu of a cake), or you have to cope with frosting-covered fingers when you're done with your walking-around snack.  Hey, Tonnie and Marcus: free idea! Include a packet of wet wipes to every Lone Cupcake sale.

[nottopbravo]

When informed that the store would be closed during renovations, Tonnie asked about the staff and Marcus said something to the effect of, "I'll take care of them".

 

After deciding to have the cupcakes baked off site, with no in-house bakers needed, what happened to them?  I guess Marcus really did take care of them.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by nottopbravo

[rehoboth]

This one left me scratching my head.  Tonnie certainly wasn't the worst owner; he didn't seem shady but he certainly was a know-it-all (just ask his wife or his sister).  I thought for sure that the location would have been changed - certainly after the roof caved in. 

 

I don't see this as a good fit for Marcus but then again, I did not see the hair salon as a good fit either, and Marcus still loves it.  If the store doesn't work out, the cupcakes will probably find their way to Crumbs.

[tobeannounced]

Another fine example of "Nothing I do is working, but by gum, I refuse to change!"

 

If cupcakes could more conveniently be eaten one-handed, I think they'd have a longer life as a Thing. As is, you either by a bunch (in lieu of a cake), or you have to cope with frosting-covered fingers when you're done with your walking-around snack.  Hey, Tonnie and Marcus: free idea! Include a packet of wet wipes to every Lone Cupcake sale.

Amen, attica.  You can certainly see why some of these people are in danger of going under. 

[BusyOctober]

Why would Marcus invest in another cupcake biz? Didn't he just resurrect Crumbs? Maybe he plans to fold Tonnie's into that company? Just seems counterproductive to have 2 companies selling the same item.

Attica, someone showed me a trick years ago to avoid the frosting fingers...peel off paper wrapper, break the frosted top off at the natural seam above the paper wrapper. Flip it frosting side down on the other half and eat like a sandwich. Less mess and better frosting to cake ratio because you get frosting in every bite.

[tobeannounced]

What was the mini part?  Was that their nickname for a cupcake (mini cake)?  They didn't seem to specialize in those tiny cupcakes.

[Amarsir]

What was the mini part?  Was that their nickname for a cupcake (mini cake)?  They didn't seem to specialize in those tiny cupcakes.

https://youtu.be/3pV4vceOajQ?t=15s

 

I thought we saw a few, but agreed it was certainly not the focus.

 

 

Why would Marcus invest in another cupcake biz? Didn't he just resurrect Crumbs? Maybe he plans to fold Tonnie's into that company? Just seems counterproductive to have 2 companies selling the same item.

I don't get it either. If he was going to fold it in, 25% won't cut it. (I suspect that's part of the reason he bought out Key West Key Lime Pies, so he could merge with fewer issues.)  Maybe he thought the build-your-own angle was unique enough that he could take something from it? (And then when it wasn't, he was already in.)

[attica]

eat like a sandwich. Less mess and better frosting to cake ratio because you get frosting in every bite.

 

Splendid advice! As we know, cupcakes are really only Frosting Delivery Devices. Otherwise, muffins are the way to go. I wonder if there's a way to reshape a cupcake enough to put it on a stick?

[tobeannounced]

https://youtu.be/3pV4vceOajQ?t=15s

 

I thought we saw a few, but agreed it was certainly not the focus.

 

Amarsir, loved the link.  Thanks for the laugh.

[silverspoons]

This episode left me a bit confused as to why it was picked. I could see if Tonnie was  fabulous baker with a following and didn;t know how to market his product, or If he had a great location and shop but poor quality. He didn't seem to have anything special that popped out that would make him more investable then the cupcake girls shop in my town. His shop had a poor store front, the inside looked like it was just thrown together, no décor or theme, no catch. The cupcakes obviously weren't anything special if Marcus was willing to have that large bakery make them in bulk. I also wonder why Marcus didn't push for a beverage bar. Isn;t there a great profit margin in beverages. Even just bottled wanted or some of those bottled Izze drinks would be an easy (no real labor costs) money maker. Adding coffee and a seating area and wifi would be one time small costs.

I guess the show left me with the feeling Marcus was looking for a business that would fail for his portfolio or for the show. Our city has a video rental store that still rents NES and VHS tapes and I wondered how do they stay in business an then I found out it is a write off business.

[camom]

 

If cupcakes could more conveniently be eaten one-handed, I think they'd have a longer life as a Thing.

I'm all about avoiding the mess.  When I was doing birthday parties for my kids I would bake the cupcakes in flat bottomed ice cream cones; much easier to eat.  I also would scoop ice cream into cupcake papers ahead of time and stick them in the freezer.  Come cake and ice cream time each child would get a cake-cone and an ice cream serving.  Quick and easy.

 

I agree that the episode left me confused about why Marcus was interested.  Going into business which someone who borrowed from loan sharks would certainly send up red flags for me.

[caligirl50]

The other thing that I think would be great for a cupcake company is the frosting on the inside.  I am not a big frosting fan as I prefer the cake really BUT if you have to have frosting, why not offer it on the inside which is less messy?

[silverspoons]

The other thing that I think would be great for a cupcake company is the frosting on the inside.  I am not a big frosting fan as I prefer the cake really BUT if you have to have frosting, why not offer it on the inside which is less messy?

Our best source for baked goods is a local run gourmet grocery store. My daughter's 30 minutes music lesson is very close by, and of course not enough time for me to drive home and back so I spend my time in the bakery section :). They have taken many simple items and have so many options and if you don't see an option they will find a way. The cupcakes have many options but one is a container of 6 with frosting on the side. You can also have toppings on the side. There are also cupcake bites which a bit more dense with frosting on the side (kind of like dipping sauce). I'm not a big sweet frosting fan but once I tried the peanut butter frosting on a double fudge cupcake, I was hooked. I admit to be frugal, but if I'm making a special cake I buy this bakery's frosting (they have over 20 kinds) for $5 a container.

 

That is another reason I'm still surprised Marcus invested, with nothing special about the cupcakes, it is not like they will have some national appeal or end up being mass marketed. A co-worker once paid a fortune for those DC cupcakes to be shipped. I didn't think they were anything special (maybe 4 days old and frozen makes a difference but all the hype got her to buy them. I don't see anyone paying big bucks to mail order Tonnie's cupcakes.

[citychic]

When informed that the store would be closed during renovations, Tonnie asked about the staff and Marcus said something to the effect of, "I'll take care of them".

 

After deciding to have the cupcakes baked off site, with no in-house bakers needed, what happened to them?  I guess Marcus really did take care of them.  

You answered the question I came here to ask. When they went to the off site bakery Marcus wants to use he put up profit numbers because he would no longer be baking in house, but he didn't mention the expense of paying the off site bakers. You pointed out they're no longer there so their salaries probably covered that expense.

[Lola16]

The commercial bakery will function as a copacker for Tonnie's so it will be Tonnie's recipes made off site.  Yes, it will be cheaper but not fresher.   I don't know if there's anything about Tonnie's recipes that make it so special.  Build your own cupcake = cute.  Build your own cupcake from pre-made ingredients = meh.

[nobodyyoucare]

Watching the episode I could see why Marcus wanted in.

 

1.Build your own cupcake. Retrofitting Crumbs to do this would cost a lot and its often better to have a new chain do a different take on a product. If you have a hain of restaurants that are regular fast food you may find it better to launch a new chain of restaurants that have a new serving concept.

 

2. Location. Up and coming means the area is exploding in growth and rates of spaces will go up drastically so its often better to get a place before that happens.

 

3, Race. Marcus was looking for a black investment and needed such a person to help get into an Urban area. Harlem which is becoming gentrified is still considered black and hence you need a black person with you in order to get in with the businesses and people there. 

[Neurochick]

Watching the episode I could see why Marcus wanted in.

 

1.Build your own cupcake. Retrofitting Crumbs to do this would cost a lot and its often better to have a new chain do a different take on a product. If you have a hain of restaurants that are regular fast food you may find it better to launch a new chain of restaurants that have a new serving concept.

 

2. Location. Up and coming means the area is exploding in growth and rates of spaces will go up drastically so its often better to get a place before that happens.

 

3, Race. Marcus was looking for a black investment and needed such a person to help get into an Urban area. Harlem which is becoming gentrified is still considered black and hence you need a black person with you in order to get in with the businesses and people there. 

 

I thought the area was Washington Heights, not Harlem, Washington Heights is mostly Dominican.  But you're right about the neighborhood being up and coming.  I used to work in Washington Heights and that area has changed a lot in the past ten years.  

Edited June 1, 2015 by Neurochick

[nobodyyoucare]

I thought the area was Washington Heights, not Harlem, Washington Heights is mostly Dominican.  But you're right about the neighborhood being up and coming.  I used to work in Washington Heights and that area has changed a lot in the past ten years.  

Marcus and Tonnie later went to Harlem to get a famous restaurant there to stock one of Tonnie's cake recipes which was Sweet Potato. 

[Neurochick]

Marcus and Tonnie later went to Harlem to get a famous restaurant there to stock one of Tonnie's cake recipes which was Sweet Potato. 

 

I must have missed that part; that makes sense.  Marcus is no dummy, he can see what's going on in Harlem.  

[sugarbaker design]

I thought the shop was in Inwood.

[nobodyyoucare]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/nyregion/06harlem.html?_r=0I must have missed that part; that makes sense.  Marcus is no dummy, he can see what's going on in Harlem.  

For those that don't know. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/nyregion/06harlem.html?_r=0

 

http://columbiaspectator.com/2012/12/10/west-harlem-identity-crisis

Edited June 1, 2015 by nobodyyoucare

[nobodyyoucare]

Tonnie had a store in Harlem.  https://www.facebook.com/tonniesminis 

[attica]

I thought the shop was in Inwood.

 

Inwood and Washington Heights abut each other; at that address on Broadway, TM's is a wee bit south of what I consider Inwood. But that's quibble-able.

[nobodyyoucare]

You live nearby? If so do you consider going for those that cannot travel there and give a unbiased report?

[Lola16]

The commercial bakery will function as a copacker for Tonnie's so it will be Tonnie's recipes made off site. 

 

To this day, Tonnie is the ONLY one who prepares the carrot cakes so that the recipe remains a secret.

Interesting.  According to their website, they didn't give the recipe to the copacker.

 

Tonnie's retail location has changed a few times from West Village to Harlem (123rd & Lenox) to Inwood (B'way & Thayer).  No mention of the NJ facility so perhaps he did nix that.

[nobodyyoucare]

Interesting.  According to their website, they didn't give the recipe to the copacker.

 

Tonnie's retail location has changed a few times from West Village to Harlem (123rd & Lenox) to Inwood (B'way & Thayer).  No mention of the NJ facility so perhaps he did nix that.

I believe he had several stores opening and running. If you go to facebook he admits he made a lot of unwise business decisions. Its always important to know the numbers so on a bad day you break even. Nj facility Marcus had issue because it would be losing money even if it met it's sales goal each day. 

[attica]

You live nearby?

 

Not anymore. Spent a lot of time there in my misspent youth.

[suedehead]

 

I'm all about avoiding the mess.  When I was doing birthday parties for my kids I would bake the cupcakes in flat bottomed ice cream cones; much easier to eat.  I also would scoop ice cream into cupcake papers ahead of time and stick them in the freezer.  Come cake and ice cream time each child would get a cake-cone and an ice cream serving.  Quick and easy.

 

Glory be!!!! (as my grandma would say)

 

I offered to help a friend with his son's birthday party Saturday. Everyone likes my homemade ice cream so I'm bringing that. I'm going to volunteer to also bring cupcakes, steal your ideas, and look like fuckin rock star. Thanks  

[camom]

You're welcome, suedehead!  Have fun at the party.

[selhars]

Maybe it's me and i'm not a cupcake person....COOKIES YES!, brownies second...cupcakes, not so much...ANYway...

 

I don't get Marcus's interest in this Tonnie's Minis....EXCEPT, and maybe that's a good enough reason for him, he just wants something to ride for a few hot years.

I just dont' see cupcakes as "all that"...a full-fledged bakery with OTHER items. sure. But many Americans just arent' into sweets as they once were. (Or maybe I'm projecting)

 

Build your own cupcake does nothing for me.

Edited June 10, 2015 by selhars

[KHenry14]

selhars, i'm with you. I don't get why cupcakes are such a big deal. I've been to a couple of stores that were featured on Cupcake Wars, and their product was fine. But I'm not going to regularly spend $6 on any cupcake, no matter how good it is. So I question the long term viability of these stores. 

[BusyOctober]

I think the whole cupcake thing is over (& dumb too).  5 years ago a cupcake bakery opened in my town and only lasted 23 months.  The storefront was empty for a while then another cupcake place opened...and closed in less than a year.  I tried both places and never went back. I remember the prices were too high and the cupcakes were not very good. If someone wants to charge me $4-$6 for a cupcake it should be the best friggin cupcake I ever had. 

[Amarsir]

I suspect cupcakes will be a cyclical business, comparable to Frozen Yogurt (but moreso).  You may remember FroYo hit big in the late 80s, faded out about a decade later, then had a resurgence via Pinkberry about 10 years ago. Currently it's on the way down again. Cupcakes are on the downslope of their first wave. They need a new idea (and maybe some time) to make a comeback.  I could see how "make your own" might be an idea worth trying. But then again maybe not.

[Showthyme]

I wonder if Marcus is still involved. This business is not listed on his website.